Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Twoapenny on June 23, 2017, 07:00:01 AM

Title: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on June 23, 2017, 07:00:01 AM
Hi everybody,

I decided to start a new thread for this as it's very specific and it's what I have come to see is a big hurdle and stumbling block for me.  In my other thread I brought up a little while ago the idea of getting away from my to do list and not living my life by it.  What that's brought up is this huge fear of me not being in control, particularly in relation to my son.  The idea of 'other' people being involved literally terrifies me - understandably so, given the very real things that have happened in the past. But - I can't live my life like this.  I'm not just exhausted, stressed and worn out, I'm bored and lethargic and I have no lust for life anymore because I don't do anything I want to do and I can't do anything I want to do unless I get other people involved in looking after my son on a regular basis, not just a favour every now and again.  I'm so unused to doing anything for myself now I don't even know what I want to do, should the opportunity arise and I can see that - a - it's not healthy, for me or for him and b, I think I'm at the stage where I need to do it now, otherwise I might not be able to in the future.  It scares me so much, but it's at a very deep, primal level.  Intellectually I can categorise and be sensible and acknowledge that situations change and people are different and all the rest of it but inside I feel terrified at what harm others might bestow upon him.  I love him so much and I so desperately want him to have a life that's nothing like mine, that isn't filled with scary people who hurt you and take what they can before they chuck you to one side but there are people like that in the world and him coming into contact with them really frightens me.  But I can't do it all on my own and I am aware that there are good people out there, I just don't seem to be very good at finding them!

So.  Two things have become apparent, and quite why they've become apparent now I don't know, but they have.  One is that I have got to start scheduling in two days off a week, just two days where I have nothing arranged or important to do.  I haven't been able to do that for years but I can now, so I need to do that.  I also think I ought to arrange some sort of 'nice' evening prior to the two days off so that there's something a little bit different going on.

But more importantly than that, I do need to get the ball rolling on my son's college placement.  I have been putting it off until I can sort out all of the paperwork - the mass of child abuse allegations from when he was little and writing up my notes on the ten years that I've been home educating him.  Obviously it's a huge amount of work and it's one of those sort of never ending jobs, there's always another avenue that can be explored, exploited, used against me and so on.  What I've decided I need to do - eek! - is contact the local group that can help with the application and let them take the lead and see where it gets me.  It might mean I'm accused of child abuse again.  That really frightens me.  Worst case scenario I could lose him, and that does happen in this country, people with disabilities are removed from the family home, often over disagreements about what the best way to care for them is. The local authority could say my teaching has been the problem and refuse to help him with specialist provision, arguing that he'd be fine in a mainstream college (this is another common argument and one that was used against me when he was little).  The public sector, even without specific problems, is inefficient, ineffective and stressful to deal with, so even if nothing major happens it will still be a pain to deal with all of that.  I could put a lot of time in only for them to refuse to help him anyway, or to have them want to send him to a college fifty miles away.  Or it could go through reasonably okay, they could say yes to helping him and he could get into a decent enough college within a reasonable traveling distance.  I don't cope well with all the myriad possibilities and worrying about what I might have to cope with.  But it is this that I need to get over and get on with, so I'm going to email them today and ask for a meeting.

Sorry, this is already really long!  I am aware that this is going to completely freak me out, trigger loads of stuff off and have me running for all sorts of coping strategies that aren't healthy for me.  But I feel like I need to do it now.  So what I wanted to do was write stuff up here as I go through the process and I would be so very grateful if all of you, with your wise, warrior heads that you all have, could give me a poke in the right direction when I need it and tell me those things that I don't want to hear (which I know I'm very resistant to) and just generally be my wing men (or women, I should say!  Wing persons doesn't have the same ring to it).  I'm really frightened.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on June 23, 2017, 11:12:39 AM
A big YES to this!

Quote
contact the local group that can help with the application and let them take the lead and see where it gets me.

I favor the simple, leap-of-faith honest statement:

"I am overwhelmed by this application process. I've been taking care of him completely on my own for a very long time due to some toxic family stuff. Can you help me help him?"

(And I know how hard a leap of faith is for the formerly abused. Still, I think it's time.)

Hugs to you,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on June 23, 2017, 12:40:24 PM
A big YES to this!

Quote
contact the local group that can help with the application and let them take the lead and see where it gets me.

I favor the simple, leap-of-faith honest statement:

"I am overwhelmed by this application process. I've been taking care of him completely on my own for a very long time due to some toxic family stuff. Can you help me help him?"

(And I know how hard a leap of faith is for the formerly abused. Still, I think it's time.)

Hugs to you,
Hops

Thanks, Hopsie :)  I've drafted the email and yes, it's along the lines of, can you help me with this, we've had problems with a family abuse situation and I would appreciate some help in moving this forward in a way that helps my son.  So scared I feel physically sick but it really is time and I think if I don't go for it now I might not have the strength in a few more years time.  Partly a mid-life thing maybe, as in I don't want to take all the fear of my earlier life with my into my middle and later life.  Also what you wrote about your elderlies you look after; sooner or later we all have to slow down a bit, I think, and I don't want to be sitting in my armchair wondering if my life could have been different if I'd taken the plunge.  Anyway, I will keep you updated with news as it comes in :) x Good or bad! x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on June 23, 2017, 04:03:52 PM
Just one thought in a rush: will using the word "abuse" right off the bat trigger anything?
IOW, will they instantly go look up reports, etc. if you use that word? Would it matter?

Just wondering if you want to lead with it that directly, or indicate serious issues with another word.

I dunno either way, just occurred to me.

Look forward to the updates, Tupp!

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on June 23, 2017, 08:53:29 PM
Ultimately, you make the final decisions right?

