Author Topic: Beware the scorned NM  (Read 408 times)

lighter

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Re: Beware the scorned NM
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2018, 05:31:59 PM »
I'm sorry you're struggling, Ales. 

I'm sorry your mother sounds like she won't go back to this T, but YOU liked this T.  You might keep the next appointment, just for yourself, even if your mother doesn't go, and she might show. 

About your sense the T isn't validating your mother's position, and that's why she won't likely go back.... I think you're right about that. 

I'm not surprised.  Are you? 

Perhaps this T is a good person to continue seeing?  He's seen both you and your mother.  He seems fair, and competent.  You clicked with him.

((Ales))  Go ahead and cry.  It's OK.

Lighter

Ales2

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Re: Beware the scorned NM
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2018, 06:57:06 PM »
Thank you so much Lighter for your comments and kindness.

The struggle is real, but sadly, after I took this last job, I felt so much better about the direction my life was going and now this setback. Back to CrazyTown!

No, I'm not surprised. She wanted him to berate me and solve it in one session. That is not how therapy works. I can sense what he was doing. He wanted us to work on communication and empathy techniques to get the relationship on track to solve the bigger problems. I was not at war with her lately, she brought it back after she read comments I posted on the internet, hence the question about my FB post.

I would love to continue seeing him and hope she follows through. Without her involvement though, I'd have to ask him what he would suggest to overcome these problems on my own.

As for crying, oddly, it felt really good.

Have a wonderful holiday everyone!

Ales2

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Re: Beware the scorned NM
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2018, 08:36:20 PM »
One little side note.

In our first meeting I mentioned the movie I Tonya, and I asked him "What kind of mother is that? The mother who goes out of her way to make a financial sacrifice for Tonya to take skating lessons, then berates and belittles her for not being as good as the other girls?" Similar to what my Mother did, put me in private school and then tell me I was not as smart or as pretty as the other girls? Who does that? Why put me there?

With this new T, I wanted to describe more about what she does specifically and how it feels to me rather than label her an N. I wanted to start with the therapist with a clean slate and not make assumptions from other Ts.  I wanted to see if he would mention it or come to that conclusion on his own.

Meanwhile:




Ales2

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Re: Beware the scorned NM
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2018, 07:16:35 PM »
So, on Tuesday, after the session with my Mom, here is the note I emailed the therapist.

Thank you again for yesterday. I found it productive and calming! I know your time is valuable so I want to keep this brief and to the point. Here are some thoughts and backstory that might be helpful for future sessions/calls.

 

First, I think she will discontinue therapy before 3 sessions, not because of the drive or the expense (although she is incredibly frugal), but because she wants a quick fix, fears confrontations and generally avoids doing the work.

 

I think she was hoping you would validate her claims of being taken advantage of and feeling manipulated. She likes/needs/craves validation and currently has no one that supports her frustrations about her relationship with me. She probably wanted you to confront me and require me to be responsible and stay employed. If she knows you will “sort this out” and “get to the bottom of it”, and “not let delinquent adult children manipulate their parents” and that you require responsibility and accountability from me, she would feel respected/validated and it would help enormously in future sessions/calls. 

 

Since she needs validation, you might also mention her good qualities.

    Mom was an excellent cook, my favorites are her pumpkin bread, plum tarte, chicken in wine sauce and spinach lasagna.
    She has excellent taste in classical music, art, European culture and interior design. She was a talented piano player.
    She traveled extensively when she was young and came to America from Germany in the early 1960s to visit her sister (who arrived in LA around 1955-56) and eventually met and married my Dad at a Church in Hollywood.  (I want to say here that Dad was an excellent father, and he was, but in the context of the current conflict, that seems like an insult to her as a Mother and she is jealous of the relationship/love I had for him. Her Dad died when she was 14 and the family was broke afterwards, my Dad died when I was 32 and left Mom financially sound.)
    She can be incredibly kind, generous and outgoing.
    She was very glamorous in her earlier years. She dressed well and was very well liked in my school and our neighborhood. My parents had some very close friends that gave us new experiences, sailing, horseback, riding, flying, a love of Nature and Astronomy and so on.
    I had private school, ballet lessons, ice skating, tennis, swimming, track, braces, acne treatments and tutors for math.
    In many ways, we were incredibly fortunate and lucky.

They were very good parents, mention that, she will appreciate that.

 

Lastly, I confided that I felt dysfunctional and lost. Please don’t be overly concerned with that. I’m not depressed, just discouraged, I am actively searching for full time work, still functioning, capable and responsible. I know it’s imperative that I regain my independence, not be a financial burden to her and have no plans for any future financial entanglements with her. I was fully independent and successful before and I will succeed again from my own efforts.

