Author Topic: Exploring resistence  (Read 3957 times)

Hopalong

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Re: Exploring resistence
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2016, 01:54:02 PM »
I don't think you can maneuver him into accepting your boundaries.
Testing them over and over and over is part of his entertainment, whether he sees that about himself or not.

"Friend group" or not, I don't think you owe him any space: social, professional, personal, emotional, mental...

So I would look hard at what you get out of continuing to serve him. What is this worth to your serenity and peaceful pursuit of your work?

You are the boundary woman who gets it. Don't let some old tape interfere...

(Sorry, totally unsolicited...and maybe wrong. But moved to say it anyway...)

Hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Exploring resistence
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2016, 03:08:28 PM »
Hops:.

You're absolutely correct in your assessment IMO. 

Now.....
 distance, without conflict, is the mission.

 It got much easier since the guy who brought him into the group finally admits there's a problem.  I guess he's the one who needs to break up with him. 

I have an easy out BC the pd guy committed to seeing another BIT practitioner for full integration, which I'm not able to provide. 

Thanks for the advice, which is always welcome.


Lighter

lighter

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Re: Exploring resistence
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2016, 04:24:22 PM »
The icky situation with the guy is done.  At least for me. 

My friend was questioned about my abrupt withdrawal and said I was simply
"done with clinical hours... that was it." 

The guy said "That's bullshit!"   
Aggressive and disturbing, IMO.

My friend is withdrawing more slowly, but the guy knows "something's up."

Disordered people lie, stomp boundaries into the dirt, and wonder why things aren't going well for them over and over and over again.

Exhausting.

Lighter 


 


Twoapenny

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Re: Exploring resistence
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2016, 04:34:40 PM »
Glad you are out of that, Lighter.  Difficult for the friend who has to try and untangle themselves.  Friendships are funny, in romantic relationships it's usual for someone to announce an official break up if they don't want to see the other person anymore, but we don't tend to do that with friendships unless there's been a major incident.  Life might be easier if we ended friendships more cleanly.  I'm not sure why we don't?

sKePTiKal

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Re: Exploring resistence
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2016, 09:32:07 AM »
Well, I missed all that - being preoccupied with my own stuff - Lighter.

You did good!! IMO, anyway. I really think there's no way we can go through life without having to occasionally deal with PD people. You recognized him; tried setting boundaries; realized he wasn't capable... and walked away with very little drama.

The end.

LOL.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.

lighter

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Re: Exploring resistence
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2016, 11:30:09 AM »
Yes....So glad I'm not silently listening to his monologues with him assuring me he's someone he's absolutely not.

There have been two fishing texts I've ignored.  Six weeks of absolute zero contact should be the end of it.  Unless of course contact with mutual friend drags it out.  Hopefully not.

I'm not sure if the friend likes the drama or he's really concerned about safety.  It's likely a bit of both, IMO.

Lighter


Hopalong

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Re: Exploring resistence
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2016, 07:06:50 PM »
No.

Such a powerful word.

I'm glad you said it.

And if there's even a shred of threat in him, a Cease & Desist?

Block texts so you don't even see them. Screen calls...anyway, I'm sure you know the drill.

Kudos, Lighter. You don't need it.

Hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Exploring resistence
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2017, 03:07:30 PM »
Hi Hops:

He's gone silent with me and mostly withdrawn contact with mutual friend, so...... maybe it's over. 

I try to avoid being bossy boots with MF, but I feel strongly that NOW is the time for his complete shut off and say so since the guy's own withdrawal is likely less bruising/upsetting, IMO. Varun on sentence anyone?;)
Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: Exploring resistence
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2017, 06:01:36 PM »
Hmm. Honest thought?

Feeling that strongly about another person's choices about a relationship in their life...unless they're your minor child, is... well, is bossy boots a euphemism for controlling? (NO offense intended--I speak from my own egregious experience. Busted more than once years back, either by my own resistant realization or gentle reminders from friends. For me it was an unpleasant reckoning of anxiety-based behavior. But I'm grateful to have seen it.)