So: TRUST YOURSELF.

You've already navigated a byzantine maze of "officialdom" - this will pale in comparison and you'll find people aren't as suspicious and accusatory and judgemental of you this go round.

BREATHE.

It's going to be OK, it'll be all right. Really it will.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on June 24, 2017, 12:07:21 PM
Skep, thank you, yes, trying to breathe and trust, that's the tricky bit isn't it? Lol, I'm sure to many it's the easy bit.

In theory, yes, I have the final decision.  The potentially scary bit is what echoes from what happened when he was younger.  If 'the State' decide you aren't doing a good enough job then they can step in with court and/or care orders and effectively make decisions on your child's behalf without your agreement, or take them away from you and place them into residential care.  For people with learning difficulties, that's a life long possibility because people without sufficient mental capacity are considered vulnerable (and rightly so) and therefore the state will step in and take over where it's deemed necessary.

There are, of course, all sorts of laws and pieces of legislation in place in relation to things like that and numerous people that would need to get involved and all sorts of procedures to follow.  What happened during my mum's six year malicious allegation spree was that numerous 'professionals' didn't follow procedure and some (doctor, social worker, police officer to name a few) actively fabricated reports and hid evidence that worked in my favour in order to bring a case against me.  Sounds crazy, I know, but I have a 200 page document I worked on over the years to prove that's what happened.  I found all sorts of contradictions and discrepancies in official records, ordered duplicate sets of notes where I discovered that information from one file had been omitted from another (in order to make it appear that I hadn't attended certain appointments or submitted certain pieces of paperwork), conversations had been fabricated (I was able to prove from phone records that a call a social worker claimed I made had never actually happened as I wasn't even in the area at the time) and all sorts of awful, malicious hideousness, all instigated and fueled by my mum but none of it would have happened if the professionals involved had (a) followed procedure and (b) just been honest human beings and not arseholes :)

I do know that logically the chances of all that happening again are slim, and being as aware of it as I am now I do realise it's a very slim possibility and one I can fight.  But that's the fear and the bit I'm trying to get past.  I can really see what a big stumbling block it is now and I need to get past it.  So yes, deep breaths and really trying to rein in the fear and come from a place of calmness and sense rather than letting the fear rule me.  I think there will be so much deep breathing going on that my lungs will be like bellows lol xx

Hopsie, I've been thinking about how to word it and how much info to put in from the beginning.  The previous abuse allegations will all come out at some point during the process because it's all there in his history and that will be reviewed as part of the assessment anyway.  There is also a part of the assessment where you can insert information about child protection concerns and as far as I'm concerned he is at risk from my mum and I want what she has done/does written up there so that it's much harder for her to do this again.  So far I've just drafted an email, not too long, and basically I've explained that there is an ongoing family abuse issue, essentially taking the form of my mother making malicious allegations in regard to myself and my son.  I've briefly explained that it's caused huge problems for both myself and my son and left me very reluctant to engage with public sector services, so I'd really appreciate some help in working through that in order to have the assessments carried out and ensure my son is protected from her whilst also obtaining the support that he needs.  I'm paraphrasing, but something along those lines.  I've mentioned I have the 200 page doc that I've just mentioned to Skep but that obviously 200 pages is a bit of a read so I'd appreciate some help in knowing what sort of information I need to submit.  I've said the same re the fact he's been home educated and basically asked for some guidance on what sort of info is necessary and what isn't.

Basically this agency are a sort of buffer between the family and the local authority, they're supposed to help the family through the process and I guess make it easier for the local authority so that they get the right information and any queries dealt with somewhere else.  I've spoken to a couple of other families who've done it this way and they've found it very helpful. So - I was thinking I wanted to call it abuse because that's what it is and that if I refer to it as something else it might be downplayed as a bit of a falling out or a misunderstanding (which is what many people have seen it as in the past).  So I thought just to describe it plainly, in the way that I see it and then the scary bit is letting go of the outcome and just dealing with what happens next.  What do you think? xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on June 24, 2017, 03:01:27 PM
With no expertise in this, I'm just doing my always-imagine-impact-on-the-reader you need to reach, I think this part is concise, mature-sounding, and to the point:

Quote
an email, not too long, and basically I've explained that there is an ongoing family abuse issue, essentially taking the form of my mother making malicious allegations in regard to myself and my son.  I've briefly explained that it's caused huge problems for both myself and my son and left me very reluctant to engage with public sector services, so I'd really appreciate some help in working through that in order to have the assessments carried out and ensure my son is protected

If this is your first inquiry to that agency, I wonder if not referring to a "200-page document" (these are no doubt overworked, well-meaning staff) but instead to "comprehensive documentation" or something similar.

What I'm not quite clear on is whether there was a final adjudication of the whole earlier matter. You DO have full legal custody of your son and have maintained NC with your mother and stepfather. However, you have courteous LC with your sister (which might be viewed positively). So you're not "hiding" your son from all relatives...you just removed yourself from interference from your mother.

I think what you say above is perfect, reasonable, and sounds like a responsible parent who really cares. I never did understand what "abuse" your mother accused you of in the first place, but the fact that she remains married to a stepfather who abused you speaks volumes. And I'm pretty sure you could also tell them that.

Is this any help? I know it's been a very complex thing to explain and summarize.

love,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on June 24, 2017, 03:22:39 PM
PS--with NC with your parents, is "ongoing" abuse actually correct? Will the reader instantly go looking for current restraining orders or active investigations? (I understand they'll see legal trails in the course of it.) Or do you mean it's just ongoing in the sense that you maintain NC?

If the latter, I wouldn't say "ongoing."

