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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Heist on Something....
« Last post by Twoapenny on February 16, 2018, 01:07:42 PM »
Hopsie, you deserve all the kindness and validation that anyone can give you, you are Mrs Amazing and you need to keep telling yourself that (or let other people tell you :) ).  I am very happy to oblige :)

The Tone - yep, I can see why it bothered you.  I guess the whole part of the 'getting to know you' bit of any relationship is this sort of thing - dealing with the negatives.  It's great that he wanted/agreed to take the class with you.  It's understandable that he might not be into it or feel comfortable doing it.  But yes, I can see how the decision to not come and not discuss it (or perhaps just be honest and say he doesn't want to do it) doesn't feel good and yes, it does read that he's just decided he's doing something else and gone ahead and arranged it despite the fact you've made these other plans together.  So no, I wouldn't be feeling too chirpy about it and yes, it does echo the 'let's go away for a week, okay a weekend, oh, I've arranged a week' scenario.  And yes, he probably is used to just doing what he wants and other people fitting in with that (and maybe The Tone is the sort of default mode for that - I have a tone I use on my son when he's naughty and he says (to the cat); "Oh no - she's doing the voice").  But then what to do?  He might be open to talking about it and doing something to change it?  He seems to have been pretty open to other things you've talked about and willing to accept he might need to work on himself a bit.  Then I guess the question is do you have the energy to sit down and discuss it or does it feel like a big block that might be too big to work through? xx
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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: Heist on Something....
« Last post by Hopalong on February 16, 2018, 12:09:25 PM »
Thanks, Amber. This is exceedingly smart. Thank you for the reminder, and for teasing out that thing I was doing. Gluing the politics onto the person. I do think compassion or its lack is part of policy but also think I was billboardizing B...he doesn't behave as though he craves political debate and it's unfair to us both to let that be a big focus. And to project onto him my fears of his political "type."

And Tupp, I have to say I wish there was no ocean between us, because your generosity of spirit just blows me away. There is so much kindness and validation in what you wrote that it brought tears to my eyes. I so hope a few new people will appear in your life who can appreciate who you really are because they'll be very lucky to enjoy your friendship. (And I liked hearing that the man friend makes you laugh! Nobody deserves it more.) I also appreciate how much you understand fear and tease out how it can weave in and out of otherwise rational thinking. You're really deft in that, seeing the threads in the weave very clearly. Thanks.

Okay, team. So here's a new one. I may have mentioned that B and I were attending a "life stories" workshop. B felt out of his comfort zone but gamely attended the first session. It's a 5-class thing with "homework" (led by a university psychologist recently retired from ministry, with a very good reputation as a teacher) about life overviews, weaving in the insights of key developments in psychology. I have been pretty excited about how it could be a unique way for us to get to know each other on a deeper level. B also for the first time met a close friend of mine there.

He had asked when I first told him about it if he could drop out if he didn't like it, and made a remark afterward -- "Well, I could tell I didn't attend a liberal arts college." But nothing else negative. (Forgot...he also said afterward he felt some "apprehension" about telling personal stories in the small-group sessions planned. I reassured him he was welcome and would be liked and it was fine to "just be B." That doesn't mean my reassurance worked, of course....) He was referring with the "liberal arts" remark to how so many of the 16 people were nodding in recognition of major psychology names, like Brenae whatsit (vulnerability TED talk fame), Bettleheim, Rollo May, etc.

Anyway, we were committed to doing it together and though we forgot, had even talked about filling in our "timeline" charts last weekend. He's my partner as the structure is to tell your stories, get them down in a thematic way, divided by major transitions in your life, to your class partner.

Next session's this Monday. So, last night he calls and in a very Executive Tone I've heard him use and always been baffled by, as it's just kind of cold and detached, informed me that he has an opportunity to go to Florida and play golf with a friend and he's leaving Monday, has already booked his flight. And that he realizes that means he'll miss the second class but that's okay, I can take notes. And he's all kind of crisp and cold about it. When it sank in I realized I felt very disappointed. It's not that I couldn't come around to the outcome (say, if he'd said, I hate to do this but it's a special friend I haven't seen in forever and a really major chance that would mean a lot to me, do you think we could still benefit from the workshop if I miss the second session and would you forgive me for wanting to go?). I know for a fact that if he'd asked me about it that way, or even consulted me as though my feelings about it mattered, I'd probably have said...of course. It's not ideal to miss it but I can hear how much this getaway would mean to you. Please go.

