Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Anonymous on February 04, 2005, 08:46:41 AM

Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2005, 08:46:41 AM
How about a thread where people can talk about anything, on or off topic?

Could be fun, once in awhile, or sort of purging, or really therapeutic?

People might connect and/or relate about parts of their lives that they wish to share (for the joy of sharing rather than the relief of releasing)?

Might help enhance the voice?

What are your thoughts?

PS:  So how about those omega 3's and 6's?  I eat 'em to enhance health.
       Anyone else?
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2005, 09:13:20 AM
Co-enzyme Q10 (at least 30 mg a day) for gum repair, fast gum growth after dental work, plus they release energy from food, love 'em. Good for skin too.

And chocolate. and Gran Tempranillo red wine, £2.99 at Sainsburys right now, lovely stuff :D
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2005, 09:18:44 AM
Introverts love Descartes : I think therefore I am, all I can know is in my thoughts.

Extraverts love the Empiricists : all we can know is what we sense in the external world.

(Note, introverts will say 'I', extraverts will say 'we'!)

Major philosophical divide sorted. Job done!  copyright 'Portia' :roll:
Title: Anything
Post by: Portia on February 04, 2005, 09:44:22 AM
good to get this one out about once every six months:

Masochist:    "Hurt me!"

Sadist:   "No....."
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2005, 10:00:51 AM
Hey!

I used nuts and flax seed oil for those omega 3's and 6's.  I need 'um for my joints...keep things from squeaking.

Don't know much about co-enzyme Q10 but I am curious?  (now that you've got my gums and skin hooked).

Chocolate and red wine are two of my staples but there is no place around here, that I know of, that serves 'em up for that price.  Lucky you!!

I may be an introvert because I say I a lot but I think I do it because when I say we, it feels like I'm assuming for other people and I try not to assume because I dislike when others assume stuff about me.  I do like to include other people, the more the merrier kind of deal, so it is possible that I'm an introverted extrovert?  Or else I don't have a clue what the difference really is?

And Portia, I'm glad you got that out! :D

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Portia on February 04, 2005, 10:07:25 AM
Intro or Extra? Find out at: http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

INFJ / INTJ depending on which is in charge, heart or head.

which Jung are you.....?
Title: Anything
Post by: Learning on February 04, 2005, 10:30:33 AM
Hey Portia,

I'm currently considering myself an INFJ in training.  I test to be INTJ...but I'm working on following my feelings more. :wink:

Guests,

I don't know too much about Coenzyme Q10 but I'll look into it.  For my omega 3 & 6 I go with flax meal in my oatmeal and baked goods.  I also like to add a little fish oil to my breakfast smoothies.  Yum!

Chocolate is primary to a happy day, but I leave the red wine alone. :)

Thanks for starting a fun thread!
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2005, 10:38:05 AM
According to the test, I'm INFJ.

How about you?

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2005, 10:41:11 AM
Currently iNTj, was iStP some 6 years ago. At that time, I was deeply embroiled in several creative projects at once (recording, photo work, writing), so that makes sense, in that it was all about the "doing" and "execution". Now, I'm in a period of deep introspection, so this new designation makes sense also, as it is directed toward 'how things work".

Both share the seclusiveness component, and "tools" for the iStP can be considered analogous to "ideas" for the iNTj.

Interesting - I haven't visited this idea in quite some time. Thanks for bringing it back to my atention.

T
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2005, 10:41:20 AM
Hi Learning:

You'll have to teach me.

The simple thought of anything fish in a smoothie makes me gag!

Is it really Yum???

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Learning on February 04, 2005, 10:51:09 AM
Hi GFN,

Yes it really is!  The fish oil I buy is pricey but has a nice lemon smell to it (I hate fishy odors).  I mix a tablespoon with a cup of soymilk and a bunch of frozen berries (or whatever frozen fruit we have).  Sometimes I add protein powder.  It really does taste good.  

Carlson's Fish Oil or Cod Liver Oil (I know, I know...sounds gross) are both good.

Ciao,
Learning
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on February 04, 2005, 10:58:32 AM
Hey, I am INOEx3 (in need of explanations) on all those letter labels.
Can't relate on the fishy stuff (vegetarian).
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2005, 11:35:21 AM
Thanks Learning!  Thanks!

It sounds very nutritional.  It's the taste (idea) of fish being the over powering of it all that isn't sitting in my head right and is making me think barf thoughts. :shock:

Does it taste like fish at all?

Fish oil is supposed to help with so many problems.   I know people who take it but I haven't had the guts. (I really don't like the taste of fish--yuck!).

If the taste is hidden behind all those berries, and I decide to take the leap, do I buy flavoured soy milk?  Thanks again.

Hi Mum:  those letters are the results of an online test to determine whether a person is an introvert or extravert.  See page one for the link. :arrow: (reverse that arrow!)

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2005, 12:00:00 PM
Hi GFN,

Aahhh...yes I was worried about the taste at first too.  Actually, they add a lemon flavor.  So it tastes pretty good.  In the smoothie, I don't even taste the lemon.  You're right, the berries overpower it. :)

I've used just about every type of soymilk available.  Vanilla flavored is good.  I personally like a chocolate/cherry mix (but my h doesn't).  I also like just plain soymilk.

If you try it, let me know what you think.

Learning
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2005, 12:29:30 PM
K learning.

I'm going for groceries this afternoon and I going to buy soymilk (step one). 8)

I've read so much about the value of soy.  I've tried tofu, which I just can't seem to get a liking for.  No matter what I do to it, it just doesn't seem like food to me (it's rubber something or slippery slimey stuff or chunky junk, in my brain).  I do eat soy beans smothered in salsa (mixed with brown rice) and not only is it an enjoyable meal, for me, but it sticks to my ribs really well!

But I've never tied the milk and I think it might be an idea to develop a taste for it, first (and without fish anything...it doesn't give me thoughts of hurling!! :shock: ).

I'll let you know when I brave the health food store for the fish oil!!
 :D

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: bunny on February 04, 2005, 12:49:15 PM
I love edamame (soy) beans.
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on February 04, 2005, 01:17:13 PM
Yes!  Edamame soy beans are the best.  My vegetarian-who-really-don't-like vegetables kids love them!  I throw them (shelled and cooked) on spaghetti and marinara sauce.
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2005, 01:18:11 PM
Wow!  edamame eh?  Learn something new every day!  Thanks bunny!

So, on my way out the door, since the topic seems healthy, here's something to enhance your health (by way of exposing your gums, teeth and belly to a bit of freshly sent organic stimiluli):

20 Ways to Maintain a Healthy Level of Sanity

 1. At lunchtime, sit in your parked car with sunglasses on and point a hairdryer at passing cars. See if they slow down.

2. Page yourself over the intercom. DON'T disguise your voice.

3. Everytime someone asks you to do something ask, "Do you want fries
 with that?"

4. Put your garbage can on your desk and label it "In".

5. Put Decaf in the coffee maker for 3weeks. Once everyone has gotten
 over their Caffeine addictions, switch to Espresso.

6. In the Memo field of all your checks write, "For Sexual Favours."

7. Finish all your sentences with, "In accordance with the Prophecy."

8. don't use any punctuation or capital letters

9. As often as possible, Skip rather than walk.

10. Ask people what sex they are. Laugh hysterically after they
answer.

11. Specify that your drive-through order is "To-Go".

12. Sing along at the opera.

13. Go to a poetry recital, and ask why the poems don't rhyme.

14. Put mosquito netting around your work area and play tropical
sounds all day.

15. Five days in advance, tell your friends you can't attend their
 party because "You're not in the mood."

16. Have your co-workers address you by your wrestling name, like,
 "Rock Hard".

17. When money comes out of the ATM scream, "I WON! I WON!"

18. When leaving the Zoo, start running for the parking lot yelling,
 "Run for your lives, THEY'RE LOOSE!"

19. Tell your children over dinner, "Due to the economy, We are going
 to have to let one of you go."

And, the final way to keep a healthy level of sanity.........

20. Copy, and send this to someone to make them smile.... It's called
 Therapy!!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on February 04, 2005, 01:24:01 PM
GFN: love your post of 20 great ideas.  It occured to me that I actually see almost all of those behaviors in my job in an elementary school.  It's just kids instead of adults doing them... those kids are onto something!
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2005, 09:07:07 AM
I think I see what you mean, mum.

A good old deep belly laugh is something many kids do frequently (and acting silly to get others to laugh is pretty typical, don't you think?).

Sometimes I wonder if that becomes a little more difficult for adults because we have so many more serious things to attend to?  Sometimes people get caught up in all work and no play?  People may forget the benefits of a good laugh or just kind of forget how, because it's been so long?  When one is suffering, not much seems funny, right?

It's harder to laugh when stuff isn't going well in our lives.  I know I have to try harder to get a good laugh, when I am feeling low.  I love a good book that gets me laughing out loud or a good comedy show or movie.  I love the funny stuff my friends send or that I find on the net.  I love it when people make me laugh.

I think laughing, once in awhile, is an important way to...take a break...from the stress of whatever I am dealing with (the serious stuff).  It helps me to relax, which is important physically (I tend to carry my stress in my kneck and I uncontiously make a tight fist with my right hand--very weird--and no, I don't punch anything or anybody, I just make this fist and I'm not even aware of it until I look down and there it is--does anyone else do weird stuff like that?) and mentally.

Anyhow...some of those ways to maintain a healthy level of sanity...gave me a good giggle, especially when I picture them for a little in my mind.  I do say:  "Would you like fries with that?" fairly often and it usually makes people smile.  I have joked around a lot with my children, over the years, especially when they were being stubborn or just feeling grouchy or when they were frustrated and it seemed like a good thing.   I think it's good to just act silly, like a child, with your kids, sometimes.  I think it helps to sort of get into their world.

In adult relationships, a good laugh can "break the ice", snap us out of a bad mood, and be great entertainment.  We need fun in our lives too.  All pain and no fun (sort of like all work and no play) probably won't make us very happy and I don't think it's very healthy either.

In accordance with the prophecy.

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2005, 10:18:52 AM
Hey Learning!

I bought the soy milk, made myself a smoothie and it was wonderful!!

It wasn't like the punishment I thought it might be!!

It was truly delicious and I am now HOOKED!!!

This is a great thing!  I bought low fat, vanilla.  9 gms of protein per cup and only 100 cal!!  Packed with vitamins and other good stuff too!

What a deal!  Love it. Love it.  Love it.!!!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2005, 10:30:53 AM
GFN and All!

Glad we started this thread.  I must take exception to the health food though.........LOL.   Loved the 20 sanity remarks GFN.  Copied and printed for further distribution!

My fav foods.

Cheetos, chocolate, merlot wine, hamburgers, chili (making some for the Super Bowel)  now that's a group of N's LOL.  I probably will try to cut back and try the soy milk smoothies with fish oil.  Is it really good?  Do you put fruit or anything else in it? Patz
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on February 05, 2005, 10:35:02 AM
Hi, GFN
I think you are right about getting just plain silly,  I tend to forget that...and my teenage children save the crazy stuff for their friends, mostly. I notice it is harder to crack me up when I'm going through a rough patch.  My daughter notices I am tense before I do (look how you are gripping the steering wheel!).  I used to bite the inside of my lip when I was tense or worried.  I try now to consiously let go of tension....although my neck would not always agree I am successful, either.

Before my son could drive himself, he and his friends would turn up classical music extremely loud and at a stop light, roll down the windows and start dancing and hopping up and down frenetically like it was serious head banging music just to get people in the nearby cars to laugh.  I could barely drive I would laugh so hard.  

Joni Mitchell once wrote (forget which song): "laughing and crying, it's all the same release".
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on February 05, 2005, 10:38:06 AM
So this thread is rather stream of consiousness, or unconsiousness, right?
Cheetos got me thinking about  a guy I dated.....I thought once he was like eating cheetos for dinner.  Seems like a good idea at the time.....
Title: Anything
Post by: Learning on February 07, 2005, 01:28:50 PM
Hi GFN,

I'm so glad you liked the smoothie.  It's one of those things in life that is good for you and yummy.  I'm always searching for treasures like that.

Thanks for posting the 20 sanity savers.  I LOL while I read them.  I agree with you...sometimes we just need to laugh.  Recently, it seemed that the s**t was piling so high that all I could do is laugh.  And so I have been, for weeks now! :lol:  It feels pretty good.

Mum,

I think Joni Mitchell was on to something.

I always twinge when I hear someone say they are dating a person just for the fun of it (kinda like your Cheetos thought)...I started a relationship that way once and 4 years later I had a restraining order against the guy.  How did yours work out?

Patz,

The smoothie is really good.  I like almost any kind of frozen fruit in it.  I'm kinda an 80/20 person.  I try to eat healthy 80% of the time and the rest...well, give me chocolate anything and I'm fine.

Learning
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2005, 01:59:46 PM
People's Parties, it is - from Court and Spark.

All the people at this party
they've got alot of style
they've got stamps of many countries
they've got passport smiles
some are friendly, some are cutting
some are watching it from the wings
some are standing in the center
givin' to get something

Photo-Beauty gets attention
and her eye-paint's runnin' down
she's got a rose in her teeth
and lampshade crown
one minute she's so happy
then she's cryin' on someone's knee
sayin' "laughin' and cryin',
you know it's the same release"


I told you when I met you
I was crazy
cry for us all, Beauty -
Cry for Eddie in the corner
thinkin' he's nobody
and Jack behind his joker
and stone-cold Grace behind her fan
and me in my frightened silence
thinkin'I don't understand

I feel like I'm sleepin
can you wake me
you seem to have a broader sensibility
I just livin' on nerves and feelings
with a weak and a lazy mind
and comin' to People's Parties
stumblin' deaf, dumb and blind

I wish I had more sense of humour
keeping the sadness at bay
throwin' the lightness on these things
laughin' it all away...

Laughin' it all way.


Followed by:

"Again and Again
tha same situation
for so many years
tethered to a ringing telephone
in a room full of mirrors

A pretty girl in your bathroom
checking out her sex apppeal...
I asked myself when you said you loved me:
"Do you think this can be real?"

So I sent up my prayer
wondering where it had to go
with heaven full of astronauts
and the Lord on death row
and the millions of the lost and lonely ones calling in clamor
to be found
caught in the struggle for higher achievement
and the search for love
that sticks around

You've had lots of lovely women
now you turn your gaze to me
weighing the beauty and the imperfection
to see if I'm worthy
Like the church, like a cop,
like a mother
you want me to be truthful
but sometimes you turn it on me like a weopon though
and I need your approval

So I send up my prayer
wondering who's there to hear
I said, "Send me somebody
who's strong, and somewhat sincere"
With the millions of the lost and lonely ones callin' out
to be released
Caught in my struggle for higher achievments
and my search for love
that don't seem to cease..."
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on February 07, 2005, 02:35:06 PM
Learning:
that (cheetos) relationship did not work, thankfully.  It was right after my divorce, I was in the 'divorce crazies" and that guy was not someone I am proud to say I went out with.....I was not me then, not at all.
Someone told me relationships that only would happen on vacation are called "spam" (you'll only eat spam if you're camping).
Calling anyone food isn't too nice, though, although Sarah McLaughlin describing "love...... better than chocolate" would be an exception.
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2005, 05:11:09 PM
Hi all:

Yeppers, Learning, you doing the 80-20 thing is a darn good example to us all!!  I'd say I'm about 60-40 (healthy to non-healthy food choices) about now and trying to increase the 60.  I think I might die if I didn't eat SOME chocolate sometimes so I doubt I will ever never indulge!!!  I lovve it tooo much!!
But.....now I can make a chocolate banana smoothie (sometimes) and it will be good for me, as you say, a treasure!  I mushed up a banana and zipped it up with a cuppa soymilk and it's really good too!   Soon I'll be slipping in a bit of vodka and khalua and enjoying a healthy White Russian!!! 8)

Yes....laughing is good.  Keep it up!  (not that I want the s**t in your life to keep piling up or anything).  Hopefully soon you can laugh at how the pile fell down and went splat eh?

So Mum!  Cheetos?  Spam??  Are you meeting these people in the grocery store??  Mine were more like Tide and Bounce, but not found anywhere near a laundry mat.

Hey Patz!  Let us know if you get hooked on smoothies!  Seems to me there must be zillions of combinations of stuff one could mix with soy milk to make yummy smoothies?  I'm thinking I could use it to replace milk in many recipes and I bet nobody will notice.  I'm gonna bake some healthy muffins and use it and see.  Haven't talked myself into putting it on my cereal though yet.

Hi ya Guest!  I really liked the poem you posted, "People's parties".  I've never thought about laughing and crying being similar releases before but that makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?  I wonder if the person's prayer was answered?

I watched "Passion of the Christ" last night for the first (and probably the last) time.  Whew!  Pretty gory yucky stuff!  Even if you're not a particularly religious person, it sure shows what people were like back then.  It makes me smile to think our society has come a great distance and we now have humane ways of punishing (and determining guilt).   It's definately a movie that makes me crave something nice....like chocolate...or a smoothie afterward.  Induces emotional eating.

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Learning on February 08, 2005, 05:18:36 PM
Thanks Guest for the lyrics...wow...I'm not familiar with JJ's music...she really has a way of saying things.  

Hi Mum-  

Good to hear that you were describing a vacation relationship.  Sometimes vacations are a great time to experiment with being someone else.  I'm glad you were able to find a way to distract yourself during a hard time.  Hopefully you had fun! :)

Hi GFN, Oh dear...I wasn't trying to be an example at all...just trying to say that I don't eat healthy all the time.  I think I'm a work in progress.  Maybe 80/20 isn't exact...in any case...I have great intentions!   :wink:

Yep GFN, the pile is getting smaller because I am walking away from it.  It is still there, but as I get farther away it seems smaller to me.  I think the laughter helps with that.  

I haven't been able to follow all the threads here...but I have read some of your story GFN...I really hope you find some relief from this person who is a problem for you.  You really seem like a kind, caring person who deserves the best.  Take Care...

Learning
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on February 08, 2005, 09:02:41 PM
Learning: yeah, "cheetos" was a distraction all right, but self hatred dogged me the whole time ...Kind of like drinking to escape yourself...dating guys I am not really interested in to escape myself, same thing.
I got through it, thanks, that was a long time ago.  I am lucky to have been reunited with the man who was my love more than 2 decades ago.
I wish everyone could find this kind of love....in my case it was lost, then found....or I guess never really lost at all.
Sticking with the food analogies:
"Ice Cream" by Sarah Mc Laughlin does a pretty good job describing it
(of course, her voice singing it is most profound):

Your love is better than ice cream.
better than anything else that I've tried
and your love is better than ice cream
everyone here knows how to fight
and it's a long way down
it's a long way down
it's a long way down
to the place where we started from.

Your love is better than chocolate
better than anything else that I've tried
and your love is better than chocolate
everyone here knows how to cry
and it's a long way down.....
to the place where we started from.
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 09, 2005, 05:12:59 PM
Hi Learning:

I admire your 80 / 20 example anyway, even if it isn't exact.  I am trying to aim for those numbers, or at least, I have great intentions too. :D

I'm glad the pile is getting smaller and you're walking away from it and that you are using laughter to help with the trip.  I really like your description.....I can picture this steaming pile of stuff, shrinking and shrinking, and sliding further and further away, getting smaller and smaller.  Soon it will dry up and disappear!!! :lol:  Let the sun shine!!!

Thankyou for your kind words, Learning.  You seem the same and I'm sure there are lot's of people here who are too, and who deserve the best, including you.   I hope things are working out for you in your life.

Hey Mum!  That is a great song, isn't it?  I love her voice.

Icecream (cheetos), when what is really needed is a nourishing soy milk smoothie, eh? (but it's so hard to resist the icecream and cheetos, sometimes, isn't it?  We are only human!).   It's like trying to cure a fever with coffee.  Sort of like trying to build something proper with inadequate pieces, or like trying to move a mountain of stuff with a little dinky dump truck.

Stepping Stones

I struggled to move boulders
And many an obstacle
Out of my way.
I wore myself out
Pressing against them,
Pushing in vain;
Then wept at my own inadequacy
And their relentless strength.

And then, one spring morning,
I listened to the birds and felt refreshed
Watching their trusting flight
Above the dangers and the discontents.
"Oh, to have wings," I prayed.
"But you have feet." the answer came.
"Were they not meant to climb?
And hands, are they not able to cling?
I have put stepping stones for you
and rocky promontories fitted to your hand.
Look up and scale the heights."

And lo! my obstacles,
Which I had tried to shove out of my way,
Were stones to climb upon
Out of the marshy bog.
And from each one another came to view,
And none of them was singly hard to reach.
And when they seemed too steep,
I stretched my hand above
To feel it close upon a firm, strong aid,
And laughed to think I was so blind
A few short suns before.

                                Gertrude Helen Crawford

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2005, 08:57:11 AM
Hi Mum,

Sarah's voice is magical.  I don't know if I've heard this song before, but the ice cream imagery (or tastery) is great.  I am so glad that you have this love in your life.  Your happiness is contagious!

GFN,

Thanks for the poem.  Sometimes it is all about perspective, isn't it?

Take Care,
Learning
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2005, 08:07:16 PM
Hello all:

Ya!  Learning!  There are so many magical voices, like Sarah's, out there!  They keep me sane.  They keep my spirit healthy.  They even flush stuff out sometimes...like pain...or joy.  Bless those magical voices!

Re: perspective.  There are as many as there are people alive.  And the more we gather, the richer we become, in a way.  People try to see eachothers, sometimes.  But our own is the one that often grips us.  Our view can change too, when we decide to let it.  Some have a very narrow one.  Deeply entwined with our beliefs, our perspective evolves.

  Japanese proverb:
Quote
Vision without action is a daydream. Action without vision is a nightmare.


Cheers to all who are trying to act with vision!!! :D

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: CHICKSQUIP on February 11, 2005, 11:29:16 PM
I appreciate the observations about personality types.  Here is a site I haven't seen before.  Interesting!


http://www.ptypes.com/correspondence.html

chicksquip
Title: Anything
Post by: bludie on February 12, 2005, 08:50:13 AM
So cool to hear there are other Joni Mitchell fans on this site. She was my absolutely favorite artist in the 70s/early 80s. The Court and Spark album virtually saved my sanity the summer I become legally emancipated. I played "Free Man in Paris" many times each day. Have never been to Paris but vow to get there in the next couple of years.

Love this thread. It's fun. Thanks to all.

Best,

bludie
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on February 12, 2005, 09:14:19 AM
Hey, Bludie:  I used to sing "Blue" into my guitar box through the strings (because I really sucked at playing it, but it sounded soooo cool into the hollow!)  I am probably only slightly younger, because as I recall, it was the hide in my room album!
Just read a very interesting interview with her and gosh, was it Elvis Costello? I have a brain like a sieve for name details, but it was very interesting/political.....was it in Vanity Fair or Rolling Stone?  
Were you also a Ricki Lee Jones fan (she seemed an natural progression from Joni Mitchell for me).  Her latest is awesome (last year, maybe?) and "Ugly Man" is scathing politically.
Speaking of politics/music, I just heard an interview with Steve Earl.....lamenting the lack of power music has politically, compared to the sixties....his new CD is such a statement.
Have a great day.
Title: Anything
Post by: bludie on February 12, 2005, 09:34:47 AM
Hello dear mum,
YES! Ricki Lee Jones was my favorite artist in the 80s. Saw her in concert twice. "We Belong Together" was soul food. Unfortunately it also helped me romanticize my proclivity toward incompatible men.  :oops: But if I ever find my true-healthy-have-it-together partner, this would be our song. Or at least my song in regard to him/us.

Other favorite female artists: Aretha, Tina Turner, Norah Jones, Amy Mann, Sarah Vaughan, Diana Krall, Suzanne Vega, Annie Lenox....

Best,

bludie
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on February 12, 2005, 10:23:31 AM
Bludie: we should share records (oops, old school) I mean CD's.  Saw Norah Jones in concerts....she is so genuine.
Title: Anything
Post by: bludie on February 12, 2005, 10:27:52 AM
:P I had to correct my post because I was thinking, like you mum, albums and not CDs. Would LOVE to see Norah Jones in concert. Something my daughter and I agree on musically (for a change - I'm just not into rap)  :D

Best,

bludie
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 16, 2005, 10:14:38 AM
Hi all:

From the past.....some of my favorites are Elton John and Genesis.  Then, Supertramp and Queen.  And Led Zep, Pink Floyd and such.  Those were the wild and crazy days!!! 8)

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on February 16, 2005, 10:44:55 AM
GFN: the hilarious thing for me is that my son, the musician, is getting into all the classic "retro" stuff you are talking about.  Now I'm the expert, and he thinks maybe once upon a time I was cool.  Ha....his friends think I'm cool now.....but as his mom, I simply can't be!
OH....but I'm not the "cool mom" from the movie "Mean Girls" (did you see that?  what a riot...a scary and scathing riot)  Tina Fey (wrote it) is so sharp!
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 16, 2005, 10:58:10 AM
Yes Cool Mum!!!

Not long ago my daughter told me:  "Mom!  There's a really cool new band called the "Stones".  Have you heard of them?"

Ever since then, I guess I'm pretty cool and expert myself!  It feels weird to be considered cool by my kid.  Does it feel that way for you?  I mean, I'm used to being the mom who drives everybody everywhere, who makes mean cheese cake, who is strict about homework and curfews, and who they come to with a problem or just to talk.  I guess, I'm used to being.....just mom.  But cool?? 8)
Whooo!  Too much!  So do I have start dressing cool too?  Do I have to know the coolest stuff to be real cool?  Too much pressure.  I usually say...."Ya.  I'm as cool as an old mom can get.  But you're a much cooler kid!".  It is nice....I admit.....to be considered somewhat cool.  Better than:  "The b*^#+"ch" or "The old lady" (as I've heard some call their moms).  :shock:

Quote
....the movie "Mean Girls" (did you see that?


Nope but definately another one to add to my "gotta see" list.

This past weekend, I did go and see:  "Meet the Fockers".

OMG!  I cannot express how hilarious that movie is.  We were just about rolling on the floor!  Not for kids but truly funny.  I'd go see it again and I don't often say that about a movie.  :lol:  :D  :lol:  :D

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on February 16, 2005, 02:36:30 PM
GFN: yup, saw "meet the Fockers" too.  I did think it was funny, really funny. But the Ben Stiller character is such a putz, as he was in the last movie, it bugged me, but the parents were hilarious.  Strange to see such monumental actors in something so silly, huh?

On being "cool": All through elementary school, my kids went to my school, where I am the art teacher....everybody likes art, sooooo.... I guess that makes me cool, right?  The kids I teach who can't stand me are the kids whose behavior I won't put up with, so mostly, the kids like me.  It is just extrapolation (sp?) that those kids think I must be "cool" to have as a mom too. I think my kids fill them in on what it's like to live with the "image".  

Students are funny...they think whatever you do here is all you do (are you going to paint pictures this weekend? )  and if they see us (teachers) out of context, it's mind blowing for them (teacher's shop for groceries???).
Because of my job (I tell the kids it's in my contract) I get to dress pretty much however I want...so I do!  So I guess that's cool too, except that now, as my daughter matures, she really has opinions on what I wear ("but I like that, how could you buy it?").  Hard to shop lately.  Unless it's expensive, it's hard to find cool stuff that doesn't look like "art teacher/hippie mumus" or little tart!
Jeans are a staple.  Always ok.
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 18, 2005, 09:47:03 AM
Hi Mum and everyone:

Quote
Strange to see such monumental actors in something so silly, huh?


Isn't it though?  I would never have imagined them in those roles but wow!!!  They did a great job!!!  Really a great movie for lots of laughs eh?

Quote
Students are funny...they think whatever you do here is all you do (are you going to paint pictures this weekend? ) and if they see us (teachers) out of context, it's mind blowing for them (teacher's shop for groceries???).


So true!  I remember thinking this way myself, as a kid.  I remember seeing one of my teachers skating at the ice rink, with her family, and thinking:  "Wow!  She has a family?  They go skating together?  That's so weird!"

Quote
...it's hard to find cool stuff that doesn't look like "art teacher/hippie mumus" or little tart!


LOL!!  :D  Ya....go...go mumus!!!  I love it!   Conversation in the teacher lounge:  "Did you see what that hippie tart teacher is wearing this morning??"

"Ya......what a little go-go mumus!!!"

There's got to be a happy medium between what's cool to kids and staff alike.  That must be a real challenge to locate???

I'm lucky.  No one to impress.  I can wear what I like when I like and I do.  I don't think I dress the least bit cool.  I go for practical and comfy.  I feel more productive that way.  That and my smoothies!!!

It sounds like you have a really enjoyable, rewarding job.  Teaching kids art has got to be a happier thing than teaching rocket science?  Most kids like art because at least it is a break from the routine and a way to have a bit of fun.

When I was a kid, my artistic abilities were on stop.  I think I was too shy to really express anything by way of art.  Maybe it was too frightening a risk?  I didn't think anyone would like it.  I always got a "C" in art.  As an adult, I have explored in this area a little more and created a few really unique projects.  They look "ok" to me but some people have said that I have real talent.

I think everyone has artistic talent (some more than others).  Art is such a great way to express feelings and ideas and one I really had not considered much use until not too long ago.  I'm glad it's still taught in school and there are teachers like you around to teach it.  I bet you enjoy your job?
   
GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on February 18, 2005, 06:13:20 PM
GFN: you just had a bad art teacher....                                                

My own mom and dad came to watch me teach 20 years ago, not long before my dad died.  I can tell you it was a magical day for me.  My dad was very creative, but my mom never felt that way about herself.  The greatest compliment I ever got was that day, when my mom said, "I would have enjoyed life so much more if you had been my art teacher when I was a kid".
She told me about the ONE experience she had that closed her down, artistically for good> she was in elementary school and she painted a black house.  The teacher held it up and sarcastically announced "nobody has a black house, this is wrong!"  And that was it, she decided then and there she couldn't draw/paint etc.  How sad.  But she went on to be an athlete and a mother to nine children adn an amazing person despite feeling incompetent in art!  My personal goal is for no kids to EVER feel they CAN"T in my classroom.  
Currently my mom lies in a nursing home, her body and mind failing slowly but surely... I fly to see her next week and I will bring up how much that meant to me.... she still finds great joy in her children and reliving good moments with them.  thanks for reminding me!
As far as loving my job: well it is a job, and they have to pay me to do it, but I get to stay within my passion and that's not so bad.  Kids can wear you down, though, and some of their parents are the worst....and the direction education is taking right at the moment is scary, but hey, the pendulum will swing again.
thanks for asking.  Have a great day.  I actually will be painting this weekend!!!
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on February 23, 2005, 10:23:11 AM
Hi Mum and everyone:

Mum, I hope you had a lovely week end painting!  I've been sick with a cold for the last few days but starting to get the wind back in my sails now.  It's amazing how a cold can drain my energy so well.  It must be age because when I was younger it didn't do that.  Oh well....I'm feeling better now and glad it was just a cold.

I have to say, I really love reading your posts Mum.  You seem like such a down to earth person.  I'm sorry to hear that your mom is failing.  Has she been in the home long?  It's so hard to see a loved one suffer.  It must be worse to be so far away?  I hope your visit with her will be a comfort to both of you.  I bet she'll be glad that you remember her story about the black house and how much her comment meant to you.  I'm glad that you have such a relationship with your mom that you are able to tell her those things.  That is so nice to hear.
Quote

GFN: you just had a bad art teacher....


I don't know about that because I had several art teachers over the years.  I think I was a bit like your mom in that I just didn't think I had any ability (but I don't know if I can blame it on any one teacher).  I do get what you mean though, that my art teachers might have instilled the belief that I did....have ability....had they had the insight you have.  So I guess they were not the best art teachers.  I don't think I tried to do my best in art either because I didn't think I had it.  So why bother?  I'm so glad to hear that your goal is:

Code: [Select]
...for no kids to EVER feel they CAN"T in my classroom.

That is so encouraging for them.  And they will greatly benefit by having such an experience in your class.  Way to go Mum!!!  All systems need more teachers who give that message to kids.

I remember in grade 10, I had a geography teacher who was just there for the money.  He would hand out sheets for us to read and write page numbers from the text book on the board for us to study and that was it.  He never taught anything.  Not one word.  If we asked a question he'd say the answer was in the text.  He handed out tests for us to do but didn't care if we did them, or if someone else did them for us.  As long as we handed them in.  My friend did all of my tests and I got an A in geography.  I still haven't got a clue about that subject.  This guy(the teacher) had a pool business, on the side, and spent his class time  doing paper work and stuff to do with that business.  What a jerk!  People like him give teachers a bad name.  Sorry to say.

Plus I remember a grade 10 math teacher who had such a passion and patience for mathematics!  She was fantastic.  She could explain stuff to a kid 42 times and not sound the least bit irritated.  Her explanations were so clear, for me, and I found math suddenly ....easy.  I got 99% in that course!!  Never to be repeated in my life time.  Teachers can make such a difference in a child's life.  They are so important in helping kids build self-esteem and in inducing kids with their own passions....their own great desires to learn more!

Thankyou for being such a great teacher, Mum.  In my case, home was not a happy place, so school was it.  It was the teachers who gave me some of my own passions.  Thankyou for reminding me......of that!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2005, 12:24:10 PM
Saw this quote and liked it:

"The future is the time when you will wish you had done what you should be doing now".

Unknown Author

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 02, 2005, 11:04:51 PM
Quote
The following three-word phrases can be tools to help develop every
relationship.

1. Let me help.

Good friends see a need and then try to fill it. When they see a hurt they
do what they can to heal it. Without being asked, they jump in and help out.

2. I understand you.

People become closer and enjoy each other more when the other person accepts
and understands them. Letting your spouse know - in so many little ways –
that you understand them, is one of the most powerful tools for healing your
relationship. And this can apply to any relationship.

3. I respect you.

Respect is another way of showing love. Respect demonstrates that another
person is a true equal. If you talk to your children as if they were adults
you will strengthen the bonds and become closer friends. This applies to all
interpersonal relationships.

4. I miss you.

Perhaps more marriages could be saved and strengthened if couples simply and
sincerely said to each other "I miss you". This powerful affirmation tells
partners they are wanted, needed, desired and loved.

Consider how important you would feel, if you received an unexpected phone
call from your spouse in the middle of your workday, just to say "I miss
you."

5. Maybe you're right.

This phrase is very effective in diffusing an argument. The implication when
you say "maybe you're right" is the humility of admitting, "maybe I'm
wrong". Let's face it. When you have an argument with someone, all you
normally do is solidify the other person's point of view. They, or you, will
not likely change their position and you run the risk of seriously damaging
the relationship between you. Saying "maybe you're right" can open the door
to explore the subject more. You may then have the opportunity to express
your view in a way that is understandable to the other person.

6. Please forgive me

Many broken relationships could be restored and healed if people would admit
their mistakes and ask for forgiveness. All of us are vulnerable to faults,
foibles and failures. A man should never be ashamed to own up that he has
been in the wrong, which is saying, in other words, that he is wiser today
than he was yesterday.

7. I thank you.

Gratitude is an exquisite form of courtesy. People who enjoy the
companionship of good, close friends are those who don't take daily
courtesies for granted. They are quick to thank their friends for their many
expressions of kindness. On the other hand, people whose circle of friends
is severely constricted often do not have the attitude of gratitude.

8. Count on me

A friend is one who walks in when others walk out. Loyalty is an essential
ingredient for true friendship. It is the emotional glue that bonds people.
Those that are rich in their relationships tend to be steady and true
friends. When troubles come, a good friend is there indicating "you can
count on me."

9. I'll be there

If you have ever had to call a friend in the middle of the night, to take a
sick child to hospital, or when your car has broken down some miles from
home, you will know how good it feels to hear the phrase "I'll be there".
Being there for another person is the greatest gift we can give. When we are
truly present for other people, important things happen to them and us. We
are renewed in love and friendship. We are restored emotionally and
spiritually. Being there is at the very core of civility.

10. Go for it

We are all unique individuals. Don't try to get your friends to conform to
your ideals. Support them in pursuing their interests, no matter how far out
they seem to you. God has given everyone dreams, dreams that are unique to
that person only. Support and encourage your friends to follow their dreams.
Tell them to "go for it."

B o n u s:

11. I love you

Perhaps the most important three words that you can say. Telling someone
that you truly love them satisfies a person's deepest emotional needs. The
need to belong, to feel appreciated and to be wanted. Your spouse, your
children, your friends and you, all need to hear those three little words,
"I love you." Love is a choice. You can love even when the feeling, is gone.

12. GOD BLESS YOU!
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 04, 2005, 10:10:36 AM
Dear

a) Mom,
b) Dad,
c) Love of my life,
d) Assistant Principal,
e) Local Police Chief,

Words cannot begin to express how sorry I am that your

a) Car
b) House
c) Pet
d) Mother-in-law
e) Left arm

was severely damaged by my

a) infantile
b) puerile
c) inept
d) comically brilliant but nonetheless sadistic
e) woefully under appreciated

prank.

How could I have known that the

a) car
b) jet ski
c) large helium balloon
d) Patriot missile
e) Zamboni

I was riding in would go so far out of control? And while it is
true that I should not have pointed it in the direction of your

a) house
b) wife
c) Cub Scout troop
d) 1/16th sized replica of the Statue of Liberty, complete
   with lightbulb in the torch
e) priceless collection of Rolling Rock beer cans

You must understand that it was all meant in fun. The subsequent
carnage that I caused is beyond my ability to

a) imagine
b) fathom
c) comprehend
d) appreciate
e) pay for

and I must therefore humbly ask your forgiveness. I know
that you are perfectly within your rights to

a) hate me
b) sue me
c) spank me
d) take my firstborn
e) gouge out my eyes with spoons and feed them to the
   fish in your koi pond

but I ask you to remember all the good times we've had,
joshing around at

a) school
b) work
c) church
d) the bowling alley
e) the municipal jail

and to remember that I am first and foremost your

a) friend
b) child
c) sibling
d) lease co-signer
e) only possible match should you ever need a
   bone marrow transplant.

I think that counts for more than one prank, especially one that

a) was so stupid
b) was so silly
c) would have been funny if it worked
d) you would have done, if you had thought of it first
e) I'm going to use again on someone else.

Sincerely,


(your name here)
----------------

Gave me a giggle,

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on March 04, 2005, 10:46:30 AM
GFN: as usual, you brightened up my day!! :lol:
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 04, 2005, 11:10:50 AM
GFN:

I love the last two posts.  I am going to print those!  Patz
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 04, 2005, 11:32:43 AM
Thanks Mum.  You do that for me a lot too.

Print away Patz!  

Sorry, somehow I missed posting the title of that letter.  It's supposed to have the title:

All Purpose Appology Form.

Woops!!  Not the sharpest clicker-copier this morning! :D Need more coffee (or green tea or something...heehee).

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 07, 2005, 08:59:24 AM
There is nothing I can give you which you have not, but there is much that while I cannot give you, you can take:

No heaven can come to us unless our hearts find rest in it today.
Take Heaven.

No peace lies in the future which is not hidden in the present instant.
Take Peace.

The gloom of the world is but a shadow; behind it, yet within reach, is joy. Take Joy.

It is easy to be pleasant when life flows by like a song, but the man worth while is one who will smile,
when everything goes dead wrong.

For the test of the heart is trouble, and it always comes with the years, and the smile that is worth the praises of earth,
is the smile that shines through the tears.

C.R. Gibson, from a book called "Apples of Gold"

Another one I like,
GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 08, 2005, 08:48:55 AM
The  pweor of the hmuan mnid.
 
 Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in  waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and  lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm.  Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

Ani't taht wried?
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 08, 2005, 09:18:53 AM
hahaha! Brilliant! I love it!  :D I'm going to copy it, thanks!
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 11, 2005, 08:46:07 AM
FASCINATING FACTS FROM BIOLOGY

If you yelled for 8 years, 7 months, and 6 days, you would have
produced enough sound energy to heat up one cup of coffee. (Hardly seems worth it.)


If you pass wind consistently for 6 years and 9 months, enough gas is
produced to create the energy of an atomic bomb. (Now, that's more like it.)


The human heart creates enough pressure when it pumps out of the body to squirt blood 30 feet.


A pig's orgasm lasts for 30 minutes. (In my next life I want to be a
pig.)


Banging your head against a wall uses 150 calories an hour. (Still not over that pig thing.)


Humans and dolphins are the only species that have sex for pleasure.
(Is that why Flipper is always smiling? And why isn't the pig included in this list?)


On average, people fear spiders more then they do death.


The strongest muscle in the body is the tongue. (Hmmmmmm......)


A crocodile cannot stick out its tongue.


The ant can lift 50 times its own weight, can pull 30 times its own weight, and always falls over on its right side when intoxicated. (From drinking little bottles of....? Did the gov't pay for this research?)


Polar bears are left handed. (Who knew? Who cares? Did the gov't pay for this too?)


The flea can jump 350 times its body length. It's like a human jumping the length of a football field.


A cockroach will live 9 days without its head before it starves to
death.


The male praying mantis cannot copulate while it's head is attached to its body. The female initiates sex by ripping the male's head off. (Hi, honey. I'm home. What the...?)


Some lions mate over 50 times a day. (In my next life I still want to
be a pig. Quality over quantity, you know.)


Butterflies taste with their feet. (Oh, jeez!)


Elephants are the only animals that can't jump.


An ostrich's eye is bigger than its brain. (I know some people like
that.)


Starfish don't have brains. (I know some people like this too.)


Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown. BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and smack the fool upside the head.


Well.....hope you smiled.  I'm away now for a week.

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Portia on March 11, 2005, 09:01:43 AM
Quote
(Hi, honey. I'm home. What the...?)
hahahahahaha! :D  And the rest are good *grunt* *snort* *snuffle*

Have a great week GFN and thanks for the laughs! P
Title: Anything
Post by: longtire on March 11, 2005, 11:30:03 AM
GFN, Thanks for the laughs.   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 11, 2005, 11:37:15 AM
GFN,

Those were good, had me ROFL.

LM
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 17, 2005, 06:56:27 PM
Just another quote I like:

Quote
We cannot solve our problems
with the same thinking
we used to create them.

by Albert Einstein


GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on March 18, 2005, 07:06:12 AM
Quote
Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown. BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and smack the fool upside the head.

hahahahahahahahahahah! :lol:

Brilliant!
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on March 18, 2005, 09:23:04 AM
GFN,

Loved all your stats.  Great stuff.  However:

Quote
A pig's orgasm lasts for 30 minutes. (In my next life I want to be a
pig.)


Having bred dogs for years and watched more than a few breeding experiences, it may not be as good as it sounds.  Dogs also have long orgasms (I've seen them go longer than 30 minutes), but after the first 30 seconds of excitement (sounds like some men I know), the penis becomes knotted inside the female and cannot extract until the "orgasm" is complete and the knot shrinks.  I don't know for sure that that is what happens with a pig, but my guess would be that it is not all "fun."

I think the lions may have the better deal.  :lol:  :lol:

Thanks for the laughs.  Great way to start the day.

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 18, 2005, 09:32:22 AM
Hi all:

Glad so many enjoyed that list of stuff!

Brigid:

Quote
....the penis becomes knotted inside the female and cannot extract until the "orgasm" is complete and the knot shrinks.


 :D  :lol:  :D  :lol:  :D  :lol:  :D

Sounds less than fun!!!  

And if doggie could talk he might say:

  "SSSSSSSSSSomebody!!!!!! Pleaeaeaeaease!!
                                Untie my knot!!!!!"

Thanks for the laugh you've given me!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on March 18, 2005, 09:44:09 AM
GFN,

You're not far off the mark.  They do actually give you that look of "when is this going to be over."  You also have to keep the female very still as she really wants it to be over and will try to pull away.  This is painful for the male.  As I said--not really that much fun!!   :roll:  :roll:

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 18, 2005, 11:06:40 AM
With apologies to whoever started this thread, at this point I hope it dies a quick and painless death. Yuck.

mudpuppy
Title: Anything
Post by: Portia on March 18, 2005, 11:19:06 AM
Just one last thought (not mine, pinched):

wouldn’t it be great if human mating was also so painful for both male and female? Then we wouldn’t spend so much time and resources chasing it!

No more porn, no more ‘fashion’, no make up, no preening, face-lifts, no exploitation for sex, no sexual abuse/rape…hey this is getting to be a better idea the more I think about it! No unwanted children!  :D

Sorry mudpup, it was too good an opportunity to spout off.
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 18, 2005, 11:29:49 AM
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

In a pig's eye it should end!   :lol: Loved the stat on the pig. :lol: Patz
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 18, 2005, 11:33:51 AM
Patz,
Quote
In a pig's eye it should end!


That's bad enough to be one of mine! :shock:

mudpup
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 18, 2005, 11:41:49 AM
Quote
wouldn’t it be great if human mating was also so painful for both male and female? Then we wouldn’t spend so much time and resources chasing it!


Ya, Portia, and imagine.....the crux of male/female relationships might end up being....communication and other amazing stufff?

Never mind....there would always be those who would use mating as a form of punishment to others.  So no matter what.....there would probably those who would be "chasing it".

And even though I laughed about it :oops: , I do feel sorry for the doggies. :(  That's really not very nice for them, is it?   I do find nature weird sometimes?? :?   Too complicated for me to fully grasp, really.

Sorry too Mudpuppy.  I started this thread (but didn't sign my GFN).  There are lot's of good things here too, if you read back a ways.  No worries if you're not interested.   That's ok too.

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Portia on March 18, 2005, 11:46:35 AM
Welcome back GFN, hope you had a good hol :D

Quote
I do find nature weird sometimes??  
Me too, especially the human part of it!
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 18, 2005, 12:03:33 PM
Quote
Welcome back GFN, hope you had a good hol


Thanks Portia.  I did have a nice, relaxing time.  My mother in law and I took my daughter and 3 dogs to our cabin up north.  It's really lovely there by the river (our place is just a tiny shack but I love it there!!  It's so peaceful and beautiful!).

Anyway....speaking of nature brings to mind all I've seen there, over the years.

First, the amazing, awesome Blue Herons, who step slowly and carefully along the shallows of the river and snap fish so quick you can easily miss it.

A bald eagle!!! (can't even find words for that one...he was so incredible and rare to see).

I once had a disagreement with a porcupine (and I gave in...they're really something to mess with!!).

A Bob cat (who scared the tar outta me while at the same time I was struck with wonder and awe).

A black bear (seen lot's of them but only one young fella, up at that spot).

A mink fishing in winter, who was able to dry himself off (so it seemed) with lightening speed, somehow???  And then dive back in for another mouthfull.  He was truly a joy to see.

The otters....playing and tossling with eachother on the ice....then slipping into the river and bobbing around in a chase.  They are so cute!!!

At least a few hundred beavers, whom I used to like, but now I don't because they keep killing trees and leaving them to rot, for no good reason that I can see.

The mamma snapping turtle that climbs up our bank and lays her eggs in the same spot every single spring.....for who knows how many years????

A snobby skunk who seems to think we humans are not worth his time but who prances by our campfire, every so often, with his nose in the air!!!  Too funny!   And he knows exactly when to come and eat the turtle eggs.

So many, it would probably bore too many for me to keep on.  Nature is confusing and weird but so interesting and wonderous, isn't it?

Human nature?  Not as fun to watch, if you ask me.

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 18, 2005, 12:30:58 PM
GFN,
Quote
Sorry too Mudpuppy. I started this thread (but didn't sign my GFN). There are lot's of good things here too, if you read back a ways. No worries if you're not interested. That's ok too.


Yes I know there are lots of good things here. I just had some pretty revolting mental pictures forming from a couple of posts.
Your last post was a little more my style. :D Sounds like a wonderful spot.
You may have said before, but how old is your daughter?

mudpuppy
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on March 18, 2005, 02:21:48 PM
GFN,

So much nicer than painful orgasms (tho not as funny).

I, too, love to go up north in the summer and watch nature do its thing.  The bald eagles are spectacular.  We used to stay on a lake that always had a nest of them up high in a giant pine tree (they come back to the same nests every year).  We were usually there in August so the babies would be quite large, but not yet able to fly.  You could hear them screaming for food halfway across the lake as you would watch the parents soaring over the lake looking for unsuspecting victims.

I'm also a huge fan of loons and love getting up early in the morning when the lake is like glass and watch the mothers swimming with their babies close behind while dad is off hunting.  The calling sound they make to each other is like no other.

This talk makes me anxious for the warm months as I'm waiting for the start of another snowstorm predicted for tonight.  Oh well, just another part of mother nature.

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 18, 2005, 03:36:37 PM
How about a little change of pace?
My wife and I love old movies. Here's a list of some of my faves.

Musicals,
Tie between An American in Paris and the Music Man
Honorable mention to
Quote
Singin in the Rain
and one with Fred Astaire, Rita Hayworth and Adolph Menjou, it had a hilarious script, but i can't remember the name.

Westerns,
Best, The Searchers- John Wayne as an obsessed racist who learns his lesson.
Honorable mention- The Westerner, with Gary Cooper and Walter Brennan.
Westward the Women- Robert Taylor and a bunch of rowdy, strong women.

Drama,
Best, The Night of the Hunter-Robert Mitchum as a bone chilling psycho.
Honorable mention, Gaslight-Charles Boyer as a bone chilling psycho.
How Green Was my Valley-Maureen O'Hara, Walter Pidgeon and that old guy I can never remember the name of. :? No bone chilling psychos, sorry.

Comedy,
Best, My Man Godfrey-William Powell, Carol Lombard.
Hon Mention, My Favorite Wife-Cary Grant, Irene Dunne-the feisty old judge shoulda got an  academy award.
The Quiet Man-the Duke and Maureen O'Hara in Ireland.
Mr. Blandings builds His Dream House-Cary Grant and Myrna Loy
Bringing Up Baby-Cary Grant and Katherine Hepburn
After the Thin Man-Willian Powell and Myrna Loy
The Batchelor and the Bobby Soxer-Cary Grant and Myrna Loy again.
Oh yeah, To Be or Not to Be-Jack Benny, Carol Lombard.

Special Category,
Preston Sturgess Movies,
Hail the Conquering Hero, The Palm Beach Story and Miracle at Morgan's Creek are my favorites. The guy was a genius.

Last but not least- Best depiction of an N in the movies, all time,
The envelope please- Jimmy Cagney- White Heat. (Wild applause)Probably the greatest ending to a movie in history. Spends the entire movie clawing his way to the top of the gangster world because of his N momma. Gets cornered on top of a huge gasoline storage tank hundreds of feet up. When he sees there's no way out, he shoots a valve on top of the tank while he screams out to his mommy "Made it ma, top of the world!!!" Then of course a giant fireball. Every Ns grandiose, I'll show them, dream come true.

Anybody else love old flicks? If so add to the list or tell me why mine is screwy. :D  :D  :D

That post took too long, back to work. :wink:

mudpuppy
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 18, 2005, 03:39:46 PM
Singin in the Rain was suposed to be underlined not quoted. My mouse sights are a little rusty, I guess. :?

mud
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on March 18, 2005, 08:49:07 PM
Mud: what a riot, when my students entered the room today I sang the song "Good Morning" to them (from singing in the rain). They all think I'm nuts, so it's ok. (I tell them it's in my contract to have a good time while I teach)

On a musical note: have you heard Jamie Collum's version of Singing in the Rain off his "Twentysomething" CD? Awesome!

"The Music Man" was my father's favorite musical ever....he starred in a community theater production once I think.  And ironically, my musician son would watch that over an over when he was 3 and march around the house in his "bander hat" (a drum major hat I got him) with a stick (his "bander stick").  My dad was a great proponant of PMA (not PMS) or using a Positive Mental Attitude for life, and maybe the "think system" hit home with him (or maybe that it's just a cool story with great everything in it). Too bad my son and my dad never met!
They re-did that show recently with Matthew Broderick (HBO, I think). My kids and I still like the original film best!

But bottom line: West Side Story is the best musical ever. Bernstein's music was and still is, groundbreaking.
Title: Anything
Post by: Bliz on March 18, 2005, 09:17:28 PM
So much fun to hear others talk of loving the "Music Man",  My fav of all time. Last month my 13 year old niece played Amaryllis in the Middle School production and I was in heaven. SHe needed help with the piano parts.  

So many good songs in it and some nifty choreography. Such a beautifully simple story in a simpler time.  Glad to know I'm not the only throwback that likes the old musicals. Many said it was the best show the kids had put on in a while.  Even the men liked it and were waxing on about the production.
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 18, 2005, 09:25:06 PM
mum,

The thing I love about the Music Man, besides the great songs and Robert Preston, is it manages to poke fun at middle American silliness at the same time it has a real affection for it.

I drive my daughter crazy doing the "I'll Build a Stairway to Paradise" number from An American in Paris. She seems to prefer the original.

mum, I could have used a teach like you to replace some of the Miss Crabapples I had.  :D
How old are your inmates?

Good night all.

mudpuppy
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on March 18, 2005, 09:47:23 PM
mud: these particular inmates were 5th graders but I teach art to the whole school.
Title: Anything
Post by: sleepyhead on March 19, 2005, 04:11:42 AM
Welcome back GFN, your cabin sounds absolutely wonderful.... I think I need a holiday there! And Mudpuppy, I love almost all black and white films. When I was a kid I loved the old musicals, we had neither cable nor a VCR so I used to watch the old musicals on TV in the holidays. I am sure I'm a gay man trapped in a woman's body :shock: ! Apart from the musicals, anything with Lauren Bacall or Katherine Hepburn. And Hitchcock! I always loved Gaslights, alwyays identified with Ingrid Bergman... Wonder why... :roll: .
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on March 19, 2005, 09:32:00 AM
Sleepyhead: "gay man trapped in a woman's body"....love it!! :D
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on March 19, 2005, 09:54:26 AM
My vote for the best movie of all time would have to be "To Kill a Mockingbird", although I love most anything with Gregory Peck.  It was hard for me to get through the part with the rabid dog, but other than that it was perfection imo.  

I love the musicals, too.  My parents had the album from "My Fair Lady" when I was growing up and I used to dance and sing along with it.  Still know all the words by heart.  My son is a singer and had the role of Lieutenant Cable in "South Pacific" his senior year.  I would have to put "Singin in the Rain" at the top of the oldies, however.  In current times, "Phantom of the Opera" is my fav.

Thanks for the memories.

 Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 19, 2005, 11:37:59 AM
Hi mum and Sleepy,

Quote
mud: these particular inmates were 5th graders but I teach art to the whole school.

Sounds like fun, mum.
What branch of art do you prefer? I love to paint and carve wood, mostly wildlife and landscape stuff.

Sleepy wrote,
Quote
I am sure I'm a gay man trapped in a woman's body


Well I'm a fairly big, slightly rough around the edges kind of guy so its even trickier for me to tell anyone I like watching Gene Kelly prancing around in tight britches in Technicolor.
I haven't noticed my wife glancing at me strangely as we watch any musicals yet.  :roll:  :shock:  :roll: But I think maybe I'll go rent a couple of war flicks this weekend. Pork Chop Hill sounds good, lots of blood and guts. Its got Gregory Peck in it too, Brigid. :wink:

mudpup
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on March 20, 2005, 11:42:47 AM
Hey, Mud.  I finally registered yesterday, and for some reason, things haven't been going through....we'll see.
In my classes, I teach everything...painting, drawing, sculpture, printmaking, etc, all entertwined with art history and criticism...but I am  
a "studio" based teacher (hands on....).  my personal favorites are printmaking (my major at art school) and drawing and clay (anything) but I get pretty psyched about whatever media we work with (if I didn't like it we would never do it....can't teach what you hate).
On my own, I prefer painting (water color and acrylic), drawing and clay sculpture.
Do you have any favorite artists?  I would guess you like: American or Hudson River School landscape paintings, and Charles Remington stuff....am I right? Check out Thomas Eakins.....bet you'd like him too.
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 20, 2005, 08:07:20 PM
Hi mum,
Good guess. I really like Thomas Moran, my favorite is probably George Innes. I like Eakins as well.
I'm not a huge western art afficiando, but I do enjoy Remington and Charles Russell.
My favorites among the old geezers are Rembrandt, Caravaggio, Tintoretto and Hieronymus(sp?) Bosch.
I really like a couple of modern sporting artists too; Ogden Pleissner and Robert Abbett.

This will probably make me sound like a luddite but modern art gives me a pain. Sorry, I've tried, nothing works. It still gives me a pain. :?

I have always preferred oils, partly because I love the smell of turpentine and partly because I can return again and again as my eye changes.
Watercolor is a challenge for me. I've done a couple I really like but usually I am not satisfied with them.
I really love wood; the smell and feel of it. I also enjoy making custom rifle and shotgun stocks.
I wish I could see some of your work. I hope its not all modern or I just stuck a big foot in my mouth, huh?. :oops:  :oops:

mudpup
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on March 20, 2005, 09:58:08 PM
Hey< Mud!  As a teacher, I do it all, I appreciate it all.  Different strokes for different folks. My art is fairly accessible for most folks... even my more "modern stuff".  I have a friend who is one of the more well known abstract painters nowadays.  I love her stuff, although it is not representational at all.  Many people who don't like "modern" simply wish to have the work represent something real.  Nothing wrong with that.  Like I tell my students, the art police won't get you (there aren't any!)
I am not a fan of Western art at all, but I do like the fact that every person in a Remington sculpture is the same man.  That's pretty funny.

Are you a fan of Impressionism at all? I am curious, as so many people love Monet, but Mary Cassatt is my fav, for her compostition more than anything.  Sometimes I will like an artist's work, and then find out a lot about him/her and then hate the work, because I know what he/she did.
The one exception is Gauguin.  What a jerk he was (from most accounts) and yet, I still appreciate his work somehow.  His use of color, and composition.  I have a few favorite styles: later Cubism, Fauvism (early Mattisse and friends), Rene Magritte (surrealist...but not Dali, ugggh) and I love, just love Wassily Kandinsky (I don't think you would, from what you say).  I am surprised you like Bosch!  Yikes, his stuff creeps me out sometimes (like Dali's can).   I don't really like Jaques Lipshcitz, but you can't beat that name for cracking up a classroom!!!! I like Faith Ringold, too, for her story book like paintings...and my favorite illustrator is Chris Van Allsburg.  His drawings are masterful....and talk about arrangement on the page!!  Awesome.

Oh, boring, huh....got me talking about art!
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 21, 2005, 12:54:04 PM
mum,
Quote
Are you a fan of Impressionism at all?

Yes, but I pick and choose. Gaugin always gave me a pain even before I knew what a creep he was. I like Cassatt a lot and Pissarro too.

One guy I forgot to mention is Winslow Homer. One of my faves. What an original.

 
Quote
I am surprised you like Bosch! Yikes, his stuff creeps me out sometimes (like Dali's can).

Thats why I like it. I think it has something to with my Christianity. He really conveys the alieness of hell. :shock:

mud
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 21, 2005, 07:56:01 PM
Hi all:

Sorry for interupting Mud and Mum, but I have a really dumb question to ask Mud: :oops:

Mudpuppy, please what's the name of the thread where we were talking about apologizing and I went about pasting stuff from another thread and now can't seem to find it ...to see what you wrote back...if you did...which I imagine you did????? :?  :oops:  :D  Do you know the one I mean? :D

Thankyou so much.  I hate it when I post stuff and then promptly forget where the heck that was.  :roll:

Now, please go on with your discussion on art and artists...it is very interesting!!  

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on March 21, 2005, 09:16:15 PM
Hey, GFN, it's the anything thread, remember?  Maybe we should call it the "what was I doing" or "what did I come in this room to get" or "where are my car keys" thread :lol: Just giving you a hard time.  I can't find or remember anything....I'm impressed you remember once there was a thread that......
I would say aging sucks, but I've always been an air head (too many other things to contemplate!!!!). Not that you are an airhead :roll:
Ok, I'll shut up now.
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 21, 2005, 10:13:11 PM
Hiya Mum:

No!  No!  Don't shut up! :D

I totally deserve it! :oops:

I only have one little tiny brain cell and it only functions part of the time (on a good day).

I swear....I'd forget my name if it wasn't embroidered on all my pillow cases!  :shock:  Or is that my brief case??  :roll:  I can't remember. :oops:

Guess I'll have to wait and see what Mudpuppy has to say.  :shock:  :shock:

Deep breath.......brace myself..........alrighty then.........

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on March 21, 2005, 10:31:48 PM
Gee, what will we do if Mudpup can't remember either (what with bunny rabbits embroidered on his briefcase and all!!!) :P Big noogy, mud!!! (how do you spell noogy anyway....do you know what I mean by that?)
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on March 21, 2005, 10:39:26 PM
GFN,
Quote

Mudpuppy, please what's the name of the thread where we were talking about apologizing and I went about pasting stuff from another thread and now can't seem to find it


If you are referring to the discussion where I was indirectly involved, it was not on the Anything thread, but I'm not sure which one it was.  My brain cells are dissolving as I write and no telling what will be left as of tomorrow.  If I can find it, I will let you know.

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 21, 2005, 10:39:54 PM
In that case.....I'll have to use my one tiny little functioning (for the moment) brain cell and imagine what he might have posted back to me there.

I'll do my best to imagine something very nice!! :D  :D

I think it's newgee?  nugie?  noooogeee?  I can't remember. :roll:
I can't spell either so why am I trying?? :?  :shock:  :?

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 21, 2005, 11:01:34 PM
Hi guys,
It was page seven of "fragments of my story" Sleepyhead's thread.

I always thought it was noogy. :?

And I DO NOT have bunnies on my briefcase. In fact I don't even have a briefcase. I show up at my lawyers with a box full of papers and he just rolls his eyes. :roll: Yeah like that.

mud
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 21, 2005, 11:27:59 PM
Thanks Mudpuppy:

God bless you and all the bunnies too.
 :D
GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 21, 2005, 11:31:22 PM
Hi Brigid:

Quote
My brain cells are dissolving as I write and no telling what will be left as of tomorrow


Oh no!!  I'm wearing off on you!!

Thanks Brigid....I found the thread per Mud's good memory.   8)

Sweet dreams all!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on March 21, 2005, 11:32:15 PM
Mud, are you like, one of those savants?  Can you remember phone numbers easily too?  Geepers, I'll take one of you for my memory, one of GFN to make those cutting but they don't know they're cutting remarks, and two Bunnys to not take any crap for me.....and of course everyone else here, too,  so that when the wolves come knockin (or that summons server like the other day) you will all be there telling me it's ok and helping me be tough.
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 21, 2005, 11:46:34 PM
Oh Mum!!

I love those Summons Servers!!  (SS)

SS:  "Are you GFN?"

Me:  "GF who?"

SS:  "GFN.  Are you GFN?"

Me:  "Who?"

SS:  "You!!!  Are you GFN??  I have important paper work for you?"

Me:  "For who? GF what?"

SS:  "For you, if you're GFN.  Are you GFN?"

Me:  "Who me?  Important papers?  For GF who?"

SS:  "N!   N!  I said GFN!  Didn't you hear me?  Are you she?"

Me:  "Well, last time I looked I was a she...and I'm thinking of staying that way."

SS:  "NO. No.  Are you she?  Are you GFN?"

Me:  "If I am, do I get to stay a she?"

SS:   "Look lady, I don't have all day.  Are you GFN or not?"

Me:  "Well.....I see.  That is a problem isn't it?"

SS:  "Lady, there's no problem if you're GFN.  Are you?"

Me:  "Am I what?"

SS:  "Not what!!  Who!!!  Are you her or not.  I've about had it!"

Me:  "That's too much information.  How important are those papers?"

SS:  "One last time......are you GFN?"

Me:  "Ofcourse I am!!  Who else would make you earn your fee so well?"

But what I want to say is:

"Buddy.  I bet you haven't had it in awhile!!" :D

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on March 22, 2005, 09:16:04 AM
GFN,

Quote
"Buddy. I bet you haven't had it in awhile!!"


You're so cute.  Thanks for making me laugh once again.  At least I don't need all those brain cells to do that!!

Quote
Can you remember phone numbers easily too?


I hate people like that.  :lol:  :lol:  It's all I can do to remember my own number.

If mud doesn't have bunnies in his non-existent briefcase, perhaps they are hopping around on his tie or on his socks.  He wouldn't want to leave home without one.  
 :wink:

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: sleepyhead on March 22, 2005, 09:25:18 AM
Mudpuppy: Bit of a late reply here, but my mind is all over the place lately, and I hope you agree with me that better late than never?
Quote
But I think maybe I'll go rent a couple of war flicks this weekend. Pork Chop Hill sounds good, lots of blood and guts.
:lol:
Hpe you didn't take offence at the "gay man in a woman's body" thing :oops: I sure wasn't thinking of you, just of me and the classic stereotype. Actually, I sometimes think that I'm a drag queen trapped in a woman's body... Ah, the glitter and the sparkle and the glamour of it all... Please don't force yourself to watch war films on my account :wink:  :roll:  Oh, well, Im falling apart into incoherence here, better go...
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 22, 2005, 10:08:21 AM
Hi all:

Hey Brigid:

Quote
Thanks for making me laugh once again. At least I don't need all those brain cells to do that!!


That's the great thing about laughing, isn't it.   Doesn't take a whole lot of effort...or thought.  It's spontaneous sometimes.

I laugh a lot.  I really believe in those endorphins.  Beats crying by a long shot (but someone else here said....it's a similar release....which makes sence to me. Laughing just feels so much better afterward). :D  :D

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 22, 2005, 11:25:54 AM
mum,
Quote
Mud, are you like, one of those savants?

I'd like to say yes, but to be perfectly honest I looked through about 8 different threads before I found it. I figured if GFN could find that post she made, it was the least I could do.
My memory is odd. I can remember conversations word for word years later, and I can remember a face from twenty years ago after having seen it once. But when I meet someone for the first time I invariably forget their name by the end of the introduction. I then spend the rest of the conversation distracted by trying to remember their name. And I have a difficult time remembering where I have placed things.
Sleepy,
Quote
Hpe you didn't take offence at the "gay man in a woman's body" thing

Why would I be offended if you think you are a gay man in a woman's body? :?  No skin off of my nose as they say. :wink:
Just joshing. I know what you meant. No offense taken. My wife says I am secure in my masculinity. Just in case I still want to watch Pork Chop Hill. :roll:
Please, I hope none of this will take us back into the feminine/masculine thing again.  :wink:

mudpup
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 23, 2005, 12:09:09 AM
Quote
I invariably forget their name by the end of the introduction....And I have a difficult time remembering where I have placed things.


Oh no!!  I'm wearing off on you too!! :shock:  :oops:  :shock:

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 23, 2005, 12:35:39 PM
Blondes are actually very bright!!!:


I urgently needed a few days holiday, but because I never had any
leave due, I knew the Boss would not allow me to take a few days
away.

I thought that maybe if I acted "Mad" then he would tell me to take a
few days off. So I hung upside down on the ceiling and made funny
noises.

My co-worker (who's blonde) asked me what I was doing ? I told her
that I was pretending to be a light bulb so that the Boss would think
I was "Mad" and give me a few days off.

A few minutes later the Boss came into the office and asked "What are
you doing ?"

I told him I was a light bulb. He said "You are mad - take a few days
off".

I jumped down and walked out of the office.

When my co-worker (the blonde) followed me, the Boss asked her "...And
where are you going?"


 

         (You're going to love this!)





   
 


     She said "I can't work in the dark !!!!"

 




GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 23, 2005, 01:17:14 PM
This is love

For those who misuse the word love even kids have
a better understanding than adults. A group of
professional people posted this question to a group
of 4 to 8 year olds. "What does love mean?" The
answers they got were broader and deeper than
anyone could have imagined.

***********************

When my grandma got arthritis, she couldn't bend
over and paint her toenails anymore.
 So my grandpa does it for her now all the time,
even when his hands got arthritis too.

That's love.

Rebecca - age 8

***********************

When someone loves you, the way they say your
name is different. You just know that your name is
safe in their mouths.

Billy - age 4

***********************

Love is when a girl puts on perfume and a
boy puts on shaving Cologne and they go out
 and smell each other.

Kari - age 5

***********************

Love is when you go out to eat and give
 somebody most of your French Fries without making
them give you any of theirs.

Chrissy - age 6

***********************

Love is what makes you smile when you're tired.

Terri - age 4

***********************

Love is when my mommy makes coffee for
my daddy and she takes a sip giving it to him,
to make sure the taste is OK.

Danny - age 7

***********************

Love is when you kiss all the time. Then when you
get tired of kissing, you still want to be together and
you talk more. My mommy and daddy are like that.
They look gross when they kiss.

Emily - age 8

***********************

Love is what's in the room with you at Christmas if
you stop opening presents and listen.

Bobby - age 7 (wow!)

***********************

If you want to learn to love better,
you should start with a friend who you hate.

Nikka - age 6

***********************

Love is when you tell a guy you like his shirt,
then he wears it everyday.

Noelle - age 7

***********************

Love is like a little old woman and a
little old man who are still friends even after
they know each other so well.

Tommy - age 6

***********************

My mommy loves me more than anybody. You don't
see anyone else kissing me to sleep at night.

Clare - age 6

***********************

Love is when mommy sees daddy smelly and sweaty
and still says he is handsomer than Robert Redford.

Chris - age 7

***********************

Love is when your puppy licks your face
even after you left him alone all day.

Mary Ann - age 4

***********************

When you love somebody, your eyelashes go up and
down and little stars come out of you.

Karen - age 7

***********************

Love is when mommy sees daddy on the toilet and
doesn't think it's gross.

Mark - age 6

***********************

You really shouldn't say "I LOVE YOU" unless you
mean it. But if you mean it, you should say it a lot.
People forget.

Jessica - age 8

***********************

And the winner was a 4 year old child whose
next door neighbor was an elderly man who
 had just lost his wife.

When the child saw the man cry, the little boy went
over into the man's yard and climbed on top of the
man's lap and just sat there.

When the boy's mother asked him what he'd said to
the neighbor, the little boy said,
"Nothing, I just helped him cry."



Aren't those wonderful?
GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 23, 2005, 01:31:11 PM
Thank you GFN,
Those are really really beautiful. Wow, as you said.

mud
Title: Anything
Post by: Portia on March 24, 2005, 04:13:53 AM
Can you believe that a child of 6 said this?

If you want to learn to love better,
you should start with a friend who you hate.

Incredible but I do believe it. We could learn so much from children if we'd only listen and understand. Odd, all of my closest and deepest friendships (all 2 or 3 of them) began by us having huge disagreements.

Thanks GFN those are great. Maybe we should have real children running our countries? Now there's an idea :D
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 24, 2005, 08:57:48 AM
Hi all:

Thanks Mudpuppy!

Ya Portia:  Out of the mouths of babes, eh?

Reminds me of so many things my own kids said, when they were little, that really made me take note and say to myself:  "I better pay attention.  This kid is teaching me important stuff".

One that comes to mind in regard to love was when my mother died, and I had to tell my 4 year old child about it, and I said to her that we will all feel hurt and very sad to never see Nanny here again, and that it's ok to be sad because it hurts a lot to lose someone we love, and my child responded:

"It hurts me the most 'cause I'm the littlest!!!"

and the poor thing ran down the hall crying and into her room and she cried and cried for the next 10 hours straight, not just wimpering, but loud woeful crying, that no soothing, no hugging, nothing could ease.  Her pain did seem bigger than anyone elses.   For such a little person she had such a massive grief.....and it did seem the most because she was so small.

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 28, 2005, 06:48:44 PM
Quote
Inner peace...

By following the simple advice I read in an article, I have finally
found inner peace...

The article read:

"The way to achieve inner peace is to finish all the things you've
started."

So I looked around the house to see all the things I started and
hadn't finished... and before coming to work this morning I
finished off a bottle of red wine, a bottle of white, the Bailey's,
Kahlua and Wild Turkey, my Prozac, some Valium and a box of
chocolates.

You have no idea how freakin good I feel...



Someone sent me this and I sure giggled. :D

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Stormchild Guesting on March 28, 2005, 07:07:00 PM
:D  :D  :D  :D  :D

laughed till i cried. copied it and tweaked it some (changed the psych drugs to painkillers) and sent it to a couple people I know who could use a smile. thanks GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 29, 2005, 10:25:12 AM
A TRIBUTE TO  MR. MILLER............

During the waning years of the depression  in a small Idaho community, I used to stop by Mr. Miller's roadside  stand for farm fresh produce as the season made it available.   Food and money were still extremely scarce and bartering was  used extensively.

One day Mr. Miller was bagging some  early potatoes for me. I noticed a small boy, delicate of bone and  feature, ragged but clean, hungrily appraising a basket of  freshly picked green peas. I paid for my potatoes but was also drawn to  the display of fresh green peas. I am a pushover for creamed peas and  new potatoes. Pondering the peas, I couldn't help overhearing  the conversation between Mr. Miller and the ragged boy next to  me.

"Hello Barry, how are you today?"
"H'lo, Mr.  Miller. Fine, thank ya. Jus' admirin' them peas ...sure look good."
"They are good, Barry. How's your Ma?"
"Fine. Gittin' stronger alla' time."
"Good. Anything I can help you with?"
"No, Sir. Jus' admirin' them peas."
"Would you like to  take some home?"
"No, Sir. Got nuthin' to pay for 'em  with."
"Well, what have you to trade me for some of those  peas?"

"All I got's my prize marble here."
"Is  that right? Let me see it."
"Here 'tis. She's a  dandy."
"I can see that. Hmmmmm, only thing is this one is blue and I sort of go for red. Do you have a red one like this at home?"
"Not zackley ... but almost."

"Tell you what.  Take this sack of peas home with you and next trip this way let me look  at that red marble."
"Sure will. Thanks Mr.  Miller."

Mrs. Miller, who had been standing nearby, came over to help  me. With a smile she said, "There are two other boys like him in our community, all three are in very poor circumstances. Jim just loves to  bargain with them for peas, apples, tomatoes, or whatever. When they  come back with their red marbles, and they always do, he decides he doesn't like red after all and he sends them home with a bag of produce  for a green marble or an orange one, perhaps." I left the stand  smiling to myself, impressed with this man.

A short time later I moved  to Colorado but I never forgot the story of this man, the boys, and  their bartering.

Several years went by, each more rapid than the previous  one. Just recently I had the occasion to visit some old friends in that  Idaho community and while I was there I learned that Mr. Miller had died.  They were having his viewing that evening and knowing my friends wanted to go, I agreed to accompany them.

Upon arrival at the mortuary we  fell into line to meet the relatives of the deceased and to offer whatever  words of comfort we could. Ahead of us in line were three young men.  One was in an army uniform and the other two wore nice haircuts, dark suits and white shirts ... all very professional looking.

They  approached Mrs. Miller, standing composed and smiling by her husband's casket. Each of the young men hugged her, kissed her on  the cheek, spoke briefly with her and moved on to the casket. Her misty light blue eyes followed them as, one by one, each young man stopped briefly  and placed his own warm hand over the cold pale hand in the casket. Each left the mortuary awkwardly, wiping his eyes.

Our turn came to meet Mrs.  Miller. I told her who I was and mentioned the story she had told me about the marbles. With her eyes glistening, she took my hand and led me to the casket. "Those three young men who just left were the boys I told you about. They just told me how they appreciated the things Jim "traded"  them.

Now, at last, when Jim could not change his mind about color or size  they came to pay their debt."
"We've never had a great deal of the wealth of this world," she confided, "but right now, Jim would consider himself the richest man in Idaho."
With loving gentleness she lifted  the lifeless fingers of her deceased husband. Resting underneath were three exquisitely shined red marbles.

Moral: We will not be remembered by our  words, but by our kind deeds.


Life is not measured by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath.


Today I wish you a day of ordinary miracles
.. . . A fresh pot of coffee you didn't make yourself
.. . . An unexpected phone call from an old friend
.. . . Green stoplights on your way to work
.. . . The fastest line at the grocery store
.. . . A good sing-along song on the radio
.. . . Your keys right where you left them

They say it takes a minute to find a special person,
An hour to appreciate them,
A day to  love them,
But an entire life to forget them.........

Don't know the author of this.

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 31, 2005, 08:43:19 AM
Hold on to what is good,
even if it's a handful of earth.
Hold on to what you believe,
Even if it's a tree that stands by itself.
Hold on to what you must do,
Even if it's a long way from here.
Hold on to your life,
Even if it's easier to let go.
Hold on to my hand,
Even if I've gone away from you.

Pueblo Indian Prayer

Hope you're day is a good one!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on March 31, 2005, 10:19:28 AM
GFN:  I said that exact Indian prayer at a small service for a friend of mine who died last year.  How ironic.  I could barely speak the last line...but I know he heard me.......it really is a beautiful prayer.
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on March 31, 2005, 05:09:34 PM
Hi Mum:

I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.   :(

Quote
..but I know he heard me.......it really is a beautiful prayer.


I bet he did.  Yes, it is very simple but beautiful, isn't it?

A friend sent it to me, about a year ago, and I kept it.

I really like it. :D
 
GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 01, 2005, 09:20:19 AM
LIFE'S TRUTH'S

I used to eat a lot of natural foods until I learned that most people die of
natural causes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gardening Rule: When weeding, the best way to make sure you are removing a
weed and not a valuable plant is to pull on it. If it comes out of the
ground easily, it is a valuable plant.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The easiest way to find something lost around the house is to buy a
replacement.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Stick to the truth and you can't go wrong.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There are two kinds of pedestrians -- the quick and the dead.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Life is sexually transmitted.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

An unbreakable toy is useful for breaking other toys.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If quitters never win, and winners never quit, then who is the fool. who
said, "Quit while you're ahead?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Always get the last word in: Apologize.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day; teach that person to use
the Internet and they won't bother you for weeks.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of
nothing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Have you noticed since everyone has a camcorder these days no one talks
about seeing UFOs like they use to?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All of us could take a lesson from the weather. It pays no attention to
criticism.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Why does a slight tax increase cost you two hundred dollars and a
substantial tax cut saves you thirty cents?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is
weird and people take Prozac to make it normal.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to
realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

How is it one careless match can start a forest fire, but it takes a whole
box to start a campfire?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

AND THE # 1 THOUGHT FOR THE DAY:

You read about all these terrorists --- most of them came here legally, but
they hung around on these expired visas, some for as long as 10 to 15 years.

Now, compare that to Blockbuster... You are two days late with a video and those people are all over you. Let's put Blockbuster in charge of
immigration.



Ofcourse, this was sent to me before Blockbuster got rid of their late fees.
 :shock:  :?  :roll:

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 01, 2005, 09:38:00 AM
GFN:

Thanks for the chuckle of the day.  This will be for distribtion of course.  Have a good day.  :)  Patz
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on April 01, 2005, 10:06:54 AM
:lol: Thanks for the laughs, GFN!!
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 01, 2005, 02:26:40 PM
Hey Mum, Patz!

Glad you liked it!

My fav:

Quote
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
:shock:

Breath in.  Breath out.  Breath in.  Breath out. :roll:

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 01, 2005, 06:40:34 PM
Prayers for our Pope, tonight,
as he moves closer to Christ.
His suffering has been long. :(
His peace is approaching.
God bless his soul.

GFN

PS:  I wish they'd shut up about his funeral until he is at least gone!!
       Stupid media!!! :x
Title: Anything
Post by: Stormchild Guesting on April 01, 2005, 07:04:24 PM
Quote from: GFN
Prayers for our Pope, tonight,
as he moves closer to Christ.
His suffering has been long. :(
His peace is approaching.
God bless his soul.


Amen.
Title: Anything
Post by: October on April 02, 2005, 04:10:54 AM
Quote from: Anonymous
Prayers for our Pope, tonight,
as he moves closer to Christ.
His suffering has been long. :(
His peace is approaching.
God bless his soul.

GFN

PS:  I wish they'd shut up about his funeral until he is at least gone!!
       Stupid media!!! :x



I agree.  Too much information!!!  Sky News reported him dead yesterday afternoon.  Good job he wasn't watching, or it might have given him a terrible shock!!

God bless, JP.
Title: Useful New Drugs (Mostly For Women)
Post by: Stormchild Guesting on April 02, 2005, 07:47:52 PM
D A M I T O L

> Take 2 and the rest of the world can go to h*** for up to 8 full hours.

>

ST. M O M 'S  W O R T

> Plant extract that treats mom's depression by rendering preschoolers unconscious for up to two full days. Works well in combination with Damitol.

>

> E M P T Y N E S T R O G E N

> Eliminates melancholy and loneliness by reminding you of how awful they were as teenagers and how you couldn't wait till they moved out.