Since you've drawn your own smart boundaries with the creepy guy, and he's no longer an intrusion or emotional threat to you--isn't expanding your own boundaries to include your MF's boundary choices or decisions about the dude...out of your sphere of control?

You can always decline to cross paths if MF continues to socialize with him, ja? And you don't have to LIKE it that MF still has a bro-tolerance for him for MF's own (I know, inexplicable) reasons. It's a really common thing. But my inner Prudie (Slate.com) sez, still: Not your call.

Does this make sense or am I way off base? (So possible I am very prepared to hear it, promise!)

Hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Exploring resistence
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2017, 09:27:38 PM »
You know, HOps..... you're right.

I feeeeeeeeel my bossy boots behavior is off, but darnit.....
I'm a tad angry at MF for shoving CG down my/our throats.  It's such an overt boundary transgression, on so many may levels.

I guess what this is.... is a really good lesson in boundaries and enforcing them.   

::sigh:: 

I should have been more proactive.  I should have stuck to my guns, and refused all contact, bc I knew from MF's stories what CG was about.  I knew. 

Maybe I'm more angry at myself than MF. 

Lighter



 

Hopalong

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Re: Exploring resistence
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2017, 12:20:06 AM »
I can totally relate to that!
And it makes perfect sense.

Thou Shalt Allow Thyself to Not Do It All Perfectly.
Repetez.

Commandment #something...

hugs
Hops

"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Exploring resistence
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2017, 12:36:31 PM »
All this hooks into years of being strong armed in the civil legal system, against my will, and consequences of same.

All that hooks into my aversion to conflict/people pleasing traits/failure to honor my instincts going way back.

I SEE the lesson.  I understand how to honor myself, but have yet to learn how to SEE clearly that my right to honor myself isn't negotiable.  I've been listening to people, who split the baby as a matter of course in the cicil legal arena, (Insane IMO) and the only time I've ever really stood my ground was when I had zero  choice in the matter..... the custody case with my children's emotional and physical well-being squarely on the line. 

Why does splitting a baby SEEM like a good idea to ANYONE in a position of responsibility to the baby?   Honestly, it doesn't.  They're not kidding anyone, including themselves, IME.

I've noticed that I can fight for others, but find it difficult to fight for myself. 

I've also noticed that fighting for myself has always required that my nose be bloodied (fig. and lit.) before I consider striking a defensive posture and striking on my behalf.  That's a very weak position to live from, IME.  It's something I'd like to change, meaning.....
being more proactive in AVOIDING situations and people that require I fight at all, KWIM?

I think "normal" people don't have the blind spots where toxic people doing toxic things are concerned, IMO.
They SEE aberrant behavior, toxic actions, words that don't square up and they feel entitled to turn away from it without angst, preamble or justification..... they also don't require anyone, but themselves, understand why they're doing what they're doing.

Making decisions based on short term relief from discomfort has always been a bad idea, IME.  We HOPE for an outcome that will bring peace and closure but a part of us KNOWS it's going to lead to more trouble than we were dealing with in the first place, IME

                                          Ahhh.. hope.

It's hope that kills us.  Who said that?  They're absolutely right, IME. 

I'm going to go to the Asian market now and buy ingredients for Korean Spicy Rice Cakes.... planning on being snowed in with dd14 who enjoys watching Buzzfeed's The Try Guys, who made this on one of their shows.  Very funny stuff.

We also have lettuce wraps planned so will pick up fresh Thai basil and water chestnuts.  I love mushrooms in this dish, but it makes it too rich maybe?  Maybe mushrooms every other time.

::nodding::

The Pug had me up at 2:30 am for a potty run, and I'm struggling with a 10 day cold.... disgusting...... feel like my head's packed in cotton, bleck, but hey..... it's sunny. 

