Author Topic: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)  (Read 4778 times)

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2076
Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2017, 07:11:22 AM »
Had a funny experience this morning.  Drove past a group of traveling showmen parked up by the side of the road, it's the sort of lifestyle that fascinates me but I've always been too shy to speak to anyone when I've seen them parked up like that.  So as part of my new 'relinquishing control' lifestyle I stopped to say hello.  They didn't seem particularly eager to chat so I didn't stop for very long.  On the way back to the van I found myself listing all the negative things they must be thinking about me but I stopped myself - the main thing is that I put myself out of my comfort zone, I showed myself that you really have no idea what people will be like until you talk to them and it doesn't actually matter, it was two minutes out of my day and means I won't spend the rest of the weekend wondering if I missed a life changing moment by not stopping to speak to them!  Baby steps towards not controlling every aspect and not falling apart if something doesn't go the way I imagined (and next step is to stop imagining how things will go in advance!) :)

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2076
Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2017, 04:29:00 AM »
Zoiks, well I have sent the email off!  I've kept it brief and factual, essentially just his age, disability and might they be able to help me with the application.  I did realise over the weekend that I was procrastinating a bit; the process itself does still scare me quite a bit but then I thought it's a good opportunity to practise boundaries and assertiveness.  If they want to organise a meeting I can chose a date that suits me, if I haven't got all the paperwork in time I can re-schedule or even, shock, horror, arrive only 80% prepared instead of 100%!  The world wouldn't stop and I could practise letting someone else advise and be part of the process instead of controlling it all the way through.  If I get really stressed and it is becoming a nightmare I can just put it all on hold for a while - there are options other than me needing to be in control all the way through.  And breathe :)

Thank you for all of the help, everybody, I will let you know as developments come along :)

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2076
Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2017, 05:39:17 AM »
Zoiks again!  They replied almost straight away and I nearly had a heart attack, I always have visions of a big alarm going off the minute our name pops up on someone's screen :)  Anyway, they've said yes, they can help and asked a few questions, one of which was my consent to enter my son's name on their database.  That made me panic as we've had awful situations with data protection breaches in the past and I know people just ignore the confidential aspect of things a lot of the time but........... I have to give up control so I've agreed and have given them the other info they asked for (just basic stuff about health, address etc).  They will now ring in a week or so to discuss the next step so yes - first step towards giving up control taken!  Might need to go for a lie down :) x

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10550
Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2017, 09:44:58 AM »
SO wowed by you hope YOU'RE proud of you, Tupp!
I can hear/feel in my gut how big a step this was.

And you took it. Bravo, bravo!

All really will be well. Do you get a chance to meet with them too?

But this dreadful cursing simply has to stop...
Zoicks? I am shocked, shocked I tell you!

My stars and garters.
Heaven forfend!
Land sakes!

Well I'll be blowed.

Mega hugs,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

sKePTiKal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3373
Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2017, 09:51:30 AM »
Boy can I relate to your story of going to university, Tupps. My life has kind of run the reverse of yours, socio-economically, and I got along better with my profs than most other students. I had high expectations of the ivory tower of knowledge and came away disappointed, when all was said & done. Yes, there were people with the same level of curiosity and self-motivated thought processing of new ideas - and creating ideas - and that's how I got through it. Seeking those people out.

Congrats on your first step! Yes, it DOES take a lot of energy. I can also deeply relate to the emotional processing going on over this bit of life change you're starting. I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that our childhood abusive conditioning is responsible for the fears that we still have -- at the base, my guess is that it's a fear of invalidation, the pain of rejection/humiliation, of being shunned and seen as "not right" - just for being who you are. Being "other".

As it happens, I spent the morning working through processing just this kind of thing that I watched transpire between my D and her SO. The intricate dance of control, domination, and power struggle - and the use of invalidation as a lever or mechanism or weapon in the process. I tried to warn him off the topic, in our conversation, divert him; but it's their dance to the same impasse over & over - and it always goes to that ultimate life/death fear of catastrophic life change. All because he doesn't recognize that invalidation is a boundary transgression with my D. And her anger is directly due to that transgression: he creates it... by feeling that he can monitor, refine, re-organize the most minute expressions of herself...

probably the primal motivation is that he doesn't feel "safe" when he's not in total control. And she doesn't feel "safe" when someone says that who she really is - should be something else. What's kinda odd, is that she was way more in control of her anger - than he was about his conviction of what was right/wrong in a very tiny piece of relaxed, enjoyable conversation. And I don't think he recognizes that. I intervened to get them to drop it - but that never happened.

She's been telling me about this for awhile. Seriously, the whole thing that was made an issue of was so minutely insignificant and trivial I was kinda confused about what was going on. Then, I recognized it was like two kids in the back seat of the car, picking on each other: MOM.... he breathed on me again!!!! She won't stop looking at me!!!! So, I separated them. LOL.