>

F L I P I T O R

> Increases life expectancy of commuters by controlling road rage and the urge to flip off other drivers.

>

M E N I C I L L I N

> Potent anti-boy-otic for older women. Increases resistance to such lethal lines as, "You make me want to be a better person ..Can we get naked now?"

>

BUYAGRA

> Injectable stimulant taken prior to shopping increases potency, duration, and credit limit of spending spree.

>

J A C K A S P I R I N

> Relieves headache caused by a man who can't remember your birthday, anniversary, phone number, or to lift the toilet seat.

>

A N T I-T A L K S I N

> A spray carried in a purse, to be used on anyone too eager to share  their life stories with total strangers in elevators.

>

> N A G A M E T

> When administered to a boyfriend or husband, provides the same irritation level as nagging him would, without your having to go to all that trouble yourself!

**** Just got this from a buddy via email. Made a few changes. Enjoy.****
Title: Anything
Post by: Lara on April 03, 2005, 05:24:16 AM
Stormchild, I love it!

Warm wishes to you and Sophie,
Lara.
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 04, 2005, 09:22:29 AM
Gave me a good giggle this morning Stormy!!

Thanks so much!!

No time to read much because I'm so late and gotta get my butt in gear but I'm glad I peaked in here on my way out today!!

Thanks again!!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 07, 2005, 09:20:34 AM
Vice Presidents and personnel directors of the one hundred largest
corporations were asked to describe their most unusual experience
interviewing prospective employees.  Here are some of those:

  * A job applicant challenged the interviewer to an arm wrestle.

  * Interviewee wore a Walkman, explaining that she could listen to the
interviewer and the music at the same time.

  * Candidate fell and broke arm during interview.

  * Candidate announced she hadn't had lunch and proceeded to eat a
hamburger and french fries in the interviewers office.

  * Candidate explained that her long-term goal was to replace the
interviewer.

  * Balding Candidate excused himself and returned to the office a few
minutes later wearing a headpiece.

  * Applicant said if he was hired he would demonstrate his loyalty by
having the corporate logo tattooed on his forearm.

  * Applicant interrupted interview to phone her therapist for advice on how
to answer specific interview questions.

  * Candidate brought large dog to interview.

  * Applicant refused to sit down and insisted on being interviewed standing
up.

  * Candidate dozed off during interview.



  The employers were also asked to list the "most unusual" questions that
have been asked by job candidates.  Here are a some of them:


  * "What is it that you people do at this company?"

  * "What is the company motto?"

  * "Why aren't you in a more interesting business?"

  * "Why do you want references?"

  * "Do I have to dress for the next interview?"

  * "I know this is off the subject, but will you marry me?"

  * "Will the company move my rock collection from California to Maryland?"

  * "Does your health insurance cover pets?"

  * "Does your company have a policy regarding concealed weapons?"

Job hunting anyone?   :D

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 08, 2005, 04:35:07 PM
It's a gorgeous, warm, sunny spring day here today.
The buds are on the trees and plants and the grass is starting to perk up.
The birds are making a huge racket and zipping to and from the bird feeders with great gusto.

I let my puppy out to run for a bit and her turbo kicked in, big time.  She tore around on the grass like the mad hatter, with something like a grin on her face.  What glee!!  She zoomed around and almost ran out of steam...

Then.....she noticed all the birds going to the feeders and back into the trees.  She ran close by and sat, looking up, twisting her head back and forth, watching them, tongue hanging out, but always....her head turning back and forth, watching them, with a look of total wonder and awe!!

This really made me smile today.  My little puppy doesn't understand birds but she's trying so hard.  And she looks so cute...trying.

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 08, 2005, 04:39:55 PM
Thanks GFN,
Its half rain and half snow here. Your post makes it seem like a beautiful day, if I don't look out the window. :roll:  :D

mudpup[/quote]
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 08, 2005, 04:40:51 PM
GFN

Your puppy sounds so cute!  

It wasn't  mudpuppy was it?  :wink:
I can't remember who was dreaming about mud.  

Glad you had a wonderful day.

Mia
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 08, 2005, 05:48:59 PM
Jeez,
What is this? First I'm a shrimp flopping around in the mud with a fig leaf on and my big ears flinging dirt to and fro.
Now I'm a little she-dog tearing up the lawn chasing birds.
And Brigid thought I was gonna get a big head?
I might get an inferiority complex instead. :wink:  :lol:

mud
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on April 08, 2005, 06:36:28 PM
Mudpup,

Quote
And Brigid thought I was gonna get a big head?
I might get an inferiority complex instead.


I have no fear of this happening.   :wink:

GFN,
Thanks for the discussion on the birds.  That reminded me that I need to go and get some seed.  Since all the snow melted (finally) while we were gone, I can now get to my feeders.

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: mum as guest on April 08, 2005, 07:09:35 PM
Thanks, GFN: I just read and thoroughly appreciated your little vignette of your puppy discovering birds.  As a dog afficionado, I was right there with you, feeling that.  THANKS (dogs are awesome, huh?)
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 08, 2005, 09:18:04 PM
Quote
Its half rain and half snow here. Your post makes it seem like a beautiful day, if I don't look out the window.
 

I offer my deepest sympathies (sucker!!!  :twisted: )

Quote
Your puppy sounds so cute!

It wasn't mudpuppy was it?  
I can't remember who was dreaming about mud.


My puppy is very, very cute and no, it was not mudpuppy, and yes, that was me (and Brigid), who dreamt about him, sloshing around in the mud (something myyyy puppy would nevvvvvver do!!)

Hope your day was fabulous!
 
Quote
I might get an inferiority complex instead.  

mud

 
Don't do that!  Then we'll have to help you get over it!!  Too much work!
   
Quote
I have no fear of this happening.


Me either, really.  I think we need to dream some more about him and see if we can do more to prevent it though, just in case.

Quote
That reminded me that I need to go and get some seed. Since all the snow melted (finally) while we were gone, I can now get to my feeders.


Brigid, go gurlie!  Those birdies are awaitin'!! :D
 
Quote
(dogs are awesome, huh?)


They sure are Mum!  I'm taking lessons from mine!  But I'm a slow learner. :roll:

Have a good week end all!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on April 08, 2005, 11:34:02 PM
GFN,

Quote
Me either, really. I think we need to dream some more about him and see if we can do more to prevent it though, just in case.


Hmmm, I wonder how he would appear in our next dream?  Can't guarantee that "G" rating.  :lol:   I'll see if I can conjure up an image during my slumber tonight.  Maybe I'll keep a pencil and paper next to the bed just in case (wouldn't want to forget any of the juicy details). :wink:  :oops:  :twisted:

Have a lovely weekend away.  I hope its for lots of fun.

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 09, 2005, 10:48:30 AM
I was trying to think of how to respond to these posts but couldn't come up with anything other than.... :oops:  :oops:  :oops:

Good weekend to you gals too. :D

mudpuppy
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on April 09, 2005, 11:22:01 AM
GFN & Mudpuppy,
I actually did dream about a puppy, but it was the four-legged variety and no mud was involved (sorry Mud).  I was trying to rescue it from falling down a hole that was occupied by some other mean kind of animal that wanted to hurt it.  Maybe subconsciously I want to rescue you, Mud, although I think you are doing fine by yourself.  

Maybe I should have posted this on the dream thread so someone could interpret it for me (October is good at that).

I hope your weekend is good too.

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 09, 2005, 12:01:29 PM
Quote
I might get an inferiority complex instead
.  

We wouldn't want that to happen.  You're too valuable to this board.
You're one cool pup!  8)

Mia
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 09, 2005, 12:22:22 PM
Hi Brigid,
I think you should post it over on the dream thread. It sounds like it could mean a lot of things.
Just don't put any over there that have me in them.  :oops:
Is it possible to run out of blushing emoticons?

Mia,
Thank you. Its nice to have my big head appreciated.  :roll:  

mudpup
Title: Anything
Post by: October on April 10, 2005, 06:09:31 AM
Quote from: Brigid
(October is good at that).

Brigid


Thanks, Brigid!!!  Just for you, then:

You are both the puppy (cute, adorable, fluffy, innocent, likes chewing carpets etc etc) and the rescuer.  Mudpuppy just provides the imagery; the metaphor.  But the dream is about you. (Imo.)  

Hope that helps.  xxxx
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on April 10, 2005, 09:34:06 AM
Thank YOU October, now I don't have to rewrite on the dream thread.  I like being thought of as cute and adorable--not so sure about the carpet chewing, tho.  That must only apply to the Mudpuppy.  :wink:

Good to see you back.  :P

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2005, 09:41:20 AM
SPECIAL FOR MUM:

TEACHERS
========

After being interviewed by the school administration, the eager
teaching prospect said:

"Let me see if I've got this right.

You want me to go into that room with all those kids and fill
their every waking moment with a love for learning.   And I'm
supposed to instill a sense of pride in their ethnicity, modify
their disruptive behavior, observe them for signs of abuse and
even censor their T-shirt messages and dress habits.

You want me to wage a war on drugs and sexually transmitted
diseases, check their backpacks for weapons of mass destruction,
and raise their self-esteem.

You want me to teach them patriotism, good citizenship,
sportsmanship, and fair play, how and where to register to vote,
how to balance a checkbook, and how to apply for a job.

I am to check their heads for lice, maintain a safe environment,
recognize signs of antisocial behavior, offer advice, write
letters of recommendation for student employment and
scholarships, encourage respect for their elders and future
employers.

And I am to communicate regularly with the parents by letter,
telephone, newsletter, and report card.

All of this I am to do with just a piece of chalk, a computer, a
few books, a bulletin board, and a big smile AND on a starting
salary that qualifies my family for food stamps!

You want me to do all of this, and you expect me NOT TO MENTION PRAYER?"

~Teacher Unknown~


GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 13, 2005, 01:27:32 PM
Mud's pain in the anatomy comment reminded me of this one:



The  Mole  Family

-- A mama mole, a papa mole, and a baby mole all live in a  little mole hole.

One day the papa mole sticks his head out of the hole,  sniffs the air and says,"Yum! I smell maple syrup!"

The mama mole sticks her head out of the hole, sniffs  the air and says "Yum! I smell honey!"

The baby mole tries to stick his head out of the hole to sniff the air, but can't because the bigger moles are in the way so he says,

"Geez, all I can smell is....

 

 

Scroll down.......

 

 

Get ready.....

You may never forgive me for this one...











 

MOLASSES!









(heehee)GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 13, 2005, 01:31:54 PM
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Nothing to forgive. Hilarious.

mud
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on April 13, 2005, 02:01:26 PM
GFN,

I loved it.   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I also loved you teacher poem.  That would be good to use during Teacher Appreciation Week which is coming up in May.  I will pass it along.

I hope you had a good weekend away.  You were missed.  :cry:

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 13, 2005, 03:59:21 PM
I thought it was pretty funny too, Mud!  Gave me a real good laugh, it did!!

Hey Brigid......great idea about teacher appreication week!  And thanks for saying I was missed.   Gave me one of those warm fuzzy feelings (picture a little fuzzy emoticon in a fur coat). :D

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 13, 2005, 05:14:37 PM
This is for Mud (and whoever else interested):

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/6756/gwn.htm

These guys are goofs who made a lot of money making fun of Cannuck stuff.  They're kind of old news now but were quite the big stars....almost...at one time...eh?

They made a movie called:  "Strange Brew" which is what some people call entirely a waste of video tape but others, like me, say it's ridiculous humour (Herman Munster style)!!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 13, 2005, 05:55:02 PM
Thanks for the mole joke. I needed a laugh. :D

I'm new to this sight as of yesterday, which means I've been sharing my story of my N. Depressing :cry:

Glad to see some fun spots in between the seriousness!!
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 13, 2005, 06:24:32 PM
Hey GFN,
I love the McKenzie brothers.  :lol: They started out as a skit on Second City Television. That show was unbelievably funny. It sure graduated a lot of stars. But I think they were all funnier on the show itself. They still show it down here occasionally.
Does anyone remember Count Floyd?

See, Canada does produce more than just beer and moose. :wink:

mudpuppy
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 13, 2005, 07:23:39 PM
Muddyboy,

I'm still laughing about the teeth on the other thread!!

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Bob and Doug need you to coach them!!!  I mean it!!

(cough!  Choke!!  another big Snort!!! :lol:  :lol:  :lol: )

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 14, 2005, 09:15:26 AM
Good Morning all:

I'm rushing out this morning but I thought I'd post this, that someone sent me, awhile back.  I thought it was nice.


Don't judge a life by one difficult season...  

There was a man who had four sons. He wanted his sons to learn to not judge things too quickly. So he sent them each on a quest, in turn, to go and look at a pear tree that was a great distance away. The first son went in the winter, the second in the spring, the third in summer, and the youngest son in the fall.  

When they had all gone and come back, he called them together to describe what they had seen. The first son said that the tree was ugly, bent, and twisted. The second son said no--it was covered with green buds and full of promise. The third son disagreed, he said it was laden with blossoms that smelledd so sweet and looked so beautiful, it was the most graceful thing he had ever seen. The last son disagreed with all of them; he said it was ripe and drooping with fruit, full of life and fulfillment.  

The man then explained to his sons that they were all right, because they had each seen but one season in the tree's life. He told them that you cannot judge a tree, or a person, by only one season, and that the essence of who they are--and the pleasure, joy, and love that come from that life--can only be measured at the end, when all the seasons are up.  

If you give up when it's winter, you will miss the promise of your spring, the beauty of your summer, fulfillment of your fall. Don't let the pain of one season destroy the joy of all the rest.  

Author Unknown

Enjoy your day all!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Learning on April 14, 2005, 09:17:11 AM
Hi GFN and All-

GFN,

OMG...thanks for triggering a great memory.  My sister and I watched Strange Brew when we were teenagers and walked around saying "eh?" after every sentence for months.  

I also enjoyed the teacher piece.  H is a HS teacher and I shared it with him.  He could relate!

Ciao,
Learning
Title: Anything
Post by: mum as guest on April 14, 2005, 11:30:48 AM
GFN: re: the teacher thing:
THANKS! So we can't "pray" with kids, but let me tell you WE certainly pray!!!!(you should hear us...usually along the lines of "please let this day be over")
Another side of this:
As an art teacher, it's hard to avoid spirituality and religion, especially if you want art to have ANY context at all.... I've been challenged for discussing Renaissance, Medieval, Native American, African and other cultures and time periods and art movements....why? Because religion and spiritual beliefs are PART of the deal......cannot be avoided!!! Good news, I can usually explain respectfully, and people come around... or a kid can "opt out" (they never do).
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 14, 2005, 04:36:17 PM
Quote
Glad to see some fun spots in between the seriousness!!


Glad you like it Guest.  Welcome! :D
 
Quote
See, Canada does produce more than just beer and moose.  /quote]
 
Oh yes Mud!  And we eat more than back bacon and doughnuts too eh?

I have made great attempts to see a moose.  Lived here all of my life.  Trecked through Crown Land (bush) and driven up highways to nowhere and still haven't spotted one! (frustration icon).

My cousin, who I used to go on cannoe trips with, once saw 72 moose on one trip!!! :shock:  :shock:   He's the winner at moose spotting!! 8)

Quote
OMG...thanks for triggering a great memory. My sister and I watched Strange Brew when we were teenagers and walked around saying "eh?" after every sentence for months.


Hey Learning!  Good to hear from ya again!

Ya.  That movie was pretty funny eh?  I was a teenager too and I remember a whole group of us went to see it.   What a joke! :D  :D

Another movie I thought was halarious but cannot, for the life of me, find anywhere is:

"The Nude Bomb"

With Get Smart and Chaos and the gang!  Chaos had this bomb and if they dropped it, the whole world would suddenly be nude!  Agent 86 had a desk from h*ll (it turned into just about every gadget imaginable).  I was a big "Get Smart" fan!!!

Quote
I also enjoyed the teacher piece. H is a HS teacher and I shared it with him. He could relate!


Glad to hear it!  All the best to you Learning! :D

Quote
I've been challenged for discussing Renaissance, Medieval, Native American, African and other cultures and time periods and art movements....why? Because religion and spiritual beliefs are PART of the deal......cannot be avoided!!! Good news, I can usually explain respectfully, and people come around... or a kid can "opt out" (they never do).


Isn't this world getting crazy??  You can't discuss religion but you can talk all you want about safe sex etc. (maybe that's an exageration but not far off). :roll:

Quote
I went to Canada once, I couldn't get "eh" outta my mind for months! It really amused me. Thanks for the memory-it was a happy time.


Hiya Sunshine!

Ya...you really hear that a lot up north.

Reminds me of when I visited small town Iowa once, and noticed so many people said:

"Uh huh" instead of yes, yep, or ya and "Youuuuu bet!" was another, often combined.  I found it a very warm and inviting way of speaking.  Kept it up quite awhile after I got back and still do it once in awhile.   :D  :D

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on April 15, 2005, 08:52:32 AM
Mum, GFN,

Quote
As an art teacher, it's hard to avoid spirituality and religion, especially if you want art to have ANY context at all.... I've been challenged for discussing Renaissance, Medieval, Native American, African and other cultures and time periods and art movements....why? Because religion and spiritual beliefs are PART of the deal......cannot be avoided!!!


My son was very active in chorus during all four years of high school (still sings in a choir in college).  Every year the choir teacher would have to send out a disclaimer to all parents explaining that some of the music they would be singing would have a religious component because in order to study the masters, it was just a necessity.  It is so pathetic that it is necessary to explain that to people to avoid the possible complaints that someone's child might have to sing the word God or Heaven or whatever.  I guess it goes back to my ridiculous reasons to be offended thread.

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 15, 2005, 02:28:36 PM
For sure Brigid!!

Speaking of which, mentioning God, I think I will.   To those who do not believe in God, I think this might still be of some value to you, if you substitute the name God/Christ etc with some other positive force of your choosing.  I found it some where on this board and copied and saved without taking note of where (sorry).  

It was posted by someone named Sadgirl, who wrote that she found it in a book called:    "The power of a praying woman" by Stormie Omartian.

"Choose your thoughts carefully

You have a choice about what you will accept into your mind and what
you won't. You can choose to take every thought captive and "let this
mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus" (Philippians 2:5), or
you can allow the devil to feed you lies and manipulate your life.

Every sin begins as a thought in the mind. "For from within, out of
the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornicators,
murderers, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an
evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness" (Mark 7:21-22).

If you don't take control of your mind, the devil will. That's why you must be diligent to monitor what you allow into your mind. What TV shows,
magazines, and books do you look at? What music, radio programs, or
CDs do you listen to?

Do they fill your mind with godly thoughts and feed your spirit so you feel enriched, clear-minded, peaceful, and blessed or do they deplete you and leave you feeling empty, confused,anxious, and fearful?   "God is not the author of confusion but of peace" (1 Corinthians 14:33). When we fill our minds with God's Word and godly books and magazines written by people in whom God's Spirit resides, and we listen to music that praises and glorifies Him, we leave no room for the enemy's propaganda."

Maybe that could be extended to include....all kinds of positive books, movies, music, people etc?  Those things bring me comfort and joy.

Have a peaceful week end everyone.  I'm off to the greater white north before the black flies descend upon me!! :shock:

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mudpuppy on April 15, 2005, 02:39:52 PM
Thanks for the post GFN.
My wife has that book. I love the author's name, 'Stormie O'Martian'.
Brings up a lot of visualizations for me.

mudpup
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 15, 2005, 02:46:01 PM
Which reminds me......My favorite martian!!

(Not the movie......the show).

Anybody watch it!!  I loved that show!!! :D

That's where the great gazooo, on The Flintstones, was patterened after.

Thanks Mud.  Yes.  Visualizations.  Powerful stuff eh?

Have a great one! :D

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on April 15, 2005, 03:07:00 PM
GFN,
Gosh it is so difficult to type around this big orange cat!! :shock:

Thank you for sharing that poem.  I'm hoping I can figure out how to copy and paste it for future reference.  I think my therapist, who is an Episcopal priest, would enjoy it, if he doesn't already own the book.

I loved "My Favorite Martian."  What the heck is the Great Gazoo?  Must be a Canadian thing. (along with the moose, backbacon, and the McKenzie Bros., eh?)  :P

Have fun in The Great White North. :D

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 18, 2005, 10:09:47 AM
Hi everyone:

Hey Brigid!  Why not teach your cat to type?   ( :D  :D  :D )

Quote

I loved "My Favorite Martian." What the heck is the Great Gazoo? Must be a Canadian thing.


The Great Gazoo is a little martian that used to pop into Fred and Barney's lives, sometimes, on the show:  "The Flintstones".  He called them "Dum Dums" but always ended up helping them out of whatever jam they got themselves into (out of pity??) :? .

I don't know if that only happened in Canada or not but I do know Red Rose Tea bags do!! ("Only in Canada eh? :roll:  "Pity").

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Portia on April 18, 2005, 10:28:44 AM
GFN, this is the ‘anything’ thread? Sooooooo, can I ask anything?

Re: your moose-spotting trials, have you ever looked for mooses/mice/moosi on – and this is going to seem a crazy question maybe – on highway 144?  I ask because of someone I used to know online and to be honest, I have wondered if you were the same online person! Sorry it’s cryptic but I'd like to know but also not say any more.
 :?

Brigid:

Highlight or select text and then hold down Ctrl and hit C (that copies to your clipboard).

Then position where you want the text to go and hold down Ctrl and hit V (that pastes it into your word processing program). I hope....
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 19, 2005, 09:33:09 AM
Erma Bombeck, who lost her fight with cancer, gave me joy through her writings.  


  IF I HAD MY LIFE TO LIVE OVER - by Erma Bombeck


  (written after she found out she was dying from cancer).

 I would have gone to bed when I was sick instead of pretending the
earth would go into a holding pattern if I weren't there for the day.

I would have burned the pink candle sculpted like a rose before it
melted in storage.

I would have talked less and listened more.

I would have invited friends over to dinner even if the carpet was
stained, or the sofa faded.

I would have eaten the popcorn in the 'good' living room and worried
much less about the dirt when someone wanted to light a fire in the
fireplace.

I would have taken the time to listen to my grandfather ramble about his youth.

 I would have shared more of the responsibility carried by my husband.

  I would never have insisted the car windows be rolled up on a summer
day because my hair had just been teased and sprayed.

I would have sat on the lawn with my grass stains.

I would have cried and laughed less while watching television and
more while watching life.

I would never have bought anything just because it was practical,
wouldn't show soil, or was guaranteed to last a lifetime.

Instead of wishing away nine months of pregnancy, I'd have cherished
every moment and realized that the wonderment growing inside me was
the only chance in life to assist God in a miracle.

When my kids kissed me impetuously, I would never have said, "Later.
Now go get washed up for dinner." There would have been more "I love
you's." More "I'm sorry's."

But mostly, given another shot at life, I would seize every
minute...look at it and really see it .. live it and never give it
back.


GFN


PS:  That's a trecherous road, P.  Lot's of twists and turns, and loaded with gorgeous, awesome rock cuts, and littered with moose.  They say it's dangerous to drive it, especially between 7 pm and sunset because pretty well everyone who does, takes a chance on hitting a moose.  They walk out from behind rocks and just stand there, in the middle of the highway.  "Be careful...slow down on the bends!"  They say.  "You'll wreck your car!"  All the people I know, who've driven that road, have seen at least one moose.  All except me.
Title: Anything
Post by: P on April 19, 2005, 09:54:05 AM
Good post GFN, thanks. I bet if you do ever see a moose, as you almost wipe it off the highway, it will turn and smile at you. I imagine they're pretty tolerant and calm animals. I've not seen a moose either (no surprises there) but I have seen a small wild brown bear in Greece. Fantastic! :D And it was far enough away so that I didn't turn into a jelly-kneed idiot. That came later when we were chased down the village street by some very aggresive cows. Yes really. Now that was scary. Never underestimate cows! bye for now, Portia
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 19, 2005, 10:07:30 AM
Hiya Portia:

Reminds me of a book I read by the wife of the first govener around here, waaaaaaay back in the pioneer days.   She came straight from a wealthy brit household to the Canadian backwoods, having to tolerate severe discomforts afforded such times, with her husband, to start a new life, in a new land, on their own bush property.  She put up with everything from bears in her garden to the threat of being scalped by Natives with such bravery... but the one thing she was terrified of......was the cow!  Absolutely petrified of the cow.  Wouldn't go near it!  Shook like heck when forced to.

I guess she had good reason. :roll:

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: P on April 19, 2005, 10:58:53 AM
GFN, I know you like animals so here are pics of the aforementioned aggressive cows at:  http://creating-love.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk (I have way too much time on my hands.)  Click on pages 1, 2 and 3 for Greek ‘wild’ life. They may look small, but they’re nifty on their feet. Best, Portia
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on April 19, 2005, 11:11:06 AM
Portia,
I appreciate the suggestion on copy and paste, but I can't get it to work.  I'm probably doing something wrong, but I don't know what.   :(

GFN,
I've always loved that piece by Erma Bombeck.  It has been sent to me by friends many times and I never get tired of reading and reflecting on it.

I actually saw a moose when we vacationed in Jackson, Wyo. several years ago.  He was feeding next to a stream a short distance off a main highway.  I have his/her? picture on my bedroom wall as part of a montage from the trip.  We also saw grizzly cubs on that trip--fortunately, not the mom, tho.

I hope your weekend up north was good.  :D

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 19, 2005, 11:15:04 AM
Hi Portia and GFN,
I've been several miles from any other human, alone in my tent and heard some blood curdling noises that I couldn't explain. I've been close to a mountain lion and a few bears. And I've nearly sat on or stepped on several rattlesnakes, but the most scared I've ever been of an animal was when I got between momma cow and newborn baby cow.
Angry momma cows are really, really fast. Fortunately the fence was just close enough to sail over.
Never underestimate cows is right. :?  :shock:

mudpup
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 19, 2005, 09:58:39 PM
Hiya'll:

Hey P!  Thanks for the pics.  I'm afraid I do need specs and can't see 'em real well but I get the idea.  I also peeked at the "stork's nest"!  Whooee!
So that's where storks come from eh?  Please tell us more about your Greece bear?

Hi Brigid:  Did you read many of Erma's books?  Boy!  I remember her saving my sanity more than once, when my guys were little!  She taught me not to be so serious!   Otherwise, I might have ended up being one of those stone-faced-bald parents (after pulling out all of my hair). :D

Lucky you for seeing that moose!  Did he smile at you?  Did he at least smile while you took his picture?  Wow!  And grizzly cubs too!  Aren't they sweet?   I'd be headin' for the hills if I saw mama though!  Wonder what happened to her? :(

And Mudbrother!  How the heck did you almost manage to ....sit....on several rattlesnakes???  You have one lucky arse!!!   8) I think the mountain lion woulda been my scariest moment!  Those fellas will jump you just for entertainment value!

I haven't had any close calls with cows but that's because the closest I usually get to them is the bar-b-que. :(

And those blood curdling noises in the bush!  I've heard some of those too.  What the heck are they?  Nobody seems to know. (I tend to think...."Deliverance".....just slightly paranoid eh?).

Well.....here I thought I had a pretty good bear story (I've only had close encounters with big old black bears).  But.....I can't top almost sitting on several rattlesnakes or flying over fences with mad cows after me.  I doubt many can. :shock:

Aw well.....there's still time...I think?? :shock:  :?  :roll: But I'm a city slicker camper now.....only going to my safer than any tent cabin in the woods.  Still....I did have a disagreement with a porcupine once.   :oops:  

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on April 19, 2005, 10:24:42 PM
GFN,
Quote
Still....I did have a disagreement with a porcupine once.


Hopefully, you did not almost sit on it like Mudboy did with the rattlers.  Now THAT could be a REAL pain in the arse.  :lol:  :lol:

I have not read any of Erma's books, but they have been on my list for a few years.  Too many others just keep climbing up to the top, however.

I don't think anything bad happened to the mama grizzly.  She may have been lurking around or maybe they had been kicked out of the den and told to make it on their own.  :roll: I know a few parents who would be wise to do that same thing.   :wink:

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 20, 2005, 04:33:56 PM
Hi all!

Brigid:

No.  I did not almost sit on that porcupine and I will gladly tell that little tale, some time, if anyone wants to hear it but NOT  until my brother, Mudbuddy, tells us alllll about how NOT to sit on rattlesnakes (and I don't think he's in the mood for that right now but I'm quite willing....to wait!! :D )

In the meantime, I found this.....to help us all ease our stress:



Stress Management Technique
 
In case you've had a rough day, I would like to recommend the following stress management technique that has been recommended in all the latest psychological texts. The funny thing is that it really works.
 
1. Picture yourself near a stream.
 
2. Birds are softly chirping in the cool mountain air .
 
3. No one but you knows your secret place.
 
4. You are in total seclusion from the hectic place called "the world"!
 
5. The soothing sound of a gentle waterfall fills the air with a cascade of serenity.
 
6. The water is crystal clear.
 
7. You can easily make out the face of the person you're holding underwater.
 
See! You're smiling already.

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 20, 2005, 05:32:58 PM
Hi GFN, Portia, et al, as the lawyers say,

Quote
and I don't think he's in the mood for that right now but I'm quite willing....to wait!!

GFN,
Your post on the dreams thread actually helped me out. I have faith October will know I wasn't directing anything at her. She's a kind and sympathetic lady. Wait a minute....
(((((October)))))
Hope that helps.

I said I almost sat or stepped on several rattlers. I only almost sat on onlyone, that I'm aware of.
When I was a mere pup I was playing in the dirt as was my wont (still is), when I decided to fetch a more proficient digging implement. Upon my return I espied a mere pup of a rattlesnake coiled up not six inches from where my hind most parts had been suspended over his fortunately dozing noggin. He was soon sleeping with the fishes, as our Sicilian friends say.
All other encounters have been by foot or bicycle; three I can think of being within about six inches of treading on the rascals.
As far as mountain lions, I had one cross right in front of my truck a few years back and then while in the woods a couple of years ago I heard but never saw one pretty darn close. I only realized what it was after I saw the tracks.
The unidentified noises I think were also mountain lions. They let out some gawdawful squawks at times.
I was also once attacked, in my truck, for approximately 15 minutes by an amorous grouse. However that story will have to wait until after we hear about GFN's close encounter of the porcupine kind.

mudpup
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on April 20, 2005, 05:53:42 PM
GFN & Mudpup,

  I am taking a break from pouring over the hundreds (probably thousands) of sheets of paper in regard to the financial aspect of my divorce.  We are meeting with the mediator tomorrow and I want to be as prepared as possible.  Even though I pay my attorney a fortune and he hired a forensic accountant, (to whom I have also paid a great deal) I still feel like I need to point things out to these guys as I am so familiar with how the business operates.  

I really needed a laugh right now and I knew you two would be up to the challenge.

GFN said:

Quote
7. You can easily make out the face of the person you're holding underwater.


I most certainly can.   :twisted:  What a great stress reliever.  Thank you for that serene image.   Its probably easier than pounding sand up his a$$.

 :shock:

Mudpuppy said:

Quote
I was also once attacked, in my truck, for approximately 15 minutes by an amorous grouse.


Now this I gotta hear.  GFN, hurry up and tell the porcupine story so Muddy has to tell us about the amorous grouse.  Were you particularly feathery that day Muddy?  Or was it a blind grouse?  You must give off some very interesting pheromones (sp?). :roll:

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Stormchild Guesting on April 20, 2005, 06:09:48 PM
The Amorous Grouse?

Sounds like a British rock band.
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 21, 2005, 12:35:43 AM
Welll...ok but it's not a very exciting story.  I'm only telling it because I want Muddy to cheer up and because I too am dying to hear about this military grouse.  

Although my tale does have things in common with yours about the arse Mud, like sitting... and almosts... and mountain lion-like beings (well that wasn't the same story but who's counting)...and stuff.
And I was an full grown person, not a little tyke like you, at the time, Mud.

There had been warnings about a bob cat in the area.  We don't have mountain lions but we do have cougars and bob cats.   They're pretty big cats and they like to eat just about anything, or anybody who looks interesting or like it might be fun to play with.  Anyway, one was spotted close to my cabin and I was told about it.

I have this really bad habit of liking to sit outside, when it's really late and dark, and nobody's around,... listening to the sounds and gazing at the stars and the sparkling water.  So, on this particular night in question, that's what I was doing.  Kids were snoring inside the cabin.  Dog snoring inside, in time with kids.  Me, sitting in chair, by the door, just outside of the cabin, keenly enjoying the night and it's wonders.

Except this night I had forgotten to put the bar-b-que back in the shed (where it is kept, after use, to avoid attracting bears and such).  It was dark enough... but light enough to see a couple pair of legs...thick, strong, hairy bob cat-like legs..stepping behind the bar-b-que.  The rest of the body was hidden by that handy gadget.

At this point, most normal people would have high tailed it inside and awakened the dog.  But not me.  Oh no.  That curiosity gets me almost killed every time!!!  Almost.

So, I stay there sitting and watching and waiting for Mr. Bob to waltz out and give me a good look at him.  I want to see him and enjoy him for just a moment before I speed-leap inside (I'm stupidly confident in my speed-leaping abilities).

The legs move...and you guessed it...it wasn't Mr. Bob at all, it was a lovely porcupine.  He walked toward me.  Beady little eyes glaring right into mine.  Almost smiling at me.  He was about 10, maybe 12 feet away when I decided that was quite close enough thankyou.  So I stood up.

He didn't care.  He kept coming.  "Get lost!"  I ordered in my firm, assertive scare-away porcupine voice.

Notta.  On toward me he walked.  He was about 2 feet, 1 inch, 3mm away when I decided to stamp the ground with my stinky feet and roar at him, raising my arms high and waving my hands, to look like a giant and the biggest threat to all porcupines ever known!!!  As soon as I did this, I grabbed a fair sized stick (one I kept handy just for an occasion such as this) and smashed on the ground, by my foot, and it broke.  A piece flew off in some direction away from both of us.  We both watched it go.

No effect whatsoever.  Onward he came, except now he raised his pines to their extreme position.  What a display!!  Magnificent!!!  Wonderous!!  No wonder he's not afraid of much.  Those things are truly nasty looking up close!!!  Too darn close!!!  12 inches or less!!   Woopsie!!

I decided instantly that he had won the argument.  "Ok, you win!", I said.  He was coming my way and I exitted very quickly and quietly.  Gave him his space, (which was my space but who's counting that either), as he was obviously demanding it.  He moseyed around for awhile and then....waddled off to some other place better.

I was a tad nervous about going back out but I did it, after awhile.  I put the bar b que in the shed to sleep.  And I haven't forgotten to do it since.

Neither snoring dog nor child awoke to save me.  No one heard my ferocious stamping and roaring or desperate stick breaking.  So I found a large, hard-wood-4inch thick-beaver-chewed-taller-than-me-good-solid-seemingly-less-breakable-stick, the next day.   Put a good coat of Sikens on it.

And there it stands beside the door and my chair.  When people ask I say:

"Oh that's my porcupine-disagreement-dog-fight-breaking-up bear-nose-poking-bob-cat-striking stick.  I keep there just in case."

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 21, 2005, 01:01:09 AM
It's late and I almost forgot:

Good luck tomorrow Brigid!!  My prayers for you tonight my dear sister!

And for you too Mud.  ((((Brigid)))  ((((Mudpuppy))))

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 21, 2005, 05:44:25 PM
Stormchild wrote:

Quote
The Amorous Grouse?

Sounds like a British rock band.


Sorry I was too tired to post any more last night but I wanted to add:

Ya.  :D  Now can you picture that??? :shock:   Or maybe....the Grouse was one of those rockin' types? 8)

Did he have armor on, or an electric guitar on his hip, Mud??

Now I'm really curious??? :roll:

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 21, 2005, 07:45:04 PM
Good evening all,

                                  The Amorous Grouse
                                       A Love Story

                                            sort of

First, while the protagonist of our story was in a very agitated state brought on by his raging hormones no doubt, you would be mistaken if you thought that I was the object of his affection.

Quite the contrary; he looked upon me as an intruding Lothario. A threat to his lady fair, whom he had apparently stashed away out of sight.
While she may have been pining for me and for all I know quite voluptuous, I have never felt particularly attracted to any of our fine feathered friends, with the exception of those that are baked, broiled, fried, breaded, fricasseed or otherwise immobile, plucked, cooked and awaiting my fork.
And so began our epic struggle alone and unwitnessed......

 I was slowly driving down a dirt road out in the woods one spring day when I saw something dash across the road in front of my truck. I stopped and leaned over to the passenger window and looked down to see a rather cross looking grouse. I'm not sure what made him look cross but it was unmistakable.
I leaned back to my side and started to get out to see what was up with this little fart of a bird. (a grouse is about the size of a small chicken)
As I put my boot out to step down, the little bugger came out from under the truck and delivered a tremendous blow to my boot with his beak. Well as tremendous as a bird the size of a small chicken is able.
A tad bit taken aback, I retracted said boot and closed my door. Looking out my window I got the distinct impression his nibs intended to join me in the cab of my pickup momentarily. I hastily rolled up my window, mainly to prevent him from injuring himself if he got in the cab but also because that whack on my boot was pretty stout.
Just as my window closed he assumed a perch on my mirror and began knocking the tar out of my window with his beak, about an inch from my nose.
Somewhat stymied, he worked his way around to my windshield, took a grip on my windshield wipers, and began bashing my windshield with the same disappointing results, at least from his perspective.
He eventually fluttered up on to the top of my cab gave a few whacks and then onto the bed rail. He spent several minutes probing for weaknesses in my defenses at various points on my truck. Finally he jumped down off the back at which point I figured I should take off before he hurt himself. I got about a hundred yards up the road and looked in my rear view mirror. The little nut was about fifty yards behind me, mobating up the road as fast as his little feet would carry him, his head jerking from side to side. I took off around the turn and stopped about a hundred yards farther up the road again. Presently, tilting to the side to compensate for his speed, he came screaming around the turn, his little feet a blur.
Again I took off.
He stopped.
I stopped.
He started up after me again .
 I took off.
He stopped.
I stopped.
The same result.
I finally figured he would die of a heart attack if I didn't leave, so I did.

Because I high tailed it out of his territory, he was no doubt the victor, although I'm sure his lady friend was sore disappointed to see me leave. Evidently I'm irresistable  to any member of the fairer sex. :P  :roll:  :P

I never saw his missus but she must have been one hot mama, considering the effort he undertook to eject me.
Evidently he was a breast man; if you've ever seen a grouse's legs you know why. They never shave.

So if you're ever out in grouse territory in the spring with a man, make sure you're carrying something like GFN's porcupine stick. Oh, and a frying pan might come in handy also. Maybe some onions and garlic. A little olive oil. Some marsala sauce would probably finish him off just nicely.
                                           The End

As you can tell I got my phone calls and paperwork done early today and had a little time to kill.
I hope it was everything everyone dreamed it was. It sounded a lot more boring in the retelling than in real life.

mudpup
Title: Anything
Post by: Stormchild Guesting on April 21, 2005, 08:28:43 PM
Snort, giggle, giggle, snort, muffled howl, snort.

Twice.

First, envisioning that tiny little Yosemite Sam screeching to a halt at the end of the logging road, watching your dust plume trail off into the distance, and shaking a nonexistent fist in your general direction while hollering, "Right! and STAY out!"

At the same time, I have this image of an entire (male) rock band whaling away at various bits of your truck with their guitars, drumsticks, microphones... with no idea on earth of why they feel compelled to do it, man, it just seemed, like, totally natural at the time, you know? Obviously the truck emerges entirely unharmed, not so the instruments, and when everything is held together by strings, splinters, and wires they all look at each other, shrug, and wander off into the brush... on the back of all their t-shirts is the band's logo, "The Amorous Grouse", which is, of course, a little bitty teeny weeny bird, hightailing it after a logging truck.

What color's your truck, mud? Do ruffed grouse males have a chest or tailfeather display of a certain color? You might have waaaaaay outclassed the boy.

Snort giggle snort snort giggle giggle giggle....
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on April 21, 2005, 11:28:22 PM
Mudboy,
Since I am reading your Tale of Two Feathers right before going nighty-night, I have a sneaking suspicion that I may have a dream about you again tonight.  But rather than rolling in the mud, frollicking and laughing, I think you will be strutting your tail feathers  trying to attract yo new mama.  :o

OK I'm too tired for this.  I'll keep the pen close by.

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 22, 2005, 10:38:33 AM
Thanks for the story Mud!

What an amazing writer you are!!!  I want your next book, please, please, pretty please!!!  Too funny and vivid!  As far as grouse (grice??) stories go......that's the best I've heard yet!!  Sure beats my one little experience of seeing one on a similar dirt road and watching him display himself for his mate (dance for all of us, in the middle of the road).  They're such cool birdies aren't they?? 8)

Quote
At the same time, I have this image of an entire (male) rock band whaling away at various bits of your truck with their guitars, drumsticks, microphones... with no idea on earth of why they feel compelled to do it, man, it just seemed, like, totally natural at the time, you know? Obviously the truck emerges entirely unharmed, not so the instruments, and when everything is held together by strings, splinters, and wires they all look at each other, shrug, and wander off into the brush... on the back of all their t-shirts is the band's logo, "The Amorous Grouse", which is, of course, a little bitty teeny weeny bird, hightailing it after a logging truck.


Stormy, you have one of the most extensive imaginations I have ever seen written in bytes.  May I please have your next book too??  Please, please, pretty please, as well?

Brigid:

Quote
I may have a dream about you again tonight. But rather than rolling in the mud, frollicking and laughing, I think you will be strutting your tail feathers trying to attract yo new mama :lol:


If so, I hope you will post it on the dream thread so it can be properly analyzed and all value/meaning/etc excised and brought into good view!!

 :D  :shock:  8)

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 26, 2005, 09:56:20 AM
I don't think......I've posted this here yet....have I???


SIPPING VODKA


A new priest at his first mass was so nervous he could hardly speak.


After mass he asked the monsignor how he had done.


The monsignor replied, " When I am worried about getting nervous on the pulpit, I put a glass of vodka next to the water glass. If I start to get nervous, I take a sip."


So next Sunday he took the monsignor’s advice.

At the beginning of the sermon, he got nervous and took a drink.


He proceeded to talk up a storm.


Upon his return to his office after the mass, he found the following note on the door:

Sip the vodka, don’t gulp.

There are 10 commandments, not 12.

There are 12 disciples, not 10.

Jesus was consecrated, not constipated.

Jacob wagered his donkey, he did not bet his ass.

We do not refer to Jesus Christ as the late J.C.

The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not referred to as Daddy, Junior and the spook.

David slew Goliath, he did not kick the sh*t out of him.

When David was hit by a rock and was knocked off his donkey, don’t say he was stoned off his ass.

We do not refer to the cross as the "Big T."

When Jesus broke the bread at the last supper he said, "take this and eat it for it is my body." He did not say " Eat me" .

The Virgin Mary is not called " Mary with the Cherry,.

The recommended grace before a meal is not: Rub-A-Dub-Dub thanks for the grub, Yeah God.

Next Sunday there will be a taffy pulling contest at ST.Peter’s not a peter pulling contest at St. Taffy’s.



Gave me a good giggle! :D

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on April 26, 2005, 11:37:26 AM
Me TOO, GFN.   :lol:  :lol:

Thanks  :!:

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Stormchild Guesting on April 28, 2005, 03:19:45 PM
Hey guys, I had lunch with you today.

There's a very cute boutique mall about 20 minutes from where I live. I went there to pick up a cherished old clock that I'd had repaired, and decided to have lunch first, at a microbrewery-restaurant there.

I've been there before and enjoyed it, but usually I ask to sit outside or in the sunroom, because I'd rather be alone... but today I sat in the main room and had the time of my life.

There were a lot of people there having really nice times together, and I wasn't listening in, but just watching faces, smiles, and so on. And I started playing a nice 'game' - hmm, that one's tall and looks outdoorsy, he's quiet, comfortable with the women friends at his table, I christen thee mudpup. She's quiet, but very classy, neat artistic jewelry, oh I name thee Portia, and thy friend, who's equally classy and brought a novel with her, thee I name October. This fellow looks like a really nice guy. Bright. Aha, he's an engineer, lunching with colleagues, they might be from Goddard. Hmm. Longtire? Oh, now look, how sweet this woman is with her young friend's little children. Look how sweet they both are with their young friends' little children. Hi mum, hi brigid.... and that young friend, that must be mia, and she's chutz.... and on and on, I 'found' GFN, daylily, butterfly, write, everyone...

I can't remember the last time I enjoyed myself half as much, lunch was delicious too; and the neat thing is, by the time I left, about a third of the people in the room smiled at me when I took off (and I smiled back).

I know none of you were really there. But it was so lovely, to pretend that I was in a room full of people as good as you are. That there are such rooms, and such people. May we all find them in our lives.

hugs all.
Title: Anything
Post by: mum as guest on April 28, 2005, 03:31:28 PM
Stormchild: thank you for sharing your lunch!  It made me smile and then cry  a little, for I do feel isolated a bit today, and that made me think I am not so much.
Funny thing is, I do have a young friend who stopped by our school today with her one year old (she used to teach here, and also taught my daughter).  Her little boy is awesome, and he and I had a great time together....
I was telling her about my D and how she is singing in a concert tomorrow night, and she said she and the teacher she is staying with (another co worker and friend, and former teacher of my D) would both come with me to see her.
She couldn't have known how much I hate going to those things alone, especially when my D is at her "dad's" and I have to go and leave without her.  So little tiny miracles like that....and your lunch, build us back up, after we've been kicked down again.  I like to  think more little nice things are coming my way soon.
Title: Anything
Post by: dogbit on April 28, 2005, 03:52:47 PM
Stormy...what a neat thing to do.  The world ain't bad some days, is it!  Bittles
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 28, 2005, 04:14:11 PM
Storm

So how was the food?  

Sounds like you were in good company.  :wink:

Glad you enjoyed your lunch.  :D  

Mia
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 28, 2005, 06:38:28 PM
Stormy,

So that tall, pretty gal sitting by herself, and smiling pleasantly at everyone was you?  8) I wish I'd stopped and said hi. :oops:

Thanks for making my day Stormy.

Sort of like you wove a tapestry for us. :D
Thanks again.

mudpuppy

PS. That's kind of like the idea to get together and share our paintings and music and whatnot on another thread. Oh yeah, and Brigid, don't forget you said you're bringing the food. :wink:  :P Didn't you?
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 28, 2005, 06:44:05 PM
Hi Ya'll:

Stormy:  That was truly beautiful! :D   What a lovely picture you painted for yourself and all who read it!  Was I 29, hour glass figure, with painted nails, thick curls and long flashing eyelashes??  Was I eating anything fishy?

Stormy that wasn't me!!! :shock:  :shock:  But thanks for thinking of me and pretending I was there too.  Actually, I was there, in your head and in your heart, which is almost as good!  Thankyou for inviting me to lunch, Storm, at such a nice place as your head and heart.  It was fabulous!!  Let's do it again soon, ok?  My treat! :D

Mum:  Miracles come in all sizes eh?  (Wish I could coin a phrase like that!!).  That is so nice that you have friends to go with and enjoy your evening, instead of feeling alone and leaving on your own, after it's over.  I'm so glad there are angels!   And some of them visit you!  :D

Quote
I like to think more little nice things are coming my way soon.


I'm sure there will be Mum!  One thing's for sure, as they arrive....you won't miss them!  You have a keen eye for nice little things and you deserve many of them!  ((((Mum)))).

Quote
The world ain't bad some days, is it!


Not 1/2 bad at all with people like you coming along and adding nice things.  Glad you're here, Bittles! :D

There is so much to read on this board and I'm not keeping up.  "So much to do.....so little time", another one of those phrases I didn't coin.    I want to read every thread here and respond to as many as I have anything to add to......but alas......I haven't time.

I just want to say to those who I've posted to and who have responded to me and who I have not posted back to.......

Please forgive me.  I'm sorry that I didn't thank you when you said something nice to me, or answered when you asked a question, or thanked you for adding your thoughts/comments.   I just don't have enough time, right now but I want you to know that I appreciate every word you type and I thank you for taking the time to do that.  I'm trying to read but I like to think over what I want to say before I post (usually), and then it seems I have some other responsibility (in life) that I must attend to and don't get back to write, or I have to disconnect my pc because of something life requires of me.

I just keep thinking about some who might be feeling ignored and rejected when they've bothered to post something and I don't post back and please, please hear that it's my fault...because I'm busy and can't post.....and nothing to do with you.  I guess I've been worrying about it, ever since I told you, Stormy, to stop worrying about it.

How ridiculous is that????? :shock:  :shock:  :?  :oops:

((((((all)))))).

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 28, 2005, 10:35:38 PM
Quote from: Anonymous
There is so much to read on this board and I'm not keeping up.  "So much to do.....so little time", another one of those phrases I didn't coin.    I want to read every thread here and respond to as many as I have anything to add to......but alas......I haven't time.

I just want to say to those who I've posted to and who have responded to me and who I have not posted back to.......

Please forgive me.  I'm sorry that I didn't thank you when you said something nice to me, or answered when you asked a question, or thanked you for adding your thoughts/comments.   I just don't have enough time, right now but I want you to know that I appreciate every word you type and I thank you for taking the time to do that.  I'm trying to read but I like to think over what I want to say before I post (usually), and then it seems I have some other responsibility (in life) that I must attend to and don't get back to write, or I have to disconnect my pc because of something life requires of me.

I just keep thinking about some who might be feeling ignored and rejected when they've bothered to post something and I don't post back and please, please hear that it's my fault...because I'm busy and can't post.....and nothing to do with you.  I guess I've been worrying about it, ever since I told you, Stormy, to stop worrying about it.

How ridiculous is that????? :shock:  :shock:  :?  :oops:

((((((all)))))).

GFN


Bless your kind heart, GFN. I stopped worrying about it somewhere around the time I started my sea cuke thread.

Actually, you were the lady with the extremely infectious laugh, and you were keeping daylily, write, and dogbittles in stitches, and butterfly was sort of watching from the next table and trying not to let on and not to crack up.

It was really a nice place to be.
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on April 28, 2005, 11:42:38 PM
Stormy,
What a nice lunch we shared.  I so rarely get to go out for lunch so it was a wonderful treat.  I hope I didn't have anything low-fat.  What would be the point of going out. :shock:

Mud,
I would be happy to prepare dinner for the gang.  For the main course, I would prepare a beef tenderloin with Merlot sauce (sorry if I disturbed you vegans out there), rosemary roasted potatoes and steamed asparagus.  I think a strawberry cheesecake would be the perfect dessert (don't ask me why, but it just sounds right).  Don't ever plan on me cooking low-fat either.  Can I count on you to bring the wine?

OK, obviously I have food on the brain.  I miss cooking for friends and sharing those wonderful chats around the table.  I guess maybe its time to venture out on my own and start having those dinner parties again.

GFN,
You are always so good about responding to everybody and giving such thought to your responses.  You are forgiven for occasionally missing someone--after all, you are not perfect like the rest of us.  :roll:

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 29, 2005, 12:13:32 AM
Hey Brigid,
Quote
Can I count on you to bring the wine?

Sure. What would you recommend for tenderloin of beef? Thunderbird or ripple?  
Quote
For the main course, I would prepare a beef tenderloin with Merlot sauce (sorry if I disturbed you vegans out there), rosemary roasted potatoes and steamed asparagus. I think a strawberry cheesecake would be the perfect dessert

That sounds just about right,  but don't forget to prepare something for  the rest of the guests. :P  :roll:  :P

mudpup
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 29, 2005, 08:26:14 AM
Bless your heart too, Stormy and I'm glad you're not worrying about it anymore.  That's a good thing!! :D

Bless yours two or three times, Brigid.  You're right too!
And thankyou for offering to cook dinner for us!!!  I miss those dinners with friends something fierce!

What can I bring?  Green bean casserole with butter and almonds?  Home made apple pie to go with the cheese cake?  Some of that fresh Italian bread?  Or whatever you would like?  Can I come over early and help?

What are your favorite flowers because I'm bringing some for you anyway so you might as well fess up?

Looking so forward to it!! :D  :D  :D

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on April 29, 2005, 08:49:40 AM
Mudpup,

 
Quote
Thunderbird or ripple?


Either is great as long as you pick a good year/month/day?  :lol:

I actually have a bottle of Ripple in my liquor cabinet that dates back to about 1979 (I'm sure that was a good year for Ripple) that used to travel between me and some friends as a joke.  Can't seem to part with it, but if I had  distinguished guests such as you and the rest of the gang here, I could probably be convinced to uncork (unscrew).   :D

Don't worry, I would make plenty for everyone.  I wouldn't want that short & stocky (tall & slender) body to go wanting.

GFN

Quote
Can I come over early and help?


Absolutely :!:  :!:   I always have loved the scene (well, I loved the whole movie) from "The Big Chill" where they are singing and dancing in the kitchen while preparing dinner.  That is my idea of a perfect evening with friends.

Quote
What are your favorite flowers because I'm bringing some for you anyway so you might as well fess up?


Hmmm?  Let's see.  I would say the perfect bouquet would be one that you cut from your garden.  But if its the dead of winter in "the Great White North," I would love a bouquet of tulips.  I have them starting to bloom in my garden now and I just love the smell.  Since I wasn't living here at this time last year, I am being pleasantly surprised by the spring flowers making their presence known.

Thank you for your thoughfulness.

Thank you, Stormy, for starting this lovely exchange.  Makes me a little melancholy, but brings back many great memories. :)

Bless you all,

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: P on April 29, 2005, 09:49:11 AM
Storm! :D
Quote
She's quiet,
how do you know? I’m not exactly quiet here am I? But in public I’m a wee mouse and you knew it!
Quote
but very classy,
well thank you very much m’am 8) , as I sit here in sweat pants and an old T shirt of H’s, you almost make me want to take a shower :shock: (that’s blown it) :roll:
Quote
neat artistic jewelry
this gets me, how do you know????? How??? You? Know? That is me and that’s spooky!

I was with a group of friends, well actually I’d been invited by the one friend I have and was just observing the others, quietly, when I noticed this really intelligent-looking woman looking our way. She caught my eye and made the tiniest of smiles, just an acknowledgement really, and looked away. She looks interesting and worldly I thought, I wonder what stories she could tell? She’s not interested in me, she’s got lots more to occupy her mind I bet.

She looks academic to me, but not the really eccentric can’t-dress-themselves type. More the has-more-books-than-she-can-read type. The sort of woman who would sit quietly at home and if you were observing her, you’d think she looked peaceful: but there’d be so much going on in her head, a whole interior life, not on view. She’s wearing classic but comfortable clothes, in autumn colours, has shoulder-length brownish hair, a little curly: or maybe no, she’s cut it off now and is sporting a shorter style, because she thinks it befits her ‘age’ better? (I hope not.) Men are scared of her, scared of her bright eyes, because they think she can see into their souls, including their most shameful secrets. Most of them avoid her eyes. They think they have too much to hide, how sad. I wonder if this lady has ever placed an advert in the back of the London Review of Books? Those classified ads written by the most erudite and informed literary folk in the land. They’re so funny, the ones I can understand. These made me smile, from the issue dated 21 April 2005:

“Yes, sir. I can boogie. Man. Academic. 62. Quite possibly gay. Box no 08/12”

“Ploughing the loneliest furrow. 19 LRB personals and counting. Only one reply. It was my mother telling me not to forget the bread on my way home from B&Q. Man. 51 Box no 07/06”

(These are both real. B&Q is a DIY hardware store.)

How did I get here??????? Loved the lunch Storm, hope I’m not too far out with my wonderings!


Hey, if there’s a party going on, I’m bringing crate-loads of red wine (anyone want white?) and lots of different sorts of olives in flavoured oils. Okay, I’ll stretch to making a tomato, avocado and mozzarella salad. This is making me hungry….. portia heading for the kitchen :arrow:
Title: Anything
Post by: Stormchild Guesting on April 29, 2005, 10:39:16 AM
P, I don't know how I knew, I don't think I was really alone yesterday. Y'all were with me somehow. God is good.

Yummy red wine... how about Grant Burges 1989 Shiraz? If we're going with something from Oz. A colleague gave me some as a gift, and I shared it out with friends in CH one Christmas - six of us, at dinner together, just a lovely time - and we lingered over it for literally hours, because it just kept doing lovelier and lovelier things as it breathed. We'd keep popping into the conversation with 'hey, try it now, it tastes of blackberries' 'wow, it's smelling like roses' etc. I am not a wine expert, but ye gods, this was a foretaste of heaven.
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on April 29, 2005, 10:44:23 AM
Quote
(anyone want white?)


Yes, please.  Reds give me a whopping headache. :(

Quote
Okay, I’ll stretch to making a tomato, avocado and mozzarella salad.


Ooooh Portia, that sounds wonderful.  Maybe with a little balsamic vineagrette?  I have a ripe avocado in the kitchen that I think I'm going to have to go slice and eat all by itself right now.  My mouth is watering. :)

Dinner's at 8:00 everyone.  Arrive at 6:00 if you want to help.  You'll have to figure out how that relates to your own time zone. :? Dress is casual and plan to do some dancin' to Motown :D .

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Stormchild Guesting on April 29, 2005, 10:54:38 AM
Brigid, I'll bring this gorgeous Gewurztraminer, it comes from Alsace, it tastes like you're drinking flowers....

can i hold big old red cat, or does he only sit on his mommy's lap? (in which case I'll hold big old red Sandy cat.)
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 29, 2005, 11:07:59 AM
Brigid:

I'm getting fat just thinking about it!! :D

How about a nice platter with different stinky cheeses and lovely fresh fruits?

My garden won't be available until mid-july so tulips it is!!

I'm in for anything red, espcially if it involves fruits and flowers Stormy!

See ya at 6.

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on April 29, 2005, 11:33:55 AM
Quote
Brigid, I'll bring this gorgeous Gewurztraminer, it comes from Alsace, it tastes like you're drinking flowers....


Sounds lovely, Stormy.  I'm not much of a wine expert, but always love to try new favorites from friends.

Quote
can i hold big old red cat, or does he only sit on his mommy's lap? (in which case I'll hold big old red Sandy cat.)


He'll be happy to keep you company as long as you keep scratching behind those ears and rubbing his belly.  Chloe, however, will just sit with you if you let her and don't mind the five pounds of hair left behind (FYI--don't wear black to my house if you don't like pet hair  :? ).

Quote
How about a nice platter with different stinky cheeses and lovely fresh fruits?


Perfect, GFN.  However, since you're providing the beautiful bouquet, maybe we should assign this to someone else?  I wouldn't want anyone to feel left out. :cry:

Patz, Longtire, Anna, October, Mum, Daylily, Desert Rain, 2 cents, PQC, Bunny, bittles, OR, Wiish, Mia, N-jaded, Write, Vunil, Chutzba--OK I give up. . . I know I'll miss some people, but you are all welcome to come and celebrate the first day of the rest of our lives. :D

Hugs,

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: P on April 29, 2005, 12:14:02 PM
Storm (if you're a full-headed lithe blonde into top fashion I've really blown it haven't I? :roll: )
Quote
how about Grant Burges 1989 Shiraz?
  8) I have no idea about this wine but I will have soon after your description, my that sounds goooood, like velvet in a bottle 8) appreciation coming from afar...

I'll be there at 6 Brigid, in spirit :D

"Reach out, reach out, to me...(cha cha cha cha cha) I'll be theeeeere!"
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on April 29, 2005, 12:38:22 PM
Brigid,

Did you say strawberry cheesecake? I'll DEFINITELY be there, with extra tulips (straight from Holland and besides you can never have too many tulips :wink: ) Thanks for the invite,

((()))

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 29, 2005, 02:10:57 PM
Quote

How about a nice platter with different stinky cheeses and lovely fresh fruits?


Perfect, GFN. However, since you're providing the beautiful bouquet, maybe we should assign this to someone else? I wouldn't want anyone to feel left out.  


Sign me up.  I'll even bring crackers.

With this group of folks we're sure to have a blast!

((Brigid))

Mia
Title: Anything
Post by: October on April 29, 2005, 03:23:28 PM
Quote from: Stormchild Guesting
She's quiet, but very classy, neat artistic jewelry, oh I name thee Portia, and thy friend, who's equally classy and brought a novel with her, thee I name October.

hugs all.


 :lol:  :lol:

I doubt if I would take a novel along if I had lunch with Portia.   8)

And how come I don't get the classy, artistic jewellry??? :shock:

 :lol:
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on April 29, 2005, 06:27:51 PM
Hi All,

As I walked past my dining room earlier today, I imagined it filled with all of you (I think I will need a bigger table. :shock: ).

The din of laughter from the jokesters in the group (you know who you are!), sharing of recipes (that would be me), stories of children, pets, jobs, favorite books, movies and music; and no doubt, some deep discussions of the n's in our lives, filled the room.  

The table was laiden with food (or whatever Mud hadn't eaten yet--sorry, I need someone else to pick on, but you always set yourself up. :lol: ), lots of bottles of wine--since everyone needed to bring their favorite to share and beautiful tulips, thanks to GFN & 2 cents (all the way from Holland, no less).

The cats were rubbing against any available leg as they would know that most of the guests are animal lovers and would not wish for them to go away (not that they would really care).  The dogs, on the other hand, would be banished to their beds in the laundry room or total chaos would ensue.

It was a beautiful image and I'm sure gave me the same degree of happiness as Stormy had while lunching with the group.  Even cyber friends can share a lovely evening together.

I better get cooking. :P

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Stormchild on April 29, 2005, 07:02:26 PM
Chicken Fra Diavolo, over wheat berries cooked in chicken stock with onions, garlic, and really sinful amounts of butter, accompanied by artichoke hearts and wilted spinach cooked with olive oil and just a smidgen of garlic. Dessert: dark chocolate. To drink, an alcohol-free Merlot - for the French Paradox, without having to imbibe solo on a Friday night - and it wasn't half bad. Coffee's on the brew. Thought of you, Brigid, and sent warm wishes your way. Thought of everyone else, too. All the best! [raises empty wine glass].
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on April 29, 2005, 09:48:02 PM
Quote from: October
I doubt if I would take a novel along if I had lunch with Portia.   8)

And how come I don't get the classy, artistic jewellry??? :shock:

 :lol:


Oh, 'you' had the novel to read while you waited for her... 'you' were early, to get a good table... and 'you' looked just a trifle sad. Had something major going on, didn't quite feel up to jewelry... but very classy in basic black. 'P' persuaded you to come to lunch and get a brief respite. It worked, too. 'You' were smiling by the time the main course arrived, and laughed, quietly, over your dessert.


(((((October)))))
Title: Anything
Post by: d's mom on April 29, 2005, 11:58:34 PM
brigid & everyone,
you are so kind to ask me.  :} it reminds me how long its been since ive done -anything- remotely fun.

it made me think also how many years it took me after leaving home, to learn how to enjoy myself....... and how just having them in my life now, its difficult again to imagine enjoying myself.... i fell stressed, repressed, stiff, dull, and blah. relaxing?... whats that?

BUT if your having a parrrrrtyyyyy.........

that dinner sounds fabulous brigid -  i can smell the tulips (do tulips smell?) and i could sure use a glass of that wine stormchild and as long as were fantasizing.........

ill bring steamed artichokes w/homemade mayonnaise...  cracked crab..... and a massive salad with the freshes stuff in it you can think about. plus homemade bread. hey i like this fantasy cooking.

ill send to the fantasy store for caviar - but only if theres votes for it. hey this -is- a fantasy party!

and balloons to play with - as long as they dont scare the kitties.  

i'll also help fantasy-wash your dishies brigid OK? :wink:  but only if mudpuppy enacts the grouse story in costume  8)

>>>>d's mama
Title: Anything
Post by: October on April 30, 2005, 06:10:42 AM
Quote from: Anonymous


Oh, 'you' had the novel to read while you waited for her... 'you' were early, to get a good table... and 'you' looked just a trifle sad. Had something major going on, didn't quite feel up to jewelry... but very classy in basic black. 'P' persuaded you to come to lunch and get a brief respite. It worked, too. 'You' were smiling by the time the main course arrived, and laughed, quietly, over your dessert.


(((((October)))))


Sounds very true.  I loooooove desserts, so that would always make me smile.   :lol:  :lol:

I will bake some chocolate cake for the party, to serve with a dollop of Greek yoghurt.  

Starting healthy eating thingy with daughter.  No buying any more crisps or choccy.  Just lots of fruit and veg and such.  It won't last!!!!   :lol:  :lol:
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on May 01, 2005, 01:07:42 AM
wow, I read the menu, and realized what a drag I must be at  parties.  I no longer drink, and I'ma vegetarian.  GEEEEEZ, and since my "cooking" is a really big joke in my house.....what will I do?
I know, this big dining room has a very large painting of mine in it....hows' that?...and there are many others of the artists here as well!  Hey, and I can bring music....either live (family's full of musicians) or recorded (I can push a mean "play" button!)
And can there be dogs under the table for us to sneak scraps of food to?(they will hang out at the meat eater's knees however).
I do know where to find good deserts, however, and I can pretend I made them.  Oh wait, this whole things a fantasy.....oh yeah.  I'll be there, and I'll cook and bake whatever you want.....and bring Martha Stewart along to package the extras in some swan like foil!!
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on May 01, 2005, 01:09:54 AM
ok,so my writing is like my cooking......I meant to say, there are many other works there by the other artists on the board, as well.   Ok, so maybe I should start drinking a little wine again!!!
Title: Anything
Post by: d's mom on May 01, 2005, 02:07:26 AM
Quote from: mum
I'ma vegetarian.  


hey mum! well theres a reeeeeeeally nice salad, and some rosemary taters and artichokes, would you like mexican? italian? indian?... ( im vegetarian about 80% of the time) ill be hapy to make something vegetarian anytime mum. ;}

i never knew how to cook....  i taught myself in the last few years, from watching martha & other shows.  no kiddin. :}!


Quote
what will I do?
I know, this big dining room has a very large painting of mine in it....hows' that?...and there are many others of the artists here as well!  Hey, and I can bring music....either live (family's full of musicians) or recorded (I can push a mean "play" button!).



well theres tons of food but not many games yet......   can you bring some silly games like ones having to do with jello or ballons or something else that really makes people giggle. ? and it would be really cool to see everybodys art. it would be cool to see the art and then try to guess who had created it. :} & -definitely- music. if its ok to bring kids your kids could sing an play and we could make it a big famly bash.

anna
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on May 01, 2005, 09:49:44 AM
Anna,

Quote
ill bring steamed artichokes w/homemade mayonnaise... cracked crab..... and a massive salad with the freshes stuff in it you can think about. plus homemade bread. hey i like this fantasy cooking.


How is that everyone knows my favorite things :?:  I have actually been craving artichokes lately, but the ones in the store look so pathetic  (and expensive) that I have resisted.  Crab is probably my favorite seafood, but I have never learned to cook it myself.

Bring it on!!!

Mum,

I think there will be plenty of food that even a vegetarian will enjoy.

I will definitely take you up on the art offer.  My home is woefully lacking in artwork and it is one of those things I freeze up about when faced with making a decision.  I'm sure I could tap into all you artistic types for some help with decorating.

I may have to draw the line on the dogs, however.  They would be too busy chasing the cats through the house to be waiting patiently at your knee for a snack. (I keep them in separate parts of the house).  My orange tabby is just like a dog, however, and will happily eat anything you toss his way.

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: sleepyhead on May 01, 2005, 01:00:49 PM
Hi everyone, I've been away for a while, but now I'm back! A party sounds great, but it sounds as if you've got the food covered... Can I sing for my supper? Anyone play guitar?
Title: Anything
Post by: d'smom on May 01, 2005, 05:08:31 PM
Quote from: Brigid
How is that everyone knows my favorite things :?:  I have actually been craving artichokes lately, but the ones in the store look so pathetic  (and expensive) that I have resisted.  Crab is probably my favorite seafood, but I have never learned to cook it myself.

Bring it on!!!


mmm
i crave artichokes a -lot-..... as an 'herb', i think they are good for the liver? or the kidneys. i forget. stormchild may know :}  down in california you can get huge fresh ones for a dollar each, and they have huuuuuuge fields of them just growing -everywhere-.  where i live theres about 2 times a year you can get them for $1.50 and they are pretty fresh. so twice a year, i get as many as i can.

rest of the time, they are something like four dollars each which is, ridiculous :{{. but this is a fantasy, why have a fantasy if you cant live it up :) )

the main problem i have cooking crab, (other than cost) is that i cant kill them. im too soft to want to hurt them!  but ..... its sooooooooo tasty!

just taught myself the mayonnase and considered that a real accomplishment though its actually very easy.  noone taught me to cook ( or do much of anything) growing up and i lived kinda like a gypsy - so its nice to challenege myself and learn something like that.

if we had avocadoes (natch) we could have the crab and the mayonnaise in the avocados.....mmm!!!!! stuff that like is very good for anyone wit any sort of depression.

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I will definitely take you up on the art offer.  


mum could be a great art director. im all ready to cook her some enchiladas or somthing & see what everyone creates.  :}>
anna
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on May 01, 2005, 06:09:38 PM
Sleepyhead,

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Can I sing for my supper? Anyone play guitar?


OOOOHHH how wonderful--live music :D   This party just gets better and better.  How great to be associated with such talented folks.  (Do not look to me for any musical accompaniment, but I do have a piano if anyone plays--someone said they had to stop taking meds because they couldn't play while on them.)

Glad to see you back, Sleepyhead.  We've missed you. :cry:

Anna,
I remember being in California in the 70's when you could buy 40 artichokes for a dollar at roadside stands.  Now a dollar won't even buy a half a gallon of gas.  :shock:

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 02, 2005, 04:46:02 PM
Hi all:

Normally, I would keep my mouth shut (and my feet out of it, during this one instance), however, since this is a fantasy, I guess I can be somewhat brave and let you know that I play piano and guitar (but in the real world......I don't like performing/being the centre of attention and all that stuff, so I rarely play for others.  I can do it infront of complete strangers, that I imagine I will never see again, but for those who know me........it takes me a long time, usually years, before I get up the guts to play (and it is definately a residual problem....left over from childhood....always afraid I will make too many mistakes and look like an idiot/bore people/they won't like the music and then me/I'll fall off the piano bench onto someone's foot and break it/all kinds of wacky irrational psychothoughts seem to take over when I consider performing for others).

But.....since it's a cyber dinner party.......it might be fun to play a little.

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Now a dollar won't even buy a half a gallon of gas.


It's 89 cents Canadian dollars for a litre, here today.  How much is a U.S. gallon?
The price is practically sinful!! :mrgreen:

Makes me want a fast horse and a solid buggy (with an enclosure, sun roof and solar heat).:roll:   That would make it quite a trip to your house now wouldn't it?  Especially in this weather (it was hailing huge marbles a lot of the time today.  Mother nature is duping us around up here!!! :x  

Do they have goggles for horsies?  (preferably with little windshield wipers attached). 8)

GFN
GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2005, 11:02:20 AM
Hello. Welcome to the Psychiatric Hotline

If you are obsessive-compulsive, please press 1 repeatedly.

If you are co-dependent, please ask someone to press 2.

If you have multiple personalities, please press 3, 4, 5, and 6.

If you are paranoid-delusional, we know who you are and what you want. Just stay on the line so we can trace the call.

If you are schizophrenic, listen carefully and a little voice will tell you which number to press.

If you are anxious, just start pressing numbers at random.

If you are phobic, don't press anything.

If you are narcissistic, you'll know exactly which buttons to press.

If you are anal retentive, please hold.



Giggling again. :D

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mudpuppy on May 04, 2005, 02:06:39 PM
GFN,

Gritting my teeth right down through the enamel today, thanks to my delightful brother. :x

Thanks for the laugh. Much needed. Especially that second to last one. :roll:  :lol:

mudpup

PS. GGGGRRRRRRRR!!!!! There go the teeth again. :x  :roll:
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2005, 02:35:15 PM
Glad you got a much needed laugh, Mud. :D

Stupid brothers!!  :evil:

What's he up to now? (or maybe you'd rather not focus on that). :roll:

I'm going out to hang up laundry in the fresh air and then rake up some funny looking pine cones.  Sending you good thoughts and thinking of you, Muddy.  Try not to grind those teeth too hard.  I can't imagine you with big ears and specs of what used to be real honkin' chompers!!  :shock:

Maybe you can find some garbage can lids to smash together, while you mumble rakka frakka's and frigga frakka's, under your breath?   Or find a snap shot of him and rip it to smitherines and then burn each bit, in an ashtray?  Saves on dental bills and decreases the frequency of migranes!

Sorry, I'm not much help Mud.  Stupid brothers!! :evil:

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mudpuppy on May 04, 2005, 03:07:15 PM
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What's he up to now?

Just legal manuevers and trips out of the country delaying our suit for more and more months, and the court just shrugs its shoulders.

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Stupid brothers!!

I wish he was stupid, he'd be much easier to deal with. :roll:

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Sorry, I'm not much help Mud.

The heck you're not.
A good laugh is exactly what the Physician ordered. :wink:
"A merry heart does good like medicine."

mud
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2005, 05:03:19 PM
Hey Mud:

Reminds me of my father, after my mother died.  He took her estate.....property, bonds, everything in her name and liquified it.  Forged her signature left, right and centre.  She had a will that left him totally out.  We started a law suit against him and he claimed that IIII forged my mother's signature on her will (mind you, I was 10 years old when the will was written and I'm left handed and she was right--but he wasn't counting any of that).  He kept dodging the court.......he was dying in the hospital (faked more heart attacks than probably any human before or since), too ill to attend, feeble old man, forgetful,  the whole show.  Never once showed up for court.  Finally the judge ordered a hand writing expert to examine the will and low and behold....it was deemed valid/it was her signature on it!!!  (Welllll I'lll beeeeeee!! :evil: ).   So......he dodged court a couple more times and finally sent his lawyer to say he was "withdrawing his complaints".  That was it.  Her will was ruled valid and he was ordered to pay court costs.

Nothing ever happened.  He never paid.  The will was never probated because there were no assets left to obtain.  We had to begin suing him all over again to get the assets back.  The sob died without ever spending a day in court or paying a single cent. :evil: I spent thousands trying to make it right for my sibblings (who didn't want to put out any money--only wanted to be notified when their inheritance was available).  Total waste.

Not only that......but he sold the property and spent the money before he died.  He had lot's though, and that's another story.

I hope you have better luck.  It's frustrating but the system is not designed to stop crooks.   They know how to weezle around in it.  13 years were spent trying to obtain my mother's property and follow her wishes but it didn't work.  He was a master swindler/conniving/crooked/sneaky/sob obsessed with greed and smarter than the average bear.

To be honest, I could care less about the money.....it was the fact that he managed to financially rape her after she was dead that really makes me hurl. :twisted:

Anyway.....sorry.  I'm probably making things worse.  :oops:  Hopefully, you have a better lawyer.  You already have the fact that you're a male in your favour.   You had business transactions together so you must have valid proof of for as least some part of your claim.  Eventually......they'll nail him down good.   When they do......celebrate a little for me too.  I have a severe distaste for crooked b#$%&*ds.

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Stormchild Guesting on May 04, 2005, 05:40:15 PM
GFN, I am so sorry for what you went through. My Nsib tried to do very nearly the same thing to me, but I was lucky enough to be able to compel judicial probate, which forced the estate into the oversight of the courts before assets could be stripped.

But the only thing driving me was the realization that if I didn't do exactly that, I'd end up with the scenario you describe. Can you believe, there are people who think I overreacted. I'm looking forward to hearing about their estate squabbles some day...
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2005, 05:46:00 PM
GFN,

Gosh GFN, what a prize your father was.
Sorry you had to go through such a mess and have the court stick it to you anyway. Also sorry your sorry a$$ siblings sat back and let you fight with the bum alone. Sounds eerily familiar.
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(faked more heart attacks than probably any human before or since)

Who was your dad, Fred Sanford?
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The sob died without ever spending a day in court or paying a single cent.

He's paying now though, unfortunately for him.
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He had lot's though, and that's another story.

I'll await the sequel. Thank you for sharing some of your story. I know its not easy, but it was much appreciated and helped a lot.
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You had business transactions together so you must have valid proof of for as least some part of your claim.

Our entire lawsuit is simply dividing a bunch of real estate we own, so sooner or later it will be divided. I'm just sick of the delays and the absurd manuevering. Hopefully his shenanigans are catching the eye of the court.
 
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Eventually......they'll nail him down good.

I intend to be compensated for the damage he has/is doing to us. I recently found a quite unpleasant attorney to help me with being compensated. :wink:
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I'm left handed

Southpaw dittoes from the left coast, buddy!  8) :wink:
The last great oppressed minority. :lol: I'm fairly ambidexterous with a lot of things, hows about you?

mud
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2005, 06:37:54 PM
Hi again Muddy:

Quote
Sounds eerily familiar.


Yep.  That's why I can relate to your situation so well.  I wish the courts would buck up.  If they're going to waste people's time....at least waste less of it.  13 years is a bit extreme eh? :?

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Who was your dad, Fred Sanford?


Old Freddy was Mr. Cunningham compared to my paw.  The only one who comes close is our Dr. Jeckel/Mr. Hyde/Dracula/Frankenstein/etc type horror movie characters.  In real life.....he must have been Hitler's cousin.

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He's paying now though, unfortunately for him.


Knowing him...he's bribed St. Peter and is busy ducking the Big Guy himself, white wings and all.  :shock:  Wounldn't put it past him being the perfect repenter/con artist he was.  Although, I do believe he won't be able to fake what's in his heart, once he meets his maker.   God'll have a handle on his old ticker! 8)

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Thank you for sharing some of your story. I know its not easy, but it was much appreciated and helped a lot.


It did? :shock:   Well.....I guess you're not as bad off as you could be so ya.....it maybe helps some to think about that.  :roll:

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Our entire lawsuit is simply dividing a bunch of real estate we own, so sooner or later it will be divided.


Up here we have what's called:  letters of litigation

They can be placed on the property, in the registry office, to warn any potential buyer that there is a dispute over the property, and that it may not be free and clear.  Most lawyers will advise any buyer not to purchase such a property, so it makes it hard to sell with letters on title.

My father managed to change the deed to my mother's property into his own name and then sell it to another family member (supposedly sold it???but the money was never deposited in any account of his??? :evil: ).  Our stupid lawyer placed the letters of litigation on the wrong property, or that "sale" never would have happened.  Hopefully, you have a similar safeguard and a lawyer who can tell one piece of real estate from another. :roll:

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I recently found a quite unpleasant attorney to help me with being compensated.


Good!  I hope he accomplishes that goal....big time.  Even if there is no compensation that can ever make up for what these people put us through....it is the principle of the matter and the restitution being ordered that counts.

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I'm fairly ambidexterous with a lot of things, hows about you?


Well with some things I am (playing musical instruments has forced my right hand to do what my brain tells it, some of the time).  But with some other things....especially something new......I often haven't got a clue which hand to use and have to keep trying with both until I figger it out.  I can definately use a fly swatter, equally accurately, with both hands and both feet (not really but that sounded pretty cool 8) )!!!  Talent or what??? 8)
On the other hand.......I can never decide which paw to use to throw a ball (and can't hit the side of a barn...no how).  So.....I'm not even much of a leftie, sometimes. :oops:
 
GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2005, 07:43:11 PM
GFN,

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Up here we have what's called: letters of litigation..... Our stupid lawyer placed the letters of litigation on the wrong property, or that "sale" never would have happened.

Down here we have what's called: malpractice. Sounds like your lawyer was doing some of it.  :(   :roll:

I have developed a maxim based on observation: you do not know a person's true character until they become an heir.
 
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It did?  Well.....I guess you're not as bad off as you could be so ya.....it maybe helps some to think about that.  

Sharing war stories always helps, if only to let you know there is someone who understands.
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I can definately use a fly swatter, equally accurately, with both hands and both feet (not really but that sounded pretty cool  )!!! Talent or what???

If you can type with your toes you ought to be able to swat flies with 'em.  :shock: :wink:
I bet you're a credit to our sinister (look up the latin root) ranks. :P

mudpup
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 04, 2005, 08:43:26 PM
Quote
GFN, I am so sorry for what you went through. My Nsib tried to do very nearly the same thing to me, but I was lucky enough to be able to compel judicial probate, which forced the estate into the oversight of the courts before assets could be stripped.

But the only thing driving me was the realization that if I didn't do exactly that, I'd end up with the scenario you describe. Can you believe, there are people who think I overreacted. I'm looking forward to hearing about their estate squabbles some day...