You don't want your present need to sound SO complicated and overwhelming that the reader might feel, we simply don't know how to manage this request. (Because likely, they know just what to do for you.) Or, we dread trying to help this family. Just never forget whoever reads your request is a person who has a daily purpose--the mission to help you and your son secure his future.

You are reasonable. You are sane and rational, with only your son's best interests in mind. If you can report what's essential in clear terms, but not re-state every single minor example of how The System Let Me Down, they may be more inclined to work hard in your behalf, imo. It's just a human response. (And I'd encourage you to have a sit-down meeting with them as soon as possible, because emails can be misinterpreted and human connection can make a big difference as you go.)

(The reader is probably a bureaucrat within the system too. You want to present them a request that's entirely within the scope of what they do, but not have them think...oh lord, here's a ticking bomb we'll have to tiptoe around. Keep it as simple and as PRESENT focused as you can.)

Approaching them with good faith (rather than prejudging them all as enemies to fear) is really very important, imo. So perhaps "I've had some fear of public services because of family abuse of the system in the past but I am so grateful for the work you do" may be the more effective attitude to take.

You can do this. Bellows-away. Stay in the present and only haul along as much of the past as is strictly necessary. They will be glad to help you in an efficient way (but don't look to this experience to "heal" the past one.)

xo
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on June 24, 2017, 04:09:08 PM
Yes, that does help, Hops, thank you, I will keep thinking it over and re-wording it over the weekend.

Essentially my mum's claims were that I was mentally ill and I neglected and abused my son to such an extent that he developed developmental problems - ie, he wasn't really disabled, it was me that was the problem.  She presented it as fact, to different agencies over time, and changed the story each time when the previous agency didn't do enough for her liking.  So for example, the first occasion I'm aware of (and I'm very aware there may be more I don't know; I haven't been able to get hold of every set of records and some sets are so heavily redacted that I'm aware contact was made by 'someone' but I've no idea what was said) she claimed I was at risk or relapsing (I'd experienced depression after my son was born) and that I wouldn't be able to call for help and that placed my son at risk.  I didn't know she'd done that until about six or seven years after the event but suddenly a very odd conversation I'd had with a social worker years earlier made sense, as she'd asked me to talk her through exactly what I'd do if I felt depressed again and who I would contact, and asked if I had a back up plan if I couldn't make contact with anyone.  It was odd at the time but I brushed it off, and it was only when I found out what she'd been told by my mum that things made sense.  And basically that was how it went on, the next contact she made was with a different medical team (we'd just moved house) so she told them that it had been established that there was nothing wrong with my son, it was my neglectful parenting, all fabricated and easily checked with the previous team (who had all been heavily involved because I'd been depressed and had written numerous reports saying I was a good mum, my son was well looked after etc etc) and when I found out about that the odd behaviour of the health visitor suddenly made sense and so it went on over the years.  Each time she added more details to make me sound more unstable; she wrote to a consultant with her concerns about my erratic lifestyle claiming she believed me to be living with friends but no-one was too sure where when I was actually living in a flat she'd paid the deposit on and signed as guarantor for.  The information she gave social services (which was when the child protection stuff actually kicked in and they were threatening all sorts of things) was so bad you wouldn't have let me look after a cat, let alone a child.  I fought that one, proved it was all fabricated and in the course of that found out she'd forged my signature on a bank document to draw money out of my son's account.  She wasn't successful because I'd moved the money anyway but I did report her to the police that time and subsequently discovered that she told them I have schizophrenia and can't be trusted with my son's money, whilst still claiming he wasn't really disabled (he'd been diagnosed for several years at this point), again they just accepted everything she told them when a phone call to our doctor would have confirmed that it was all fabricated.  And she just carried on like that, I think there are nine separate incidents that I'm aware of and was able to prove were fabricated, there were a couple of others that I would lay my last penny were her but there's no proof and as I say there could be more in records I haven't been able to get copies of.

Phew!  Just writing that down has brought me out into a cold sweat.  So - there was no final adjudication, there's just a stream of documents over a long period (six to seven years, maybe a bit longer), all of which I had to fight myself and I did prove everything was fabricated, complaints were upheld, records were amended and so on.  Which is why I'm nervous about stoking the hornet's nest, because this could all blow up in my face again.  Hopefully it won't, but there's only one way to find out now.

I will look at re-drafting the email again; I see the abuse as ongoing because it continues to be a risk, from my point of view, and I feel once my son is in a public establishment again there will be an opportunity for her to make an anonymous call either to the college or social services but I see what you mean about that making it sound that it still happens regularly (although maybe it does and I just don't know!).  So I can see how changing that wording would help, and the same with not scaring them with the 200 page document.  So perhaps tomorrow I should redraft and really simplify it to its most basic aspects and just mention there were child protection allegations when he was younger and that he is now home educated.  I will sleep on it tonight and start trimming it down again tomorrow.

Thank you for your help, it is very much appreciated :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on June 24, 2017, 04:19:07 PM
WOW.

Jesus. You are something amazing, Tupp.

Here's what I hear:
She LIED. She committed FRAUD (the stealing attempt). And medical diagnoses and RECORDS disprove all of her insane vindictive bullshit. Nobody with a grain of sense will be fooled.

I'm not worried about you any more. (I know, sounds too easy, but there it is.) The reason is that you have been smarter, saner, more mature than this hideous person Every Single Step of the Way.

Go forth without fear, Tupp!

I now, truly, and totally, know that this is going to be okay.

love to you,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on June 24, 2017, 04:30:05 PM
WOW.

Jesus. You are something amazing, Tupp.