They're as bad as my two cats. But, not letting it drop pushed her right into having to manage her intense anger at being "parented" by him and invalidated over some idiotically minor thing and he is taking the risk of REALLY making her angry; pushing her past the limits of her control with his constant picking at something this minute. She really did pretty good at controlling herself, IMO. Because I've seen her explode and let the anger carry her away.

I don't know where she would get THAT.   :shock:
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5561
Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2017, 02:34:14 PM »
Tupp.... my stomach skittered sideways reading about your names going into databases.  I registered a car recently.  Every time there's a milestone I go over the list of places I've made us vulnerable.  I go through the drill, then come to acceptance.  Again.  It gets better over time, but..... we'll always have little skitters I think. 

Our children are older now.  We can pat ourselves on the back, and look forward now.

::nodding::

I'm so proud of you!

Lighter

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2076
Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2017, 04:08:36 AM »
SO wowed by you hope YOU'RE proud of you, Tupp!
I can hear/feel in my gut how big a step this was.

And you took it. Bravo, bravo!

All really will be well. Do you get a chance to meet with them too?

But this dreadful cursing simply has to stop...
Zoicks? I am shocked, shocked I tell you!

My stars and garters.
Heaven forfend!
Land sakes!

Well I'll be blowed.

Mega hugs,
Hops

Hops, you're so funny, I've been watching Scooby Doo with my son so zoiks is my favourite word at the moment.  What is not to love about Scooby Doo?  Just the bestest :)

Anyway, yes, was a big step but has been taken, my old habits - so strong - keep raring up but I am putting them back in their boxes with a firm 'No'.

I think meeting up will be a bit further down the line.  Initially I would like some advice on how much and what kind of information to send in with the initial request, and then I'd like to talk through which parts of the assessment process I need to submit information for.  It's quite a long and drawn out process and I'm aware of the need to keep my stress levels down so ideally I'd like to have everything I need to do done before I put the initial request in, so that I'm not suddenly having to find paperwork and deal with any triggers that might come up whilst I'm up against a deadline.  I'm aware the whole process is going to send me into meltdown more than once so I'm hoping to get myself into a position where all I need to do is put things into envelopes and then go out for a walk.

I've got some info to read re the child protection side of things and as that the bit that freaks me out the most I think I'd like to organise a meeting before it gets to that stage so that everyone has the correct information, not my mother's wibbly wobbly world view.  But that's quite a bit further down the line yet so I've time to read, think and digest (and ask for advice here!) before going any further.  But yes, it does feel good, I'm starting to feel like grown up, well qualified, logical, rational Tup is in charge instead of my frightened little girl (who hopefully will feel less frightened as this process moves along).

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2076
Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2017, 04:19:05 AM »
Boy can I relate to your story of going to university, Tupps. My life has kind of run the reverse of yours, socio-economically, and I got along better with my profs than most other students. I had high expectations of the ivory tower of knowledge and came away disappointed, when all was said & done. Yes, there were people with the same level of curiosity and self-motivated thought processing of new ideas - and creating ideas - and that's how I got through it. Seeking those people out.

Congrats on your first step! Yes, it DOES take a lot of energy. I can also deeply relate to the emotional processing going on over this bit of life change you're starting. I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that our childhood abusive conditioning is responsible for the fears that we still have -- at the base, my guess is that it's a fear of invalidation, the pain of rejection/humiliation, of being shunned and seen as "not right" - just for being who you are. Being "other".

As it happens, I spent the morning working through processing just this kind of thing that I watched transpire between my D and her SO. The intricate dance of control, domination, and power struggle - and the use of invalidation as a lever or mechanism or weapon in the process. I tried to warn him off the topic, in our conversation, divert him; but it's their dance to the same impasse over & over - and it always goes to that ultimate life/death fear of catastrophic life change. All because he doesn't recognize that invalidation is a boundary transgression with my D. And her anger is directly due to that transgression: he creates it... by feeling that he can monitor, refine, re-organize the most minute expressions of herself...

probably the primal motivation is that he doesn't feel "safe" when he's not in total control. And she doesn't feel "safe" when someone says that who she really is - should be something else. What's kinda odd, is that she was way more in control of her anger - than he was about his conviction of what was right/wrong in a very tiny piece of relaxed, enjoyable conversation. And I don't think he recognizes that. I intervened to get them to drop it - but that never happened.

She's been telling me about this for awhile. Seriously, the whole thing that was made an issue of was so minutely insignificant and trivial I was kinda confused about what was going on. Then, I recognized it was like two kids in the back seat of the car, picking on each other: MOM.... he breathed on me again!!!! She won't stop looking at me!!!! So, I separated them. LOL.