Sorry I somehow missed your post Stormy. :oops:  :oops:

Thanks for the sympathy.  Estate squabbles are nothing compared to the live version, if you ask me.  Too bad some people just carry it on, after the grave though eh?  Incredible, really. :shock:

Like you say.....people might think you overreacted but wait until they seen "the character", as Muddy says, of those involved when they have to deal with it. :shock:  :evil:  :shock:  :evil:

Sorry you had to go through it too Storm.  I was viewed as some greedy, mean daughter trying to "take" a poor, old, sick man's money when what really happened was that "sick" old greedy one stole the only stuff my mother had left to give her children, after withstanding 44 years with a maniac/lunatic/pathological/N.   I'm still fighting to get that property back and I don't care if I ever see a red cent/if I eat up it's worth in lawyers fees......but I want it back....I want it taken away from the "relative" that is enjoying it....because that crumb is not much better than the devil himself.  He knew exactly what he was buying, who he was buying it from and who it really belonged to.  My mother treated that person with so much kindness, when she was alive, it is dispicable....the way he assisted in her financial rape.  Another  N-b#$%^&d.  :twisted:

Mud Wrote:
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Down here we have what's called: malpractice. Sounds like your lawyer was doing some of it.  


Most  certainly and here they pay big bucks for insurance and then one must deal with "the insurance" people to settle disputes.  Ofcourse, they have teams of lawyers that know every loophole and one must continue to hire and pay more creepy lawyers to try to combat their loopholiness.  I've stood my ground.  I want the property back.  Period.  They have wasted so much time assessing and appraising and bs'ing.....but I just keep going back and saying:  "Nope.  I want the land back.  It's mine.  There's no proof that any money was ever transferred for it.  This "relative" knew my position before transacting.  Thankyou for your appraisals but they mean nothing to me.  I want the land."

And......so more and more time and money are wasted.  I don't know if I will ever get it back but .....we'll see.  I'm a big believer in good over powering evil.  Sooner or later, I believe it will happen.  And property prices just keep climbing, so who knows, maybe there will be a little left...to donate to some woman's shelter or something.

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you do not know a person's true character until they become an heir.


What an understatement.  And people crawl out of the wood work...making false claims too.   A will is hardly worth the paper it's written on, if you have crooks in your family and you will never know that you do.  If I can possibly do it, I plan on giving away my stuff before I die.  I'd rather die poor and know that those I want to get it.....got it....without having to fight for it.   Stupid system. :x

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Sharing war stories always helps, if only to let you know there is someone who understands.


Yes it does.  I guess I've been thinking about this lately.  Patience is a virtue, so they say. :wink:

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I bet you're a credit to our sinister (look up the latin root) ranks.


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........from Latin sinister, on the left, unlucky.


Credit?  Maybe not.  Remember I can't figger out which hand to throw a ball with.  And my aim is poor.  But......as one of my more witty relatives used to say....."If there weren't two kinds of luck, I wouldn't have any".

Seems to fit the bill. :roll:  But luck can change. :roll:  :wink:  

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on May 04, 2005, 08:48:13 PM
Wow, Mud the N's had a banner day today!!  My N A@#$%LE and his attorney pulled a good one today also.  I'd rather not talk about it, but suffice it to say, we got put between a rock and a hard place, and the next few months will be financially lean for me and the kids!
Meanwhile....my teeth are intact, and after a bit of a row, so is my relationship with my fiance (who is VERY ANGRY to say the least).  ME?
I just have to say WHATEVER and move along.  Hope you can too, Mud!
They will get theirs some day (hopefully in this lifetime for the sake of the rest of us) but I am done putting my energy into being angry over his crap....cause that's what it is. (after I scream a bit, of course)
Mum
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 05, 2005, 12:18:29 PM
GFN, Stormy and mum,

Sorry you had a bad day mum. I hope your fiance was angry with your ex and not you. :(
There is no way to anticipate all the tactics Ns will use. You absolutely have to have the outlook of never giving in because it is possible to win the war while losing some battles.
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but I am done putting my energy into being angry over his crap....cause that's what it is. (after I scream a bit, of course)

Well, I guess my version of screaming is grinding the old incisors down a bit. I try to channel the anger into a constructive avenue. Like making sure I am doing everything I need to, to be on plan on getting him out of my life. I also immediately begin looking for ways to use his antics to my advantage. I have already thought of several just sleeping on it. (or not sleeping as the case may be :roll: )

GFN,
Cripes, your father sounds like he was a Grade A b@#$%&d.
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I'm still fighting to get that property back and I don't care if I ever see a red cent/if I eat up it's worth in lawyers fees......but I want it back....I want it taken away from the "relative" that is enjoying it.

God bless you. Creeps like your father and relative count on people just throwing in the towel after years of enduring their crap. Cheering you on.
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Sooner or later, I believe it will happen.

Me too.
I just wanted to tell you that I really respect your optimism and humor more and more as little tidbits of your story fall out of your posts and float down like dead leaves. I can see you have been through a lot and I admire that you have such a healthy and positive outlook and are strong enough to fight the SOBs out of principle and justice.
I hope you can continue to drop the dead leaves, and rake 'em up in a big pile and burn 'em all someday. I'll bring the gasoline. :twisted:

Stormy,
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Can you believe, there are people who think I overreacted. I'm looking forward to hearing about their estate squabbles some day...

Thats precisely what I told my sisters when they sat back and watched me take this on alone. I told them "someday you're going to be in the same position I am and I wouldn't count on me running to your rescue. "
I'd say you were the soul of discretion. Nuts to those knotheads who judged you. :evil:
I hope your Nsib enjoyed its filthy lucre.

"He who is greedy for gain troubles his own house."
"He who troubles his own house will inherit the wind"

"A faithful man will abound with blessings,
but he who hastens to be rich will not go unpunished."

mudpup
Title: Anything
Post by: Stormchild Guesting on May 05, 2005, 12:48:49 PM
"I would have despaired if I had not believed that I would see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living."

"God is in the midst of her, she will not be moved; God will help her when the morning comes."

Amen; alleluiah!
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on May 05, 2005, 10:26:43 PM
Mud and Stormy: thank you for passing on those beautiful words of faith.
I am content and at peace, knowing that I act from love.  I am sad that my ex is greedy and selfish....because he is my children's father.  I am sad for them, but they will learn from him as I have, and be stronger people because of this struggle.
Sure, I wish from time to time that he would stop attacking me and start acting as a loving, secure adult would.....but pigs have yet to fly out of my butt........(sorry, had to lighten that up!)
He is a miserable SOB and I am a happy mother of two fantastic kids who feel safe with me.
So there....I have already won.
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 06, 2005, 12:12:43 AM
Hi all:

Mud wrote:

Quote
Sorry you had a bad day mum. I hope your fiance was angry with your ex and not you.


Ditto what Mud said, Mum.  I'm glad you came here to post anyway.  When things get crappy, at least you can vent a little here.  I wish I could sprinkle some magic dust in my hand, blow on it, and have it float....all the way over to your house...to brighten your day a little and give you a magic hug!  And then put a little, of another kind, in my other hand, spit on it, cough on it, and let it float......all the way over to your x's house...for him to cough on, get watery eyes, the hiccoughs, a lot of gas, and a realll, dizzy, disoriented blurry-cross-eyed expression would chill him out for awhile, with a magic kick in the pants to boot!!

Sorry Mum.  I can't find any magic dust around here (only the real fluffy hairball type...and I know where that is and there's lot's of it!! :oops: ).

Tomorrow will be better Mum and you're right.....you have won!!!  In the long run!!! 8)

((((((((Stormy))))))))  Thankyou from me too.

Mudbrother:

Quote
I also immediately begin looking for ways to use his antics to my advantage. I have already thought of several just sleeping on it. (or not sleeping as the case may be  :roll: )


The old....give them enough rope trick eh?  It works for many.  I hope you don't lose too much sleep over these plans and I pray that he will trip himself up on his own rope, that you won't have to worry at all about it. :D

Thanks for cheering me on Mud.  I'm cheering for you too.  And thankyou for all the kind words and stuff.    You are such a generous soul.   :D

Quote
I'll bring the gasoline.  :twisted:  


Goodie!!!  I'll bring the marshmallows and a big thermos of hot chocolate!!

Better wear something heat resistent/fire retardant..ish. :roll:

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mudpuppy on May 06, 2005, 09:30:02 PM
Somebody (Anna I think, maybe GFN) asked for the hornet story the other day and I've got a minute here so I shall divulge it. I come out looking like a bit of a pinhead but what else is new. :?  :roll:  :P

I was building a road on a piece of remote property for some very nice, but exceedingly citified people. They apparently considered it normal to ingest a handful of hornets and yellowjackets with every bite of a sandwich on their country retreat, and had therefore apparently never made any discreet inquiries as to where their plentiful venomous friends might be congregating nearby.
It didn't take me long to find out, although it is exceedingly difficult to make a discreet inquiry on a bulldozer.
I hadn't gone ten feet when I felt something rather unpleasant on the end of my nose.
Now for the unitiated, this is the order of pain for common stinging insects.
1. Garden variety wasp. A stinging type of pain.
2. Yellow jacket or meat bee. A stinging type of pain coupled with a small hammer type blow.
3. Honey bees. A stinging pain and a considerable hammer blow.
4. Hornets. An acute stinging pain coupled with something like a haymaker thrown by George Foreman in his prime.
The fellow on the end of my nose was soon joined by a considerable consort of his brethren in a similar mood. As I realized what was occurring things heated up considerably in the cab.
I flicked the gear shift into reverse and began with my hands a concerted effort to thwart the official policy of my new acquantances which was apparently to carry me off to their queen for a quick snack. The action was fast and furious and I gave as good as I got. But there isn't much satisfaction in squashing a hornet after he discharges his weapon in a tender part of your anatomy, especially when there's about five hundred and twenty three of his comrades waiting in the wings for their shot.
After a few seconds I simultaneously realized that there was an enormous nest of hornets about one foot from my head and I WASN'T MOVING away from it.
In my understandable preoccupation with squishing as many of the little creeps as i could I had neglected to lift the blade and had never moved an inch the whole time I was swatting away.
I raised it and began moving. Whereto, was of no concern as long as it was away from my new friends. Presently I got far enough away from their precious queen that they lost interest in me. I got off the Cat and walked over to my baffled clients and plopped down in a chair. I began counting stings and got to around 18 which surprised me greatly as it had felt like about 1800.
I have never had an allergic reaction to a sting of any kind but took the precaution of taking a couple of Benedryl. After the bridge of my nose started merging with my cheek bone and the back of my hands started swelling I decided to call it a day. One of the people rode with me back to my house just in case I had a reaction. The whole way I could feel the toxin spreading through my lymphatic system along the inside of my arms and down my sides raising hives as it went. By the time I got home I was essentially one large hive about the color of a sun dried tomato.
Here's where I really look like an idiot. My wife wanted to take me to the emergency room and I nearly agreed, but instead I took some more Benadryl and a baking soda bath and told her if my throat began to feel odd we'd go. Fortunately I peaked and got better in a few hours but I can't believe i took the risk of not going to the hospital. I know, very,very dumb. I looked pretty similar to a combination of Bozo the clown with Popeye's arms for the next day or two.
But the story has a very happy ending. I still had to make the road and the nest was still there. What to do?
My solution was elegantly simple. I got a large shotgun, a box of shells and drove up to within about ten feet of the nest cracked my window just far enough and proceeded a bombardment which reduced their cozy home to mere rubble.
In order to not offend my wife I will confess there are some things more satisfying than blowing that nest to smithereeneys, but its a pretty close call. Just kidding, hun.  :?
There is no moral to this story that I can think of other than hornets appear to have no problems setting boundaries, and they really really enforce them. Oh and they have a real mother complex as well. Freud would have had a field day with them. :evil:


mudpup
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on May 06, 2005, 09:50:35 PM
mud! what a great story!  I mean, not that you had this experience, but that you were able to tell us so wonderfully!!!  Thought this was Prairie Home Companion, for Pete's sake!!!
Hope your face looks like a human's again soon! (assuming it did before :lol: )
MUM

GFM:  thanks, I think that pixie dust got here...was able to let this go (ok, not completely, but I'm working on it) and have a pretty cool day...got a lot of projects completed and off my back for the school year....and the students were fairly focused today.  All in all, a good day.

I really love the people I work with and I tried to focus on them today, and not my "problems" and it made a huge difference for me.  Venting is ok, but  venting ad nauseum is just whining.  Personally, I don't respond well to whiners, and in my experience, the more I focus on what is going RIGHT, the more good stuff happens.....and the opposite seems to be true, too.  Perception is everything.

Preaching to the choir, I know!!!
I think your postive thoughts DO help others. Thanks!
Title: Anything
Post by: d'smom on May 07, 2005, 02:41:00 AM
mum, ive been thinking about you a lot. sorry things didnt go the way you wanted.... i dont think you are whining at all.... but im sending you good energy and thoughts.  you are an artist, did i tell you my new thing of attaching colors to things i want? so then rather than focusing on a complicated concept or something i attach it to a color and focus on the color... to attract the thing i want. anyway im thinking about you ((((mum))))

mudpuppy, i notice for people who feel they have voice issues there are some world class writers on this board  8)  

glad you are surviving all these encounters with wildlife, remind me never to go camping with you, and wouldnt it be great if all lifes problems came with such 'elegant solutions' as a shotgun and a boxa' shells....... !!!!!  :shock: :)
thanks for the story :}
Anna
Title: Anything
Post by: Mati on May 07, 2005, 09:17:56 AM
Quote
it is exceedingly difficult to make a discreet inquiry on a bulldozer.


 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

mud, loved the way you told the story. Will keep it for miserable days.  :D
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on May 07, 2005, 09:22:04 AM
Mudpup,

I loved the way you wrote that story, but reading it brought back one of the worst memories of my life when my son was about 4 years old and trailing behind his dad on the lawn tractor.  The tractor upset a nest of ground bees and they swarmed my son.  To this day we're not sure how many times he was stung, but as I drove him to the emergency room he started drifting off, which it turned out was the sleepiness induced by the Benedryl I'd given him, but I thought I might be losing him.  He turned out to be fine, but it scared the bejeezus out of me at the time.

I'm sure you've been told this, but you get more suseptible to allergic reactions the more times you've been stung, so be sure to watch it in the future.  (just a little sisterly advice)

Mum,
I'm sorry that the ex snake is once again rearing his ugly head, but I guess you are used to expecting nothing less.

I admire your ability to show grace under fire and maintain your positive outlook.  You are an inspiration to us all.

Hugs,

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on May 07, 2005, 03:47:50 PM
Hi All,
I didn't want to hijack another thread or start a new one for something so insignificant, but I just wanted to pass along something I learned last night.  I was out for dinner with some friends, ran into another friend and was telling her my nightmare of wallpaper removal.  She asked me if I had ever tried putting fabric softener sheets into a spray bottle with hot water and soaking the walls with it.  It sounded waaayyyyy too simple to be effective, but I was desperate.

SHZAAAAMMMM!!!! :D  :D  :D It really does work and the walls are sooo much cleaner after you've removed the paper (very little residual paper left to clean up).  I sure wish I had had that conversation sooner, but my daughter and I were able to finish the job in 1/4th the time it was taking.

I was beginning to think that I would never be willing to tackle another wallpapered room in this house, but feel much better about that now.

Anyway, just wanted to pass along Brigid's Helpful Hints to any of you who are contemplating such a task. :shock:

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on May 07, 2005, 05:23:10 PM
I really feel blessed.  Thanks all of you for your encouraging words.
Did I read the following here?  It's a Chinese proverb and I will most likely butcher it:
"If you are living your life for revenge, you may as well dig two graves."
I feel so good that even though my ex seems to be living for revenge, I can learn and remind myself to move along, and live for love.
My brother told me another: "Hatred consumes the vessel it is carried in".
I don't want to be that kind of vessel.
My fiance and I (no, he was not angry with me.....but with the situation and my ex's role in it) had a long discussion last night about hatred.
He really loathes my ex, and feels justified in that (um, so do a lot of folks!).  But I think if I "hate" my ex, it is such a strong emotion....it keeps me attached to my ex somehow.  And what I really want is to detach completely, and put as much emotional distance as possible between myself and this nutjob.  I understand I must do what I must because we have a connection with our shared children.....but beyond that I can choose everyday to either let the bastard get to me....or feel how crappy it is and then move on, let it go.....act as I would if he did not exist!
Anyway, Brigid:  I don't think you can "hijack" the "anything" thread, and I am thrilled to learn of that great wll paper removal technique.  You could mix it up yourself in your basement and have yourself a pretty good cottage industry!!!
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on May 07, 2005, 05:31:40 PM
Yay Brigid!

Byebye nastyhardtoremovewallpaper! Yay clean walls! And Yay Brigid!      

As you can tell I'm not feeling very creative but I'm so pleased for you!

((()))

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on May 07, 2005, 05:41:49 PM
Anna: You are so kind to be thinking of me.  I have been thinking of you as well.  I love the concept of attaching a color to your wishes or goals.  
It makes total sense to me, yes!  I find that when I am consumed with the HOW of making things happen (which I rarely have much control over) I get frustrated, as it IS very complicated.  When I focus on my goal in itself and the feeling that having that manifested would bring, I do pretty well.....but I tend to fall back into "how?" and as you well know, there is little rhyme or reason....not even in the supposed "just" judicial process!  So COLOR.....ahhhh, very nice.  I'm going to go with that a bit.
Thanks!
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 09, 2005, 09:07:02 AM
G'Day eh!!

Mud......if ever there were a stinging story .....that was it!!!  Those dang things'll build a nest just about any place eh?  I'm glad you survived it without medical treatment (you dork!! :D ) and that your clown nose eventually returned to a more normal size.

So that's....why you have such big ears!!!!  The better to hear the hornets with my dear!!! :D  :D  :D

Mum:  Glad you felt some magic dust come your way and that you are keeping your attitude positive (as usual.....you are an example for all of us).   8)  8)  8)

Brigid:  I love the new wall paper removal trick and will be trying it soon.  We have wall paper that has been painted over, in the entranceway to our home and I have been in denial about it, since we moved here (telling myself that "it's fine....I can live with it for awhile....there's nothing wrong with people who paint over wall-paper (was here when we moved here)...stuff like that).  So if there are any further hints in this regard (not in getting past the denial...because you have really helped me with that by your example of tackling the seemingly-impossible)...then I would greatly appreciate hearing all you are willing to share.  I.....dread...with a huge large giant big massive D.......doing the job. :roll:  :roll:  :roll:

2cents:  Glad to see your 2 cents here. :D  :D

You too Mati!  :D  :D

By the way.....everyone......I have something of value to say.......I have thought this through thoroughly and I have come to my own conclusion about something very serious.....which I will share with you all....so that you can decide whether or not this is so.....here goes..........  I firmly and wholeheartedly believe, with confidence and true dilligence, that as far as I know......it is .....IMPOSSIBLE. ....to hijack the "Anything" thread, ( :D  8) for all who may need this very important reminder--go ahead.....give it your best try!!! :D  :wink: ).

Have a happy day today all!!! :D  :D  :D

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on May 11, 2005, 05:02:30 PM
Hey all!

Just wanted to say thanks to GFN for something you said to Switzerland about praising yourself and the positivity that accumulates as a result. It was so wierd, I was coming up the steps to my house and thinking I was going to be more positive towards myself.

I've been in a dark place for years, (utter hopelessness i.e staring at the walls and just KNOWING everything was s**t) and I've tried the "tell yourself positive things" whilst knowing that I wasn't actually doing that at all (think along the lines of a smoker who's "quitting" - 'yeah, I'm gonna stop' but all the while not planning on REALLY doing anything.)

Lately I've been thinking that  the opposite of negativity is NOT neutrality (which was all I was aiming for) but POSITIVITY. I have been very negative for a long time, but I've recently started seeing a hypnotherapist and really trying to address my issues. Thing is, I have seen positive people. And I was just so mad at myself for not being positive, not making the best of things, that I decided to become actively negative instead (towards myself as much as possible.)

I had gotten to the point where I was really convinced that 'positivity' was just so much claptrap. So I stayed negative. But I think now on reflection that I needed to slow down in my life and grow up. And I definitely needed to find myself! At a certain point during the breakdown I ahd I though 'How can this be a positive thing? This is the worst thing that's ever happened to me! And I've had enough bad things happen to me! This is destroying me so how can it be good?' And yet, there are good things to be had. Don't get me wrong - a lot of bad doodoo happened, and there's even more sadness to process, but I guess I can appreciate the good things that happened now too.

So what I'm trying to say in my long-winded way is that good can come out of bad. I'm just in the process of really trying to realise that now. (that's what's so agonising when you're depressed or down - you KNOW there's good there but you know it's just out of your reach - grr!) What I've learned is to try to go slower - it's allowed! And to keep on reaching out - help comes from some very unexpected places sometimes.

Sometimes we have what we need, but we need to learn to see it, rather than looking past it.

So thank you to everyone here, cause you guys help and inspire me every single day.

2cents

P.S. Bunny: about looking at the blue sky: there's a tree outside my window which is flowering at the moment, and two lovely doves come to pick at the fruit. It's a small thing, but no less wonderful for all that!
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on May 11, 2005, 05:46:21 PM
2 cents,

Quote
So what I'm trying to say in my long-winded way is that good can come out of bad. I'm just in the process of really trying to realise that now. (that's what's so agonising when you're depressed or down - you KNOW there's good there but you know it's just out of your reach - grr!) What I've learned is to try to go slower - it's allowed! And to keep on reaching out - help comes from some very unexpected places sometimes.


I'm so happy for you that you are finding this place of comfort and peace. :)  :)   For one so young you have developed such amazing insight and perspective and so willing to share it with those in need.  I'm so glad you are allowing yourself the time to keep reaching forward and looking for the  good people waiting to come into your life.  You have so much to offer and anyone would be very lucky to have you in their life.  I'm very grateful that you came into mine.  

All of the walking wounded on this site can benefit from seeing that good can come from bad.  What I have learned about myself and others, developing a deeper level of compassion--perhaps not for my abusers (yet), but for others who have been abused, heightened sensitivity to personality types and setting the proper boundaries, beginning to accept that I could actually find real love some day are just a few of the good things that have come my way.  

Living with constant pain, fear and anger can totally drain the spirit and detract the wonderful people who could be waiting to enter your life.  Sometimes seeing the good seems impossible, but as you said, it can be as simple as the 2 lovely doves outside your window.  Keep taking the baby steps.  I have great faith that you will find peace.

(((((((2 cents))))))))))))

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 11, 2005, 07:28:23 PM
Thankyou 2cents for saying all of that.

Sometimes I wonder if some people just haven't given enough credit to themselves (because it seems n-ish? because they've been taught otherwise?  because they don't believe it will have a good effect to do this sill affirmation stuff?).

If saying nasty things to people, over and over, belittling them, criticizing them, devaluing their ideas, their feelings, their entire worth....causes damage.......then how can countering those ideas....with positive statements.....repeatedly.....NOT help heal repair that damage?

This just makes logical sense to me.  Nasty words/deeds = feel bad
Good words/deeds = feel good.  I know it's not thaaaaaat simple but it is definately close.  It takes work but not exhausting work.....just consistent.

Anyway....enough from me.  I'm glad you are embracing this for you, 2cents, and really giving it your best shot!  It will help!  I have no doubt!   Way to go!  keep trying and learning and applying and you will feel a whole lot better after awhile.

Brigid:  You are so brave!  I just had to say it!   :D

(((((((((2cents))))))))  (((((((((Brigid)))))))))

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on May 12, 2005, 04:55:49 AM
Brigid,

Thanks for all your kindness - it means  a lot to me!

I will share more of my story as I find more of my own 'voice' - all my life I've been very elliptical when trying to talk about feelings and my life :? and it's a hard habit to break...

I admire your courage and bravery and honesty in confronting the aftermath of your relationship, and good things will come to you, because you are working hard to see the good in things.

For myself, I can see the good around me intellectually, but I can't allow myself to touch it/ reach it yet. It's what I mean about neutrality vs positivity, or maybe passivity vs action is more accurate to say. I've tried therapy and making myself do things rather than just saying in bed, but without the right INTENT. 'Baby steps" sounds so trite sometimes, but it's the cumulative effect that's important. At the moment, I think I have to go back and look at my life again, and just try to be kinder to myself about certain things, and TRULY look for the positives instead of lumping everything together into one big negative mess. :?

It's hard work, but necessary, and coming here and seeing and hearing what everyone is dealing with and how everyone is dealing really helps.

(((((Brigid)))))

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on May 12, 2005, 04:57:32 AM
GFN,

You give a lot of help and encouragement to a lot of people here. You are a very kind soul. Just to let you know that it's appreciated,

((()))

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 12, 2005, 09:13:11 AM
Thankyou 2cents.

That is very nice of you to say.  I really appreciate it.
You have touched me, with your kind words.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm really helping or encouraging, or if it might be taken another way.  But then later.....someone will post how what I said helped.....and I feel glad again and especially happy that they feel better.  I really do not want to hurt anyone's feelings or say the wrong thing to anyone, but I know I will make mistakes, just like in the rest of life.

I admire you, 2cents, for looking for the positives, rather than lumping everything in one big negative mess.  You will find some good things too!  You'll will say:  "well, at least I learned this or that", or "he did do such and such, which was kind of nice", or "she does have whatnot quality, which I admire and makes her not allllll bad"....or things like that.

It's so hard to find something good/nice about some people/events, but usually there's something.  At the very least, most negative stuff teaches us something, at least to avoid in future, or to correct.  Keep working at it, 2cents, and you'll get there!
It's a good goal and far more productive than thinking negative, hopeless, etc thoughts much of the time.  Glad you're here!!! :D  :D

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 13, 2005, 04:43:14 PM
I Believe

I believe- that we don't have to change friends if we understand that friends change.

I believe- that no matter how good a friend is, they're going to hurt you every once in a while and you must forgive them for that.

I believe- that true friendship continues to grow, even over the longest distance. Same goes for true love.

I believe- that you can do something in an instant that will give you heartache for life.

I believe- that it's taking me a long time to become the person I want to be.

I believe- that you should always leave loved ones with loving words. It may be the last time you see them.

I believe- that you can keep going long after you think you can't.

I believe- that we are responsible for what we do, no matter how we feel.

I believe- that either you control your attitude or it controls you.

I believe- that regardless of how hot and steamy a relationship is at first, the passion fades and there had better be something else to take its place.

I believe- that heroes are the people who do what has to be done when it needs to be done, regardless of the consequences.

I believe- that money is a lousy way of keeping score.

I believe- that my best friend and I can do anything or nothing and have the best time.

I believe- that sometimes the people you expect to kick you when you're down, will be the ones to help you get back up.

I believe- that sometimes when I'm angry I have the right to be angry, but that doesn't give me the right to be cruel.

I believe- that just because someone doesn't love you the way you want them to doesn't mean they don't love you with all they have.

I believe- that maturity has more to do with what types of experiences you've had and what you've learned from them and less to do with how many birthdays you've celebrated.

I believe- that it isn't always enough to be forgiven by others. Sometimes you have to learn to forgive yourself.

I believe- that no matter how bad your heart is broken the world doesn't stop for your grief.

I believe- that our background and circumstances may have influenced who we are, but we are responsible for who we become.

I believe- that just because two people argue, it doesn't mean they don't love each other. And just because they don't argue, it doesn't mean they do.

I believe- that you shouldn't be so eager to find out a secret. It could change your life forever.

I believe- that two people can look at the exact same thing and see something totally different.

I believe- that your life can be changed in a matter of hours by people who don't even know you.

I believe- that even when you think you have no more to give, when a friend cries out to you, you will find the strength to help.

I believe- that credentials on the wall do not make you a decent human being.

I believe- that the people you care about most in life are taken from you too soon.

Annonymous


Have a great weekend all!!!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on May 13, 2005, 08:48:58 PM
GFN,

Thank you for the poem.  As I was reading it, I kept thinking--Oh, that is the most important one, no the next one is the most important,-- and on it goes.  I guess its all important and something we need to give more consideration to.

How's gardening in the Great White North??  My tulips are in bloom, but I don't have nearly enough to make a nice bouquet.  Can you send some over from Holland 2 Cents?  Is it the season there now?  I know they just had Tulipfest in Holland, Michigan last weekend.

2 cents,
You are more than welcome.  I'm so glad you are sharing some of your story with us.  I hope the time will come when it becomes more comfortable for you to do so.  I know you will get there.

Bless you both.

(((((((GFN)))))))))))    ((((((((((2 cents))))))))))))

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Butterfly as Guest on May 13, 2005, 10:35:48 PM
After reading the posts here, they remind me that it doesn't take any effort at all for negativity to thrive.  They grow like weed.   On the other hand, having a positive mindset takes lots of work and deliberate effort on our part.  The negative always tries to choke up the positive.  It doesn't take any work for weeds to grow in a garden.  They just sprout up on their own and always a nuisance.  But, roses don't grow without TLC (tender loving care).  In the same way, positive thinking takes cultivation and nurturing, while negative thinking takes no effort at all.  No wonder it's so easy to be negative and so hard to be and stay positive.  At least it is for me.

Also, another thing I've realized about myself recently is that the reason why I often feel like I'm trudging in the hot, arid desert is b/c all along I've been looking down at the sticking sand.  I didn't even think to look up at the endless, clear blue sky right above me.  Clouds come and go, but the blue sky is always right behind it.  So if anyone feels like they are trudging in the desert, remember to look up more often at the blue sky.  It is a much happier view. 8)

Perhaps I'm rambling here...just want to share my 2$

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on May 13, 2005, 11:41:43 PM
Butterfly,

Quote
just want to share my 2$


I guess your opinion has a higher value than most of us who only charge 2 cents.   :lol:  :lol:

You are absolutely right about the effort involved with having a positive mindset.  Your analogy with weeds and roses is a good one  and I know how hard it is to grow roses.  :wink:

If being happy and positive was easy, we'd all be doing it and never have to pretend.  Something worth having takes time and effort.

Just my 25 cents worth.  I think we need to raise our rates.  :roll:

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Butterfly as Guest on May 13, 2005, 11:57:55 PM
Brigid, you're too funny :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

If we all put our cents together we'll be quite rich and can share the wealth with each other.  Oh yeah, I think that's what we are all doing on this board.  From where I'm standing, that is quite a beautiful sight :D

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on May 14, 2005, 06:11:41 AM
Just to let y'all know that MY rates are in EURO cents! :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

BTW Brigid, there all ALWAYS tulips in Holland! I'll send ya a big bunch plus some of the flowers from this tree outside my window which really are quite beautiful. :wink:

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 14, 2005, 10:10:34 AM
Hi all:

Hey Brigid!  I did the same thing when I first read:  "I believe". ...."Oh, yes, that one is important!...No wait...That one is even more important!...  Wait, wait!!  This one is too!!"

All stuff we have to try to remember to remind ourselves, eh?

Well....re gardening up here......it's very strange this year.  It got very, warm, very suddenly....and everything starting coming up.  Then....it flippin' snowed!!!!  (which melted the next day...but you can imagine the poor plants....the shock.....the terror.....the confusion).  I think we're having N-weather! :shock:  

Nevertheless, my tulips have heads and look like they are soon going to bloom.  I see flowers coming on my peonies and some of my ground covers are getting pinky and purpley!  Even plants can survive the N-system!!!

Butterfly:

Quote
In the same way, positive thinking takes cultivation and nurturing, while negative thinking takes no effort at all. No wonder it's so easy to be negative and so hard to be and stay positive.


Wow!!!  That should be published in all psychology books!!  Yes....negative thinking....noxious weeds.....positive thinking.....roses/beautiful flowers!   What a wonderful comparison!!  I bet your garden is lovely!!!

I do admit...some weeds are lovely too (I have a whole field I keep throwing seed into....it's full of the most gorgeous....weeds....and I keep adding more and more "wild flowers" to it.  It is breath taking in late June/early July).  So, thinking negatively can be a good thing...in a way sometimes...I think.  At times when I need to release feelings that are tormenting me....it actually helps to think negatively for a bit and just let all it all out.    And....there is always some positive to be seen, if you ask me, in even the most negative stuff (like weeds).

I do agree though....it takes way more time, effort, energy...at first....to focus on positives and thinking positive stuff.  After awhile....I do believe it becomes more of a habit than not.  LIke the glorious roses in full bloom (mine look like they all died this winter :(  :( ).....after cultivation and nuturing, much care and attention......they do come out in a maginificent display.....much like the benefits of positive thinking can be a great beauty in our lives.   (And a cold, harsh winter.....can dampen or even kill such fantastic flowering plants.....as our positive thinking gets dampened or killed by cold, harsh treatment too).

But.........we can always plant a new bush, work up the ground, feed and water it well.....and before we know it......another gorgeous thing is growing that will only add pleasure and beauty to our lives.

And that......was a lot of rambling......for any one Saturday morning......

Enjoy you're day/rest of week end all!!!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on May 14, 2005, 10:11:15 AM
2 cents,

Quote
Just to let y'all know that MY rates are in EURO cents!


Having been in Paris a few months ago, I know that I cannot afford your advice.  :shock:   Although, still not as bad as the pound in London.  I hope you Brits don't think your advice is actually worth what you're charging.  :lol:

I had no idea what I was spending for things over there until my credit card bill came through.  YIKES!!!  Oh well, it was a wonderful experience and one I hope to repeat many times again.

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on May 14, 2005, 12:09:50 PM
Ok, since this is the Anything thread, I can go here (with inspiration of the Euro).  I saw the movie "Millions" last night.  It's not showing everywhere here in the states.  Except for a rather untidy ending, it's a great little film.  Anyone see it? (two brothers and a bag of money)
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 14, 2005, 02:41:43 PM
Hi all:

Haven't seen that one Mum.  I'll have to look for it.

On my way out for the evening now.  Spotted this and just wanted to share it:

Quote
I have seen what a laugh can do. It can transform almost unbearable tears into something bearable, even hopeful.


Bob Hope


Now there was a guy who knew what he was talking about!! :D  Sure did his share of transforming eh?  God bless his resting soul!!
 
GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Butterfly guesting on May 14, 2005, 08:35:05 PM
GFN,

I think I see what you mean about how some weeds can be seen as lovely.  Dandelions are kinda of pretty.  For me, negativity is such a strong force.  It can just pull me right down.  Why is negativity so much more powerful than positivity?  Are we all born with an innate ability to be negative over the ability to be positive?  Hmmm, I'm not sure :roll:

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 16, 2005, 09:33:17 AM
Hiya Butterfly:

Quote
For me, negativity is such a strong force. It can just pull me right down.


Ya, for me too....to the pit...where there is nothing. :(

But ya know.....so much of that is due to my thoughts.  I mean, if I really am honest....I know I have many, many negative thoughts during those periods..which serve to escelate that downward spiral.  So the way out, for me, is to take a stand in my thinking.

Quote
Why is negativity so much more powerful than positivity?


I don't believe it is.  I believe the exact opposite, actually.  When I think about it......the negative times and all the crap that go with all of it.....are no more powerful compared to the positive, joyous times of my life...as a matter of fact....some joys are far more powerful.  For example.....I've posted elsewhere that one of my children died...which is a huge, painful loss, no matter how we look at it.  But I have also been blessed by the births of two children who lived!!!  And the wonder and joy of those experiences are just as powerful, just as fantastic, just as positive as the death of one was sad, powerful and negative.  But I have had two....such positive experiences...therefore I believe two to be more powerful than one...by choice.

So really, when I think about it....I really think positive experiences are just as powerful as negative ones...and often more so.  The trick is in how we think and how often we think about them....what we choose to think about them.   I can choose to focus on the negative, sad, awful crap I've endured/or which is occurring.....for awhile.....and then
I can choose to say:   "Enough for now" and turn my thinking to something happier, much lovelier, more positive...for awhile.  The more I do that....the better I feel.   I can make myself feel just as good as I can bad, depending on what I decide to think about.  Positive thoughts just seem more productive to me and therefore....seem a little more powerful.

When I think good stuff....I feel good, go places, do things, get things accomplished, enjoy life, enjoy people, etc.  When I think crappy stuff....I feel like crap....go no where, do nothing, get nothing done, dislike life, and most people.  Nothing...compared to something.....to the something equals more (mathematically speaking).  So to me.....positives logically are worth more (now that might be the weirdest thing I've ever tried to voice :shock:  :shock:).

Quote
Are we all born with an innate ability to be negative over the ability to be positive?


I don't think so.  I think we can choose to believe such a thing...or we can choose to believe that we are capable of thinking whatever the heck we want.....(with effort, I admit, sometimes).....and focus on negative or positive......by choice.  Put it this way....no one can force us to be negative or positive, right?  So it has to be our choice.

So.......we've had lot's of negative experiences and we think about them.
So......the world can be an awful place and there are some people who behave in really nasty ways here.
So......we have trials and tribulations and traumas and tricky stuff to deal with.
So what??

We've also had many positive experiences but we have to pay attention to them.  Positives may be simple and overlooked sometimes.
The world has plenty of amazing, wonderful people and stuff in it too, but.....we have to look at it/seek those people out....pay attention to it/them.
And we have overcome many trials, tribulations, traumas, tricky stuff...by now......and have been given many opportunities, experiences that could enhance our patience and faith, experiences that are normal, even comfortable, and simple.........but do we notice those?  We can choose to, I believe.  We can learn to pay more attention.  It's not magic or something in born, imo.

I don't think we are born with some special ability to appreciate  negative, think about the negative, focus on the negative.  I think the negative hurts.....and in an effort to relieve the pain, we form the habit of focussing on it.  We choose to focus on pain more than pleasure...sometimes.....as if we have never experienced pleasure, as if we don't know the value of pleasure, as if we think pleasure is somehow over, impossible, gone.

But choosing to pay more attention to simple pleasures....can and is.. just as powerful, just as life enhancing......as the negative junk is life-destroying and draining.  The good in life gives us hope, gives us energy, gives us a bright outlook......the bad junk does the opposite.  It's no more powerful than we allow it to be.

We have survived.....so far.......which only shows that we have enough power to overcome the negatives we've encountered thus....and as a matter of fact......have a desire to take away the power of that negative stuff, and are looking to heal and become healthier.  This is one great positive that I see about everyone here.

And the way to do that...might just be.... to decide to think about, focus on, look for, seek out, pay attention to, allow in.....the positives and let their power have full reign.  It's a choice that we all have and although some of us may have a habit of doing otherwise, I believe it is never too late to learn or to try to change our habits.

 :D  :D  :D



Then.. sure....once in awhile.....negative will naturally do it's stuff......but we will have been trained (by choice) and have formed the new habit of.....embracing positives again, real soon, with gusto, if not also looking for the positives in even the most negative people/experiences.  And then we might be asking......why are positives so much more powerful than negatives? :shock:  8)  :shock:  :D  And not be a bit surprised by our answers.

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Butterfly as guest on May 16, 2005, 11:05:52 AM
(((GFN)))

You made a heck lot of sense :idea: .  What do you in this case:
a mother tells her daughter not to think about the boogey man in the closet when the mother leaves the room and turns off the light.  Inadvertantly, the child can't help it but think about the boogey man in the closet.  When someone tells you not to think about something, that's the very thing you think about.  Like when your friend tells you don't think about an apple, think about an orange instead.  Inevitably you gravitates towards the thought of an apple.  I find this is true for negative vs. positive thinking.  I try to think positive, but the very thought of trying to stay away from the negative sneaks up on me without my control.  What would you do in this case? :roll:

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: P on May 16, 2005, 11:31:22 AM
Hi Butterfly, I haven't been following your posts, sorry, but wanted to say anyway.....

A child can't face many of the demons presented to it. An adult can :D  as adults we're in control of what we think (to a greater extent than children I think). So unlike the scared child, we can go and look in the closet and get the facts (no boogey man, or a boogey man we can deal with).

Quote
the very thought of trying to stay away from the negative sneaks up on me without my control.


My 2 Euro cents or even £ pennies :D is: don't stay away from the negative if the negative scares you. If you have fear, face the fear. What is there really to be scared of?

Sometimes the negative is so strong that we can't ignore it or push it away with positive thoughts. It has to be dealt with, worked through until we can accept it. Accept the negative? Yep, be sad about it maybe, or angry or whatever, anything but be afraid of it.

When the negative isn't so scary, you can recognise it ("hello darkness my old friend" if you can stand S&G) and deal with it: like a headache, take a pill/lie down: negative thoughts, take a walk, change your activity, phone someone etc.....

when I started this post I thought I knew what I meant....now I'm not so sure :? .....does any of this make sense? portia
Title: Anything
Post by: butterfly as guest on May 16, 2005, 12:03:56 PM
Portia,

Absolutely!  What you said made sense to me.  Someone once told me, face your fear, and your fear will go running away from you sooner or later.  What you said brought that to the forefront of my mind.  I haven't been tending my garden lately.  No wonder there are so much crab grass growing in it.  Gotta go pull out those obnoxious weeds.  Hmmm, the weather is nice today, I think I will go plant some lilacs and some yellow roses. 8)

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on May 16, 2005, 12:07:51 PM
I think that when we have been through trauma, be it for a long time or an event, we are drawn down to a sad, i.e., negative place.  I know that for myself, when my H first left me and I was in a serious state of depression, I was finally able to answer "lousy", when people would ask how I was.  This was a totally new experience for them, as I had always been "good," or "great," in the past.  As time has gone by and my demeanor has improved, at least externally, I think people expect me to answer, "great"  or "good" when they ask the question today.    I find it is not easy to do that, as I still don't feel that way.  I am no longer "lousy," but the best I can muster is "pretty good," or "OK," depending on how things have been going that day or week.  Almost universally, the response I get to that is, "well, you look fabulous, great (insert your own word)."  I have made some changes to my hair color and style which I guess others think is flattering (makes me wonder why I didn't do it sooner), but looks are purely external and have very little to do with what is going on inside.

People who have been through this experience can totally understand that it is still a fresh wound and will take time to heal.  People who have not, think its been long enough, I am a strong woman and its time to get over it.  I guess there is a part of me who wants them to know that I am not over it, that I still hurt and the real crux of it, that I still want their concern.  Pragmatically, I know that they don't have time to concern themselves with my issues and that it is my problem.  The negative stuff need to be saved for therapy and the positive must take over in day-to-day life.  Its the healthiest thing for me and my children.  But sometimes it just seems hard to do.   :(

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on May 16, 2005, 03:55:02 PM
Everything has balance. Look at the yinyang symbol.  In the darkness there is light and visa versa.  Twas ever thus, as my mom would say.
My boss put this on the back of our weekly communication:

"Our lives are determined not by what happens to us, but by how we react to what happens; not by what life brings to us, but by the attitude we bring to life.  A positive attitude causes a chain reaction of positive thoughts, events and outcomes.  It is a catalyst....a spark that creates extraordinary results."
(Don't know whose quote that is)

I have seen this manifested forever in my life and the lives of those I love. It  is the way of the world.  There will always be negative along side the positive.  There is a flip side to everything.  To dwell on this is to give the negative more power.  I choose to dwell in possibility, as Emily Dickinson said (although she wasn't much of a practicioner, really).

It's a choice.  Always.  We have so much more power than we realize.  If you choose to, you will see this power of "positive" has more to it than the negative.....it's just human nature to feel powerless (and thanks to centuries of religious dogma). I believe we are one with the divine.  The greatest lie is that we are seperate from that.
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 16, 2005, 05:14:54 PM
Hi everyone:

I've been thinking about this discussion quite a bit today.  In a way, it needs discussion to be fully voiced.   The more voices...the better because it's not like one person has all the answers, knows all there is to know, or will say it all without missing stuff or even correctly.  And it's a good thing to consider all the different viewpoints/arguments for and against/methods in regard to positive vs negative thinking.  Or.....it's a complete waste of time......depending on what you decide (heehee :D ).

Butterfly:

Thankyou very much for the hug.  I like hugs.  Hugs are almost as good as chocolate (just kidding :D --they really are better--besides, you can't send me chocolate over the net :shock: ).  Even a little cyber hug can make my day, sometimes,  :D because I can imagine the person, you Butterfly, smiling, reaching out, hugging, offering warmth and kindness, security, safety, maybe a bit like mothering (because mothers hug....or they're supposed to and we are supposed to learn from them that those hugs mean something good)...and because all of those thoughts that go with that little hug are good and I feel good after that.  That's a lot of yapping about one little cyber hug but I really mean it.  Thanks!! :D

Quote
What do you do in this case:
a mother tells her daughter not to think about the boogey man in the closet when the mother leaves the room and turns off the light. Inadvertantly, the child can't help it but think about the boogey man in the closet. When someone tells you not to think about something, that's the very thing you think about.


Well, I'm with Portia in that children may not realize the power they have inside their minds because they haven't heard about it, experienced it a whole lot, or been aware that such a thing as choosing to think a certain way might help...and they don't know that they can face their fear, look for the facts, and deal with the demon head on...and live through it.  They need knowledge and experience (wisdom) to fight off such scarey stuff, which usually is gained through life.  So it can be very difficult for a child to deal with such a suggestion....unless they have learned the information/gained experinece about such things... elsewhere/or if they have a natural tendancy to deal with such matters in some comfortable way, which might be possible too?   Mind you, a positive mother would say something like:

"Dream about good stuff tonight" or "have a nice dream" and might even ask if the child would like a night lite on.

In the real world, I know someone who's son was terrified of the boogieman (heard about it on tv) and the mother was really having a time trying to soothe her son.  Finally, she bought a giant poster of Mr. T (do you remember Mr. T??) and hung it on her son's wall.  Once, I visited and asked about the poster and her son said, very confidently:  
"Oh...that's Mr. T!  He won't let any bad guys into my room!  Not even the boogieman!!!  He beats 'em up while I'm asleep!!"

Quote
Like when your friend tells you don't think about an apple, think about an orange instead. Inevitably you gravitates towards the thought of an apple.


Unless, your friend is trying to help you and you realize it and so you decide to tell yourself that oranges are the best, you love the colour orange, the smell, the vitamin C, the sweet juice, the way they are like the sun...just before it sets/rises, that they have a wonderful orange firey glow, that round is lovely, that the seeds are white and clean and are great for spitting at pictures of you enemies and........

Inevitably, (to steal your word), your thinking will be focussed on oranges and apples may become less appealing, especially if you take the time to discourage your desire for apples (by thinking that apples get mushy too fast, contain worms sometimes, are often too tart, have thick skin that gets stuck in your teeth, and their seeds are dark and small and hardly ever germinate when planted in a cup of soil, and that you don't like the smell of apples as well as oranges, and apples aren't as round as oranges, and you can easily bruise and apples aren't worth thinking about.........).

And double especially....if you do this consistently, with specific frequency, giving your full effort to it because you know it will help.

That's how I would handle it, as an adult, if I wanted to think about oranges (as my friend suggested I do, and if I thought that was a good suggestion, that I wanted to try to implement).   It is work...no kidding.

Quote
I find this is true for negative vs. positive thinking. I try to think positive, but the very thought of trying to stay away from the negative sneaks up on me without my control. What would you do in this case?  


Honestly, as Portia said...sometimes you can't ignor the negative and as Brigid said....trauma/loss takes us to a negative place.  We do have to deal with the feelings and the nasty junk that upsets us....we have to grieve and release our feelings...we have to be negative sometimes... but we don't have to deal with it alllllllllllllllll of the time....even when we're going through it, imo.   We can stop and give ourselves a break.  There's no law that says we can't! :D

There is no time limit and no way to estimate when a person will, if ever, feel like they have returned to the state they were in previous to the trauma/loss (or any state near it)....so what's the use of staying in soley in negative mode?   We do have to grieve our losses and do so thoroughly and release the feelings that trauma and loss generate but.........

Not alllllllll today.....all the time......every single day.

That's mho.  Sometimes......a little at a time....is enough because it allows for healing inbetween grieving.

So.......you're trying to think positively and the negative just creeps up and sneaks into your head?

Stop.  Do you have to let those thoughts take over?  Or....Do you really need to go there for awhile and get something out?  Only you can decide.

If it feels so strong that it just won't quit then it might be time to get those bongo drums out, a box of kleenex, and a pad and paper.....and write, write, write...negative crap for 15 minutes without stopping.  Feel worse??
Cry, cry, cry and really feel the hurt and really let 'er loose.  Now you're mad??  Wipe eyes with kleenex and proceed to bongo drums and beat the you know what outta them for a few minutes, an hour, a couple of days......(just kidding again-- :D ).

Whatever it takes to deal with the feelings......good.  Do it!  As Larry the Cable guy (who I really shouldn't mention) would say:   "Get 'er done!!!"
But I might add.......not all at once...it can't be done!!(did I say can't??  well...maybe it can....I don't know for sure :? ).  It just seems to be more sensible to rest inbetween agonizing. :arrow: Give nourishment to our emotional state......feed ourselves some good thoughts....inbetween all the yucky stuff.

So after the great bongo beating, pillow punching, paper ripping upping episode seems to have released enough agony for one sitting/stomping/jumping session.... then......decide.....ok enough.  Time to do something else.   All doesn't have to happen in one episode.  

Then there is a conscious....stubborn.....persistent......attempt made to focus on something else.....something positive.....something you like, enjoy, want, dream of, remember that was nice, will be doing soon, someone you enjoy being around, something that makes you smile, etc...anything......to take control of your thoughts and be in charge, in a positive way....for a period of time that you......

choose.

And when those little nasty, negative thoughts start creeping back in, the sneaky little buggers :evil: ......you have to take control and say to yourself:

"Wait a minute!!  I'm not going to think about that right now!   I'm busy thinking about this........."  and do it!!

Or:  "No way.  I'm done thinking like that for awhile.  Now where was I....oh yes.....chocolate!!!!!!!!  UMMMMMMM!!!  Yummy!"

Takes practice and patience, like everything else.  The benefits???

Guaranteed = some pleasant, comfortable, enjoyable moments in your messed up, traumatized, grief striken life.  Those moments are entirely up to you/me to create...at will....with effort...over time.  They are ours to seek out and embrace and keep in mind.

Ofcourse, there are lot's of other things to do besides a few fleeting positive thinking sessions to help ourselves heal...it's just that it seems to really begin...with a thought.

I will heal.

And another thought.

I don't have to think about this any more.

ETC.

I know I stay in the same cold, dark, lonely, awful place....without that one initial positive thought....which if I grab ahold of it.....if I choose to hang onto it......will lead to another and another and soon....I am crawling out of the pit of despair and onto rich soil (that's why my fingernails are kept short--- :D ---it's easier to brush 'em clean!!!).

The point is....others can suggest all they like.....but IIIIIIIII have to do the actual thinking.  I have to decide to take the suggestion or think of a better one.  I have to start my own positive thought process...
(unless.....someone like Butterfly....gives me a cyber hug.....and then it just seems to start up like magic)...and after that....come the positive feelings that follow those good thoughts.....and maybe after that....a little positive action (on my part!!! :shock: )....and sometimes, life is good.

The most serious of all statements: :shock:

Think what you choose.

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Butterfly as guest on May 16, 2005, 11:02:29 PM
Again GFN, you made a garden full of fresh smelling roses sense :D  :D  

Hugs for you anytime.  I love hugs ( both tangible and intangible)...I just don't get enough of them.  I think I'm broke in my hugs account :(

What you said about one neg. thought leading into another and another is something I can very much relate to.  I find this very true in my thinking.  For me, it's like a domino effect...once the force of negativity hits the first domino, it brings down all the rest.  And it's so hard for me to stop the flow of its effect.

All that you have mentioned in terms of positive thinking requires a lot of will power and a strong self belief system.  At least, that's how I see it.  Geewiz, I feel so out of shape and have been feeding my mind with a lot of junk that it has drained a lot of enegy out of me.  Now, I need to develop a good mental workout regimen to get back in shape.

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on May 16, 2005, 11:09:18 PM
In my opinion, what has us all stuck on this planet is: we don't know what to do with pain (anything negative....I'm lumping it together).  We do all kinds of things to get out of it or avoid it but we really don't look at it and decide what it is for us or especially, we are not trained how to process it.  We decide pain is BAD and judge it as something to be avoided at all costs.  I'm not advocating looking for pain, but it's there, every single moment we are human.  Accepting it as not bad or good, and seeing what it has to teach us, is fundamental.  

I tried for years to "think positively".  I saw my dad as the most wonderful example of positive thinking and it's manifestations, but as an adult, I couldn't seem to get the hang of it.  For the most part, I have always been rather upbeat, thanks to my dad, but when I really had pain to deal with (and finally dealt with it)  I found I really didn't know what to do with all those strong negative emotions.

I  read everything in sight....listened to every tape on self help and enlightenment,  and although things made perfect sense to my MIND, I did not FEEL it inside.
WHY?  Because although I would KNOW in my HEAD that all these things about positivity were true.....I had no place for this stuff to actually take root and grow.  I had some really screwed up belief systems that were poison soil for any of this.  And that was the deep down first place to start...sterilize the soil as it were. How?  Through my intention.  My focus and intention became to purify and have compassion for myself and change my toxic belief system.

What I found was that I did not know HOW to get rid of the negative.... so I was trying to shut it up and put positive on top of it. But this was all in my head....I wasn't feeling it.  Thinking is one dimensional.  Feeling is two dimensional and the absolute only way to have something become three dimensional or REAL.

I had some help.  I really wanted to learn this....my children/my life depended on my changing.  So in my desperation and choice to change, the universe/God opened a door for me.  

Someone taught me a really simple way of visualizing and meditating that helped me RELEASE pain first before setting my intention of what I wanted (as opposed to what I didn't want!).  

Because it is our nature to fill things up through HABITUAL PATTERN, it was important for me to know that after "letting go" (some people do this through prayer...meditation...whatever it takes) that I fill up that void with  everything I want to FEEL in my life...not just think it.  I actually imagine how things would FEEL.  Some days I just think of something wonderful and simple, because the big stuff is too much (so it's my dogs' soft fur, saying good night to my sweet kids, etc). As long as the void after the release is filled with joy and gratitude, I can change my energy!

All of these things I did happened simultaneously and they go on now....I will never be totally "OK" because I am a fallible human.  But I can deal with that human pain and find joy whenever I want.
 
Mind you, the turning point for me was remarkable, but it took me years to get to that place....and then when I think I am fine, I am right back down there, in the mud, saying.....darn...I really hate this mud...well, at least I know what to do to get out of it.  So I do.

Through our thoughts, feelings and beliefs, we create our lives.
Everything....EVERYTHING is energy.  We are receptacles and transmitters of energy and we get to CHOOSE what we carry around.
Change your energy and change your life.

The universe, in it's infinite love, gives us everything we need to learn and become who we are.  We only need to wake up to it.  We are extremely powerful.

Listen, I could write a book (if anyone could understand me :lol: )
but please understand that I feel a tremendous amount of gratitude for what I am learning and if anything hits anyone here with a tiny shred of helpfulness, I will be grateful again.  Life is a miracle to share.
Title: Anything
Post by: butterfly as guest on May 16, 2005, 11:52:18 PM
Mum,

You said a lot of practical stuff.  Things worthy to be put in book form, IMO.  Just let me know when you'll have your first book signing, I'll be the first in line to get your autograph :D

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on May 17, 2005, 12:51:08 AM
Butterfly you are so sweet....but unless someone gave me a fantastic editor....
besides the directions to the first book signing would be so confusing, no one could get there (or maybe the publisher takes care of that).
I like to think my thoughts make sense to someone, so thank you for telling me that. :D
Title: Anything
Post by: Butterfly again on May 17, 2005, 12:56:18 AM
Mum wrote:

Quote
read everything in sight....listened to every tape on self help and enlightenment, and although things made perfect sense to my MIND, I did not FEEL it inside.
WHY? Because although I would KNOW in my HEAD that all these things about positivity were true.....I had no place for this stuff to actually take root and grow. I had some really screwed up belief systems that were poison soil for any of this. And that was the deep down first place to start...sterilize the soil as it were. How? Through my intention. My focus and intention became to purify and have compassion for myself and change my toxic belief system.

What I found was that I did not know HOW to get rid of the negative.... so I was trying to shut it up and put positive on top of it. But this was all in my head....I wasn't feeling it.


Ditto, ditto, and ditto.  Did I say ditto already? LOL
Yep, that's me you're talking about Mum.

I got to thinking more about what you said about pain...whether it being good/bad or neutral.  That got me to thinking about our own physiological pain receptors.  Yeah, one may think that not being able to feel the pain after scraping our knee may be a good thing.  And wouldn't it be nice if we didn't feel the excruciating pain of stubbing our toe?  The physical pain we feel communicates to us what we need to do something about it.  Imagine what would happen to our open wound if we didn't do anything about it b/c we weren't aware of it??  So, I'm going to say that pain is actually a good thing.  It  benefits us in the long run.  It's a necessary "evil".  I think this concept of pain being beneficial can apply to us on a psychological level as well.

I enjoy reading and mulling over what everybody has to say on different topics.  I learn a lot from them.  But as you can all agree with me, advices can only go so far.  Not that they are unsound or whatever.  But b/c each person's needs, experiences and perception of everything are unique from everyone else's.  What we say comes from our own unique life experience not from anyone else's.  That's why what worked for one person may not necessary work for the next.  I see them as self-limiting but always very valuable and helpful.  

I said that just to say that I tend to see my life in a concentric viewpoint.  I've concluded to myself that there are two main thought processes from which my thinking, feelings, actions eminate.  On a side note, Mum, I'm really happy for you that you've figured out what works for you.  In my case,  I've yet to figure out for myself what works for me...like how to break this cycle of how I see myself which have caused my circle of being to remain static and unexpansive.  Do I make any sense to anyone?

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on May 17, 2005, 04:43:05 AM
Hi mum,

I really liked what you said about the difference between thinking and feeling positive, and putting a scoop of positive onto deeply negative emotions (sorry to paraphrase - too lazy to quote! :oops: ) It's tempting, and maybe necessary in some situations (depending on what one is facing) but it's not ultimately going to change things. Maybe that's what we're all searching for? the way to do this for real? I know in my case I didn't have the skills/support to deal with certain things so I pushed them away and "carried on" until I hit the wall, which was always gonna happen. The wall was so big that I got upset, and decided to stay down. Safer for me. But ultimately a big cheat, and a big mess. I tried "getting out" by putting band-aids on broken bones so to speak, all the while pretending that I was being "positive". But I hope to goodness that real change is finally being broached. It's good to read things like this and get some perspective.

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on May 17, 2005, 11:46:16 AM
HI, 2cents, Butterfly.
Butterfly, you are absolutely right.  It wasn't until I figured out what worked for me, that everything else I had been reading and thinking about finally made sense.  It's all the same message, packaged differently for different people.  Our lives are like that.  We take little bits of learning from everyone and every experience, but when it takes hold in our own bodies and emotions, the learning becomes part of us, and has it's own style entirely.
It is so wonderful, that this love comes in so many languages, prophets, friends, books,  etc. etc.  And the ultimate truth to this is that it is within us....it is internal.  That's why we all need to learn for ourselves.
As a teacher, it is essential that I address as many different learning styles as possible with everything I teach, otherwise very few of my students will internalize what they are learning.
2Cents:  I agree.  Facing into fear is the only way to really deal with it.  I read somewhere: courage means not that you arent' afraid, but that you do this thing you are afraid of anyway.  Go straight into the pain, explore why it hurts, what it is trying to say.  Like Butterfly said....we stop the bleeding if we cut ourselves...we clean our wound, bandage it up and decide never to go without shoes on the construction site again....but with psychological pain, we don't deal at all.  We hide, we drink, we rage, we run.... but it never leaves us until we transform it and deal with it.
Pain is meant to be useful...unfortunately, our running from it becomes  habitual because of it's persistance (ie: human nature).
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on May 17, 2005, 05:40:13 PM
Hi mum,

I think emotional pain is very difficult to deal with appropriately sometimes, which is why we hide. In an ideal world, we would all be given the skills to cope with pain, but that is not always the case. Somethimes people develop coping mecahnisms in order to survive ('voicelessness' being one such example.)

The things is, having survived something doesn't mean you have dealt with it. I get really upset with myself sometimes because I have 'survived' my childhood/ early adulthood, but I haven't dealt with it, which is why I'm stuck where I am today. I have felt pain sometimes, and I was glad of that because it meant I was alive (like when my first love went back to his own country I went into mourning for him.) I was glad, because I got to mourn him, but I have yet to mourn my own mum. THAT pain was too great to bear at the time, so it went underground. I 100% agree with you, pain is an important teacher, but sometimes it's difficult to process even if we want to.

Well, thanks for all your insights and thanks for listening,

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: Butterfly guesting on May 17, 2005, 06:42:16 PM
Hmmm, maybe we are all born with the skills to cope/deal with pain. :roll:   Perhaps, some of us (meaning the general population) have learned to perfect that skill better than others and have learned to use it to their advantage.  I think we all have that skill within us to tap into.  It's just that some of us have to dig deeper to find it than others.  For me the hardest part is finding the right shovel to use.  :shock:

The old saying that goes like this..."practice makes perfect"  is an erroneous statement, IMO.  For me I don't believe practice makes perfect.  Practice just makes permanent.  Which makes perfect sense to me.  If you do something the wrong way over and over again, do you get better at what you are trying to learn in the first place?  You just simply ingrain what you wrongly learned.

I think I went off on a tangent.  Just wanted to put my thoughts in writing.

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: mum as guest on May 17, 2005, 06:50:17 PM
Butterfly, I think your tangent was exquisite!
Title: Anything
Post by: Serena on May 17, 2005, 07:27:38 PM
Quote from: Anonymous
K learning.

I'm going for groceries this afternoon and I going to buy soymilk (step one). 8)

I've read so much about the value of soy.  I've tried tofu, which I just can't seem to get a liking for.  No matter what I do to it, it just doesn't seem like food to me (it's rubber something or slippery slimey stuff or chunky junk, in my brain).  I do eat soy beans smothered in salsa (mixed with brown rice) and not only is it an enjoyable meal, for me, but it sticks to my ribs really well!

But I've never tied the milk and I think it might be an idea to develop a taste for it, first (and without fish anything...it doesn't give me thoughts of hurling!! :shock: ).

I'll let you know when I brave the health food store for the fish oil!!
 :D

GFN


TOFU should be made a crime against humanity.  It's disgusting and you can marinade it forever and it will still be disgusting.  I speak as a vegetarian.....................
Title: Anything
Post by: butterfly guesting on May 17, 2005, 10:41:52 PM
Serena wrote:
Quote
TOFU should be made a crime against humanity. It's disgusting and you can marinade it forever and it will still be disgusting. I speak as a vegetarian.....................


I have to say tofu is a very tricky kind of food and has an unusual texture.  Kinda hard to prepare.  I find tofu to be an excellent addition to clear liquid soups with parsley.  It makes the soups taste quite yummy and good for you too.  Two for the price of one...can't beat that. :D

Marinading tofu??? Sorry, not used to that concept :roll:

butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: mudpuppy on May 17, 2005, 11:21:21 PM
I guess it was GFN up there talking about soy milk.

My wife weaned me off of dairy and onto soy milk. I find the trick to be filling my glass with ice. Makes it taste pretty good when its really cold. Otherwise it has just a hint of sawdust to it which i find none too appealing.
The chocolate soymilk is pretty darn good. We use Silk brand.

Something else pretty tasty is about one third of a glass of plain soy milk to two thirds orange juice. Makes it kind of creamy. I never tried it with vanilla soy milk. Might be even better.

Tofu on the other hand is a byproduct of Hades I believe. :twisted:

mud

PS. Take fish oil in capsules before you eat a meal. No problemo.
Title: Anything
Post by: d'smom on May 18, 2005, 01:08:26 AM
i love how this thread covers ground from deep emotional philosophy to tofu.

its surprising to see such a bland, nonthreatening item as tofu engendering such  animosity!

i guess i must be satanic becuase i liiiiiike tofu!!!!! bwaaahahhahaaa :twisted:  

but the thing is you have to fry it. cut it up or squash it up into peices like ground beef and sautee it, til it gets crispy, with lots of herbs and onions. its really good in spaghetti sauce that way.

i also like it sliced into thin soups with parsely.

also its kind of hard to deal with tofu without soy sauce. soy sauce makes all the difference.

why am i defending tofu? who knows.  i dont even like to see people gang up on soybean curd. what a nut.
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on May 18, 2005, 08:35:48 AM
Quote
i dont even like to see people gang up on soybean curd.


We must always be prepared to protect the defenseless members of society.  :shock:   Maybe someone should start a support group.  :wink:

I can't say that I'm a fan, but can't find it in my heart to abuse it and say anything unkind.  You know what your mother taught you . . . If you can't say something nice . . .

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2005, 08:39:52 AM
On Monday evening we had another older troop visit our Brownie troop (our last meeting of the year).  My coleader did some bragging about our town, etc to the leader of the visiting troop.  She even went so far as to say to the other leader, "Its' rough over there"....meaning her town.

About ten minutes into our meeting (which is held at the local elementary school (in the cafeteria which is enclosed in glass) there was a knock at one of the full length windows....we all look over including our troop of 1st graders and low and behold a teenage boy was mooning us.  He took off and the leader of the visting troop went out after him but he was long gone.  40 mins later he returned and began urinating outside in plain view of all to see.  

I said loud enough for the other leaders to overhear, "talk about God humbling us".  My coleader said, Huh?  What are you talking about.  I said never mind.

On a sidenote: The custodians phoned the police but the kid was long gone again.  

Funny how we never had any problems alll year until the last meeting after one of us was touting our town as the place to be.  Yeah, it's the place to be alright.  :wink:

Mia
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2005, 10:26:09 AM
Hey mia,

Two thoughts come to mind,

1."Pride goeth before destruction and a haughty look before a fall."

and 2. "Kids, whats the matter with kids today? Kids, can't undersatnd a thing they say..........Why can't they be like we were, perfect in every way, whats the matter with kids todayyyy".


Not trying to make light of it, just made me think of that song.
How did the girls react?
Maybe you should have turned the pack loose to hammer the jerk. He probably would have been pretty easy to catch with his trousers around his ankles.

mudpup
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2005, 10:33:23 AM
Hi Mudpup,

Some of the girls said, "EWWW GROSS!".  Most of them sat with shocked looks on their faces.  It was gross.  I really find no enjoyment looking at someone's hairy butt.  :shock:

Punks will be punks.

Mia
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2005, 11:15:30 AM
Hi everybody:

Mia:  Did the kids laugh at the moon and the peeing?? :D God has a sense of humour too, I bet. :D  :D

Reminds me of high school days and streakers!! :D  :D
One guy in our school waited until near the end of the school year, during the last big assembly of the year, (where practically the whole population of 3000 were present), until the principal was up on the stage speaking......to run....totally naked except for a gorrilla head/mask and hairy fur feet, down the centre isle of the auditorium, straight to the stage and directly infront of the principal, where he did a 90 degree turn- stage right, went out the stage door.....never to be seen nude again by that particular group of people!!! :shock:

Halarious!!  The whole place was in uncontrollable laughter for a good 15 minutes.  The principal announced/promised/swore to punish the disrespectful streaker to the full extent of school law....but alas.....he vanished.  (Must have had an accomplice :evil: ).

Personally, I liked those streaker days.....when one might be walking in the park with friends and some ghostly white totally nude line of truly courageous people would go racing by yelling:  "Streak!!!  Streak!!!" and the poor little old ladies would shudder (that part wasn't nice) and maybe smile a little sheepishly too, after shuddering (realizing it was all a joke), while the rest of us would just laugh and say:  "Crazy dorks eh?  Gotta give 'em credit for having guts though.  Look at 'em go!!  Could you run that fast?"  And then those news reports of people being arrested for "streaking" and the mad dash to wrap them in anything to cover their stuff or the blackout lines that would appear in the tv screen, sparing us all from the trauma of seeing the whole "streaker".

Those days added spontaneous halarity to life....something never before seen or since, as far as I know, on that type of scale.  People's mothers would say:  "Don't you dare streak!!" and then laugh too, when one or a group of them went by.  It was hard not to laugh.  All those hairy butts (they were usually male...those streakers) zooming by, leaving one wondering if one really saw what one thought one just saw or what??? :?  :shock:  :D And all the confused, dazed, shocked, then giggle faced people, following the streakers, as they disappeared, over the horizon, or behind a building, or out a door.
Too funny, if you ask me. :D  :D

Anyhow, speaking of tofu.....ummm......ok....maybe I'll try the soup thingy.  Sometime.  And I won't bully tofu or the soy bean if I can possibly help it. :roll:

I was thinking about the positive thinking thing again and just want to add that I believe it is like any skill......it takes time to develop.  Ok here comes another long shpeeel.  Read or discard or skip or pay attention if you like. :D

I mean, it took awhile to develop whatever negative ways we have of thinking...of forming the habit of thinking that way and so it will also take time to work on changing that way of thinking into a more positive mode.
I do believe it's like any other skill....it can be learned...but it takes time and effort.  And it is well worth achieving.

My home life wasn't always the best, to say the least, when I was a kid, and so I really enjoyed school and looked up to my teachers.  Especially those I decided were really good, knowledgable, caring ones whom I admired and wanted to emulate.   One such teacher once said:

Nothing worth achieving is easy.

That stuck in my head so deep, as so wise and so real.  Once I accepted that idea, it was easier to work toward things I wanted to achieve because I realized it would be hard work. I expected it to be difficult, ignored (to a certain extent) the tough parts, and kept going..until I was able to reach my goal/s.  That teacher taught me something more valuable than just about anything else I have ever learned.

So, I guess I have the advantage of learning to think a certain way, from quite a young age, because I was lucky to have such wonderful teachers that influenced me in good ways and taught me to look at things from many positive perspectives.

The thing is......nothing worth achieving isssssss easy.  So...it is logical to expect stuff worth achieving to be hard, sometimes at least.  I believe thinking positive thoughts, often, consistently, is something worth striving for and achieving.  It is not easy.  It takes effort and time and repetition but it is worth it.  There is no possible way that anyone will think positive stuff all of the time, nor would that be something to expect or want.  It would be too perfect and as humans, we are incapable of that.

Bad stuff happens and so life goes.  But.....even in those bad times....I know I have trained myself to think good things between suffering, to look for something bright in the darkness, to never give up hope that things will get better, to believe in the possibility of good times ahead and good things happening....of solving problems.....and so even in my most difficult moments....I find those thoughts crossing my mind and reminding me to never give up...to try harder....that nothing worth achieving is easy.

This helps me survive and thrive in the world and I'm not saying I never get down, I'm saying that I seem to only allow myself to be soley down for so long before my "habit" kicks in and says:  "Wait a minute......you don't usually think this way.  Come on.  Things will get better.  All is not lost.  Count your blessings.  Be glad things aren't worse.  Look for solutions.  Do the work.  Yada Yada".

It's a skill....learned....practiced....worked toward.....formed into habit.

I'm saying all this for those who feel like they are losing hope....who come here begging for help because they are feeling just about as low as one can get.  When in such a state, it can be said that we are in a very negative state and need to do something to move to a more positive state....in order to survive.

Here are some things I do when I'm feeling stuck in negative mode.
These aren't my inventions.  They have helped many.

1.  Get up and move........to a different spot in your home, preferable outdoors, or at least to another room.

(This tells your brain that your environment has just changed :arrow: gets brain into adapt mode...where it has to adjust...can and often does momentarily stop negative thoughts).

It's one decision that is easy enough to make.  Move.  When you're really in the pits....move to another place......physically.

2.  Drink water.  Water is necessary for many chemical reactions to occur naturally and smoothly in your brain.  Think of water as clensing, soothing, purifying, hydrating, enhancing chemical processes in your brain.  We need water to keep those chemical reactions occurring properly and to flush some chemicals that temporarily become overloaded (which is what happens when we are really in a negative state.....certain chemicals go into overload and need to be flushed out).

3.  Tell yourself:  "I'm ok".  These two words give your mind a quick emotional break.  Easy to remember.  Two little words.  They can help break a pattern of thinking that is not helping you, at this point.

4.  Then tell yourself:  "No more of this neg junk for 5 minutes".  5 minutes isn't a very long time, is it?  Surely you can stop thinking negatively for a mere 5 minutes and live to tell about it, right?  Just 5 minutes (I know...it's a trick....but it works).

5.  Focus on something.....anything good for the entire 5 minutes.  I like to walk outside and find a bird to watch, a rock to admire, or a tree to observe.  If the weather is crappy then I might look at a picture of someone I love, talk, play with, pat/hug my dog/s, or sit in a chair, close my eyes, relax my body, and visualize something lovely...like the waves on the ocean, blue sky, white sand, sail boats......whatever is nice and soothing and enjoyable.  Consciously focussing on something positive is key to switching from negative to positive mode, especially when in distress.

6.  Breath......deeply, slowly, paying attention to each breath, feeling the oxygen coming into your lungs, and letting yourself exhale slowly and comfortably.  Oxygen is also detrimental to many chemical processes in the brain.   Breathing deeply allows more oxygen into our lungs, into our cells, which circulates to our brain.  Breathing deeply and slowly can actually slow and strengthen our heart rate, which makes the movement of that oxygened blood more efficient and allows for it to be delivered to our brain cells quicker and more fully than short, quick breathing does (which is what we do under stress/in fight and flight mode......which is meant for short periods and not healthy as a long term response to stress).  Remembering to breath can be a real life safer, helping us to think clearer and relax some, during stressful periods.  Negative mode is a stressful period when our brains need more oxygen to work more efficiently.

7.  Now do something else.  By now, you should be successfully out of negative mode...even though it has only been a short period.  You can now decide to go do something enjoyable or useful, to give yourself a break from focussing on your troubles.  You can return to your problems later, when you are feeling stronger and more able to actually deal with them, or when you feel the need to release more feelings.  But for now...go wash the dishes, do a craft, call a friend, read, watch tv, anything that will distract you for awhile.  This is not denial...it's a break from suffering.  It's a good thing to give your brain a little break.   It will work better afterward.

8.  Repeat and extend numbers 1,2,3, 4, 5 and 6 to form a new habit.  If you are in the habit of thinking negative thoughts, for long periods of time,  focussing on the negative stuff in your life and breathing as if you are being chased by a bear, depriving your brain/body of plenty of water and staying in one spot.......it will do you good to work on changing this.
Your brain will thank you later.

9.  Plan.  When you feel better, not so negative about everything, open to considering different ideas.....sit down and try to examine one problem at a time.  Try to discover solutions.  Try to think of ways to improve the situation.  Try to find things you can do to make your life more tolerable, enjoyable, satisfying, etc.

10.  Which goes hand in hand with number 10.....make lists....write stuff down.  Even if it seems silly.  Look it over and see if there is anything that you can live with.  See if there are things that can be done/thought of differently/dealt with in a reasonable way.  Try to list what you need/want ..what your needs/wants are and how to work towards satisfying them.  You may decide you need a therapist to help you with this.  You may decide you need a lawyer, a doctor, a minister or a friend to guide you.  You may see things on your own, that you hadn't thought of before because you were stuck seeing only the black, not the white or the grey/gray(??? :shock:  :) ).  Repeat 7, 8, 9 and 10 often.....to form a habit.

Sorry if I bored anyone. :oops:  :oops: Hope all this blabbing helps even one person.  Negative thinking doesn't just keep us emotionally off keel...it can have a negative physical effect too.  It's tough on our physical hearts.  Can cause all kinds of illnesses/or enhance those illnesses that are already present.  Positive thinking can help people recover from a lot.  10 minutes, morning and night, of relaxing, breathing, focussing can help to form a new habit which will enhance health.  Drinking more water (and eating a healthy diet) enhances all aspects of health.  Doing activities we enjoy or give us a sence of accomplishment...enhances life period...gives us stuff to look forward to...and gives a break from the pain.  There is no doubt about it.
It will not cause harm to work toward positive mode....as a habit.

Hypocondriacs really believe they are sick.  Placebos really do cure some of their illnesses.  What better proof of what the mind can do and undo is there?

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2005, 11:30:58 AM
Hey GFN,

I think you better measure that last post and then go back to longtire's original. Could be close to a new record. :wink:  :P  :roll:  :shock:

Thanks for caring about people here enough to put that much thought into our lives. :D

mud
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2005, 11:58:59 AM
Muddy,

You're so sweet to thank me.  Thankyou for bothering to do that.

Just to set the record straight.....Longtire.....you win.  I don't want to invade that competition or take away that accomplishment from you!

 :oops:  :oops: There's probably a condensed version of that last post of mine, some place, but it hasn't surfaced yet. :?   Maybe in my next life eh?
 :D  8)

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: longtire on May 18, 2005, 12:31:29 PM
Quote from: GFN
Just to set the record straight.....Longtire.....you win.  I don't want to invade that competition or take away that accomplishment from you!

GFN, I think you have a new record! :D  Great post, I am writing down the points to carry with me.  I have really seen that it is much better for me to do planning for what to do in a bad mood, only while I am in a good mood.  Then when I have a problem I just have to read the plan and follow it, regardless of how I feel in the moment.
Title: Anything
Post by: butterfly guesting on May 18, 2005, 12:32:01 PM
GFN wrote:
Quote
Sorry if I bored anyone.


The only thing you bored is the demon of negativity.  What a jerk that demon is  :x  :x  :x  :!:   Can you see it yawning, rolling its eyes and jeering at your words  :shock:  :shock: :roll:  :lol:  Cuz what you said has a lot of truth in it.  I find what you said quite helpful to me and bring me back to the days of Anatomy and Physiology.  Particularly, when you talked about the physiological affects of neg/positive thinking.

What you said about making a habit of replacing negative thinking with positive thinking hits home for me.  I agree, it's about replacing unproductive habits with productive habits and keep practicing with it til it becomes second nature.  Yes mame, practice makes permanent.

Thanks GFN for the reminder!!!

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: Just visiting on May 18, 2005, 01:16:49 PM
I have a dilemma in the form of a question.  How do you stay unattached to people or ideas while maintaining a level of connectedness with them?  In other words, how do you keep people at arms length, but at the same time, stay connected and intuned to them?  This has something to do with creating a personal boundary for yourself, but not creating a wall.

I'm interested to read how others would approach it.

Thanks.
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on May 18, 2005, 02:21:46 PM
Just visiting,

I'd love to know more about that too.

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2005, 03:17:05 PM
Hey GFN

When I told my hubby about the mooning he laughed his butt off. No pun intended.

The girls didn't like the peeing b/c he did it on their school building.  We could see the wet spot it left on the bricks. YUCK!

Hopefully it didn't inspire any of our girls to want to streak.

Did I get you in the spirit to streak?  :wink:

Have a good one.

Mia
Title: Anything
Post by: longtire on May 18, 2005, 03:19:15 PM
GFN, the more I think about this, the more I feel compelled to reply again. :D So much "self-help" advice sounds good.  "Think positively!"  But the first thing that immediately pops into my head is HOW?!?!?!?  Yes, I agree thinking positively rather than negatively is a good thing.  How exactly do I get from where I am to that point?  A lot of advice ends at the witty saying.  Reading self-help books is good because they go into a lot of explanation about the background information and why their techniques work.  That takes a lot of time and clarity that I may not have in the midst of a crisis.  Most of the time, I would just like a brief list like yours with step-by-step instructions on how I can get started immediately.  I think your list is a great example of this.  Thanks again for posting! :)

(((((((((((GFN)))))))))))
Title: Anything
Post by: Visitor on May 18, 2005, 04:50:48 PM
I just want to share an excerpt from a book I'm reading.

Each day, when I awaken, I will follow this plan of battle before I am captured by the forces of sadness, self-pity and failure...

If I feel depressed I will sing.
If I feel sad I will laugh.
If I feel ill I will double my labor.
If I feel fear I will plunge ahead.
If I feel inferior I will wear new garments.
If I feel uncertain I will raise my voice.
If I feel poverty I will think of wealth to come.
If I feel incompetent I will remember past success.  
If I feel insignificant I will remember my goals.

Today I will be master of my emotions.

I will laugh at myself for man is most comical when he takes himself too seriously.

I will make allowances for his anger and irritation of today for he knows not the secret of controlling his mind.

I will say to myself, "this too shall pass"
For all worldly things shall indeed pass.  When I am heavy with heartache I shall console myself that this too shall pass.  When I am puffed with success I shall warn myself that this too shall pass.