I count my blessings. 

I embrace my lovely moments (two great cups of coffee, an hour chat with dd15, and very productive chat with MF so far) and go on with my day.   

I recognize I need to do work on distinguishing the difference between positive compromises and what is giving in for short term comfort that sacrifices long term peace.  Typically there's one path to long term peace, even if it requires a loathed battle, IME. 

I hope I find it in myself to make the right decisions, long term, from here on out....... and with less angst.

Having this chat with myself brings much comfort.  I don't need anyone's permission or understanding to do what's right for me and my family. 

I don't require anyone's permission but my own.

::nodding::
Lighter



Twoapenny

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Re: Exploring resistence
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2017, 02:41:41 PM »
Interesting that you've written this today, Lighter.  I'm reading a book about happiness by The Dalai Lama (Christmas present from a friend) and the chapter I read today talks about pleasure and happiness not being the same thing and suggests you always ask yourself "Will this make me happy?".  It really struck a cord with me; I comfort eat to allay the loneliness and the exhaustion but it's making me unhappy because I'm gaining weight.  I often avoid conflict with people because I hate the feelings it brings up - but then find I'm in an ongoing situation that wouldn't have occured if I'd just said my bit in the beginning and coped with the short term feelings.  It suddenly made a lot of sense to me and reading what you've written about making decisions to provide short term relief reminded me of that.

lighter

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Re: Exploring resistence
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2017, 06:33:12 PM »
Hi Tupp:

I'm really trying hard to be aware of the decisions I'm making right now. 

Not that you have to answer, but.....

What makes you happy?  I mean deeply happy?

What makes anyone on this board "happy"?

And..... what if discerning the answers requires something we don't have....  yet? 

What if you/we were distracted by crisis/survival when we should have been discovering needs/purpose/passion/drive? 

Some families eat their own young...... 

or have completely different values/needs, or value the opposite of what a particular child WOULD value if they were allowed to explore, be authentic, and seek out anything that belonged to them.  If they weren't busy surviving.... had ability to explore? 

What if you were a swan baby born into a family of ducks?  Ducks who valued nothing you would have valued had you been allowed something of your own?   What if we're duck babies born into a family of swans, or frogs or foxes?  Just different.

I have to assume everyone is doing their best, always, given their ability, etc, so I'm trying not to focus on blame, but trying to focus on reasons/facts surrounding a child not identifying their true path and passions.  How we get to a place where we're asking ourselves what we need/want/require to be happy rather than blaming or people pleasing, etc.   

Finding the equations so they can be solved, opposed to stopping at emotional reactions to the idea of them.

Maybe it's like Doc G says...... children need to be given voice to be whole? 

And so we come to the place where we decide we can give that permission to ourselves, or we don't. 

Maybe everyone.... here..... was denied voice and maybe the best parents can't provide it perfectly always, for whatever reason intended or otherwise, and maybe we have the chance, in the present, to give ourselves permission and voice and agency?

  Maybe the coping strategies we develop are a matter of luck and chance?

What's the magical equation for discovering one's true North?  Doc G, as a healthcare provider creates a safe relationship to help people feel truly known, understood and accepted, warts and all,  as good enough.... he builds on that and God bless him for helping so many people, but some are lucky enough to find a good T, and some aren't.   Some can heal through relationship to T, and some can't. 

And.... what when we find our true North?

How do we develop the resiliency to go on if we lose true North?

Resiliency........ 

 Deep abiding purpose that sustains us..... allows us to return to true happiness? 

What if we can't find our true North?  What if true North is something we feel is outside of us?  What if it's inside, and we just have to wrap our minds around it, and believe it?  Find a way to internalize the message, and live that truth.

What if you/we(general) need the irrational impossible approval of caregivers who will never be available, or safe?  And what if you/we KNOW they can't give it, and some part of us still NEEDS it? 