They're as bad as my two cats. But, not letting it drop pushed her right into having to manage her intense anger at being "parented" by him and invalidated over some idiotically minor thing and he is taking the risk of REALLY making her angry; pushing her past the limits of her control with his constant picking at something this minute. She really did pretty good at controlling herself, IMO. Because I've seen her explode and let the anger carry her away.

I don't know where she would get THAT.   :shock:

Hi Skep,

I think I was very lucky as there was a big shift in the sort of people that could go to University here some twenty odd years ago.  Colleges were able to apply for University status and link with established Universities, but they also started providing more financial support, waiving the need for formal qualifications for mature students (the theory being if you were giving up a job and regular income you were doing it because you really wanted to, not because family had insisted) and introducing a wider range of more flexible courses so that people (like me) could work as well as study and it was the opposite of the Ivory Tower of knowledge, really, more a recycled pre fab full of people that wanted more out of life and finally had the chance to have a go.  It was the best period of my life (and is actually making me think now that more study is a good idea for me).

Yes, the childhood conditioning is so relevant; funnily enough I was talking to a friend (who had a horrible University experience) about how much I enjoyed learning and for me the biggest difference was that there were people who took the time to help me understand and improve in a kind and supportive way, instead of laughing at me or calling me a f**king idiot.  I'd not experienced that sort of no-strings help before and I'm only now starting to realise that when I finished Uni I came back to my old role as the village weirdo because I was too scared to take the next step completely alone.  It's hard to pull apart the unnecessary, childhood stuff from who and where we are now.  It's so tangled up.

And yes, I can really identify with other people arguing about such insignificant things that I'm not even sure what the row is about!  One person I know in particular does that; she tells me about some grievance she has and we get to a point where there's a silence and I realise she's at the end of her explanation and I still don't actually know what she's miffed about.  I find it very tiring and have started to keep away from people that do that now, I don't have the spare brain power! :) x

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2076
Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2017, 04:24:24 AM »
Tupp.... my stomach skittered sideways reading about your names going into databases.  I registered a car recently.  Every time there's a milestone I go over the list of places I've made us vulnerable.  I go through the drill, then come to acceptance.  Again.  It gets better over time, but..... we'll always have little skitters I think. 

Our children are older now.  We can pat ourselves on the back, and look forward now.

::nodding::

I'm so proud of you!

Lighter

Thanks, Lighter, I'm proud of you, too!  Yes it's each time, isn't it, you've put another kink in the armour, there's a weak spot there that some unpleasant person can squeeze through but, as you say, our kids are going out into the world now, there comes a time when you have to take the arm bands off.  I am just trying to keep saying to myself that there's only so much I can do.  I won't be here forever and it is better to have him safe, settled and well looked after sooner rather than later.  So yes, stepping gingerly in the right direction :) x

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2076
Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2017, 02:23:10 PM »
Have been reading through the paperwork that explains what will happen during the assessment and who will do what.  I have realised that, in my hypervigilent, stressed out, certain-that-we-are-doomed state (that I typically inhabit) I have misunderstood the section about child protection.  It's only mentioned in the context of there being a current plan in place, so that the different agencies work together instead of repeating the same things in different areas.  There's no need for any historic situations to come up at all.  I am worried about my mum making another referral once she hears my son is at the college but I think I can just mention it informally when I talk things through with the local team and it's probably just a case of letting the college know at the outset.  His social services records were all updated at the time (by me!) and I have had notes put on all of our medical files regarding false allegations so that people are aware.  So I have misunderstood what needs to be brought out into the open here.

I was worried that she'd make allegations when we moved, but that hasn't happened.  It will be heavenly to get him into college and for her to do nothing.  Perhaps she has now given up.

I did start to hyperventilate a bit at the thought of all the work I need to do, but then realised I was going into my 'trying to cover every base and not make a single mistake' mode so I have calmed myself down a bit.  The local team can help me figure out which information I need to organise and what's necessary and at which point.  It is possible to add and change things as we go along and really, I should just focus on getting him into the college for now - I can fine tune and start asking for different things once he's in, settled, happy and we can see where we are at.  I do just need to calm down a bit and in view of that I've decided that I'm not cooking tonight, we're going to go out and get some food and then go for a nice walk to relax before bedtime :)

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10550
Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2017, 04:44:46 PM »
GOOD for you, Tupp.
You really are recognizing anxiety for what it is and not allowing it to spiral.
So so impressed.

Once he's in the college, can you provide a formal written letter to the college saying, "Please note that contact or communication from maternal grandparents with [Son], his teachers, his counselors or College representatives is disallowed. This must be fully enforced due to a history of family abuse."

I made that up but it sounds sane..... And simple.