Failure will never overtake you if your determination to succeed is strong enough.
Title: Anything
Post by: d'smom on May 18, 2005, 06:11:14 PM
Quote
Anyhow, speaking of tofu.....ummm......ok....maybe I'll try the soup thingy.  Sometime.  And I won't bully tofu or the soy bean if I can possibly help it. :roll:



im glad. it really is good in spaghetti sauce. :)  and im squeamish about texture... i cant even eat plain yogurt.

now GFN, this next bit was just so good, that I am going to REINFORCE it! because, reinforcement is the way to learn new stuff, and the things you said were so so good they bear reinforcing, so here goes. its a great synthesis of the whole 'how to be positive' thing.



Quote
I mean, it took awhile to develop whatever negative ways we have of thinking...
I do believe it's like any other skill....it can be learned...but it takes time and effort.  And it is well worth achieving.

Nothing worth achieving is easy.



YES YES YES YES YES. its a skilll, its a habit, and skills and habits can be built, step by step, with persistence and dedication, just like the negative ones were. we were convinced step by step over long periods of time that we were worthless and horrible, and we can turn it around, step by step by step, over time. lets say I heard 1000 times in my life, "you are worthless". and i came to believe it. thats how advertising and propaganda works. repetition and reinforcement.  well, then I need to say to myself at least 1000 times, "you are worthwhile". and it =will= sink in, just as I came to believe that other thing. but it needs to be constantly reinforced, just like the other beliefs were. it takes work and time and it will take root. 1000 times is a lot of times, so all the more reason to get started.


i want to reinforce your 'steps' becuase very similar steps have been very very helpful for me..  and they have been so incredibly useful that i want to 'second' everything you are saying here. you said:



Here are some things I do when I'm feeling stuck in negative mode.
These aren't my inventions.  They have helped many.

1.  Get up and move........to a different spot in your home, preferable outdoors, or at least to another room.


yes..... do -anything- to create momentum away from your usual trajectory. i think the name for it is... inertia? you will keep moving the way you have been moving, unless you actively change it? maybe scientists could help with that one. but, one thing I would add to this, is keep your goals real small at first. be happy with tiny baby steps.  just go outside for a minute. take a different way home from the store. be very very happy with yourself if you are able to do something even a little something different. allow yourself to feel success. build on that success. rome wasnt built in a day.

there is evidence that thought processes actually form physical structures in the brain, somewhat like erosion marks. where water has flowed in great amounts, there will be deep furrows. where your thoughts have flowed for years, there will be established pathways. you kind of have to consciously choose to chip away a new path for your thoughts, starting small, like digging a new path for water that has flowed a certian way for a long time.



2.  Drink water.  Water is necessary for many chemical reactions to occur naturally and smoothly in your brain.  

yup. water is so helpful for thinking clearly and helping your cells work.  to take this further, when i have a bottle of water on the counter, I will visualise onto it all my positive thoughts, positive colors, whatever im visualising, so that I am 'drinking' positive thoughts, whenever  i drink the water. its just another little tiny thing, but the idea is, all those tiny things, add up mentally over time.

i also want to add to this, eat food, which is kind of obvious. when im depressed, i tend to not allow myself to eat; and i really have to remind myself that i deserve to eat and that i deserve to be alive.

one habit i have done for several years is to say to myself whenver i eat or drink anything: "why am i doing this? becuase I love myself, and I deserve good things." it reminds me and focuses me. its positive propaganda, to counter all the voices that told me i was unlovable and  undeserving. i love myself, and i deserve good things. i say that to myself with every thing that i eat.



3.  Tell yourself:  "I'm ok".  These two words give your mind a quick emotional break.  Easy to remember.  Two little words.  They can help break a pattern of thinking that is not helping you, at this point.


another great step.  to expand upon this  - may i suggest continual talking back to yourself. (maybe not out loud unless your alone!) this has helped me hugely. I used to hear in my head all the time a voice that said 'you cant'. at a certain point i started saying to myself everytime i heard that - YES I CAN!!!!

whenver I hear that voice in my head saying 'i cant' i say immediately, 'yes i can'. i argue with these voices. i never let them get the last word. when something in my head tries to tell me something negative, I argue with it. I come up with a counterstatement, and i will instantly argue with myself whenver i hear myself trying to be negative or run a negative tape. IT WORKS.   like anything. its a habit. it can take several years. but, it =will= work. its been several years, but i rarely hear that voice, and when i do, i squash it very fast. before it used to domnate my thoughts.

if you know you have something negative you continually hear or think, think of something to say back to it, and do it.  keep doing it. it will make a difference.



4.  Then tell yourself:  "No more of this neg junk for 5 minutes".  5 minutes isn't a very long time, is it?  

you have to let yourself get a break. if you have a broken arm, they will give you aspirin. nobody expects people to sit there in physical pain 24/7. you have to have a break from mental pain too.



5.  Focus on something.....anything good for the entire 5 minutes.  I like to walk outside and find a bird to watch, a rock to admire, or a tree to observe.  If the weather is crappy then I might look at a picture of someone I love, talk, play with, pat/hug my dog/s, or sit in a chair, close my eyes, relax my body, and visualize something lovely...like the waves on the ocean, blue sky, white sand, sail boats......whatever is nice and soothing and enjoyable.


people here might remember those 'mood rings' from the '70s that change color with your mood. i had one of those last year and played some games with it when i was in a bad space mentally. i found that i could change the color of the mood ring, by looking at photographs of my daughter. IT WORKS. simply looking at her face, caused me to relax. you can change your mood, by focusing on or immersing yourself in something positive for you. it wont just happen easily maybe. it may take a little practice and persistence. so does anything in life. but it will work.


6.  Breath......deeply, slowly, paying attention to each breath, feeling the oxygen coming into your lungs, and letting yourself exhale slowly and comfortably.  Oxygen is also detrimental to many chemical processes in the brain.   Breathing deeply allows more oxygen into our lungs, into our cells, which circulates to our brain.  Breathing deeply and slowly can actually slow and strengthen our heart rate, which makes the movement of that oxygened blood more efficient and allows for it to be delivered to our brain cells quicker and more fully than short, quick breathing does (which is what we do under stress/in fight and flight mode......which is meant for short periods and not healthy as a long term response to stress).  Remembering to breath can be a real life safer, helping us to think clearer and relax some, during stressful periods.  Negative mode is a stressful period when our brains need more oxygen to work more efficiently.


cant possibly ever say enough about breathing.  if breathing can get a woman through labor, it can get people through anything..... you can =always= always  always breathe. its good for panic. its good for insomnia. its good for depression. there is nothing that more oxygen isnt good for. theres a million breathing exercises out there and i reeeeallllly recommend learning some. its something anyone can do, its free, you dont need any equipment, medicine, etc, and it really really =really= REALLY helps.



7.  Now do something else.  By now, you should be successfully out of negative mode...even though it has only been a short period.  You can now decide to go do something enjoyable or useful, to give yourself a break from focussing on your troubles.  You can return to your problems later, when you are feeling stronger and more able to actually deal with them, or when you feel the need to release more feelings.  


i agree. once you have chipped out a new pathway, take a few steps onto it. strengthen it.  you will need to keep digging for quite a while, to establish that pathway as a road, and then pave it, and then put up signs... and then little orange juice stands.. then a pizza place... after awhile you will be driving your new road instead of the old one, which will hopefuly soon be reclaimed by the landscape, through disuse. but rome wasnt built in a day. it must be done bit by bit with repetition and intent.



8.  Repeat and extend numbers 1,2,3, 4, 5 and 6 to form a new habit.  If you are in the habit of thinking negative thoughts, for long periods of time,  focussing on the negative stuff in your life and breathing as if you are being chased by a bear, depriving your brain/body of plenty of water and staying in one spot.......it will do you good to work on changing this.


plan to repeat these steps a lot of times. it didnt take us overnight to get this way. it wont take overnight to get out. that doesnt mean it isnt worth working at.


9.  Plan.  When you feel better, not so negative about everything, open to considering different ideas.....sit down and try to examine one problem at a time.  Try to discover solutions.  Try to think of ways to improve the situation.  

10.  Which goes hand in hand with number 10.....make lists....write stuff down.  Even if it seems silly.  Look it over and see if there is anything that you can live with.  See if there are things that can be done/thought of differently/dealt with in a reasonable way.  Try to list what you need/want ..what your needs/wants are and how to work towards satisfying them.



ok, i list EVERYTHING.  i keep a notebook - and every day i write down a list. this list is:

goals (meaning what my goals are and steps to meet them)
art (my job)
eat (whether i ate)
water (whether i drank water)
chores (how much energy i put towards chores)
exercise (whether i exercised)
techniques (meaning breathing or emotional techniques, whether they were necesary, and if they were, what feelings i was having that made me need them)


at the end of the day, i put a number next to each of those categories depending on whether i did them or not. i give myself credit and allow myself to feel successful, if i was able to do those things even a tiny bit. if i dont, i just write 'REST' next to them, becuase that was a day i needed to rest, so thats what i did instead. whichever i did, i give myself credit for it.

these are called 'self cueing techniques'. they allow me to see waht im doing, when im doing it, why im doing it, and how im feeling about it. it keeps me focused and helps me appreciate myself and track my changes. its a hugely useful tool to keep moving and focused. it might seem stupid or juvenile to many people, but a lot of times, we sabotage ourselves becuase we are afraid to look stupid or juvenile. sometimes, you have to start with those baby steps. its either start with a baby step or never start. id rather start with a baby step.

these techniques would be different for everyone depending on what your goals are. they are a way to learn about yourself, stay focused on your goals, and be sure that your actions are matching your intent.

they can also give you information about your emotions and what they are connected to and why they come up. it gives you a way to feel good about what you are doing right. sometimes you find you are doing more 'right' than you thought you were. sometimes you find you are doing something obvious that you need to stop but would never have noticed otherwise.

some people might not be so bad off that they need to do that every day. for people that are really really bad off, <like i have been and still am> i recommend it as a lifeline. if you do it over a really long time you can also see how far youve come which can feel really good.

if you have a therapist they can help you figure out self-cuing techniques that are good for you.

 
Negative thinking doesn't just keep us emotionally off keel...it can have a negative physical effect too.  It's tough on our physical hearts.  Can cause all kinds of illnesses/or enhance those illnesses that are already present.  Positive thinking can help people recover from a lot.  10 minutes, morning and night, of relaxing, breathing, focussing can help to form a new habit which will enhance health.  Drinking more water (and eating a healthy diet) enhances all aspects of health.  Doing activities we enjoy or give us a sence of accomplishment...enhances life period...gives us stuff to look forward to...and gives a break from the pain......

Hypocondriacs really believe they are sick.  Placebos really do cure some of their illnesses.  What better proof of what the mind can do and undo is there?



i am with you 10000000000%.

the thing is.... in the physical world, if you want a baloney sandwich, you cant just wish for one and have it appear... you have to get the bread, get the mustard, spread it around, slice it, wash a plate, before you have a sandwich. i think its the same in the mental/emotional world. you cant just wish to be better or to have something different and have it appear. you have to build it, step by step, just like a sandwich or any other thing.

great great post GFN, like always. thank you. :)

take care
Anna
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2005, 07:34:06 PM
Wow!  Longtire!  That's a great idea!  Making a plan of what to do when in a bad mood and then following it!  Makes real sense!  Good for you!!
And thankyou for the hug and the second post and saying my list helped.  I'm so glad!!  I have to do the same thing sometimes.....keep the list close by and consciously choose to look at it.

And yes, Butterfly....negativity can be a demon sometimes, can't it?  If it gets it's grip on us, sinks it's claws in, and drags us down......it's time to fight back!!! :evil:  Take a stand against it!!  Don't let it win!! 8)  8) , imo.

You've coined a really cool phrase, Butterfly:

Quote
Practice makes permanent.


Totally logical and sensible, that one is!!  Thanks!!  It's a good one to remember....so realistic....not perfect....permanent.  Much more achievable/doable/maintainable.

Thankyou Visitor for sharing that excerpt from the book you are reading.
What great stuff!!  If we all followed that..... we'd all be much more positive about ourselves and our world.  I've copied, printed (to read to me), and saved to send to friends.  Much appreciated!! :D

Anna....wow!!  Thankyou so much for taking the time to reinforce the ideas and for adding your own stuff.  The more I think about it...the more glad I am that I posted.  I almost didn't because....(that self-doubt creeps in)...I worried that it might sound silly, or like preaching, or like I know it all.......but.....I decided to risk it (mostly because I know....a lot of the time...my fears are just silly and I need to ignor them...go ahead in spite of them).  I'm so glad you put your thoughts in.  I love the way you explained the "pathway".  I've read about that too and it does seem reasonable and doable.  And the stuff about self-cueing techniques!  I haven't heard of that but that sounds really useful.  Especially...if one does it for awhile and then looks back...to see the progress.  I like it.  It sounds simple and not time consuming (which I tend to get lax about techniques that require a whole lot of time out of my day.....I'm not patient enough either, sometimes :oops:  :oops: ).  But a neat little technique like that....doesn't sound too hard to do and certainly worthwhile.

And your way of putting it.....working on improving our thinking...in a more positive direction.....more often.....like making a sandwich!!!  Yes!!

To quote you:  Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes!!!!

It is like that.  It does take small steps.  And repetition is truly necessary.  There are no one shot read this book cure yourself of ever thinking another negative thought processes to be had (I left out all the dashes I really wanted to put in there because the last time I did that..it made the page really wide...on another thread.  Learned my lesson..I hope :oops: ).  Such easy, quick fixes don't exist.

There is only....consistent...work and habit forming/breaking techniques.
And they do work.   For many.  And for those who say they don't work....I wonder.....if they just haven't decided to make them work yet???

Mia asked me:

Quote
Did I get you in the spirit to streak?


Nope.  Sorry Mia.  I have never Struck ( :shock:  :?  :D ).  I have always been one of those who stood in the sidelines, cheered my head off, and laughed my guts out...and swore:  "I'll never streak!!  Yep!!  I'm chicken and proud of it!!"  Haven't changed my mind so far, but thanks for offering?? :shock:  :roll:  :?  :D

Just visiting wrote:
Quote
I have a dilemma in the form of a question. How do you stay unattached to people or ideas while maintaining a level of connectedness with them? In other words, how do you keep people at arms length, but at the same time, stay connected and intuned to them? This has something to do with creating a personal boundary for yourself, but not creating a wall.

I'm interested to read how others would approach it.


I'm totally unable to answer this at this time.  I need more information about what exactly you mean and why you feel a need to do this???
If you feel like expanding.

It sounds like you're asking:  How do I move away and stay connected, at the same time?

If this is truly what you are asking......I would have to say...I have absolutely no idea.  I would be tempted to pick one or the other.

If you mean..that you wish to continue having contact with someone you wish to disconnect from.....then my opinion would be that you will have to keep the conversation very simple, non-emotional, about the weather, the news, hobbies, nothing heavy....and the visits short.  Or....visualize in your mind....the person in some form that keeps you smiling (such as wearing something silly, or having a funny face) and understand that you are dealing with, as bunny has simply defined Nish behaviour......a person who behaves like a toddler (and be prepared to deal with a toddler).

2cents.  Glad you're reading and posting here.  I hope others have more to add to this question.....or a better understanding of it....to share.

Have a great evening all!!!
 :D  :D

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Butterfly guesting on May 18, 2005, 09:02:30 PM
(((GFN)))

You are one cool rockin' bean :wink:

Butterfly :D  :D  :D
Title: Anything
Post by: Just visiting on May 18, 2005, 09:15:13 PM
GFN wrote:
Quote
If you mean..that you wish to continue having contact with someone you wish to disconnect from.....then my opinion would be that you will have to keep the conversation very simple, non-emotional, about the weather, the news, hobbies, nothing heavy....and the visits short. Or....visualize in your mind....the person in some form that keeps you smiling (such as wearing something silly, or having a funny face) and understand that you are dealing with, as bunny has simply defined Nish behaviour......a person who behaves like a toddler (and be prepared to deal with a toddler).


Well, what I mean is how do you guard yourself from becoming needy of other people's approval while still connecting with them on an emotional level.  For example, how do you prevent yourself from being bent out of shape by someone's disapproval of you in words or actions.  Like how do you develop the mentality to not let ppl's disapproval or lack of affirmation not stick onto you like a thumbtack or not have it affect your self-esteem?  How do you disassociate your self-esteem from other ppl's approval or disapproval of you?  I hope I'm a little bit clearer this time around.

Thanks.
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2005, 11:32:26 PM
Hi again all:

I just watched the 4th part of a program I've been following on CBC television called:  "The Nature of Things - Passion and Fury - part 4 - The Emotions".

It was soooooo in tune with what we've been talking about here that I just can't resist another long post because I found it quite facinating (but not surprising).  So if you've had enough of this stuff.....quit now while you're ahead (or....stay tuned for more info that might help or enhance your knowledge of this topic) :D

I took notes (if you can believe it  :shock: ).  The program began by informing us that there is one part of the brain, that has recently been identified as the Amigdula (absolutely have no idea how to spell it :? ).  It is important in regard to the emotional centre of the brain (which is believed to have been developed long before the thinking/rational part of the brain, which came much later in the evolution of the brain).  The Amigdula helps regulate emotions.

I found this interesting because up until now, my understanding has been that we have an emotional centre in our brain that is responsible for our emotional responses....and so a new thingy....that actually helps regulate our emotional responses......is an interesting twist.  It's something new that can be studied...to see if there is a way to enhance it's regulation, if medications might effect it, all kinds of neat stuff.

They were speaking quite a bit about happiness and interviewing different scientists and came to the conclusion that happiness may be defined as:

The absence of distressing emotions.

They showed a long detailed study they did, giving ipods to people in 61 countries, all over the world, who were living in different conditions of wealth, poverty, etc and the people recorded their feelings of happiness, several times daily and answered other questions pertaining to a happy state, as well as other details...who they were with, whether they were working, etc and they entered all the data into a pc and came up with.....

80% of the people in the world are basically happy.

They talked about how negative/distressing emotions cause our brain to release seritonin which usually calms us down and how people with depression...do not have enough seritonin....therefore..stay in a depressed state and how certain drugs....prozac (SSRI's) raise seritonin levels....but not really adequately.  The general consensus among the physicians is that no pill really works to cure depression (which has always been my belief....that meds for depression simply cover up symptoms and do not cure the problem---just my opinion but it's interesting to see this spoken of by scientists and doctors, many of whom had previously encouraged the use of meds for depression).

The final analysis revealed that thoughts.....are what spin out into depression and that to counteract these thoughts.....we must train the mind.

Next, they examined some Budists and talked about how they have secrets for training the mind, which they have kept for thousands of years and how their goal is:

Freeing their inner selves of all negativity and instilling a nurturing compassion for all people.

It was noted by the scientists that this compassion may be influential in many kinds of behaviour (no kidding guys :shock: ).

They talked about how the laughing clubs , in which people get together and simply laugh and laugh to release endorphins and certain hormones that make them feel good, originated in India and have spread all over the world (I'm seriously considering looking for one of these....even just for the experience of going once :D ).  How laughing regularly has now been proven to enhance health and well being.

They talked about how scientific study has revealed that meditation indeed decreases stress and increases immunity to disease.

One interesting study that was discussed, was one in which they found that intense electrical energy is present in the left side of the prefrontal cortex of the brains of people who are really happy, and that there is more of this electrical energy on the right side of the prefrontal cortex of the brains of depressed people.

They took 41 participants and had them do serious meditation, for 8 weeks.  They attached zillions of electrodes to their heads and measured the electrical energy, which they found was much increased on the left side of the prefrontal cortexes compared to a control group, who did not meditate.   Conclusion...meditation makes us happier.

Then there was the scientist turned Budist monk (for 3 decades) who came back to science, after all those decades of meditating/practicing mind training.  They did a functional MRI on his brain to examine his emotional state, (in which they look at several slices of his brain per minute), while playing emotional sounds (like babies laughing etc) and told him to put himself into a state of loving kindness (which the Budists call-- Compasionate happiness).  They found his Amigdula to be extremely swollen and active.  They found his set point (the point at which most people's general emotional state of happiness is, which is just to the left side of the prefrontal cortex)...his set point was way off the charts!!  They say this suggests that happiness can be enhanced at will and that there are few people like him on the planet...he's soo happy! :D  :D  :D
He said that Budists believe it is essential to rid the inner self of the negative emotions of anger, jealousy, resentment, anxiety, self-loathing, saddness and confusion.  That they can be replaced with loving kindness/ compasionate happiness by practicing mind training.

The final conclusion was that even short periods of mind training can wire our brains for happiness and all it takes is practice.

They suggested that we are all capable of molding our brains and creating new pathways, that each of us has the potential to enhance our lives, and that profound happiness is within our reach.

So then my advice, Just visiting is this:

Begin by drinking some water and spending several minutes per day relaxing in a comfortable spot, breathing deeply, clearing your mind of all thoughts.  Focus on some lovely picture in your head, for a few more minutes, until you really feel at peace and then make some positive statements/suggestions....silently, repeatedly to yourself such as:

I approve of me.
I am a capable person.
I am a good person.
I am worthy of love.
I believe this very deeply.
I will accept positive statements from others.
I will disregard negative statements from others.
I will remain emotionally calm and clear when I am with those who try to belittle me.
Those who do so are unaware and unhealthy.
I will strive to be healthy.
I will accept only good words from those who are sincere and kind.
I will be sincere and kind to others.
I can easily do this.
It's my choice.
I rely on myself.
I will not be effected by other people's disapproval.
I will pay attention to my accomplishments.
I will reward myself for all I do that is good.
I will remind myself that I am a valuable person.

After awhile of doing this daily, or twice daily would be even better, you will find yourself being much less effected by these people who are trying to put you down and who do not give their approval to you.  You will no longer bend out of shape, but stay beautifully shaped and smiling. :D

I know this sounds too simple but there is now actually scientific data to support such simple stuff as repetitive training of the mind and the benefits it has on our emotional state and well being.

As Anna pointed out....people can say something negative to you 1000 times and you will begin to believe it.  It will take a 1000 times of you saying something positive to yourself for you to believe the positive stuff.

The positive stuff will help you strive and survive this world, this life.
The negative stuff will not.

Take care, Just visiting.  Hope this helps a little.

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 18, 2005, 11:49:11 PM
Quote
You are one cool rockin' bean


Thankyou for the hug Butterfly and for this wonderful compliment which I will return...from one cool rockin' bean to another.....

(((((((((Butterfly)))))))))

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on May 19, 2005, 01:02:22 AM
GFN; ditto on the "you rock" idea.  Sooo glad you posted!!
You're an inspiration to all of us.  Thanks for being you (and for letting us in on it!!!)

Just Visiting:  I think I understand what you are talking about (I hope) when you ask HOW we can detach from needing people's approval yet still  stay involved (ie: not disassociate or become hermits).
It's not easy.  I thought it was only ME who had this problem setting boundaries, not always being an approval seeker.....but I realize this is a struggle for most people.  When I made some strides in those areas recently, I said to my mentor/counselor..."wow, I know it probably sounds like no big deal to others....but it's huge for me"...to which she replied: "no, it's huge for everyone!"  

The answer, I think is in what GFN says and in what I will explain below.  It is internal.  It is a choice.  It is about changing habits and patterns....and that absolutely must start with core beliefs.  I needed to examine what those were first....but I could also start releasing pain, even if I couldn't exactly identify what created the pain at the time or even what my core beliefs were that contributed to that pain.
Sometimes I am still not sure what it is that is causing me the pain....but I do know I want to let it go...and that is enough to start.
Start right where you are. (a title of a great book, by the way, by Pema Chodron).  

And Longtire: I agree that there is a great challenge in KNOWING that positive thoughts feelings and beliefs truly are the way out of pain.... but not knowing HOW to actually DO this in a simple way.  Life is complex. The understanding of how things work is complex.   I found that I needed simplification.  Everybody has a way that works for them (or is seeking it, we hope).  GFN has a fantastically helpful way of approaching life (that I can't wait to integrate!).  I have another thing I do, which is pretty much the same type of thing, just simpler in the how to..

I, too, felt overwhemed by ALL this knowledge I had found....how to apply it was even more daunting, I thought.  But a wonderful teacher was delivered to me.......I say this because I didn't know I was seeking her exactly, it just sort of happened.  She told me I needed simple things and she was right.  I tend to spiral into complexity rather quickly (duh, just watch!!) so I needed something easy to help me out.

OKAY: A bit of a warning: not an excuse, because I know this works for me, but this may sound "airy fairy, oooh ahh, white light" to some people.
Sorry, can't help that.  If you look closely, you will see this basic tenet of healing in most religions.... the names may be different, the direction of energy may be different... you get the picture.
I also humbly thank God for giving me this learning, and apologize in advance, if I screw this up.  My intention is love, I assure you.

It's a 1, 2, 3 kind of thing.  The philosophy is simple (unconditional, universal love) and also complex (we are a result of all of our thoughts feelings and beliefs, and through them we create our lives...and then some).  The biggest problem with postive thinking philosophy is that letting go of the negative must happen for there to be any room for the positive to grow....and in most books on the subject, the "how to let go" is missing, (I have found).

The process I use is this:

1) Identify your pain and SAY IT OUTLOUD (ok, so even if it is to yourself you have stated it and given it a name!)and say: but this is my pain....

2) Breathe in the pain and RELEASE it down to the center of the earth from the base of your spine (actually from your seventh chakra...but you don't have to know about those to do this) Visulaize something as wide as your hips such as collumn of light, a waterfall.....anything....(I have to do this a lot over some things.)  Breathe in an with your intention, release the pain down this "grounding cord", while you exhale.  Pain is sooo tough, that breathing helps us connect to it and give it substance, I guess.   I usually visualize a waterfall with a large flushing of sorts...as my ex gives me so much S**T (and why would I hold onto his S*** if I can let go of it??) When your pain hits the center of the earth, it turns back into love, or goes back to whom it belongs.  I prefer the love thing....as transforming it appeals to me more than anyone (including that malcontent ex) getting even more pain....but either way, you are not ADDING pain to the world, you are either not taking it or transforming it and actively healing the world.

3) REPROGRAM my body for how I WANT to feel.  This is essential, because of what GFN was talking about.   We are creatures of habit, and a void will quickly fill up through habit....if our habit is obsessively thinking about our problem...well then, we will be right back at the beginning. That's ok....I find I do that a lot.  So I just do 1, 2,3 again and again.

And here is another thing: a lot of us know exactly how we DON"T want to feel....but we are not really too good at identifying how we WANT to feel. So it's important to spend some time imagining that, how it would FEEL to have the life you want.  This is how things are created in this world..  they start with a thought, that becomes a feeling that sets us on a path to manifest this feeling in actuality.

There is so much to this....and yet it is simple.  It's about taking our God given power back...our power to transform, to love, to heal.... and it starts internally.  It's about realizing our connection with the divine, and not believing the lie about the seperation between us and God/higher power.

Anyway, I'll hope even a shred of that makes sense.  I wish my mentor would write a book, but she does have a cd that is helpful.  

There are thousands of these messages out there, though. Everyone will find the help they need, if they want it.....it all starts with intention....everything starts that way...it's idea energy/loving intent.  All of it.  Whether we manifest it is our free will/choice.


there you go GFN....another long one....get us going, huh?
Peace to all....
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on May 19, 2005, 07:23:10 AM
Dear all,

Some great advice (which I've skimmed :oops: will come back to it tonight and read it properly :shock: )

That tricky little part of the brain is spelled amygdala, and can go haywire causing people all sorts of problems! Off to shower and then get my butt out there (see, I did take some of it in!)

(((all)))

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: Portia on May 19, 2005, 09:56:35 AM
GFN:

Quote
I know this sounds too simple but there is now actually scientific data to support such simple stuff as repetitive training of the mind and the benefits it has on our emotional state and well being.

AHA!  :idea: Hahahaha!  :D I’m really laughing. True!

My brain is such a dork. :D  This is how it goes: I love ‘science’ and ‘facts’ to back up what wise people already know. But I’m sceptical of science of course, because we don’t know what we don’t know and the more we know, the more we know we don’t know. But the science in your post GFN has me hooked. I love the science! (Science is kind of like kids playing isn’t it? Maybe it’s the media that makes science so serious and ‘factual’. I’m sure it isn’t the scientists.)

When I heard about NLP and the like being practised out in the business world, my heart dipped. I had a boss who wore an elastic band around his wrist who told me “every time I have a negative thought, I ping this band and it hurts, so I think it hurts to have the negative thought, so it stops the negative thoughts”: and I thought “nutter”. I thought, you’re no better than Pavlov’s dogs. You’re treating your brain like a dumb thing instead of thinking about why you have those thoughts in the first place. IMO he was a victim of the upsurge in NLP in business. It didn’t stop him driving too fast and losing his licence for a year, or losing his job, or …… offering me work when I was self-employed and expecting me to do it for free, because perhaps “our success could be your success” smarm, smarm, *spew*. Sub-text: because Portia you’re not worth actually being paid are you? :x  Ooops, got side-tracked there (hey, if I work for free, I get to decide that, not the client! 8) )

So, big resistance in me to these quick-fix-your-brain motivational cr*p-traps. No thinking required, just blind adherence to someone else’s agenda.

Okay, fair enough. BUT and this is the simplest, most obvious thing which I’ve missed: part of my cynicism is healthy (the questioning part), but I imagine a whole load is unhealthy kicking against the mind-control practised by my step-dad.

I’m so anti-mind control that I don’t even want to practise it on myself!!!!! Now that’s funny.  :D Remember GFN when I had that disagreement with you about the power of positive thinking? Way back. Well this is why. Fantastic. I love this. I love knowing why. Back to you guys. Just wanted to share my laughter and an  :idea: aha-ha :D

Going to reward myself with coffee and ...maybe just a wee choccy biscuit...
Title: Anything
Post by: Butterflying on May 19, 2005, 10:33:51 AM
What GFN and Longtire wrote reminds me of Nike's slogan:  JUST DO IT!

I think that statement has a lot of wisdom in it.  Do we have to know how an automobile works before we can safely operate it?  I don't think so.  Just turn on the ignition, appreciate the mechanical complexity of it and just drive it.  Who knew that a shoe slogan would apply to psychology as well.

IMO, sometimes we don't have to know all the details in order to benefit from the big picture.

Just my 2$ again.

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on May 19, 2005, 10:54:08 AM
Excellent point, Butterfly.  We can spend ALL kinds of time discussing the merits of something, but at some point, we have to get of the couch and just do it!  Thank you!!!
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 19, 2005, 04:17:34 PM
G'Day Ya'll:

Wow!  Mum!!  Your 1,2 3 method is another cool way to meditate, channel, visualize, clense, rejuvinate, etc.!! 8)   It reminds me of Tai Chi where there is a similar excercise where you stand with feet comfortably appart, take slow deep breaths, and imagine your spine extending down into the ground, allowing your hips to relax and just seeing your spine grow longer and longer until it touches the ground, while at the same time....allowing your spine to be imagined extending upward, through your head, and you lift your head upward and just see your spine growing and growing into the sky.  Then, very similar.....you imagine all your discomforts, pain, unhappiness, all negativity.....flowing down your spine, deep into the earth..where it disintegrates, and you imagine good things...fresh air, sunshine, clouds, warmth, good feelings, etc coming into your spine through your head.

There is actually a bit of science...there too because relaxing and stretching your spine comfortably, standing straight, relaxing muscles in your kneck, shoulders, back, hips .....is:

1.  Good physical stretching.....allows maximum blood flow to muscles.
2.  Good posture.....allows maximum blood flow/nerve impulses up spine.
3.  Good emotional release.....letting out the junk and bringing in the good...promotes good feelings.
4.  Good deep breathing......allows for maximum oxygenation of cells.

I believe in China this is done daily by all ages.  The Chinese amaze me because they have thousands of years of medicinal practice which our culture totally ignors and discounts....because there is no scientific proof that it works ( :(  :?  :shock:  :x ).   I think our scientists are really silly to discount such a massive amount of knowledge and experience (wisdom).

Once, a friend and I did a research project.  Our objective was to decide upon one country in the world, find out a bit about the history of the country, explain their medical practices, and locate/describe the most prevalent disease process (most common illness causing death), in that country.  Oh ya....we had to interview people from that country and use some of their data in our presentation.

We chose China because there was a chinese food restaurant near our houses and we figgered we could easily find people to interview at the restaurant ( :D ).  We did a really good job and got a wonderful mark in the course we were taking and guess what???

THERE IS NO PREVALENT DISEASE IN CHINA!!!! :shock:  :shock:  8)

For example, at that time, in Canada...the most prevalent disease causing death was Heart Disease.  IN the U.S, it was cancer.  Elsewhere...it was something else...but in China.......NOTHING!!!  No significant numbers of anything like that!!!! :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

(well....there wasn't at that time....but now that they have fast food and a number of other western-like influences taking root.....who knows????).

Anyway....thanks Mum because these types of excercises are definately positives....no matter which way they are looked at and might interest some of us to explore further and find what suits us best.

Thanks for correcting my spelling of Amygdala, 2cents.   :D  I am interested in learning more about it, it's functions, etc.  I found that program really interesting because......up until recently.....there has been no way to really...."scientifially"....measure emotions.

Butterfly...you make an excellent point about "Just Do It!".  Really......it is  in the doing that we will learn the real value of these things.   We can read and try to understand and explore and all of that is good...but it is actually doing it.....that will prove the most to us and make things the clearest.

So why not anyway???  What's to lose??  10, 20, 30 minutes per day???
Big deal.  I bet most of us waste more than that doing far less productive stuff (maybe just I do? :oops:  :oops:).

And Hey again Mum:   Actually.....it can be done....on the couch!!!  So we don't even have to get off of it, if we don't want to!!! :D  :D  :D

At the very least....it's a break from stress.

Hey P!  Glad you love the science!!  Glad you've thought about it a little differently and found your AHA!!!  I've heard of that elastic band around the wrist stuff too (negative reinforcement).  I know someone who used to help kick their heroine addiction!  It worked!! (But for your jerk bosss.....there probably isn't an elastic big enough to snap any sence into him!!!  Sorry he did that to you P. :(  :( ).

Quote
I’m so anti-mind control that I don’t even want to practise it on myself!!!!!


Ya.....but I know you P....you can always change your mind about that!!!
(Especially after a big.....AHA...like that one!!! 8)  8) ).
For me it logic.  It's got to make logical sense for me to accept it.  If it does not, I have very little interest.  Science...shmience..really.  Some is...as you say....not really proven/measurable.  The most logical thing that makes the most sense to me is what Anna said about repetition.

Talking to anyone/everyone:

Think of how many times your abuser put you down?  Verbally, non-verbally!!!  How many times?  What happened after awhile?  Some of that really stuck, didn't it?  The nasty things that have been said/done to you......how much of that......hurt.....left wounds.....is open to button pushing???

Think of someone saying good things, kind things, logical things, affirmative things to you....over and over and over......Verbally and non-verbally???  Many, many, many times.  What will happen??  Some of that will really stick too, don't you think?  The good things that are said/imagined by you will feel.....good....help to heal your wounds.....remove those pesky buttons.

It just doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the benefits of it.  For me....it just makes logical sense that to overcome the mean voices in our heads, we have to replace them with kind voices, loving voices, soothing voices and voices that encourage us to move forward, go for our dreams, accomplish goals, solve problems.  Those nasty voices don't have a chance.....after awhile.  They just fade away and can't be heard anymore.

Why?

Because we no longer believe them.

PS: Portia:   Your choccy biscuit sounds yummy, with a coffee!!   Enjoy!! :D  :D

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Butterflying on May 19, 2005, 08:59:43 PM
GFN Wrote:
Quote
We chose China because there was a chinese food restaurant near our houses and we figgered we could easily find people to interview at the restaurant (  ). We did a really good job and got a wonderful mark in the course we were taking and guess what???


Too bad, you didn't know me then, cuz you could have used me as one of your interviewees.  And I would be glad to pitch in.  Even though I grew up in the states I'm exposed to some chinese remedies for ailments.  My mom is big on it.  Sometimes she's goes down to Chinatown just to buy some chinese herbal medicine.  Personally, I think you more about China than I do though. :wink:  Just curious, what class were you taking?

I'm like you in that I need things to be logical before it will stick in my mind.  If the pieces of the puzzle don't fit perfectly together, then I'm reluctant to accept or believe in it.  I like what you said about replacing unproductive thinking with productive thinking.  From a scientific standpoint, everything takes up space.  Something must always occupy the space of our thinking.  Which makes perfect sense and very logical.  According to the law of nature, something must always occupy the space left void by the removal of negative thinking.  Why not replace it with positive thinking??  Thanks for the insight, GFN. :)

Mum, thanks for the compliment :D

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: Me again on May 19, 2005, 09:19:54 PM
If y'all don't mind, I will take a turn around the bend with another topic.  Or maybe it's an old topic, just revisiting it.  

For those who are soy beans lovers, this recipe may be of interest to you.  When I tasted it for myself I was luving it, just cuz i like to eat beans of all sorts.  Anyway, this recipe can be eaten as a snack.  The concept is the same as roasted peanuts, except that they are roasted soy beans.  

What you do is submerge a package of dried soy beans in water for 2hrs.  Next boil them in a pan full of water till the soy beans are soft but still firm.  Now drain the cooked soy beans in a colander.  After they have been fully drained, thoroughly marinade the beans with a little bit salt, black pepper, and a sprinkle of olive oil (sugar can be added if you prefer).  The oil will make the salt and pepper adhere to the beans.  Now they are ready to be roasted in a convection oven for about 15-20min.  The timing varies depending on how roasted you want them to be.  You can always add more salt or pepper base on your taste preference.

Walla!  You've got yourself a healthy and yummy snack.  Warning:  they can become irresistible after you've tasted a few. :lol:  Just my opinion.  Hope they'll turn out yummy.

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on May 19, 2005, 10:50:51 PM
Butterfly,
I like the sound of that recipe and I know the soy beans are good for you.  How long do you let them marinate in the salt, pepper and olive oil?  How much olive oil are we talking about?  I assume you do not need a convection oven and can use a regular oven, but do you have a temperature?

Sorry if I sound picky, but I want to do it right. :)

Thanks for sharing.  I think we should have a whole thread devoted to favorite recipes.  Maybe I'll work on that.

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 20, 2005, 09:23:53 AM
Hi Everyone:

Hey Butterfly!  Cool!  8)  I'm almost itching to interview you!! Did your mother ever treat any of your childhood illnesses with her herbal mixes?

The thing is....I really believe there is a whole world of information that our medical system is ignoring, although.....maybe that is changing a little and they are starting to pay attention.  I hope so.  I think there will be great advances made in treatment if they ever put their heads together!

The course was part of a community certificate, (can't even remember the name of it now).  We decided it would take us forever to get the certificate, which was brand new, and not recognozed by employers, so we only took that one course and that was it.  It was fun though and I will always remember that "no prevalent disease" part because it speaks volumes, I think!!

Love the soy bean recipe! :D   Sounds lovely.  Hopefully you'll fill us in on the details Brigid asked about (wouldn't want to burn them .. :shock: ...one of my pass times in the kitchen!! :oops:  :oops: ).

One thing more........re something I said that has been bugging me since I said it........

I said that medications cover up symptoms and do not cure.

That has been really bothering me  :oops:  :oops: and I do appologize for not being clearer and more complete, and sounding so negative :( .

Ofcourse.....medications can be a great help to people.  They can indeed change one's entire outlook on life and help people to feel very much better about so much.  I do not, in any way, mean to say that medications have no value, are not useful or any such thing.  They can be very helpful.

But for me...personally....I have fought depression by trying to look for the cause and dealing with it.   For me.....medications would be a short term solution...hopefully.

But for some conditions and for some people.....medications are the answer that truly make the symptoms disappear, keep some chemical processes in the brain in synch, or control conditions that would otherwise be uncontrollable.

So please forgive me for making this statement that applies to me and my personal desire/beliefs/only.  I can say it because   I don't have a condition that requires medication.  The chemical processes in my brain are being flushed regularly with lot's of water and seem ok for now.  I do, however, think a brain transplant might be a nice change, when they perfect that procedure!!  (heehee :D ).

I just don't want  to insult anyone who is taking medication, who believes in using meds to help their situations, etc.  What I do want to do is to encourage even those people...that by doing some serious "mind control", as Portia has named it .....it will also help.  Training your mind to think positive stuff will help too (in addition to the meds).

Telling ourselves good things and encouraging good thoughts won't hurt.
As Butterfly has put it plainly....replacing unproductive thinking with productive thinking.....taking up the space with good thoughts rather than not good ones...... seems like a logical and sensible thing to do...especially when we are really down in the dumps.

I'm away for the week end .....leaving tonight.....

Hope you will all have a wonderful week end.

(((((((((((((((all)))))))))))))))

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Portia on May 20, 2005, 09:28:06 AM
have a great weekend GFN, whatever you do :D
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 20, 2005, 01:14:29 PM
This morning was my son's graduation from preschool.  It was a bittersweet moment.  Between my son and daughter I have been driving them to that preschool for five years now.  

Also, the lovely woman who ran the Christian Preschool all these years is leaving and moving down South.  Five years ago I walked into her classroom with my 2 yo and my infant son and she welcomed us with open arms during a very difficult time.  Today, I gave her a great big old hug along with some chocolates and a gift card as a thank you and as a good bye gift.  I got very choked up as she is going through a very difficult time right now.  I wish I could do more for her in her time of need.

She really touched the lives of my children and they love her dearly.  We were blessed to be able to share these tender years with such a sweetheart.  

A chapter ended today.  Mixed feelings about this one.  My little boy will be going up to the big leagues now....Kindergarten!

I hope everyone is having a fantastic day.  Embrace life....it really does speed by.

Mia
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on May 20, 2005, 05:13:13 PM
Oh Mia,
I remember when my youngest "graduated" from pre-school.  My children were blessed to have some wonderful teachers there and I will forever be grateful to the head teacher for seeing my son's ADHD, so we caught it early and he was able to excel all the way through school and is now pre-med in college.

If you think the time until now went by quickly, just wait until they get to high school. :shock:  :shock:  Those four years just fly by, and junior and senior years are so consumed by college preparation, applications, testing, waiting for results, etc., etc., that its over in the blink of an eye.

Treasure every moment and get in all the snuggling you can while they will still let you.  As I have said before, my children are wonderful and I still get hugs and kisses and I love you's on a daily basis, but I really miss cuddling with them and smelling their hair and kissing those soft cheeks.  OK, I have to quit now before I start sobbing.   :cry:

Thanks for the memory.  Very nice of you to remember that special teacher.  We can never do enough of that IMO.

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Butterflying on May 20, 2005, 09:51:41 PM
Brigid and GFN,

Regarding the recipe...after you've marinade the soy beans evenly, you can roast them right away or let them sit for 5min.   I didn't premeasure the amount of olive oil to be added, but my estimation is 2 tablespoons.  That all depends on how much beans you're using.  The best way to tell is, if the oil lightly and completely coated the beans, then you added the correct amount.  Make sure you don't add so much oil that it dripping off the beans.  Be sure to miranade the beans with oil first before you add the salt and pepper.  The best way to know whether you've added enough salt and pepper is to do a taste test.   You can always add more, but you cannot take away. Spread the marinaded beans fairly evenly across a shallow baking pan.  Brigid, what you said is correct...you can choose to use a regular oven instead of a convection oven.  I think the oven should be 400 degrees.  That's a safe temp.  The oven doesn't need to be preheated.  Hope this helps.

Brigid, I think devoting a thread just to food is a great idea. :D   I'm always interested to learn about new recipes.

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 25, 2005, 07:58:21 PM
Thanks Butterfly!!

Gonna try those!!  They sound delicious!!

My pc is broke and so I'm away for who knows how long?? :(

Could be quick?  Could not?

Keeping you all in my thoughts and prayers and hoping each day of your lives get better and better!!

(((((((((((((all)))))))))))

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Portia on May 26, 2005, 05:08:49 AM
GFN here's hoping your life gets better every day too and in particular that your sick PC :(  gets better real quick. Or maybe not? More time out in the Spring might be what you want...what a good idea, time to feed the birds :D bye for now P
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 28, 2005, 09:26:27 AM
Hello all:

Well the pc problem was a phone line problem, which is finally fixed (yay!!).   It worked out nicely because the phone company fixed the problem (their equipment was the cause) and that saved me some money, since I didn't have to take my pc out and get it repaired.

Thanks Portia for your good wishes.  I think I do want more time out to enjoy the Spring.  I have lot's of planting left to do.  Today is a lovely day for that so I think I will get to it real soon.

Do you have a garden?  Flowers or veggies?  What are your favorites?

I have mostly flower gardens.  Nine of them.  Going on ten this year.  I grow cosmos, sweet peas, sun flowers, holly hocks, moon flowers, morning glories, phlox, black eyed susans, echinachea, lemon balm, lavender, peonies, pansies, shasta daisies, dailias, columbine, forget me nots, johnny jump ups, violets, mums, marigolds, fox glove, snap dragons, poppies, flowering cabbage, hostas, begonias, clematis, roses, cleome, geraniums, nasturtiums, golden glows, maltese cross, hydrangea, pontinella, snowball bushes, lilacs, (I know I've missed a bunch) etc,etc and tulips, daffidils, hyacinth, in the spring plus various ground covers in my rock garden and a weird but gorgeous flowering cactus that I have no idea what it's called but it's really lovely.  The only edibles I grow are raspberries and sweet cherry tomatoes.  I don't like weeding so I jam everything in as close as possible to eachother and then I only have to do a real good weeding once now and maybe again part way through the summer.   I think my favorites are the pansies, although it is really hard to choose.

Anyone else have a garden?  What are your favorites?
Do you start your own seeds?  I do.  It's so cool to watch them springing up!  And better when a perennial actually lives through a winter and goes on to get larger and larger, year after year....all from one little seed.  What a wonder eh?

Hope you are all enjoying a nice spring day!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on May 28, 2005, 10:47:17 AM
Hi GFN,
So nice to see you back up and posting.   :D  Happy to hear that the phone company had to pay for it rather than you.

I'm heading to the garden store to get some flowers and herbs for my pots today.  It is generally too risky to plant them before now around here or there is a chance of losing them to a late frost.  Hopefully, we are past that now.  Most of what I have in my garden are perennials.  I moved in here last July so everything was already up and blooming by then.  I'm still figuring out what I have around here and saw the early spring blooms for the first time.  At my last house, I was out in the country with 5+ acres of property and had planted it all myself.  Now I'm on a city lot with everything already established and not much space to add things.  

I tend not to start plants from seed since I don't have a greenhouse and I'd be waiting half the summer for them to come up and bloom.  I'm not sure what I'm going to buy this year.  I always forget from one year to the next what did well and what didn't.  I always mean to take pictures, but never get around to it.  I'll let you know what I end up with.

Happy gardening and have a great weekend.

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: It's me on May 28, 2005, 11:18:31 PM
GFN Wrote:
 
Quote
I'm almost itching to interview you!! Did your mother ever treat any of your childhood illnesses with her herbal mixes?


I haven't gotten 'round to answering your question til now.  Been away for a few days.  Hey, if anyone here is from Chicago...I just have to say, that is one terrific place to live, IMO.  Anyway, as far as I know, my mother didn't treat my childhood illnesses with herbal mixes.  But she did use some peculiar healing treatments to alleviate some my childhood illnesses.  I think they were pretty effective, cuz I'm here today to talk about it.LOL  Alot of the natural remedies she uses are not herbal per se, rather they are a concoction of dried plant roots and tree barks with medicinal values.  From my experience, they work pretty darn well.  A few months ago, I was coming done with the flu, after I drank a tea mixture of the chinese medicine, my flu symptoms were eliminated the following morning.  Pretty amazing stuff, I think.  I don't know how they made the medicine, but it worked like a charm for me.

I don't mean to discredit western medicine, but I feel a lot of it has a lot of extra chemicals added to them that may in fact do harm to the body.  For example, taking Tylenol for an extended period of time can cause liver damage.  This is something the pharmaceutical company doesn't want the public to know.  If it's not the liver, i know it's one of the major vital organs.  I'm pretty sure it's the liver though.  Then again, some herbal medicine can also cause harm to the body if not taken properly.  Of course, there are many western medicine that do wonders for many ppl.

GFN, I wonder what you learned about China from your research project.  It would be interesting to know.  

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on May 31, 2005, 09:24:58 AM
Hi all:

Hello Brigid:

Wow!  Your garden sounds like the one I left behind.  Mostly perenials.  Not a whole lot of work because they just come up, year after year and need a little attention and that stinking weeding!  You can just enjoy them after that!  That's so lovely.  I haven't had much luck with herbs.  I tend to drown them.

It's kind of funny.  You and I did the opposite switch.

I do miss that old garden I had in the city.  I moved to the country not too long ago.  This ground is very much gravel and clay here.  There wasn't a flower in sight.  It was quite desolate (but it has the potential to be a beautiful place).  It takes lots of top soil, compost, manure and then a good thick topping of wood chips to build each garden.

I'm building what I call:  My dream garden.

Ever go to one of those big garden shows?  The really huge ones where they literally transform giant show rooms into wonder gardens?  I went to one year before last and was mesmerized.  There were so many gorgeous ideas there.  I have them all stacked in files in my head.  And this great desire to build a lovely "dream garden" of my own.

It will take years but it is already starting to show a little.  This year I planted a fairly large lilac tree, 3 smoke bushes, a smaller lilac and I'm wanting a weeping willow.  The area is huge, about 1/2 an acre, for this particular garden, so there is lot's of room.  My H put a giant steel frame for a swing and I planted clematis, and other anuals, on either end of it.  He also keeps bringing home big rocks, one of which is massive (in my book....about 5 feet long by 4 feet high), and pink, which are being placed at strategic points in the area.  There is a central garden, that I built last year and planted foxglove, and other perenials, which I grew from seed and almost all of them survived!!  It will look wonderful when they finally bloom.  I can hardly wait!  Then there's a 6 foot iron daisy my H made and stuck in the ground by one of the rocks (it's the one flower I don't have to water and it looks so cute "growing" among the bushes.   Also, there is a pile of sand waiting for me to transform into a mosaic floor with an eventual capola and tea table.  Then there's the future water garden in the works.  We've almost got all the rocks but we still need to do some work on the electrical stuff before we build it.  It may take me forever but I'm enjoying the work and each little bit that gets done adds something nice.

Butterfly:

Now that's what I mean about years of knowledge our system ignors.  Who here would consider using roots and bark to treat anything?  What a waste of helpful information, if you ask me.  Did you ever ask your mother which roots and bark those were?

To be honest, I don't really remember much about what we learned about China, (that course was many years ago), other than the lack of prevelent disease and a bit about communism and their rather simple living conditions.  Have you ever visited there?  Would you like to?  I bet you're curious?  I would be, I think.  I love the bright colours of the markets and buildings I've seen pictures of in China.  Also the lovely water colour paintings and the magnificent carvings.  It would be an enriching experience to visit there I think.

Well.......enjoy your days all!   I have much planting to do today and then out and about.  Puppy and I started a new round of doggie school last night.  Gotta fit some training in there somewhere today too!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: A Guest on May 31, 2005, 10:35:52 AM
GFN,

Wow!  I think your dream garden will turn out magnificent. 8)   I just absolute luv lilacs and weeping willow trees.  I imagine your garden to be quite lovely.  Wouldn't it be cool if you could post a picture of your garden on this board :wink: I would be tickled to see a picture of it :D

I've never visited China before, but would love to one day.  Unfortunately, my mother doesn't know the names of the roots and tree barks in English.  Language barrier is a problem, I'm afraid.  However, she can identify a few plants and tree with medicinal values if she was to spot them.  I, on the other hand, have no clue in the matter.

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 01, 2005, 09:43:19 AM
Hi again Butterfly:

Ya my dream garden will likely be very nice but it will take many years to get there.  It's something to work toward and improve each year.  When we moved here there was nothing but a field of weeds and uneven ground there.  Now, there is a perimeter of trees, bushes and big rocks about 2/3 way round, an entrance and exit and a small central garden.  It's coming along.  Yesterday I bought 2 more bushes ...weigelia and beauty bush...both with lovely pinky to rosey coloured flowers in spring.  Some day they'll be fat and loaded with bloom!  I would like also a flowering tree but they're sooo expensive.  Maybe I'll find one on sale sometime?

Do you have a garden Butterfly?

Too bad about the language barrier between your mom and you.  I bet she has a wealth of information to share.  Maybe she could write some things down in Chinese and it could be interpreted later somehow?

I am still reading "Controlling People" by Patricia Evans and she mentions that China is one of the countries where child slave labour still exists.   That is so sad to know.  If you ever visit China I would love to hear about your experience.   Here's hoping you get that chance some day!!

Hope your today is peaceful alll!!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Butterfly guesting on June 01, 2005, 10:54:57 PM
I do have a virtual dream garden, but not a real one yet.  GFN, I think not only will your garden look charming, but it will smell lovely too :D

Did you know that the only man-made structure an astronaut in outer space can see on earth is the Great Wall Of China?  Pretty cool, huh?

I didn't know about the child labor in China.  How very sad that child labor still exist even in the 21st century.  I think India also allows child labor, as well as many poverty-stricken countries.  How very, very sad for the children :cry:  :x  :x

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: A guest on June 03, 2005, 05:40:30 PM
What do you think of this statement:

"You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means he uses to frighten you."  Eric Hoffer

 :roll:  :roll:  :roll:
Title: Anything
Post by: Portia on June 04, 2005, 12:58:57 PM
"You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means he uses to frighten you."

I think it’s a reasonable idea.

So when someone rages and accuses you of, for example: “You’re always so selfish!” you can sure that they are scared stiff of being thought selfish, or being accused of it.

On the other hand, it’s best simply not to have enemies? One way I guess is not to be frightened of anyone. Just a lifetime’s work there then! :?
Title: Anything
Post by: mudpuppy on June 04, 2005, 01:24:47 PM
Hi Portia,

Quote
On the other hand, it’s best simply not to have enemies? One way I guess is not to be frightened of anyone.


Uhhh, I can guarantee if you aren't frightened of anyone you will have plenty of enemies. The only person with zero enemies is someone with he spine of a squid.

Eric Hoffer by the way was a longshoreman turned philosopher.
He wrote the book "The True Believer".  Indispensible for understanding fanatics of any stripe. A great read.

mudpup
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on June 04, 2005, 04:40:52 PM
Hey Portia,

Someone spent 4 yrs of her life telling just that: that I was selfish. this person had never heard of a mirror. Knowing that this person was projecting did very little to help stop the damage. It did help me to get away. Take care,

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: Guesting on June 05, 2005, 08:49:04 PM
Anger is multiple-sided topic it seems.  I guess it all depends on how you perceive anger.  Do you agree or disagree with this statement?  Just curious on what others view anger.

"The world needs anger.  The world often continues to allow evil because it isn't angry enough."  Bede Jarrett

******************
Hope everyone here has a nice week  8)
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on June 05, 2005, 11:58:11 PM
Not sure about the statement in it's entirety.  However, anger is essential.  It, and other strong emotions, are there because of some type of pain.  It's there to tell us something, make us take notice.
It isn't meant to be habitual, however.  It becomes habitual when we won't look at it, or run from it, drink or drug it away, etc. Then when we wake up from our hangover, or whatever....there it is again.  Pain/anger.

The only way to deal with it is to learn what it is saying.  Throw ourselves at it and explore what it's all about.....learn from it and let it go....move through. NOT letting it go is what gets us stuck....we can't shake it, mostly because we are not sure how.  We know how to avoid, but not a lot about moving through it.

Evil may indeed be fostered by ignoring/avoiding anger.  Not sure, but not dealing with something isn't always a way to eradicate it.  Then again, letting it go after learning from it and then NOT cultivating it by letting it "get to us"....it may die an uneventful death.  All depends.
Title: Anything
Post by: Portia on June 06, 2005, 11:59:06 AM
Isn’t this a great thread? Thanks GFN for Anything :D . I need a breath after that dream I posted. It's a bit close to the bone. Weird. Need to come over here and just express some surface opinions, phew :)

Hiya Mud, thanks for a diversion :D
Quote
I can guarantee if you aren't frightened of anyone you will have plenty of enemies. The only person with zero enemies is someone with he spine of a squid.

Umm!  :? What if I’m not frightened of someone but they don’t like me – they consider that I’m their enemy? (But I don’t consider them my enemy). I honestly don’t think I have enemies as such (personal enemies). I dislike and abhor many things that people do – but my enemies? Hmmmm perhaps if I put my action where my thoughts are – went on marches, worked to stop child trafficking … would I have enemies i.e. those people I was trying to stop doing what they were doing? Okay, even if they thought that, would they be my enemies?

As you can maybe tell, this is a subject I’ve been giving some thought to of late. I really don’t think I have enemies and have trouble understanding the idea. I just don’t hate anyone enough. To be honest, I’ve always felt like this, even at school. I wondered where kids got that hate energy from, girls being vicious to each other, boys fighting etc. I was generally confused and bewildered, which makes it difficult to dislike anyone enough to think of them as enemy. Just a different take I guess.

Quote
"The world needs anger. The world often continues to allow evil because it isn't angry enough." Bede Jarrett

I think the world as it is needs anger. I’m angry about that Spanish paedophile ring that was busted last month. That sounded as sick as it gets. Yeah, I’m angry about that. I’m angry especially as it happened in Spain, which I consider (sweeping generalisation coming up :roll: ) ‘better than’ Britain in their attitude to kids, people and families. Because it threatens my view of Spain! But being angry wouldn’t have stopped what happened there.

Why were 20+ year old men doing what they were doing? I don’t know. I don’t know why. I could hazard a guess. But being angry with them (or with society) won’t solve the problem. Understanding why people do these things might be a step nearer to stopping it. If anger leads to better understanding, I’m for anger, but not if it leads to lynchings and control by fear. The bad behaviour then goes further underground I think.
Title: Anything
Post by: mudpuppy on June 06, 2005, 12:53:39 PM
Hi Portia,

Well, I'm not sure I get your concept of an enemy completely.
You don't have to hate someone else to have an enemy, they just have to hate you, or want something you have.

A black person doesn't need to hate white people to have the KKK as his enemy. I can think of several hundred other cases of people with enemies through the accident of birth to a particular country, race or ethnicity.
I suppose the supreme example would be Christ, who loved everyone, and yet he had sufficient enemies to nail Him to a cross.

mudpup
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2005, 01:05:41 PM
Hi Mud, I get you. I guess it's language again. I think if I say:

I am your enemy (no I don't mean you and me :shock: , this is an example :D ) because you hate me

but you are not my enemy - because I don't hate you.

does that make sense? I can have people who might hate me, but it doesn't mean I hate them. Hmmm I see it as reciprocal. What if we had a war and only one side came - kind of thing. I see what you mean though. anyway, better go, bye for now, portia
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2005, 04:28:16 PM
Hi everyone:

Been away from here for a little while and ......wellllll.....loooky there!!! (as good old Jed Clampet would say). :D

Hey Butterfly:

Quote
Did you know that the only man-made structure an astronaut in outer space can see on earth is the Great Wall Of China? Pretty cool, huh?


No I didn't know that and that is very cool!  Learn something every day!!  Thanks!! :D

Quote
I didn't know about the child labor in China. How very sad that child labor still exist even in the 21st century. I think India also allows child labor, as well as many poverty-stricken countries. How very, very sad for the children


Horribly sad!  Yes India and a few other countries too (they didn't even compute because like you, I didn't think stuff like that was still going on.  I got China because I'd been speaking with you about it and it stuck and you reminded me of India).  Isn't that so awful?  Children as small as 3 and 4 working 12 to 16 hours in these stinking factories, for virtually nothing.

AND EVERYTHING WE BUY IS......MADE IN CHINA!!!! :evil:
I doubt anything. :oops:  :(  :(  :(  :(
     
Quote
What do you think of this statement:

"You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means he uses to frighten you." Eric Hoffer



Well Guest, Guesting........it is interesting and it does make sense, imo.  I definately have enemies and..... yep......it works! :evil:

I'm with P in that I don't hate people and certainly I don't hate my "enemies" but I bet they are close to hating, if not drowning in hate toward me.  Mostly, I feel sorry for them.  They're missing a lot of life, wasting their energy like that. :roll:  Sometimes I think I make them madder by not hating. :D

Quote
So when someone rages and accuses you of, for example: “You’re always so selfish!” you can sure that they are scared stiff of being thought selfish, or being accused of it.


Could be P, or.....worse.....afraid you will notice how selfish they are! :shock:

 
Quote
One way I guess is not to be frightened of anyone.


It's tough for some of us but you're right, I bet.  When I think about it, when someone says something nasty.....for a split second.....I might wonder if they're right!! :oops:  :oops: (and sometimes they are but let's skip those times...heehee).  So they induce me with fear, for a short time.  Usually, though, I realize that what they're saying is just nasty and doesn't apply to me.  Then, the fear disintegrates and I'm thinking of how to respond.  I do tend to wonder what people are afraid of first and try to ease their fears, if possible.  Unfortunately for my enemies, their fears are so far from reality that they seem to be uneasable, at least by me.

If we could just skip being afraid, in the first place, we'd save time and save ourselves some discomfort.  Easy to talk about in theory but not so easy when in shock and confusion....after hearing a nasty comment, directed at us, at least in my case this is true.
 
Quote
The only person with zero enemies is someone with he spine of a squid.


Mud, you have the mind of a marine biologist!!  You really make me giggle!!! :D  :D  :D

Quote
Eric Hoffer by the way was a longshoreman turned philosopher.
He wrote the book "The True Believer". Indispensible for understanding fanatics of any stripe. A great read.


Got it writ down and willa be areadin' it some where, some time. :D
 
Quote
Someone spent 4 yrs of her life telling just that: that I was selfish.
2cents


 :(  :(  :( Sorry you took these words to heart, 2cents.  They were untrue, ignorant, mean, rotten, downright wrong words!!  I'm glad you got away!
(((((2cents)))))
 
Quote
"The world needs anger. The world often continues to allow evil because it isn't angry enough." Bede Jarrett


Guesting:  Anger is a weird emotion isn't it?  It can protect us, I think, in dangerous situations.  I have used it, once or twice, to save my life (when some idiots tried to rob me/attack me/poor suckers!!  heehee :D -- scared 'em half to death....no kidding!!).

The Inhuit do not allow the expression of anger (or maybe it should be said....their older gerations did not.....I don't know if this is still the same now adays).  Any person who became angry enough to strike out/yell etc.... was banished from the clan.....period.  Sent out into the snow to survive or die on their own (which was a death sentence because it's pretty tough to survive up there in the really, really, great white north, without other humans assistance).

This fact has always intreged me.  Not allowed to show anger?  They considered it a deadly emotion (imagine a huge brawl breaking out in one of those tiny igloos, with infants and elderly alike being bashed around, and the very walls of the place collapsing...and everyone afterward....freezing and bloody and bruised and having to work together to rebuild the place, while still right ticked with eachother.....    It's not that hard to figger out why they thought of the emotion as deadly, I think.

But in our world now?  Anger?  Personally, I think the Inhuit had it right.  

Our anger doesn't solve a whole lot and probably makes more trouble than productive solutions.   That's what I think.  

Quote
It isn't meant to be habitual, however.


Ya Mum!  Maybe that's what I'm trying to say.  It seems a habit to become mad first and ask questions later, for many.  

Quote
The only way to deal with it is to learn what it is saying.


I agree.  And maybe it doesn't always have to be expressed the minute it starts to brew?  Maybe, we all would do well to repress it, a little, like the Inhuit, and figger out something more useful to do to solve problems?  

Quote
Isn’t this a great thread? Thanks GFN for Anything  . I need a breath after that dream I posted. It's a bit close to the bone. Weird. Need to come over here and just express some surface opinions, phew


Thank P.  I love this thread!  I'll have to zip over and read about your dream!!  Bones an' all!! :D  

Quote
To be honest, I’ve always felt like this, even at school. I wondered where kids got that hate energy from, girls being vicious to each other, boys fighting etc. I was generally confused and bewildered, which makes it difficult to dislike anyone enough to think of them as enemy.


Me too.  And it was always about stupid stuff.  I never did get it.  I think I was a bit of a loner sometimes.  If  I spotted the nasty beginnings, I tended to duck behind a book.  Never could stand all that conflict over nothing, really.  The worst......were those high school brawls!!

"So and so's school is coming over next Wednesday to brawl, are you gonna come watch???"  some kid would ask me.

"Nope", I'd answer, "I'm going to be busy sticking pins underneath my toenails next Wednesday, maybe another time!" :D

I wasn't the most popular kid in school. :oops:

 
Quote
Understanding why people do these things might be a step nearer to stopping it
.

I agree with you P.   Good idea! 8)

Quote
I suppose the supreme example would be Christ, who loved everyone, and yet he had sufficient enemies to nail Him to a cross.


Ya Muddy.  Great example there with that one!!  And getting angry wouldn't have stopped it either, would it?

Have a great eve all!!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2005, 04:31:41 PM
Maybe I should finish this sentence?

I doubt anything.    :oops:  :(  :(  :(  :(  :(  :(  will likely change there soon.

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2005, 04:52:52 PM
Hey GFN,

Quote
Sometimes I think I make them madder by not hating.


One of the proverbs, can't remember which off the top of my head, says,

"If your enemy thirsts give him a drink of water, for in so doing you pour hot coals on his head."
And it goes on to admonish us not to rejoice in our enemies suffering lest it come to us.
So its not telling us to give them a drink to harm them, only that they will be shamed by having good returned for their evil.
So I guess you are making them madder by not hating, just like you're supposed to. :wink:
Take care.

mud
Title: Anything
Post by: Butterfly guesting on June 06, 2005, 07:11:11 PM
GFN,

Something hadn't felt the same on this board for some strange reason :?   Ah, because you weren't around for a little while :D   Anyway, glad you're back.  It's easy to know whether you are the one posting without having to see your ID at the bottom... just by the length of the post. heeheehaha It's all good, though :wink:

Quote
Isn't that so awful? Children as small as 3 and 4 working 12 to 16 hours in these stinking factories, for virtually nothing.


Hmmm, isn't this like the ultimate form of voicelessness?  Or close to it?  Yeah, that is so very awful.  We, in developed countries, think that is such a cruel thing to do to children.  Perhaps, they and even the children themselves think it is a normal way to live, and they accept it as such. So to them it is not a crime against humanity.   Just a thought.  But, still, I think child labor is still a crime against children in anyway you look at it, b/c the children have no say in the matter :x

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: 2BcontinuedMAYBE on June 07, 2005, 05:12:27 PM
dreams and such

someone horribly injured in a bad freeway accident

much traffic

many gather

doctors , ministers,  
many knowledgeable people

but
oddly
just as the shock was wearing off
and one could see
a horrific scream of pain building
xx fell silent and very still
tho yet consciousness
and would not speak

later in the hospital he/she :) it
went into a coma

whilst in the coma
hit.. he she it
had teachings from the spirit

now bout the going still and silent...
a sense that
c
c
cc
c
c
c
c
c
cc
c
c
c
c
c
c
cc
c
c
cc
c

cc
much of the proferred help
in the past
had been thru the filter of a narcisstic parent
and thus
a sceptimism about true hope and optimism
coming from the experts
who the parent oddly sought
to relieve the turmoil of the child
but no one made bold to look
how much of it was the ever so caring mom
who always did her best
in her own eyes

now as for the visions in the dream
in the coma that taught such matters
that despite ......
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 07, 2005, 06:15:19 PM
Hi there:

Are you Joe?

I am trying very hard to understand your post but I just don't get it.

Maybe I'm dense?

Is this a dream that you really had?

Are you looking for some kind of interpretation?

It sounds like a scary dream.  How did you feel during it?

Did the dream teach you something?

If it wasn't your dream then please explain?


I absolutely don't get what all the "c"'s are about.  What the heck are they about???



After the "c"'s......it sounds like your parents put you in some kind of treatment?  Were you institutionalized?

Are you very angry with your mother?

Sorry about all the questions.  Answer if you feel like it.  If not, that's ok.
I just don't understand very much of what you wrote.

((((Joe))))

GFN

PS:  Thanks Butterfly for you kind words.  Yep.  I'm trying not to compete with Longtire and I think I'm losing at trying.  I'm glad you're here Butterfly.  I agree with you 100% about child labour:

Quote
isn't this like the ultimate form of voicelessness?


Isn't it though! :(   We're very lucky to live where such things are not the norm.  Take care B.  Hope all is well with you.
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 07, 2005, 06:22:13 PM
PPS:

Quote
So I guess you are making them madder by not hating, just like you're supposed to.


Thanks Mud for saying all that.  I don't know if I'm doing what I'm supposed to do, but I am doing what feels right.  For a change.  Instead of always......always......doing what's expected/like giving in/taking the blame for stuff that isn't mine and being a rubberized punching bag.  Nope.  None a that anymore for those who never give back.

Shocked the shorts right off 'em all!!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Jun 07, 2005 6:15 pm on June 07, 2005, 06:29:24 PM
WELL NOW THE POST OF
 Jun 07, 2005 6:15 pm
AND THE ONE THAT FOLLOWS
WHERE ONE WAS WONDERING WHAT WAS GOIN ON
..EQUALLY OR MORE WHAT GUEST IS SPEAKING ABOUT
...ONE WONDERS WHAT IS GOING ON
WHAT IS BEING REFERRED TO
AN EVEN MORE INSIDER THING
PERHAPS :) OH MY

Guest
 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:15 pm    Post subject
 GFN
PS: Thanks Butterfly for you kind words. Yep. I'm trying not to compete with Longtire and I think I'm losing at trying. I'm glad you're here Butterfly. I agree with you 100% about child labour:
Quote:
isn't this like the ultimate form of voicelessness?
Isn't it though!  We're very lucky to live where such things are not the norm. Take care B. Hope all is well with you.
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 07, 2005, 06:50:42 PM
HI again Joe?

Nope. NO insider thing.  Just read back a little and you will see that Butterfly and I were talking about child labour and how awful it is and that she said some kind words to me when I posted recently.

Also, I think before that, Mudpuppy had encouraged me after I said that my abusers might be even madder at me because I don't hate them.

Hope that answers your questions.
There is no insider stuff here that I know of.  Some references may be from previous posts and if you do not read back, you may find it difficult to understand what is being talked about.  That's ok.  But it's no conspiracy of any sort.

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: ahh ok on June 07, 2005, 06:54:29 PM
a multiple reply
i should keep that in mind :)
or hmmm an indicator
given that such
be a multiple replay to other stuff in the thread :)
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 07, 2005, 07:02:08 PM
Are you Joe?

It's ok.  Easy enough mistake for anyone really.  I suppose it would have been clearer had I written:

Butterfly, re you previous post.  But I don't see a lot of that here.  People just refer back to other posts at leisure.  So far, it hasn't been a problem, as far as I know.

And yes, people do do multiple posts....so it's important to read carefully.  One of my problems sometimes.  I don't always read carefully enough.

We are all learning.

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on June 08, 2005, 05:27:54 AM
Hi all,

GFN - good to see you back! I like your posts cause of all the stuff that's in there! About people using the things they dislike about themselves to make someone else feel bad: that's what this person did to me  :(  No matter what I tried to do or say it was never enough. I'm not perfect - in fact I'm a total mess, and I can't do feelings very well :(  But how do you please somebody who gets upset if you DO do something (raging and carrying on) and equally upset if you DON'T do something? :(

This person spent 4 years telling me how selfish I was EVERY SINGLE DAY. My "self-confidence" (hahaha) was already in shreds, and needless to say it only got worse. I ran away from this person eventually but I can honestly say that the damage has never really healed. I really tried to help this person with whatever I had - which wasn't much at all because I couldn't even help myself to get up in the morning - but the person would not stop. All I kept thinking was "If I'm so evil and awful why doesn't this person just leave me alone?"

The funny thing is, the rational part of my mind knew that the person was projecting their own issues on to me, which is the only thing that helped me to survive.

About the anger thing: in my case I was very angry that this person treated me this way, but I'm afraid of conflict, and this fear was definitely used against me. It's not the first time in my life either that an inability to express HEALTHY anger/ engage in necessary conflict has lead to serious negative consequence for myself. :(  Anger as a weapon  is a bad thing, but as a defence it is necessary IMO. Anger (as I understand it) is a signal and a warning that something is not right, and needs to be expressed. It is also something that happens in the moment - a reaction if you will. Rage on the other hand is unspecified, and can linger/ accumulate and "erupt" without specific triggers. I've never learned how to express my anger (frowned upon when I was a child), having learned instead to repress it, and the result has been long-term depression, lack of self-esteem and lack of confidence. So I would argue that anger is necessary and even healthy, whereas rage is damaging.

Whew! It's amazing what a little kindness and concern can do... Posting this has helped me shed a few real tears, and it feels great after all this time.

(((all)))

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: Portia on June 08, 2005, 06:15:37 AM
Hiya 2 cents
Quote
I've never learned how to express my anger (frowned upon when I was a child), having learned instead to repress it, and the result has been long-term depression, lack of self-esteem and lack of confidence. So I would argue that anger is necessary and even healthy, whereas rage is damaging.


I could have written that about me, especially the long-term depression which I didn't even know about until ..er now :? . Anger is definitely  necessary for us, pointed in the correct direction, although probably not expressed to those people we can't reach?

Childhood anger needs expressing in safe ways....the problem is, it seems to me a lot of childhood anger gets expressed in the world - by mistreating other people (I'm thinking wars etc). So I guess feeling angry is necessary, but using that anger against others? Probably better to work through the anger safely and then maintain those strong boundaries in a civil way with the jerks around us (or maybe in not such a civil way :P , depending on how they may like to use their anger...). Complex stuff.

((((((2 cents))))))
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2005, 10:17:42 AM
Hi 2cents:

Thankyou for saying that you like my posts.  There is a lot of stuff in them eh?  Sometimes.......maybe too much stuff?  Maybe not, other times?
Thanks for reading.

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how do you please somebody who gets upset if you DO do something (raging and carrying on) and equally upset if you DON'T do something?


It's probably not possible.

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I really tried to help this person with whatever I had ...


This is not selfish.  The person lied to you big time about that.

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...the rational part of my mind knew that the person was projecting their own issues on to me...


Yay for rational parts!!! 8)   Glad this kicked in!!

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I was very angry that this person treated me this way...


No kidding?  Who wouldn't be?  And hurt?

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...but I'm afraid of conflict, and this fear was definitely used against me.


Which might produce even more anger, maybe?

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Anger as a weapon is a bad thing, but as a defence it is necessary IMO


I agree/disagree??? :?  :?   Like the dork that tried to rob/attack me, in the deep depths of the dark subway station, late at night (where I should not have been alone :oops:  :oops: ).....who was really looking quite terrified, after I let loose a little on him (a lot really, but who's counting :roll: ).   It was a defense to use my anger....to stop this jerk from having control of the situation....to protect myself.....scare him...my weapon.  It was a terrifying risk to do it.  I was totally afraid inside....but.....on the outside......I looked like some nutbar that had escaped from some locked up place....and it worked.  I had no other way that I could think of to escape/scare him away.

That's one kind of example of using anger as a defense/weapon....??? :?  that actually worked.  Thank God!!  Hey!  In that case, it was both eh?  That's why I wrote:  "agree/disagree???"

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Anger (as I understand it) is a signal and a warning that something is not right, and needs to be expressed.


Bingo!!!  It's the expression of it, I think, that can be debated.  Some people think it's ok to yell and scream at others, destroy their property, or do stuff.......and later using the excuse that they were angry.  Personally, I don't buy this one at all.  Much is a choice.  Choosing how to release angry feelings in ways that won't hurt others is best.  Sometimes, we make mistakes, don't do it that way, say and do stuff because we feel angry and allow ourselves to lose control, that hurts other people.  That's when it's time to have courage, be brave, appologize, take responsibility for our behaviour, try to make up for it, work on changing it (if it is occurring with any kind of frequency).

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It is also something that happens in the moment - a reaction if you will.


I have a hard time with this.  I believe we choose to react.  In a split second, many thoughts run through our minds.  We pick one of them and act.  We say....."I'm outta here" and walk away, or we say....."ok...I'm gonna let myself freak", silently somewhere in our heads, and go ahead and do those things.    I just don't buy the "I lost control" excuse.  I think we choose to allow ourselves to lose control.  That's just my opinion.  I could be wrong.

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Rage on the other hand is unspecified, and can linger/ accumulate and "erupt" without specific triggers.


That's a very interesting statement.  I've never thought of rage erupting without a trigger before.    Is it possible....the person may not be aware of what the trigger is but that it still exists???

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I've never learned how to express my anger (frowned upon when I was a child), having learned instead to repress it, ...


I wonder how many people here can relate to this?  Lot's I bet.  Me included.

My opinion, as luny as it may sound, is that repressing it....temporarily...may not be such a horrible thing.  I realize, some people repress it for a very long time, and so it could erupt or cause lingering depression and other problems and that's not good.

But.......the good I see in the awful experince many of us had a children is that we, theoretically, should be fairly good at repressing our anger and therefore less likely to react with rage/let loose/allow ourselves to lose control.  If we are lucky enough to find ways to get it out, in safe ways, when appropriate.....we, theoretically should be the least likely to rant and ruin people.

It's those triggers......that seem to cause some to explode.   Those carrying huge buckets of anger, repressed, for years and years, suddenly....something......sets it free??  Bottom line.  They choose to, after all this time, stop trying to repress it....and worse....allow it allllll to come out in an instant.  Not good.  Not good at all most times (unless......someone is trying to rob/attack you and you maintain in your mind...that you will only try your best to scare the person...heehee :D Even then....a limit is set...a choice is being made).

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...the result has been long-term depression, lack of self-esteem and lack of confidence.


I'm so sorry that you have been through all of this, 2cents.  The good I see is that you are here and working your way through it all.   I really believe the very best way to improve self-esteem, lift depression and build confidence is a combination of:

Thinking and Doing.

1.  Thinking positive thoughts about self.....I am good, etc. (even if you have to force yourself at first)

and

2.  Doing things that feel good, express self, setting and reaching goals....like warm baths, writing or crafts/arts, "I will walk the dog for 10 minutes today"...that kind of stuff...whatever adds good, comfort, expression and challenge to your life.

The more of this one does, the more comfort, release and success is felt/experienced, which only encourages more of the same...better feelings about self/confidence and discourages depression.  This is not to say that we should spend our whole day bathing and playing with play dough, while taking breaks to walk the dog and thinking wonderful things about ourselves.  But little bits of these two things add up and do indeed help most people feel better about themselves and enjoy their lives a little more.  And maybe.....if we are really down....it wouldn't hurt to take a day, some days and just focus on these things??

 
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So I would argue that anger is necessary and even healthy, whereas rage is damaging.


I think I might add that anger needs to be released in healthy ways and rage is a sign that that hasn't happened.  Rage is a warning that anger has been repressed waaaay too long.....unless that rage is purposely planned.......such as in a case of self-defense/as a weapon to preserve life....with limits.

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Whew! It's amazing what a little kindness and concern can do... Posting this has helped me shed a few real tears, and it feels great after all this time.


(((((((((((2cents))))))))))

The tears need to come out too.   Maybe letting them out prevents some anger too?  I'm glad you're posting and expressing yourself.

Please take or leave whatever helps/doesn't.

GFN[/quote]
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on June 08, 2005, 10:44:17 AM
hey, GFN.  Love your ideas....writing.

My ex has an undercurrent of rage in every waking moment.  My sister says he is a stretched rubber band, as tight as it can go, ready to snap.  My other sister says if you scratch his surface at all, boiling rage will erupt!
They are both right on. He has never dealt with his damage from childhood and although others can see where it came from (me) he will NEVER address it, and instead spend his life in anger and misery. For him, anger is a perpetual state of being. This is why he drinks so much.

Your words also made me think of this article in the March 2005 issue of "Shambala Sun" magazine, by Pema Chodron called "The Courage to do Nothing...it's the antidote to anger and other strong emotions".

Her leading statement kind of sets the tone:
"We can supress anger or act it out, eihter way making things worse for ourselves and others. Or we can practice patience, wait, experience the anger and investigate its nature."

Anyway, maybe you can find it online...it's pretty interesting.
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on June 08, 2005, 12:00:16 PM
Hey Portia, mum, GFN

Thanks for the replies! I'm totally in agreement that anger needs to expressed correctly and NOT used for harm. I guess what I'm saying is, sometimes terrible things happen or are done to us, and in that case it is a correct response to get angry. I don't get angry very often, but as a result I've become passive. If someone steps on my toe, I may get angry or irritable, but even if the person did it deliberately I let it go. But if someone were to hurt my child I need to be able to protect my child. I myself have no children but I do have an inner child that needs protecting too, and believe me when I say that my inner child has been very badly let down by my inability as an adult to express anger in an appropriate and adult way. I'm talking losing money, losing homes, losing relationships and seeing these things happen right in front of my face whilst being ABSOLUTELY PARALYSED and unable to take any action whatsoever.