Irrational hope......
 The death of living in the moment.

Maybe pleasure is what we settle for...... IF we don't/can't find the answers.  Maybe we make good decisions only after we've exhausted all other possibilities?

I've read ADDICTION AND GRACE by Gerald May several times. 

What if pleasure is addiction, and grace is happiness?

We stuff the hole in our chests with what we have, and if we're lucky, learn to shift into observer mode and take stock..... if we can..... we re-group,  put changes in place, and grow stronger, happier, wiser.....
happier, yes.   We persevere.  We strive until we move into a better space, and then we do it again, as needed.

When we know better, we do better, right?

Not always.  Sometimes we hear the same information over and over, but have to hear it one more time, or in a different format, or through metaphor and maybe then it clicks. Maybe it clicks then slips back out of focus until it doesn't?

What if finding grace, for some of us, is a matter of figuring out equations written in foreign languages?  I think of this as emotional dyslexia or ADD or being on the spectrum somewhere.  Hampered in ways that not everyone is hampered.  Old tapes running in the background, static so thick it can't be overcome without tremendous effort and sustained support.

What if it's not that at all?

What if happiness is the gift of trickery?  Of self delusion?  Remember Doc G's lifeboat play?

What if we can't swing sustained delusion?

What if reality is true North, and reality won't provide deep abiding meaning/purpose/happiness for everyone?

Wow this turned into a bit of a rant.  Apologies.

::cracking on::

What if everything is happening exactly as it's supposed to unfold, and every child was born into circumstances of that child's choosing according to the lessons he or she chose for him or herself?  That would be a relief, on one hand, wouldn't it?  Well, not if you're a suffering child, it wouldn't. 

What if we were distracted, or under fire and simply missed an important self discovery chapter at the age appropriate stage of development in childhood?  What if most children do miss it, hence all the unsatisfying jobs, marriages, relationship turmoil that follows some of us, and ongoing journeys of self discovery in adulthood? 

I can tell you this, my oldest dd16 was working with a life coach regarding choosing university and career path, and the coach asked questions I'd never thought of.  Very useful questions..... THIS is one path to self discovery, IME. 

Seeking Information . 

90% research and 10% execution.  Seeking out people with experience and tools we don't have.......
 we review and keep what makes sense and discard the rest.  Or not, but here we are on this forum sharing and learning from each other. 

Sharing problem solving skills...... 

Life skills.

Managing to step around naval gazing traps of blame and shame.... of being stuck.... how to move forward?   


I'm certainly learning the hard way, despite my parents attempts to teach and mostly bc my parents were young, and didn't know better in some regards.  So.  Young.   

I get that.

Maybe it;s a matter of learning to STOP doing what we've always done, if what we've always done is keeping us from growing? Unlearning old habits.... replacing them.... SO.  Hard. 

Meditation.  Great idea, IME, just learning to make space for something other than reacting.

Stress tends to drive us back to what we've always done..... it's a hard cycle to kick, IME.  So hard to trade up coping strategies when under fire, IME.

Maybe some of us are trapped in an emotional loop..... fear, helplessness, terror, feeling at the mercy of.....
just deeply mired....
truly stuck.  That's a different animal?  Being stuck in terror or feeling at the mercy of?  Is it?  I don't honestly know... maybe it's that for everyone struggling on some level? 

And, if so....

Maybe we have to experience old trauma or process old trauma in a new way..... creating a new outcome in order to get past it?  Maybe we change it, re-frame it, turn it into something else in order to free ourselves from it.  Maybe we parent our inner child or practice metaphor therapy or a combination of 10 healing therapies according to personal needs before we finally crack the code.

Evaluating our coping strategies, true needs and desires..... actions, thoughts and words.... shedding fear, obligation, guilt.... forgiving ourselves and others..... these are useful tools we'd do well to embrace I guess..... always.   Everything evolves and changes.   Developing healthy coping strategies, realistic self image not warped into something toxic by other people...... some children luckier or less so, but all developing strategies for survival, and around adults who model more or less productive coping strategies.  Luck of the draw.

