Author Topic: Hello - need support  (Read 724 times)

Twoapenny

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Re: Hello - need support
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2018, 01:31:52 AM »
It's good to see you again, Ernie :)

Your question isn't dumb at all :)  The way you're already using the forum is perfect - you open a thread, you write down whatever's in your head, people respond (usually with understanding, sometimes suggestions, sometimes just 'yep, me too' - you're heard).  And you can use it in other ways as well, depending on what you find works, helps or what you need at different times.

Some people, for example, read posts and get a lot from them but aren't keen on posting much themselves - privacy reasons, feeling uncomfortable with writing, struggling to get the words out or just finding reading more helpful than writing.  That works perfectly for them and you might find it helps you at times as well (as sometimes someone else will post something that's also effecting you but maybe you didn't feel ready to talk about it, for example).  Some people post about specific problems when they come up, sometimes it's to post good news.  Some people (like me!) check in here pretty much daily and write about anything and everything, sometimes good, sometimes bad, sometimes nothing in particular, I just like to write it down :)  For me, the board has become the healthy, nurturing family that I lack in the real world and I cannot tell you how grateful I am to have it in my life.  Most days, I make myself a cup of tea and then I sit down and 'chat' to my mum and dad and my brothers and sisters.  It's wonderful, and hopefully as time goes on you will feel settled here, you can kick your shoes off, put your feet up and put out there as much or as little as you want and you will find it soothes your heart a little and calms your mind :)  It's a nice state for anyone to be in :)

All the other things you speak of - the numbness, the difficulty identifying (or even having) feelings, the problems with finding help, whether 'medical' or more alternative/spiritual (like meditation, for example), the disbelief at everyone around you ("wake up, you crazy people - are you all dead??!"), the feeling that you're expected to forgive, rude people in queues - all of that is stuff I have written about my own situation at times or have experienced throughout my adult life.  I've been actively working on myself for over twenty years now and I am still very much a work in progress and accept/understand now that I will always work on myself - I want to understand myself better and grow and develop as a person.  I think it's important to recognise that when you are working through feelings that have been buried for decades - fear, anger, hurt, rejection and so on - it's very difficult to do anything other than hold on.  It's hard to cope with that and also manage work, relationships, sort your money out, keep on top of your house, etc, never mind adding mediation, zen patience and anything else to the list.  What I've learnt is that things come off like layers - so when you mention forgiveness working for a while but then feeling angry again, that sounds to me like you got through one layer and then found another one to work through.  It's very common, very tiring and very frustrating.  Perhaps think of it like a house that you think just needs a coat of paint - but as time goes on you discover the floorboards are rotten and the wiring's shot and the pipes need replacing and the roof tiles are missing and so on and so on.  More and more work, more and more jobs.  And it can be very overwhelming.  I think during those times focus on looking after yourself - eat well, rest, exercise and be the kind parent you didn't have.  Talk to yourself nicely (you can feel like a right wally at first but it does help :) ).  Give yourself the time, acceptance, nurturing that you didn't get when you were little.  And if you feel more rage, anger, fear, whatever it might be coming up, well, that's okay.  It's all working it's way out of your system and it doesn't feel nice - but if it sits inside it will do even more harm so try to let it out as best you can :)

Some of the traditional ways of helping don't help everybody, but there is usually something that can help.  You might find it through writing, painting, doing triathlons, building a garden, volunteering with stray dogs, redecorating your house continually.  Perhaps it might help you at the minute to veer away from things that are typically thought of as 'help' and try out hobbies or interests and see if getting lost in one of those things helps you to work through all the feelings that are coming up?  There's a delightfully eccentric Englishman called Tom Hart Dyke, who's an avid gardener and orchid expert (he created a 'world garden' at the Stately Home his family have lived in for generations) and he was searching for orchids in the Darien Gap when he and a friend were kidnapped and held hostage for many months.  In order to cope, he grew a garden in captivity in the jungle and he's written a book about his experiences there and how growing the garden, and planning his world garden, kept him going during his months of confinement.   It just struck me as an example of coping with a difficult situation without therapy or any of the 'usual' ways of managing.  If you wanted to read more about him (just in case it gives you some ideas) he has a website:

http://www.tomhartdyke.co.uk/

I think he's written two books now, one about the kidnapping and one about building the garden once he was back at home.  It's open to the public and I'm hoping to get up there and visit one day :)  Anyway, it might help a little to look for ways of helping that wouldn't usually be thought of as therapy or support, I think there's a way for everyone, it just takes a while to find it sometimes :)

Hopalong

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Re: Hello - need support
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2018, 09:39:10 AM »
Here's a documentary about him, Tupp and Ernie...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhP2CbdQq-I

It's movie night!
(I strongly recommend the documentary Ales pointed us to, as well...)