 

I want to continue with you and can do anyday/anytime/any location until my work situation changes. She probably prefers Afternoons, because her joints are stiff in the morning from Rheumatoid Arthritis and getting out of the house early is difficult. If you decide to do phone calls with her, she has old landline phones and sometimes the batteries run out mid-call, sometimes it’s an excuse to terminate calls when she doesn’t like what she hears. 

Ales2

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Re: Beware the scorned NM
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2018, 07:21:04 PM »
Let me translate that note...and tell me if you see the same thing. It occurred to me just this morning.

1. She will terminate therapy because of issues with confrontation and personal responsibility.
2. Validate her point of view
3. Hold me accountable and responsible
4. Praise her as a wonderful mother
5. But, don't worry about me!
6. I will be there willing to participate
7. She will find excuses to not participate.

This is the letter of DONM who will overcompensate, validate her mother, cooperate and never seek help for her own problems.

Well, I feel like an idiot, but if he is half the therapist, I think he is, this problem will be quite obvious to him.  :(

And, as it turns out, she booked another appointment for Monday and then threw her back out moving something in the house and does not plan to attend the session.

More predictable nonsense!



lighter

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Re: Beware the scorned NM
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2018, 09:19:02 PM »
I'm sorry your mom canceled the appointment, Ales.  Maybe you could suggest a phone appointment?

Lighter

Twoapenny

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Re: Beware the scorned NM
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2018, 03:05:31 AM »
Let me translate that note...and tell me if you see the same thing. It occurred to me just this morning.

1. She will terminate therapy because of issues with confrontation and personal responsibility.
2. Validate her point of view
3. Hold me accountable and responsible
4. Praise her as a wonderful mother
5. But, don't worry about me!
6. I will be there willing to participate
7. She will find excuses to not participate.

This is the letter of DONM who will overcompensate, validate her mother, cooperate and never seek help for her own problems.

Well, I feel like an idiot, but if he is half the therapist, I think he is, this problem will be quite obvious to him.  :(

And, as it turns out, she booked another appointment for Monday and then threw her back out moving something in the house and does not plan to attend the session.

More predictable nonsense!

Ales, is it possible for you to contact the T again with what you just wrote above and tell him you realise you need help and would it be possible for you to see him alone to work on yourself, without your mother in the picture?  It seems likely to be very difficult to work on yourself when you attend therapy with your mum?  But perhaps you could make better progress alone?  I hope you're able to find a way forward that works for you and no-one else xx

Ales2

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Re: Beware the scorned NM
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2018, 09:06:26 PM »
Well, so much for the therapist understanding me.

Basically, I am being marginalized to "do something different" instead of pursuing my current career.

So much for that....

Twoapenny

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Re: Beware the scorned NM
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2018, 04:11:55 AM »
Well, so much for the therapist understanding me.

Basically, I am being marginalized to "do something different" instead of pursuing my current career.

So much for that....

Ales, one of the most important lessons I was taught by a therapist was not to need or try to find validation from other people but instead, to work on understanding myself and what I wanted out of life and to set my own benchmark of 'success'.  It has been a very important - I'd go so far as to say life changing - piece of advice for me and is something I still work on, although I find it hard.

I don't know what the work situation is or what the problems are (perhaps you could write more on here to see if any of us can offer anything useful?) but it does seem that the people around you aren't telling you what you need to hear - maybe it's a sign to listen to yourself and not to others (or at least not to others who predict doom and gloom and can't offer anything constructive)? xx

Hopalong

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Re: Beware the scorned NM
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2018, 08:30:33 AM »
Ales,
I wonder if the financial entanglement with your mother is pushing things to a breaking point. Im not saying this is your situation, because it sounds as though your mother is comfortably off, but I recall when my D was into her 30s and just had bottomless need for money. It seemed impossible for her to perceive the stress I felt about it because I (or her grandmother) had continually bailed her out.

I wish there were some way for family resources, if there are some designated for you, to be released to you.

Without that independence, it might be difficult for her, or even a T, to see the wisdom of your career efforts. It's terribly painful when other don't support our dreams. I don't blame you for feeling that extremely keenly, I would too in your shoes. But perhaps the financial dependency is a major factor.

It annoys that the therapist is advising you to change career expectations rather than gently guiding you through asking yourself the same questions until you find your own answer, even if it includes some form of compromise. But if he was actually just asking it as a question, and you otherwise felt some understanding from him, perhaps it'd be worth your time not to discontinue yet?

Sometimes a dialogue that lands in our most uncomfortable places is a sign that perhaps we do need to sit with the uncomfortable questions that are posed. It does not mean you need to accept anyone's answers but your own, but if it happens repeatedly along a similar theme, it might mean that you could benefit from a fresh evaluation of your circumstances and your plan.