Here's what I hear:
She LIED. She committed FRAUD (the stealing attempt). And medical diagnoses and RECORDS disprove all of her insane vindictive bullshit. Nobody with a grain of sense will be fooled.

I'm not worried about you any more. (I know, sounds too easy, but there it is.) The reason is that you have been smarter, saner, more mature than this hideous person Every Single Step of the Way.

Go forth without fear, Tupp!

I now, truly, and totally, know that this is going to be okay.

love to you,
Hops

Aw Hops, thank you, it's good to hear someone else say it was all bad, even writing it down tonight I find myself thinking I sound like I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill so it's good to know that someone else thinks it's not okay!  I've redrafted again and basically deleted most of it and just said that I'd appreciate some help with the application, he's been home educated so I'd like some advice on what sort of educational information I need to include and then I've written that there were some (unfounded) child protection allegations when he was younger and do I need to provide information about this as part of the application process?  I'll look at it again tomorrow and then put it on here, I think, but yes, I think you're right, keep it simple, it might even be more simple than I think?  They may not even want to know about the earlier abuse allegations as they were shown to be unfounded so maybe we won't even need to do anything about them?  That would be very nice.  It would be great to finally draw a line under this and not be worried about it constantly.

Thank you again for your help, I will look at it again tomorrow :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on June 24, 2017, 06:13:16 PM
Dear Tupps. The past is all water over the dam now. Yes, it makes sense that you're afraid. Of course you are dear. That was horrendously ugly of your mother - AND she brought the force the State against you. Good lord. But that doesn't change the fact, that that was then and this now - and you of course have grown and healed much.

I second all of Hops' writing advice; it's sound. Just giving them the pertinant facts of what you're seeking for your son's situation makes total sense. For now. You may NOT have to present any of the reasons for why/how to you got to now at all. You'll know of course.

As for protecting your son going forward, just ask questions IN PERSON when you get further along in the process. You don't have to volunteer any info, until you're asked. And then I would address it in as dry and an an old history way, as possible. Right now, your inquiry is only about - can we have your help for this purpose? Stick to JUST THAT and you'll start the process. IMO, you don't even need to explain why you think you need their help just yet.

Yeah, I have the same sort of stuff in my head when I'm trying to do something new. I have to remind myself: look at what you have DONE, and how that went. Most of the time it went pretty well. There really isn't any rational justification for beating myself up because of the nasty voice in my head that spews the old abuse - except that I fear ever having to hear it again, in person. I'd really like not having to hear it in my head at ALL, too. But, some things take longer to change. Sometimes, I can take that voice & cuss it out good, shake it, and make it go away. Not all the time - and the dang thing is persistent.

But you know - I didn't deserve having that crap inserted into my head in the first place. And neither do you. It doesn't make you a bad person to tell it to get lost, it has no idea what it's talking about. You won't instantly turn into a frog or something more horrible. It just wants you to think that might happen.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on June 24, 2017, 06:22:00 PM
Outstanding!

I wonder...do you even need to bring up the unfounded allegations in your very first contact? Or could you ask about making a face-to-face appointment? And then when you actually meet, you could say, again fairly briefly...that there was part of a family harrassment issue in the past. (Now mostly irrelevant as you've had no contact with them for X amount of time).

I just don't want you to be so stimulated by the past abuse that you "lead with it", if that makes sense.

IOW, you're introducing yourself. Hello, I'm Tupp, loving mother of Adored Son With Disability. I'm needing to plan a situation that will be right for him as he gets older, and need your help.

Right?

Alternatively, you might (ignore this if I'm exaggerating) be saying: Hello, I'm Tupp, Wounded and Triggered Survivor of Abuse and Family Manipulation of the System You're Part Of So I'm Terrified Of You and Partly Paranoid, and would like you to get involved?

KWIM? No reason you need to HIDE anything about what happened those years back. You have nothing to apologize for and don't need to overprotect these folks. But also there's no reason that old identity has to precede you on a sign down the sidewalk. You are FIRST: Tupp, responsible and loving mother of a Beloved Son with serious medical issues, who needs this organization's assistance. You are SECONDLY all the other.

(And I totally agree with Amber's pragmatic advice:
"As for protecting your son going forward, just ask questions IN PERSON when you get further along in the process. You don't have to volunteer any info, until you're asked. And then I would address it in as dry and an an old history way, as possible. Right now, your inquiry is only about - can we have your help for this purpose? Stick to JUST THAT and you'll start the process.")

love
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on June 24, 2017, 11:06:24 PM
One more question if you don't mind explaining it...what exactly does "college placement" mean in your son's situation?

Is it a "college" like we call it here in the U.S.? A four-year higher education thing?

Or do you mean a group home or residential school for people with disabilities?

Is it education focused? Living support based?

I've never quite understood the term.

xo
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on June 25, 2017, 07:14:05 AM
Thanks for the word help, Hops. If I ever decide to write seriously, wanna be an editor?? LOL.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on June 25, 2017, 03:34:13 PM
Flattered by the question, Amber. But I wrote/edited my guts out at a pretty high level for others throughout my career and I've pretty much "taken my writing back" these days. (Or won't edit another's book unless I charge them a Very Mature Editor rate. The kind you need to be sitting down for. Still interested, give a holler!)

I felt the import for Tupp's life of what she's been crafting, glad I could wordsmith that a little though!

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Garbanzo on June 27, 2017, 12:23:21 AM
Wanted you to know that I read your post. Often I don't have much to say or advice as it's not my strong point.

Only things I can think of are random thoughts. When I was a student there are due dates constantly for progress so I could see how parents also have to do-lists as it's a way teachers keep kids in progress and parents follow along with it. If you are home schooling you would have to-dos.