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

erniec

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Re: Hello - need support
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2018, 02:37:33 PM »
thanks ladies, I really appreciate all of your responses.  I still have a really hard time believing there are people who want to listen to me about this stuff as I've spent my whole life being shut down by others who didn't care enough to want to hear about what was bothering me.  That's the emotions behind it, right there.  Ive gotten to the point where I don't feel like I should have to apologize for feeling the way I do, in the past I was shamed really badly by others for feeling these ways so I stopped talking. All that just backed up the pipes and it's working loose so I appreciate the understanding. 

to sea storm I really appreciate how softly you chose your words but I disagree with a number of things you said.  You made some assumptions about me and my motivations that are wrong, and I'm not even going to validate those by getting into which ones.  If you are uncomfortable with my anger, just know wherever it comes from, its not or ever will be directed at you or anyone on here.  It's clear you were uncomfortable with what I wrote.  Next time, just go on to one that resonates with you better.  People have not been attentive to what I say my whole life, I think I can handle if it happens a few more times. 

I will get into the responsibility subject though because I have quite a bit to say about that.  I look around at our world today and I don't see much responsibility being taken by anyone.  In fact, I see most people around me doing just about everything they can to avoid taking responsibility for anything.  The past 7 years, one the most tragic things I've learned about this world is that I'm practically the ONLY one that I know of taking any responsibility for ANYTHING they do.  It's shocking to me the degree to which people in my life avoid responsibility.  And Im not talking about showing up at work or cooking/caring for your family, I'm talking about treating other people with respect, kindness, caring and consideration.  The first sign I know someone doesn't give a shit about me is they take no responsibility for treating me in shabby ways when confronted on it.  That so many people just don't care that they act in such ways to others, not just me, really bothers me, and its a completely legitimate feeling to have on this profoundly messed up planet.  To me, what I've also learned is that throwing the responsibility trope to others especially when they are in pain is a cop out.  I accept responsibility for myself and my life success or failure every single day I get out of bed and try however falteringly to move on with my life whether others are around to judge my intentions or not.  To toss that one around in my presence given what I've been through is very disrespectful, and its like jabbing the knife of my initial injury and twisting.  Not helpful.  I'm here and struggling precisely because OTHERS so profoundly have failed to take responsibility for the pain they caused in my life so I have to accept and sort out the confounded mess THEY created in my life, all while being told too many times (thanks psychology profession!!!) that I'm a failure in some way because I'm struggling with it.  I thought these people want us to come forward with our issues?  From most of the ones I've met, apparently not, what I get is "Oh, so and so went thru the same thing and THEY didn't have such a hard time...you just need to take responsibility for yourself!!"....whatever the hell that means.  And what a disingenuous load of bullshit it is.  If people who had hurt me had apologized or taken responsibility for their deeds I'd have a lot easier time moving on, trust me, and I would think a lot more of them, but they didn't, so they give me no choice but for me to write them off as inhuman scuzzbags.  It's not unreasonable for me to expect accountability from others.  But what else are they, when confronted with their own sin, and they still deny it?  There's one thing people like this aren't and that's good people - people like this are not good, there is something profoundly wrong with them, and my terms, however derisive of them, are completely fair personifications to me of those exact people I am talking about.  When people push the responsibility trope it tells me they'd prefer to reduce my life to a trite truism and really aren't interested in learning the details of why I'm saying what I'm saying, and if that's the case, I rather them not say anything.  Skeptikal, Twopenny and hopalong didn't toss that one at me because the way they wrote what they wrote, they get what I'm saying and are really trying to help.  So, thank you ladies, and on to other issues.

I would reconsider therapy but I'm reluctant to do for lack of $$ and the anticipatory discouragement of having to kiss more frogs and deal with that.  I did get help thru EMDR a bit but right now and for the foreseeable future I'm just not interested in continuing to look for someone or something that may or may not exist.  It's not much different than those who drop out of the dating race because they are discouraged.  I get it completely,  someone said they had become a bit of hermit after their husband died and I totally understand that.  You've been with one person for so long and dating is stressful for men and women both as both are worried, sometimes legitimately, of being played / manipulated.

Religion / Spirituality I don't really think is an option for me either right now I'd consider due a number of reasons I really won't expound much on.  Buddhism I find feeds perfectly into the narcissism of the modern age - obsession with self - and I find the wrong path to be on...I think our western society is being led down the garden path with this obsession with using concepts from eastern mysticism to make people not necessarily better people  but better tools for corporations to make money off of - the entire SHAM (self help and actualization) and how successful it is selling the same trite concepts to people over and over and over is a testament to this.  I don't think these institutions necessarily want to help people, I think cynical ones just want to make money, and the more altruistic voices (they re there for sure) want them to make more money for their lives as they think thats what the main purpose of our existence is.  I resonate more with Christianity especially the social gospel and the person of Jesus who was, if he actually existed, one of the most unique and useful people in the history of this planet.  I completely understand what the bible talks about when it says the world hates Christ, I totally get it, the world mouths some platitudes of acknowledgement of what he said but underneath there is a real distinct hatred of him and everything he stood for.  He challenged power bases for the right reasons and people in power, as I learned directly myself, hate those to who do this and they actively seek the destruction of people who challenge their (false and abusive) authority.  I know this for a fact as I experienced it.  To some degree, Im still puzzled by the invective directed towards me by those in positions of power, as to me, all I did was stand up for myself, but in reading about Christ's persecution I have a better psychological perspective on why I was treated this way - because this is how humans treat those who challenge the social constructs of authority.  But I find so many flaws and unanswered questions within the faith I just can't accept it for what it is other than a morality play on what happens to those who are seen as a threat to the people in power as well as the life story of a man who had one of the biggest sets of balls in the history of the world, and that maybe the person of Christ as a good model for our behavior today. I did Christian Science for a few years but now I find that "faith" to be self serving and empty and I'm embarrassed to have had any association with it because of how shallow it is.  There was a rash of youth suicides in that "church" when I went there that I wish now I had tipped off some investigative journalist about...like what the hell is going on behind the scenes here.   I was involved in atheism for awhile but found those people intolerable because they are all convinced of their own intellectual superiority and are even more full of themselves than some of the evangelical ministers they love to slag. Plus they do absolutely nothing to make the world a better place....and so many of them spend their free time going to debates on the existence/non existence of god....I found this behavior completely absurd, and it's very common.  I think atheism is something most people do at some point in their lives but very few actually stick with it because they'd end up turning into Sheldon Cooper if they did. 