I'm sorry if I'm added cold water because I know how sensitive the subject is. And I wholeheartedly hope that you'll find a path back into the work you'd rather be doing. But if the way isn't clear and money access is a chronic sore, it's possible that you're walking the boulevard of broken dreams. I'd hate to see that happen or if this dream just won't pan out, that you give up on finding a new one that could also satisfy most of your creative yearnings.

No job I've ever had has fulfilled all of mine, but some have enabled me to stand on my feet and survive.

with love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Ales2

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Re: Beware the scorned NM
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2018, 09:07:47 AM »
My last job ended in March. I was an Associate Producer of the local TV show and produced 16 episodes.  In April, I produced a Power Point Presentation for the web and have a business partner for that. The Course could yield as much as 5k per month for both of us with the appropriate online and direct marketing. In May, I took on a business partner for a new Tv show, with a pitch deck and business plan just like the one I recently completed. It requires Investors to produce the show.

Instead of offering encouragement, help or suggestions of where I can make these ventures successful or profitable, I am being pushed to look for Executive Assistant and Office Manager work.

This is the story of my life, no matter what I pursue, I'm consistently pushed and marginalized into lesser positions.

This is the end of the line for this therapist and my mother. Neither care or listen enough for me to speak and explain myself.

Ales2

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Re: Beware the scorned NM
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2018, 09:11:20 AM »
Financial dependency is not the problem. When I was successful and independent the words I hear is:


they made a mistake
it won't last
you didn't earn it/deserve it
thats cushy considering your experience
....and so on.

Marginalization has nothing to do with financial dependence/independence. Its ignoring people's accomplishments and belittling them or undervaluing their contribution.



lighter

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Re: Beware the scorned NM
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2018, 03:38:45 PM »
I'm sorry the T didn't work out, Ales.  For a second there it seemed like you found someone who understands you. 

From here, I took away this....

the T doesn't understand what you do, or what it means to you.   I felt he was asking you to state, and defend your position so you both understood it better.  Since you were there, you have a better idea about what he meant. 

Your mother likely colored his view on your career choice. Maybe he didn't understand clearly what you yourself said about it.  He's likely very concerned about you, and as I said... doesn't understand well enough to make suggestions like he's making.   Not being understood can be different than being judged, and marginalized?

Not sure, but I'm sorry you're so disappointed.  You seemed to get on very well with that T.  I can't imagine, for a moment, his message that you were overpaid, and out of your depth... as your mother suggested over the years, is what he intended you to hear. 

Lighter

 

Hopalong

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Re: Beware the scorned NM
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2018, 04:25:00 PM »
And I have zero doubts, zero, about your creativity and your competence, Ales.
I have an outsider's view of Hollywood which is probably very inadequate to truly understand the market there anyway. I just read things about the vast numbers of talented people competing for jobs, but maybe it's much like the rest of the country. I really don't have enough knowledge to hold forth about it.

When my career was stalling I hit real depression, accepting the shock of "downward mobility" in my 50s was really hard. Forgive me if for projecting some of my own rough memories into your situation. You're in a unique field in a unique place.

You sound as though you know your stuff, you know where to look, and you should be cheered on rather than deflated!

CHEERING!hugs,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Ales2

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Re: Beware the scorned NM
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2018, 09:28:17 AM »
Thanks for the comments.

Yesterday, I had an angry conversation between my Mom and me, therapist present in my head on my 3 mile walk. It went like this ...

You never....blah blah blah...
What the problem? Same thing for the last 40 years...
Mom says she still does not know what that is...
I've been complaining about it for the last 40 years...

Therapist stops the conversation. Tries to redirect it...

Then I have this epiphany. I could explain it one more time to a woman who is both deaf and incapable of understanding me. Nothing would be solved.  I've come to the conclusion that I have been trying to get along with a person for 50 years of my life now....and if nothing has gotten through to her by now, its too late. Ive wasted so much of my life on this relationship and its hurt me in so many ways, its just not meant to be. No therapist if going to fix this. 

I feel liberated. Nothing I do with her will ever matter. The only thing I need to now is move my life forward. And, I don't think there is room for her in that new life.

Their actions of pushing me into an Executive Assistant job when my last job was as a Producer, clearly tells me they are not going to support my growth and financial independence.

I agreed to three sessions. I agreed to take other work and pursue other work avenues. After the next session, I will tell them we are done, I agreed to what they wanted and we can end our sessions. No need to go back. I will exit peacefully and gratefully, there is no need to be angry about it.

One note - I think the T wanted me to take another job immediately, so my mother can feel better and not worry about me and move on to her assisted living or selling her house or whatever nonsenses she's currently claiming. I think when we are more "stabilized" (his word, not mine) that he would want to work on the relationship. Not really. I told them if I was not going to continue to working in TV production there is no reason for me to stay in LA. If I am going to work outside the business, I will move to Florida. They have a better cost of living.