Currently my job doesn't require me to have due dates. Everything is more or less ASAP and immediately.

For my personal life I make little monthly or weekly do do lists on my laptop but I rarely re-visit them. If I look back on them they either remind me that I have been avoiding some important things OR I made notes of a lot of minutia that don't really matter that much. The important things that I avoid have webs and constellations of REAL anxiety connected to them.> AKA "If I don't do this right I am going to create terrible consequences so it may be better if I don't do it right now"

Sometimes planning out minutia is still helpful in making a day go smoother

Perhaps you can still have to do lists but just be a little more relaxed with them.

This post you made sounded more like it wasn't about your to do list but was more about your "I must do this myself list".

Maybe you could make a "I don't really have to do this myself list". You could make it for the heck of it. I think you have already considered that though. Probably the fear is everything is going to unravel if you don't do it yourself.

I guess we can go through our worst case scenarios. Now that I think about this it's really dumb that I have been avoiding making a certain doc appointment as the consequence can only get worse the more I avoid it.

I don't know.

In the end I think you probably just have an exhausting situation. Lots of serious planning for serious things.

I like to force myself to go to art museums. I have to plan like a week ahead to tell myself I must do it. So by planning a simple thing in advance I give myself a lot of mental prep, I don't stay up late the night before etc because I know I am going to get up early and go. It seems stupid to do it, frivolous. If I haven't been doing it for a while I even think I don't enjoy it anymore. That isn't true though, it's like I just forget what it feels like to enjoy it, or I get out of the habit. But honestly sometimes other things in life do take priority. 

Sometimes we just need to show up somewhere and spend a couple of hours doing "nothing" at a destination we jive with.

Even if no big results come out of it, it improves our quality of life. Even if we are not studying to become famous concert pianists or olympic competitors or whatever high falutin achievements and goals and rewards are out there. I often think I am too old to become anything significant, that things really don't matter anymore at my age, my opportunities have past. Me and two other coworkers were talking about this the other day. I'm not sure if this is relevant to you at all. Who knows. Sometimes I think there is like a whole grief about "What may have been", "Who I may have become", "What would I be doing now if life had gone more auspiciously" or whatever. I used to want art to be a part of my life in a more serious way. I have to kind of accept that I'm not going to be an artist of any significance (honestly there was some major youthful ego in that). To enjoy it I have to let go of stipulations and requirements and memories.

We all struggle with the cliche of living in the moment instead of planning for progression into the future forever. There is always the next task, the next to do. It's like a never ending part of life.

I'm personally afraid of making any big plans. Changing my job anything. I just want to be safe. Safe in the status quo. Honestly it's legit for me. I hate a world that changes all the time everything has to be bigger and better. People are always running to the next big deal. I just wish I could find a peaceful modest safe path. Maybe we really are always in the rat race if we like it or not. 

I never feel like putting a dress on when I wake up to go to work. I FEEL like throwing on a t-shirt and pants everyday. It's really not harder to wear a dress and by the time I get to work I feel a tiny bit better about myself for putting in a little bit of effort. There was really no time effort involved it was some sort of emotional effort.

I wonder if sorting out the difference between time effort and emotional effort is at all useful? Maybe you really DO have to put a lot of time effort into something. I think you have though. It seems like I have read in the past you did consider time versus emotional effort involved it tasks.

You have probably considered all of this over extensively since you are a planner. It's probably just powerful fear that is in there and we have to respect our fears, they are coming from somewhere and I personally think fear is often self protection.

Anyhow. Extremely random thoughts. If they aren't relevant just disregard.

 :P
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on June 27, 2017, 07:18:37 AM
One more question if you don't mind explaining it...what exactly does "college placement" mean in your son's situation?

Is it a "college" like we call it here in the U.S.? A four-year higher education thing?

Or do you mean a group home or residential school for people with disabilities?

Is it education focused? Living support based?

I've never quite understood the term.

xo
Hops

Hi Hops,

Sorry, I'm replying in a bit of a back to front order here!  Much to tell :)

Basically 'college' in the UK is a fairly fluid term and can mean all of the things you mention above.  In my son's case, initially I'm assuming our easiest option is the local special needs college where he can go from age 16 to age 18 and it's basically an extension of school but with more living skills added to it (going to the supermarket, using the bus, managing money, that sort of thing) and obviously all adapted to suit his ability level.

People with learning difficulties in the UK can stay in education until they're 25 in theory, but it isn't well funded.  We have so much support on paper but very little is actually available because the government don't provide the money needed to put the facilities in place.  Hence the endless battles that parents have to get their children the help that they need.  Anyway, there is an amazing college about an hour and a half away from here where they have a full medical team and a wide range of courses covering all sorts of topics and skills.  They also run a number of actual businesses from the college - a cafe, a T shirt printing shop, a graphic design facility and so on - which means students can do an actual job and get proper work experience.  They can go as day students or residential so I think that would be perfect for my son as he could start as a day student and then progress to residential as time goes on.  From there it would then be a transfer into some sort of supported living arrangement.  So my thinking at the minute is to see the next couple of years at the local college as a stepping stone to the other college that I think would really be wonderful for him :) x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on June 27, 2017, 07:29:12 AM
Outstanding!

I wonder...do you even need to bring up the unfounded allegations in your very first contact? Or could you ask about making a face-to-face appointment? And then when you actually meet, you could say, again fairly briefly...that there was part of a family harrassment issue in the past. (Now mostly irrelevant as you've had no contact with them for X amount of time).

I just don't want you to be so stimulated by the past abuse that you "lead with it", if that makes sense.

IOW, you're introducing yourself. Hello, I'm Tupp, loving mother of Adored Son With Disability. I'm needing to plan a situation that will be right for him as he gets older, and need your help.