I've thought about volunteering at a homeless shelter or soup kitchen somewhere as I sincerely do care about others, its just that it may come across as I don't because I tend to call a spade a spade quite a bit ands can be quite harsh in my words.  My harshness when directed is 100% sincere, if I say it, I believe I have a duty to share it with that person whether they want to hear it or not because I believe its the truth.  The bit about judgmentalism is true, yeah I totally have and was, but it's not always a bad thing - even the bible tells us to judge, to use our minds to discern things, it admonishes people against against thoughtless hypocritical judgment like the the story about the prostitute who people wanted to stone that everyone knows. 

I've thought more about forgiveness and I've come to a bit of a conclusion about that...I think its more about standards of behavior for me - what's acceptable and what isn't.  If it's not, then sayonara.  If it is, then come on in.  I've also learned that I'm infinitely disposable to others so maybe I need to treat people who do wrong by me in the same disposable way. 

The journal thing I did for awhile but found counterproductive as I would just ruminate on whatever I was writing and it became like meditation, a total disaster that did more harm than good....  I really find more and more distraction really helps.  Whether that's dealing with anything kind of remains to be seen. 

I'll pull something out of this, thanks for your reflective listening, that means more to me than anything. 

 I think this is the end of the thread as I have a question about family members and manipulating others (me) using money and how to handle that, and I'll pose that for the group.  thanks!!

Hopalong

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Re: Hello - need support
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2018, 03:30:56 PM »
Hey Ernie,
I am sorry that this will disappoint you. But I'm giving you my honest best in saying it. (While I also see and acknowledge your honesty.)

I believe you are completely submerged and trapped in judging others, and that your obsession with your criticisms (most being apt) of everyone around you is blinding you to any other way of being within human community. And another way is what you desperately need.

I agreed with nearly everything you said about many others' failures to be responsible, brave, or fair. At the same time, you are displaying a stingy soul.

Compassion isn't just a concept. It's a choice. Empathy is the emotion that teaches us how to, eventually, be capable of making that choice.

Of course you must have empathy for yourself. But in self pity, you have allowed your empathy to become trapped inside you, sealed in layer after layer of resentment. It's starving for the oxygen that gets in when you release a bit to those you judge. You must let it escape.

Start small. You can do this.

Hops
PS--I know a LOT about judgment and self-pity because I majored in judgment and got a graduate degree in self-pity. It has taken me a very long time to climb most of the way out of these particular pits.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 03:44:32 PM by Hopalong »
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

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Re: Hello - need support
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2018, 03:55:19 PM »
Well, before you completely move on to other topics...

I get the anger at the fact that you can't change these people. They are who they are - and they're going to continue to treat you the way you always have been treated, when you really didn't realize there was anything dysfunctional about it. You CAN'T change them; it may not be possible for them to suddenly see themselves from your shoes and realize what's happened already and change on their own, how they treat you. Stop trying to change THEM, and focus on changing you.

If it's one thing in common we've all learned here, it's that with a long enough timeframe and the right kind of support and work on ourselves... WE can change. And that will completely disrupt the "power" of your FOO to affect you this intensely. It frees you from your own reactions (somewhat, over time) and living with the negative feedback loops (the "tapes") that run in your own mind. And that will help you identify ways to react differently (not play your assigned role) to their little games. After you've accomplished that bit of "freedom" from playing the game... you'll be able to see some new things to focus on.

So, the bare facts:

You can not change them; not possible.

You CAN change you; you can learn to be different; to react differently to them - spend some time doing that and things will look a bit more hopeful - for YOU. What you've experienced, to date, isn't a "life sentence" meaning you'll always be how you are now.

They are technically, your family, but that doesn't mean that "having a relationship" with them is necessary to living a fulfilling life. It's not a law that you have to have a relationship with them. You can commit to doing whatever is necessary to independent of them; commit to taking care of yourself and making your life what you want it to be... sans a relationship with people you don't especially like.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

Hopalong

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Re: Hello - need support
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2018, 04:55:15 PM »
Brilliant, Amber.

Hope you believe this, Ernie.
I think it will help you.

Gently,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."