I remember researching spanking when my children were very young and I don't want to debate the merits, but..... it occurred to me that modeling physical violence against vulnerable people under our control was unlikely to teach my children useful problem solving skills for their futures. 

Further, teaching my girls that "normal" was being hit by a man, responsible for protecting them,  set off HUGE alarm bells.  It wasn't any definition of discipline I could reconcile.  I think how society views children is a piece of the puzzle.

Some people simply do what their parents did, and they don't ask questions, but I wasn't that person.... my parents spanked.  I considered it.  Didn't feel I was much harmed by it, honestly, but..... I needed to research everything.   To breast feed, co-sleep, Mother's Morning Out program or not, positive discipline, feed on a schedule, practice non violent communication, etc.  Lots to think about I'd never considered :shock:  Lots my parents had never considered, and would reluctantly consider only when challenged by my parenting style, which was not theirs. 

And.... one of my True Norths was parenting my girls when they were small.  When I had time to research and mindfully choose routines and plan ahead for the next phase.  It was a very happy time filled with serenity and ritual, and I miss it.     I'm trying to come to terms with the years I've lost doing battle.  What have I lost?  I haven't even figured it out yet.  It's a bit terrifying, honestly. 


Today I spoke with dd16 and her T.  Part of the topic was how things can be 2 things at once, which makes me think of some parents I know who are 100% better parents than their own parents, but...... they're also the people who don't question their parenting choices, IME.  They parent from the gut, do no research, and can't, for some reason, consider they might have missed a step, or two.  People who require we believe, or act like we believe, they're perfect frighten me very much, mostly bc they're usually the kind of people who need to destroy/discredit anyone who doesn't agree with them always. Personality disordered, pathological....... it's never their fault, ever, and they can point out who's fault it is without blinking an eye or giving it any thought, IME.  Everyone here has experience with PD individuals.
 

That's one of the parts of the equation, isn't it?  We're more lucky or less lucky as children.  Right?  Parents with zero discipline, coping skills and problem solving strategies can't teach how to do better, bc they can't do any better.  Does it matter if someone modeled something better for them or not if they didn't learn?  I guess it might.  I sometimes think it does.  My mother used to say that her gentle non spanking mother "was the perfect mother for her.

I wanted to ask her why Grandma wouldn't have been a perfect mother for everyone, but I didn't.  I could see the shadow of doubt in her eyes as she said it.... just on the rim of questioning her own parenting choices, and at the time, how she expected me to parent my girls, which we disagreed on. 

New rant direction....
If everyone can be categorized as those who blame everyone but themselves, and those who think everything's their fault.... the ones in the latter category seem to be easier to reach, IME.   It's not that simple, but sometimes it feels that way, IME.

And....

if that's something of the case, how do the dynamics of those who BLAME EVERYONE ELSE effect the people who get blamed and believe everything is their fault?  That's a pickle, huh.  Confusing as hell.  Likely these two categories make up the majority of people living in dysfunctional FOOs?  Maybe?

No wonder it's so hard to figure these things out with so many voices and opinions and NEEEEEEED in the world.    How can you get past what was done to you and your son, Tupp, when the people who did those things are justifying what they did with blame, and a campaign of  misinformation they have no trouble sustaining with anyone who will listen?     

You do what you did, Tupp.... you research the facts, believe the answers, and do what you can to protect yourself going forward.  You've done that, and come so far.   You've saved yourself, and now you have to figure out what comes next.

And the toxic people who afflict us will never admit to what they've done..... they can't.  No choice but to withdraw, circle our wagons and ride out the storms until enough distance is achieved to allow space to heal.  I think we're there, Tupp.   

God help us if we need to understand why they did what they did in order to transcend it.  Do we?