My depression has pretty much gone, but has been replaced by a terrible, life-draining, soul-destroying apathy. The thing is, at heart I'm a passionate soul, but ALL emotions - good and bad - have been suppressed as I am unable to allow myself to CONNECT with my self or my voice. :?  I am not violent, or full of anger, but I have been HURT and been unable to EXPRESS my hurt. Other people express their hurt to me, but I cannot do the same to them.

As for rage and triggers, I think rage is essentially something that is constantly under the surface and it comes out at unspecified moments and at unspecified targets. Usually someone who is raging cannot be asked "What are you angry about"? because they will not be able/willing to give a real, true answer.

GFN, I agree with you about losing control and it being an excuse. The problem I have is that when I am angry I am AFRAID that I will lose control, and it's that FEAR that causes me to suppress the anger, because I was told as a child that "it's not nice" to show that you're angry because a: I was a child and b: I was a girl - not necessarily always in that order. :?  I agree with you that doing things like taking deep breaths or going for a walk first are good things to do before reacting, but I still hold that the anger itself serves a function.

Portia,

wishing you all the best in dealing with the depression :(  my thoughts are with you,

((((all))))

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: mum as guest on June 08, 2005, 12:31:03 PM
2cents: Your post hit a nerve.
I, also, was taught to supress, deny or otherwise ignore my feelings of anger or anything painful.  I understand why my parents did this, as they had nine children....and I can imagine, the chaos and sheer terror it would have incited in any parent to have that many personalities expressing themselves.  I don't blame/excuse my parents, or really offer any judgement on it, but I do understand where it came from.

For me, expressing anger or anything really powerful translated into my feeling that anything other than "hunky dory, everything is ok" expressions of emotion were verboten and I should instead spend all my energy spreading happiness everywhere I went.  I still do that, and have to be aware of when I am doing it, what my motivations are. It's funny, but the one thing I like most about myself is the one thing I hate most also (this "nice" thing).
 I need to always be aware of the all important step of staying still inside my "negative" feelings...not moving through too quickly...not negating them so that I can "move on" to happier things in a hurry.  My not exploring the dark stuff has caused more pain for me in the long run.  I need to constantly remind myself that to move through it, I really need to get into it first.


I am realizing that it's a choice to be this way or not.  I see it differently now.  I DO get really mad, and I DO have a right to be mad about things.  My emotions are real, and I get to own them.  This sounds so..."duh!" but it is something I struggle with all the time!  Here is what I practice saying (as little me.....) "Listen to me, damnit....I know you have a bunch of other kids and I am smallest but NOTICE ME!!!!!"

I learned how to be noticed by being sweet.  When I wasn't sweet and kind, people would say: how selfish of you...don't you know there are others with feelings too?  And "others" became more important than little me.  Thus it began....and I learned that in being sweet there was a kind of power, but it was pretty fake.  I was a great actor when I studied theater, and I don't doubt why.

I married a man who was angrier than me but whose unresolved anger caused him to rage relentlessly or drink or both.  Divorcing him meant that I had to face my own demons....(which I didn't do at first, just married another jerk).  

Anyway, I don't really have a decisive take on everything anyway.  I am sometimes soooo confused that I have to say "whatever" about myself.  
I am pretty sure that the secret lies in knowing that we don't know everything, in having faith in what is good......but who knows, I may be wrong!!!

Good news is: awarenss hurts.....but it heals.  So I am off to my therapist today, and am grateful that I read this thread and wrote this.  I have lots to air with her today! Thanks.
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on June 08, 2005, 03:27:53 PM
Mum,

I just can't get the quote thing to work but can I just say you have described EXACTLY what I go through with the whole niceness and sweetness thing, and so very very eloquently? "My emotions are real, and I get to own them."  Amen. Now what I want is to

a:) acknowledge them    
b:) understand them and
c:) express them

I am glad if I have helped in any way, however small, and when I can do the above three things there's gonna be a party and you're all invited! Thanks so much,

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: noteBOUTtension2mum on June 08, 2005, 04:10:37 PM
well mum
i were a reading somewhere online
that all personality disorders have in common
unresolved anger and frustration
and i suppose the type of
what are there now ..16 personality disorders
the way they dont properly deal
and then improperly get distorted
by this unresolved anger
determines aspects of the personality disorder...

hmmm
but unresolved issues are not just common
to personality disorders
and now i cant recall how
such was particularly linked
to personality disorders..
ifn i come across it
.. i might plug it in here later :)
or if anyone else can plug it in in a post...

yes my disorder is
a disturbance about certain kinds of punctuationing ....:)
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on June 08, 2005, 04:18:47 PM
Don't quite understand why all those emoticons came out towards the end of my post?

Hope it still makes some sense,

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: b angry and sin not on June 08, 2005, 04:21:41 PM
methinks
there be such a thing as righteous anger
and it relates to
be slow to anger
and
be angry and sin not

and to this too
Think on This ...
. . to meet the disturbing factors with as much joyousness as if they were bringing pleasure in the material sight, will alter . . . much in the heart and mind of the seeker. For that which is is a result of the thinking of individuals as related one to another.

Edgar Cayce Reading 610-1
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on June 08, 2005, 07:25:46 PM
hey, 2cents.  Glad to find a fellow "trapped in nice" person.  I think the emoticons were cool, even if they were a mistake! :D
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2005, 08:02:52 PM
Hi all:

Hey Mum thanks: I love your ideas and writing too.  I mean it.  You look deeply at things and then somehow make the simple meaning clear, so often.  I miss you when you don't post (but I understand there is life after the net).

Re Your ex:  What a wasted life!  What pain on himself and others!  Practically sinfully sad and frustrating.  Such a disease!!!!!!  :shock:  :x  :(  :cry:  :evil:  :!:  :!:  :!:

Thanks too for the article.  Will try looking it up and if I find a link, I'll post it (or if anyone beats me to it......great!!!).
 
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"We can supress anger or act it out, eihter way making things worse for ourselves and others. Or we can practice patience, wait, experience the anger and investigate its nature."


Makes sense to me.  If only the whole world were trying for it eh?  Can you imagine??   Makes me enthused about heaven, if they'll only let me in!! :oops:  :oops:

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I guess what I'm saying is, sometimes terrible things happen or are done to us, and in that case it is a correct response to get angry.


I think so too sometimes and sometimes when terrible things happen the best response is to be cool, calm and collected....and plan a way away....and THENNNNNNN.....allow the anger to be released appropriately.

I see what you're saying though.......you're passive.  Hummmmm.
So the problem isn't really in feeling the anger, you feel it alright, it's in expressing it....in a way that doesn't scare you......in a way that seems ok??

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my inner child has been very badly let down by my inability as an adult to express anger in an appropriate and adult way.


So, what you need then, is to learn to express your anger!
Now there's something doable.

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being ABSOLUTELY PARALYSED and unable to take any action whatsoever.


Wow!  So you don't have a problem with expressing rage then? :D  :D
(just kidding 2cents.  trying to make you smile).

Ok.....so......paralyzed eh???  Well.  It almost sounds like fear to me.
Were you afraid?  Afraid to fight for what you deserved?  Is it fear that was actually the problem?   Are you afraid of anything specific now?

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My depression has pretty much gone, but has been replaced by a terrible, life-draining, soul-destroying apathy.


Apathy?  Lack of feeling?  A bit Numb??  Fear can do that too.  Are you sure you're not seriously afraid to feel or afraid of something???

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The thing is, at heart I'm a passionate soul, but ALL emotions - good and bad - have been suppressed as I am unable to allow myself to CONNECT with my self or my voice.


Wait a minute.  Let me get this straight.  You're passive, paralyzed, slightly depressed (almost not depressed....depression is mostly gone), apathetic and passionate???

I'm not making fun here 2cents.  I'm trying to make sense of it because I'm confused.  How can that be??  Something's gotta give.  I'm not denying your feelings, or lack of them, but you just described a conflicting emotional state.

Passive - accepting or submitting without objection or resistence, submissive.

Paralyzed - unable to move or act, impaired progresss.

Depressed - low in spirits, dejected, sluggish, suffering intense sadness, etc.  (only slightly so, in your case).

Apathetic - feeling slow, lack of interest, concern, feeling little or no emotion, unresponsive....

Those go together like salt and pepper and garlic (or other favorite) but this:

Passionate - capable of having or dominated by powerful emotions, wrathful by temperament, showing or expressing strong emotion etc.

Are you saying this passionate person resides inside of you and is dying to get out???  But you are unable.......UNABLE....to allow the connection between this and yourself/voice???

Maybe you are able, if you figger out what's stopping you from letting passionate 2cents talk to the world?  Is it scary?  Could it be fear again?

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I am not violent, or full of anger, but I have been HURT and been unable to EXPRESS my hurt. Other people express their hurt to me, but I cannot do the same to them.


I'm so sorry that you are feeling all of this conflicting stuff, 2cents.  If you feel hurt inside and unable to express it, then my best guess is that this is causing you the most distress.  Again, what is keeping you from expressing that hurt?  Could it be fear????

Quote
As for rage and triggers, I think rage is essentially something that is constantly under the surface and it comes out at unspecified moments and at unspecified targets. Usually someone who is raging cannot be asked "What are you angry about"? because they will not be able/willing to give a real, true answer.


Yes, I agree for some people, this is probably quite the case.  My only arguement/challenge/differing opinion here though is that it's not the rage that's the problem......it's not controlling the URGE to release the rage, in an appropriate manner that's the problem.  People like this.....full of so much volitile anger....are maybe afraid to let it out too????  And then....they suddenly give in to the urge....they choose to let go......and holymoleymacaroni what an explosion!!!!  Who knows??  I don't because I'm not full of rage, I can assure you, but I grew up where it was a normal, frequent occurrence and it wasn't pretty.

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GFN, I agree with you about losing control and it being an excuse. The problem I have is that when I am angry I am AFRAID that I will lose control, and it's that FEAR that causes me to suppress the anger,


There we go.  I should have read your whole post before starting mine but that's ok...I guess I guessed right so all is well and all that.  Yes, 2cents.

Fear

Now that's a discussion that keeps me hopping because it almost seems like the strongest, most influential emotion, the root of many other emotions, to me.  But maybe I'm 1/2 nuts or worse (heehee....maybe not....that's the real scary part!!! :D  :D ).

You know what I think 2cents, I think you might just need practice.  Let's face it....you seem to have been repressing all these not so nice feelings for along time and you don't seem happy about it, it doesn't seem like it's helping you in your life, right?  It almost sounds like it's building up and building up and now....rather than go into it.....it feels better, safer, more comfortable to just shut down....be numb????  Am I close???

If so why not try something different because what you seem to be doing, isn't working for you?  

The thing is..........the only way is to face the fear.

Sorry to say, 2cents, it's gotta be done.  If you let it rule, you'll probably continue to repress and suppress and apatheticallyparalyze all that wonderful, amazing passion that's lying inside you.....just waiting to come out and live and bring so much to your life and others!!  

So what next?  More later ok?  That's enough of my yacking on the subject for now, plus I need to think some more on it, plus, maybe I'm boring you, plus......I can't think of any more excuses but give me time and I will. :D  :D  :D

Mum wrote:
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For me, expressing anger or anything really powerful translated into my feeling that anything other than "hunky dory, everything is ok" expressions of emotion were verboten and I should instead spend all my energy spreading happiness everywhere I went. I still do that, and have to be aware of when I am doing it, what my motivations are. It's funny, but the one thing I like most about myself is the one thing I hate most also (this "nice" thing).


Do you express anger sometimes now, Mum?  What do you do?  Do you always express it or do you release it appropriately, sometimes?   How did you learn?

Answer if it feels ok Mum.  The more ideas the better.

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I was a great actor when I studied theater, and I don't doubt why.


Was acting a kind of release too?  Good for you for moving slowly through your emotions now, Mum.  That's a great accomplishment!

 
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I am sometimes soooo confused that I have to say "whatever" about myself.


This is good too.....taking a break and trying to figger out exactly what it is you doooo feel?  I do that too sometimes.  And then, what's causing it and how to react/release/respond to it?

Quote
I am pretty sure that the secret lies in knowing that we don't know everything, in having faith in what is good.


Can't hurt to keep learning, or hold onto faith and good stuff, imo.

Hope you had a good air with the T Mum!!!    
 
By the way:  THE QUOTE THING:

1.  Left click and slide pointer across text you want to quote until it's highlighted.
2.  Left click on the word:  "Quote" at the top of your message box.
3.  Put pointer back on the highlighted text and click again.

Voila!!

Hey......Cosmic Joe.....can I call you Cos?

You made me giggle with this:

Quote
yes my disorder is
a disturbance about certain kinds of punctuationing ....  :lol:


Do they have treatment for that???

Enough for one .....next.....later.....I know I missed P's post....can't remember it all now.....back soon to add more. :shock:  :shock:  8)

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mum as guest on June 08, 2005, 08:31:40 PM
Hey, GFN: thanks for the post.
I still have to work hard at expressing myself...actually that's not so much it as: expressing myself meaningfully and with full intention.  It's easy for me to fall into the pattern of making a lot of noise but not really knowing or being fully consious of what the noise is about.  I have no problem expressing my opinion (in case you didn't notice :lol: ) but in all that bravada, I am still sometimes terrified of bullies (like my ex) and of being misunderstood.
I am learning to be patient and many many times I have seen that things change while I am just waiting to react or speak...instead of simply doing it and thinking later.  Many times the things I was most worried about or upset about either smooth out or are not such a big deal or something else happens.  In this way, I am much more centered, less reactive.  I still have my convictions, and I stick with them, but they are even more powerful and meaningful now, because I have seen them through many storms and they are still there. I don't have to get up and scream them anymore....I just patiently and persistenly put one foot in front of the other toward my intention....and I have faith the rest takes care of itself. It will...it does.
BTW: therapist was sick ( :cry: ) She is like a mom to me, so I am concerned for her health...probably just a cold from people like me crying on her shoulder!
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2005, 09:06:50 PM
Here goes some more.  If your eyes are hurting....too much reading...think of my fingys?? :D

Quote
Anger is definitely necessary for us, pointed in the correct direction, although probably not expressed to those people we can't reach?


Good point P.  If they can't be reached, we will probably feel fairly frustrated in the end.  Better to find a nice set of bongo drums and let 'er fly eh?

Quote
Childhood anger needs expressing in safe ways....the problem is, it seems to me a lot of childhood anger gets expressed in the world - by mistreating other people (I'm thinking wars etc).


Good old repressed anger.  Did I say it's good to repress anger?  I think I did.  Yes it is....sometimes....maybe.  But a lifetime's worth??  Uh uh....no way.  That builds into repressed rage.....nasty stuff.

Quote
Probably better to work through the anger safely


So what's safe?  I wish there were a couple of Inhuit here to let us know.  There is no possible way that they don't feeeeel anger.  They were just taught that it is dangerous/unacceptable to express it toward others.  Therefore.....they must have some really fancy ways of getting it out.

Like carving bone, for instance?
Drum playing?
Rough wrestling games maybe?

So......we end up with two scenarios....of many.

1.  The person today, who is full of pent up, repressed anger gone close to rage.   They need to learn to release their anger appropriately, right?  Or else they may choose to let it explode....allow their urge to rage loose.

2.  The person who is passive, who feels afraid to express that repressed anger.....any anger.  They need to learn to release their anger appropriately too, right?   They may also need more confidence and practice being assertive.

But fear stands in the way of release.
Fear that it will be a terrible, awful experience?
Fear that it will start and not end?
Fear that the really deep anger will somehow hurt worse coming out than it does staying in?

Remember above I wrote that the fear must be faced???

How to face fear???

How do we face fear?

Want to know how I do it?

IGNOR IT.  REPRESS THE FEAR, NOT THE ANGER.

Do I do this alllll of the time?  Ofcourse not.  But mostly when it seems best.  (Sometimes fear is worth paying attention to too, such as when the house is about to burn down).

Where  did I learn this....from some book....some great doctor....some scientist.....some secret place???

From a marital arts instructor. :shock:  :D

Not a genious.  Nobody special.  Just a person teaching basic stuff.

"Ignor the fear and use your anger whenever the enemy attacks".

Or......as adapted to real life......ignor the fear and express your anger appropriately, as necessary.

2cents wrote:

Quote
I was told as a child that "it's not nice" to show that you're angry because a: I was a child and b: I was a girl - not necessarily always in that order.


You were taught not to express anger.  I guess.....you will need to relearn.
It's ok to express anger appropriately.   It is a feeling that all people experience, even a girl, even the little girl from the past.   I feel angry, is an ok thing to say.  This will need repetition in order to sink in (unless you are extensively photo memory prone-not me I'm afraid :roll: ).

re feeling:
Quote
what I want is to

a acknowledge them
b understand them and
c express them


And so you should!  You have already done some quite clearly.  You have been hurt, are slightly depressed, submissive, unable to move or act (tired too??), lack of interest, slow, emotionally, little or no emotion....not in so many words but by definition.  That's good 2cents....putting all that down.

What else?  Are you willing to pretend a little?  Will you write down what you would really like to say to someone who hurt you?  Remember one incident and then pretend to speak to the person.....remember what you felt....remember what it was like for you.....and really put it into words.  I know it's not the same as saying it.....but it is a way of expressing and it might help???

Hey Cos:
Quote

Think on This ...
. . to meet the disturbing factors with as much joyousness as if they were bringing pleasure in the material sight, will alter . . . much in the heart and mind of the seeker. For that which is is a result of the thinking of individuals as related one to another.


Edgar wouldn't be Inhuit would he?

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2005, 10:00:49 PM
Hey GFN,

Quote
Where did I learn this....from some book....some great doctor....some scientist.....some secret place???

From a marital arts instructor.


Does your husband know you're taking lessons from a marital arts instructor? :wink:  :lol:  :wink:
He's sure one understanding guy if he does. :P  :lol:

mudpup
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 08, 2005, 11:01:59 PM
Hiya Cos:

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be slow to anger
and
be angry and sin not


Sounds like a contradiction.  Anger is said to be one of the seven deadly sins.  A lot like those great great white white Northerners too eh?

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I am still sometimes terrified of bullies (like my ex) and of being misunderstood.


I think we all feel real, intense fear sometimes about something or somebody Mum.  

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I just patiently and persistenly put one foot in front of the other toward my intention.


While thinking about the fear or ignoring it?

Sorry your T was sick. :(  Hope she'll be ok.  I'm glad you have her to air things with and her shoulder to cry on.  (((((Mum))))

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Does your husband know you're taking lessons from a marital arts instructor?    
He's sure one understanding guy if he does.


Actually Muddy, those lessons were a long time ago, when I was 16 but they stuck like glue.  That teacher taught me so much about life and attitude, people, reactions, thinking processes, assertiveness, you name it.   All in a few short years.

I highly reccomend martial arts to anyone who lacks confidence and wants to learn how to deal with fear.  Even if you are not the fittest fiddle in the fiesta.....there are clubs that will have classes to suit.  Wonderful stuff!

Here's the link Mum was talking about:

http://www.shambhalasun.com/Archives/Features/2005/March/theanswertoanger.htm

No wonder I've been praying for more patience for so long.

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mum as guest on June 08, 2005, 11:24:29 PM
GFN: I am in awe....you computer whiz, you.  (I am a Luddite with these things!!!)
Thanks for the link....
and I think Mud was refering to the spelling "marital" vs "martial".... :shock:
Title: Anything
Post by: Butterfly on June 08, 2005, 11:30:29 PM
Guest wrote:
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AND THE ONE THAT FOLLOWS
WHERE ONE WAS WONDERING WHAT WAS GOIN ON
..EQUALLY OR MORE WHAT GUEST IS SPEAKING ABOUT
...ONE WONDERS WHAT IS GOING ON
WHAT IS BEING REFERRED TO
AN EVEN MORE INSIDER THING
PERHAPS

 
I'm sorry if I sounded  kinda exclusive in anyway.  Didn't mean to :(  

2cents wrote:
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But how do you please somebody who gets upset if you DO do something (raging and carrying on) and equally upset if you DON'T do something?


Wow, that's a tough one 2cents.  It seems like you wouldn't win with that person no matter what you do.  Perhaps, it's a lose-lose situation with that individual.  I have a few questions, though.  Do you feel it's your responsibility to please that person, or your responsibility to do something in which not to upset that person?  Would you feel you did something wrong if you had upset the person?

 
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myself have no children but I do have an inner child that needs protecting too, and believe me when I say that my inner child has been very badly let down by my inability as an adult to express anger in an appropriate and adult way. I'm talking losing money, losing homes, losing relationships and seeing these things happen right in front of my face whilst being ABSOLUTELY PARALYSED and unable to take any action whatsoever.


I struggle a lot with guilt.  I find that guilt paralyses me.  It is a very toxic thing to have in ones thinking.  Guilt literally holds a person back from moving forward with life, psychologically, personally speaking.  So, in your case, I wonder if guilt has anything to do with feeling that you've disappointed your "inner child" and "unable to take any action whatsoever"?

Guilt is such a strong feeling for me still.  Don't really know how to deal with it effectively, yet.  Speaking from my own experience, I think the presence of subconscious guilt has a lot to do with not being able to express anger in such a way that brings productive results.

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So I would argue that anger is necessary and even healthy,


I'm with you on that.  But, I would add that anger is only healthy if you don't feel guilty about what you were angry about.


GFN wrote:
 
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Like the dork that tried to rob/attack me, in the deep depths of the dark subway station, late at night (where I should not have been alone   ).....who was really looking quite terrified, after I let loose a little on him


Yeah, you sure showed him who was boss! :wink:   Obviously, that lunatic was messing with the wrong person, didn't he. :x   Good for you, GFN!  :D  :D

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on June 09, 2005, 04:54:45 AM
Hi all,

GFN, I get what you're saying about anger and fear and letting things out appropriately. All I'm trying to say is that some people - myself included - don't know HOW.

My family was literally in shreds by the time I was 6 years old and I have never recovered from what happened to me as a little girl - I have major issues with abandonment and a whole caboodle of other stuff that I can't deal with properly. :x  Of course the little me was angry - my life changed forever without even an explanation! I'm not talking about throwing tantrums cause baby bro got the green sweet when i wanted the green sweet, I'm talking where are my brothers, why are they gone, why won't you tell me, why should I be nice when I don't understand?

My mother is dead, and my father behaves as if he is too, and my brothers don't talk about anything real with me, so where is the anger supposed to go? How do I even find it? Most people tell me - get over it, it happened so long ago, but it's determined the course of my life in such fundamentally negative ways and I get no help, no acknowledgement from my family, just like when I was a little girl.

I avoid relationships because I can't handle them,  because I can't handle conflict, so I can't grow, so I can't live, which is how I can be passive, apathetic and passionate all at the same time. This topic - and all your responses - are hitting nerves in me, and I'm glad, cause it makes me mad, it makes me cry, and I express myself. See? And nobody suffers any lasting damage :wink:

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on June 09, 2005, 05:18:45 AM
Quote from: mum as guest
2cents: Your post hit a nerve.
I, also, was taught to supress, deny or otherwise ignore my feelings of anger or anything painful.  I understand why my parents did this, as they had nine children....and I can imagine, the chaos and sheer terror it would have incited in any parent to have that many personalities expressing themselves.  I don't blame/excuse my parents, or really offer any judgement on it, but I do understand where it came from.

For me, expressing anger or anything really powerful translated into my feeling that anything other than "hunky dory, everything is ok" expressions of emotion were verboten and I should instead spend all my energy spreading happiness everywhere I went.  I still do that, and have to be aware of when I am doing it, what my motivations are. It's funny, but the one thing I like most about myself is the one thing I hate most also (this "nice" thing).
 I need to always be aware of the all important step of staying still inside my "negative" feelings...not moving through too quickly...not negating them so that I can "move on" to happier things in a hurry.  My not exploring the dark stuff has caused more pain for me in the long run.  I need to constantly remind myself that to move through it, I really need to get into it first.


I am realizing that it's a choice to be this way or not.  I see it differently now.  I DO get really mad, and I DO have a right to be mad about things.  My emotions are real, and I get to own them.  This sounds so..."duh!" but it is something I struggle with all the time!  Here is what I practice saying (as little me.....) "Listen to me, damnit....I know you have a bunch of other kids and I am smallest but NOTICE ME!!!!!"

I learned how to be noticed by being sweet.  When I wasn't sweet and kind, people would say: how selfish of you...don't you know there are others with feelings too?  And "others" became more important than little me.  Thus it began....and I learned that in being sweet there was a kind of power, but it was pretty fake.

Mum,

this is what I was trying to say but you've said it perfectly! Of course it's right to acknowledge others' feelings, but not at the cost of having to maintain a front of 'niceness' in the face of real injustice to oneself :?  And I also learned to 'move too quickly' and RUSH to make things 'better' on the surface, but that's not facing the truth. We HAVE to explore the dark stuff and understand it and FEEL it so we can understand, explore and FEEL the good stuff, and also learn more about who we really are.

I'm gonna go back and reread cause so much stuff is coming up and coming out and I just wanna thank everyone again.

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on June 09, 2005, 06:01:29 AM
Butterfly,

I felt responsible for that person because she said she loved me (nothing sexual) and would kill herself if I ever "abandoned" her. She made feel guilty for everything. One time I was out with my xbf and she'd raged at her own bf and he said he wasn't coming over, so she called me and siad she'd tried cutting her wrists. I rushed over there on the last subway, only to find that her bf had gotten there 5 mins before me, and now she needed to "talk" to him and so I should go to my room like a little child!

This person was very controlling and jealous and possessive, and would use any excuse to make other people feel REALLY BAD. Like screaming at me cause SHE hadn't done the dishes and HER mother was coming over and somehow I was selfish and evil. :(  I got really messed up about it cause the goalposts were always moving, and I just kept trying and trying and it was never enough. I eventually left, and guess what? She didn't fall apart, or kill herself, or go crazy - she was FINE and still is.

There was a lot of guilt in that relationship, and I do have a really hard time with guilt in general. The thing is, I know it's counterproductive and I used to treat it as such, but after the depression I pretty much just stopped caring or trying anymore.

GFN,

I've reread your posts, and there's a lot of good advice there as usual :D

I think I'll try the pretend conversations to try and really get some of this out once and for all.

I DO think it's fear that stops me from doing a lot of stuff. I think the message I got as a child was that my anger was sooo bad that it would cause bad things to happen. :?  I also think that having parented myself as best I could for so long I'm really angry at myself for being a lousy parent! I'm starting  therapy (AGAIN!) on Monday but this time I think I'm finally in a place where I can begin the real work of confronting certain things and letting them go once and for all.

Thanks again

((((all))))

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: P on June 09, 2005, 08:06:54 AM
Great anger post GFN, I too agree that we choose to lose control. (Unless we get into serious mental illness, where I simply don’t know enough to comment, but I guess even with serious illness, psychopathy, the question might be, what is in control to lose it? Hmmm if you’ve lost your ego, I guess ‘you’ aren’t in control of anything to start with?)

Anyway, yes, “I didn’t know what I was doing” is not exactly true, I guess what people mean is “I didn’t know why I was doing it”. I still get annoyed with the expression “and then the children came along”, for obvious reasons pertinent to me. Clean up the language eh. Clean it up!

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Rage is a warning that anger has been repressed waaaay too long.....
right! I wonder if I’ll see this in muuutherrrr? I hope not. On the other hand, what the heck, I’d cope. Where’s my Linda Hamilton stash of hardware? joking....

Oh 2cents, thank you for your kind and generous thoughts about:
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wishing you all the best in dealing with the depression

I think I gave you the wrong impression with:
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I could have written that about me, especially the long-term depression which I didn't even know about until ..er now
What I was badly saying was, I’ve probably been depressed for most of my life until now, but now I’m getting better! I didn’t realise that life doesn’t have to be like – like it was for me. I thought everyone felt like I did. But now I know better.

I hope your new therapy gives you the chance to EXPRESS. Can you go in and ask for this? “I want to express my anger!” :D . Don’t see why not. I’ve never set foot inside a therapist’s place so I don’t know.


Cosmic……
 :D
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yes my disorder is
a disturbance about certain kinds of punctuationing

Possibly
Chronic
Paragraphy
Complex?

I have apostrophaphy. It can be quite debilitating. It stops me reading books where there might appear a misplaced ‘ . I cant :shock:  concentrate after seeing a missing ‘. I’ve had some therapy. I can now see tomato’s at the market and not flinch…well, not too much. Ouch..

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to meet the disturbing factors with as much joyousness as if they were bringing pleasure in the material sight, will alter . . . much in the heart and mind of the seeker.

I love this and then I thought: does this mean I should force myself to look at car accidents again? Probably. I think it’s about emotion and compassion maybe. I'm serious about the car accidents.


GFN
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Makes me enthused about heaven, if they'll only let me in!!
Whaddya mean? You’re going to be immortal then? :D  I’m gonna take up the bongos (bongoes? Where does bon go?).

Releasing anger: is this why we still have boxing :x  as a sport? I really dislike boxing. :evil:  Maybe I really dislike my primitive side. Aha! We’re back to (sh)nagging! Darn! Not here, not now, another time, another place….and we’ll always have Paris :D

I’m way too unserious to stay around ( :? ?work that one out? I feel unstable when I feel fun. That’s probably because I’m an Idealist(12)/Rational(11). No distinct type, but extroversion makes me nervy, as does sensing. Tricky this dark side stuff! In progress, no! Not here.)

Hey 2cents, you won’t die if you get angry. And you won’t kill anyone by getting angry with them. True! But keeping the anger in can have the opposite effect, heart attacks etc. Not healthy. I hope you can get very angry :D
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on June 09, 2005, 08:58:29 AM
2 cents (euros),

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I'm starting therapy (AGAIN!) on Monday but this time I think I'm finally in a place where I can begin the real work of confronting certain things and letting them go once and for all.


I'm so happy for you.  :D  I am doing this in therapy now and it is scary, but oh, so helpful to finally healing those deep, festering wounds.

I will keep you in my prayers that you finally find the peace you so richly deserve.

Hugs,

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 09, 2005, 09:05:42 AM
Good morning everyone:

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I think Mud was refering to the spelling "marital" vs "martial"


Mum, hahahahahaha. heeheehee.....how dense is that???  Marital Arts eh?

"We begin today class with the first lesson of marital arts.  Always paint your partner as pleasing!!!"

Missed that completely as I am a real whiz speller, as you can see!!!  Too funny!  Thanks Mud and Mum.  Gave me quite a laugh first thing this day!
 
Butterfly wrote:
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I struggle a lot with guilt. I find that guilt paralyses me. It is a very toxic thing to have in ones thinking. Guilt literally holds a person back from moving forward with life, psychologically, personally speaking.


Absolutely for me too.  But behind the guilt, there is always fear.  Fear that I have done something really wrong, hurtful, inappropriate, that I am bad, that people won't like me anymore, that there's something wrong with me.....etc.  Once I examine it further and realize that the guilt is being directed directly at me, from my own thinking, and that what I did, said, wasn't part of me but was a poor choice I made because I am not perfect......the guilt/fears begin to subside and the paralysis fades.

Guilt is a useful tool in that it teaches us how to behave properly, imo.  But....it's usefulness is limited.  Once it becomes paralyzing, or once it becomes the main/major emotion being felt toward self.......it is debilitating, imo.

I try to tell myself to examine why I feel guilty, when I really do things wrong and to let go of guilt that arises from what if's, what should have's and fears....and especially....at me.   A great way to think of it, for me, is rather than saying:

"I feel guilty ......" is rather, "I regret that I did such and such..."   These words, for me, give me less shame and seem to express more realistic, less beatmyselfuppish, more specific feeling about my action, rather than myself.  Guilt can be so hard to pin down but regret just clarifies exactly what was done.  Does that make any sense?  It's hard to explain.  Try it next time you're feeling guilty.....ask yourself what you are feeling guilty about, why, what exactly did you do, try to get away from thinking derogatory things about you....locate what you did...and then put it into a sentence......I regret that I blanked.   Maybe it will help you too???

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I'm with you on that. But, I would add that anger is only healthy if you don't feel guilty about what you were angry about.


Boy Butterfly, does this ring bells!!!  These two combined make for a real tough cookie to crack.  It's so confusing to feel guilty about feeling angry.  I can relate in a big way.  I would only add that often it's the guilt, not the anger, that stems from fear and is probably gone haywire and causing the biggest difficulty.  Examine guilt carefully, imo, and reword it to fit the crime.

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GFN wrote:
Quote:
Like the dork that tried to rob/attack me, in the deep depths of the dark subway station, late at night (where I should not have been alone ).....who was really looking quite terrified, after I let loose a little on him  


Yeah, you sure showed him who was boss!  Obviously, that lunatic was messing with the wrong person, didn't he.  Good for you, GFN!  


Thanks Butterfly.  These experiences are very odd.  Not at all what one would expect.  I ran down to the platform and at the bottom of the stairs, in the dark subway station, this dimwit jumps infront of me, grabs my jacket at chest level, shoves a knife in my face and says:  "Give me your money or you'll die!!", in a menacing tone with a facial expression from hell!!

Can you imagine the complete and utter massive extent of the fear??

I can still feel it, if I think about it for awhile!  But, even though I was not very highly trained, or much skilled in my art, and very young, my mind and body reacted as I had been taught, and I broke his hold in a split second, backing away and roaring, like a wild, crazed animal!!  Spittle flying!!  Inside I told myself "Ignor the fear, use the anger" and outside, I let loose the most horrific stream of swear words entangled in logical, assertive direction ever known to humankind --telling him exactly what I was going to do to him if he took one step toward me, that I was a deadly weapon, that he was the one going to die if he had the guts......come on to mamma......let's tango......calling him names I didn't know I knew.....(the only other time I ever remember swearing like that was much later, at the moment I was giving birth to my third child and a long list of disgusting curses escaped my lips, when I immediately covered my mouth with my hand, in complete shock and embarrassment of myself....and a whole room full of medical staff...burst into laughter and said......"It's ok...we've heard worse!!").

Anyway, inside.....I was shaking like a leaf but outside....I would be appalled to see what I looked like.....but it did scare the sob away, and I kept telling myself that the train would be there in only a minute or two and all I had to do was keep this creep at bay a little longer.  Soon the train came, I stepped backward into it, still screaming, the doors shut and the poor people on that train witnessed a very young, angry, terrified, girl spewing much of the pain from childhood at the glass doors of a subway car.  Nobody looked me in the eye, once I sat down and tried to breathe.  Nobody showed any sign of anything but fear.  I thought:

"Holey Moley!  Did I do that??  Never would of thought I had it in me."

And I have to tell you that that doe doe bird did me a big favour!  I felt so much lighter, after that experiece, so much more sure that I could do it again, if I had to.  I felt much relieved of my anger, and that I had let it go it an appropriate moment.  I felt sure that that poor, pathetic man, who slinked away, looking terrified, might think twice about attacking people in future and so I had done a good thing for him.  I felt good about myself and prayed for the poor b#$%^&fd that he had learned something important and that he would change his behaviour and find something good and useful to do with his life, rather than risk it.....by accosting seemingly innocent, weak, young females in dark subway stations at night.
I wasn't as afraid of scary looking people after that and I didn't take stupid risks, like I had done by being there in the first place.  I learned so much in a few minutes and it took a great hold.

So 2cents......I left out a biggie......the other feeling that you have acknowledged is probably the biggest feeling going......and it's one that we all feel, at one time or other, one that can freeze us into place, or be...

Ignored.

You have acknowledged your fear and that is a very big step!  Good for you!  It takes courage to say "I'm afraid".   It's much easier to stay frozen and just feel it than it is to admit, express, release it.

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I get what you're saying about anger and fear and letting things out appropriately. All I'm trying to say is that some people - myself included - don't know HOW.


A little at a time, 2cents.  You can always work your way up to a major discharge at some later point.  For now......how about just a little??
 
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Of course the little me was angry...


What else, 2cents??  What other feeling is there with the anger, beneath the anger?

I'm so sorry that your mother died.  How awful for you!!  Poor little girl with no mommy!  ((((((((((2cents))))))))).   There are no real words for such hurt!

My aunt died at a very young age.  My cousin was 11.  I remember his torment.  He banged his head against the wall all day, pounding it with his fists, crying and agonizing.  Such despair!!  I sat with him, watching him, telling him to let it out, that is was ok.  I was 11 too.  I didn't know how to soothe him.  There is no soothing such pain, is there???

Hurt.....despair.....deep, deep sadness.  Isn't that what's buried beneath that anger 2cents.  Did you mourn your mother's death?  Were you allowed to?

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Most people tell me - get over it, it happened so long ago...


The only way to get over it is to get through it, as Mum says.  If you've not grieved this huge, giant loss........no wonder it's so hard to put it on a shelf in your head.  Maybe it would help you to really go there and release it.  A little at a time, if need be.  Pound a pillow, (not bang your head on the wall --my cousin's head is made of rock so it didn't harm him...heehee but the average person may do actual damage by such action).
Scream and see what other feelings come out.  
Remember how you felt when your mother was gone.

You won't die from this.  You won't go nuts.  It needs to come out.

re the comments here you wrote:
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I'm glad, cause it makes me mad, it makes me cry, and I express myself. See? And nobody suffers any lasting damage.


What great news 2cents!!  I'm so glad too!  Crying is a release.  And you are expressing yourself, keep doing that!!  We are here with you.  You don't have to be afraid any longer.  It's safe to feel what's in there.

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This person was very controlling and jealous and possessive, and would use any excuse to make other people feel REALLY BAD.


It's good that you're talking about this experience.  I'm so glad you got away!!  Good for you 2cents!!

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I do have a really hard time with guilt in general.


What did you do that was really so very wrong and hurtful?
What would you do differently, if you had the chance again?
What do you regret?

Well.......looks like another record long post.  Hope ya'll have access to a good cuppa java!!

Enjoy today all!!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mudpuppy on June 09, 2005, 10:49:59 AM
Hi GFN,

Just out of curiosity, do your instructors give different colored belts as you become more proficient in the marital arts too? :wink:  :oops:  :P

I knew you meant 'martial' not 'marital' but I couldn't pass up the opportunity. :twisted:

Thanks for making my post understandable mum.

mud
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on June 09, 2005, 12:06:36 PM
GFN: I loved your story in the subway.  I sometimes wish I could have such a discernable moment of power. Instead I seem to have a smarmy undercurrent of semi-evil to deal with in my day to day dealings with my ex.  There is no "moment".  There are little ones....where I hold my ground, or I say no to this and yes to that.  I wish I could scream and spit and he would back off!  But his type of evil is insidious, persistent, nagging, confusing.
The fear is always there, right under the surface, so that every interaction is a decision in mastering fear.
Why can't he do something out of control that shows the world, once and for all, what a crazy thing he has become?  Why can't  I simply get him to run off, scared?

Anyway, living vicariously through your experience was wonderful.  Thanks for the great read.
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on June 10, 2005, 04:06:35 AM
Gotta dash but just wanted to say a big hi to Brigid, and thanks for all the encouragement! :D
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2005, 10:48:34 AM
Hey Ya'll!

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Just out of curiosity, do your instructors give different colored belts as you become more proficient in the marital arts too?
 

Awwwwww Mud, I wish they did. :(   All one gets is colored in the face in marital arts class. :oops:  :oops:

 :D

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I knew you meant 'martial' not 'marital' but I couldn't pass up the opportunity.  

No worries Mud.  It was a good opportunity!!! :D  :D

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I sometimes wish I could have such a discernable moment of power.


Well, Mum.  It was that because I made it that.  Some might have thought of it as a horrible experience, terrifying, self-demeaning, be traumatized by it, suffer nightmares and be afraid to walk alone in places from then on!   It's all attitude and choice eh?

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Instead I seem to have a smarmy undercurrent of semi-evil to deal with in my day to day dealings with my ex. There is no "moment". There are little ones....where I hold my ground, or I say no to this and yes to that.


Those moments do add up.  Maybe they end up being even more powerful as a group, rather than individually???  I'm glad you have those moments mum!!  Take as much from them as you can to build you up!!!

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I wish I could scream and spit and he would back off! But his type of evil is insidious, persistent, nagging, confusing.


What the heck!  Grab a pillow and spit away!!  Or visualize you spitting and screaming and the evil slinking away, like a timid rabbit.  Why not.
It might help a little, maybe??

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The fear is always there, right under the surface, so that every interaction is a decision in mastering fear.


Good for you mum for that!  Ignor the fear and think!!  It can be done!  A skill worth practicing and I have a feeling you might already be mastering it!!  Keep trying mum!!!  You won't have to deal with this puke forever!!

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Why can't he do something out of control that shows the world, once and for all, what a crazy thing he has become? Why can't I simply get him to run off, scared?


Do you really want him to do something out of control??  Wouldn't it hurt someone?  Maybe what you mean is you wish for him to do something to expose himself, for the world to see his craziness?  It's so unfair mum!
These one's who look good to everyone else and we get to see what they're really like!  I wish I could say something useful to help.  I don't know what?

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Anyway, living vicariously through your experience was wonderful. Thanks for the great read.


Thanks for reading mum.  It was good to write that.  Good to remember that "awful" experience.  It was awful.  I could have lost my life.  But to ignor the fear and take the good stuff that helped me from it?  Well.....that's all anyone can do after awful experiences I think.  Lucky for me that time.  Lucky for him too, I think.
 
 
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Gotta dash but just wanted to say a big hi to Brigid, and thanks for all the encouragement!

 
Hey 2cents!  I think I complimented and congratulated another 2cents on another thread re getting control "of my own anger".  Sorry about that!  I'm a bit confused. :?   I think there might be 2 2cents posting?  

Anyway.......I'm so glad you'll be starting therapy on Monday!  Good for you!  Best of luck!  Congratulations on your decision and on taking a big step to help yourself.   Good for you for being brave!

Have a great week end (((((all)))))!!!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Butterfly on June 10, 2005, 06:29:04 PM
2Cents wrote:
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One time I was out with my xbf and she'd raged at her own bf and he said he wasn't coming over, so she called me and siad she'd tried cutting her wrists. I rushed over there on the last subway, only to find that her bf had gotten there 5 mins before me, and now she needed to "talk" to him and so I should go to my room like a little child!


Oh, 2cents!  I'm sorry that you had to go thru such a demeaning experience.  She did a terrible thing to you. :x  She wanted to make herself feel big by making you feel small.  How manipulating!  I'm glad you broke free from her spell.

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I'm starting therapy (AGAIN!) on Monday but this time I think I'm finally in a place where I can begin the real work of confronting certain things and letting them go once and for all.


I think that's great.  Good for you!  I think therapy would also do me some good...who knows when that will happen. :roll:

GFN wrote:
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"I feel guilty ......" is rather, "I regret that I did such and such..." These words, for me, give me less shame and seem to express more realistic, less beatmyselfuppish, more specific feeling about my action, rather than myself. Guilt can be so hard to pin down but regret just clarifies exactly what was done. Does that make any sense? It's hard to explain. Try it next time you're feeling guilty.....ask yourself what you are feeling guilty about, why, what exactly did you do, try to get away from thinking derogatory things about you....locate what you did...and then put it into a sentence......I regret that I blanked. Maybe it will help you too???


Thanks, GFN!  I think this is a great technique to redirect my guilt/shame thoughts.

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I broke his hold in a split second, backing away and roaring, like a wild, crazed animal!! Spittle flying!! Inside I told myself "Ignor the fear, use the anger" and outside, I let loose the most horrific stream of swear words entangled in logical, assertive direction ever known to humankind --telling him exactly what I was going to do to him if he took one step toward me, that I was a deadly weapon, that he was the one going to die if he had the guts......


You go, girlfriend with your bad self :lol:  I'M A WOMAN, HEAR ME ROAR!!! :twisted:   Sorry, I couldn't pass up on the opportunity :D

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2005, 08:06:07 AM
Happy Saturday!

I just had a few minutes this morning so I thought I'd pop in.

Hey Butterfly:

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I'M A WOMAN, HEAR ME ROAR!!!


Not a very pretty sight, I'm afraid.  Ya.  My "bad self". :evil:
Thanks for really and cheering for me!

I've read some of your posts on other threads and I just want to say:

(((((((((((((((((((((Butterfly))))))))))))))))))))))

God Bless you!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Butterfly as guest on June 12, 2005, 02:12:51 PM
Thanks for thinking of me, GFN.  You made my day a little sweeter. :)  

I do wonder what you thought of my posts, though.  This is just my curiosity talking.  No need to elaborate on it.  Sometimes I do wonder how my words sound to others :roll:   Whether they are outlandish, make no sense at all, crazy, or something else.

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on June 12, 2005, 05:12:59 PM
Hey Butterfly,

Thanks for your sympathy and encouragement. It means a lot. It was a VERY demeaning experience at a real low point in my life, but it's effects are getting less, and talking about it helps.

GFN,

I never mourned my mother because I wasn't able to. I was a teenager when she died and I'd moved to another country 2 years before that and I had no real support, so I couldn't mourn such a huge loss. I'd wake up thinking "School. Homework. Hospital....Oh. No hospital. She's not there anymore." The physical/ psychological loss was already too huge. The last time I saw her in the hospital she looked like she was sleeping. Like you just wake her up, but of course you couldn't. At least she was at peace. So peaceful. Like she was sleeping.

The emotional loss has never been processed. I went from total nerd at school to charity case. School was always my place - I was good at school, but a "nerd" as a result. It was my only social outlet. I hated being a charity case, so I blocked it. My father had totally fallen apart, so here I was at the cusp of my adult life with no mother, no father, no family that I knew/ could rely on, and the rest of my life to deal with. Alone.

I felt scared, and overwhelmed, and guilty for living. I felt in shock, and numb. I felt mad at my 'friends' for going on about Corey Haim and Corey Feldman (whom I'd never heard of cause I come from a third world country) and make-up and boys when MY world had just fallen irrevocably apart forever. I heard the word 'love' a lot, but I knew it wasn't real. The people around me were just glad it hadn't happened to them, and their insensitivity and shallowness just tore me apart.

Since I lost my mother I haven't had the energy to get upset about 'small' things, like whether someone remembers MY birthday - who am I anyway? I hated people who said I was cold and distant because I didn't get them the right present. I lived in a strange country with a strange language and no help. Hell I was still trying to get over losing my home when she died. I lived in a pigsty of a house. I tried to keep it clean but no one helped me. I was MAD GFN, but I couldn't even afford the luxury of mourning.

And then I get people like the woman I mentioned taking the proverbial and taunting me with my fear of conflict and threatening suicide when she knows I've lost my mother and I would DO ANYTHING to avaoid another death. I'm afraid to say I turned away from life and the good things it had to offer because my sense of self was just too fragile to handle it. Seven years ago i needed to step off the world, press pause, and as usual the world has not waited for me to catch up.

I felt cheated and incomplete GFN. Lost and wrong. Voiceless and inadequate. Irrelevant and unreal. I still feel all those things. Maybe now, as I speak, even obliquely, it's my turn now?
Title: Anything
Post by: butterfly guesting on June 12, 2005, 05:58:14 PM
2cents wrote:
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I come from a third world country

I also came from a third world country.  Just curious, what country are you originally from?  No need to share if you don't want to.  

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I lived in a strange country with a strange language and no help.

Boy, 2cents, I can relate so much to what you said.  I remember my first experience in school being a new kid from another country.  It was a very frightening and frustrating experience for me.  The hardest thing for me was not getting the emotional support I needed.

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I felt cheated and incomplete GFN. Lost and wrong. Voiceless and inadequate. Irrelevant and unreal. I still feel all those things. I felt cheated and incomplete GFN. Lost and wrong. Voiceless and inadequate. Irrelevant and unreal. I still feel all those things.


Can I ask you this, what do you mean by you feeling "unreal"?

Life is so unfair.  That's for sure.  The good news is, we don't have to end the last chapter of our lives with what we started out with.  And I bet, you have many more chapters of your life to write.  I'm glad that you are finding a safe outlet for your voice, 2cents. :)  

Inch by inch, it's a cinch.  Yard by yard, it's hard.

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on June 13, 2005, 03:09:04 AM
Butterfly,

I felt 'unreal' because I'd lost my home too, in Africa, which had always been my great love. I walked around trying to get used to this concrete jungle, and felt like I'd been rejected by the earth. I literally felt that I couldn't even leave a footprint on this place, let alone have an impacy on anything. Maybe I was dissociative then (I am now) but I couldn't say for sure. I've never been able to settle down or feel at home, or make a home.

I feel like my (already complicated) sense of identity as a woman is severly inadequate. I feel like I have to please people (like 'suicide' lady) or I will be rejected. I guess I feel like I don't know WHO I am let alone how TO BE who I am. I'm afraid of life, afraid of the future and afraid of the past, and at this moment in time I'm - STILL - completely stuck. I'm waiting for the day something just feels right again, just because it is.

Thanks for listening,

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 13, 2005, 09:28:49 AM
Hi everybody!

Butterfly wrote:

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I do wonder what you thought of my posts, though.....Whether they are outlandish, make no sense at all, crazy, or something else.


What I think is that they are littered with wisdom and are written with love and much optimism.  They are wonderful and wrought with beauty.  Like this:

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we don't have to end the last chapter of our lives with what we started out with.

and this:

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Inch by inch, it's a cinch. Yard by yard, it's hard.


I just want to hug you!!  (((((((((((Butterfly))))))))))
Because you are such a sweet person.

Hi 2cents:

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I never mourned my mother...


My guess is that the pain of that massive loss, is sitting somewhere deep inside, and is causing your greatest grief.

You didn't just lose your mother.  You lost your life, as you knew it.   Your dignity, because of the ripple effect it had on your father and circumstances.  You lost the support you needed to adapt to a new country, a new school, etc.  Your mom should have been there for you!!  She should have been there to encourage you to adapt!!  Suddenly, you had to do this all "alone", as you said.

Alone.

Such a little word with such huge meaning.  Some days I'd like to take this word and anniliate it from the world of language!  

Do you believe in a higher power?  A God?  Angels?  Forces of nature?

Such forces are always with you.  Always.  You are never really alone.
It's hard to grasp and remember sometimes, especially at that young age.
(((((((((((((2cents)))))))))))))  You are not alone now.

Even in your relating of this story, you have included a big positive.  You didn't miss it.  You made note of it to us:

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At least she was at peace. So peaceful. Like she was sleeping.


Yes.  That was a good thing,  a good way to see her, much better than many other possibilities and you didn't miss taking note of that!  Good for you!

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The emotional loss has never been processed.


Do you think it needs to be?  I do.
Would you write her a letter and just tell her what you feel and how you felt then?   You may be surprised at the feelings that come out with such an excercise.   It might take many letters to get it all out too.  You don't have to write it here, if you don't feel like it but it might help to try writing to her and really expressing yourself.

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MY world had just fallen irrevocably apart forever.


I'm going to nudge you here a little.  Your world did fall appart and would never be the same but......the forever part?  It doesn't have to stay fallen appart.  You can build it back up, bit by bit.  This doesn't have to last forever.  True, you can't get your mother back, but you can still have a relationship with her.  You can talk to her in  a letter, in your mind, or even out loud.  You can imagine that she issss with you, in spirit and by your side and even believe that...if you choose to.  You can look for and remember the good things about her and appreciate, try to learn from them.   You don't have to stay in this mode forever.   I bet you don't want to?

What would she want you to do?   Wouldn't she want you to go on with your life, enjoy it, make the best of it, build it into something that truly makes you happy?  What would any good mother want?   You can even start out doing stuff to please her, if it's too hard to please yourself.

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I felt scared, and overwhelmed, and guilty for living. I felt in shock, and numb. I felt mad .....
 The people around me were just glad it hadn't happened to them, and their insensitivity and shallowness just tore me apart.
.......I couldn't even afford the luxury of mourning.


You're remembering the feelings really well.  You've put them down neatly.  Other people made things worse for you.  All of this was soooo awful for you and I'm soo sorry that you had to live through it all!  May I ask, what do you mean by:

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tore me apart
?

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I turned away from life and the good things it had to offer because my sense of self was just too fragile to handle it. Seven years ago i needed to step off the world, press pause, and as usual the world has not waited for me to catch up.


I don't really understand this, sorry.  Wouldn't the good things in life....help and be easier to handle than all the rest?  I understand that your sense of self was greatly disrupted, because you had to suddenly...grow up...and live without a mother.  You lost your teenagehood/young adulthood too, right?  Another great loss!  I'm so sorry, 2cents.

Isn't that something that seems surreal, in a way?  No matter what traumas, trials, tribulations we face, the rest of the world just goes on, like a movie tape that just won't quit eh?  We suffer and feel so alone, but the world doesn't notice, and just keeps going.

I read in a book once, about a woman who lost her son, who was in his 20's.  He was in a motor cycle accident.  Gone.  She said she spent nearly 2 years telling everyone she met, strangers in stores, on buses, in the street, everyone, everywhere she went.........:

"My son just died in a motor cycle accident".

People didn't know what to say.  They were shocked.  They looked at her with general sympathy, said they were sorry, but that's where it ended.  They thought she was nuts!  Running around telling the world:

"My son just died in a motor cycle accident".

But it was her way of grieving.  She wanted the world to stop and take notice.  She wanted the happy, smiling faces of people to disappear and feel her pain....know that she was suffereing.  She wanted the shoppers and the bus drivers and the little old men, walking on the street, with their plans and goals and errands to do, to just stop, for a second, and notice that she had lost her son in a motor cycle accident, and most of all take note, that the world would never be the same and that she was hurting.

So I guess, after remembering that, I do understand 2cents, that it would be hard to enjoy.....icecream....at such a time, and I'm so, so sorry for your great losses and for all that you have been suffering.  I have lost people myself and I know that hurt.  It's deep and grinds to the core.  It seems endless and overwhelming.  I can only imagine, a teenage girl having to carry it.   I'm so sorry.

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I felt cheated and incomplete GFN. Lost and wrong. Voiceless and inadequate. Irrelevant and unreal.


It wasn't/isn't fair, 2cents!  Part of us dies with those we love who die.  The world is big and cruel, sometimes, and it's so hard to go along feeling lost and alone.  You are not wrong though!!  You are right to feel such great pain and loss!  It is yours and it is valid!!  And I'm so proud of you for using your voice now, and trying to put this all into words!   You're doing good!!

Neither are you irrelevant.  This feeling is a byproduct of great loss but it isn't accurate.  You are valuable and you are wonderful!!  You matter, 2cents, because you are a good person with so much to share with the world.   You have the potential to make a difference.  You really do.

Unreal.  Feeling unreal.  Like a pretend person.  Not a real person.

This sounds like an escape from the pain.  Maybe it's a way of trying to protect yourself from the pain?  Maybe once that pain is acknowledged and processed, you will feel more real?

Have you ever thought of volunteering for Big Sisters or any agency where you might be a support to other young girls who have lost their mothers??  You have so much empathy for them that you could really be a wonderful support.   Maybe in the future?  It could be so rewarding.

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it's my turn now?


Yes, I think it is your turn now.  Also, I really believe you will turn your life around now.  You have all of it ahead of you and you can deal with this and move forward.  Things don't have to stay the same.  They rarely do.  So my hopes and thoughts and prayers are for you, 2cents, that you will continue to speak and get it out and process it all and learn from it and take the small, good things that you can from it, and move ahead, on to bigger and better things.   Your pain is real but it won't be this stagnating for ever.  Not if you release it.

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on June 14, 2005, 06:05:42 AM
Hey GFN,

Thanks as always for your reply, and for your kindness. It 's helped me shed some more tears - just a few, but real ones.

The people around me did just carry on with their lives or so it seemed, and it's a hard thing to comprehend. Even harder was to deal with the 'condolences' from people whom I hardly knew. I see now that they may have meant it for real, but at the time it seemed confusing and false. What was even harder was that the people who grieved my mother so deeply pretty much disappeared into thin air. No one offered to help. Give guidance. When people would come to visit us at our house they'd avert their eyes from the mess and pretend it wasn't there, and then leave. No one offered to help a 14 year old girl who was practically looking after her father and kid brother on her own!

Growing up I learned to identify myself with 'failing' to keep things together and make things 'normal'. But of course, things weren't normal, and it wasn't my fault.

The 'things' I couldn't enjoy were relationships with people. Approval from others. Connecting with others. On the other hand, if I look closely I think made a lot of bad choices where that's concerned. The 'world' has reached a stable point for me now and I'm trying to put things into perspective, trying to look inside and deal with whatever comes up. I've only just begun to REALLY try this, but it seems I'm getting somewhere.

One thing that I've learned about loss: sometimes we hold on to the pain as a way of staying connected to the loved one. I've done this consciously in my life, and then - consciously - chosen to let go and to move on. In the case of my mother I think I have UNCONSCIOUSLY held on to the pain, so it's much harder to reach, also cause her death was so sudden, and her loss was so profound. But I will let it go.

Feeling unreal definitely has a link to repressing feelings. Just like I don't know how to express anger I don't know how to express pain, so I carry it inside me and 'keep going'. Problem is, for a long time I wasn't 'going' anywhere - just running. Slowing down now thankfully.

Thanks again for listening,

((()))

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 14, 2005, 09:52:38 AM
Dear 2cents:

As long as I am here, I will listen and I'm sure others will too and try to give you questions/ideas/or just a shoulder to cry on, if that's what you need.  You are welcome here, so keep posting.

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it wasn't my fault.


You got it!!  Good for you.  It wasn't your fault.  It wasn't your fault.  It wasn't your fault.  Good point to remember and remind yourself!  So true!

You are good and all of this happened through no fault of yours!  None!

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It 's helped me shed some more tears - just a few, but real ones.


This is probably a good thing too, especially if you have been feeling apathetic/numb.  Sorry to say "glad to hear it" but it is a release, so I'm glad for that.  Sorry for your pain though, 2cents. :(

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I think made a lot of bad choices...


Guess what?  You're not the only one who's ever done that!  Guess what else?  You're not doing that now!  Good for you again!!

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trying to look inside and deal with whatever comes up. I've only just begun to REALLY try this, but it seems I'm getting somewhere.


Great again!  This is something that can be scarey and painful, in itself, but seems necessary, in order to purge the pain.  A good cleaning out, it might be called?  Good for you for being brave and determined!  You will survive and feel better, soon!!

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In the case of my mother I think I have UNCONSCIOUSLY held on to the pain, so it's much harder to reach, also cause her death was so sudden, and her loss was so profound. But I will let it go.


I think this is very true.  As you let go of the pain, please hold onto your mother, your relationship with her, your memories.  Write to her, talk to her, visualize her, remember her and keep those precious moments as her gifts to you.  If I were her, I don't think I would want you to be suffering.  I would want you to be celebrating those memories.  As hard as it is to not wish for more, peace can be gathered from those that you've already had with her.   This may sound a bit silly but who cares?  You were a child.  Your mom died.  You have a right to hold onto the good stuff and to make it something that propells you forward, rather than drags you down!

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Slowing down now thankfully.


Good for you 2cents.  What's the one feeling you have failed to describe, the feeling that I suspect is underneath all the other feelings you've spoken of so far??   The main feeling causing the pain?

Thanks for the hug 2cents.  It felt good!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on June 14, 2005, 10:05:03 AM
2 cents,

I'm so sorry for the experiences you have had to endure thus far.  It seems like way to much for an adolecent to deal with.  I think you never really were able to grieve the loss of your mother since you were just trying survive and keep your family afloat.  Its very sad that your father could not be the parent and help you get through it rather than the other way around.

I don't mean to diminish your pain one bit, but I sometimes look at people who are grieving the loss of a parent and feeling such pain and wish I could have felt some of that pain and sense of loss when my parents died.  I wish I could have had some memories to hold dear and long to have back.  Instead, I felt nothing.  There was no grief, no longing, no sadness.  Just guilt for not feeling any of those things.  

Maybe you can get to the point where you can look back fondly at the time you did have with her and the love she felt for you.  I have faith that you will.  Then the next phase of your life can begin and new relationships can enter your full and complete life.

((((((((2 cents))))))))

Fondly,

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on June 14, 2005, 05:09:42 PM
Hi GFN,

I think the main feeling causing the pain is, strangely enough perhaps, shame. I know there's fear there too, but I feel very ashamed of being who I am. Like I'm not complete, and normal, and I just want to explain it all away. I've felt this way since I was a child - maybe cause my brothers left? It's the first thing that comes out of my mouth when I meet people: an 'explanation' of why I'm so 'wierd', and why my life is such a mess. I blame myself for everything that ever goes wrong. Because of course it's my fault. :?

(((((((GFN))))))


Brigid,

Lovely to hear from you as always. Haven't been able to keep up here as much as I'd like, but I really hope you're doing okay. The thing is, I don't have that many memories of my mother at all, good or bad. She was a strong woman, and she kept us all together, but I can't reach her. Sometimes I'm jealous of people who have their mothers, whatever their relationships with them, because at least they have the person there in the flesh to react to, and at least they know how they feel about them if that makes any sense. My mother is an absence. Sometimes I dream of her, and then I feel a sense of connectedness again. I feel guilt too for not feeling many of the things I 'should' have felt. :? If you don't mind my asking, how old were you when your mother died?

(((((((((((Brigid))))))))))))))))
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on June 14, 2005, 06:55:40 PM
2 cents,
My mother just died in early January (I will be 55 in July).  She had been slowly deteriorating with Alzheimer's for about the last 4-5 years.  My father died about 5 1/2 years ago.  It was only after his death that it became clear that she was having some memory issues and she was diagnosed about 6 months after his death.

By the time he died, I had so much anger toward both of them that it was very difficult for me to have sympathy for her illness or want to be a presence in her life.  Whenever I would call, all I heard about was how wonderful my brother was and how helpful he was, etc., etc.  The fact that he lived near her (I was 350 miles away), had no wife or children or any other responsibilities other than his job, seemed to completely allude her.  She eventually changed her will leaving him 80% of her estate and me 20% and no provision for my children who were her only grandchildren.  

When I discuss my childhood with my T, I'm never quite sure who hurt me more, my mother or father.  Fortunately I had a grandmother who I was very close to and lived nearby most of my childhood.  She was the only adult in my life who ever made me feel special and loved.  I grieved alot when she passed away, but she also lived to be 98 so I knew she had lived a good, long life.

I'm so sorry that you can't remember your mother except occasionally in dreams.  Maybe the memories are buried under the grief you could never express and with healing they will become apparent.  As I have said to you before, you are so wise and insightful for someone so young (you could be my daughter and I would love to have another one  :) ).  I know you are going to get through this.  I'm so glad you are sharing your stories with us now.  I hope it is helping.

Hugs,

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: butterfly guesting on June 14, 2005, 10:04:13 PM
GFN wrote:
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What I think is that they are littered with wisdom and are written with love and much optimism. They are wonderful and wrought with beauty.

Really??  You see those things in my words? :roll: Thanks for seeing something in me that I don't normally see in myself.  Hearing them from you means a lot to me. :)   You're okay in my book. :wink:

Personally, I think you have the of gift of encouragement.  And you do it so beautifully!  Not to mention the other wonderful things about you...to list them all would make me win the trophy of the longest post ever.  I wouldn't want to take that trophy away from you :lol:

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I just want to hug you!!

Ditto!!! :D

2Cents wrote:
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I think the main feeling causing the pain is, strangely enough perhaps, shame.

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Because of course it's my fault.

You have every right to enjoy the goodness and beauty the world has to offer you.  Shame is one of those things that just sucks the life and spirit out of us, doesn't it?  I know what that's like.  I sense that you direct anger towards yourself, not others.  Why not direct that anger towards those who have hurted you, wronged you, took advantage of your kindness?  Why wouldn't you direct that anger towards them instead?  You didn't do anything wrong.  You didn't cause your mom's death, or your brothers and fathers actions, or the situation you found yourself in?  Those things were beyond your control.  So how can anything be your fault?  You didn't allow them to happen.  I'm so sorry if I sound insensitive in anyway.  I really don't mean to.

IMO, anger directed internally is crippling.  Anger directed externally can be empowering.  I hear a lot of anger you direct toward yourself.  Could this be the reason you feel constant shame.  Can you make this change for you, 2Cents?  I believe you have it in you.  Even if you don't feel it.  You can know it is there in you.  Perhaps, it just needs a lot of nurturing and TLC (tender, loving, care)

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I'm waiting for the day something just feels right again, just because it is.

But, this is the day you can start feeling right again.  I don't think tomorrow will ever come.  IMO, the door of opportunity will not open for you unless you take hold of it today.  Sometimes, we just have to kick that door open and claim it for ourselves.  Otherwise, someone else will take what is meant for us.  This is your day, 2Cents.  You can make it happen for you.  I think one of the key factor is learning how to redirect your anger in order to dwart shame.  Easy to say, but hard to do.  I'm still learning.

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Thanks for listening  

Thanks for sharing!!!

Brigid wrote:
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When I discuss my childhood with my T, I'm never quite sure who hurt me more, my mother or father. Fortunately I had a grandmother who I was very close to and lived nearby most of my childhood. She was the only adult in my life who ever made me feel special and loved.


Brigid, I'm very sorry for the pain you had to endure. :(   But, I'm glad you had someone who made you feel special and loved. :)

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I know you are going to get through this. I'm so glad you are sharing your stories with us now. I hope it is helping.

DITTO!!! :)

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on June 15, 2005, 04:09:16 AM
Hi guys,

It is helping me big time! Each post i get a little deeper, and let a little more out...

Brigid,

I'm sorry that your mother treated you the way she did. And her death is still so recent too. I really hope you are okay. My parents both hurt me by making so many huge decisions without considering my feelings, or those of my brothers. I haven't been able to really talk to my father since I was 6 years old. I 'know' he loves me, and I love him too, but to call what we have a relationship is stretching it a bit thin to say the least.  :?

Butterfly,

I hear ya. I really do. I was taught that it was wrong to be angry with an adult, and it crushed my insides because sometimes adults do things that hurt. Then I learned that I couldn't rely on adults (my parents) so I tried to parent myself, and then became angry at my own 'parent'. But you're right - I've got to learn to express the anger to those who wronged me in order to let it go, instead of keeping it all inside. And tomorrow never does come does it? All we have is today.

Thank you thank you thank you,

((((((())))))))

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 15, 2005, 09:46:07 AM
Dear All:

Butterfly:   :oops:  :oops:  :oops: Thankyou.  Too much.

Brigid:  (((((((((((Brigid))))))))))  I'm so sorry your parents treated you so badly and for the pain that caused.  You, on the other hand, are obviously not at all like them and have managed to come out beautifully, in spite of them!!

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She eventually changed her will leaving him 80% of her estate and me 20% and no provision for my children who were her only grandchildren.


I'm so sorry that she even tried to knock you down from her grave!!
Let your brother have 80% of her N money!   Sounds like he has got what he wanted?  That's sad eh? :(

You, on the other hand, have so much more,..... people who love you, and a spirit that won't quit ......and your 20% will probably be enjoyed by more than just you, I bet, and seem like much more.

Praise to the loving, kind Grammas of this world!!!  They are God's gift to children!!

2cents:

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I think the main feeling causing the pain is, strangely enough perhaps, shame. I know there's fear there too, but I feel very ashamed of being who I am. Like I'm not complete, and normal,


I think what I hear you saying is that your mother died (which wasn't happening to other people....so there must be something wrong with you), and your brothers left and you thought it was your fault and so you feel ashamed......a great shame for something you don't know what that is.....why they left......what you did to cause it??
This would be frustrating and make me feel angry too, I think.

It might be true that you have directed your anger toward yourself because it was too difficult or whatever, to explain or to direct it at those who hurt you.  Then, you end up so angry with  yourself that you feel ashamed.   Maybe the fear is a fear of letting the anger out?

I hear you also saying that you don't know how to let that anger out but I'm going to guess that it's not a matter of how but of afraid to???

Ofcourse, once that is done, once that great pile of anger is released, the shame will probably disappear, I bet.

But 2cents........underneath it all, isn't there sadness?
Are you in touch, way down inside, with the terrible despair and sadness that little girl (you) might have experienced??  The horrible grief?  The deep, deep hurt of losing her mommy? :(  :(  :(  :(  :( Of losing her brothers?  Of a dad that wasn't as dad?

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It is helping me big time! Each post i get a little deeper, and let a little more out...


Great!  Keep posting then!  This is the "anything" thread and you can post about anything you want to.  Are you writing those letters?

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I've got to learn to express the anger to those who wronged me in order to let it go, instead of keeping it all inside.


You got it!  You can write....to begin...if it feels less scarey.  Then, maybe talk to a cushion, in a chair, pretending it's the person.....maybe yell...maybe cry???  Even........draw your version (doesn't have to be a Picasso) on paper, of those you want to communicate with,  and rip them to shreds, maybe hug them, maybe?

I had a good one one day.  I yanked out 2 wheel barrel fulls of switch grass.  That stuff should be called N grass!!  It's slithery roots creep every where, just under the surface of the ground, or way down deep, depending on what kind of hold they can manage to get!  The grass looks like thin, harmless, rather graceful stuff until you try to get rid of it, at which point it takes hold like a viper.  You finally get one root coming out, only to find it snaking it's way around all kinds of other plants and you yank and yank and rip up so much soil......and finally.......break a piece off.  But there's lot's more to pull and it seems never ending and it comes back to haunt your garden when you least expect it.

Anyway.......for every yank....tug....pull......I imagined my abuser/s and/or some event that I felt angry about.  As I worked away I would say:  "There goes blank!!  Good riddence!!", when I pulled out a good chunk of the stuff.   I even cursed ( :oops:  :oops: ) some (no one could hear me) and just let a whole wack of it out, at the switch grass, the N grass, at my abuser/s, at events that were giving me anger.  I felt it coming out!  And in the end, where I used to complain and really dispise that switch grass.....I was grateful and I said out loud:  "Thanks God, for switch grass.  I never dreamed I'd say that!"

For me, gardening is very therapeutic.  For you 2cents, you will need to find something that is therapeautic for you, be it some chore, some sport or some creative activity.   I could search the net and give you plenty of ideas on safe, acceptable ways to release anger.

Truly.......I think you might consider doing that for you???  It would be good for you to read it and pick things that you think might work for you.  It might help you ignor your fear of releasing it,  by seeing the information and picking stuff that feels safe and not so scarey for you?

What do you think 2cents?  Does that sound like an idea that might help?
You could even share what you find with the rest of us, if you want to.  I'm sure we would all be very grateful!

I agree with Brigid and you, 2cents about today being the day!
I heard another good one:

"You can spend your money, gamble it away and work hard, maybe get it back later but once you waste your time, it's gone forever."

From the really silly movie:  "Up the creek".

Enjoy today all!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: butterfly guesting on June 15, 2005, 08:26:54 PM
2cents wrote:
Quote
I was taught that it was wrong to be angry with an adult, and it crushed my insides because sometimes adults do things that hurt.

Yeah.  Adults can be hurtful with their words to children, esp. if they think their ways or ideas are always the right way.  It seems like what they taught you was intentionally self-serving to them.  Then again, maybe b/c they were taught that when they were kids themselves.  So the cycle of wrong info was continued by them.

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And tomorrow never does come does it?

I agree with you a 110%.  The concept of tomorrow is an illusion, isn't it?

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Butterfly:    Thankyou. Too much.

I'm sorry, GFN.  Didn't mean to embarrass you. :( Did I go overboard?  But, I meant what I said, though.

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For you 2cents, you will need to find something that is therapeautic for you, be it some chore, some sport or some creative activity.

I think this is a great suggestion.  For me, my form of therapeutic outlet was through keeping a daily journal.  That is where I express all my anger, pain, frustrations, happiness, crazy and not so crazy ideas, etc.  I find that through writing I get my tangled thoughts sorted out.  For me, sometimes, workable ideas are generated through the mere act of writing.  2cents, I hope you will find something that works for you.  Perhaps, the whole idea behind it is to find a medium to translate the intangible into the tangible.  

2cents, I'm going to take the liberty to be straightforward and kinda bold with you.  I hope my words don't come across as negative or anything like that.

I feel that the shame you have is taking away the needed energy from you to focus on moving forward.  It is crippling you.  It will continue to cripple you if nothing is done about it.  But, I believe you can learn to dismantle it one piece at a time.  Yes, the events in your past has knocked you down so hard that they left you partially crippled, psychologically, making it that much harder for you to walk firmly.  But walk you must.  Otherwise, you will not get to where you want to go with your life.  Figuratively speaking, where do you want to go, 2cents?  At some point in your life, you got to say to your crutches, "I don't need you anymore."  Put them to the side.  Let go of them.   And start walking on your own two feet.  Sure, taking each step without something to lean on is very scary and painful.  It will require all of your energy and commitment and passion.  But, surely, each step you take will make you a little stronger.

I think crutches are useful when they are used as a temporary aide.  But when they are depended upon for too long, they can actually work against us.

Have you ever seen a cripple person in rehabilitation working up the nerves to walk again?  It is so painful to see them take those little baby steps without having anything to lean on.  But it is so amazing to see them progress with every effort.  I know for that person, every painful step they had to endure was all worth it.

As bazaar as it may sound, I believe, shame can be used as a crutch.  How so?  Because it keeps you crippled.  It keeps you weak.   Sure, it may feel safer to lean on it than to confront it and disassociate with it.  But, you are bigger than your shame.  Confront it.  Show it who is boss.  Never let it be bigger than you. Never let it overpower you.  Wrestle with it, if you must.

Live boldly, 2cents.  Can you afford to live any other way?  You already know how living another way has robbed you of so much happiness.  It kinda left you feeling broke, didn't it?  The good news is, you can reclaim it, today.  You can start making deposits into your life's account.  How about starting off little, and see how your investment will grow for you.  You will be amazed.

I'm cheering you on.  Because I know you have it in you to get to where you want to go in your life.  Yes, I agree, it's important to embrace pain, and to give it voice.  But, don't lean on it for too long, less it becomes a crutch.

P.S.  I hope I don't come across as an imposter.  I guess what I'm writing is merely a reflection of my own thoughts and what has helped me.  In a real sense, we are phantom strangers.  And I don't know if what I said made any sense to you or is useful at all. But, all I know is what it is like to experience deep emotional pain.  

Thinking of you and praying for you.

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on June 15, 2005, 09:00:42 PM
Hi all,

GFN,

You're right. I'm not in touch with my sadness. I'm seeing a therapist again (since yesterday) but I remember when I first went into therapy for depression my t told me that there is a function parents (and especially mothers) perform for their children called 'holding'. A mother 'holds' the world in place as it were for her child, and as the child grows s/he learns to become independent because s/he has a notion of the world as a safe place. Of ocurse their are dangers in the world, but the child learns that there is also a place of safety. What I was doing was 'holding' the world for myself until it was 'safe' (i.e. I reached adulthood) to let go. Only problem is, once I reached adulthood I was too scared to let go even though - in survival terms - I had 'made it'. :?

I gotta go through the pain to let it go, right? The switch grass equation? (Maybe you wanna copyright that one - great story! :D )

Butterfly,

You said it. I do actually know someone who is learning to walk again from being in a wheelchair, and although I don't know him very well his attitude and his progress are amazing. What you said in your last post about shame as a crutch and not leaning on it is a huge encouragement. And you know something? What you said about today being the day is true. I'm gonna remind myself of that everyday, long and often. Thanks again,


((((((all)))))))
Title: Anything
Post by: longtire on June 16, 2005, 10:35:07 AM
Quote from: 2cents
A mother 'holds' the world in place as it were for her child, and as the child grows s/he learns to become independent because s/he has a notion of the world as a safe place. Of ocurse their are dangers in the world, but the child learns that there is also a place of safety. What I was doing was 'holding' the world for myself until it was 'safe' (i.e. I reached adulthood) to let go. Only problem is, once I reached adulthood I was too scared to let go even though - in survival terms - I had 'made it'. :?


2cents, I had parents who did not do this "holding" for me growing up.  They didn't know how, even for themselves.  It has taken a lot of work and faith to step out of holding onto the idea that there was something wrong with me.  That has been very stable for many years, but has obvious downsides. :( Sometimes I worry that others will see my tagline and think that I am N. :) When I worry about that I just remind myself of all the tiny steps over all the years that I had to take to get to this point.  I still fight the idea every day that the world is a scary, dangerous place.  There are dangers, but there is a lot more good stuff out in the world and the only way to get it is to live without shame and fear.
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on June 16, 2005, 12:30:13 PM
Hey Longtire,

Nice to hear from you!

I've kept up to date with your progress and you're definitely taking giant strides!

Something Bunny said on another thread got me thinking - about just exactly what 'transference' might mean... I'm thinking I've just never really felt safe enough to transfer  my fear onto another person - REALLY transfer it - and then TRUST that person to be there while I go through the process. Scary thought, but I'm really proud I'm even remotely able to approach it on a cognitive level now. In the past I just never got it.

(((((longtire))))))

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: Butterfly guesting on June 17, 2005, 12:02:30 AM
Hello y'all :)

2cents,

I'm really glad that I was able to be an encouragement to you.  Actually, your feedback was very uplifting to me today.  As a matter of fact, it was the only uplifting words I've received all day.  Thanks so much!  After the doctor told me on the phone this morning that my mother is not able to have her pancreatic cancer operated on, my heart became very heavy.  Without surgery, her survival is very short.  Having to tell her of this news will be so difficult.  But, I'm really glad that she will have all her kids by her side to cushion the blow somewhat.  Anyway, I just want to say thanks again for your kind words.  It sounds like you are doing better.  That's encouraging. :D

Take care,
Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: October on June 17, 2005, 05:47:36 AM
Quote from: Butterfly guesting
Hello y'all :)

After the doctor told me on the phone this morning that my mother is not able to have her pancreatic cancer operated on, my heart became very heavy.  Without surgery, her survival is very short.  Having to tell her of this news will be so difficult.  But, I'm really glad that she will have all her kids by her side to cushion the blow somewhat.  
Butterfly


I am very sorry about your mother.   :(   I am glad you can all be there for her to help her, and one another.
Title: Anything
Post by: Butterfly on June 17, 2005, 10:12:32 AM
October,

Thank you!  Today will be the day to break the news to her.  I hear of death all the time.  But, not until it hits home does it  become real and raw.  I've never had to face the prospect of death of someone close to me til now.  Before the reality of my mother's grave condition had set in, I honestly didn't know how I will feel toward losing her.  Now, the hardest and most agonizing part is having to see her suffer.  I just pray that her suffering will be short.  

Thank you again for your sympathy, October.  It means alot to me.

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on June 17, 2005, 10:13:56 AM
Butterfly,
I'm so sorry to hear of your mother's diagnosis.  It is wonderful you can all support one another through a very difficult time.

((((((Butterfly)))))))))

God bless,

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 17, 2005, 10:29:56 AM
Dear Butterfly:

I'm very, very, sorry to hear about your mother's condition and that it can't be treated.  ((((((((((((((((Butterfly))))))))))))))))).
My prayers will be that she will not suffer/be kept comfortable and that you will not suffer too much either. :(  :(  :(   Also that her passing will be peaceful.  This is a very difficult time for your family.  I'm so sorry. :(

Are your sibblings and you close?  I hope so.  I hope you will support eachother, as that will help.  You will get through this, regardless Butterfly!    Please take care of you too.

My thoughts and prayers are for you and your family Butterfly.
I wish there were more I could do or that I could ease the pain somehow.



Hiya 2cents:

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you are bigger than your shame. Confront it. Show it who is boss. Never let it be bigger than you. Never let it overpower you. Wrestle with it, if you must.


This is powerful stuff Butterfly wrote.  It makes sense to me too.

For me, shame is very similar/usually connected with guilt.  I try to put it into that same regret form by making it into a sentence listing an action.

"I feel ashamed because I did blank".

Then I can reword it, once more and say:

"I regret that I did blank".

If I can't find something I did, some action, that is causing my shame, then that might be a clue that I'm blaming myself for stuff that isn't mine.

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You're right. I'm not in touch with my sadness.


I'm glad you started seeing the therapist and hopefully he/she will help you to get in touch with this deep emotion.  My bet it that it is sitting in there, at the root of your pain, the core.   It just seems so logical that the huge losses you withstood as a child needed to be grieved thoroughly.  You said that didn't really happen.   Finding and then releasing that sadness might be your ticket to healing???  It just seems like a very heavy weight for any child to be carrying around, for such a long time.