Right?

Alternatively, you might (ignore this if I'm exaggerating) be saying: Hello, I'm Tupp, Wounded and Triggered Survivor of Abuse and Family Manipulation of the System You're Part Of So I'm Terrified Of You and Partly Paranoid, and would like you to get involved?

KWIM? No reason you need to HIDE anything about what happened those years back. You have nothing to apologize for and don't need to overprotect these folks. But also there's no reason that old identity has to precede you on a sign down the sidewalk. You are FIRST: Tupp, responsible and loving mother of a Beloved Son with serious medical issues, who needs this organization's assistance. You are SECONDLY all the other.

(And I totally agree with Amber's pragmatic advice:
"As for protecting your son going forward, just ask questions IN PERSON when you get further along in the process. You don't have to volunteer any info, until you're asked. And then I would address it in as dry and an an old history way, as possible. Right now, your inquiry is only about - can we have your help for this purpose? Stick to JUST THAT and you'll start the process.")

love
Hops

To Hops and Skep (I'm aware I'm jumbling up replies here!),

Thank you so much for your input with this, you really helped me to have a light bulb moment over the weekend and this now feels like a huge turning point for me.  I did realise how utterly terrified I have been for the last ten years and how everything I've done with regards to my son has all been about making sure there's no way anyone could get to us again.  It's the reason I haven't gone back to work, it's why I've struggled to make friends, it's why I haven't dated or given myself time off, or bought any nice clothes, got my hair done or any of those nice things (it's partly money as well but even on a tight budget there's enough for a new T shirt or a pretty hair slide every now and again).

And it was so weird that I kind of knew how badly all the abuse allegations had affected me but I didn't really know.  I sat down and worked out all the time off I've missed out on over the last fifteen years as I've not had anyone to look after him.  I worked out fifteen years worth of weekends and fifteen years worth of holiday and I'm owed over 1900 days off :)  It was such a revelation to me, I feel so ill and tired all the time, I don't enjoy myself, I feel guilty if I even buy a sandwich when we're out instead of making my own and I've always felt I just needed to try harder, improve my diet, work more efficiently and so on, and then I'd cope.  Working those days out made me realise that my health problems are nothing more than me forcing myself to be this superhuman person who can never be blamed again, and as soon as I realised that I also realised I don't need to do it anymore.  How amazing is that?

I've gone through my diary and blocked out two days each week as days off.  Then I've awarded myself two days holiday a month and a week in the summer, which basically means I can have a long weekend every four weeks and then a proper week away come August.  I've had the last four days off and obviously I still did things (my son doesn't miraculously stop being disabled just because I've decided I want a break) but the difference in how I feel is amazing.  On top of that two friends got in touch over the weekend and they're coming up to visit and for once I don't feel guilty that they are driving to me rather than me driving to them.  It's been such a revelation and I can't thank you enough :)

Anyway, with all of that in mind I have redrafted the email for the fiftieth time and now I'm thinking of just keeping it so simple and saying I'd like some help with the application due to him being home educated and when would be a good time to get together?  And then I'll deal with the abuse stuff if/when it comes up.  It suddenly doesn't feel so scary any more.  What do you think? x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on June 27, 2017, 09:56:48 AM
((((Tupp))))
What an incredible week you've been having!  I'm so excited for you.

  In some ways it's like you're sheltering in place, because that was your reality for so many years.  It's difficult to know when  the bombs  stop falling.  It's hard to trust you're safe, when so many times you weren't, but hoped otherwise.

It's a bit like rediscovering the sun on your face.... It's a process to accept.... and realize it's just THE the sun.....not exposure to risk and  bombs bc they've been falling fir 10 years without fail. 

You really can poke your head out......and be safe in the sun.  It's just the sun,  yours to enjoy with your son again.  Maybe fir the first time with your son.

 That looks dramatic to read, but I know it feels real to you, bc it was the (improbable) truth.

You're discovering your landscape has altered....again, and that you can trust it's real. 

Grieve the time spent under siege, but with your face turned to the sun.  You have to Mourne, to finish this. ...but always turn back where you are now.  You're safe, you have options, and you're able to move on now.  Really feel that and sit with it.  Feel it in your chest and notice what that's like.

I'm so glad for you, Tupp.
Lighter




Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: JustKathy on June 27, 2017, 02:44:16 PM
Quote
Wanted you to know that I read your post. Often I don't have much to say or advice as it's not my strong point.

Seconding what Garbanzo said. I've also been reading, but am not very good with advice in this department, not having children of my own. I just don't understand the process.

BUT ... the very first reply by Hops about "leap-of-faith honesty" is something I really believe in. In this case I also think it's perfectly okay to admit to being overwhelmed by the process.

This is a pretty long thread, and I've really just skimmed through it, but again, Hops has given some excellent advice with regard to editing and word choices.

Sorry about writing a half-assed reply, but I wanted you to know that I'm here and reading as much as I can in the limited time I have. I know it can be hard to start a thread, see alot of views, but not receive a lot of replies, so I'm just waving hello here and letting you know I'm in your corner.

Hugs,
Kathy
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on June 28, 2017, 04:49:20 AM
Dear Tupps. The past is all water over the dam now. Yes, it makes sense that you're afraid. Of course you are dear. That was horrendously ugly of your mother - AND she brought the force the State against you. Good lord. But that doesn't change the fact, that that was then and this now - and you of course have grown and healed much.

I second all of Hops' writing advice; it's sound. Just giving them the pertinant facts of what you're seeking for your son's situation makes total sense. For now. You may NOT have to present any of the reasons for why/how to you got to now at all. You'll know of course.

