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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: 2019 Farm Life
« Last post by sKePTiKal on January 23, 2019, 09:19:46 AM »
Big hug back to you Hops.

Hol and I had our first debrief last night. She's better off, in some ways, than I am. On the other hand I see some things she hasn't recognized yet... but I kept my mouth shut, for now.
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: 2019 Farm Life
« Last post by Hopalong on January 22, 2019, 03:05:19 PM »
Duh. Just re-read that it's a non-issue since H has your car. Sorry.

However, the same thinking applies though not to you...H should not be giving him a ride either because that continues her codependency.

If you see the same thing, YOU still can't be tasked with fixing H's codependency (if accurate). Because that puts you in the exact same position re. her. Not to worry. She'll get it in 10 years or so. Seriously. It's her path to carve and get and hike and figure out because, ime, any time someone else explains to me what I need to "get" it never takes. It's the long accumulation of my very own insights that help me grow. I can seek additional wisdom from books or people or Ts, but I gotta get all the way to it on my own.

I imagine this is a really tough line to navigate, but if you want to, you can do it. It's sound and healthy non-enmeshment and I believe that's where you are headed.

You've just had a big check-in about your own sense of self and health and boundaries and patterns and I know this--you will have awesome insights once you've had a chance to sit with it all and ponder in peace. The Amber brain and mind and heart know how to come 'round right.

fwiw, xxoo
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: 2019 Farm Life
« Last post by Hopalong on January 22, 2019, 02:13:48 PM »
Oy, babe. I feel for you and how fraught all this is. Just one small idea to offer.

Here's another opportunity to strengthen the boundaries muscles...again just a calm adult saying, No, I won't be doing that.

Hospitals have services, including community volunteers, hospital volunteers, and other resources for folks who are stuck. If bcase needs a ride from hospital to hotel, the hospital can and will arrange transportation for him. Hol doesn't need to expect you to continue the mommying (which "giving a ride" to him is), and you don't need to grant her request.

Picking him up and transporting him is you being unecessarily in his toxic presence, which is not wholesome for you, and Hol continung her rescue fantasy because one of her issues is difficulty stepping aside and allowing a friend to experience the natural consequences of their own choices.

You're no more responsible for his future transport than you were for his crisis. And it wouldn't be good for him to see you continuing the rescue now, through "a ride." It's a big world and he can learn how to ask the hospital to help him find a ride.

love and support,
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: 2019 Farm Life
« Last post by sKePTiKal on January 22, 2019, 11:50:01 AM »
Lunch break - c'mon SUN - I need to melt the ice on my steps.

I'm pretty angry at Holly; and it's complicated. I've made it clear to her that she lives here too and if she wants to invite people out here, thanks fine. I truly like most of her friends. Just keep things under control, follow our basic living rules - locking doors, turning off lights, etc. Clean up your own messes.

So, Christmas day she got the news that a friend in her circle had killed himself. Right off the bat, she was asked to help rehome the friend's Cane Corso, which is a very large mastiff. I did some research... finally OK'd a temporary arrangement... and then watch Knuckles hash it out with Steve's dog; Steve is Hol's new sweetie. I brought up a few things she might want to think about, re: the dog... and eventually the folks in the city worked it out. Non-issue.

The day AFTER Christmas, she got the SOS from basket-case friend... needed a place to stay; had been staying in a hostel after getting out of jail for non-payment of child support, after suddenly losing his job (which I suspect was due to his emotional disintegration.) Story was that ex was a manipulative, vindictive N... and I do know there are casualties of the system. I do understand people's need for safe space time to sort things out, too. So yes - I agreed to him staying here. [edit: first mistake; I didn't set a preliminary timeline]

Weekend of the 6th, Holly had 3 additional friends out for her birthday: her boss, her girlfriend who's dating him and her roommate. We got geared up to party... lots of stick to the ribs food, etc. By this time, I was already picking up vibes from basketcase that gave me concern. Boss also did, as did Hol's girlfriend. We conferred a bit and Boss said he felt this guy was taking advantage of Holly's soft spot for her friends. Boss knows Hol VERY WELL; they had had a relationship in the past. And by then, I was seeing it also.

Basically, what I've picked up about basketcase is that he needy in the extreme; is using Hol to regulate his emotions - because HE CAN'T. I watched the guy pick a fight with old friend of Hol's from Portland, who simply asked a factual question about basketcase's story. Accused friend2 of being pass-agg, condescending and patronizing... got extremely angry; stormed out; stormed BACK... and when I got between them, telling basketcase to "calm down", repeatedly... and physically blocking his projection of emotions... he persisted and didn't even HEAR me.