I had a friend and her mother used to always say:  "There's a little child in all of us that never grows up!"

My friend's mom nurtured the child parts of people and made it seem ok to do that.  It is ok ya know.  The child in you is still there, just older now.  That child needs to be loved and nurtured and my bet is.....allowed to grieve the loss of her mom.   That child did nothing to deserve such loss.  That child will feel much better, I bet, once she is acknowledged and allowed a voice and a chance to really express her feelings.

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What I was doing was 'holding' the world for myself until it was 'safe' (i.e. I reached adulthood) to let go. Only problem is, once I reached adulthood I was too scared to let go even though - in survival terms - I had 'made it'.


This makes complete sense.  What happened re that therapist?  Why did the therapy end?  (if you feel comfy answering....if not, no problem).

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I gotta go through the pain to let it go, right?


It almost sounds like a chore, doesn't it?  I think it's just buried deep inside where it feels safe, maybe?  The little girl (you) had no one to soothe her in her grief (((((((((little 2cents))))))))).  She felt so alone and maybe afraid?  Maybe, it will be a safer time soon to grieve?  Maybe the therapist will help make if feel safe?  Maybe the board will help it feel safe?  Maybe it's not really work to find and go through the pain but more of a feeling of comfort thingy?  If you feel relaxed and safe, maybe it will come out easier and you can release all that grief and sadness, a little at a time (if need be), then even the anger, if there is any left.  If you feel like you are in a place where you don't feel so alone and unsafe, it might not be such a chore at all?  Maybe the T and your friends here will help to "hold" the world for you, while you release your grief?

I hope so, 2cents.

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The switch grass equation? (Maybe you wanna copyright that one - great story!


Thanks 2cents, for the compliment.  I love the title:  "The switch grass equation" !!  Sounds like "The French Connection" or some equally mysterious spy-like story title eh?    :D  :D  

Thing is.....there is no real mystery.  It's a matter of taking some boring, mundane, energy requiring household task and turning it into an emotion releasing excercise.  Not tricky really.  It's just something many of us might not think to do but once you try it, you might find it a great way to get tasks done while doing a bit of purging.  Works for me, anyhow.  
   
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I'm thinking I've just never really felt safe enough to transfer my fear onto another person - REALLY transfer it - and then TRUST that person to be there while I go through the process. Scary thought, but I'm really proud I'm even remotely able to approach it on a cognitive level now. In the past I just never got it.


Good for you 2cents!  I guess I was sort of saying something similar above there.  You can think of it as transfering or simply releasing the pain.  Getting it out is what matters eh?  You'll get to the next level!  I know you will!!  



Hey there Longtire!  Good to see you posting here!

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 Sometimes I worry that others will see my tagline and think that I am N.  When I worry about that I just remind myself of all the tiny steps over all the years that I had to take to get to this point.


Good for you Longtire!  One of the toughest things to do sometimes is to stop worrying about what other people "think" (because we'll never really know anyway) and start concentrating on what feels right, good and healthy for us!  Your tag line says all that to me!  Congratulations on ignoring the fear and using a tag line of your choice!  There is absolutely no shame in that!!  Only a sense of expressing self!  Good for you!

Hope everyone has a peaceful day!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on June 17, 2005, 12:43:07 PM
Dear Butterfly,

I'm so sorry to hear about your mother. You are all in my thoughts,

((((()))))

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on June 17, 2005, 12:44:46 PM
Hey all,

My pc is on the blink so I may be absent for a little while, but you are all in my thoughts,

((((all))))

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: Lara on June 17, 2005, 02:23:29 PM
Dear Butterfly,
I'm sorry you've had such sad news about your mother. Both my parents had similar illnesses to your mother's, and there's no doubt that the time ahead will be tough for all of you, but also perhaps it will be an opportunity for showing love in a practical way, to the members of the family who you are close to.
I hope it will help you a little, to know that people here will be thinking of you everyday, and will be happy to 'listen' if you want to share how you are feeling.

Much love,
Lara.
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on June 17, 2005, 04:38:08 PM
Butterfly, I will add my voice to the prayers for you and your dear mother. Bless you.
Title: Anything
Post by: Guesting on June 18, 2005, 09:37:36 AM
I'm sorry for your sadness. :(
Title: Anything
Post by: Plucky Guest2 on June 18, 2005, 10:38:54 PM
Quote
Today will be the day to break the news to her. I hear of death all the time. But, not until it hits home does it become real and raw. I've never had to face the prospect of death of someone close to me til now.


How did that go, butterfly?  Are you alright?
Title: Anything
Post by: Butterfly guesting on June 19, 2005, 04:55:37 PM
Hi PluckyGuest2 :)

I've decided to post a reply to your question on another thread, "Mother has the "C" word."  Since the preceding topic to my situation hasn't come to closure yet, I didn't want to divert attention from it.

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 20, 2005, 08:40:34 AM
Hi all:

 
Quote
Since the preceding topic to my situation hasn't come to closure yet, I didn't want to divert attention from it.


No worries, Butterfly.  Talk here too, if you want to.

2cents wrote that her pc is on the blink.  Sorry to hear that 2cents!
What a pain eh?  Hope it isn't too serious/gets fixed soon!  I was glad last time, when it seemed like mine was done like dinner and it ended up only being the telephone line!

Did I post this one yet (coming up)??  Age is taking it's tole on my memory, I gotta tell ya.  If I did, I appologize for the repeat.



Life's Lessons

1. You will receive a body. You may like it, or hate it, but it will be yours for the entire period this time around.

2. You will learn lessons. You are enrolled in a full time informal school called life. Each day in this school you have the opportunity to learn lessons. You may like the lessons or think they are irrelevant and stupid.

3. There are no mistakes, only lessons. Growth is a process of trial and error and experimentation. The ”failed” experiments are as much a part of the process as the experiment that ultimately ”works”.

4. A lesson is repeated until learned… A lesson will be presented to you in various forms until you have learned it. When you have learned it, you can go to the next lesson. Periodically, the lesson will be re- presented to see if you still remember it.

5. Learning lessons does not end. There is no part of life that does not contain its lessons. If you are alive, there are lessons to be learned. If no lessons is being presented, it is likely that you are no longer alive.

6. ”There” is no better than ”here”. When your ”there” has become a ”here”, you will simply acquire another ”there”. That will again look better than ”here”.

7. Others are simply mirrors of you. You  will not love or hate something about another person unless it reflects something you love or hate about yourself.

8. What you make of your life is up to you. You have all the tools and resources you need. What you make of them is up to you; the choice is yours.

9. Your answers lie inside you. The answers to life’s questions lie inside you. All you have to do is look, listen and trust.

10. You will forget all this. That fact is itself a lesson.

~author unknown~


Hope your day is a good one! :D

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mum as guest on June 20, 2005, 11:19:39 AM
Thanks, GFN for the great "list"!!!!
Title: Anything
Post by: 2cents on June 20, 2005, 01:36:10 PM
Ditto what mum said GFN! PC still on the blink so am at the library (I love libraries!) Therapist (state therapist -  think NHS for comparison) has to "talk things over" with her colleaugue about whether or not I should start therapy.  :? I'm just glad I've still got my hypnotherapist cause he actually cares...

Love to all,

2cents
Title: Anything
Post by: butterfly guesting on June 21, 2005, 12:02:27 AM
Quote
Your answers lie inside you. The answers to life’s questions lie inside you. All you have to do is look, listen and trust.

That's a good reminder for me.   Thanks for posting it, GFN :)

Quote
I'm just glad I've still got my hypnotherapist cause he actually cares...

I'm glad for you too, 2cents. :)   A hypnotherapist, eh?  That sounds very fascinating stuff.  I've never had exposure to professional help before, so going to see a therapist, a hypnotherapist, a psychotherapist, etc. all sound very interesting to me. :roll:

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: guesting again on June 21, 2005, 12:51:20 AM
Quote
shame can be used as a crutch. How so? Because it keeps you crippled. It keeps you weak. Sure, it may feel safer to lean on it than to confront it and disassociate with it.


Lately, I've been thinking a lot about shame, and I can't help but refer back to what I thought of shame at the time I wrote the above statement.  I want to explore this concept in a broader sense.  I wonder if shame is a mindset or feeling that can or needs to be disposed of??  It seems to make perfect sense to respond to this question with an affirmative answer  But, upon further examination in a different light, I think shame can be thought of as a feeling just like happiness, anger or sadness.  Shame is the effect not the cause.  Instead of trying to discard of shame as an unwanted enemy of growth, perhaps, it can be valued as an ally.  Probably, it is more logical to compare shame to the feeling of hunger.  When we are hungry, it is telling us that our body needs food.  In the same way, when we feel shame, it is telling us we need psychological food at that particular moment.  And if we don't feed it, we will be malnourished psychologically.  For example, I may feel ashame of myself for wanting approval of my physical appearance from others.  That feeling of shame is letting me know that I have a basic need to receive approval and I need to satisfy it somehow.  If I listen to my shame, I would be aware of this need and tell myself its okay to want approval, b/c this is what I need to feel whole.  Besides everyone needs approval.  The role of shame is to make me aware of the very need for which I feel shameful of.  Just like hunger makes me aware of my need for food.  If I don't listen to my hunger, I will suffer adverse effects from not eating.  The feeling of hunger will disappear once I feed myself.  In the same way, shame will disappear once I feed myself of the very thing I feel shameful of.  So in a real sense, shame can be used as an ally.  It needs not be crutch at all.

My thoughts continue to evolve.  Does anyone have a different perspective on this whole concept of shame or anything else to that effect?  Do I make any sense to anyone, if not I would be interested to hear your take on it.

Butterfly
Title: Shame
Post by: Plucky G2 on June 21, 2005, 12:57:02 AM
Having experiences much shame, I think of it as allowing someone else to decide for us what is right.  If we decide, we have no shame because we are in tune with what we think.  If someone else judges us, we can have a mismatch between what we do and what is approved by the Other.
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 21, 2005, 09:12:52 AM
Hello all:

Hey Mum!  Thank you.......for the hairy sum up story.  That's a great one!  (((((Mum))))

Butterfly:  What a great thinker you are!  What you say makes a lot of sense to me except I might use the word guilt, rather than shame.

Only because of something I heard once that seems to fit which is:

Guilt is what we feel.
Shame is what other people put on us.

I don't know if this is true for all but it makes sense to me.  So I would add that if it is shame that we are feeling....then we need to examine the need/s.....or rather try to guess the need/s of the person putting the shame on us.  

I guess this is similar to what you wrote eh Plucky?

I have a hard time with shame and shaming in that it almost seems like an attempt to control.

"You should be ashamed of yourself!"  

When someone says this my sirens go right off the deep end!  I want to respond........"I'm ok with myself and I won't take your gift of shame!"
I don't always have the courage to say that though. :oops:

Maybe I have said or done something shameful...that I feel guilty about?
If so, an empathetic person, who cares, would want to know how I feel, if I'm ok, if I've been thinking about my words/actions?   Maybe help me learn from the experience.  Anyone who cares will not have a desire (so it seems) to try to make me feel worse (is my best bet)...to control my emotional state.

So....I don't really give a hoot what those who don't care about me think or say.....that seems intended to cause me to feel worse about myself!  Intention counts in my book...quite some.

What if I've said or done something shameful.....and I don't realize it?
If so, an empathetic person, who cares, would want to help me realize it but not by trying to make me feel bad about myself.   Anyone who cares will have a desire (I suspect) to try to point out my poor choice without blaming or shaming me.  They wouldn't use those "You should..." words above.  They might ask me how I feel, or state how they might feel, in such a case.

Anyone else....intent on putting shame on me.....gives me the creeps.  I tune into their power hunger and wonder what's eating them that they have such a need to put me down?

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on June 21, 2005, 09:29:46 AM
Butterfly,
I'm still processing what you wrote, but my gut instinct is that shame is something that keeps you from fixing the problem rather than providing an impetous to do so.  I know that shame is at the root of my nxh's problems and why he will probably never seek help or find healing.  He keeps that shame buried so deep within him and will not let anyone near it.  For a brief time when he was ending the marriage and wanted to get me to hate him enough to throw him out, he exposed that shame.  I learned the truth that he had worked decades to hide.  It's very sad really and I would have been willing to help him, but of course, he didn't want that.  His entire reasoning for exposing it to me was he assumed it would push me off the edge and force me to make the decision that he did not want to make.  When that plot failed he had no choice but to leave on his own.  He has since sealed the shame back in its cage and denies its existance once again.  This is a cycle he is destined to repeat for the rest of his life.

I certainly have my own shame as well.  But I don't see it as being useful.  Quite the opposite in most cases.  It tends to keep me down on myself and dwelling on negative things I have done, rather than inspiring me to make better decisions.  I also know that some shame I carry is not warranted, but I haven't figured out how to put it in its proper place.  

I see shame as being the opposite of pride.  For me, having pride in something I have done is very useful toward my healing process.  Feeling shameful about something I have done has proved to be very detrimental to my healing process.  Just my 2 cents.

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: Plucky G2 on June 21, 2005, 05:28:19 PM
jophil wrote:
Quote
Anyways, she said,"I am willing to help you but you go dancing too much and if I lend you the money I EXPECT you to cut back to two nights a week. Your brother says that two is plenty". I am 54 years old.


I'm sorry but this is hilarious!  How did you respond?  I have to say that when I visit my mom, she wants to determine my bedtime!  I am in my 40s. married for the 2nd time, with 2 kids!

PS I imported this from another old thread.  Carry on with the shame discussion.  No response required.

Plucky G2
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2005, 05:35:06 AM
Quote from: Anonymous
Hello all:


What if I've said or done something shameful.....and I don't realize it?
If so, an empathetic person, who cares, would want to help me realize it but not by trying to make me feel bad about myself.   Anyone who cares will have a desire (I suspect) to try to point out my poor choice without blaming or shaming me.  They wouldn't use those "You should..." words above.  They might ask me how I feel, or state how they might feel, in such a case.

Anyone else....intent on putting shame on me.....gives me the creeps.  I tune into their power hunger and wonder what's eating them that they have such a need to put me down?
GFN


Thanks for sharing these thoughts of yours here GFN. I really needed to read something like this after tonight at work :cry:  and your words here penetrated and I feel just so much better now  :D . Suddenly I had a reality check and a context to put it all in. So I can go to work tomorrow without a problem or grudge. You reminded me that it's actually their problem, not mine. That's great and I'm thankful. Thankyou.
((GFN))
Guest for Today
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2005, 09:06:56 AM
Hi everyone:

Brigid wrote:

Quote
shame is something that keeps you from fixing the problem rather than providing an impetous to do so.


and
Quote
I see shame as being the opposite of pride. For me, having pride in something I have done is very useful toward my healing process. Feeling shameful about something I have done has proved to be very detrimental to my healing process.


If shame is something, in this case, that you feel guilty for....something you have done that you feel ashamed of......that you regret....the only way to heal from it is to learn from it, imo.  These are questions we might all ask ourselves when we are feeling shameful:

What caused me to do it?
What could I have done differently?
What might I do if the same situation presents itself in future?
Will I look at the experience as a disappointment, rather than a disgrace?
Will I have faith in myself not to repeat the behavior?
What do I need to help I build that faith, if I think you might do the same thing again?
Do I feel unworthy?  Need help in that department?
Am I condemning myself or is someone else?
Am I looking at something factual that I actually did or am I just experiencing a feeling, with no real examination of my actions?
Am I taking responsibility for/owning the fault of what I actually did?
Am I remorseful and aware of what I actually, factually did wrong?
Do I feel distressed about I behaviour?
Will I remember my behaviour with sorrow and let that help me not to repeat it? (rather than just carrying around a feeling of shame/guilt/blame for infinity...with no use or end).
Have I mourned the loss...the disappointment...grieved for it?
What have I learned from this experience?

Looking at the different definitions:

Shame:

Quote
A painful emotion caused by a strong sense of guilt, embarrassment, unworthiness, or disgrace.
Capacity for such a feeling: Have you no shame?

One that brings dishonor, disgrace, or condemnation.

A condition of disgrace or dishonor; ignominy.

A great disappointment.


Guilt:

Quote
The fact of being responsible for the commission of an offense. See Synonyms at blame.

Law Culpability for a crime or lesser breach of regulations that carries a legal penalty.

Remorseful awareness of having done something wrong.
Self-reproach for supposed inadequacy or wrongdoing.

Guilty conduct; sin.


Blame:

Quote
To hold responsible.

To find fault with; censure.

To place responsibility for (something):


Regret:

Quote
To feel sorry, disappointed, or distressed about.

To remember with a feeling of loss or sorrow; mourn.


Maybe you can think of more questions to ask when you are feeling shamed?  In this way, maybe the good use of the shame will end up being the looking and learning of the whole event?  This could take some of the pain of the experience and put it into perspective...make it a friend that teaches rather than a foe that harms.

Just my thoughts this lovely June morning!

PS:  Plucky!

Quote
I have to say that when I visit my mom, she wants to determine my bedtime! I am in my 40s. married for the 2nd time, with 2 kids!


Really???  Holey Moley!  She thinks you're a toddler eh?  Do you laugh hysterically?  Stay up extra late?  Too funny!   I might be tempted to do that!  Still shaking my head.   :D

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2005, 09:08:58 AM
Need mooooore coffffffeeeee!

Quote
What do I need to help I build that faith, if I think you might do the same thing again?


Correction:

What do I need to help me build tha fairth, if I think I might do the same thing again?

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2005, 09:13:48 AM
Quote
fairth


Laughing like a loonie! :D

(trying not to leave any open loops for Muddyboy!)

Have fairth in yurslef!!  Yar cun duit!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2005, 10:05:42 AM
Hi again:

Quote
Thanks for sharing these thoughts of yours here GFN. I really needed to read something like this after tonight at work  and your words here penetrated and I feel just so much better now  . Suddenly I had a reality check and a context to put it all in. So I can go to work tomorrow without a problem or grudge. You reminded me that it's actually their problem, not mine. That's great and I'm thankful. Thankyou.
((GFN))
Guest for Today


Are you the same person as Guest in for today (Gift)?  If so, I thanked you, in the "I need help managing my anger" thread for the hug, thankyou again for that.  If not, thankyou for the first time and what the heck...thanks twice! :D  :D

((((Guest for Today)))) I'm sorry that work has been giving you grief but glad that I was able to help somehow.   Also...that the people at work sound like they are trying to place shame on you for something that is actually their problem.  Dorks!

Good for you for recognizing this (if I am close here) and for not holding a grudge either!  Resenting people who don't have a clue is another waste of time, imo (not that I haven't done it myself....I have...but once I realize it's a waste of time...I've been lucky enough to just forget it or at least...remind myself that I'm wasting my time until I decide to forget it).

 :roll: Like picking petals off a daisy....he/she shamed me, he/she shamed me not, he/she shamed me, he/she shamed me not....

Same waste of time.  Have a great day all!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: longtire on June 22, 2005, 10:09:31 AM
Quote from: GFN
Quote
Have fairth in yurslef!!  Yar cun duit!

GFN, I didn't realize you were scottish!  :wink:
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2005, 10:14:56 AM
Hiya Long:

Quote
GFN, I didn't realize you were scottish!


Neither did I!!!  Learning stuff about myself everyday!!

(some of it reeeeeeeeeel cunfusing :?  :shock: ).

 :D
GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2005, 10:16:25 AM
What's a slef? :?  :shock:

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 22, 2005, 11:06:53 PM
GFN wrote:
Quote
Guilt is what we feel.
Shame is what other people put on us.


Quote
Maybe I have said or done something shameful...that I feel guilty about?


I think I see what you mean.  So what you are saying is that, you see guilt as intrinsic, and shame as extrinsic.  That's interesting, b/c I see it quite the opposite from you.  I see shame and guilt as both intrinsic emotions.  However, the source of the feeling is different.  As I understand it, we feel guilty when we commit an infraction against somebody else.  However, we feel shame when we commit an infraction against ourselves.  For argument sake, I would feel guilt if I stole money from work.  However, I would feel shame if I did something to devalue myself.

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 23, 2005, 12:16:25 AM
Brigid wrote:
Quote
I certainly have my own shame as well. But I don't see it as being useful. Quite the opposite in most cases. It tends to keep me down on myself and dwelling on negative things I have done, rather than inspiring me to make better decisions. I also know that some shame I carry is not warranted, but I haven't figured out how to put it in its proper place.

I see shame as being the opposite of pride. For me, having pride in something I have done is very useful toward my healing process. Feeling shameful about something I have done has proved to be very detrimental to my healing process.

Brigid, I hear ya.  I think you have a good point.  What you are saying makes sense to me.  I used to think shame is something harmful to my personal growth and needs to be rid of asap.  Like it is a pathogenic bacteria that if left untreated will infect me with an terrible illness.  This whole idea of seeing shame as useful is all new to me and quite a stretch from what I'm used to.  But it sure makes a whole lot of sense to me.

Just the other day, after I got off the phone with my friend, I felt ashamed for ranting about my mother to her.  I felt it for awhile.  So I thought I will try something different.  This time, I will direct my feeling of shame in a different direction.  Instead of wallowing in my shame, I will instead try to figure out and get down to the root of my shame.  I will listen to what it is trying to tell me, instead of just dwelling on the feeling.  I initially thought to myself that the reason I felt ashame of myself for going off about my mother to my friend was because I felt my mother's current health condition doesn't warrant me talking bad about her.  But then I thought about it some more.  Why did I say those words at such a time as this?  And why did I feel ashame for saying it?  Then I thought, hmmm, I think I didn't feel ashame for what I said about my mother, rather, I felt shame in response to the words my friend had said and not said to me.  She didn't give me the acceptance/affirmation/validation I subconsciously needed to hear from her.  What I really wanted underneath my words was validation.  If my friend had said validating words to me, then I wouldn't feel like what I said was wrong.  Underneath that shame was my need to vent my suppressed feelings about my mother and a need to hear someone say that it is okay to feel that way about your mother.  After I had identified the root of my feeling of shame, acknowledged and accepted it, I no longer felt shame of what I had said about my mother.  This is how shame has been useful to me.


Quote
Anyways, she said,"I am willing to help you but you go dancing too much and if I lend you the money I EXPECT you to cut back to two nights a week. Your brother says that two is plenty". I am 54 years old.  

I'm sorry but this is hilarious! How did you respond? I have to say that when I visit my mom, she wants to determine my bedtime! I am in my 40s. married for the 2nd time, with 2 kids!

Yeah, that is kinda funny...in a sad way, though.   Some people just don't know when to quit, do they?

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: Brigid on June 23, 2005, 10:22:06 AM
Butterfly & GFN,

Quote
I see shame and guilt as both intrinsic emotions. However, the source of the feeling is different. As I understand it, we feel guilty when we commit an infraction against somebody else. However, we feel shame when we commit an infraction against ourselves.


I would agree with Butterfly on this.  I don't see shame as something someone else puts on us.  N's feel great shame, which is where their nness comes from.  It may not necessarily be warrented, but is left from some kind of childhood experience or trauma in most cases.  It ultimately leads to great self-loathing which is disguised in elevated self-love.  But they do not feel guilt for the way they treat others.  That would involve having some empathy and care of the feelings of others.

Quote
Just the other day, after I got off the phone with my friend, I felt ashamed for ranting about my mother to her.


Butterfly, I think you are being awfully hard on yourself.  I don't see something like this as being shameful.  You might feel somewhat guilty, but emotional responses that come from a painful place don't deserve feelings of shame imo.  I just see shame as a pretty strong feeling that would be reserved for transgressions against your moral code, sense of decency, family values, and things of that nature.

Brigid
Title: Anything
Post by: b/k on June 23, 2005, 04:50:55 PM
Brigid wrote,
Quote
Butterfly, I think you are being awfully hard on yourself.


Maybe so. But that was how I felt.

Have a good day everyone. 8)

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 24, 2005, 09:31:59 AM
Hi all:

By definition, shame is a painful emotion.  No doubt.  I guess the way I see it is that it is one emotion that we wouldn't feel without someone else around to feel ashamed infront of or because of.

Narcissistic shame, as I understand it, is caused by the primary caregiver shaming the child and not helping the child deal with those feelings.  It goes something like:

Little guy behaves inappropriately, caregiver (usually the mother) says:  "Bad boy!!"  and leaves it at that.  She doesn't explain that the boy is good but his action was unacceptable.  She doesn't express confidence that she believes he will learn and not repeat the behaviour.  She doesn't express her love for him, regardless.  She just puts shame on him and he.....being only a little guy....doesn't handle it very well at all.  He finds the feeling overpowering and extremely uncomfortable.  Feels bad about himself.  Doesn't know what to do with all the "bad" feelings.  They sink in and become a part of him, rather than be released by validation of self, by his caregiver.  Validation that doesn't happen.

In your case Butterfly, your feelings are perfectly valid.  This might be a very confusing time for you.  Your mom is so ill and yet the pain from the past, from her past behaviour toward you, still hurts.  You expressed that to your friend, and you said you:

Quote
didn't feel ashame for what I said about my mother, rather, I felt shame in response to the words my friend had said and not said to me. She didn't give me the acceptance/affirmation/validation I subconsciously needed to hear from her. What I really wanted underneath my words was validation. If my friend had said validating words to me, then I wouldn't feel like what I said was wrong.


By not giving you validation, she put shame on you.  Had she given you validation, you would not have felt that shame.  Your need for validation is a legitimate need and not something to be ashamed of.  We all need validation.  Your friend may not have realized what happened or even that she was putting shame on you but that's what happened, imo.  You were left feeling more confused and now ashamed and .....good for you!...did figger it out on your own.  You looked at it as a friend, that shame, and learned from it, which is good.  My point is, you would not have felt it in the first place had someone else not been there to put it on you.

Quote
my need to vent my suppressed feelings about my mother and a need to hear someone say that it is okay to feel that way about your mother.


Perfectly valid need.  Instead, you got no response or a response that felt like you had something to be ashamed of.  The root of the shame, imo, was not you, your feelings, or needs, but....your friend's response.

Just my opinion.  Hope you are doing ok Butterfly.  You have every right to express your feelings and your needs are valid too.  I don't think you are being hard on yourself.  I think your friend was being hard on you (and maybe didn't even realize it).

((((((((((Butterfly))))))))))

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: b/k on June 24, 2005, 11:03:48 AM
GFN wrote,
Quote
Hope you are doing ok Butterfly. You have every right to express your feelings and your needs are valid too. I don't think you are being hard on yourself. I think your friend was being hard on you (and maybe didn't even realize it).


The point I was trying to convey with my story was, I didn't feel shame after I realized what I was feeling shameful of.  I'm doing okay.  The peace and calmness my mother has about her health condition is helping me feel fine.  

GFN, thank you for sticking by me.  All I really need and want is for somebody to be on my side no matter how I feel.  You did that for me.  Thanks for the great hug.

I won't be around for awhile, but I will be thinking about you, GFN, esp. on your daughter's graduation day and how special it will be for you and your family.  I will also be thinking about your beautiful garden and how envious I am of it.  :lol:  :D  Sending you happy thoughts. :)

Hope everyone have a great day. :)

Butterfly
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 24, 2005, 11:54:37 AM
Hi Butterfly:

Quote
The point I was trying to convey with my story was, I didn't feel shame after I realized what I was feeling shameful of. I'm doing okay. The peace and calmness my mother has about her health condition is helping me feel fine.


Glad you aren't feeling shame and for that realization.  It would be harder if she were not handling it so well.  If that were the case, and it were me, I might feel torn between wanting to ease her suffering and not wanting to.

I'm on your side no matter what you feel is right!  Hugging you no matter.
Thanks for the happy thoughts and wishes.  I need those and appreciate your generosity very much. :D

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: b/k on June 24, 2005, 06:08:25 PM
I came across this quote today and had to share it.

"Humans are like tea bags, you have to put them in hot water before you know how strong they are."
Title: Anything
Post by: mum as guest on June 24, 2005, 07:23:48 PM
Since this is the anything thread: I will take it to mean a rant is possible.
I am sooooooo F'n sick of always keeping it together.  I am sick and tired of always questioning myself, my actions and reactions, and sick sick sick of dealing with my ex husband and his infectious poison that has leaked it's way into my life and by way of my beautiful children, can never be erradicated!!!
His poison infects us all, right down to our bones, and every single day is a struggle to stay healthy amid his constant torrent of  harrassment and noxious selfishness.
I am having a bad couple of days.....and I just feel like saying that.  Yeah, I know, I can let it go, but some days I just can't and I feel overwhelmed like everyone else does. I love my children so much, and I feel like a failure when what he does and says filters down into my being emotional and acting so in front of my children. I never want to be the cause of them feeling bad, but as a parent, isn't that inevitable? Am I allowed to have feelings?  AAAAAGGGGGHH. Why do I have to shut up all the time and never let them know how I feel about thier dad and what is going on?  And why do I feel bad if I let any of that out to them??
 I feel like I am on an emotional see saw.  I know full well what I am doing, and yet I cannot stop it. (the downward spiral of "life sucks")
 I just need to feel how bad things suck sometimes.  This is sooooo hard!!!  I feel like doing some sort of primal scream!!!!!
Thank you for letting me rant.  I guess the hot water is getting to this tea bag!!!!!
Speaking of bags....I think I need a punching bag...seriously.
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 24, 2005, 08:30:59 PM
Hiya Mum:

Popped in here on my way out this eve and saw your post.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((mum))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Probably doesn't help but can't hurt.

Quote
I feel like a failure when what he does and says filters down into my being emotional and acting so in front of my children. I never want to be the cause of them feeling bad, but as a parent, isn't that inevitable? Am I allowed to have feelings?


Nobody can keep it together allllllllllllll of the time.  Being emotional infront of your children shows your humanness and fallability.  It's ok ....they'll live.   It is inevitable.  Absolutely.  And you are allowed to have feelings!

Quote
I feel like doing some sort of primal scream!!!!!


I've done that!  A friend told me to try it......just scream into a pillow for a few minutes.  It's a great release!  Makes me want to live in a jungle.  Wait a minute.....I already live in a jungle.....sort of. :?   So do you, Mum.  And the lions and tigers are the stuff these idiots impose on us.  Everyone who has to deal with such....people......gets sick of it.  It's sick, that's why!  And to a certain extent...they make us sick too.

But the good news is......you have the brains and the good sense to rant and do whatever you can to get it out and let it go.  You do a very good job of that too, Mum.  I'm very proud of the way you do that, with all the crap you have to deal with this ding dong!

Quote
I think I need a punching bag...seriously


Hey!  If I can have bongo drums, you can have a punching bad.  Just think of the great fun you'll have, picturing his face in the centre of that bag!  It might help!

This too shall pass, Mum.  Keep ranting if it helps.  I doubt anyone here minds at all.  It's good to see you getting it out.

Please love yourself too.  You aren't perfect (which makes you wonderfully "normal") but you're beautiful and caring and one of the best mom's alive!!

Another one (((((((((((((((((Mum)))))))))))))))

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mum guesting on June 24, 2005, 08:56:54 PM
Thanks, GFN. You have helped. ((((())))))
Title: Anything
Post by: Plucky G2 on June 25, 2005, 12:32:11 AM
Quote
I love my children so much, and I feel like a failure when what he does and says filters down into my being emotional and acting so in front of my children. I never want to be the cause of them feeling bad, but as a parent, isn't that inevitable? Am I allowed to have feelings? AAAAAGGGGGHH. Why do I have to shut up all the time and never let them know how I feel about their dad and what is going on? And why do I feel bad if I let any of that out to them??


Hi mum , I'm feeling you.  Ok this is what I would say.  It is only my opinion, feel free to disregard it if it does not sound right to you.

As a human being, you are not going to keep it together all the time.  That is just a fact.    So having that as a goal is totally unrealistic.  And no one else is achieving that.  Even the Dalai Lama, probably.

Your ex is the toxic source of much pain and anger.  He knows how to push your buttons masterfully.  Any contact you have with him will allow toxins to infiltrate your life.  He is also going to be (already is) toxic to your children.  As much as you can minimize the secondhand exposure they have from him through you, the better.

I don't know how old your children are.  If they are young, and they see your anger, they may interpret it as more or different than it is.  That is why you want to shield them.  As you know.    Even older children who seem to be capable of handling it, may suffer a lot.

But they also need to know that he is in fact maddening and that his dysfunctional words and actions can produce anger, and that this is normal.  If you model that he gets under your skin enormously, and say or do things you later regret, they will likely follow your lead.  If you can model letting it slide off your back like so much polluted water off a duck, while ackowledging how abnormal it is, that can help them.

Try to limit the contact you have with your ex.  Can logisitics be handling with the help of someone else?  Can it be done only in writing?   Can someone else filter this before it gets to you?  Literally?

Can you procure more support so that you can unload onto an understanding adult and spare your kids?

I would say you feel bad because you are a good mother, and yet you are unable to just absorb all the negative energy your stupid ex is putting out, and you worry when it spills over that it could harm your children.  I think your worry is well-founded and yet you cannot get along without spilling your guts somehow.

So do it here.  You will always find understanding people with insight.  And do it with a sympathetic adult, whoever you can find.  Perhaps write a journal.   Do some exercise and get outdoors in the fresh air.  Go to a pub.   Swim.  Run.  Watch wrestling shows.

Oh, and give yourself a break.
Plucky
[/quote]
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2005, 09:20:48 AM
Hey Mum:

Been thinking about these two questions of yours:

1.
Quote
Why do I have to shut up all the time and never let them know how I feel about thier dad and what is going on?


We are told not to bad mouth our x's because they are the children's parent and the child might think badly of themselves, because they will wonder if they themselves are "like" that parent..... and thus have the same bad points.

Sometimes, I think this is complete bs because children can think for themselves and will automatically wonder if they are like their parents, notice their imperfections, and possibly feel bad about themselves, a little, regardless of what we say.  They'll see the good in us too.  Plus, aren't we hiding the truth from them by not expressing what's real and instead pretending or ignoring it or trying to keep it .....together?

I don't know.  I've made negative comments (not often and lot's of positive comments too), and I've felt very angry with my x, and expressed it, and my children were quick to defend him, so there ya go.  I don't think this hurt them either.  I think it was simply natural for them to react defensively, as if their father could do no wrong, because at that point.....they just couldn't see it (because I had been helping to hide it and their exposure did not allow for a real view).  They were only visiting as if it were a hotel......not at all like a real home life situation.  They were guests and didn't experience much of what life is really like with daddio.

That has changed.  They are older now and their opinion has changed and they are expressing their feelings about him to me now.  They have experienced living with their father and have found out that it is definately not like being a guest in a hotel.   I think my children feel good about themselves because they have been taught that we all have traits that are good and not so good and that they can choose to do what they want to with what they have.   And they are valued and loved, warts and all.

I wouldn't die worrying about what I let slip through my teeth in a moment of not keeping it together, if you would mum.  Instead, concentrate on the overall picture you've given, and what really matters....the good things about your children that you see and love and value.  This will help them more than your occasional slip of the tongue will ever hurt them, imo.

2.
Quote
And why do I feel bad if I let any of that out to them??


Because the "experts" have convinced us that they know best and what is and is not true.  I have a hard time with some of it sometimes.  Sometimes, common sense kicks in and psychoblab kicks out.  It's the feelings people have that ought to be expressed.  Yes, it's nice if we can calmly say:  "I'm not happy with your father right now because of stuff that he has said or done.  I'm mad and it's ok to feel mad." and talk about if they have felt mad before and with whom/about what and they might begin to express empathy for you, too, which isssssss a good learning experience for them.

This is reasonable and lovely but it doesn't always happen that way in the real world.  So don't panic mum.  Truly.  You are not alone and are not causing your children devistating harm by not being perfect and not always keeping it together.  It's impossible to do and it might not be as necessary as we are expected to believe.  It's a good goal and worth trying for but I doubt anyone is capable of being thaaaaaat together.  As long as some meaningful conversation comes afterward, where they get to express how they feel....whether they are mad at you for being mad at their dad or feel for you because they have also been mad at him before....it will have some positive effect, I think.

(((((((((((Mum))))))))))

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mum as guest on June 25, 2005, 10:45:38 AM
GFN:
Quote
I think it was simply natural for them to react defensively, as if their father could do no wrong, because at that point.....they just couldn't see it (because I had been helping to hide it and their exposure did not allow for a real view). They were only visiting as if it were a hotel......not at all like a real home life situation. They were guests and didn't experience much of what life is really like with daddio.


YUP!! that's it.

Quote
They are older now and their opinion has changed and they are expressing their feelings about him to me now. They have experienced living with their father and have found out that it is definately not like being a guest in a hotel. I think my children feel good about themselves because they have been taught that we all have traits that are good and not so good and that they can choose to do what they want to with what they have. And they are valued and loved, warts and all.


Hoping for same!!!

Quote
As long as some meaningful conversation comes afterward, where they get to express how they feel....whether they are mad at you for being mad at their dad or feel for you because they have also been mad at him before....it will have some positive effect, I think.

Probably this is where I got bummed out, as they are at dad's for two more nights....

Plucky:

Quote
As much as you can minimize the secondhand exposure they have from him through you, the better.


Exactly!! Exactly why I felt so bad.

Quote
And do it with a sympathetic adult, whoever you can find. Perhaps write a journal. Do some exercise and get outdoors in the fresh air.

Did cry to a few friends.  Did write (a lot!!).  Can't exactly use "fresh air" as it is 110 F outside, but did yoga and lifted weights!!  Bingo!!

Quote
Oh, and give yourself a break.

How often have I given this exact advice and yet NOT done it for myself???
Thank you!!!!

Bunny: if you are reading: you were right (man, can you just live with me?) You told me not to put too much stock in my children speaking up for themselves or in that Phd. who was hired to speak for them. They only gave him a watered down version of what they tell me....or he didn't ask the right questions or whatever......and things will only change a small amount as I doubt "more flexibility" (which is what HE heard my daughter say) will be easy to make happen legally.....but if anyone can put teeth in something so vague, it will be my lawyer.  OH WELL!!!!
gotta let it go!!
Title: Anything
Post by: a guest on June 25, 2005, 08:39:00 PM
I really don't mean to divert the attention of the current situation, but I figure this is the anything thread and I need a place to vent, so if you don't mind I will do so here.

I feel so scared and angry.  Scared for my future and angry about my past and present.  I look back at my life and I'm sick to my stomach just thinking about it.  I just feel so alone and a failure at my life.  If my life continues to be the way it is now, I beg God almighty to please take me away from my misery.  I look around, esp. in my family and they are married.  And here I am, so alone and no shoulders to cry on, noone I can come home to, no one to share my life with.  No kids to call my own.  Oh, how I feel so alone and empty and such a failure at life.  Why is it so easy for some ppl to attract others to them.  And here I am never been in love before.  Will I ever have the privilege to know what it's like to be in love??  Is there something wrong with me?  Am I destined to live alone for the rest of my life?  If so, I don't want to live.  Life is too burdensome having to go home to an empty house.  Life is already too burdensome with my mindset.  I just don't have a grip with life, ppl, and myself.  What is the purpose of living when I see no purpose for my existence?  This frightening thought has caused me to be physically sick all day.  My life is so despictable.  I hate it and can't stand it.  And the worst part of it is, I don't have the willpower or mindset to change the way I see others and myself.  Woe is me.

If you don't want to reply, I understand.  I just need to voice my misery somewhere.  

Thank you.
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on June 25, 2005, 09:00:10 PM
Dear, A guest.
I am sorry you feel sad today. If I had read this yesterday, you would have had a cying buddy.  But I have learned a lot of coping skills to get myself back up that I never would have learned had I not reached out for help.  That's what you have done. Excellent.

You acknowledge your mindset is a burden to you.  Do you know also, that your mindset is actually perpetuating your circumstance or at least your reaction to it?
Do you see that you are saying YOU are one entity and YOUR LIFE is another?  That's a great place to start!! YOU are NOT your life situation.
So YOU don't have to identify yourself through your circumstances if you choose not to.
Have you considered therapy?  Good therapy (and there is a lot available) can help you find the skills for change.  

You may not think anyone cares, but I do, and I'd bet money (if I had any  :lol: ) that most of the people here have felt exactly as you have at one time or another.  So, I think many here could relate to you.
Please don't despair.  The fact that you have posted says you have already taken one VERY BIG first step to getting the life you want. You have identified what you don't want.  Now it's time to find your way OUT of that. You can do it......we are all on that same path to healing.
Bless you.
Title: Anything
Post by: Lara on June 26, 2005, 04:35:10 AM
Dear Guest,
WELCOME to the board. I'm so sorry that you're feeling so low at the moment.
Mum is right...you have taken a very important first step in posting here, and you have shown a lot of courage. You have shown how strong the human spirit is, to reach out even at a time when you are feeling that nothing is worthwhile. That is your survival instinct at work, and I promise you that if you stay around this site, you will get the support you need, not only to survive from day to day, but to start seeing a more hopeful future.
So many times on this board, I've seen good, sensitive people like yourself, find new strength over the weeks and months. The same thing happened to me. As Mum said,  many people here have felt, or are feeling, the way you are now. I remember my own thoughts not very long ago: ' I am never going to feel happy again. There is no way out of this situation. I am trapped. I am going crazy.' I could not see any hope for myself, but reading and posting here has been my therapy, and now I can see definite changes for the better, which before I would have thought impossible.

Please have no doubt Guest, that the people on this site  already care about you, just by reading what you wrote yesterday, and that they are thinking about you. If and when you want to post again, to share how you are feeling or to vent about why life has been so difficult for you, people here can support you through that.

I am glad that you have come here, and I admire you so much for taking that first big step on the way to a different future.

Sincerely,
Lara.
Title: Anything
Post by: a guest on June 26, 2005, 02:04:20 PM
Thank you, ((((Mum))))) and (((((Lara)))))  for reaching out to me with your kind words.

Sincerely,
a guest
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2005, 03:44:41 PM
Hi A Guest:

Sorry for all the lonliness and saddness you are feeling.  It's not very nice being alone and feeling a lone and sad.   :( Lara and Mum gave you some good stuff to think about.

I have a couple of those questions that I guess might get you thinking a bit (or you can ignor them, if you choose, ofcourse :D ):

Do you think you would be attracted to a person who is feeling as you do?

The reason I ask is because it might not be the best time, right now, to meet anyone relationshipwise, because you are unhappy and maybe vunerable in this state.  You may not be in your most attractive state or the best state to attract a person wishing to share love and a happy life with you.

Will you ever find love?  You might.  Much depends on living, I think.

If you find things to do that you enjoy, learn to love yourself and find peace and happiness in your own life first....you have a better chance of attracting someone who is on the same channel and glad to share more of the same, imo.

This may not be an easy thing to accomplish but it is doable.  Look at it this way......you're on your own, at this point, so what if you decide to enhance your life in new ways, by trying new activities, meeting new people, doing things you like, making your home, even though it is only a home for one person right now...making it a happier home?   You can explore you and value you.....if this feels like it's missing.

One little step at a time might be doable?  And posting here.....we'll all support you and encourage you, is my best guess. :D

Please don't give up on the idea that your life can be much happier and full-filling.  It can happen ....you can work on making it happen....a little at a time.  Once you find yourself feeling happier and enjoying your life as it is......you will become more attractive to others who are similar.

((((((((((((((A Guest))))))))))))))))

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: a guest on June 26, 2005, 08:39:28 PM
GFN,

You had some important things for me to think about, along with Lara and Mum.  I don't see my pattern breaking anytime soon.

Thanks for hearing me.  It means a lot.
Title: Anything
Post by: mum as guest on June 26, 2005, 10:15:17 PM
Quote
I don't see my pattern breaking anytime soon.


And when you do...it will. Allow.
Bless you, A guest.

Keep posting.
Title: Anything
Post by: Plucky G2 on June 26, 2005, 11:31:51 PM
Dear A Guest,
I am so glad you came here to open your baggage and begin to unload.  I am so sorry you feel desperate.   Feel the support offered by all the wonderful people here.

When I read your post, it sounded EXACTLY like something I would have written a few years back.   And if I could go back and give myself advice, this is what I would say.

I am feeling much better than I did then.  I have gotten married and had children, but what made me better was not that.   I wish I had done things in order.  

Wrong order:
1.  Get married.
2.  Have children.
3.  Realize that I need healing.  Struggle through it with the wrong spouse and the responsibility of children.

Right Order:
1.  Get better and heal self.
2.  Decide what I want out of life.
3.  Involve others in this life (friends, spouses, children).

Was it GFN?  who said that if you attract someone now, in your state, it could well be the absolute wrong person for you.   When people are attracted to others who have serious issues, that could mean that they have issues and need someone worse to divert attention, or that they sense that they can take control of this person.  

Yuo might feel that you are sinking.  No one can rescue you.  You can, however, swim to safety with the support of others.  We are some of those others.

I agree with, was it Mia?  Get thee to a therapist.  And participate in this forum.  

I'm pulling for you.
Plucky
Title: Anything
Post by: Plucky on June 27, 2005, 12:18:22 AM
Quote
We are told not to bad mouth our x's because they are the children's parent and the child might think badly of themselves, because they will wonder if they themselves are "like" that parent..... and thus have the same bad points.

Sometimes, I think this is complete bs because children can think for themselves and will automatically wonder if they are like their parents, notice their imperfections, and possibly feel bad about themselves, a little, regardless of what we say. They'll see the good in us too. Plus, aren't we hiding the truth from them by not expressing what's real and instead pretending or ignoring it or trying to keep it .....together?


I would just disagree a teeny tiny bit.  Because children, even teens, do not always have the reasoned thought process we associate with adulthood.  They are going to be struggling with their own feelings and thoughts about the situation.  If you expose them to your feelings too much,  that is another burden for them.  Then enters feelings of loyalty and guilt and taking sides.  Divorce is a very adult problem and no child is able to deal with it. Most adults are not.

I am here to say that one of the things my N mom did right was to follow that rule, pretty much, about not badmouthing our dad.  Only later I discovered many things he had done, when I was older and able to handle that information.  I think she ought to have told us a little more than she did, so we could understand why they divorced, but on the whole it worked for me.  

This is certainly not easy to do.  It may not even be possible.  But if you try you can probably do well enough to optimize the situation for them.  I think your instinct is to protect them but you have so much on your plate that it spills over.  I also think you are probably not as bad as you think you are.   I got some really good advice from someone years ago when contemplating my first divorce:  if you've made a mistake, the best thing tto do is admit it and move on.  If something spills out, just forgive yourself and move on.  Overall in the scheme of things, how disastrous is it?

Mum, I am not trying to be unsupportive or task you with an impossible task.   I know it is hard and you are only human with a huge burden to bear.  I can only tell you what worked for me as a child, and in my case (stay tuned) I will try to play it safe also.

Right now, when my H and I have an argument, I tell my children that I was so angry that I lost my temper and yelled.  They are small, so they don't ask what it was about, but if they do I just say it was a grown up problem.  I don't want them trying to come up with any solutions.    

I know it will not work all the time but do your best and that is the best your children can possibly get!
Plucky
Title: Anything
Post by: mum as guest on June 27, 2005, 02:32:00 AM
Thanks, Plucky. I do bite my tongue.  I have near bitten it off many times, but as I said elsewhere tonight on the board: my kids suffer enough having a jerk for a dad....why would I want to add to their pain by pointing that out.  They know what he is about, they will figure out more as they get older. But he is their dad, good or bad.  Half their DNA and all, so my intention will always be to not share my own feelings about him with them, and let them have their own relationship with him.

Many times people ask me how I can do this: well, who wants to hurt their own child? Not me.  I'll do what I can to show them healthy boundaries and loving relationships....and that I can do without even concerning myself with the jerk.  Beyond that, I can only hope they will choose a healthy approach to life....and maybe someday they will know who showed it to them.
Title: Anything
Post by: Plucky on June 27, 2005, 02:40:25 AM
Quote
and maybe someday they will know who showed it to them.

They will.  Even tho my mom is N, she did do this right, and for that I am grateful.  I got to process the pain of knowing how much of a jerk my dad was, as an adult, not as a child.  Thank you mom!
It may take a while........
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2005, 08:28:36 AM
Hi all:

Hey Plucky:

Just to clarify a wee bit (hahahaha.....clear as mud!! :D ):

Quote
If you expose them to your feelings too much, that is another burden for them.


I'm not advocating the exposeure or burdening of our feelings to/on our children.  What I'm trying to say is that if we slip up and do let some of this out, occasionally, it will not be devistating for our kids, or even all that eye opening (possibly).

Quote
I got to process the pain of knowing how much of a jerk my dad was, as an adult, not as a child.


This seems good as you are glad and thankful about it.  For me, my mother didn't need to say a bad word about my father.  I had him figgered from a very young age, all on my own.   I don't think I'm accessively observant .....but it was hard to miss.  I didn't internalize what I thought about him as part of me.  That was him, in my view, and I was me.

But maybe I'm weird?  :roll:

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: mum on June 27, 2005, 12:10:16 PM
Quote
I didn't internalize what I thought about him as part of me. That was him, in my view, and I was me.

GFN: no, you are not weird, just normal. I am certain my kids know what their dad is all about, but he's their dad, and they get to love a jerk (he's their only dad, after all).
Quote
What I'm trying to say is that if we slip up and do let some of this out, occasionally, it will not be devistating for our kids, or even all that eye opening (possibly).

Again, this is good for me to remember. Rarely, is anything all that devestating.  My kids are resilient....because I am their mom, and you had a good mom, too.  Healthy people make "mistakes" and move one.
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2005, 08:30:25 AM
Hi All:

Hey Mum!  Sounds like you're feeling a little better.  I hope so.  This crap won't last forever.   You're going to come out of it intact and smiling, with children who know they have a good mom, while he will stay as he is....a goof and they won't miss that either!  I agree.....he is their only dad and they will have feelings for him.  You're not teaching your children to hate their father.  Some people do that.  You're doing the best you can, under the circumstances Mum and that's all anyone can possibly do.  You're doing a very good job!!  Someday, your kids will tell you so!

Thanks for saying I'm not weird!  That is really nice of you.  And especially for saying I'm "normal"!!  (my caregivers at "the home" might not agree with you..... :D :shock:  :shock: ..... :D  :D ..just kidding... heehee :D ).

What's normal anyway?  I have a hard time sometimes determining that.  I mean.....I guess there's such a thing as "usual" or "popular" but "normal"?  My believe is that as an evolving species....we are constantly changing and "normal" is kind of ......tough to put a finger on.
What was "normal" one hundred years ago, isn't "normal" today (say in regard to child rearing).   What's "normal" today, 100 years from now, they may be saying is completely daft!  I don't know.  That's just my brain again...going off (little sparks and blood surges and charges and stuff... causing my "normal" type of thoughts! :D  :D ).

Quote
...and you had a good mom, too.


I did have a good mom but she was by no means what one might call "normal" today.  She was abusive some of the time, both emotionally and physically.  But she was basically a good mom because she loved me and did a lot of good things for me too.  She taught me plenty of good stuff and would probably have been much different, a much better mom, if she hadn't been so terribly abused by my father.  My mom was in and out of psychosis, by the time she died.  She lived a life of terror from the time she was 19.  She withstood stuff that I doubt I could have and she managed to be as "normal", as often, as what appeared to be....humanly possible.

Anyhow.....just wanted to clear that up.  I could have let it go and just left it that she was a good mom, as you said.    I think, to a certain extent, she was very much so, but I would feel like I am denying the not so good stuff though, if I had not commented.

Have a great day all!

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2005, 06:16:25 PM
Well.....I'm away until Monday.  Going north to par with deer flies and swim some.  Thought I would post this to show the hazzards of city life, or at least......so I can test myself when I get back.

It's called something in German, I think? :?
The idea is to use your mouse to keep the dude walking as upright as possible.

The record is supposedly.......87 metres.

(not my record....that's for sure!)

Have a grrrrrreat next few days all!!

GFN

http://www.wagenschenke.ch/
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on June 29, 2005, 06:17:58 PM
PS:  re the second game:  Homerun 2004

GFN
Title: Anything
Post by: Anonymous on July 04, 2005, 10:45:46 AM
Found these interesting quotes packed away in one of my files.  Don't know who wrote them:

Quote
Human beings are the only creatures on earth that allow their children to
 come back home.

 
Quote
Love doesn't make the world go 'round, love is
 what makes the ride worthwhile.

 
Quote
Patience is the ability to idle your motor when you feel like
 stripping your gears.


Enjoy today all!!

GFN
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on July 07, 2005, 07:52:02 PM
This is a coooooool board!!!

I have a new board name which is:  Sela

Hope you are all feeling and healing well.

GFN/Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on July 11, 2005, 09:47:39 AM
Hi all!

A friend sent this to me and I thought it was cute.

>>>>Subject: Jesus, Satan and Computers
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Jesus and Satan were having an on-going argument about who was better
>>>>on
>>>> >the computer. They had been going at it for days, and frankly God was
>>>>tired
>>>> >of hearing all the bickering.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Finally fed up, God said, "THAT'S IT! I have had enough. I am going to
>>>> >set up a test that will run for two hours, and from those results, I
>>>>will
>>>> >judge who does the better job."
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >So Satan and Jesus sat down at the keyboards and typed away.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >They moused.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >They faxed.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >They E-mailed.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >They E-mailed with attachments.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >They downloaded.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >They did spreadsheets.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >They wrote reports.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >They created labels and cards.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >They created charts and graphs.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >They did some genealogy reports.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >They did every job known to man. Jesus worked with heavenly efficiency
>>>> >and Satan was faster than hell.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Then, ten minutes before their time was up, lightning suddenly flashed
>>>> >across the sky, thunder rolled, rain poured, and, of course, the power
>>>> >went off.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Satan stared at his blank screen and screamed every curse word known
>>>>in
>>>> >the underworld.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Jesus just sighed.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Finally the electricity came back on, and each of them restarted their
>>>> >computers. Satan started searching frantically, screaming:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >"It's gone! It's all GONE!
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >"I lost everything when the power went out!"
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Meanwhile, Jesus quietly started printing out all of his files from
>>>>the
>>>> >past two hours of work.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >Satan observed this and became irate.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >"Wait!" he screamed. "That's not fair! He cheated!
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >How come he has all his work and I don't have any?"
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >God just shrugged and said, "Jesus saves."


Hope you all have a good day!

Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on July 15, 2005, 10:44:49 AM
I've been reading a book called:  "Attacked", which is a book of short stories about people who have been attacked by wild animals and survived. The book is edited by John Long.  In one story called:
"I hoped it would finish me quickly", by Hugh Edwards, an event is described in which a lady named Val Plumwood is attacked by a crocodile, while cannoeing in an Australian river and she survives.

At the end of the story, Edwards writes:

"Hollywood films have tried to capture the terror of what Val Plumwood experienced, but they never have and never will.  Surely, if we could harness the courage she showed, clawing up that muddy bank, tending her own wounds, forging on and refusing to give up, we might change the world.  No less miraculous than her survival was her resiliency.  Many such victims have survived only as gutted wrecks, never willing or able to integrate the shock and resume anything but shadow lives.  The glory here is that Plumwood pushed through the horror and outrage of the attack and rejoined the living, and did so without wanting to convert every Australian crocodile into a pair of loafers.  Believe this: many bitter survivors of animal attacks dedicate the rest of their lives to evening the score with the shark or the crocodile or the big cat."

If I change this sentence.....to read.....

and did so without wanting to get even with the N (and substitute the letter N for all the animals in the next sentence)

....just for the heck of it.....it really makes me think.

Especially this sentence:

 
Quote
Many such victims have survived only as gutted wrecks, never willing or able to integrate the shock and resume anything but shadow lives.


Sometimes I feel like a gutted wreck,... empty... and I'm just following life along like a shadow.  Sometimes I am not integrating the shock/and other feelings very well at all.

Quote
The glory here is that Plumwood pushed through the horror and outrage of the attack ...

This is what I think I must do.  I have never thought about it in those terms....pushing through the horror and outrage.....like thread through a needle.  The pain is big and the space it must pass through is very small.

Some days I feel very strong, as if I am doing that....integrating it all....becoming whole....feeling resilient and rejoining the living.  My needle is then threaded.

My hope is that there will be more and more days of rejoining and less and less of the days when I feel wrecked.

I wish this for (((all))) here too.

Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: P on July 15, 2005, 06:42:22 PM
(((((((((Sela))))))))) every day, with more understanding and more feeling, especially more feeling, and a little gazing at the stars, it becomes worthwhile (before we go). It's all here and it's what it is, I think.

Loved the Jesus Saves item! :D

Hello, btw, I'm still in Viva Espana mode. !Si! Hand over the tapas and some vino tinto por favor.

Tsk, and there I was, taking myself seriously at the start of this reply. So what happened here this last week? i think I've fallen way behind. Do i need introductions to anyone new, or anyone else.....? Can I be of help (hmmmmm...) anywhere? PMs welcome as always.

Hope you're okay Sela. (I think you're okay.) best, portia
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Butterfly on July 15, 2005, 07:25:29 PM
((((Sela))))  Just want to send you a cyber hug.  :)

I just want to share a quote that has helped me put things in perspective.  I usually get tripped up mentally over my weaknesses and mistakes.  Anyway, here it is:

"Our strength, as human beings, lies not so much in our stupendous achievements, but in the acknowledgement and understanding of our weaknesses and mistakes, and our refusal to be reconciled with them.  For this is where our strength comes from."

By Abhinyana
Title: Re: Everything
Post by: aNyThInG gOeS on July 15, 2005, 08:34:53 PM
Does it really work?

CO Q10
OMEGA 3
OMEGA 6
EXERCISE
DIETING
FLAX
GREENHOUSE GASES
SUNBURN
OXYGEN
RECYCLING
GREEN UP :lol:
STRETCHING
WEIGHT LIFTING
PUSHUPS
PULLUPS
BREATHING
and of course ...
GRAVITY :lol:
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: aNyThInG gOeS on July 15, 2005, 08:42:37 PM
The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain ... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on July 16, 2005, 09:43:03 AM
Hiya P!

Thanks for the hug and the more feeling.  Yes....gazing at the stars is good.  Thinking is good.

The "Jesus Saves" item gave me a little giggle. :D  Glad you loved it!

Still in Spain mode?  Sounds marvelous!!  What does real spanish rice taste like?  Does it really rain in Spain mainly in the plain or is that just something Lucy recited, carrying a book on her head, to make us laugh?

There are some new members...I'm sure you'll see the new names on the board.  You're a help P.  You really are!  I'm ok....thanks for hoping and thanks for saying so.

Hope you are too (I think you are ok+and then some)! :D


Thankyou too Butterfly for the cyber hug.   I liked the quote you posted.  Never thought of strength coming from understanding weaknesses and about refusing
Quote
to be reconciled with them.

What a great way to look at weaknesses!  I believe we do get stronger by working to improve ourselves in this way.

Hope you are doing well too.

Hey!  That's a good question anythinggoes (I'm too lazy to play with all those caps right now.....heehee :D).

Interesting list.

Well....I'm off to water one of my very thirsty looking lilac trees (it's just a baby and not looking happy at all :().  Then I'm going for coffee with a friend who has just sustained some severely traumatic experiences.  I want to comfort her and I know nothing really helps.  Life just sucks sometimes.  But....it does go on and I really do believe there is hope for better days ahead.

Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Stormchild on July 16, 2005, 07:20:12 PM
Sela, re your friend -- sometimes the most helpful thing anyone can do is simply to sit next to someone who is suffering, and be with them, and not to leave them merely because there are no words to say.

So few people know how to do that. It's worth so much, not to be treated like a leper merely because one is unlucky, or in pain.
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on July 18, 2005, 10:41:10 AM
Thanks Stormy:

Yes, I've felt like a leper too before and could have had great benefit by a friend who was just there, listening and being present, maybe encouraging me some.

My friend was feeling much better, she said, after we met.  She was panicking over some choices she made, which were actually quite sound decisions, considering her emotional state, at the time she made them.  I told her I was proud of her for thinking on her feet and some other stuff I noticed.

Then, I just listened and listened (she had a lot to get out) and I encouraged her to keep speaking.  By the end of our meeting she was laughing and saying how much better she felt and thanking me profusely for being there for her.

I was glad to do so not only because I want to support her but also because she has helped me out, in the past, in some serious ways and I want to give back.

My friend is going to be ok and I'm so glad!  She's had a rough go of it.

Hope you are all enjoying today.

 :D Sela

 
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on July 21, 2005, 09:48:36 AM
Thought this was funny. :D


ACTUAL SENTENCES FOUND IN PATIENTS' HOSPITAL CHARTS

She has no rigors or shaking chills, but her husband states she was very hot in bed last night.

Patient has chest pain if she lies on her left side for over a year.

On the second day the knee was better, and on the third day it disappeared.

The patient is tearful and crying constantly. She also appears to be depressed.

The patient has been depressed since she began seeing me in 1993.

Discharge status: Alive but without my permission.

Healthy appearing decrepit 69-year-old male, mentally alert but forgetful.

The patient refused autopsy.

The patient has no previous history of suicides.

Patient has left white blood cells at another hospital.

Patient's medical history has been remarkably with only a 40-pound weight gain in the past three days.

Patient had waffles for breakfast and anorexia for lunch.

Between you and me, we ought to be able to get this lady pregnant.

Since she can't get pregnant with her husband, I thought you might like to work her up.

She is numb from her toes down.

While in ER, she was examined, X-rated, and sent home.

The skin was moist and dry.

Occasional, constant infrequent headaches.

Patient was alert and unresponsive.

Rectal examination revealed a normal size thyroid.

She stated that she had been constipated for most of her life, until she got a divorce.

I saw your patient today, who is still under our car for physical therapy.

Both breasts are equal and reactive to light and accommodation.

Examination of genitalia reveals that he is circus sized.

The lab test indicated abnormal lover function.

The patient was to have a bowel resection. However, he took a job as a stockbroker instead.

Skin: somewhat pale but present.

The pelvic exam will be done later on the floor.

Patient was seen in consultation by Dr. Blank, who felt we should sit on the abdomen and I agree.

Large brown stool ambulating in the hall.

Patient has two teenage children, but no other abnormalities.


 :D Sela :D
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Portia on July 21, 2005, 10:32:49 AM
Sela :D you have me smiling which right now is no mean feat!

More NONSENSE NO-SENSE in London, makes me angry, sickened, the enormity of problems we all face. But I found a smile here, thank you 8)

Terrorism/stupidity (perhaps stupidity is a less powerful word to attribute to such purposeless behaviour?) begins at home, so true.

In his first statement on tv 2 weeks ago, Tony Blair said something about "civilised countries everywhere" !!!!!!!!! :shock:!!!!!!!!! then he finds out our bombers came from England.

In his second statement, only a little later 2 weeks ago, he did amend his phrase to "civilised people everywhere" but I haven't forgiven his earlier complete lack of judgement. He's shown national racism in my book by talking about "civilised countries", as though whole countries contain people who are all the same, who think the same and behave the same etc etc. Such limited, narrow thinking. And he's in charge.

Ayyyyyyeeeey! I get so annoyed :x anyway Blair is about to talk now, so shall go and tune in and listen carefully to his words. This is his job, he's supposed to be good at it.

ick ack thanks for the space Sela :D
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: mudpuppy on July 21, 2005, 12:40:25 PM
Sela,

 :lol: :lol: :lol: Wow, those were funny. Thank you.

Portia,

Uh, countries are more or less governed by what are generally called civilizations. That doesn't mean every single person in that country thinks a certain way, but it certainly has a very large influence on most of the people there.
Polls in most Moslem countries show a majority of their inhabitants would be quite happy to see Israel and the Jews as a race wiped off the face of the earth, and that Bin Laden is a hero.
If you don't think civilations differ, or that none have more beneficient attributes than others, then you might try walking down the streets of Riyadh in your normal every day clothes sharing your opinion with the men passing by. You will most definitely be treated rather differently than a Moslem woman walking down the streets of New York City or London.
For a real treat you might try walking down the street telling people that Jesus Christ is the messiah, or Buddha shows us the path to enlightenment. Just don't forget your toothbrush, cause you're probably going to be a guest of the Saudi governement for an extended period of time.
Or perhaps you would like to try sex without benefit of marriage in Iran. They just stone you to death there.
Civilations are different. Some are awful. That's why their inhabitants try to leave them. That is not a judgement of the people and is therefore not racism. It is a judgement of the system of laws and beliefs they live under.
And it is precisely that civilisation that the terroists are trying to impose on us.
No thanks, I like ours better.

mud
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Portia on July 21, 2005, 03:03:28 PM
Hiya Mud. Mr Blair was very calm and rational today and said good, minimal things. No brickbats from me today.

I walked through the centre of Tel Aviv in March 1981 wearing inappropriate clothes. :? Haha cultural clashes, but I didn’t suffer violence (physical or verbal). I met a few people there over about 3 months, about 10, to talk to. Interesting times. I'm not Jewish btw.

Do you know how stonings are done in some countries? They tie the person to a stake or tree, back up a dumper truck full of big rocks and unload it onto the person. Modern technology, old ideas.

Quote
Polls in most Moslem countries show a majority of their inhabitants would be quite happy to see Israel and the Jews as a race wiped off the face of the earth, and that Bin Laden is a hero.
I wouldn’t trust those polls, I don’t trust 100% what is reported and produced as ‘news’ anywhere. Presumably people who can think for themselves in those Moslem countries - and just might disagree with the idea - wouldn’t take part in such a poll…or maybe they would, and would agree with the ‘consensus’ because of fear of what might happen if they don’t. Is that a free vote? If people keep voting in a dictator, does that mean they want him? Or are they acting out of fear?

Quote
guest of the Saudi governement for an extended period of time
hey….maybe we should stop trading with them? Maybe we should look at how many really vicious instruments of torture we (the USA and the UK) export to various countries.

Oral sex between married heterosexuals in Singapore gets you….er….can’t remember but it involves being in prison. :shock: Amazing.


The problem with what Blair said was that the gist was that the bombings would be deplored by “civilised countries everywhere”. It is individual people who commit acts of violence, not countries. It is individuals who can change things, by their acts, by their voices –  even in ‘uncivilised countries’ – South Africa for example?

By naming whole countries as uncivilised we name all the people in them as ‘bad’. We create ‘us’ and ‘them’ and end up warring some more, instead of dealing with each other as people. We need to change minds I think, and it will take forever I guess, but bombing people – whichever ‘side’ does it – doesn’t solve things.

I know I’m incredibly lucky to live where I live. I don’t take anything in my life for granted. I know how easily and quickly our very comfortable lives in the west could be reduced to anarchy, especially in the UK where we produce very little food these days. It’s a fine line between what we have and what could be. Just turn off the oil and electric supplies. We'd be killing our neighbours in no time.

Anyway we probably agree more than we disagree Mud? I hope so.
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: mudpuppy on July 21, 2005, 06:13:59 PM
Quote
It is individual people who commit acts of violence, not countries.
Some countries by and large leave their citizens and their neighbors alone.
Some countries have a long uninterrupted history of persecuting their citizens and making war on their neighbors.
This isn't because the citizens of one country are individually meaner than the other.
Americans or Brits are no better than Rwandans or Russians.
Its in the society and social structure, the civilization, that governs those countries that the difference is found.
That is the purpose of a government of laws not men, so that individuals do not gain the power of the state for their own personal ends.
There are a lot of relatively 'civilized countries' that do a decent job of that.
There are many more 'uncivilized countries' where rule by terror both internal and external is the 'law' of the land.
The former countries pretty much unanimously condemn what has happened in London.
The latter either pay only lip service to condemning it or openly celebrate it.
Perhaps the perfect compromise would have been for Mr. Blair to say 'civilized governments', to the extent there are such things.
Quote
but bombing people – whichever ‘side’ does it – doesn’t solve things.
Well it sure seemed to solve the problem we had with Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.
 
Quote
Anyway we probably agree more than we disagree Mud? I hope so.
I'm sure we do.
 I think our only fundamental disagreement is you believe we can talk things through to some ultimate solution of these kind of problems.
Whereas I think no amount of World Bank loans or good will are sufficient to deter people who are bent on murdering us and destroying our way of life. They need to be killed before they kill us. That's immutable human nature. Its been so since time began and will be so until the end. The only result of pretending otherwise is a lot of dead innocent people.
Its a nasty world full of nasty people, and nasty countries.

mud
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on July 21, 2005, 06:59:13 PM
Hi all!

P & Muddyboy.....glad ya'll got a laugh outta the list of stuff written in medical charts!  Gave me a good giggle too! :D :D (hadn't heard the news when I posted that.. :(,  :x).

So, so sorry, sad and angry to hear about more bombings over there P.  I was glad when I heard that only 1 person was injured (the ba$%#@$S missed, I bet!! Haaahhhhh!!! :twisted:).

I think war is stupid and evil but......as Mud points out....sometimes necessary.  I wish there were a better way to take control of psycho governments, like Hitler's.  Terrorists are the worst because, if you ask me, they're so cowardly.  They don't march, in the open, proclaiming whatever it is they believe, they hide and scheme, and send confusing warnings,...they brainwash and control their own kind and some not like them... and then they blow up targets where innocent people happen to be.  I'm glad they miss the occasional target.  The thing is.....there will always be more of them.  They're group- sick....multi-deranged......mega-nutso!!!  They will never win.....never control the world....never be happy....never get what they want....because....although there are always more of them....there are also...more and more and more who are against them....who will track them..and find them ...and stop some of them.  And more individuals who are just as determined to work against them!! :x

I do believe some individuals take huge risks and dooo make a great difference in such cases.  Those who shelter the innocent, those who collect info and pass it to "our side" (?), those who sacrifice their lives in the fight for freedom and basic human rights.  Those who resist.  All are very brave.

What a stupid waste of everyone's time and lives war is....unless it's your/our/my country being attacked or threatened.  Then suddenly, war against "them" sounds a whole lot better than bombs in your/our/my backyard, doesn't it? (not addressed to anyone in particular....just anyone).

Thankyou brave soldiers who have given your lives to keep you/us/me free.
Thankyou loved ones of those soldiers for your courage and sacrifice.
Lest we forget (and it ain't even Veteran's day).

Imagine if all that war energy were put into making the world a better place?

 Wouldn't that be 8)?

Nice fantasy. :D

Ain't gonna happen, I bet. :roll:

Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Butterfly on July 21, 2005, 10:23:14 PM
Just want to wish everyone a happy day! :) 8) :D

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·´¯`·.¸¸..><((((º>.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·..><((((º> `·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.· ><((((º>´¯`·...¸><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·..><((((º>·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.· ><((((º>´¯`·...¸><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·..><((((º>·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.· ><((((º>´¯`·...¸><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·..><((((º>
·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸ .·´¯`·..><((((º>·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.· ><((((º>
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Portia on July 22, 2005, 06:34:43 AM
Thanks Mud and Sela for reading and talking. I was angry yesterday, I’m still angry, that was emotion from me in those posts. If I wasn’t angry, I’d give up. I know life is difficult, life is complex, but I refuse to stop thinking.

Rather than killing people who don’t appear to care what motivates them, perhaps ‘we’ could stop ‘them’ reproducing until they learn a little about themselves, so that they don’t teach their children to hate too. Controlled reproduction would be better than mass killing I feel. Why do we react badly to the idea i wonder (we seem to)? Yeah, I’m a closet dictator alright :? and if I can’t say things like that here, where can I say it? Not in the local bar, that’s for sure! At least here I don’t get physically slapped for talking. 8)

Butterfly, love the fish! Very cool. And cooling too. :D

...looking at the stuff in the message box...what's the 'insert a flash' above in the tools?? here goes...

haha! that worked well eh? so what is a flash??? no flasher jokes please... :roll:
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on July 22, 2005, 09:00:37 AM
Oh Butterfly!!!

Thankyou so much for the happy day wishes and those cool  8) fishes!!!   Did you make all of those yourself??  They are just soo  8)!  Hope things are going well for you.

Hi P:

Yes, I was feeling really angry when I first heard about those bombings yesterday too!  The thing that put me in a better mood was shortly after that ...hearing that only one person was injured and something about wires hanging out of a backpack of that injured person (??).

That could all be inaccurate......incorrect since the media will sometimes report stuff without verification but I was glad to hear it and thought there couldn't be a whole bunch of injured people....surely that would be known and broadcast??

I'm sorry these dorks are striking your country Portia.  That would make any citizen angry and it even makes us citizens of other countries angry!  My country could be next??  It is maddened to feel so helpless to stop such lunacy!!

I'd say sterilizing the terrorists responsible for such bombings and their associates would be a great idea except for one thing...

They make war not love. :( :x

So there wouldn't be anything for them to miss! :shock: :roll:

Still.........please keep thinking P.  It's great thinkers like you who are bound to come up with some sort of solution!  The world is much better off...a much better place... because of thinking brains like yours!

((((((Portia)))))

Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Portia on July 22, 2005, 03:27:00 PM
Thanks Sela, reminded me of an old pic squirrelled away on the pc somewhere...let's see if I can find it and plonk it here (hope you can see it if I do)....
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Portia on July 22, 2005, 03:31:18 PM
Cool :D I've never done that before! :D sorry all, just kidding around and seeing how this stuff works..
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on July 24, 2005, 05:40:50 PM
Now Portia!!!

I realize you have very strong opinions about stuff but did you have to go to the extent of painting your car all weird like that and driving around all over the place in it, showing off and then shagging, I mean, bragging about it???

(Too funny P!!  Love the pink hearts!!!  Where can I get a vehicle  like it???)

 8) 8) 8) :lol: :lol: :D :shock: :lol: :lol: 8) 8) :D

Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Portia on July 25, 2005, 06:08:32 AM
Hiya Sela! Have to admit, it ain’t my car m’am (oh you knew that already? :roll:) – it was photo’d parked by a Cornish beach. Probably belonged to one of those itinerant surfer types. I love ‘em :D
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on July 25, 2005, 08:28:26 AM
Hi P:

Ya, I knew that.  :roll: Sounds like a nice passtime.....hanging around corny beaches, watching for nomadic surfer types, with weird painted cars, taking pics.  The stuff of real artists!! 8) :D

Stilllll.......I want a car like that.....some day......when I decide to become a travelling surfer type eh.  :shock: :wink: :mrgreen:


Sela  :D
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on July 26, 2005, 12:01:47 AM
Can't remember if I posted this one or not.  If I did, I do appologise for the repeat.

 :D Sela


Vice Presidents and personnel directors of the one hundred largest
corporations were asked to describe their most unusual experience
interviewing prospective employees.


  * A job applicant challenged the interviewer to an arm wrestle.

  * Interviewee wore a Walkman, explaining that she could listen to the
interviewer and the music at the same time.

  * Candidate fell and broke arm during interview.

  * Candidate announced she hadn't had lunch and proceeded to eat a
hamburger and french fries in the interviewers office.

  * Candidate explained that her long-term goal was to replace the
interviewer.

  * Balding Candidate excused himself and returned to the office a few
minutes later wearing a headpiece.

  * Applicant said if he was hired he would demonstrate his loyalty by
having the corporate logo tattooed on his forearm.

  * Applicant interrupted interview to phone her therapist for advice on how
to answer specific interview questions.

  * Candidate brought large dog to interview.

  * Applicant refused to sit down and insisted on being interviewed standing
up.

  * Candidate dozed off during interview.



  The employers were also asked to list the "most unusual" questions that
have been asked by job candidates.


  * "What is it that you people do at this company?"

  * "What is the company motto?"

  * "Why aren't you in a more interesting business?"

  * "Why do you want references?"

  * "Do I have to dress for the next interview?"

  * "I know this is off the subject, but will you marry me?"

  * "Will the company move my rock collection from California to Maryland?"

  * "Does your health insurance cover pets?"

  * "Does your company have a policy regarding concealed weapons?"
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Moira on July 26, 2005, 04:21:10 PM
Hi all1 Thought I'd pass on a joke I heard today...." A man goes to a lingerie store shopping for a sexy expensive gift for his wife. He finally picks a very sheer nightgown costing $500.00. He gives it to his wife and tells her there's something in the box he wants her to model. She opens it, looks at it and decides it's so sheer, she might as well surprise her husband by going downstairs naked. She goes down the stairs striking sexy poses, naked. Her old man looks at her and says " Gee you'd think for $500.00 they'd at least have ironed it".....The funeral is on Saturday.." Hee hee!!
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Butterfly on July 26, 2005, 04:47:21 PM
 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on July 28, 2005, 10:43:53 AM
OLD LOVE.....



Maude and Claude, both 91, lived in a retirement community. They met in
the center and discovered over time that they enjoyed each other's
company.

After several weeks of meeting for coffee, Claude asked Maude out for
dinner and, much to his delight, she accepted. They had a lovely evening.
They dined at the most romantic restaurant in  town.

Despite his age,Claude was still a charmer.Afterward, Claude asked Maude
to join him at his place for an after-dinner drink. Things continued along a
natural course and, age being no  inhibitor,Maude soon joined Claude for a most
enjoyable roll in the hay.

As they were basking in the glow of the magic moments, they were lost for
a time in their own thoughts.

Claude was thinking: "If I'd known she was a virgin, I'd have been more gentle."

Maude was thinking: "If I'd known his parts still worked, I'd have  taken off my pantyhose."


 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on July 29, 2005, 10:27:55 AM
http://www.positivethoughts.com/judging.htm
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Moira on July 29, 2005, 02:37:39 PM
Haha Sela!! Great joke! Enjoy your hols.!!
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Butterfly on July 29, 2005, 03:19:49 PM
There were three people seated at a table, a Russian, an American, and a blond, bragging about what their people have accomplished. 

The Russian said, "we were the first to discovered the moon". 

The American said, "well, we were the first to walk on the moon." 

And the blond said, "Oh yeah, we will be the first to walk on the sun."  The Russian and the American looked at each other with a puzzled expression, and finallly asked, "Isn't the sun going to burn you?" 

The blond said, "We are not that dumb.  We will be going at night!"

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on July 30, 2005, 12:04:47 PM
Hahahahahahaha!!!  Poor blondes!  As if....all blondes are female!!! Hohoho!!

Still...gave me a giggle..thanks Butterfly! :D

Well......I'm taking some of my own advice.  I'm going on a holiday!  For over two weeks!!  The first, of that length, for many, many years!

I'm leaving my troubles behind and taking a break!  I'm going to travel on a long train trip.  Haven't been on a train in years! (other than one hour or less commuter trains).  I'm going across my country to another province, one I have never visited.  I'm sooo looking forward to seeing more of my country!  I love the good things about my country!

I'll be meeting some relatives I have never met before!  It's a great thing because I don't have many relatives and have never met any from this side of the family!  Can you believe it?   Looking really forward to this meeting because we've had such wonderful conversations on the phone and they seem like really warm, gentle people.  (A bit scary too...to be staying in complete stranger's home....but...I'm ignoring that fear!  Good for me eh?  Hey!  I can always leave!)

I'm going to the bottom of the province, the middle of the province and the top of the province, so I should get a fairly good view of the place.   Wish I could go to both east and west coasts but time will not allow.  That's ok.  I think I'll be tired enough when I get back.  (Tired...but hopefully a positive kind of tired...like I feel after taking a few wheel barrels full of weeds out of my garden....spent but satisfied!! :D).

I'm in positive mode now and I plan on staying in it!  This is something I've always wanted to do...dreamed of doing and now I'm about to do it!!

I'm sharing this for those who might think dreams never come true.  Sometimes they do.  You just can't tell!  Keep dreaming anyway!  You can always go there in your head and enjoy that!!

I will miss you (((((((((alll))))))))) and be thinking of you, praying for you, and hoping for good things to come for you!

God Bless!

 :D Sela

PS:  I hope you will post lot's of stuff in this thread, for me to read, when I get back.  I love this thread.  It's got a lot of good stuff in it!  I'm glad I started it.....as "annonymous" and then kept posting as GFN and now Sela.  I was sooo afraid to start a thread and I finally decided to ignor that fear!  Good for me again!  I did something right!!  :shock:  And I'm giving myself credit for it!

There are lots and lots of other good threads too on this board!  Many, many of them!  But this one is special to me because it represents what I believe most.....that laughter is the best medicine!

And there is a lot of laughter in this thread (and some serious discussions too).  So post some good jokes, some cool quotes, some poems, good books, favorite recipes, hot topics, everything and anything.   No worries of hijacking this thread!  It's a highjack special!!  Hi Jack!!  How are ya?

 :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on July 30, 2005, 12:19:00 PM
Hahahahaha!  Again!