But. The Tone. And the sense that it was like an executive handing down a decision to an employee or someone down the hierarchy, really really did not sit well.

I called him back. Didn't address The Tone but said in honesty, I'm disappointed. I'm thinking if you don't go I probably won't continue myself, because without my partner, there's not a lot of point for me. (I've done similar classes before.) But I do hope you have a good time. Asked him a couple generic questions just to express interest and his replies were, It's just a friend. It's in the Orlando area. Obviously didn't want to share anything about it other than that he is going.

I was hurt and angry about The Tone more than the outcome. It's not the end of the world if we don't do this workshop. But the way he announced it and the coldness (maybe because he knew he was breaking a commitment casually, and for...golf), really got me.

I was feeling pretty melty after our Valentine's evening but have whiplash from the next day. He's called since asking me to come out Saturday (I initially said yes) and then this morning, because of weather predictions, left a message to change it to tonight.

I just left him a message that I'd rather talk next week when he got back and to have a good trip. I mean that sincerely...I do want him to relax and enjoy his favorite sport. And I know I need some more time to evaluate this.

What's going on in my mind is the sudden recognition that this is A Pattern. Of making unilateral decisions about things that affect us both without talking to me about it. (Overriding or not considering or including me.) One example was our battles over our own trip. He offers 7 days away, I say (in December) not ready for that but would love a long weekend, two rooms, would that work?. He says Yes, I'm in! Then calls to tell me it's the 7-day thing and we need to do it because the availability changed and he'd be "very disappointed" if we don't go. Sorry, I'm not ready for that and it's not what we agreed to, and he backs down and when we go, we have a great time on our overnight. (But in there was also his unilateral decision to book ONE room instead of the two we'd agreed to, which he also had to "undo." And that caused me similar feelings and tension, the sense of being again over-ridden by a unilateral decision he made because that's what he wanted and I was just supposed to go along with it. I didn't and yay for me, but it is tiring to have to be so assertive All the Damn Time.)

 while back I asked B to share if he felt okay doing so, what were the fights with his wife about. (He'd referred to them fighting a lot, and it sounded intense.) The answer he gave me was that he always put work first, and as one example, he would promise repeatedly to be home by a particular time for a dinner she'd made, and just not do it...part of it was his compulsion to do more work or a feeling he just needed to do one more thing, etc. (Maybe part OCD stuff.) But the effect, I gathered, was that over and over he broke his promises to her. And it really messed them up.

That's why I'm thinking this is a flag. Mainly because of The Tone (which I think has to do with discomfort with what he's doing, as far as the relationship goes...he's retreating into a "cold executive" mode because he doesn't want to be challenged). It's a very dominant, detached and not pleasant thing to listen to.

It hurt my feelings and I also felt angry. I don't want to be talked to like an employee or an underling. And now I think I see that this is a place he'll go and a way he'll talk to the woman in his life.

I'm not into that. If I'm going to establish an intimate relationship or marriage at this chapter of life I'm damn well going to be an equal partner. And you know I've been worrying about power issues anyway, as they may relate to money. So I've got a new feeling of concern about The Executive.

Thanks for listening, y'all, so much. I will be on tenterhooks 'til I get your perspectives, which are so freaking valuable to me.

love,
Hops
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Thanks Tupps, I really am trying to do a better job of protecting myself this go-round. And being prepared, too.

IF there really is a defined trauma trying to become conscious for Amy, it would make sense that it would surface this way. There are clues starting to show up... in some of her ranting/ravings/babblings. But I'm not letting myself get too involved in trying to piece those together. Just keeping her focused on the concrete actions, of getting herself to where the "help" is. Part of my brain just automatically tries to do this... and it's a dangerous thing to do.

I'm trying to keep my brain too busy right now, to indulge. It could be years before Amy really gets down to the nitty-gritty of the issue - IF, she ever does - IF she really gets help.

I think you're right to protect yourself, Skep.  I know when I was having therapy and lots of weird stuff was going on for me - very strong emotions, physical flashbacks, lots of health related symptoms with no clear cause - we talked a lot about repressed memories/forgotten trauma and basically my T said the thing to focus on was dealing with the feelings and managing them as they came up, rather than focusing on trying to work out what was causing it.  It was good advice for me and maybe for you as well - not to focus on the why but to focus more on the here and now - and first part of that being looking after yourself in whichever way is best at the moment.  I hope A starts to get the help she needs but also hope that you're able to put yourself first and keep your own health at the forefront of your mind xx
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I hope you have a good day and happy distractions, Amber. You so deserve it.