As for protecting your son going forward, just ask questions IN PERSON when you get further along in the process. You don't have to volunteer any info, until you're asked. And then I would address it in as dry and an an old history way, as possible. Right now, your inquiry is only about - can we have your help for this purpose? Stick to JUST THAT and you'll start the process. IMO, you don't even need to explain why you think you need their help just yet.

Yeah, I have the same sort of stuff in my head when I'm trying to do something new. I have to remind myself: look at what you have DONE, and how that went. Most of the time it went pretty well. There really isn't any rational justification for beating myself up because of the nasty voice in my head that spews the old abuse - except that I fear ever having to hear it again, in person. I'd really like not having to hear it in my head at ALL, too. But, some things take longer to change. Sometimes, I can take that voice & cuss it out good, shake it, and make it go away. Not all the time - and the dang thing is persistent.

But you know - I didn't deserve having that crap inserted into my head in the first place. And neither do you. It doesn't make you a bad person to tell it to get lost, it has no idea what it's talking about. You won't instantly turn into a frog or something more horrible. It just wants you to think that might happen.

Skep, thank you, that's very helpful.  It got me thinking; what was so difficult about dealing with the previous situations was that I walked into them AFTER my mum had been at them.  So people already had a preconceived idea about me (and my son) and it's interesting how people don't generally like to change their opinion after it's been formed (myself included!).  Despite having no evidence to support her claims and despite my presentation and behaviour being nothing like what I imagine they expected, numerous professionals still went along the path my mum had cleared for them, even as far as disregarding or destroying evidence that didn't fit the picture (and by that, I mean evidence that supported me).  And all of that made me realise that that is why I feel like I have to announce myself and present my case, as it were, before I even meet someone.  And of course I don't now, as you rightly point out.  It's so funny how I feel different to the way I may come across.  On paper, I read as Tupp, loving parent of disabled child with complex needs, qualified teacher who has provided a decade of one to one tuition to her son and is now seeking help with the transition to college.  If my mum got in there first (she won't, but just if), I would be Tupp, mentally disturbed single parent who is good at covering her mental health problems and manipulating people, single parent of a child who has been badly damaged by her mental health issues and kept away from the people who love him with a long history of child protection concerns.  As myself, at the moment I feel like Tupp, badly behaved teenager who is about to displease mother and step-father again and who knows what they'll unleash when they find out, so desperately trying to find people to keep onside in order to protect from forth coming attack.  Isn't perception funny?  Same person, same situation, yet such different perspectives.  What I need to work on is bringing the frightened teenager together with the responsible, professionally qualified adult so that the grown up takes precedence and moves the process forward.

Thank you for your thoughts and words, it has helped a lot x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on June 28, 2017, 06:05:46 AM
Wanted you to know that I read your post. Often I don't have much to say or advice as it's not my strong point.

Only things I can think of are random thoughts. When I was a student there are due dates constantly for progress so I could see how parents also have to do-lists as it's a way teachers keep kids in progress and parents follow along with it. If you are home schooling you would have to-dos.

Currently my job doesn't require me to have due dates. Everything is more or less ASAP and immediately.

For my personal life I make little monthly or weekly do do lists on my laptop but I rarely re-visit them. If I look back on them they either remind me that I have been avoiding some important things OR I made notes of a lot of minutia that don't really matter that much. The important things that I avoid have webs and constellations of REAL anxiety connected to them.> AKA "If I don't do this right I am going to create terrible consequences so it may be better if I don't do it right now"

Sometimes planning out minutia is still helpful in making a day go smoother

Perhaps you can still have to do lists but just be a little more relaxed with them.

This post you made sounded more like it wasn't about your to do list but was more about your "I must do this myself list".

Maybe you could make a "I don't really have to do this myself list". You could make it for the heck of it. I think you have already considered that though. Probably the fear is everything is going to unravel if you don't do it yourself.

I guess we can go through our worst case scenarios. Now that I think about this it's really dumb that I have been avoiding making a certain doc appointment as the consequence can only get worse the more I avoid it.

I don't know.

In the end I think you probably just have an exhausting situation. Lots of serious planning for serious things.

I like to force myself to go to art museums. I have to plan like a week ahead to tell myself I must do it. So by planning a simple thing in advance I give myself a lot of mental prep, I don't stay up late the night before etc because I know I am going to get up early and go. It seems stupid to do it, frivolous. If I haven't been doing it for a while I even think I don't enjoy it anymore. That isn't true though, it's like I just forget what it feels like to enjoy it, or I get out of the habit. But honestly sometimes other things in life do take priority. 

Sometimes we just need to show up somewhere and spend a couple of hours doing "nothing" at a destination we jive with.

Even if no big results come out of it, it improves our quality of life. Even if we are not studying to become famous concert pianists or olympic competitors or whatever high falutin achievements and goals and rewards are out there. I often think I am too old to become anything significant, that things really don't matter anymore at my age, my opportunities have past. Me and two other coworkers were talking about this the other day. I'm not sure if this is relevant to you at all. Who knows. Sometimes I think there is like a whole grief about "What may have been", "Who I may have become", "What would I be doing now if life had gone more auspiciously" or whatever. I used to want art to be a part of my life in a more serious way. I have to kind of accept that I'm not going to be an artist of any significance (honestly there was some major youthful ego in that). To enjoy it I have to let go of stipulations and requirements and memories.

We all struggle with the cliche of living in the moment instead of planning for progression into the future forever. There is always the next task, the next to do. It's like a never ending part of life.