I assumed the blonde was female!!  You didn't say that did you Butterfuly!

Joke on me!  (maybe not a joke :shock:....but....at least I noticed my own blunder!!)

Now there's a word:  Blunder

.... usually serious mistake typically caused by ignorance or confusion.


....to move clumsily or blindly.

....to make a stupid, usually serious error in; botch.

.....to utter (something) stupidly or thoughtlessly.

And not only that..but did you know there is an actual noun....blunderer?

Wow!  A whole club!!  I don't mind so much, really.  Far better than the meaning to stumble, doing so with eyes open, on purpose, with a sly, flippant goal to reck ..to say... plan out hurtful, thought out mean stuff club!

The happy blunderer (reminds me of the galloping gourmet for some reason :roll:)........off on a trip....to blunderland  (no not wonderland :?)!!  As I leap...like a gazzelle..... :D :D

(silly me!!   :D :D :D :D)

 :lol: Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: mum on July 30, 2005, 02:25:21 PM
Have fun, Sela. I can imagine those relatives being soooo excited: "we have this cool relative we never knew???? How have we lived without her????" I see you spreading joy wherever you go. 
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on July 30, 2005, 03:41:01 PM
Quote
I see you spreading joy wherever you go.

Thanks Mum!!   :oops:  in a joyful but blunderous way sometimes I do!!! (heehee).  Not everywhere though.

For instance.....phewy to anyone who dares to trip me as I skip along!!  I may fall....but I will get up again....and I might be twice as joyful as I was, when I do!!   Frustrates the heck outta some!

 :D :D :D

Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Butterfly on July 30, 2005, 10:17:36 PM
((((Sela))))

I hope you will have a refreshing and splendid time!  Going on a long train ride sounds like so much fun.  I'd always wanted to do that.  Maybe someday I will.

We will miss you too!!!

Butterfly
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sallying Forth on July 31, 2005, 02:09:10 AM
How does one park their car like this person did? It never fails to amaze me what people can do with their vehicles.

My H and I were eating dinner at this mall and came upon this interesting accident. :lol:
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Stormchild on August 07, 2005, 08:19:12 PM
For everyone who has ended up in court because of an N... may all your Ns get the same lawyer:

http://www.comics.com/comics/fminus/archive/fminus-20050713.html
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: miaxo on August 09, 2005, 11:50:14 AM
Stormchild,

 :lol: :lol:

Thanks...I needed that.

Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Butterfly on August 10, 2005, 02:48:54 PM
BEAUTY SECRETS

For attractive lips, speak words of kindness.
For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people.
For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry.
For beautiful hair, let a child run his/her fingers through it once a day.
For poise, walk with the knowledge that you never walk alone.
People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived,
Reclaimed, and redeemed; never throw out anyone.
Remember, if you ever need a helping hand,
You will find one at the end of each of your arms.
As you grow older, you will discover that you have two hands;
One for helping yourself, and the other for helping others.
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: spyralle on August 12, 2005, 06:35:15 PM
Butterfly
That is very beautiful and sums everythingup really

Thank you
Spyralle x
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Butterfly on August 16, 2005, 06:24:47 PM
Anyway  by Kent Keith

The verses below reportedly were engraved on the wall of Mother Teresa's home for children in Calcutta, and are widely attributed to her. However, according to The New York Times, the verses actually were written by 19-year-old Kent Keith in a motivation booklet for high school counselors published while he was a student at Harvard in 1968.



             ANYWAY

People are often unreasonable, Illogical,
and self-centered;
Forgive them anyway.

If you are kind, people may accuse you
of selfish, ulterior motives;
Be kind anyway.

If you are successful,You will win some
false friends and some true enemies;
Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and frank,
people may cheat you;
Be honest and frank anyway.

What you spend years building,
someone could destroy overnight;
Build anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness,
they may be jealous;
Be happy anyway.

The good you do today,
people will often forget tomorrow;
Do good anyway.

Give the world the best you have,
and it may never be enough;
Give the world the best you have anyway.

You see, in the final analysis,
it is between you and God;
It was never between you and them anyway[/color].


Title: Re: Anything
Post by: gnostic begs to on August 16, 2005, 06:29:52 PM
...begs to suggested a kind of amendment or clarification to
i]People are often unreasonable, Illogical,
and self-centered;
Forgive them anyway."
namely, that if they are unresonable if it be a sin where
they should be rebuked as jesus speaks of in luke 17:3
which tho on the surface seems to only apply to men...
then when they are unreasonable in not repenting from such a rebuke
, they should not be forgiven....
otherwise one could be guilty of enabling bad behaviour...


Anyway  by Kent Keith

The verses below reportedly were engraved on the wall of Mother Teresa's home for children in Calcutta, and are widely attributed to her. However, according to The New York Times, the verses actually were written by 19-year-old Kent Keith in a motivation booklet for high school counselors published while he was a student at Harvard in 1968.



             ANYWAY

People are often unreasonable, Illogical,
and self-centered;
Forgive them anyway.

If you are kind, people may accuse you
of selfish, ulterior motives;
Be kind anyway.

If you are successful,You will win some
false friends and some true enemies;
Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and frank,
people may cheat you;
Be honest and frank anyway.

What you spend years building,
someone could destroy overnight;
Build anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness,
they may be jealous;
Be happy anyway.

The good you do today,
people will often forget tomorrow;
Do good anyway.

Give the world the best you have,
and it may never be enough;
Give the world the best you have anyway.

You see, in the final analysis,
it is between you and God;
It was never between you and them anyway[/color].



Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Butterfly on August 16, 2005, 07:45:36 PM
then when they are unreasonable in not repenting from such a rebuke
, they should not be forgiven....

Not sure what you mean that they should not be forgiven if they don't repent from a rebuke.  Forgiveness has little to do with the violator, but has everything to do with the violated.  Forgiving someone frees oneself from an emotional bond to the perpetrator.  Do you agree?  Forgiveness frees oneself from hate, anger, anxiety, etc.  All of which do harm to our emotional and physical health.

otherwise one could be guilty of enabling bad behaviour...
 
Actually, the contrary can happen.  When the person who did wrong was granted forgiveness by the afflicted individual, he/she may be so moved by the forgiveness granted that it can cause that person to change for the better.  I think the mysterious power of forgiveness can affect both parties.
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on August 19, 2005, 11:18:50 AM
Hi all!

Thought I'd pop in here as I'm finally back from my holiday (which was fantastic, fabulous and fun!! 8) 8) 8)).  Thankyou for your good wishes Butterfly!  I took them with me! :D

I'm so glad to read about "anyway" here in "anything".  Thanks so much for posting that Butterfly!  I liked the beauty secrets too!  Thankyou.

Oh.... gnostic.....is that you Joe?  No worries.  I would like to add to what Butterfly replied to you in regard to enabling poor behaviour.  I am waaaaaaay tooooo big of a sinner to run around rebuking others.  I just don't feel qualified for the job.  But forgiving......now there's something I can choose...something that is my choice and which is far from sinnful.   I think I get what you mean, in a way though.  Like if I saw someone doing some evil thing....I hope I would at least try to say something to encourage an end to it.  I'm not sure though, if a rebuke would be appropriate or effective, even in that circumstance?  Maybe it would?  Maybe not?  I don't know that I'd choose it. :?

It just seems like there are really two issues in this regard.....the issue of choosing to forgive someone for their bad behaviour and the issue of not accepting the bad behaviour/speaking or acting against it??  One is in regard to the person and the other is in regard to their behaviour.  The old.....love the sinner not the sin......thingy eh? :D

The first, for me, is clearly a choice I embrace.  The second, is another choice  I may decide I must try to do something about or I may think I'm in no position to influence.  If I think I have stood in similar shoes, as the sinner, and that I have some understanding into the behaviour/or that I am interested in understanding more about it, I might feel I have some empathy of how the person might be feeling and acting or at least I might want to empathize.  Possibly, I might desire to share what I have experienced...in my own behaviour...or I may want to know more about their's.  It still ...does not seem to me....the most desirable or effective way to encourage a change in the other person's behaviour would be....by rebuking.

Rebuking......rebuke

To criticize or reprove sharply; reprimand.
To check or repress.

This sounds like very old thinking to me.....the way things used to be done.   It's a war-inducing method of slam-bashing to belittle, embarrass, insult, put down, and otherwise severely confront.  I suppose my point is that by rebuking.....I chance sinning and hurting others as I go along.  I may seem as if I consider myself above others.  I might appear a bit n-ish.  It just makes more sence to me to try to encourage change by offering understanding, empathy, encouragement and a kind/helping hand, instead of a sharp reprove ......a positive suggestion rather than a criticism.... an idea on things that might help bring change.....over a verbal kick in the butt.

And if the person.....chooses to ignor or reject such offers......it is their loss.
It has no effect or bearing on my choice or ability to forgive.  It will, however, determine whether or not I choose to offer any further encouragement.  But encouragement seems more digestible than reproval, to me, and so I guess I assume others might find it tastier too.

More bees with honey kinda thing.

Hey....Stormy.  Sorry I can't read your link....it isn't connecting when I click.  Hope all is well with you.

Hope you all will have a wonderful day today.  (((((((all)))))))

Sela  :D

Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Butterfly on August 19, 2005, 01:47:37 PM
Welcome back, Sela. :D  I'm glad to hear you had a fantastic, fabulous, and fun trip! 
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on August 19, 2005, 03:35:49 PM
Hey thanks Butterfly!!

Glad you are still posting here.  Hope things are going better for you.

I am still in awe of your little fishes....they are so cute and so creative!!

Do you paint or do other art?  Just curious and ofcourse...no worries if you don't feel like answering.

 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Butterfly on August 19, 2005, 07:28:46 PM
I am still in awe of your little fishes....they are so cute and so creative!!

They are cute and delightful to view, aren't they?  It isn't my original idea, though.  I had borrowed it from someone else.

Glad you are still posting here.
I only post on the board once in awhile.  There are enough wise folks posting here without me having to put my 2 cents in.  I think my monetary worth is deflating in value.  hehehe, just kidding.

Hope things are going better for you
I'm just hanging...if ya know what I mean.  Thanks for your good thoughts of me. :)
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on August 20, 2005, 08:49:53 AM
Hiya Butterfly:

Glad you borrowed the little fishes anyhow 'cause they are as you say:  delightful to view.

My thoughts and prayers are still with you through this rough time.  Your posts are wise too, so I hope you will assign them their proper worth (waaaaaaay more than 2 cents) and keep contributing, when you feel like it.  I like your voice.

 :D
Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Butterfly on August 20, 2005, 02:11:43 PM
As much as I would like to continue to contribute to this board, I best need to focus on my studies as my national board exam is quickly approaching.  It's been such a blessing for me to have found this board and be a small part of it.  You all are really extraordinary people here and an inspiration to me.

Sela, I've been especially blessed by you.  Your words of affirmation and kindness to me mean more to me than you will ever know!  Especially when I'm in the valley.  I believe you have the gift of encouragement.  You use it so well.  :)

I would like to leave with the following poem.  It speaks so well of how I feel about people on this board.  Here it is:

"SOME PEOPLE"

Some people come into our lives and quickly go.
Some people move our souls to dance.
They awaken us to understanding with the passing whisper of their wisdom.
Some people make the sky more beautiful to gaze upon.
They stay in our lives for a while,
Leave footprints in our hearts,
And we are never, ever the same.

**Flavia Weedn
[/color]
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Brigid on August 20, 2005, 07:05:15 PM
Very lovely, Butterfly.

Brigid
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on August 21, 2005, 11:53:35 PM
Oh Butterfly!

Thankyou so much for your kind and generous words to me.  I'm glad mine have helped you some too.  What a lovely inspiring poem !!!  Thankyou for posting it!!

Copy...paste....copy....paste....

 :D  Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on August 23, 2005, 10:17:04 AM
Hey Portia!

Hope you read this!

Somewhere, you posted that you were glad that I am back and hoped I had a good holiday but do you think I can find where that is????? :? :? :lol:

Thanks P for that warm welcome back.  yep.  The holiday was great and we really enjoyed ourselves.  Haven't done one of those for years so it was truly lovely.

Back to the grind now though but with maybe a tad more gusto than before. :D

Hope you are well and things are going good for you.

 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on August 24, 2005, 11:15:03 AM
Two things made me smile this morning already:

One.....a joke I heard on the radio:

"You may be a redneck if you and your dad take the same bus to school every day."

and

Sipping my coffee and watching my 9 month old puppy chase butterflies....doing back flips and falling in all directions...with a lolling tongue and what looked like a smile....regardless of her futile effort and failure to catch even one!

Hope you will all enjoy your day!

 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on August 25, 2005, 10:06:21 AM
Pet lovers will appreciate this one I bet:

Heaven

 A man and his dog were walking along a road. The man was enjoying the
 scenery, when it suddenly occurred to him that he was dead.

 He remembered dying, and that the dog walking beside him had been dead
 for years. He wondered where the road was leading them.

 After a while, they came to a high white stone wall along one side of
 the road. It looked like fine marble. At the top of a long hill, it was
broken  by a tall arch that glowed in the sunlight.

 When he was standing before it he saw a magnificent gate in the arch
 that looked like mother-of-pearl, and the street that led to the gate
looked  like pure gold. He and the dog walked toward the gate, and as he got
closer, he saw a man at a desk to one side.

 When he was close enough, he called out, "Excuse me, where are we?"

 "This is Heaven, sir," the man answered.

 "Wow! Would you happen to have some water?" the man asked.

 "Of course, sir. Come right in, and I'll have some ice water brought
 right  up."

 The man gestured, and the gate began to open. "Can my friend," gesturing
 toward his dog, "come in, too?" the traveller asked.

 "I'm sorry, sir, but we don't accept pets."

 The man thought a moment and then turned back toward the road and
 continued  the way he had been going with his dog.

 After another long walk, and at the top of another long hill, he came to
 a  dirt road leading through a farm gate that looked as if it had never
 been closed. There was no fence.

 As he approached the gate, he saw a man inside, leaning against a tree
 and  reading a book.

 "Excuse me!" he called to the man. "Do you have any water?"

 "Yeah, sure, there's a pump over there, come on in."

 "How about my friend here?" the traveler gestured to the dog.

 "There should be a bowl by the pump."

 They went through the gate, and sure enough, there was an old-fashioned
 hand  pump with a bowl beside it.

 The traveler filled the water bowl and took a long drink himself,  then
 he  gave some to the dog.

 When they were full, he and the dog walked back toward the man who was
 standing by the tree.

 "What do you call this place?" the traveler asked.

 "This is Heaven," he answered.

 "Well, that's confusing," the traveler said. "The man down the road said
 that was Heaven, too."

 "Oh, you mean the place with the gold street and pearly gates? Nope.
 That's  hell."

 "Doesn't it make you mad for them to use your name like that?"

 "No, we're just happy that they screen out the folks who would leave
 their  best friends behind."



 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Butterfly on August 26, 2005, 11:18:01 PM
Rules for the School of Life

1. You are enrolled in a full-time informal school called Life.  Each day you will have the opportunity to learn lessons. You may like the lessons or think your assignments are stupid and irrelevant but each one has a purpose that is special for you.

2. An assignment will be repeated until you have learned that lesson. Do  you find yourself experiencing the same (unpleasant) event again and again? One of your current learning projects is to discover whatever you need to do so it either stops happening or no longer affects you .

3. New assignments and projects may appear before you are ready, but you will only learn from them when you are ready - If you are not, you will do whatever you need to do to avoid learning - That may be how it has to be for the present.  Don’t worry, when you are truly ready they will be presented again.

4. Your assignments will be presented to you in various forms - There are no coincidences. Whatever is going on around you is happening today because it’s part of your lesson for today.

5. Any task that presents you with a difficult question will offer teachers to help you. The best teachers guide you towards a number of choices rather than one ‘right’ answer. They will help you decide for yourself which answers will work best for you in the long run.

6. There are no mistakes, only lessons. - Growing is a process of experimenting,   of trial and error. You can discover as much from a ‘failed’ experiment as you can from the experiment that ultimately ‘works’.

7. Learning lessons does not end. - There is no part of life that does not contain its lessons.  Once you have  learned one lesson you move on to the next one.  If you are still alive, there are still new lessons to be learned.

8. Learning and growing means moving from “here” to “there”. - But  once  your last “there” has become your new “here”, you will be given another “there” that will again be better than “here”.

9. Others are mirrors of you. - If you  love, desire, hate or reject something about another person it reflects something you love, desire, hate or reject about yourself.  Learning to see this clearly is one of the greatest lessons of all.

10. The answers to Life’s problems are already inside you.  All you need to do is look, listen and trust.  You have all the tools and resources you need.  What you do with them is up to you. What you make of your life is up to you and how you do it is your choice.

11. You will forget all this, until you realise that learning these rules is also one  of your lessons.

Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on August 27, 2005, 11:02:29 AM
Thanks for those rules Butterfly! 

I read a similar list of rules (think I even posted them in this thread somewhere??) but they weren't as detailed as yours, if I recall correctly.

I like this list.  It's worth thinking about and contains much wisdom, imo.

I'm away for awhile now.  Keeping you and others here in my prayers.

 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Butterfly on August 28, 2005, 12:12:24 AM
We all know wisdom when we read it or hear it.  But what do you think wisdom really is?  It seems like a word that is as profound and broad in meaning as the word love.  However, can the word wisdom be explained in a concrete definition?

Just curious of what ya'll thought on the word.

Butterfly
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on September 07, 2005, 10:41:22 AM
Hiya Butterfly:

Pretty interesting that I was included in a list of people offering wisdom, in another thread.  Being told that made me want to argue...."oh no, no.  I'm not wise.  Jeepers, I'm a dope.  Haven't you figgered that out yet?"  but I didn't write that (had to fight great powerful urges not to :D...seriously).

So.....there are two topics here now (for me to think about).

1.  What is wisdom....which you brought up, Butterfly.

and

2.  Why do I have such a hard time digesting compliments?

1.  My definition of wisdom has always been fairly simple.  Wisdom, imo, is knowledge and experience. 

When I look it up:

"The ability to discern or judge what is true, right, or lasting; insight.

Common sense; good judgment.

The sum of learning through the ages; knowledge."

To me, common sense is a totally different thing but I guess it would be hard to be wise without having common sense.  Never thought of that before. :shock:

I think we all have knowledge and experience and therefore wisdom.  Even children have wisdom, just less of it.  Elderly people, imo, are definately wise.

As to the ability to judge what is true?  Right?  Lasting?  Having insight?

Maybe I'm not so wise, afterall?? :?  I've made some fairly poor judgements, believed lies, done the wrong thing, chose to have relationships that didn't last and have missed the true nature of plenty of stuff.  Sometimes, I've been wise too, about some things. :?

I agree with you Butterfly.  Wisdom does seem like a word that is profound and broad with meaning.  Thankyou for saying that and instigating my brain cells (they need the odd jump start eh? :D).

Truly, I'd like to hear more about what other people think about wisdom too.

2.  As to why I have such a tough time accepting compliments???  I know it's because I was always put down as a child and throughout a good part of my adulthood.  Maybe most of my life.  I was stubborn and refused to believe many of the putdowns (at least consciously, I argued in my head and said stuff like:  "That's not true!" or "That's a lie" and "I refuse to accept/believe that!").  Maybe to deflect the pain of other people's words?  Maybe because the criticisms just seemed so insane?  :shock:  Maybe because children are wise too sometimes?? :shock: :shock: :D

And I hardly remember getting a compliment.  The times I do remember, were at school, from teachers and I clearly remember how embarassed I felt, how I blushed, how I wished the person wouldn't say that. :? :? :?

Maybe because it was opposite of what I was getting from those who were supposed to love me?  Maybe because believing the teacher would require me to trust the teacher above those who were supposed to love me? (and if I can't trust those who are supposed to love me, how can I trust a teacher???)   Maybe that was just too scarey?? :shock: :shock: :shock:

I don't know.  Honestly, I guess I must have taken the constant criticism to heart, some place deep inside and therefore...compliments were/are rejected too because I just don't believe what people say about me?  I've been so busy defending myself against the criticisms that the compliments are too shocking... :shock:...don't feel real....I have no defense against that...no way to really reject nice words, words I "should" find good and comforting.

How insane is that?    Maybe it's typical of abused kids?  Or maybe I'm just not as wise as people sometimes say I am because if I were, you'd think I'd be able to figger out a sincere compliment and take it to heart, enjoy it, really feel it and embrace it?  I do appreciate it but it doesn't sink in.  I'm better at batting away personal comments period.  Like a good kick boxer.  I induce my own voicelessnes by wanting to say:  "Don't say anything about me to me and I won't have to speak!"
(but somewhere deep inside saying:  "More!  More!  Keep 'em comin'!  I need the words!  I need the love behind the words!  Those who were supposed to love me.....didn't!")

 :? :shock: Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on September 09, 2005, 03:09:17 PM
Speaking of wise cracks:


                                                     Brunette Joke

                              Welll..............a brunette was driving along a
                              country road, one beautiful, sunny day, when up
                              ahead, she spotted a farmer, crossing the road
                              with his herd of sheep.  Upon arriving at the
                              sheep and the farmer, the brunette was forced to
                              stop her car and wait.  She got out of the car and
                              walked up to the farmer to chat, as there were
                              many sheep to get across the country road.  In
                              trying to make conversation, the brunette said to
                              the farmer:

                              "That's one heck of a herd of sheep you got there,
                              sir."
                              "Oh, yes", said the farmer.
                              Brunette:  "Hey! Here's a bet.  If I can guess how
                              many sheep you have sir, can I have one of them?"

                              Farmer, hesitating:  "Uh...well....I guess so, but
                              I warn you, there's a lot of sheep here.  It's
                              hard to guess exactly."

                              "That's ok" said the brunette.

                              She then bagan consentrating seriously and
                              scanning the herd, all along counting to herself
                              and calculating carefully.   Finally, she looked
                              at the farmer and said:  "There's 641 sheep there
                              sir!"

                              Farmer:  "Oh my goodness!  You're absolutely
                              correct!.....I can't believe it!....That's
                              amazing!  Well, ok then, go ahead and get your
                              sheep.  You won the bet."

                              Off went the brunette happily to get her sheep
                              from his herd.  She returned very quickly, with an
                              animal under her arm, and with a wave to the
                              farmer, was preparing to get back into her car,
                              when the farmer hollered:

                              "Wait a minute there.  Listen, I have a bet for
                              you."  The brunette stopped short and stared
                              blankly at the farmer, as he continued:

                              "Tell ya what.   If I can guess your real hair
                              colour, can I have my dog back?"
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Plucky on September 09, 2005, 03:46:36 PM
About accepting compliments.
It's hard for a lot of people.  I once taught a self esteem class for underprivileged children.  One of the items was learning how to accept compliments.
The proper response to a  ciompliment is, "thank you".
Not "this old thing?" or "Not really" or any variation.
So we would go around and give each other compliments and the recipient had to say "thank you". That is all.  It was great!  We came up with great compliments for each other and you cannot imagine how hard it was to remember to just say thank you and not deny the coompliment.
I try to implement this in my own life.  And it is still hard.  But try it!  It is pretty simple. 
We could have a thread for it.
a pollyanna
Plucky
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on September 09, 2005, 06:43:37 PM
Hi Plucky:

Thanks for the info re proper response.  As far as I am aware, usually, I have no problem responding to compliments.  I do usually say thankyou.  Maybe I respond imporperly by often saying:  that is very kind of you, or too kind, or I really appreciate it?   Maybe that's ok.  It seems ok to me.  Sometimes I have said, oh no, no, I don't deserve that one and have gone on to explain exactly why.  That would fit in the improper response bin, according to what you were teaching those kids.  I won't take credit I don't deserve any more than I will take blame that isn't mine.  For me, that's proper.

But it's internalizing compliments that I have a big problem with.   Do you know what I mean?    I know it wouldn't be good to suck up every kind word and become real big on myself, inflated or full of myself, N-like to be sure.

But even once in awhile, when I know I've done a good job and someone says:  "Hey.  You did a good job", I wish I could feel like I did a good job.  Instead, I start wondering???  Questioning?  Myself...my actions....did I really do a good job?  What could I have done better?  Is that person sincere saying that?  Or just trying to soften me up for some purpose?  Maybe I didn't do such a good job and I don't even see it?

All these silly thoughts, which I know are silly, enter my head.  I argue with them and am usually able to quiet them but it just bugs me that I have to bother and that I don't just accept at least the good things people say once in awhile.  I always have to second guess and double check and make sure and look for proof etc.

Maybe it's just a habit from being criticised so much....any personal statement feels like a criticism, even nice comments??  I don't know.   I feel stupid, in that case, for not being able to tell the difference.

Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Butterfly on September 09, 2005, 10:32:56 PM
...or maybe it's from unconsciously thinking that the nice thing you did that someone had complimented you on, is something that you feel doesn't totally matter, therefore, it is difficult to fully accept ppl's compliment of it.

I don't know, it is just a thought.
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Plucky on September 10, 2005, 02:22:30 AM
Hey Sela,
At the risk of being boring and simplistic, also repetitive, I would say that once you get a compliment, you are wracking your brain to see whether you deserve it or not, and your inner voice is very critical and hard to satisfy.  Lots of times you are able to prove to your satisfaction that you do not deserve the compliment, and you feel obligated to set the person straight right away.

I have a hard time thinking that the person offering you a compliment really wants to hear a detailed analysis of why the compliment was not deserved.  Unless someone says your cookies are delicious and you did not bake the cookies, someone else did, you should go ahead and accept the compliment.  That is the other person's opinion, they are entitled to it, and they might just be right!  If the cookies are delicious, and you bought them, just say thank you!

Plucky
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Plucky on September 10, 2005, 02:24:15 AM
I guess I sound a little preachy so I'm sorry about that. It's just a bad habit from teaching the class!
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on September 11, 2005, 09:54:26 AM
Hi all:

Butterfly wrote:

Quote
....is something that you feel doesn't totally matter...

I'm not sure, it could be, but that made me think more of what I really believe might be it...usually, it's not a big deal, nothing most people wouldn't do, or even, in my mind, something I would expect myself to do automatically....so why the compliment???   In that way, as you say, it doesn't really matter, so why make a big deal out of it??

Plucky wrote:

Quote
your inner voice is very critical and hard to satisfy.

Probably very true.

Quote
I have a hard time thinking that the person offering you a compliment really wants to hear a detailed analysis of why the compliment was not deserved.


This made me giggle!   :D  How crazy eh?  Ofcourse, I'm sure you're right.

Quote
That is the other person's opinion, they are entitled to it, and they might just be right!

Maybe, I could drill this into my head.  I'm sure it would really help.  Thanks Plucky.

Thanks Butterfly.

 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on September 14, 2005, 04:34:03 PM
Now this made me laugh:

If my body were a car

If my body were a car, this is the time I would be thinking about trading it
in for a newer model. I've got bumps and dents and scratches in my finish
and my paint job is getting a little dull, but that's not the worst of it.
 
My fenders are too wide to be considered stylish. They were once as sleek as
a little MG; now they look more like an old Buick.
 
My seat cushions have split open at the seams. My seats are sagging. Seat
belts? I gave up all belts when Krispy Cremes opened a shop in my
neighborhood.!
 
Air bag's ?Forget it. The only bags I have these days are under my eyes. Not
counting the saddlebags, of course.
I have soooooo many miles on my odometer. Sure, I've been many places and
seen many things, but when's the last time an appraiser factored life
experiences against depreciation?
 
My headlights are out of focus and it's especially hard to see things up
close.
My traction is not as graceful as it once was. I slip and slide and skid and
bump into things even in the best of weather.
 
My whitewalls are stained with varicose veins.
It takes me hours to reach my maximum speed.
My fuel rate burns inefficiently.
But here's the worst of it -almost every time I sneeze, cough or
sputter..... either my radiator leaks or my exhaust backfires.



 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Moira on September 15, 2005, 03:30:42 PM
Hi all! totally off topic- how unusual for me!!- but wanted to share something with you. I'm an artist in my spare time and have several tattoos. Not exactly a biker broad- yet! Hee hee! Anyway, I just got a tattoo Monday that I designed awhile ago and have just been waiting as when to get it and when it would have the most meaning for me. I call it my recovery tattoo. Recovery from not only addiction, but more timely, recovery from destructive N relationships- both family and partners. It's a lotus and the Irish word for serenity. Lotus has so many powerful meanings. Simply, I also view it as beauty coming from ugliness- lotus grows in mud. I believe that tattoos have powerful impact on personal energy- ie ones of death, skulls etc vs. ones signifying courage, change, love, resurrection etc. A little new agey, but it works for me! Later! Moira
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: miaxo on September 15, 2005, 03:50:32 PM
Moria

You'll have to post a pic of it.
Title: Re: Driving
Post by: Sallying Forth on September 16, 2005, 02:46:55 AM
Over and over God has worked all things together for good in my life. Driving a car is another one of those demonstrations of that. Back in November I started a nutrition and fitness program based on several different programs. All that has paid off in big dividends. There were things I couldn't do because I had zero stamina and tons of muscular pain. I didn't have the muscle strength either.

For years I hadn't driven a car outside the 5 1/2 square miles of my town due to extreme PTSD symptoms and Fibromyalgia. However I kept my driver's license in hope that some day I would be able to drive again. I mentioned that I got a car.

Because of my nutrition and fitness program I am now able to drive a car without fatigue and muscle pain. Being stronger has enabled me to shop for myself again - carry and lift heavy loads and travel the long distance to shopping. It's a very long distance (135 miles round trip) to any major shopping from where I live. :)

Plus I no longer have the extreme PTSD symptoms which plagued me before. I still have some of the symptoms. However the major ones which bothered me the most, anxiety and panic attacks and flashbacks, are no longer a problem.

I had to get some prescriptions filled today and was able to do it all by myself. This is the first time in over 17 years that I have done this alone.  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Brigid on September 16, 2005, 08:58:21 AM
Sally,
Congratulations.  :D :D  Good for you to have done the work to get you to this point. I hope it keeps getting better.

Brigid
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: miaxo on September 17, 2005, 09:53:51 PM
Just a funny.

On my AOL buddy list I have a category titled Narcissist............and guess who I have listed......X N.

I have him on there b/c whenever he is online for any length of time it is b/c he is preparing to send me a nasty.  (He doesn't go on often...only to cause me grief).  I know to brace myself for some BS when i see him online.

Anyway, the Narcissist category makes me laugh a little.  God knows, I need the laugh.

I recently reopened my email to him since  he digs his hole deeper and deeper with his nonsense.....from a legal perspective.
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: mum on September 18, 2005, 10:56:49 AM
oooh, Miaxo, good idea. How do you do that? Does it tell you when he is online? (my exN uses aol, too). I'I save all his email in a folder I can't say the name of...which is a spoof of his email name (which by the way is all in capitals...like he is yelling!!!). Mostly he doesn't say much anymore....(too bad, but I think his lawyer told him to shut up)
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: mum on September 18, 2005, 10:59:01 AM
OOPS. must've hit return....I was going to say that knowing when he is online or even caring might not be something I will do, as I find any thinking about him and what he is up to, to be counterproductive to my getting away from the negative energy exchange with him...... but how do you do it anyway  :shock:(I am a computer moron)
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: miaxo on September 19, 2005, 07:16:28 AM
Under Community...click onto buddy list.  Once you have your buddy list up....click on the setup button. 
Then you can add his screen name as well as create an endearing category for him.  :wink:
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on September 21, 2005, 09:07:49 AM
 If you didn't see this on the Tonight show, I hope you're sitting down when you read it. This is probably the funniest date story ever, first date or not!!! We have all had bad dates... but this takes the cake. This just tells you how tough it is to be single nowadays. This was on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno.

Jay went into the audience to find the most embarrassing first date that a woman  ever had. The winner described her worst first date experience. There was absolutely no question as to why her tale took the prize!

She said it was midwinter... snowing and quite cold... and the guy had her skiing in the mountains outside Salt Lake City, Utah. It was a day trip (no overnight). They were strangers, after all, and truly had never met before. The outing was fun but relatively uneventful until they were headed home late that afternoon.

They were driving back down the mountain, when she gradually began to realize that she should not have had that extra latte. They were about hour away from anywhere with a rest room and in the middle of nowhere her companion suggested she try to hold it, which she did for a while.  Unfortunately, because of the heavy snow and slow going, there came a point where she told him that he had better stop and let her go beside the road, or it would be the front seat of his car.

They stopped and she quickly crawled out beside the car, yanked her pants down and started. In the deep snow she didn't have good footing, so she let her butt rest against the rear fender to steady herself. Her companion stood on the side of the car watching for traffic and indeed was a real gentleman and refrained from peeking. All she could think; about was the relief she felt despite the rather embarrassing nature of the situation. Upon finishing however, she soon became aware of another sensation. As she bent to pull up her pants, the young lady discovered her buttocks were firmly glued against the car's fender.

Thoughts of tongues frozen to pump handles immediately came to mind as she attempted to disengage her flesh from the icy metal. It was quickly apparent that she had a brand new problem due to the extreme cold. Horrified by her plight and yet aware of the humor of the moment, she answered her date's concerns about what is taking so long with a reply that indeed, she was freezing her butt off and in need of some assistance!  He came around the car as she tried to cover herself with her sweater then, as she looked imploringly into his eyes, he burst out laughing.  She too, got the giggles and when they finally managed to compose themselves, they assessed her dilemma.

Obviously, as hysterical as the situation was, they also were faced with real problem. Both agreed it would take something hot to free her chilly cheeks from the grip of the icy metal! Thinking about what had gotten  her into the predicament in the first place, both quickly realized
that there was only one way to get her free.

So, as she looked the other way, her first-time date proceeded to unzip his pants and wiz her butt off the fender.  As the audience screamed in laughter, she took the Tonight Show prize hands down... or perhaps that should be pants down....

And you thought your first date was embarrassing.


Jay Leno's comment..."This gives a whole new meaning to being P*ssed off."
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Moira on September 22, 2005, 03:38:47 PM
Hi Sela! Loved your Leno story! I saw that episode- too funny! I wonder if they ever had a second date and how could you top that?!! I saw an amusing interview on Jon Stewart with novelist John Irving( wrote " According To Garp" etc). He was telling a story about his mentor- Kurt Vennegut. He had Kurt over for dinner and he began to wheeze and choke and couldn't speak. John- who is only 5'7( Kurt is over 6' tall) immediately knocked K. to the floor and attempted to straddle him from behind to do Heimlich. He proceeded with great difficulty and finally K. was able to blurt out that he wasn't choking and in fact had emphysema! Moira
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on September 23, 2005, 10:13:47 AM
Hi Moira and all:

Hahahahaha!  Those  :oops: moments in life do one good thing for us eh?  They give us something to laugh at ourselves about. :D

Like this poor lady:

Always wear clean underwear in public

Always wear clean underwear in public, especially when working under you vehicle... From the NORTHWEST FLORIDA Daily News comes this story of a Crestview couple who drove their car to Wal-Mart, only to have their car break down in the parking lot. The man told his wife to carry on with the shopping while he fixed the car in the lot. The wife returned later to see a small group of people near the car. On closer inspection, she saw a pair of male legs protruding from under the chassis. Although the man was in shorts, his lack of underpants turned private parts into glaringly public ones. Unable to stand the embarrassment, she dutifully stepped forward, quickly put her hand UP his shorts, and tucked everything back into place. On regaining her feet, she looked across the hood and found herself staring at her husband who was standing idly by. The mechanic, however, had to have three stitches in his forehead.


 :D :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: amethyst on September 23, 2005, 10:32:26 AM
Hi Moira and all:

Hahahahaha!  Those  :oops: moments in life do one good thing for us eh?  They give us something to laugh at ourselves about. :D

Like this poor lady:

Always wear clean underwear in public

Always wear clean underwear in public, especially when working under you vehicle... From the NORTHWEST FLORIDA Daily News comes this story of a Crestview couple who drove their car to Wal-Mart, only to have their car break down in the parking lot. The man told his wife to carry on with the shopping while he fixed the car in the lot. The wife returned later to see a small group of people near the car. On closer inspection, she saw a pair of male legs protruding from under the chassis. Although the man was in shorts, his lack of underpants turned private parts into glaringly public ones. Unable to stand the embarrassment, she dutifully stepped forward, quickly put her hand UP his shorts, and tucked everything back into place. On regaining her feet, she looked across the hood and found herself staring at her husband who was standing idly by. The mechanic, however, had to have three stitches in his forehead.


 :D :D Sela

OMG, Sela!! Snort, snicker, roflmao!  Remember that commercial..."parts is parts???"  Love the "p*sed off" story and the emphysema story too.

Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on September 28, 2005, 09:37:00 AM
Hi all:

Ya....those gave me a good giggle too Amethyst.  I don't recall that commercial but there are a few that I do that really are funny.  I used to always say:

"I want that job!!  Sitting in a room, like Dick Van Dyke and thinking up ridiculous commercials!!"

I bet it's hard work too. 

On a more serious note:

The Philosopher

I saw him sitting in his door,
Trembling as old men do;
His house was old; his barn was old,
And yet his eyes seemed new.

His eyes had seen three times my years
And kept a twinkle still,
Though they had looked at birth and death
And three graves on a hill.

"I will sit down with you," I said,
"And you will make me wise;
Tell me how you have kept the joy
Still burning in your eyes."

Then like an old-time orator
Impressively he rose;
"I make the most of all that comes,
The least of all that goes."

The jingling rhythm of his words
Echoes as old songs do,
Yet this had kept his eyes alight
Till he was ninety-two.

~by Sara Teasdale~

Have a great day all!

 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on October 04, 2005, 10:28:59 AM
This just reminded me of Ning the N:

The difference between cows and cars:

A wise old farmer went to town to buy a pickup truck that he
saw advertised in the paper for a certain price.  After telling
the salesman which truck he wanted, they sat down to do the
paperwork.  The salesman handed the farmer the bill, and the
farmer declared,

"This isn't the price I saw!"

The salesman went on to tell the wise old farmer how he was
getting extras such as power brakes, power windows, special
tires etc, and that was what took the price up.  The farmer
needed the truck badly, paid the price and went home.


A few months later, the salesman called up the farmer and said,

"My son is in the 4-H and he needs a cow for a project.  Do you
have any for sales?"

The farmer said, "Yes, I have a few cows, and I would sell for
$500.oo apiece.  Come look at them and take your pick."

The salesman said he and his would be right out.

After spending a few hours in the field checking out all the
farmer's cows, the two decided on one and the salesman
proceeded to write out a check for $500.oo.

The farmer said -
"Now wait a minute, that's not the final price of the cow.
You're getting extras with it and you have to pay for that too."

"What extras?" asked the salesman.

Below is the list the farmer gave the salesman for the final
price of the cow:

Basic cow ----------------$500.oo
Two tone exterior------$ 45.oo
Extra stomach-----------$ 75.oo
Product storing
Equipment-----------------$ 60.oo
Straw compartment$--$120.oo
4 Spigots@$10 each---$ 40.oo
Leather upholstery-----$125.oo
Dual horns-----------------$ 45.oo
Automatic fly swatter--$ 38.oo
Fertilizer attachment---$185.oo

Grand total-----------------$1,233.oo


From:  "Voice of the farmer", Rural Roots, January 27, 2004
(A Canadian magazine).

 :D :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Moira on October 07, 2005, 05:15:56 PM
Hi all! This Mon. Oct 10th is Canadian Thanksgiving and I just want to list some of the things I'm very thankful for! I'm thankful that my ex N is completely out of the picture- to my mind- and I have no fuzzy warm feelings towards him at all. Am grateful I'm no longer preoccupied 24/7 with homicidal fantasies and up at night pacing the floor- not as if he's losing a minute of sleep! Grateful I have a new job and left a toxic workplace. Grateful I'm clean and sober today and have wonderful healthy support. Grateful I'm meeting non toxic well adjusted people and making new friends. Grateful I can sleep at night and can eat healthily and am starting to gain some weight. Grateful that my depression is much lessened. Grateful that I'm committed to and working daily on getting my shit together and dealing with my issues to break old self destructive choices and patterns. Above all, thankful to all of you for being here and am wishing any other Canadians out there a happy turkey day! Hee hee!!! Hugs Moira
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Plucky on October 09, 2005, 12:32:14 AM
Happy Turkey Day, Moira!
Make sure to pig out on behalf of all of us who won't get a chance to.  Or at least, who won't have a proper occasion to!
Plucky
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on October 12, 2005, 01:08:02 PM
Speaking of turkey.....I'm at the library again.

Yes, I cooked a ten pounder (small one) up at our cabin, this past week end, with all the trimmings and the scent drifted out doors and attracted all the neighbours (all 2 of them).  It was quiet and lovely and gorgeous and I have to admit.....I never want to leave there but I usually have to get back and do life (it's not like life up there...it's like....something better).  The leaves were just getting to mosaic stage...all yellows, reds, oranges, pinks, light and dark greens as well as browns, beiges and some mixed up colours in single leaves.  My mil and I gathered arm loads of them to bring home and put in pots on our front steps (our fancy fall displays) and we were careful to avoid those really, really bright red and quite lovely looking poison ivy plants (and there are zillions of them!!).  Making turkey soup of what's left today and that's good bye to another Thanksgiving Turkey feast.  Ta ta!

I'm very thankful for my health, my family, my pets, my nieghbours and many comforts.

Thanks Moira, same to you and all.

 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sallying Forth on October 14, 2005, 05:52:45 PM
The leaves were just getting to mosaic stage...all yellows, reds, oranges, pinks, light and dark greens as well as browns, beiges and some mixed up colours in single leaves.

That is my favorite part of fall, the leaves turning beautiful colors. We've had some gorgeous colors this year in the Pacific Northwest. I've got a tree out my west window which changes everyday. It started with yellows and greens. Now yellows, oranges, pinks and reds. Still a little green. Everyday I go outside and stand on my deck to look at it.
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on October 19, 2005, 12:03:04 PM
Hi Sally and all:

Oh I love the fall!  It's so beautiful here with all the gorgeous trees.  Good to hear you go out on your deck, Sally, and enjoy that tree every day!    There is a pink tree across the road from our place!!  It's marvelous!  It's also been doing the same as your tree....changing and changing until finally.........it's the most lovely bright pink I've ever seen.  What a wonder!

Enjoy your day all!

 :D  Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on October 28, 2005, 01:10:46 PM
Can't remember if I've posted this one or not but imo, it's worth re-posting if I already have:

Do It Anyway
 - Author unknown

People are often unreasonable, illogical, and self-centered; forgive them anyway.
If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives; be kind anyway.
If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies; succeed anyway.
If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you; be honest and frank anyway.
What you spend years building, someone could destroy overnight; build anyway.
If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous; be happy anyway.
The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow; do good anyway.
Give the world the best you have, and it may never be enough; give the world the best you've got anyway.
You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and God; it was never between you and them anyway.

Have a great weekend all!

 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on November 04, 2005, 11:53:58 AM
A Day in Hell

One day a guy dies and finds himself in hell. As he is wallowing in despair he has his first meeting with a demon...

Demon: Why so glum  chum?
Guy:  What do you think?  I'm in hell.
Demon:  Hell's not so bad.  We actually have a lot of fun down here...you a drinkin' man?
Guy:  Sure,  I love to drink.  Love the drinks.
Demon:  Well you're gonna love Mondays then.  On  Mondays that's all we do is drink.  Whiskey,  tequila,  Guinness,  wine coolers,  diet tab, and fresca...we drink till we throw up and then we drink some more!
Guy:  Gee that sounds great.

Demon:  You a smoker?
Guy: You better believe it!  Love the smoking.
Demon:  Alright!  You're gonna love Tuesdays.  We get the finest cigars from all over the world and smoke our lungs out.  If you get cancer - no biggie - you're already dead remember?
Guy:  Wow...that's...awesome!

Demon:  I bet you like to gamble.
Guy:  Why  yes  as a matter of fact  I do.  Love the gambling.
Demon:  Cause Wednesday you can gamble all you want.  Craps, Blackjack, Roulette, Poker, Slots, whatever...  If you go Bankrupt...well you're dead anyhow.

Demon:   You into drugs?
Guy:  Are you kidding?  Love drugs! You don't mean...
Demon:  That's right!  Thursday is drug day.  Help yourself to a great big bowl of crack. or smack.  Smoke a doobie the size of a submarine. You can do all the drugs you want and if ya overdose - that's right - you're dead - who cares!  O.D.!!
Guy:  Yowza!  I never realized Hell was such a swingin' place!!

Demon: You gay?
Guy:  Uh  no.

Demon:  Ooooh  (grimaces) you're really gonna hate Fridays.




 :shock: :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Just a guest on November 10, 2005, 12:04:08 AM
Just want to share this  :)


Believe in Yourself
 
    
Sometimes people come into your life and you know right away that they were
meant to be there.  To serve some sort of purpose, teach you a lesson or
help figure out who you are or who you want to become.

You never know who these people may be but when you lock eyes with them, you
know that very moment that they will affect your life in some profound way.
And sometimes things happen to you at the time that may seem horrible,
painful and unfair, but in reflection you realize that without overcoming
those obstacles you would have never realized your potential, strength, will
power or heart.

Everything happens for a reason. Nothing happens by chance or by means of
good luck. Illness, injury, love, lost moments of true greatness and sheer
stupidity all occur to test the limits of your soul. Without these small
tests, life would be like a smoothly paved, straight, flat road to nowhere.
Safe and comfortable but dull and utterly pointless.

The people you meet affect your life. The successes and downfalls that you
experience can create who you are, and the bad experiences can be learned
from. In fact, they are probably the most poignant and important ones.

If someone hurts you, betrays you or breaks your heart, forgive them because
they have helped you learn about trust and the importance of being cautious
to whom you open your heart.

If someone loves you, love them back unconditionally, not only because they
love you, but because they are teaching you to love and to open your heart
and eyes to little things. Make every day count.

Appreciate every moment and take from it everything that you possibly can,
for you may never be able to experience it again.

Talk to people you have never talked to before, and actually listen. Let
yourself fall in love, break free and set your sights high.

Hold your head up because you have every right to. Tell yourself you are a
great individual and believe in yourself, for if you don't believe in
yourself, no one else will believe in you. Create your own life and then go
out and live it.

"If you take your eyes off your goals, all you see are obstacles."
 
 
 Butterfly
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on November 11, 2005, 09:17:47 AM
Butterfly, that was lovely.  Thankyou.

Printing that one out and passing it on too.  Hope all is well with you.



Since today is Rememberance Day.......



In Flanders Fields

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John McCrae (1872-1918)



Lest we forget.

 :(  Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sallying Forth on November 11, 2005, 07:39:04 PM
Thanks Butterfly. I put that one in my journal to read again and again.
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Butterfly on November 12, 2005, 10:57:52 PM
I'm glad you were blessed by that poem.  I know I was.

Sela wrote:
Hope all is well with you.  

I'm just very busy :(  Thanks for your good wishes, Sela. :)

Butterfly
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on November 14, 2005, 06:26:36 PM
Hey Butterfly:

I'm imagining you fluttering all around gracefully like a lovely little butterfly.

Reminds me of a gorgeous metallic blue butterfly that seemed to follow me around as I was gardening at my cabin one summer.  Every time I went to pull a weed or water a plant......there is was......lighting nearby.... waving it's magnificent, ...no....spectacular, shiny blue wings.  Always within a few feet of me.  I called it my "pet butterfly" and I even talked to it ( :oops:).  It was there all summer.  Then it was gone.  I've never seen one like it since.

Glad you still find the time to fly in here Butterfly.

 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Butterfly on November 15, 2005, 12:11:48 AM
You are too funny, Sela. 8)
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Brigid on November 15, 2005, 09:34:40 AM
Butterfly,
Thank you for sharing that lovely poem.  It states so beautifully how my heart feels these days and the gratitude I feel for the adversity I have overcome.

Many blessings,

Brigid
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Butterfly on November 15, 2005, 07:59:48 PM
You're welcomed, Brigid.  :)

 I'm glad to hear how you've overcome your adversity.  Isn't it such a sweet feeling to have inner victory?!

Have a good day.

Butterfly
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Brigid on November 15, 2005, 08:13:47 PM
Butterfly,

Quote
Isn't it such a sweet feeling to have inner victory?!

Yes, indeed.  :D  But more than that it is the inner peace that I feel which is sooooo sweet.  There were times in the last 2 years when I thought such a thing would never be possible.  I am now grateful for how bad it was, so I can truly appreciate how good I now feel.  Thank you again for your beautiful words.

Hugs,

Brigid
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Butterfly on November 15, 2005, 11:06:12 PM
 But more than that it is the inner peace that I feel which is sooooo sweet.  There were times in the last 2 years when I thought such a thing would never be possible.  I am now grateful for how bad it was, so I can truly appreciate how good I now feel.  Thank you again for your beautiful words.

I totally agree with you about the inner peace.  I would say that is the sweetest thing for me.  It's amazing how much we can learn about ourselves, others, and human nature in general through conflicts and negative personal experiences.  For me, it has made me a wiser person as a result.  Walking through fire really does refine gold! :)

Butterfly A.K.A. Kheng
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Moira on November 16, 2005, 04:05:05 PM
Hi all! Haven't been posting for a few weeks. Many distressing things unfolding in my life. Bear with me- I feel the need for a wee unburdening rant! I ended up leaving the new job I'd taken 3 months ago. It was supposed to be developing a new program mental health and addictions in our skid row area. This was a dream job I've waited for for many years. Unfortunately it didn't pan out for many reasons. Great nurses I was working with but a real anal and rigid supervisor- This program was a non event- not remotely up and running, total chaos, disorganized and a make work project to justify funding. I was sorely disappointed. The worst part was that I had a conflict with this supervisor. As it was still my 3 month probation period, I agreed to leave and return to my old job. The writing was on the wall with this woman anyway. 3 weeks into this job, she pulled me asie and tol dme she had serious concerns about my health. She elaborated, saying she felt I had lost a significant amount of weight in the one month since I'd been hired!! A total crock of shite!!! I had in fact gained 10 lbs. Have always been thin- no where anything near anorexic. did lose 20 lbs in april following a toxic reaction to a medication that landed me inhospital for 2 weeks on IVs. No one else who knows me has any concerns about my health. I also started hearing through the grapevine she had huge problems with the fact I have tattoos. The upshot was she called me into her office just before Halloween and told me I wasn't the right personality for this job. She told me I was the " rudest, most disrespectful and disruptive person she's ever met" !!!!! She said she oculdn't believe no one else has ever given me this feedback!!! No examples provided. She then laid out two more things that were false allegations and I easily proved them lies. The long and the short of it is that I was not happy there from day 1 and could not obviously work with this woman. I returned to my old job at a mental health team 2 weeks ago. this is also a toxic environment where I had worked 7 years and have an ongoing conflict with my supervisor here. She is new- came a year ago. I had launched 2 grievances last year to do with safety to practice violations that put myself and co workers in real danger- things she was aware of and elected to do nothing about. she is livid I've returned to my job- in fact has actually hired someone else to do it! My job is protected by union and I can now file yet another grievance. i am guaranteed my job. since my return she has attacked me multiple times a day, is documenting everything I do, picks apart my work, questions my judgement and is rude and abrasive. I'm just keeping my head down, biding my time and checking job posting daily till I can find something in a less toxic place. But I have to say the paranoia and anxiety are killing me. i'm at the point where for the past 3 mornings I'm physcially ill before I even get to work. I have great supports,. a good union rep, a great shrink etc. But I still feel like I'm losing my mind, so difficult to concentrate  and I'm gettingparanoid about my own judgement- even though I've done this work for over 20 yrs and have an excellent reputation. I have to sign off now- am on a break at work and have a call to go out on. Thanks for listening. There ismore to this and I'll post it maybe later today. Hope all of you are well and looke forward to catching up. thanks for letting me vent! Moira
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on November 16, 2005, 05:32:46 PM
Oh Dear Moira!

What an awful situation for you to be in!  I'm so sorry this is happening.

1.  Do your own documenting.  Document.  Document.  Document.  Start by printing out what you posted to us....as a summary.

2.  Anyone would feel afraid in your situation.  Try your hardest not to let the fear rule.  It's so hard but try.
     This woman is a nurse???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
      Can you contact the board that holds her licence?
      Surely this is unelthical, unprofessional behaviour that could be reported?

     Don't put your head down Moira!  Hold it up where it belongs.  You have done nothing wrong.  When she documents....you document....and be sure to let her know you are doing so.  Can you call the supervisor?  Is there any one else who is witness to her behaviour toward you?  Can you get them to document too?

     The more evidence of her behaviour you get.......the safer you will feel.  You'll have something to present when appropriate to whoever it is necessary.

3.   Intimidation is a powerful tool.  She's wielding it well.   This woman isn't God!  I have always found that although it is terrifying.......the sooner I have stood up to people who play like this.......the sooner I get them off mt case!  It's scary but they are usually cowards themselves.  That's why they use the tactics they do to intimidate others.   As soon as anyone stands up to them......they melt.  They are too cowardly to do actual battle.  They just like to scarrrrrrrrrrrrre people.  Don't give her that power Moira.   She's feeding off your reactions.  Starve her Moira!!  Look totally unaffected.  Smile.  Be sweet.  "Oh bye the way, I'm documenting this conversation."  Lot's of:  "oh really? 's" and "you can't be serious??"'s.  Do your best to show no fear!!  Laugh as much as you can and DO YOUR JOB AS YOU SEE FIT.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Moira))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

This won't last forever.  Soon your union will have you outta there.  Until then.....keep your wits about you.

After 20 years.........you know what you're doing at work.  You don't need this woman to convince you differently.    Believe in you and do your best to view this person as a tiny speck of sand.......trying to make herself out to be a giant stone.   Picture her naked........when she starts in at you.  Maybe that will help!  ( :D).  Or.......try to hear........"blah blah blah" and think:  "Air head!". 

And vent here as you need.  Good going Moira!

Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Moira on November 16, 2005, 06:46:24 PM
Hi all! Thanks Sela for your support! Good to be back here! The rest of my stuff involves one of my cats being seriously ill. He is ten yrs old and has developed some kind of major liver problem. Kept telling him not to drink! Hee hee! Have to use humour to help me deal with this. I had switched all 3 of my felines from commercial dry cat food to wet food from the vet to a raw diet. The vet had recommended this as they're all getting older andit's apparently healthier and easier on their digestion and kidneys. My oldest, Clancy, has always been a finicky eater and was most miffed he was deprived of his beloved crunchies! He has probably inretrospect being eating alot less for the past 2 months when I started this switch. i didn't notice because all 3 eat together and it's impossible to accurately monitor who eats what. He was energetic, playful and affectionate right up to a week and a half ago. Then I noticed one day he wasn't eating at all and was totally lethargic. I took him to the vet and they said he had some sort of major liver problem- lipidosis. Apparently if cats stop eating adeuqately they start digesting their fat stores and cats are one animal that can't tolerate this. Causes fat deposits to build up in their livers and they become toxic and is easily fatal. Turns out Clancy had lost almost 8 lbs which is hugely significant. He is a big cat- normally weighs 20 lbs. He's a Maine Coon- big breed. I feel so guilty I didn't notice this weight loss until it was too late. I have been giving him antibiotics and force feeding him a high protein diet with a syringe since then. It is stressfu lfor both of us but he is tolerating it well. I'm feeding him every 4-5 hours and am getting up during the night. This must be what it's like to have a baby! I almost think breast feeding would be easier but then babies don't have fangs and claws! I'm so in my head about this and so sad I may lose him. This coupled with the harassment at work has made my life unbearable the last month. I took Clancy on the wk.end for an emergency ultrasound and it didn't show any cancer or anything else really ominous. Good news. And his health prior to this has been good- no problems. He has started to eat on his own the past few days. Have been giving him tuna- his fav. He's still not eating nearly enough onhis own to recover so I'm continuing the force feeding. He's brighter, more alert, is meeting me at the door when I come home, is affectionate and last night slept with me on my bed. So I'm cautiously optimistic that he may have turned the proverbial corner! I know that loss and death are part of life and unavoidable but I feel if I lose him now it will be too hard to deal with , with all this other shit going on. I have good supports as i think I said so whatever happens i do know I'll get through it. The slimy ex N boyfriend who has been avoiding me the past 2 months at our NA meetings has returned to haunt me.He's now going to meetings I'm going to. a few weeks ago he came to pick up the last o fhis stuff at my place. I had friends there with me and we didn't speak the whole time he was there. However on his way out he said to me that he still loves me. what a crock of shite!!!! He is jealous because I've gone to some of the meetings he's been at with a good male friend of mine. In his twisted mind I'm having an affair with this man. Th ex has publicly" shared" that " someone he loves is fucking up their program, is 13 stepping and is being taken advantage of". He has also publicly called my friend " a low life, a predator and a sewer rat". Unbeleivable but so typical eh?!!! Unfortunately there is no such thing as NA police! i do know that several old timers who have been in the fellowship a long time have taken him aside and had some fireside chats about his inappropriate behaviour. He actually thinks he is coming across as the injured party, the righteous one, and that all he is doing is " trying to protect me". He's incensed that " his property" might " belong" to some other man- even though this is not the case! Thanks for listening. all you animal lovers- please say a prayer for Clancy and I'll keep you posted. thanks for being here- means alot to me! Moira
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Plucky on November 16, 2005, 09:18:39 PM
Hi Moira,
I'm praying for Clancy.   You are doing a great job and it does sound like a newborn.  BTW babies do have claws.  Their tiny little nails are soooo sharp!  But I digress.

As far as work, try to detach.  It is a short term situation.  For your jerk of a boss, she has a lot more invested.  You can leave and go elsewhere and do a great job.  She has to stay where she is and defend her turf by using lies and underhanded means.   You are in a better place, though it may not feel that way right now.

Tell yourself every day that it just doesn't matter.  It doesn't matter what she thinks.  It doesn't matter what she says.  It doesn't matter who she tells what.  Only she thinks it does, the silly prat.  Because you are so out of there.   Because lots of people can see right through her.

And the losers are the clients.   I feel sorry for them, to lose you.
Plucky



   
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on November 17, 2005, 10:02:52 AM
Hi Moira:

I'll pray for your little kitty too (well....big kitty...those Maine Coon's are gorgeous!!).

(((((((((((((((((((Moira))))))))))))))))

Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Moira on November 17, 2005, 01:06:47 PM
Thanks Plucky and Sela! Means so much to me! As I said previously, it seems Clancy has turned the corner for the better! Hope his progress continues. Last night I was actually able to go out without feeling guilty. Left a plate of tuna for him and he did eat half a can! As for work- thanks again for your support. Helps me focus on the fact that perhaps I'm not losing my mind and my confidence in my decisions. I know intellectually my behind is totally covered by my union and I'm fortunate to have a great rep. Stilll have anxiety though as her harassment definatley affects my ability to think clearly and deal effectively with my heavy workload. However I am confident that deep down I know 100% I have not made any errors in judgement. And I agree- it is my clients who are caught in the middle and she has no appreciation for the real focus of my job. As I said yesteray, she was in a good mood, actually had a sense of humour and left me alone. Maybe she got laid!- pardon my 12 yr old humour! Hee hee! I sincerely hope I find another realtively non toxic job soon. My shrink is on board too interms of supporting me completley. I doubt at this point that I'll have to go on some kind of disability but it's good to know at least I do have that option. Will keep you posted and thanks for your prayers for my feline! Hugs, Moira
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on November 20, 2005, 12:51:39 PM
Hey Moira!

You sound like you're feeling better!  I'm glad!  Thata girl!  Keep your chin up!


Totally off topic.........this one could be turned around (if a guy felt like turning it into a guy joke):


In the hospital the relatives gathered in the waiting room, where their family member lay gravely ill. Finally, the doctor came in looking tired and somber. "I'm afraid I'm the bearer of bad news," he said as he surveyed the worried faces.
"The only hope left for your loved one at this time is a brain transplant. It's an experimental procedure, very risky but it is the only hope..
Insurance will cover the procedure, but you will have to pay for the brain yourselves."
The family members sat silent as they absorbed the news. After a great length of time, someone asked, "Well, how much does a brain cost?"
The doctor quickly responded, "$5,000 for a male brain, and $200 for a female brain."
The moment turned awkward. Men in the room tried not to smile, avoiding eye contact with the women, but some actually smirked.
A man unable to control his curiosity, blurted out the question everyone wanted to ask, "Why is the male brain so much more?"
The doctor smiled at the childish innocence and explained to the entire group,

"It's just standard pricing procedure.   We have to mark down the price of the female brains, because they've actually been used."

 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Moira on November 22, 2005, 02:27:16 PM
Hi Sela! Thaks for your comments re: my feline and work sitch! I actually had a reprieve of 3 days last wk. where boss not only left me alone, but was firendly and had sense o fhumour! If I already mentioned this, forgive me! sieve brain mode! However, today I got back to work and had most snarky email from her and also a snarky conversation publicly in our a.m. mtg. where we discuss clinical concerns etc. I had a safety concern that she was directly involved in and she didn't do her job. After hearing me, she intially apologized, and then jumped right back into attacking me! At least lmy colleagues got a taste of what I'm going through! Sigh! However, I continue to anally document and forward to my union rep. funnily enough, I no longer am feeling so stressed out by her behaviour. I had a chat with the other nurse who also does my job( the one she allegedly gave my job to) and he is on board with my judgement and reply I sent to her re: snarky accusatory mssg.My birthday is tomorrow and i'm proud to announce I quit smoking 3 days ago( no temptations!!) and this will be the first birthday in a long time I'll be free of alcohol, drugs and smokes!!! As for the slimy N ex who is publicly " sharing" about me in NA mtgs- he has toned it down. I know for a fact that several oldtimers- who are also friends of mine- have had some fireside chats with him about the imappropriateness of his speaking out and it's non e of his business. So far he appears to be listening. I really don't care though at this point as it just reflects on him and has nothing to do with me. enough about me!! How goes it with you? Thanks for the joke and the laugh!!! You are a font of humour and I'm sure I'm not th eonly one here who appreciates that!!! I can never remember the punchlines- a wee stumbling point in delivery, eh?!! Take care and light and good energy to you and all! Moira
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on November 23, 2005, 01:59:19 PM
Hi Moira:

Sounds like you're taking the right steps at work and sticking with your plan.  Good for you!  Glad to hear the other nurse (guy) agrees with you.  That has to help!

I love what you said about your ex:

Quote
I really don't care though at this point as it just reflects on him and has nothing to do with me.


That's one worth repeating!!

HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY BIRTHDAY TODAY MOIRA!!!  ENJOY YOUR DAY!!!!

and BIG  Congrats about the quitting smoking!!  Wonderful news!!!  It's a tough one to kick!!  I've been over 2 years now......recovering from my addiction to cigs......

Just keep trying!!!  You'll get there!!

Oh yessssssss jokes!  I love jokes!  I remember them for awhile until new ones come along then......I remember those for a bit.  Laughing is great medicine.  I'm addicted to it!!   It's my drug!!

hahahahahaha!!!  heeeheeeheeheeheehee!!!  hohohohohohohoho!!!!  endorphins.  love 'em.

 :D Sela

Ps......really..it's just another release...laughing.  eh?

Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Moira on November 23, 2005, 03:29:28 PM
Hi Sela! Thanks again for your support- always enjoy your posting!!! And thanks for the natal day wishes! Have plans for a surprise dinner with some friends- am looking forward to it as I've been told to dress up!. Love playing the grown up girl- hee hee! Am also addicted to clothes so will have to spent hours doing yet another archeological dig in my closet for my collection of cocktail dresses etc! Likely buried somewhere in my Jurasic buying sprees!!! Hee hee! Happy to report also that my feline, Clancy, is doing amazingly well. for the past week now he's been eating adequately - being spoiled with tuna- his fav. Also he's back to his usual personality- affectionate, sleeping with me, energetic, interacting with my other 2 cat boys - incl. chasing them! Although still quite thin, he's a big cat and his chasing is kinda like a lumbering brontosaurus " lope". Hee hee! Am so relieved!!! As for the harassing boss- my 3 day hiatus appears to have come to an end- although is not too traumatic and I'm pretty much detaching myself from her shit. She accused me publicly of violating a policy that involved a doctor- who had requested and then approved my decision. Informed her she might want to curb her accusations until she had all the facts and did it not occur to her I would- obviously- have o.k'ed this with the doc.. document, document!! I'm certain my union rep is getting a wee bit tired with our " going steady"!! Today she made some odd comment after the morning meeting about" I never noticed you drink alot of coffee". Hmm! My mind immediately goes to some sort of thought on her part that I'm too tired to do my job!! Have an evaluation coming up soon!!! Will have union rep for sure attend. Slimy ex N appears to have disappeared- for now- back into the proverbial woodwork! Apparently at some NA mtg. I wasn't at- my girlfriend told me he was " sharing" about an upcoming date with some woman in the program!!! As if I- or anyone else for that matter!!!- gives a shit!!! All I can say,is RUN- to that poor unsuspecting prey- however that's just a fleeting thought on my part- not obsessing- as it has nothing to do with me! Am off to continue inhaling caffeine- hee hee!!! Can only help keep my mind razor sharp and my body poised for ? fight rather than flight!!! Hee hee! Take care and hope allis going swimmingly for you! Love, Moira
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on November 24, 2005, 06:34:33 PM
Hi Moira:

Your boss reminds me of one of those people who opens their mouth.......first
.........and then......maybe........later.........they 1/2 think about what they said.
 :D :D :D :D

She notices you drink a lot of coffee?  Makes me want to ask her:

"Have you nothing better to do than that?  Poor you."

But ofcourse.......I usually just think stuff like that.  I'm learning though....I like the idea of.......

bored, non-reaction.

.........looking at paper in hand and saying:  "Hmmmmmm?  Uh huh", with barely a nod in her direction.

Wonder if that would shut her up?????

Glad to hear your big kitty is better.   :D :D  He sounds like a wonderful guy!

Best of luck on your evaluation!  Glad your rep will be present.   Get specifics of any criticisms.

 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on December 08, 2005, 07:32:19 PM
"All we are saying is give peace a chance"

John Lennon



25 years ago today he was shot and killed.



I like the idea of "Bagism" and "Bed ins".   :D

Brings back memories of teenhood and my favorite line, back then:

"I'm going to run away and join the peace movement".  :shock:

His messed up childhood/adolescence......seeing his father walk out on his mother, when John was just 5 years old and not long after, his mother deciding she was not able to look after him  ... "gave" him to her sister, his  "Aunt Mimi (and Uncle George)....probably was very painful.  His mom visited and kept in contact with him until she was killed in by a drunk driver when he was only 17.  He had to identify her body at the morgue.   Horrible, for a kid his age.

I wonder if and what kind of stuff he would have posted on a site like this? 

 Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: wally on December 08, 2005, 11:15:50 PM
got almost all of the christmas shopping done.......i hate holidays, and birthdays, and people that cut you off when your trying to merge onto a freeway.  Other than that can't wait for the first snow-----yipee

Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on December 09, 2005, 09:40:49 AM
Hi Wally and Welcome:

Well now!!  That's what might be called........getting 'er done!!! :P

Not me.  I've been putting that whole shopping thing off.  I just am not into it this year.  I've got a few gifts but lot's more to find.  I just need to get into hunt mode......and I better hurry up!!

Yesterday evening, I did some decorating and that helped a little.

And the snow!!!  (First snow of the year??  hahahahahahaha!!  Not here!  My daughter and sister in law already built one 8 foot snow man and I've got a feeling it won't be the last.  Everything is white here this morning...including the air!!)  But the snow does help make it feel more like Christmas (to me).

 
Quote
hate holidays, and birthdays, and people that cut you off when your trying to merge onto a freeway. 


I don't like the crowds, or really....crowded places...so that's why the procrastination about shopping (which doesn't make any sense because the longer I wait.....the bigger the crowds will get).  I think I might drive east of here, to a few of the small towns, and do my gift hunting there.  I'm sure the crowds will be smaller there.

Hmmmm.......birthdays and holidays eh?  What don't you like about them?

No need to ask that question about the cutter offers.  :x

I saw a cool show on TV once, where they were describing this prototype idea on how to decrease highway congestion and accident statistics.....

They talked of how these roads could be built.....with sort of magnets built into them (I think??) and each car would have a computer gadget that one programs their destination into.  The person drives the car to the beginning of the on ramp/entrance of the highway and then......get this......the computer takes over, the magnets switch on and the car drives itself....onto the highway and all along, until it gets to the off-ramp/exit destination the person programmed in.  There would be no congestion or accidents because speed, distance etc is all maintained at rates determined by the computer.  No congestion.  No accidents.

Just think......people could read, write poetry, nap.......hahahahahaha :mrgreen:...maybe knit a scarf.........whatever........instead of fighting traffic or merging with anything.  The computer controls the whole process...no speeding...no cutting off.....nothing!!

Then, once the vehicle reaches the destination off ramp, alarms and buzzers go off, vibrating seat, fans come on full blast, whatnot.....the driver is alerted....the car goes down the exit, the magnets turn off, the computer turns off and the driver takes over control of the machine again.  Doesn't do much for city traffic but it sounds like a cool idea for the highway..to me (plus it leaves police forces available to monitor city drivers more closely, which would also hopefully effect speeders etc).

Only problem.......same old problem.......always the problemo......

Moola.  It would cost zillions to fix all the highways up with these magnets or whatever they are.
Haven't heard a word about it since that show.  I thought it was really cool. 8)

I love people with such amazingly creative minds/imaginations.....who spend their time and energy trying to think up ways to improve things......like Benjamin Franklin.  That guy.....thinked up all kinds of cool stuff!

 :D :D  Sela

 
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: wally on December 09, 2005, 10:18:16 AM
Your funny Sela (in a fun sense),

Magnets huh? Wouldn't it be easier just to do the Star Trek transporter thing? just think............no cars, no traffic.  Sorry just being a dork.

Birthdays (actually just my own) are a non-event, and I mean non.  I just have never celebrated, perhaps because it never really mattered, I am sure it must have been from a few bad experiences with the ole growin up years.  I hate to blame someone else for my deficiencies, so I wont, but I do enjoy, and help to celebrate my children's, and wifes birthdays with fervor.  I guess I just want them to have what I didn't, but don't want sympathy for my weirdness.  I am not trying to fix this one because the other 364 days seem to evershadow the one and people forget just as quick so I'm content with it.

You lucky dog, I want snow!!!!! Oregon is mild climate, so we get only about 2-3 days a year if we are lucky.  We have the wet cold thing going just fine, but no snow.

I was a little extreme saying I don't like holidays, I do love things about the holidays, just not as much as some.

Gotta go wake of the youngins for school.


Thanks for your fun post Sela!
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela as guest on December 12, 2005, 08:58:49 PM
Hiya Wally:

Quote
Your funny Sela (in a fun sense),

Thanks.  "It's fun to be funny" (said The cat in the hat)

I'd rather laugh than cry, that's the way it is for me.  I do both but I like laughing a whole lot more.

Yes......maybe the magnets sound like a bit much and transporters are the way to go.  Anything that would relieve traffic and decrease or better yet, eliminate vehicle accidents would be lovely, wouldn't it?
Who knows?  Maybe some day. 8)

Quote
Birthdays (actually just my own) are a non-event, and I mean non.  I just have never celebrated, perhaps because it never really mattered, I am sure it must have been from a few bad experiences with the ole growin up years.


I'm sorry that your birthdays were not celebrated as you grew up.  That is sad.  I'm sorry for that hurt.  That would give you a kind of........

.........I'm not valuable

feeling eh? 

Your birthday should be a day of celebrating you.  Parents are supposed to be happy on those days because they are supposed to remember and celebrate the joy they felt/still feel.......by being blessed with a son.

Quote
I hate to blame someone else for my deficiencies, so I wont

I don't think you're blaming anyone for anything.  But it's clear to me that it would cause pain.....leave a lasting hurt......if I didn't celebrate my children's birthdays with glee.......and it seems you're doing that too....which is wonderful (celebrating your children's birthdays big time!!).  Good for you Wally!  Your kids will probably grow up feeling valuable and appreciated and like they've brought joy to your life.....because you're happy on their birthday and you celebrate.  They'll remember that, I bet.

I bet your wife feels loved and valued too because you celebrate her birthday too.  That's great stuff!!

What if.......the next time your birthday rolls around.........you value yourself (and say......poopoo to the wind of those who don't!!! :P).  You can celebrate being alive and being blessed with children and a beautiful wife!!!  Forget all those birthdays that weren't celebrated and start anew?  Decide what you'd like to do, or not do, and annouce:

"This is what I'd like to do/or not do on my birthday".

(hopefully......it will be something within reason.......like:  go bowling or to a movie or out for dinner...and a cake......rather than say.......fly to the alps or ride an elephant.....??)

Why not?  It's your day .....your's to enjoy.  You are a valuable person, Wally, and I bet your wife and kids would agree with me.  And your birthday does matter.

Ok...enough nagging.

You want some of our snow?  It's already freezing into huge lumps of ice, which it will snow on top of, in the next couple of days and be treacherous to walk/drive/crawl on.  Wish I could send you some really fluffy stuff (I'd gladly share!!).  I'm glad you get a little anyway.  As much as I'd hate to admit it........I'd miss it....if it didn't snow.  I do like how it sparkles and the way it sticks to my dog's noses.  Don't like driving in it much though. :shock:

Holidays are ok as long as they don't get us too stressed out eh?  Then, I think they aren't much of a holiday at all.  I hope your turn out good.

Thanks for posting Wally.  I'm glad you're here.

 :D Sela

Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Hopalong on December 12, 2005, 09:50:34 PM
I like birthdays because they feel so personal. Just for my daughter and mother...well NMom considers EVERY day her birthday...but what I like is a chance to focus on one person, even myself, and think about the fact that they were born. It's like a chance to marvel...

Whereas for me, Christmas has just about been snuffed out. All I want is one candle lit, sacred music, and peace on earth. Nuff said. It's not so much Bah Humbug as it is ... STOP everybody. If this heralds love, then what's with the stress, which is anti-love? By the time anybody opens a present, someone is so exhuasted that they're numb. I do love seeing kids' thrill at it...but only the first few innocent times. Soon after, they're so often just numb little materialists obsessed with the arrival of STUFF. Not magic or holiness, or peace (or a prince thereof) but stuff. The music is sublime though. Handel's the man!

I've caved. I just don't shop. I buy amazon.com gift certificates and email them to Nbro's family, do get a few things for Mom (but also online)...and small things for my D's stocking. That's it, there's nobody else.

What a grinch am I,
Hopalong
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: wally on December 14, 2005, 10:53:39 AM
Sela, there you go being fun again.  When we get our two days of snow I pack up the 5 kids and we go find an open field, or usually parking lot.  My truck is fun in the snow and the kids scream with laughter, my wife just grips the door handle and tries to maintain.

Being kick off the computer by my oldest (homework).  There is a pain with my birthday that I am not confronting yet.  You have sparked my interest into trying to remember what happened way back when.  It just seems like when I even try to go there in my mind I hurt inside really bad, but I don't know why.  So I know at least the motivation to want to not celebrate, but I don't wreck it if the kids want to do something, and they always do.

hopalong I know where your going with the gift thing as far as going past the meaning.  My wife came from normal parents compared to me (lol), but they are truly wonderful.  They have a tradition of serving their children with charitable thoughts, and they are truly compassionate.  Our oldest (13) knows the deal (Santa) now of course, but she keeps the faith with instilling in the other children the magic.  To really think that Santa Claus really comes to your house and gifts appear in the morning where they were not the night before must be so thrilling and magical to a young innocent mind.  Our two oldest love to watch the three little ones experience this, and soon it will fade only to be recreated by them in their own families.

Heck, when it does fade I will go fishing in Alaska with my wife, and we can experience the thrill of landing a 40lb salmon.  Only time itself will tell our family when the right time to let loose, we will know.  But even now my wifes parents ask her what she wants from 2000 miles away.  They call her and the children with joyful tears of missing them.  I long for a family that will do that, and hopefully, thanks to the wonderful lady who married me we can become part of that charitable tradition that they make look so natural, and enticing.  They are such simple people that I now that is is true love.

We are dreaming of a white Christmas, haven't had one in the 8 years Ive been in the pacific Northwest.

Thanks Sela, and Hopalong

Wally
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on December 14, 2005, 11:40:58 AM
I'm very sad right now.  My cousin has passed away.....very suddenly.   We were close for many years.

Trying to pack for the long drive in bad weather to her funeral.

All prayers needed for our safe trip there and back, please.

Sorry to all who have posted to me lately and that I won't be replying.  I know you will understand.

Death sucks....but I believe there is another life after this.

For that I am so grateful.  Still, for now, the grief is hard.

 :( Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: wally on December 14, 2005, 12:12:39 PM
God bless Sela,

Remember, the sun is always shining above the dark and dreary clouds that can form in our lives, it always breaks and when the time is right the sun will warm us again.  You are hopeful in your grief, and I am sorry for your loss Sela.

Wally
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Moira on December 14, 2005, 03:54:12 PM
Sela- I'm so sorry about your cousin. You are in my prayers and I'll put in a protective charm with the snow goddess for your safety. i'm off this weekend to the Queen Charlotte islands here in B.C.- an absolutely stunning, magical and incredibly spiritual place. I'm planting some trees in a special place outside an abandoned Haida village only accessible by boat( am sailing over)- a ceremony I do as a celebration for people I've lost and I am planting one tree for several friends' losses and I will include your cousin among them. I also do a candle ceremony over winter solstice for the dead and again I will light one for your cousin. you are in my thoughts and prayers. Love Moira
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Hopalong on December 14, 2005, 09:48:12 PM
Sela,
I'm so sorry.
Be safe in your travels and kind to yourself in your grieving.

thoughts with you,
Hopalong
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Healing&Hopeful on December 15, 2005, 11:27:57 AM
((((((((((Sela))))))))))

Huge hugs sweetheart.  I'm so sorry to hear about your cousin.  You are in my thoughts and I wish you a safe journey.

Take care

H&H xx
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Brigid on December 15, 2005, 02:46:45 PM
Sela,
I'm so sorry for your loss.  I wish you safe travels and an angel on your shoulder.