It was at that point, I made my position absolutely clear to him. I saw him distracting himself with a pretense of creating artwork from cigarette ashes, papers and dirt - and any other art supplies of mine he felt entitled to help himself to. He refused to abide by any regular hours, claiming insomnia and emotional distress. Holly and I were not in a position to help him any further and spending more time here would complicate the situation and only spiral down into something worse. [edit: Hol & I had already been searching for moments to even get this OUT between us; it had started with me feeling I wasn't allowed to have my own feelings; in my own house... because she was insisting I walk on eggshells around basketcase.]

It was HIS idea to go get help and so I strongly supported that. Hol was being told he was too scared to initiate the process (manipulating her compassion)... and so he was allowed to procrastinate on making a decision. And he triangulated between Hol & I, as well. One reason she's so angry at me and me at her right now. The night before he actually did leave, Hol managed to sprain her ankle and bruise her foot pretty good. And I'm pretty sure she's not telling me the truth about what happened just yet.

He's made SO MUCH CRAZY in my space, that I haven't been able to even put the basics of the story into words. I'm still shaking and he's been gone 2-1/2 days now. I've taken it out on my woodpile; the snow; the ice (he sure didn't) because apparently explaining to him that the woodboxes on the stoves are 2 different lengths was "abusive"... and I'm getting the same crap back from Holly at the moment when I say the usual mom things... expressing concern, reminders, etc.

Because apparently, I'm not allowed to control conditions in my own space if they conflict with hers.

And we WILL have this out, but not just yet. It's still too raw. Friend2 expressed his worry that Hol was letting basketcase make her responsible for his emotions, which is one of the issues that were unresolvable from her relationship with Matt. I don't want to imply she's responsible for MINE either, and I do need to be able to verbalize exactly the situation as I see it. Fierce, whispered, 2 minute conversations were ALL we were permitted because basket-case was extremely quiet, sneaky and perhaps somewhat justifiably paranoid. We couldn't get any privacy in our own home.

Hol had asked me to pick up basketcase at hospital over the mountain today, if he's released... and take him to a hotel, since she ASSUMED I wouldn't let him come back here. I let her know, that 3 days wasn't enough for him to get his shit together and NO, he wasn't coming back here. We'll see if she continues to mother him through a situation she isn't in any way responsible for, or if she'll admit her superhero cape has limitations. She took my car today to take friend2 to airport, so I'm not going anywhere.

She clearly doesn't want me to point how she's been self-medicating to deal with her end of this BS either. Not at this point in time.

I'm not sure how this is going to turn out yet, but I sure don't need to keep rehersing everything that happened, how I felt, over & over again... so hopefully, putting it down, will let me get some distance away from it.
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: 2019 Farm Life
« Last post by sKePTiKal on January 22, 2019, 09:21:45 AM »
Thanks Hops -  taking it easy and physical activity (dealing with weather) - are how I'm dealing with it. Letting it SIT for awhile too... I still feel elevated hypervigilance... but it's significantly down from what it was. Letting it sit, to give myself time to understand just what is going on in that situation - between friend & Hol - and my reactions, and why... before Hol and I start discussing it.
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: 2019 Farm Life
« Last post by Hopalong on January 21, 2019, 09:44:02 PM »
Might take a week of extra rest and
taking things easy, emotionally, hon.

Hope you feel the peace returning fast.

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: 2019 Farm Life
« Last post by lighter on January 21, 2019, 07:56:50 PM »
Thanks for the update, Amber

Hol's done her best by her friend, rescued her sweetie, and now has time to reflect. 

I hope that's the end of THAT lesson.


Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: 2019 Farm Life
« Last post by sKePTiKal on January 21, 2019, 08:30:06 AM »
She got back home about 5 pm. We all went to bed early, and finally got some sleep last night.

Nurse wanted to ask Hol some questions too, so she had to stick around and also provide moral support to her friend. His plan is, once the 3 day evaluation is over, is to enter a residential counseling facility... and go from there. Steve, Hol's sweetie came over last night with his big lab - a friend of Knuckles - but he got stuck in the ditch leaving this morning.

Holly & Helga (her new jeep) has already freed him and gotten him on his way this morning.
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: 2019 Farm Life
« Last post by Hopalong on January 20, 2019, 06:04:26 PM »
DITTOS. Fingers crossed, light aloft.

Why would he say that about Hol?

I'm shocked by that (along with the whole story).
And so glad you have extricated yourself.

Seems the I-gotta-fix-this-person gene runs through you both.
It's great that you've drawn a boundary with H about who comes to your farm.

xxoo keep us posted...
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board / Re: 2019 Farm Life
« Last post by lighter on January 20, 2019, 05:00:07 PM »
Yikes, and yikes, Amber:  I don't like the sound of Hol traveling with this unsteady fellow, having been ejected from her/your home, without a plan he feels great about. 

I don't like the idea of his being angry either.

Please let me know when Hol's dropped him, and back on the road.

I'll breath a heavy sigh of relief. 

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