And then to have the legal system fail...... that's a new level of  helplessness... that's being locked into a situation one likely can't get out of, and it's unfair and wrong and terrifying when the PDs engage third parties to harm us and our children.. esp when it's the people responsible for protecting/enforcing our rights, IME. 

I digress...


IF we treat discomfort as the messenger it is..... shifting into observer mode long enough to get the lesson, and not ACT to escape the (what we've been calling short term) pain.....
maybe we spend more time exploring our options instead of reacting, freezing and fearing which brings up guilt and shame for not overcoming and transcending, right?  There are traps on so many levels.     

Poor coping strategies, toxic coping strategies, negative coping strategies..... so many ways to get to a place we don't want to be, and most of the time we're adults before we stop and evaluate these patterns......... then there's so much STUFF it's hard to see where the beginning is.  Eating an elephant a bite at a time, and I digress.  Again.

If we're lucky enough to identify poor coping strategies, and put new in place, then we perhaps become more proactive, less reactive, etc.  We learn to get more of what we want, and less of what we don't want ideally.  Simple as that, right?

Resistance creeps in.

Sometimes we just have to have faith and face the fear, IME......

The saying "What you fear will find you....." 
Holy guacamole....
scary stuff, but it's true, IME.

I'll say it again, Tupp..... you deserve happiness.  It's your time.  There are so many things you deal with daily..... your son's health, adjusting to a new place, adjusting to the change in pressure having left toxic people behind, the self imposed pressure to find happiness and model it for your son....... how do you find time to identify old wounds and coping strategies that no longer serve and then problem solve, and put new habits in place with so much pressure and struggle fighting dragons still?  You're already performing super human feats IME.....

be gentle with yourself.  Be forgiving, and kind.  Be the things you deserved all your life, but didn't receive.  You're worthy. 


What do you stand to gain if you make time to heal, as a priority, and implement positive new patterns? 

Rhetorical, of course(((Tupp)).  Everyone can ask themselves these questions.... I think we are asking on this forum all the time.

::nodding::

One more thought.....
There are so many ways of addressing trauma, and everyone is an individual..... maybe it's about picking and choosing what makes sense from many healing paths.  I kind's think that's true. 

Again, I don't know so excuse the rambling.  I apparently need to put quite a lot of today's process in writing.  Whew.  One may say they feel resistance to A, B or C, but maybe it's 3i5A creating the resistance.  And maybe we're only aware of A, B and C, and the 3i5A isn't something we can wrap our heads around even if we can identify it?

And so IF we focus on what we want, opposed to the cause and what we want less of..... can we get where we want to be more quickly?

I hope the book you're reading is providing some comfort and answers Tupp.  Please continue sharing: ) 

The journey continues.

Lighter




Hopalong

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Re: Exploring resistence
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2017, 08:15:00 PM »
Wow.
This is an EPIC post, Lighter. Like a spring that just found the surface. Kudos!

My thoughtless instinctive response was to tell you what makes me happy. And one more.

Happy: I had been telling my T over and over, meeting after meeting, the truth in recent years of despair: I have lost interest in my own life. I meant it. I repeated it. There was never a fast answer, just acceptance that this was the trough I was in. It was very real...the disinterest. Defeat.

Then, recently, I told him about a novel-writing workshop I'd signed up for. He said: I have never seen this light in your face. I knew it was true. I felt it. Almost "like that," I snapped back into caring about creating. Creating again. And...by extension, that meant I was suddenly interested in my own life again.

I just don't think there was any shortcut through the desert. I had so much grief and shock and pain to wait through (almost said "wade through."). It took the time it took, I just had to wade.

The second thing: have you ever read/done The Artist's Way? I have a feeling you, unplugged from your analytical and justice-seeking mind...only creating, would be freed by this process. To feel interest in your own creating again.

Just a thought and no idea of its truth...thank you for your extraordinary post.

Hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."