?? Dunno. Pretty uninformed advice but again, I don't think you'll have to replicate the ENTIRE history for the College or this application-helping organization. Just drawing that boundary clearly and telling them what they need to know if they ask.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2076
Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2017, 04:57:52 PM »
GOOD for you, Tupp.
You really are recognizing anxiety for what it is and not allowing it to spiral.
So so impressed.

Once he's in the college, can you provide a formal written letter to the college saying, "Please note that contact or communication from maternal grandparents with [Son], his teachers, his counselors or College representatives is disallowed. This must be fully enforced due to a history of family abuse."

I made that up but it sounds sane..... And simple.

?? Dunno. Pretty uninformed advice but again, I don't think you'll have to replicate the ENTIRE history for the College or this application-helping organization. Just drawing that boundary clearly and telling them what they need to know if they ask.

hugs
Hops

Yes, I think keep it simple, or if I'm really doing well with my relinquishing control mission, not mention it at all and just deal with it if something happens.  The more I think about it the less likely I think it is she will do it again, mostly because he's too old now and therefore no longer in her range of children she likes to cast her spell over.  The whole process will take months anyway so I think I'll just keep it to the back of my mind now and try to focus on more positive things.  We went for a walk this evening and I was thinking how nice it would be to start making good memories now and building on things for the future instead of trying to forget and escape the past.

Didn't realise I'd underlined half of that post either, lol, was just supposed to be one word but clearly I didn't switch it off again :)

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2076
Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
« Reply #42 on: July 06, 2017, 12:14:21 PM »
Appointment with consultant this morning and it was awful; very triggering and they seemed very unprofessional so I am feeling very shaken at the mo.  Fortunately I have my two days off scheduled for tomorrow and the day after so I can just relax and recharge if I want to.  Essentially they said they don't think my son's epileptic episodes are epilepsy, they think they're behavioural episodes.  He's been autistic for a long time and I know a lot about the condition and I've never heard of behavioural episodes that resemble epileptic ones.  Added to that it was a neurologist, a consultant and an emergency care team who thought what they witnessed was epileptic seizures, albeit non-convulsive ones (and this is one of those things that they think is under diagnosed), plus he saw a multi-disciplinary team at a large children's hospital that specialises in autism and neurological problems and I think they would have mentioned the possibility of it being behavioural if it was likely?  It has unsettled me a bit, brought back a lot of memories of people dismissing what was going on and echoed people blaming me.  Most of that is on me, not them, but it triggered a lot and there has been a bit of a deluge this afternoon and now I feel quite numb.

I do think doctors randomly disagreeing with previous diagnoses is unprofessional unless further testing has been carried out.  I think it just muddies the waters and causes anxiety for no good reason.  They didn't have any of his previous records despite my writing to them weeks ago to ask them to request them (parents can't ask for records to be transferred, the request has to come from the other hospital).  They also said that his medication is too low a level to be making any difference therapeutically but I've checked since and he's on 200mg more a day than the minimum therapeutic dose.  None of it has instilled any confidence in me but I am trying to keep it in perspective and not let it overwhelm me.

Garbanzo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2162
Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2017, 01:47:44 AM »
Gosh that is odd.

It happens. I once had an urgent care doctor tell me as an adult that he didn't think I have asthma even though I've been taking medication for it almost my whole life. He had to call his wife who is also a doctor in that network and happened to be my regular doctor. I assume she told him I was legit with the asthma business. I've also had doctors make me exhale into these big measuring machines that pretty much prove I have asthma.

It did make me feel pretty uncomfortable that he would question it like I was crazy or something. He had given me a really weird look and I can only assume he thought I was a drug addict or having a psychotic episode of some sort.

Doesn't make any sense at all because the medications I was needing at the moment are not things that druggies seek out.

Also if I was that bat crap crazy I would really be on some kind of serious med by now. I do think I was having some sort of anxiety episode at that moment when I went to the doctor.

Anyhow. What can you do but shrug it off and move on which it sounds like you are doing.    8)

For sure if they are going to question prior diagnosis it should be based on some type of testing. At least that would appear to be logical but who knows anymore. It just sounds like a headache to deal with them.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 01:52:28 AM by Garbanzo »

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10550
Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
« Reply #44 on: July 07, 2017, 05:56:48 AM »
Tupp, I'm sorry it was so stressful.

But please...DON'T let it turn into a worry conflagration.
Remember that the key bit is that they haven't yet received his records.

So they can jaw and speculate without proof all they like (and I'm sure
it's damned distressing, given what you've been through) -- but once his
records do arrive, things should be more clear.

Even I, a non-doctor (except in my head) know about non-convulsive
epileptic seizures, so what's their excuse?

Anyway, remember that people just blather and aren't sensitive to
the impact of careless statements on you. It's NOT the past repeating...

Breaaaaaathe.....

love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."