Hugs,

Brigid
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Moira on December 15, 2005, 04:28:33 PM
Hi all- don't mean to hijack this thread but have to vent a bit. Hope no one minds too much. I think I may explode!!! I think I may have elaborated here about ongoing shite at work with my N boss who is a nasty bully. I took a new job with a developing project four months ago only to discover this job wasn't really my cup of tea- and neither was the supervisor attached who didn't like the fact I have tattoos and a mental illness( I think I mentioned somewhere that my first interaction with this woman involved her cornering me for a " concerned chat" about my weight- thought I was anorexic- am naturally and have always been thin and she'd never laid eyes on my before!). Being in a union, my old job here was held for the three month probationary period. As I was obviously less than happy there- and the writing was clearly on the wall with that supervisor- I came back into this toxic environment. Much to my N boss' horror and dismay- not to mention, my own! She was livid that I was back and hauled me into her office within the first hour i was back in the building. She was immediately up my ass about all manner of gripes and grilled me on what my health was going to be like this winter( my sick time has always been an issue with her) and started to yell at me for allegedly leaving my former case load in disarray!!1 When I left her underling in charge sat down with me and went over my case load and everything was gonen over with a fine tooth comb and laid to rest. I walked out of her office and told her i wouldn't speak to her again about any of this without my union rep present. she continued to harass and bully me publicly and privately on a daily basis for the last month and a half. I have documented everything and forwarded to my rep. She is freaking out because she gave my job to a collegue and i threw a huge fly into the ointment by returning to my job. She had no right to hire anyone into my job until the probationalry period was over. Now she's scrambling to find some dirt on me and to make it stick so she can get rid of me- or at least prove I'm not competent at my job- in order to keep her golden haired yes boy in my job.I've been waiting for her to make her big move and sure enough, last Friday she did. She way laid me the end of the day and told me she had to meet with me and human resources next week to " discuss serious performance concerns". Right!!!! I've been with this organization 15 years, 7 of them with this particular team and have never had anything other than excellent job evaluations and relations with collegues and my clients.( This N boss is new- only been here a year). This woman has berated me, accused me of lying, screwing up etc daily and is in my face and behind my back daily. I feel like I'm losing my mind. She knows i have a major mental illness- ironically I'm a nurse working in community mental health- and she uses this to basically torture me. I applied for another job out of this organization last week and she found out about it from one of the secretaries who did a covering letter for me- she got ratted out by someone else in this snake pit. sick office politics! Now, all of a sudden without ever once hinting she's had any concerns at  all about me, she allegedly has such serious concerns she needs to involve human resources etc. Strangely I have no anxiety about the outcome of this meeting as I know i've done nothing to merit any punishment or repurcussions but I'm incensed that I'm being bullied and accused of lying etc. interestingly, I've caught her in several lies and have them documented and easily proved . She has no conscience at all. And she is really enjoying bullying me and hoping I'll snap. Human resources is going to back her up because they supported her decision to essentially give my job away to someone they had no right to- so they have major egg of their faces too. Plus, I've taken them on in the past and successfully filed several grievances against them for other bullshit they've tried to pull. so, I'm not exactly a popular person in their eyes. This boss has told me to my face that she doesn't think I have any business working as a nurse in mental health as i myself am bipolar!!!!! Unbelievable and a wee bit ironic don't you think?! I just found out today that this bullshit evlauation meeting is now postponed till ? Jan. 19th as my rep is away and I'm off on holiday Dec 22-Jan11th. I'm hoping I will at the very least have a job interview lined up in hospital when I come back to work as I then don't have to participate in any evlauation as I'll be leaving the community. I can then take my personnel file with me. I'm also planning on giving an inservice before I exit on bullying in the workplace and how to do a proper evaluation and review suing a union for my collegues' benefits. I am launching a harassment grievance against this boss this afternoon as well. Sorry- just had to vent. Thanks for listening. amazing how all this shit takes me right back to feeling like I'm being tortured by my N mother all over again. Moira
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Plucky on December 15, 2005, 04:51:47 PM
Whew Moira,
I'm glad you could vent.  I know you are going through a lot of stress and residual pain from your mother, but what pops out at me is your ability to take constructive action to defend yourself and get out of there.   I bet you would not have done so well in the past.   I bet it is just that much worse because of your mother.  But now it is just one of those awful life experiences that you wil get through and get past.   It will tire you but not destroy you.  Congratulations.
Plucky
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: wally on December 16, 2005, 01:12:40 PM
Damn Moira, you got a battle brewin,

There is not a consistent thread to hi jack on this board Ref. "Subject re: Anything", I know you know that I was just being a dork.  ummmmmmmmmmm...........are you sure you like the union life?  Sounds like you might be investigating a less toxic atmosphere, there are so many avenues in your field.  And as for Bi-polar being a reason not to work there, uh, yea, okay.........then if a doctor gets cancer they should change fields huh?  Perhaps your boss reminds you of your mother because she is your mother.  Fight back but, know that in union situations its all about the hats.  Unless your trying to make history, it may be more beneficial to your own sanity to make a lateral move, maybe not, maybe the fight is what is keeping you there.  I myself am not a tattoo person, but I am also not vegetarian, but if that what floats others boats well then run with it.  Some peoples only life is other peoples, pretty sure that your boss has a secure enough future that she/he can make your life a living hell and get away with it with enough alabis.  Again, the N world. 
     If your gonna take on the fight well then you need to make some friends with hats.  Use the union to the hilt, as this is what they are for.  Know that their living hell is that they cannot control you, even if you sit down with them everyday to show that your stuff is straight this will bug the crap out of them even more to know that your functioning okay within their hell.  If you win the fight, well then it will be well worth the effort, I hope that you understand that your gonna take some scratches and bites, but stay on you feet and keep dancing and later you can brag about the battle scars.

Wally
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Moira on December 16, 2005, 07:08:33 PM
Hi all! Thanks Wally and Plucky for the support! Am feeling pretty good at the heart of things regarding all this shite. interesting developmetn today. All I can say is that H.R. and management are idiots who have no clue how a union works or what they've just done for me actually! The supervisor of the project I went to for three months who wasn't happy i was"out" about having a mental illness- don't get me wrong! i don't have this on a T shirt or anything. I'm honest about it and did speak about it with some of the nurses i worked with who were all cool with it- the supervisor wasn't though)- just " coincidentally"  e mailed my probationary evaluation. Needless to say, it was horrific and according to her, I violated every ethical and professional standard of nursing! The fun bits for me is that her allegations are all bullshit and easily proved as such. In fact, I now have in my possession, written support refuting everything she's alleged from five of the six women I worked with. The allegations came from one woman who didn't like me who then went to the supervisor- who was also less than my number 1 fan! It is crystal clear that her feedback is entirely personal and has nothing whatsoever to do with me professionally! I still can't believe this woman actually put this on paper not knowing that she in effect is helping me and shooting her self and her higher ups in the foot!!!! As for me skedaddling outta here- you betcha- I'm gone! Writing on the walll is pretty clear and i don't wear glasses for nothing! Time for me to skate off to quieter pastures where i can do my job, make my clients my focus and not bullshit toxic politics! I derive little satisfaction these days from my taking management on and being a staff poster girl for mental illness sitting on the other side of the proverbial desk! I have every intention of minding my p's and q's, being non reactionary in a  Zen like manner! , keeping my dignity and my reputation intact. I have worked in mental health in the community for 20 years and have always had an excellent impecable professional reputation. Sure, lots of people out there may not care for me personally but they can't fault my work or that I am a fearless advocate for my clients. I am sick and tired to being bullied and discriminated against and am not fond of being bent over the proverbial desk- with no lube!!!!! Hee hee!!! couldn't resist a wee bit of irreverence!! I know in my heart of hearts that there is a lesson for me here- there is a reason why the job I left for didn't work out and why I ended up back here. I also know with confidence that I will move on soon and into a place where i will be respected and can once again resume my practice with my focus on serving my clients- not spending all day with my head up my ass documenting and strategising how to protect myself from bullshit! And yeah, the last two supervisors ARE my N mother!!!! Exactly the same treatment and abuse! Get back in that grave, mom!!! AAARRRGGGGHHH!!!!!!! Thanks for the suppoprt again and I hope everyone has a great weekend. I'm off to the Queen Charlotte Islands- live in B.C. Canada. The Charlottes area a mystical, magical incredibly beautiful and spiritual place- many abandoned Haida villages. Breathtaking scenery and wildlife. Am getting on a sailboat in 2 hours and taking off. Will definately come back with recharged batteries! It's a full moon tonight and it's crisp and clear and cold- a beautiful night to be out on the ocean enjoying God's creations! Sending light to all, Moira
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on December 21, 2005, 10:51:24 AM
Hi everyone:

Thankyou all so much for your kind thoughts and words to me and for all of the positive pictures you painted......which reminded me to think of.

Wally....such a great and good picture.....of the sun coming out through the clouds.  And true too, thankyou.
Hoppy....for your warm thoughts and H&H, likewise and big hug and good wishes.  I picture you both like good friends...neighbours....at my door, right away...to help.  Thankyou, you did.
Brigid.....what a lovely idea you gave me to think about....an angel on my shoulder.  Thanks for that and for more hugs.
And Moira......oh I am imagining a special tree in that magical place you spoke of......and what my cousin would say to know you included her in your thoughts when planting it.  She would probably laugh and tell you not to break your back shovelling!  But she would also appreciate your generous gift, as I do.  Thankyou Moira.

Our trip was very good going up....clear roads and we made very good time.  Once there, it began to storm..and I mean storm!!  We went first to the funeral home and when we came out to leave....the snow was up above the door bottoms of my vehicle.  About a foot, at least.....had fallen in 4 hours!!  We had to drive about 45 miles from there to where we were staying......and the roads were treacherous!!!  I was quite terrified (and I'm not usually like that...but this was really wicked!!).  I'm so thankful my husband drove.  It was so scary.....just to ride (mostly because I know what's on the other side of those low guard rails, on those bends, in the highway.....and lot's of times......it's a few hundred feet down, nothing but rocks and rivers.  There is very little chance, if any, of survival if you miss a curve and go through the guard rail!  But my husband kept 'er on the road like a pro!!  And him never having driven up north like that before!!).

There we soooooo many people at the wake and funeral.  In such weather!!  There would have been more, I bet, had it been clear, safe driving.  My cousin was very well loved and had so many friends!  She will be dearly missed.  I will really miss her.

Coming home was ok until about 1/2 way.  Then, we ran into snow squalls and a very greasy part of the road, where a big accident had taken place.  Then later, behind the snow plow....we had a hard time every time we passed an open area (no trees or rocks)......where the wind took hold of all the snow he was plowing and sent it swirling and blinding us....no fun.

But we made it home safe...it took 7 hours, which really isn't bad at all.  I'm so tired though, and really not ready to do Christmas.  Thankyou all so much for your good thoughts and wishes and all your very positive energy.  It's so nice to come back and read what you've all written.  I feel your support and caring.  Thankyou all!

Moira:  Please don't ever worry about highjacking this thread.  It's impossible to do that.  You can write about anything here.

I'm very impressed with the way you are handling the situation at work.  I will keep you in my prayers....that a wonderful job, where people will appreciate your skills and dedication....will come along for you, and that in the mean time, those you work with...will get off your back.

((((((((all)))))))

 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Healing&Hopeful on December 21, 2005, 11:20:32 AM
Hi Sela

Glad to hear your home safe and sound.  Your journey sounds quite frightening, but glad to hear your husband drove.  And glad to hear that the funeral was good and lots of your cousins friends and family managed to make it.

Take care

H&H xx
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Moira on December 21, 2005, 12:10:36 PM
Sela! Good you're back safe and sound. Thanks for your support and prayers! Just wanted to say Merry Christmas- if you celebrate it. Today is my last day of work till January 11th and I'm soooo relieved!!!!Also today is winter solstice- I don't do the happy birthday baby jesus thing( oops! Damn irreverence again! Hee hee!)- and being Wiccan- this is a very special day for me. Ah...light! It's a beautiful thing! I mentioned that for solstice part of my ritual includes one for the dead and I will include your cousing in it. Thinking of you and yours and sending healing and peace- Moira.
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on December 23, 2005, 04:15:27 PM
Thanks Moira!!

Yes....I celebrate Christmas!

Hope you enjoy the holidays.....especially your time off!!

All the best in 2006!

 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Plucky on December 24, 2005, 12:44:38 AM
Hi Sela,
glad you're back!  Sounds like you cousin had a brilliant sendoff.
Hope you can still enjoy the hols.
Plucky
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on January 03, 2006, 04:26:50 PM
Hey thanks H&H and Plucky.  Yep.  Bound on enjoying life after the passing of my cousin.

Sometimes life seems like one big elevator ride.  Up and down and stop and go and on and off.
Speaking of which:



 Things To Do In An Elevator (some of these may be dangerous so use discretion eh):

1) When there's only one other person in the elvator, tap them
on the shoulder and then pretend it wasn't you.

2) Push the buttons and pretend they give you a shock. Smile,
and go back for more.

3) Ask if you can push the button for other people, but push the
wrong ones.

4) Call the Psychic Hotline from your cell phone and ask if they
know what floor your on.

5) Hold the doors open and say your waiting for a friend. After
a while, let the doors close, and say, "Hi Greg. How's your day
been?"

6) Drop a pen and wait until someone goes to pick it up, then
scream, "That's mine!"

7) Bring a camera and take pictures of everyone in the elevator.

8) Move your desk into the elevator and whenever anyone gets on,
ask if they have an apointment.

9) Lay down the twister mat and ask people if they would like to
play.

10) Leave a box in the corner, and when someone gets on, ask
them if they can hear ticking.

11) Pretend you are a flight attendant and review emergency
procedures and exits with the passengers.

12) Ask, "Did you feel that?"

13) Stand really close to someone, sniffing them occasionally.

14) When the doors close, announce to the others, "It's okay,
don't panic, they open again!"

15) Swat at flies that don't exist.

16) Tell people that you can see their aura.

17) Call out, "Group Hug!"and then enforce it.

18) Grimace painfully while smacking your forehead and
muttering, "Shut up, all of you, just shut up!"

19) Crack open your briefcase or purse, and while peering
inside, ask, "Got enough air in there?"

20) Stand silently and motionless in the corner, facing the
wall, without getting off.

21) Stare at another passenger for a while, then announce in
horror, "Your one of THEM!" and back away slowly.

22) Wear a puppet on your hand and use it to talk to the other
passengers.

23) Listen to the elevator walls with your stethoscope.

24) Make explosion noises when anyone presses a button.

25) Stare, grinning at another passenger for a while, then
announce, "I have new socks on".

26) Draw a little square on the floor with chalk and announce to
the other passnegers, "This is MY personal space!"

 
 :D :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on January 11, 2006, 03:10:30 PM
Been reading and found these:

"LOS ANGELES TIMES, October 8:

People of northwestern Montana have been advised to be on the lookout for drunken bears. Black bears and grizzlies have been congregating along the tracks of the Burlington Northern railroad tracks, where a train carrying hundreds of tons of corn derailed some time ago. The corn has fermented, and the aroma is attracting the bears. "The bears are actually intoxicated up there," said wildlife biologist Loren Hicks. And a grizzly with a hangover can be cross as a bear."


Hahahahaha!!  As ifffffffffff grizzlies aren't already cross enough!!!

"Sthecuse me?  Hath yew stheen my fren aroun here?  Heeths a grithzzly withtha kine ovva lisssp?  It'ths not  usthual ....it'ths justh he'ths been sthucking back furrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrmenthed corrrrrrrrrrn and now he'ths slooooooped!!"

 :D :D


A Hunting we shall go

A man buys a brand new Grand Cherokee for $30,000+, and has $400.00+ in monthly payments. He's pretty proud of this rig and gets ahold of his friend to do some male bonding with the new ride. They go duck hunting and of course all the lakes are frozen. These two Atomic Brains go to the lake with their guns, the dog, the beer and of course the new vehicle.

They drive out onto the ice. Now, they want to make some kind of a natural landing area to attract ducks - something the decoys will float on.

Remember it's all ice, and in order to make a hole large enough to interest a flock of ducks - a hole big enough to entice ducks to land, they needed to use a little more than an ice hole drill...

Sooo, out of the back of the brand-new Jeep Grand Cherokee comes a stick of dynamite with a short 40-second fuse. Now to their credit, these two rocket scientists DID take into consideration that if they placed the stick of dynamite on the ice at a location far from where they (and the new Grand Cherokee) would be waiting and ran back quickly, they would risk slipping on the ice as they ran from the imminent explosion and could possibly go up in smoke with the resulting blast. After a little deliberation, they come up with lighting and THROWING the dynamite, which is what they end up doing.

Remember a couple of paragraphs back when I mentioned the vehicle, the beer, the guns AND THE DOG???? Yes, the dog. The driver's pet Black Lab (used for retrieving - especially things thrown by the owner). You guessed it, the dog takes off at a high rate of doggy speed on the ice, reaching the stick of dynamite with the burning 40-second fuse about the time it hits the ice - all to the woe of the two idiots which are now yelling, stomping, waving arms and wondering what the hell to do now...

The dog is happy and now heads back toward the "hunters" with the stick of dynamite securely clamped in his jaws. I think we all can picture the ever-increasing concern on the part of the two less than brilliant dudes, as the loyal Labrador Retriever approaches. The bozos are REALLY waving their arms - roaring even louder and generally feeling kinda panicked... Now finally one of the guys decides to think - something that neither had done before this moment, grabs a shotgun and shoots the dog. This sounds better than it really is, because the shotgun was loaded with #8 duck shot and hardly effective enough to stop a big Black Lab. The dog DID stop for a moment, slightly confused, but then continued on. Another shot, and this time the dog - still standing, became REALLY confused & of course scared...

Thinking that these two Nobel Prize Winners have gone TOTALLY INSANE, the pooch takes off to find cover with a now extremely short fuse still burning on the stick of dynamite. The cover the dogs finds? Underneath the brand new Grand Cherokee worth 30-some thousand dollars the $400.00+ monthly payment vehicle that is sitting nearby on the lake ice.

BOOM! Dog dies, vehicle sinks to bottom of lake, and these two "Co-Leaders of the Academy of Dummies" are left standing there with this "I can't EVEN believe this happened to me" look on their faces. Later, the owner of the vehicle calls his insurance company and is promptly informed that sinking a vehicle in a lake by illegal use of explosives is NOT covered on his policy...He had yet to make his first car payment.

(Which only goes to show that the full potential of fermented corn could yet be harnassed, someday, and most honkin' truck ownin' hunters should read the fine print on their insurance policies before all excursions involving explosives, dogs, ducks and beers).

 :lol:

Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on January 13, 2006, 02:46:35 PM
Thank You!

To those of you who laughed at me, thank you.
Without you I wouldn't have cried.

To those of you who just couldn't love me, thank you.
Without you I wouldn't have known real love.

To those of you who hurt my feelings, thank you.
Without you I wouldn't have felt them.

To those of you who left me lonely, thank you.
Without you I wouldn't have discovered myself.

But it is to those of you who thought I couldn't do it;
It is you I thank the most,
Because without you I wouldn't have tried.
 
Author Unknown
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on January 13, 2006, 03:08:37 PM
Fishy Story


A man was stopped by a game warden recently.  He was carring two buckets of fish, while leaving a lake well known for good fishing. The game warden asked the man, "Do you have a license to catch those fish?"

The man replied to the game warden, "No, sir. These are my pet fish."

"Pet fish?!" the warden replied.

"Yes, sir. Every day I take these fish down to the lake and let them swim around for a while. Then I whistle and they jump back into their buckets, and I take 'em home."

"That's a bunch of hooey! Fish don't do that!"

The man looked at the game warden for a moment, and then said, "Here, I'll show you. It really works."

"O.K. I've GOT to see this!" the game warden replied.

The man walked to the lake, poured the fish into the water, and then stood and waited. After several minutes, the game warden turned to the man and said, "Well?"

"Well, what?" the man asked.

"When are you going to call them back?" the game warden prompted.

"Call who back?" the man asked.

"The FISH."

"What fish?" the man asked.
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Hopalong on January 13, 2006, 08:26:16 PM
All right now, Miss Sela.

We're gonna have to sic PETA on you if you keep slaughtering puppy dogs and little fishies!

 :lol:

Hops
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on January 20, 2006, 05:22:09 PM
Ok......this one's not related to doggies or fishes much at all.

It's an early birthday gift from my friend (Thanks so much!).



Once again, The Washington Post has published the winning submissions to its
yearly contest, in which readers are asked to supply alternate meanings for
common words.

The winners are:

1. Coffee (n.), the person upon whom one coughs.



2. Flabbergasted (adj.), appalled over how much weight you have gained.



3. Abdicate (v.), to give up all hope of ever having a flat stomach.



4. Esplanade (v.), to attempt an explanation while drunk.



5. Willy-nilly (adj.), impotent.



6. Negligent (adj.), describes a condition in which you absent-mindedly
answer the door in your nightgown.



7. Lymph (v.), to walk with a lisp.



8. Gargoyle (n.), olive-flavored mouthwash.



9. Flatulence (n.) emergency vehicle that picks you up after you are run
over by a steamroller.



10. Balderdash (n.), a rapidly receding hairline.



11. Testicle (n.), a humorous question on an exam.



12. Rectitude (n.), the formal, dignified bearing adopted by proctologists.



13. Pokemon (n), a Rastafarian proctologist.



14. Oyster (n.), a person who sprinkles his conversation with Yiddishisms.



15. Frisbeetarianism (n.), (back by popular demand): The belief that, when
you die, your Soul flies up onto the roof and gets stuck there.



16. Circumvent (n.), an opening in the front of boxer shorts worn by Jewish
men.



 The Washington Post's Style Invitational also asked readers to take any
word from the dictionary, alter it by adding, subtracting, or changing one
letter, and supply a new definition.



Here are this year's winners:



1. Bozone (n.): The substance surrounding stupid people that



stops bright ideas from penetrating. The bozone layer, unfortunately,



shows little sign of breaking down in the near future.



2. Foreploy (v): Any misrepresentation about yourself for the purpose of
getting laid.



3. Cashtration (n.): The act of buying a house, which renders the subject
financially impotent for an indefinite period.



4. Giraffiti (n): Vandalism spray-painted very, very high.



5. Sarchasm (n): The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person
who doesn't get it.



6. Inoculatte (v): To take coffee intravenously when you are running late.



7. Hipatitis (n): Terminal coolness.



8. Osteopornosis (n): A degenerate disease. (This one got extra credit.)



9. Karmageddon (n): It's like, when everybody is sending off all these
really bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and  it's like,
a serious bummer.



10. Decafalon (n.): The grueling event of getting through the day consuming
only things that are good for you.



11. Glibido (v): All talk and no action.



12. Dopeler effect (n): The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when
they come at you rapidly.



13. Arachnoleptic fit (n.): The frantic dance performed just after you've
accidentally walked through a spider web.



14. Beelzebug (n.): Satan in the form of a mosquito that gets into your
bedroom at three in the morning and cannot be cast out.



15. Caterpallor (n.): The color you turn after finding half a grub in the
fruit you're eating.



 and the pick of the literature:



16. Ignoranus (n): A person who's both stupid and an asshole.



 :lol: :lol:Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on January 26, 2006, 10:16:16 AM
For Plucky:

"Hope is a very unruly emotion".
                     Gloria Steinem

((((((hug))))

Sela

PS:  No reply required.  Just didn't want to distract/put your thread off topic/heck I'm trying to avoid some weird toxic thingy so I posted here....where anything goes....anything. :D
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: mum on January 26, 2006, 10:26:48 AM
Thanks Sela for the biggest early morning belly laugh I have had in a long time!!!
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on January 26, 2006, 06:25:02 PM
Very glad of that Mum!

You're very welcome.

 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Portia on January 27, 2006, 12:41:49 PM
This made me laugh out loud in the (very quiet) shop. So I bought it to share :D The female assistant looked over and said "is it the one about the tablets?" and I thought, hey, it's not just me! Hope you like it

.............. :shock: it keeps coming out huge, like twice the size of a screen width. Anyone know how to make a jpeg file smaller? I'm doing it in Picture It and it says it's saved as less than 1cm tall....but ...not when i load it here. Sorry.  :roll:
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Plucky on January 27, 2006, 06:13:02 PM
Thank you Sela,
I have to chew on that one for a while.
Thanks for being so understanding over there on the other thread.
Plucky
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on February 06, 2006, 12:25:40 AM
You're welcome, Plucky.

I've been chewing on this one someone sent me:

>>WHEN YOU THOUGHT I WASN'T LOOKING
>> > >(Written by a former child)
>> > >
>> > >A message every adult should read, because children
>> > >are watching you and doing as you do, not as you say.
>> > >
>> > >When you thought I wasn't looking, I saw you hang my
>> > >first painting on the refrigerator, and I immediately wanted
>> > >to paint another one.
>> > >
>> > >When you thought I wasn't looking, I saw you feed a
>> > >stray cat, and I learned that it was good to be kind
>> > >to animals.
>> > >
>> > >When you thought I wasn't looking, I saw you make my
>> > >favorite cake for me and I learned that the little things can
>>>>be the special things in life.
>> > >
>> > >When you thought I wasn't looking, I heard you say a
>>>>>prayer, and I knew there is a God I could always talk to and I
>>>>>learned to trust in God.
>> > >
>> > >When you thought I wasn't looking, I saw you make a
>> > >meal and take it to a friend who was sick, and I
>> > >learned that we all have to help take care of each other.
>> > >
>> > >When you thought I wasn't looking, I saw you give of
>> > >your time and money to help people who had nothing
>> > >and I learned that those who have something should
>> > >give to those who don't.
>> > >
>> > >When you thought I wasn't looking, I saw you take
>> > >care of our house and everyone in it and I learned
>> > >we have to take care of what we are given.
>> > >
>> > >When you thought I wasn't looking, I saw how you
>> > >handled your responsibilities, even when you didn't
>>> >feel good and I learned that I would have to be
>> > >responsible when I grow up.
>> > >
>> > >When you thought I wasn't looking, I saw tears come
>> > >from your eyes and I learned that sometimes things
>> > >hurt, but it's all right to cry.
>> > >
>> > >When you thought I wasn't looking, I saw that you
>> > >cared and I wanted to be everything that I could be.
>> > >
>> > >When you thought I wasn't looking, I learned most of
>> > >life's lessons that I need to know to be a good and
>> > >productive person when I grow up.
>> > >
>> > >When you thought I wasn't looking, I looked at you
>> > >and wanted to say, "Thanks for all the things I saw
>> > >when you thought I wasn't looking."
>> > >
>> > >LITTLE EYES SEE A LOT.
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Hopalong on February 06, 2006, 04:37:05 AM
Plucky, was that you?
You okay?
Incognito?

I miss hearing you, hope you're all right.

Hopalong
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on February 09, 2006, 07:38:58 PM
The subject of sarcasm brought this to mind .....that one of my friends from the south sent to me:




The 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games are scheduled to be held in
Vancouver, BC, Canada.



Here are some questions people the world over are asking!!!! Believe it
or Not, these questions about Canada were posted on an International
Tourism Web site    (frightening, isn't it!)



Obviously the answers are jokes; but the questions were really
asked!!!!!.





Q: I have never seen it warm on Canadian TV, so how do the plants grow?
(UK)

A. We import all plants fully grown and then just sit around and watch
them die.





Q: Will I be able to see Polar Bears in the street? (USA)

A: Depends on how much you've been drinking.





Q: I want to walk from Vancouver to Toronto-can I follow the Railroad
tracks? (Sweden)

A: Sure, it's only Four thousand miles, take lots of water.





Q: Is it safe to run around in the bushes in Canada? (Sweden)

A: So it's true what they say about Swedes.





Q: It is imperative that I find the names and addresses of places to
contact for a stuffed Beaver. (Italy)

A: Let's not touch this one.



Q: Are there any ATM's (cash machines) in Canada? Can you send me a list
of them in Toronto, Vancouver, Edmonton and Halifax? (UK)

A: What did your last slave die of?





Q: Can you give me some information about hippo racing in Canada?(USA )

A: A-fri-ca is the big triangle shaped continent south of Europe.
Ca-na-da is that big country to your North...oh forget it. Sure, the
hippo racing is every Tuesday night in Calgary. Come naked.





Q: Which direction is North in Canada? (USA)

A: Face south and then turn 180 degrees Contact us when you get here and
we'll send the rest of the directions.



Q: Can I bring cutlery into Canada? (UK)

A: Why? Just use your fingers like we do.







Q: Can you send me the Vienna Boys' Choir schedule? (USA)

A: Aus-tri-a is that quaint little country bordering Ger-man-y, which
is...oh forget it. Sure, the Vienna Boys Choir plays every Tuesday night
in Vancouver and in Calgary, straight after the hippo races. Come naked.





Q: Do you have perfume in Canada? (Germany)

A: No, WE don't stink.



Q: I have developed a new product that is the fountain of youth.  Can
you sell it in Canada? (USA)

A:  Oh never.  We don't allow the sale of products.  We scavenge.
It keeps us young.




Q: Can you tell me the regions in British Columbia where the female
population is smaller than the male population? (Italy)

A: Yes, gay nightclubs.





Q: Do you celebrate Thanksgiving in Canada? (USA)

A: Only at Thanksgiving.





Q: Are there supermarkets in Toronto and is milk available all year
round?(Germany)

A: No, we are a peaceful civilization of Vegan hunter/gathers. Milk is
illegal.



Q: I have a question about a famous animal in Canada, but I forget its
name. It's a kind of big horse with horns. (USA)

A: It's called a Moose. They are tall and very violent, eating the
brains of anyone walking close to them. You can scare them off by
spraying yourself with human urine before you go out walking.



Q: Will I be able to speak English most places I go? (USA)

A: Yes, but you will have to learn it first.
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on February 10, 2006, 09:30:59 AM
I feel told.......

............this issssssssss how it is.

Rejected...... by not being allowed to speak back.

Locked out of any reply I might like to give over there.

Feels a lot like what my parents did when I was a child.

"SHUTTTTTTT UPPPPPPPPPP!"  or "Just wait 'til we get home!!"
(so we could deeeeeeeeeeeeeeal with it all in private where the reeeeeeeeeeeal stuff would remain hidden from the rest of the world).

They didn't like what I was saying either.

Makes me feel sad. :( And ticked off too.  :x   I've been told.  Oh well.  I can still speak. Hahaha!

This reminds me of something very positive (ain't that something?  8).)

Something I learned NOT to do by where and with whom I grew up.

In the 21 years I've been a parent, no matter how much I disagreed with, or didn't like what my children were saying sometimes,.....I have never once told them to a) shut up, or b) that they were not allowed to discuss things openly. 

And that makes me feel good.  I feel pretty good about that.  I did something good I think.

Lucky for me I can talk about anything here in this thread eh. :lol:

Like this:

Quote
Now I realize that you think interpersonal conflicts on board are fruitful, you can tell me that I learn from it etc. Well, I see thingss differently.

I'm not interested in joining a special unit with someone who defines what I think, defines which group I'm in, and who doesn't answer my questions openly and honestly.

My answer:  "No thanks".

Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Hopalong on February 10, 2006, 10:53:10 AM
Hi Sela,
If you're referring to the "SILENCE!" thread, I felt sad too. It also seemed ironic because I thought we were moving on from the Are We Okay thread. There were tensions and hurt feelings but I felt as though everyone REALLY got a chance to say their piece. And once the biggest pieces got said, it seemed okay to leave it behind.

Maybe I also felt guilty because I started that thread which seemed to deteriorate so much... I mean, it was a VERY insecure post I began it with, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised that it sparked similar feelings in others. When the crossfire started I didn't know what was coming so was a little deer-in-the-headlights about it.

(If you're referring to me locking the Are We Okay? thread, let me know...I may have misunderstood.) But it was ironic to me that when I wanted to PM the person who posted SILENCE! to ask a question, I couldn't, because he was a Guest. So I didn't say anything.

 :(
Hops
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on February 10, 2006, 11:08:23 AM
Hi (((((((((Hop))))))))):

Nope.  I wasn't referring to the "are we okay" thread or the "silence" thread.

I'm very sorry to have caused you any upset by my post above.  It had nothing to do with you at all.  I think it's ok to post  a very insecure post and I don't think it's your fault it went how it went.   Sorry you feel guilty for that.   I don't think you did anything wrong or bad there.

Quote
But it was ironic to me that when I wanted to PM the person who posted SILENCE! to ask a question, I couldn't, because he was a Guest. So I didn't say anything.

That is ironic isn't it?  Oh well.  You can ask your question here, if you like.  Or maybe you've changed your mind, and if so, that's ok too.   No worries Hop.

Sela


PS:  Sorry I got your name mixed up Hop and fixed it on edit.  Airhead!  Airhead alert!! :D
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Hopalong on February 10, 2006, 11:38:30 AM
Thanks, ducky. (Sela) (dunno if Yanks are supposed to call Brits "ducky" but I like it!)

I'm all squared away...reminded that I don't need to feel guilty for others' reactions to others' posts...

Geez. Miz Liddle Fixit, moi.
(Got plenty of work to do on moiself!)

 :P
Hops
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on February 10, 2006, 11:54:23 AM
Glad to hear it Hops! (about the squared away stuff)

Hey!  Do I sound like a brit??  I'm Canadian eh.  Heeheehee  :lol: I don't mind.  And you can call me ducky anytime you like.  All fluffy and bright.....sweet little quack.  Hahahaha!!  I'm taking it as a warm, cute response.  I can be an ugly duckling too, mind you.

I think that "fixit" thingy, for me.....comes from the panic I feel when conflict first arises.  I think that might be because I witnessed soooooo much of it, growing up, and it often led to violence. 

I do have a problem with being ...defined.  "You are....you think....you feel....you should....you, you, you...."

Nope.  I don't accept that any more.  I used to.  I used to believe it too!  But I'm learning.

 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Plucky on February 10, 2006, 03:28:57 PM
Hi everyone,
I think I am going to try to take a break from the board.  Not because of anything that happened up here, but because I have so much on my plate right now that spending 60-90 minutes every day doing this, as much as I crave it, is causing me problems in my flesh and blood life.  I need to focus more attention on my recently identified LD son, among other things.

So I will come up when I can but I am going to try to stay away and straighten things out here.  I hope everyone will progress loads while I am gone and leave me way behind!
Plucky 
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Hopalong on February 10, 2006, 03:58:53 PM
Plucky,
Good wishes while you work with your (((son))) and take good care of you.
It will be wonderful to hear from you when you update!

(I sure understand about the time...)

Big hugs,
Hopalong
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Moira on February 10, 2006, 04:39:54 PM
Hey Sela! You slay me...daily!!! hee hee!!! Have been off sick for a few weeks and not checking my email etc. Where do you come up with this stuff-no, don't spoil it for me!!! That bit on the Q&A about upcoming 2010 Olympics here in my home town of Vancouver- the whole Canada thing- I thought I would lose urinary continence!!! Hee hee!!! Showed it to some of my collegues- the dragon lady director knocked on my office door because we were cackling so loudly in here!! Thank you , thank you!!!!! you made my day. A big hug, Moira
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on February 14, 2006, 10:15:09 AM
Hi there Moira:

Sorry you've been sick.  Glad you're feeling better.

Yes...those were pretty funny, I thought.  Gave me a good laugh too, just when I needed it.  My friend sends me this stuff.  I have no idea where she comes up with it but she seems to find some of the silliest stuff going!  I thank her profusely for it!  Some days it really makes my day too!!  And I send anything along that I happen to find that fits the bill.

Happy Valentine's Day to All!!  I'm celebrating good feelings.  Hope your day is is lovely!! (((all)))

Here's a rather different poem:

Valentine's Day
by Monty Ashley

Once a priest named Valentine
was beheaded in AD two-six-nine.
At least, according to this book of mine,
Which adds that there were two other Valentines.

I don't know much about the other two,
but I assume that they were martyrs, too.
All three were eventually canonized
for being holy in the church's eyes.

In the sixteenth century, Saint Francis de Sales
Saw a ritual in which young pagan males
Would get random cards with the names of girls,
whom they would then woo (in some parts of the world).

Francis made cards with the names of the saints,
In the hope that the Pagans would be what they ain't.
It utterly failed, but oh well, at least
He linked Lupercalia with an innocent priest.

Then Al Capone's men in Nineteen-Twenty-Nine
Gunned down their rivals in a line.
Sadly for me, there were not nine,
but seven. Which I can't make rhyme.

This holiday thus has different meanings
felt by people according to their leanings.
To some, its a day for flowers and candy;
To others, a reason to get blitzed on brandy.

The heart was chosen for about the same reason
As roses, to show the intent of the season.
See, it's said that they look like parts of the body,
which I won't describe except to say that they're naughty.

Champagne and chocolate are frequently seen
as being "romantic" whatever that means.
As symbols for something that's vaguely defined,
They still stand for something ineffably fine.

So, keeping all off these things in mind,
The sex, the deaths, the flowers, the wine,
The devotion of priests, and the passage of time,
Will you be my Valentine?



Kind of .....a history lesson eh?
 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Healing&Hopeful on February 14, 2006, 11:26:40 AM
Happy Valentines... I've just read this after I posted my message.  In the words of Homer Simpson.... DOH!

Take care

H&H xx
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on February 15, 2006, 12:48:34 PM
No worries H&H!

Thanks for the good wishes.

Hope your day was lovely!

 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on February 24, 2006, 04:31:19 PM
"Too much indulgence has ruined thousands of children,
  too much love, not one."

             Fanny Fern, columnist
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on February 27, 2006, 05:25:24 PM

Quote
Trolls crave attention, and they care not whether it is positive or negative. They see the Internet as a mirror into which they can gaze in narcissistic rapture.

From:  http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Hopalong on February 27, 2006, 09:19:56 PM
Sela,
That was an eye-opening link about trolls, really helpful.

thanks,
Hops
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Portia on February 28, 2006, 08:10:10 AM
Oh Sela, another darn trigger! :shock:

The word ‘troll’. :?

I get all unnecessary about that word. The ideas behind it might be okay (might be) but the history of the word and it’s applications…..the thing is, we need trolls like we need enemies…to hate, to look down on, to scapegoat, to dump our stuff on….

It’s the word that triggers me! Because I was once called a troll? I wonder (yes I was called a troll once). Interesting. But oh so ….. thought-provoking and not easy or quick to think about and you know what? Sometimes my head hurts from thinking so I’m not gonna go there right now. I’ll let it sit at the back of my head for a while and see if anything emerges….(what an image haha!). Yikes.  :D

PS I like the FF quote. Very appropriate here I think too re how Ns can be made ........or so I've been led to believe in something I read somewhere once...

PPS. Sela I find this is interesting stuff and I got way-laid on this page http://members.aol.com/intwg/flamewars.htm#INTR particularly in reading about ‘anti-process’ and ‘abstraction’ which helped me and I can say I’ve done a lot of ‘instaclicks’. And the bit on flamebait got me annoyed... :shock: :D
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on February 28, 2006, 10:12:30 AM
Hiya Hop and P:

Ya.  I was called a troll once too.  I don't like the "label" either, to be honest.  I'm not in love with labels.  I wish the troll label could be changed to something with less baggage.....less history......less nastiness....like a cute little icon, or a special key on the keyboard.....sort of neutral in affect....like..... :|.  I did find the information informative though, according to the cyber definition of stuff.  Like you said Hop,
Quote
eye-opening

Quote
to hate, to look down on, to scapegoat, to dump our stuff on….

Me too.  I don't like that part of it at all.

I read some more on the links too.  Lot's there to ingest.  I saw stuff I've done that unzipped a few files in my head.   I'm trying to learn.  Glad some of it helped you both.  It helped me too.

I love this one:

Quote
"I came here for a good argument."
"No you didn't, you came here for an argument."
— Monty Python

 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Hopalong on February 28, 2006, 10:11:29 PM
Portia and Sela,
If you two are trolls I wanna go live under a bridge with you!
I recognize pieces of myself in there too...sometimes spurts of aggression (who's that? my evil twin? Naaah...not sweeeeet meeeeee....). But anyway heavens no I don't see you there.

I think it's more about an out-of-controlness and a desperation that makes some people really truly unable to communicate, so they get taken over by an inner terrier. I personally love terriers.

And P, this phrase made my little writerhead SO happy, thank you!   :P

Quote
I get all unnecessary about that word.

What a wonderful, wonderful expression. I hope to trot it out the rest of the week.

Got to go proofread a horrible boring long thing...that's why I haven't been posting much, but as Ahnuld said, I'll be BEK...

Hugs,
Hops
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on March 01, 2006, 04:22:02 PM
Thankyou (((Hop))).

Hope the boring reading stuff goes by quick.

Will be glad when you get bek. :D

Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on March 03, 2006, 01:33:52 PM
Been surfing again and came upon this far out (maybe a bit) excercise that sounds simple enough and like it might be of interest to others/useful for stress reduction (always something I am hungry for information about).

From:  http://www.armonia.tantrika.net/articles.htm

"In order to experience the benefits of Qigong you are welcome to try (and hopefully adopt) the following exercise.

1. Sit straight on a firm chair while resting the palms of your hands on you knees. Spine erect and shoulders    relaxed.
2. Close your eyes and breathe 9 full breaths - inhaling to the count of three and exhaling to the count of five. (Try to adjust the rhythm of your breath so that the exercise can be done with ease).
3. Raise your hands, palms facing each other, at the level of your navel.
4. Bring your awareness to the center of your palms and visualize as if you are holding a ball of light between your hands.
5. While inhaling enlarge the distance between your palms to about 1 meter, visualizing that the ball of light enlarges in size.
6. While exhaling reduce the distance between your palms to about 40 cm while visualizing the light concentrating within the ball.
7. Please repeat those movements until you experience sensations of warmth, tingling attraction or repulsion between the palms of your hands.
8. When you decide to stop, place your palms on the area below your navel while visualizing that the light and warmth you have generated between your palms is entering into your lower abdomen.
9. After one or two minutes return your hands to your knees and breathe 3 full breaths to complete the exercise.
 
You can use this exercise as part of your daily routine once (in the morning) or twice (morning and evening). This is a very simple and effective exercise that can help reduce stress, improve sleep and calm the mind."

I'm curious about this.

 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: mum on March 06, 2006, 08:56:00 AM
well, this is off topic, but this IS the anything thread...

Read this in the funny pages today, and instantly thought of my exN, and his "versions" of reality.

"The key to life is to declare all right and wrong relative.  Whenever someone says you're doing something wrong, you tell them it depends on one's definition of wrong....then you change the definition to suit your needs."

Now if that's not an N talking....I don't know what is!!!  It's from "Pearls before Swine", and if you know the comic, it's a quote from Rat...who is a flaming N (and mean to boot!!!)
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on March 18, 2006, 04:10:53 PM
Hiya Mum:

I haven't looked in here for awhile and just noticed your post.

Boy!  Does that comic ring bells for me!  I can just picture it too!  Wait a minute!!!.....

I found it!!

http://comics.com/comics/pearls/archive/pearls-20060306.html

Hits the spot, doesn't it?

How about this one?

http://comics.com/comics/pearls/archive/pearls-20060216.html

And the thing is.......some of us believed we were exactly as they defined us:  "failures". :(

But not now!!  Now our eyes are opening wider and wider and soon.....we'll be free of such nonsense.

Thanks for posting Mum.

 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on April 01, 2006, 12:24:10 PM

Three passions have governed my life:
The longings for love, the search for knowledge,
And unbearable pity for the suffering of [humankind].

Love brings ecstasy and relieves loneliness.
In the union of love I have seen
In a mystic miniature the prefiguring vision
Of the heavens that saints and poets have imagined.

With equal passion I have sought knowledge.
I have wished to understand the hearts of [people].
I have wished to know why the stars shine.

Love and knowledge led upwards to the heavens,
But always pity brought me back to earth;
Cries of pain reverberated in my heart
Of children in famine, of victims tortured
And of old people left helpless.
I long to alleviate the evil, but I cannot,
And I too suffer.

This has been my life; I found it worth living.

by Bertrand Russell  (adapted)

Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on April 07, 2006, 12:08:55 PM
Dream To Fly
-- Author Unknown


Larry Walters is among the relatively few who have actually turned their dreams into reality. His story is true, even though you may find it hard to believe.

Larry was a truck driver, but his lifelong dream was to fly. When he graduated from high school, he joined the Air Force in hopes of becoming a pilot. Unfortunately, poor eyesight disqualified him. So, when he finally left the service, he had to satisfy himself with watching others fly the fighter jets that criss-crossed the skies over his backyard. As he sat there in his lawn chair, he dreamed about the magic of flying.

Then one day, Larry Walters got an idea. He went down to the local Army-Navy surplus store and bought a tank of helium and forty-five weather balloons. These were not your brightly colored party balloons, these were heave-duty spheres measuring more than four feet across when fully inflated. Back in his yard, Larry used straps to attach the balloons to his lawn chair, the kind you might have in your own back yard.

He anchored the chair to the bumper of his jeep and inflated the balloons with helium. Then he packed some sandwiches and drinks and loaded a BB gun, figuring he could pop a few of those balloons when it was time to return to earth.

His preparations complete, Larry Walters sat in his chair and cut the anchoring cord. His plan was to lazily float up a ways, and then lazily back down to terra firma. But, things didn't quite work out that way.

When Larry cut the cord, he didn't float lazily up - he shot up as if fired from a cannon! Nor did he go up a couple hundred feet. He climbed and climbed, until he finally leveled off at eleven THOUSAND feet! At that height, he could hardly risk deflating any of the balloons, lest he unbalance the load and really experience flying! So, he stayed up there, sailing around for fourteen hours, totally at a loss as to how to get down. Eventually, Larry drifted into the approach corridor for Los Angeles International Airport. A Pan Am pilot radioed the tower about passing a guy in a lawn chair at eleven thousand feet... with a gun in his lap. (Now there's a conversation I would have liked to have heard!)

LAX is right on the ocean, and you may know that at nightfall, the winds on the coast begin to change. So, as dusk fell, Larry began drifting out to sea.

At that point, the Navy dispatched a helicopter to rescue him. But, the rescue team had a hard time getting to him, because the draft from their propeller kept pushing his home-made contraption farther and farther away. Eventually they were able to hover over him and drop a rescue line with which they gradually hauled him back to earth.

As soon as Larry hit the ground, he was arrested.

But as he was being led away in handcuffs, a television reporter called out to ask, "Mr. Walters, why did you do it?"

Larry stopped, eyed the man for a moment and replied nonchalantly,

"A man can't just sit around."
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: mum on April 07, 2006, 12:13:48 PM
Hi, Sela!
Have you seen the film "Danny Deckchair"? It is loosely based on this, I think.
I'm guessing you would like it.
BTW: check your PMs.
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Hopalong on April 07, 2006, 01:22:27 PM
 :D :D :D :D :D

that is the most AMAZING story.
Wonderful!

Thank you, Sela!

Hops
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Moira on April 11, 2006, 07:45:42 PM
hi All! Have been MIA for a while now and am back. An update on my nasty work scene with abusive N boss. went off on a medical leave for PTSD last Thurs. The shit just kept perking along and escalating. Me documenting everything and her staying late every night and checking all my case notes on all my clients looking for any little thing she could find. Daily e mails from her about bullshit like- " I don't like the spaces between your paragraphs....I don't like the headings you use in your notes"- etc. She was also accusing me of coming into the office " at all hours of the night and using your computer to surf the Net...I have proof". Unbelievable1 No proof ever offered and as if I'd be travelling many miles in my pj's in the dead of night to use my work computer!!!! She was actually checking office camera surveillance tapes daily trying to find evidence I was coming in!!! Insanity! Finally had a nasty mtg. last Thurs involving HR bastard( he and I have had years of go arounds of a less than pleasant nature!), nasty boss, my union and myself. I was accused of being A liar- no evidence offered and told " I was unsafe to practice and had been since last May"!!!! ridiculous!!! Every meeting and every one of their accusations is met with numerous grievances by my union but it was a losing prospect. I wanted out of there and she obviously felt the same! finally brokered a deal that if I went off on medical leave I could take my time and find a job anywhere in my service, seniority and vacation all portable, and then when I'm ready to go back to work, the union simply moves me into that position!!! Called " employer duty to accommodate worker with a disability"( am bipolar). Sooo..  good result in terms of getting outta there and moving on to a better job in a safer and hopefully, saner1 place---but a shitty and traumatic ride to get there! Not sleeping, having many nightmares, have lost a lot of weight and am having some less than normal thoughts! Have a great shrink, supportive friends, and am slowly starting to mend. One of the worst periods in my life- and there have been a few doozies! Hope everyone is well. am looking forward to getting back here on a regular basis. Have missed everyone! hugs, Moira
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: pennyplant on April 11, 2006, 08:07:01 PM
Hi Moira,

Just take care of yourself.  I'm glad you were able to get a medical leave and can keep your seniority etc.  My boss of five years ago was very similar to yours though not nearly as severe.  I walked out one day.  Just gave up a job I loved.  Had also lost weight, etc.  It took me four months to rest and be somewhat functioning again.  I'm so impressed with the fight you had in you under horrendous conditions.  Good for you!!!  Now take your time as much as possible and take very good care of yourself.  She is out of your life now and it is forward into something that is sure to be better.   :)

Pennyplant
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Hopalong on April 12, 2006, 08:32:01 AM
Hi Moira,
Good to hear your voice again.
I'm so sorry about what you've been through.
I hope it winds up being a threshold for something good.
Good for you for staying focused on your treatment and getting well.

Thanks for letting us know, and keep it up!
((((Moira))))

Hops
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Kheng on April 12, 2006, 08:35:43 AM
This should probably be taped to your bathroom mirror where one could read it every day. You may not realize it, but it's 100% true.

1. There are at least two people in this world that you would die for.
2. At least 15 people in this world love you in some way.
3. The only reason anyone would ever hate you is because they want to be just like you.
4. A smile from you can bring happiness to anyone, even if they don't like you.
5. Every night, SOMEONE thinks about you before they go to sleep.
6. You mean the world to someone.
7. You are special and unique.
8. Someone that you don't even know exists loves you.
9. When you make the biggest mistake ever, something good comes from it.
10. When you think the world has turned its back on you take another look.
11. Always remember the compliments you received. Forget about the rude remarks.

And always remember....when life hands you Lemons, ask for tequila and salt and call a friend over!
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on April 12, 2006, 12:40:08 PM
Hey all!

Oh Mum!  I'll have to see that movie!  It sounds like the kind of ridiculous humour I love!  Thanks!

Hoppy:  Glad you liked it!  It made me giggle a little, imagining this guy and his wacky attempt to fly!!

"A man can't just sit around!!"

Gives me so much incentive to live.  Even if I am making mistakes left, right and centre........it's better than not trying eh?  (especially when I do some stuff right!!  8)).

Hi Moira:  Gee.  That sounds so very hard to live through.  I echo Penny's admiration for your steadfast combat!!  And I'm glad you will finally be outta there!!  Hoping and praying for you that it will be much better at your new position.  What a relief I bet you feel eh?    Glad that horrible time is over now.  Take special care of you for awhile.  You deserve the rest and probably need it to recoup.  Glad you're back posting!

Hey Penny:   
Quote
I walked out one day.  Just gave up a job I loved.  Had also lost weight, etc.  It took me four months to rest and be somewhat functioning again.

That took great courage and sacrifice.  I think it's a fantastic sign of you doing what you had to do to save you.  And that......is a beautiful thing!!!  (even though I'm sure it didn't seem so at the time).   :(  Sorry you had to go through all of that.  And I'm so glad you were able to be so brave and give up what you loved in order to preserve your sanity.  That does not sound like an easy thing to do at all.  You are equally admirable!

Kheng:  I like the list you posted.  You're right though......I don't realize it and honestly, I'm having a hard time believing it's 100% true.  But there is lot's of good stuff in that list worth believing in and holding onto 100%, imo.  Thanks for posting.

I'm off to the north until after Easter.  I hope you will all have a wonderful, safe, healthy, happy Easter and that something new and wonderful will be resurrected within you.

You are......after all.......special and unique.   You just don't go around proclaiming it!! Hahahaha!!

"I'm special and unique!!  Hear ye!  Hear ye!!  I said IIIIIIIIIIIII am special..............and .....unique!!"

 :lol:

But inside.........I think we would all do well.........to acknowledge this to ourselves and celebrate it a little eh?

So go ahead...........eat some chocolate!!!   :D :D

Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: pennyplant on April 12, 2006, 09:08:12 PM

1. There are at least two people in this world that you would die for.
2. At least 15 people in this world love you in some way.
3. The only reason anyone would ever hate you is because they want to be just like you.
4. A smile from you can bring happiness to anyone, even if they don't like you.
5. Every night, SOMEONE thinks about you before they go to sleep.
6. You mean the world to someone.
7. You are special and unique.
8. Someone that you don't even know exists loves you.
9. When you make the biggest mistake ever, something good comes from it.
10. When you think the world has turned its back on you take another look.
11. Always remember the compliments you received. Forget about the rude remarks.


I've received this list in my emails a few times.  At first I thought, well how can anyone know this or believe this?  Then I turned it around.  There are people I think of who may not even know me or think of me but I remember the impact they had on me.  There are people who seem happy to see me and I hardly know them and maybe I did something I don't remember but they do and that made their day.  I sort of went through the list and brainstormed from my memories and it started to make sense and make me feel less lonely.  I don't know who originated this list but it's making it way around the internet.  I like it.

Pennyplant
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: moonlight52 on April 13, 2006, 12:15:04 PM
HI   PP  From what I can tell PennyPlant does not give up on people even when they are ready to give up on them selves.
                     
           Hugs
           Moonlight                 






Title: Re: Anything
Post by: pennyplant on April 13, 2006, 12:35:43 PM
 :D  Thanks, Moon, I'm pretty persistant. 

And sometimes what's in a person's  heart just shows all over the place.  I just keep an eye out for that.

PP
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Moira on April 13, 2006, 07:14:54 PM
Hi All!!! Good to be back here! Missed everyone of you!!! Thanks so much for the support and encouragement- means a lot to me. Have been off work and outta the snake pit for almost three weeks now. Haven't started the harassment and discrimination complaints against my evil boss yet. Am feeling somewhat ambivalent about going after her even though I feel there should be some kind of accountability. Am having high anxiety about it coming at my expense. although I never have to work with N boss again, I still have to deal with N HR dude- and he has had his knives out for me for years. I also know full well that even if my boss is found guilty of harassment, there will be minimal- if not any- repurcussions for her as the upper managemtn is chock full of ambitous N sharks who all protect each other. I am also considering checking out Human Rights Comission to see if i have any grounds for a complaint there as I know that would carry more weight and there would be consequences and accountability. Have to be certain I do have grounds to proceeed. An update on my ex N partner- after a year of splitsville he continues to harass me and is now stalking me. Persistent and getting crazier by the minute. I haven't spoken to him, acknowledged him or returned any calls/emails since last October but he continues. We are both in NA and I've dropped out of my home group and don't go to any meetings i know he attends. I had almost six weeks repreive but that ended a month ago. He's back into calling me and leaving abusive messages or telling me he KNOWS " I'm still in love with him". Delusional to the max!!!! I've blocked his phone but he uses other phones. Am changing my number tomorrow. He has also sent me numerous bizarre and nasty e mails in the last two weeks. Bizarre and unfounded accusations, declarations I love him, and one that was full of nasty and explicitly sexual crap. The opening line of that one was " You're bisexual, youlove it up the ass, you love giving guys hand jobs under restaurant tables, blow jobs in cars and washrooms, you have a f--k buddy and you love letting guys watch you with another girl". Hmmm!!!! Interesting stuff coming from a N sexa ddict who is obsessed and hates me. No history of violence that I'm aware of- and " aware of" is the iperative word here. Am not naive enough to presume just because I don't know about past history, there might not be one of violence. Of more concern- have seen him a block from my place several times in the past few weeks- has friends that live one street over from me. And he left me a message a week ago indicating he knew i'd had lunch with a male friend of mine and  named the date, location and time. He is following me. I have spoken with police and they are coming tonight to talk with me. Have done a detailed report for them as has my current boyfriend who is also being harasswed by ex N. All my friends know about this as well and most of them know ex and see him  in action. Lots of reliable witnesses. Don't go anywhere alone. am moving shortly as well. Am pissed off I have to take such drastic measures and disrupt my life so much- esp. with asll thisother shit going on- but my safety and sanity are prioities. Catch ya later. Happy Easter to all- and if it's not a religoius holiday for you- stuff yourself with chocolate!!! Hugs, Moira
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: kheng as guest on April 13, 2006, 11:33:49 PM
I got the following via email.  I thought they are were interesting.


ONE. Give people more than they expect and do it cheerfully.

TWO. Marry a man/woman you love to talk to. As you get older, their conversational skills will be as important as any other.

THREE. Don't believe all you hear, spend all you have or sleep all you want.

FOUR. When you say, "I love you," mean it.

FIVE. When you say, "I'm sorry," look the person in the eye.

SIX. Be engaged at least six months before you get married.

SEVEN. Believe in love at first sight.

EIGHT. Never laugh at anyone's dream. People who don't have dreams don't have much.

NINE. Love deeply and passionately. You might get hurt but it's the only way to live life completely.

TEN.. In disagreements, fight fairly. No name calling.

ELEVEN. Don't judge people by their relatives.

TWELVE. Talk slowly but think quickly.

THIRTEEN. When someone asks you a question you don't want to answer, smile and ask, "Why do you want to know?"

FOURTEEN. Remember that great love and great achievements involve great risk.

FIFTEEN. Say "bless you" when you hear someone sneeze.

SIXTEEN. When you lose, don't lose the lesson

SEVENTEEN. Remember the three R's: R espect for self; Respect for others; and responsibility for all your actions.

EIGHTEEN. Don't let a little dispute injure a great friendship.

NINETEEN. When you realize you've made a mistake, take immediate steps to correct it.

TWENTY. Smile when picking up the phone. The caller will hear it in your voice.

TWENTY-ONE. Spend some time alone.
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: mum on April 14, 2006, 12:21:00 AM
ok, this is off the wall, but the one about saying "bless you" got me remembering:
At work, my husband said "god bless you" or perhaps just "g'bless you" (you know how that sounds) to a woman who sneezed. She told him she was extremely offended that he would push his religious beliefs on her!  (to make it funnier, you have to know that my husband is not a religious zealot or even religious, and certainly doesn't talk about that at work) anyway, isn't that hilarious!!??
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Hopalong on April 15, 2006, 10:25:52 AM
Here in the Southern U.S., one of my favorite ironies is that so many Nice Southern Ladies did this strange thing when I was little. It used to confuse me and now it amuses me (it's a great shorthand joke for one friend and me):

The Lady would say something basically cruel about someone and follow it INSTANTLY with "bless his heart." So when I was tiny, I'd be trying to track the grownup conversation and I'd have my junior Jesus thoughts in, so when the lady said, "He's just as dumb as a post" I'd think "ow, that was a mean thing to say" but then the next thing out of her mouth would be "bless his heart" so I'd think "but she's giving a blessing (that's what we did at the dinner table) so it must be a kind thing..." until my little head spun. Later on I realized it was just a spiteful thought and the blessing was their CYA remark.

"She's as big as a heifer blessherheart..."
"He drinks like a fish blesshisheart..."
"And she has such buck teeth blessherheart..." etc.

Hops, blessmyheart

Title: Re: Anything
Post by: revidevia1905 on April 17, 2006, 03:21:46 AM
Hopalong, that was priceless...my mother used to do that with the tag-line "God help him/her/them/us".  Good way to absolutely crucify anybody and seem like such a pious soul whilst doing it.  That was the Southern Irish/Redemptorist version of that "blessing".  

How do you counteract those tapes?  :|  
I'll have to keep reading, see if that's been discussed somewhere here already.  They're so insidious for me, and I try to catch it, but it's as if those "blessings" come out of the mouths of those around me even now.  It can trigger me in a nanosecond.

Good thread - thanks, and hope you all sleep well tonight.
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Hopalong on April 18, 2006, 10:20:56 AM
I think one reason I became a Unitarian Universalist was because of the belief in universal salvation. As a little kid, some theology I was taught felt like a "bless yer heart":

God may burn you in the eternal flames of hell but he loves you so much, bless your heart.

Whack! Pat! Yowsa. My little head spun, and I guess it never stopped.

Hops
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Marta on April 18, 2006, 12:21:30 PM
Archaic Torso of Apollo
   
 
We cannot know his legendary head
with eyes like ripening fruit. And yet his torso
is still suffused with brilliance from inside,
like a lamp, in which his gaze, now turned to low,

gleams in all its power. Otherwise
the curved breast could not dazzle you so, nor could
a smile run through the placid hips and thighs
to that dark center where procreation flared.

Otherwise this stone would seem defaced
beneath the translucent cascade of the shoulders
and would not glisten like a wild beast’s fur:

would not, from all the borders of itself,
burst like a star: for here there is no place
that does not see you. You must change your life.

Rainer Maria Rilke 


Diving into the wreck

First having read the book of myths,
and loaded the camera,
and checked the edge of the knife-blade,
I put on
the body-armor of black rubber
the absurd flippers
the grave and awkward mask.
I am having to do this
not like Cousteau with his
assiduous team
aboard the sun-flooded schooner
but here alone.

There is a ladder.
The ladder is always there
hanging innocently
close to the side of the schooner.
We know what it is for,
we who have used it.
Otherwise
it is a piece of maritime floss
some sundry equipment.

I go down.
Rung after rung and still
the oxygen immerses me
the blue light
the clear atoms
of our human air.
I go down.
My flippers cripple me,
I crawl like an insect down the ladder
and there is no one
to tell me when the ocean
will begin.

First the air is blue and then
it is bluer and then green and then
black I am blacking out and yet
my mask is powerful
it pumps my blood with power
the sea is another story
the sea is not a question of power
I have to learn alone
to turn my body without force
in the deep element.

And now: it is easy to forget
what I came for
among so many who have always
lived here
swaying their crenellated fans
between the reefs
and besides
you breathe differently down here.

I came to explore the wreck.
The words are purposes.
The words are maps.
I came to see the damage that was done
and the treasures that prevail.
I stroke the beam of my lamp
slowly along the flank
of something more permanent
than fish or weed

the thing I came for:
the wreck and not the story of the wreck
the thing itself and not the myth
the drowned face always staring
toward the sun
the evidence of damage
worn by salt and away into this threadbare beauty
the ribs of the disaster
curving their assertion
among the tentative haunters.

This is the place.
And I am here, the mermaid whose dark hair
streams black, the merman in his armored body.
We circle silently
about the wreck
we dive into the hold.
I am she: I am he

whose drowned face sleeps with open eyes
whose breasts still bear the stress
whose silver, copper, vermeil cargo lies
obscurely inside barrels
half-wedged and left to rot
we are the half-destroyed instruments
that once held to a course
the water-eaten log
the fouled compass

We are, I am, you are
by cowardice or courage
the one who find our way
back to this scene
carrying a knife, a camera
a book of myths
in which
our names do not appear.

--Adrienne Rich
 
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: ANewSheriff on April 18, 2006, 07:52:27 PM
Hopalong: 
Quote
"She's as big as a heifer blessherheart..."
"He drinks like a fish blesshisheart..."
"And she has such buck teeth blessherheart..." etc.

That is so funny.  I am still laughing.  Thank you...

Teartracks: 
Quote
The Mom would get a big pinch of flesh and all but wring it off the bone, while communicating clearly with her look that if the kid even grimaced, there was more where that came from.  Is this purely a southern practice?

I know of quite a few Catholic families that practice this ritual in the Midwest.   :lol:
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: moonlight52 on April 18, 2006, 09:23:17 PM
Marta  The poems are deeply moving   Thank you
                        Moonlight
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Marta on April 24, 2006, 01:55:51 AM
((((((((((Layers)))))))))))

I have walked through many lives,
some of them my own,
and I am not who I was,
though some principle of being
abides, from which I struggle
not to stray.
When I look behind,
as I am compelled to look
before I can gather strength
to proceed on my journey,
I see the milestones dwindling
toward the horizon
and the slow fires trailing
from the abandoned camp-sites,
over which scavenger angels
wheel on heavy wings.
Oh, I have made myself a tribe
out of my true affections,
and my tribe is scattered!
How shall the heart be reconciled
to its feast of losses?
In a rising wind
the manic dust of my friends,
those who fell along the way,
bitterly stings my face.
Yet I turn, I turn,
exulting somewhat,
with my will intact to go
wherever I need to go,
and every stone on the road
precious to me.
In my darkest night,
when the moon was covered
and I roamed through wreckage,
a nimbus-clouded voice
directed me:
"Live in the layers,
not on the litter."
Though I lack the art
to decipher it,
no doubt the next chapter
in my book of transformations
is already written.
I am not done with my changes.


-- Stanley Kunitz

Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Hopalong on April 24, 2006, 09:23:57 AM
I love Kunitz. He was a mentor of mine.

Hops
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: moonlight52 on April 24, 2006, 12:58:00 PM
Hello Marta     I have never read Stanley Kunitz I will now proceed to read everything of his I can .The hearts a funny thing we must let our hearts find a small safe sweet place to rest, a poem can be that place  .Great Poem
Moon
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: moonlight52 on April 26, 2006, 03:13:23 PM
Hi All                 Last year my oldest daughter started dating a young fellow she went to high school with,he had been out of state for 10 years.Over that time he had always written to my daughter.He has family here in our state.So when he moved back they saw each other dated 6 months and then moved in together after dating 6 months.My husband and I tried to get her not to move in with him .Well after 3 months and no red flags on Christmas Eve Eve of 2005 this fellow Hit my child in the head causing a artery to break and a blood clot to form in her head .Had she not been in such tip top physical shape I do not know if the outcome would have been as great as it as been.She had to have surgery to remove the blood clot.This fellow hit her because she wanted to go and visit with some girlfriends and he did not want her to go.and he kept her kidnapped for 4 hours.until she tricked him and got away to mom and dads house.My daughter is brave and 100% healed Thank goodness!
And lives at home for now.We just got news it will go to trial soon.My child sez she is not afraid of trial and just does not want any one else to get hurt by this guy .This fellow is in jail has a big bond and will get 8-10 years for what he did.My daughter is so brave.
Moon

Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Hopalong on April 26, 2006, 05:44:55 PM
Good lord, Moon. I am so sorry for what your D went through (and her parents too).
What a terrible experience, and what a blessing she's strong and has you and your DH.

I hope she heals completely and has no aftereffects.
I hope she memorizes these warning signs of an abuser:

http://counsellingresource.com/quizzes/loser/index.html

Hugs to you both,

Hops
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: gratitude28 on April 26, 2006, 11:13:55 PM
Yes your daughter is brave and so are you. You are doing the right thing by prosecuting him so that he can never do this to another person. God Bless you and may the law punish him to its full ability.
Love, Beth
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: moonlight52 on April 26, 2006, 11:54:43 PM
Hi Hops and Gratitude  Our daughter's  doing well .She is going to school and has a part time job and seems to be happy to be home.
Truth be told her Dad and I are happy she is home. We are glad to  see both our girls safe in their beds at nite.Thanks HOPS for the information.We have just been going thur all kinds of emotions all protecting our sweetest one that got hurt so bad .But not forgetting the emotions of our little 13 year old. We have come a long way.We go to the park together or to the movies on the weekends a lot.Our oldest has gotten close to all her girl friends again and is just working on herself.My oldest is reading about relationships to see why she did not see any red flags on this guy .Well she sez I am the one that has put him in jail so he can not hurt any one else. She sez I guess God thought I was strong enough for the job.
Thats one way to look at it.We are just so lucky the 4 of us are all OK .Do I say my prayers of thanks at night yes I do.
Love and light
Moonlight
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on May 01, 2006, 06:30:07 PM
Hi all:

I was looking through some old magazines and an artical caught my eye: "The healing truth", by Curtis Foreman (Alive, vol no 258, April 2004, pg 106-108).  In it some information about "the complex relationship between physical and emotional health" was compared.   Here are some bits of the article:

Quote
"Ten years ago, my grandmother visited her doctor, complaining of stomach pains.  After a few tests, the results came in:  cancer.

She was frightened and upset, but immediately announced that she would have nothing to do with radiation or chemicals.

.........Much has been said about the value of positive thinking in dealing with cancer, but my grandmother's approach was anything but positive...............

...........Recovering from her surgery some months later, my grandmother refused painkillers.  "Those doctors just want to get everyone hooked." she confinded in me, glaring at the nurses.

..........The "fighting spirit" she demonstrated may be what many researchers have claimed significantly increases a person's ability to recover from cancer.

...........Cancer patients who keep up a false front in the name of 'positive attitude' are doing themselves a disservice.

..................negative emotions did not translate to a reduced likelihood of recovery from cancer.  Factors that did contribute included suppressing one's true self as unacceptable; feeling obliged to conform to social conventions; and sacrificing one's own desires for the sake of other people.  The supporting evidence was real and measurable---in one study she conducted, Temoshok found that melanoma patients who rated highter on a scale of emotional expression had less aggressive tumours and stronger T-cell immunity.

Temoshok's work revealed that an artificially positive outlook can actually be harmful.

.................For people diagnosed with cancer, one of the most difficult aspects of dealing with the illness can be the pressure to remain positive.  People who are naturally positive may thrive under this pressure, but for those with a different coping style, the exhortations to "think positively" may go against the grain.

More and more, we are learning that it is okay to react in different ways.  Some people will fight cancer with love, some with anger.  The important thing is to fight it.

.................Sadness, fear, and anger are natural responses to adversity.   It takes courage and honesty to express all our feelings, positive and negative, and it is the courageous and honest among us who stand the greatest chance of overcoming any obstacle placed before them.

And what of my grandmother, who fought her cancer with every stubborn, ill-tempered bone in her body?  Ten years later, she's still tending her own roses, thank you very much."

This really struck me.  I think I do cope, usually, with adversity by maintaining as positive an outlook as I can and now....I wonder.....have I done myself harm?  A disservice?  Maybe not, since it seems to be my personal way of getting by but I learned real quick that I might not be helping others by suggesting they do the same thing.  :shock: :oops: :oops:  Better be careful of that eh?

And who ever heard of fighting tooth and nail with every stubborn, ill-tempered bone having anything to do with surviving cancer???  :shock: :shock:
But it works sometimes, it seems!!!   :shock: :shock: 8)

Plus.......when I take this info and apply it to any basic situation where people have strong, reactive feelings to events/situations/circumstance (especially trauma and abuse)?????  It's that fighting spirit we all need (positive or negative, as suits us best, I guess).

Maybe I've misunderstood some people? :? :?  I think I might not have realized that their way of surviving (which could seem a little nasty to me) might be the exact thing that was needed in order for that person to make it through whatever they were withstanding.

And the biggie..........it sort of confimed what I've believed for so long......that getting the feelings out is the major factor in getting well (and that not doing that.....denying feelings.....holding them in.......pretending everything is ok.....being positive when it's not what one usually does........can set people back....maybe even waste much needed energy??? :shock:)......worse........allow the pain/cancer ......to keep growing!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:  (containing the real emotions = stalling progress of health???).

Finally, I have felt like I have suffered through cancer of my emotions.  Probably others will relate to that statement.  And now, I'm trying to nourish what's left and get to the most healthy state possible, which greatly includes......using my positive thinking/attitude/outlook to help myself, which works for me.

Maybe, others are trying to do the same thing but they're using a totally opposite (or what seems like it to me) method?

I've still lot's to learn, I think.

 :D Sela
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: pennyplant on May 01, 2006, 07:17:53 PM
Hi Sela,

I had a couple paragraphs all typed up in response to your post and then lost it all   :(  .

Try again:  This is an interesting topic to me.  I have always figured if positive attitude was necessary for cancer survival, then I was a goner!  When things go badly I get mad or sad.  But if healthy expression of whatever your real emotions are is the key, then maybe I've got a chance!  Just need to work on learning what my emotions are and being brave enough to feel them.

If you're interested in another aspect of this same topic, there is a series of newspaper articles by Alicia Parlette describing her battle with a rare form of cancer.  She is only in her twenties and is the daughter of a woman who died young of cancer.  In her articles she tells about her emotional state of mind through everything.  It is really complex.  It is at www.sfgate.com/alicia if you'd like to read the series.  For me personally, reading these articles helps me learn to tap into my own emotions which I learned to repress most of my life.

The positive attitude may be good in many ways if it is your natural bent.  Of the people I know who lived longer than expected with cancer, they all had what I would call a "can-do" attitude.  They lived life to the fullest possible measure while they still could.  Someone I knew who was given only months to live actually survived three years.  She was upbeat, because she really felt that way, and kept up all the normal activities as long as she possibly could.  Things she had taken joy in all her life.  My father had a prognosis of 6 to 18 months and made it 16  months.  But he had poor health to begin with so I think he did very well considering that.  He kept his mind busy, busy all the time searching for solutions to all the problems great and small that came along during the illness.  He gave himself goals and gave himself permission to express himself more than before.  He really tried to live while he was alive.

I've also known people who I thought were "too mean to die".  They sure didn't think they needed to fake it!

Your article makes a lot of sense.

Pennyplant
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Sela on May 01, 2006, 08:14:25 PM
Wow Penny!

There is so much there!  I read chapter 17 and I see so many positive things in Alicia's struggle, including the fact that she seems to just want to be real about what she feels.

When people are faced with life and death situations.......suddenly life........is worth fighting for (quite often, I think).

To me this is what I was getting at in posting this.  We are all the same and we are all different.  It doesn't matter what our beliefs are or what type of battle we are facing.  It's how we use our beliefs to help ourselves and how bravely and honestly we face the battle that will bring us safely through in the end (or in the case of the disease cancer.......has the best chance of bringing us through). 

Quote
I had a couple paragraphs all typed up in response to your post and then lost it all     .

Try again:

There's an example.  I hate it when that happens.....when I type a bunch of stuff and that green cybertooth monster (which is what I picture it as)....steals my posts!!  In your case.....

"Try again".

Way to go Penny!!  You're not a givver upper!!  :D :D

Quote
When things go badly I get mad or sad.

I think anger can be like fuel, in a way.  And sadness is just a way of not denying.  If you felt numb.....I'd be worried.  If you felt elated.  I'd be really worried. 

 "Yay!!  Things are going badly!!!"

 :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
Can you imagine someone screaming that one from the roof tops??  :shock: :shock: :lol:

Quote
Just need to work on learning what my emotions are and being brave enough to feel them.

Me too.  I really have to pay attention to that.  Sometimes I don't have a clue.  I'm all brain.....thinking....and wheels turning and smoke puffing out from here and there until I pay attention. :oops: :oops: 

Quote
He really tried to live while he was alive.

I'm so sorry for the loss of your dad Penny.  :( :(  He sounds like he was an amazing person.  I love that he really tried to live while he was alive.

That's what I want to do only I don't want to wait until I'm dying to start doing it.

Life is just too darn short!!

Quote
I've also known people who I thought were "too mean to die".  They sure didn't think they needed to fake it!

Yep.  Gives "The good die young" real meaning doesn't it?  I don't really think that expression means age.  I think it means......humility.

Thanks for reading and posting Penny.  Always good to read you.

 :D Sela

Title: Re: Anything
Post by: pennyplant on May 01, 2006, 10:05:09 PM

There's an example.  I hate it when that happens.....when I type a bunch of stuff and that green cybertooth monster (which is what I picture it as)....steals my posts!!  ...............



I'm so sorry for the loss of your dad Penny.  :( :(  He sounds like he was an amazing person.  I love that he really tried to live while he was alive.

That's what I want to do only I don't want to wait until I'm dying to start doing it.

Life is just too darn short!!


Well, in this case I was the green cybertooth monster--meant to hit minimize and hit close instead   :?  .  Oh well, most of it came back to me!

Thank you, Sela.  I never thought my father was amazing until I got to see the real person.  He struggled a lot with his awkwardness socially and I think basically decided to keep it all inside so as not to make mistakes with people.  So, there were many, many misunderstandings and hurt feelings over the years.  So much "disconnect".  But with illness and cancer came the opportunity to see what the man was really made of.  And it turned out to be a really decent person in there.  Of course I can't go back in time to fix anything, and he even told me, when he was young he was just not capable of doing what it would have taken to make things work back then.  But that he figured it out and admitted it--well, I was impressed.

Yes, life is way too short and goes by way too fast.  Now is the time to make the most of it.

Thank you for the feedback (and the praise--which I don't usually handle too well   :oops:  ).

Pennyplant
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: MarisaML on May 02, 2006, 12:29:09 AM
Oh my!  Cancer.  This is a hard one.  I lost my Mom 11 years ago to the disease.  And I do feel so much for those having to go through this.  Not just for the patients but their loved ones.. it's hard for all.  I promised myself a long time ago to never shy away from people who are experiencing this.  As so many people did with my family.  In my mind, anyway, I feel that there is strength in numbers and when faced with cancer it is comforting to have a lot of support.  Even as I say that I won't shy away there is a part of me that would like to avoid the subject because all of these old emotions start rising to the surface again.  Is that bad?  I hope that you have plenty of love and support in your life and if you need more then you can find it here.   :)
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: pennyplant on May 02, 2006, 08:55:27 AM
I promised myself a long time ago to never shy away from people who are experiencing this.  As so many people did with my family.  In my mind, anyway, I feel that there is strength in numbers and when faced with cancer it is comforting to have a lot of support.  Even as I say that I won't shy away there is a part of me that would like to avoid the subject because all of these old emotions start rising to the surface again.  Is that bad?  I hope that you have plenty of love and support in your life and if you need more then you can find it here.   :)

It's not bad, it's the best you can do.  If people understand why you can't always face it, then I'm sure they shouldn't hold it against you.  After my father died, I must have had the opportunity to attend six funerals in one year.  At first I was almost eager to attend because it was fresh in my mind how good it felt that people came to the funeral home for us.  But after awhile, I started dreading them.  It was too much too soon.

I know of people whose families faced cancer and lost much of their support.  Old family friends fell away because they couldn't deal with it.  What a terrible impact THAT has on the survivors.  The particular person I'm thinking of, that this happened to, has never let go of the anger over that.

I know people who have grieved, or perhaps not grieved, for so long and so hard, that they can hardly bear to buy a sympathy card when someone they know has a loss.  It's just never an easy thing for anyone.  I try to accept whatever people can give.  It helps to know where someone is coming from on that.  What their personal history is with loss.

My loss is something that I have talked about maybe more than some people do.  I know someone who has a similar experience to me but it is hard for them to participate in that kind of conversation.  So, it is something of an unspoken connection.  In fact, that particular connection is a difficult one for many reasons.  But it will always be there in my opinion.  Very subtle support?  In my own mind maybe?  It means something to me at any rate.

MarisaML, did you make the comment before about giving yourself all the time necessary and going into nature and sort of being a child as part of grieving?  Am I getting that right?  It's only been a year and a half for me.  I feel improved, but definitely not the same as I have ever felt before.  It is hard to think of how long it will take to get used to these new feelings.  Like getting to know a stranger sometimes.  Only the stranger is me!

PP
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Portia on May 02, 2006, 09:39:36 AM
Hi Sela, this is something I’ve been ‘working’ on I think/feel. Getting to the point where I truly believe that whatever I feel, it’s what I feel and I gotta deal with it. I think before that I was working to someone else’s agenda (the little someone in my head that’s not the true ‘me’, the tape from my parents). That agenda was: “I must get well! I must do it the ‘right’ way! And if I feel like something isn’t right for me, hey, I must be wrong/stupid/bad” etc and..... rewind :?

Maybe I've misunderstood some people?     I think I might not have realized that their way of surviving (which could seem a little nasty to me) might be the exact thing that was needed in order for that person to make it through whatever they were withstanding.

I guess my questions would be: are those strategies hurting other people (like abusing to feel relief, in which case they suck) and is the person going through, or remaining stuck, using their particular strategy? And who decides whether someone is stuck in denial or is surviving successfully? Is denial a legitimate survival strategy? I guess…..yes? because otherwise…..the system would break down. Ow making my head hurt.

that getting the feelings out is the major factor in getting well (and that not doing that.....denying feelings.....holding them in.......pretending everything is ok.....being positive when it's not what one usually does........can set people back

I don’t know Sela. A terrific shock to someone in denial might send them over the edge – an overwhelm of emotion that gets repressed/managed by one of the more serious survival strategies such as schizophrenia? Don't know.

On the other hand, I remember you talking to me about behavioural stuff / positive thinking and me saying nope, nope, not having it, no thanks! I think if people are prone to being influenced (people-pleasers) then yes, the positive thinking thing may well have an adverse effect (because they’ll be doing it to please and conform, not because it feels good to them). Does it set them back? I doubt it sets anyone back: they might remain in the same place, but I doubt it could make it worse……unless in the case of an illness, their worry about trying to be positive and not being a perfect patient actually makes them more ill. Interesting. So yes, trying to impose our thoughts on other people can have a bad effect. I guess the point is trying to understand it from their point of view ...... and thinking also....are they hurting others in their strategies?? Ooooo moral stuff. (I've been reading about murderers and other abusers and basically, for some people, there is No Answer. I don't like that but it seems to be how it is.)

PennyPlant:

Just need to work on learning what my emotions are and being brave enough to feel them.

I guess being brave is the key. Facing and not turning away from yourself. Where an N’s shame is involved though, I can see that this ain’t gonna work. The survival strategy is hiding self from self. And it won't shift!

I think I’ve learned the difference between helpful positive thinking and harmful positive thinking!!!  :D Thanks for the thought-food Sela. I am now receptive to positive ideas and I know from my own experience that I can reprogram some of those old tapes. I’m not afraid of mind-control any more! At least, not as long as I’m the one doing it to myself. I have you to thank for your persistence there with me; it took a long time, or rather, i took a long time, hey maybe I did it myself too? High fives all round 8)

As Storm says, it’s about being real. I like that.

Marisa, is it bad, to want to avoid things that upset you? If it’s not necessary for you to confront this day in day out, and you don’t want to, that seems healthy to me. Why make yourself sad if it isn’t necessary? You’re allowed to say, no thanks, not for me, if that feels right for you. i think.

Edit in

PP

that they can hardly bear to buy a sympathy card when someone they know has a loss.

Just read your post above and was hit by this. I have huge trouble. I dislike buying any kind of card. It seems so trite. Cards are ……….an issue for me. I guess I’ve received so many insincere, manipulative cards from parents that I can’t deal with it ‘normally’. I can’t handle cards! Ridiculous but recent events have proved it to me, and I’ve only seen it now, having seen your words. I am triggered by cards. Sheesh. Just wanted to state that because it’s so banal.
Title: Re: Anything
Post by: Hopalong on May 02, 2006, 10:15:08 AM
Quote
like abusing to feel relief, in which case they suck

 :lol:

Portia you are so loveable!

 :D

Hops
Title: Re: Anything
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