You know, something I hear is that in a way, I wonder if you sometimes feel you ARE Amy's T, and would like to let go of that position?

A boundary thing to consider might be...what about if you don't call her and ask for information about the new T, or how the session went. I completely and totally understand why you'd be interested in knowing, but wonder if A might do better NOT reporting to her mother about this.

You could release your involvement in her deep stuff, which is really hers to heal. She may or may not be able to heal it with a T's help...but I do wonder how it might feel to have an authoritative and confident mother prepared to make summary or quality evaluations of an intimate, difficult process. If I had weak boundaries or were very ill it might be impossible to say No to expectations that I share T content, or "report" on that experience. But it's hard to imagine sharing it with a parent.

Could it be possible that A will do better in this situation if you do not involve yourself, other than paying for it if you want to? (And could it be possible that you will do better, too?)

I'm not sure and it could be a faulty intuition. I do loads of those.

Love to you,
Hops
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Change of pace day...

going over the mountain for a haircut, pick up new glasses, do a little shopping. I wish I'd been settled enough to get a massage scheduled... it's been TOO LONG again. And I really need my shoulders worked on. Next trip.

We'll see how many stops I make today, before I run for the hills again. LOL. Having lunch with my friend, it's a long weekend for her... she's always visiting me... and part of my wish to move back here, was to be able to visit HER and others for a change.

Amy meets a therapist today. It was either something she did/didn't do (don't know which) that meant she couldn't see the "bargain" counselor... and will get someone who charges a good bit more. I'm hoping that means they have deeper training too. I'll be checking in with her later to see how it went. Meanwhile, I'll be incommunicado on the road today.
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Hugs hon. This is a long rough road you're on. I hope hubby starts to put some weight back on and get his strength back.

You are taking care of you too, aren't you?
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Hi all you dear friends.....here who replied to me.....it means a lot to me......

Bill just completed twelve weeks of chemo......pretty tough on him...losing lots of weight, his hair and going through times of just complete exhaustion.
He will now go onto 3 to 12 months of hormone therapy.  It stops the production testosterone  which the caner feeds off of.  In three months another CT scan ...will tell us how the cancer is or is not doing. 
The beautiful part of all of this has been meeting other people with cancer who have such a good outlook,  good or bad in how the cancer is doing and their outlook.  A young mom with two small kids.....and only six months to live because of brain cancer.  Another mom age 46 with 3 kids and always a smile on her face.....we also realized in conversations her mother another NM.....so she calls me I am her sister with another mister.
These beautiful souls.....have made me see others in a different light....I love seeing them....I love being with them.....what a blessing in my life.
So yes this is a hard journey but one I feel their is hope along the way for my husband and these wonderful people.
Dr. Ben Chue.....research Oncologist Seattle, WA you are a wonderful doctor and one who has so much compassion for your patients.
Thank you friends...for you kind replies.... it means so much to me.......Love, Bettyanne
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Hi Friends.....

I am just sharing a website I was given by my therapist....as another tool to help us all on this journey.

               outofthefog.website

Name: Out of the fog

Hope it helps....Bettyanne
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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: This and That
« Last post by lighter on February 15, 2018, 05:43:15 PM »
Hi Tupp:

The 51% rule is about taking care of yourself as priority.... oxygen mask on you first sort if thing.  Both my girls are pretty good at it. 

About the Bahamas cottage.... I think basic repairs and replacement of windows, doors, shutters and new cabinets will make it easier to sell the cottage quickly.  There's value in the lot, but the house itself has value bc it's such a problem to get anything done on the island. 

This isn't my choice to have this property.  I didn't want the place anymore when we bought it than I want it now.  The plan is to sell ASAP.

  I'm less conflicted at this point.   I do my best, and that has to be enough.

Hope and Amber, thanks for the input.  It's been helpful while I try to figure out least painful options.

Lighter

 

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Thanks Tupps, I really am trying to do a better job of protecting myself this go-round. And being prepared, too.

IF there really is a defined trauma trying to become conscious for Amy, it would make sense that it would surface this way. There are clues starting to show up... in some of her ranting/ravings/babblings. But I'm not letting myself get too involved in trying to piece those together. Just keeping her focused on the concrete actions, of getting herself to where the "help" is. Part of my brain just automatically tries to do this... and it's a dangerous thing to do.

I'm trying to keep my brain too busy right now, to indulge. It could be years before Amy really gets down to the nitty-gritty of the issue - IF, she ever does - IF she really gets help.
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