I'm personally afraid of making any big plans. Changing my job anything. I just want to be safe. Safe in the status quo. Honestly it's legit for me. I hate a world that changes all the time everything has to be bigger and better. People are always running to the next big deal. I just wish I could find a peaceful modest safe path. Maybe we really are always in the rat race if we like it or not. 

I never feel like putting a dress on when I wake up to go to work. I FEEL like throwing on a t-shirt and pants everyday. It's really not harder to wear a dress and by the time I get to work I feel a tiny bit better about myself for putting in a little bit of effort. There was really no time effort involved it was some sort of emotional effort.

I wonder if sorting out the difference between time effort and emotional effort is at all useful? Maybe you really DO have to put a lot of time effort into something. I think you have though. It seems like I have read in the past you did consider time versus emotional effort involved it tasks.

You have probably considered all of this over extensively since you are a planner. It's probably just powerful fear that is in there and we have to respect our fears, they are coming from somewhere and I personally think fear is often self protection.

Anyhow. Extremely random thoughts. If they aren't relevant just disregard.

 :P

G, it's always nice when you post, thank you :) It is difficult to find the balance, isn't it, between planning (which is necessary in a lot of things), procrastinating (which I do a lot of) and just getting on with something because it feels nice.  Responsibility versus enjoyment, or something like that, I suppose.  It's a balancing act, definitely.

I love your idea of an "I don't really need to do this myself" list.  I do almost everything myself.  I always feel I have to do things myself.  Asking for help feels like weakness to me, it makes me vulnerable to attack, criticism, judgement and so on.  I have a few trusted friends I feel I can ask without making myself vulnerable to those things - here, for example, asking for help with this jump back to state support and letting go of the reins a bit.  I value the opinions of everyone on here, I don't feel judged or put down but at the same time I don't feel people are sycophantic; there's objectivity and suggestion but it's done kindly and in a manner that's aimed at helping rather than making the recipient feel stupid and that makes a big difference :)  So yes, an "I don't need to do this myself list" sounds great and I can start small (going for coffee!  Lol) and build up a bit.  I really like the idea :)

I do get what you mean about trying to get into doing things just for the sake of enjoying them, rather than hoping to become an artist/musician/opera singer/whatever it might be.  I wonder if that is something to do with not being good enough - if I can't be world class at it, why bother?  But it makes such a big difference to spend time doing something you enjoy, even if the end result isn't something that the whole world will appreciate :)

Time versus emotional effort is a really good thing to think about as well, because for me it is often the emotional effort that feels like more work for me - I'd rather put more time in to do something by myself than deal with the emotions of letting other people in.  I do find other people - and particularly other people's emotions - completely exhausting.  So perhaps that is another reason I tend to do things by myself.  I do feel emotionally spent a lot of the time.  That's an interesting idea and I'm going to give it some more thought.  Thank you, G, that has been really helpful :) x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on June 28, 2017, 06:50:18 AM
YAY! I'm so happy you've had this "aha!" moment. Smells like freedom to me.   ;)

You're not alone in dealing with stuff like that, you know. I do it all the time. And spending so much time alone right now - it's baaaaaacccck. I really do need the interaction of talking with and being with smart and intuitive people solving problems together. The "team" approach, sans dominating egos.

I wonder how many years I've spent in denying myself simple pleasures and enjoyment, out of not trusting that others wouldn't sabotage me? That was a brilliant idea, to figure that up.

The teenager - some thoughts for you - since yeah, I know this one too. Her fear is completely, 100% justified and RATIONAL to HER. She needs you to tell her that you understand. Then, explain the difference between her life/death experience... and taking a small risk; exploring and discovering new things - at a comfortable pace, of course. You know how to mother your son; turn some of that experience to teenaged Tupp, too.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on June 28, 2017, 01:21:31 PM
Quote
Wanted you to know that I read your post. Often I don't have much to say or advice as it's not my strong point.

Seconding what Garbanzo said. I've also been reading, but am not very good with advice in this department, not having children of my own. I just don't understand the process.

BUT ... the very first reply by Hops about "leap-of-faith honesty" is something I really believe in. In this case I also think it's perfectly okay to admit to being overwhelmed by the process.

This is a pretty long thread, and I've really just skimmed through it, but again, Hops has given some excellent advice with regard to editing and word choices.

Sorry about writing a half-assed reply, but I wanted you to know that I'm here and reading as much as I can in the limited time I have. I know it can be hard to start a thread, see alot of views, but not receive a lot of replies, so I'm just waving hello here and letting you know I'm in your corner.

Hugs,
Kathy

Kathy, thank you for that, it is much appreciated, and the funny thing is I get a lot from posts on here whether they're related to something I've posted or something that someone else has put up.  Just reading other people's experiences helps me, sometimes because it gives me a different perspective, sometimes because I think 'Ooh, I do that' and then the response helps me as well, sometimes just because as unpleasant as it is knowing other people are struggling it's also nice to know you're not the only one.  The wave is much appreciated and I'm waving right back :)  Tup xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on June 28, 2017, 01:25:56 PM
((((Tupp))))
What an incredible week you've been having!  I'm so excited for you.

  In some ways it's like you're sheltering in place, because that was your reality for so many years.  It's difficult to know when  the bombs  stop falling.  It's hard to trust you're safe, when so many times you weren't, but hoped otherwise.

It's a bit like rediscovering the sun on your face.... It's a process to accept.... and realize it's just THE the sun.....not exposure to risk and  bombs bc they've been falling fir 10 years without fail. 

You really can poke your head out......and be safe in the sun.  It's just the sun,  yours to enjoy with your son again.  Maybe fir the first time with your son.

 That looks dramatic to read, but I know it feels real to you, bc it was the (improbable) truth.

You're discovering your landscape has altered....again, and that you can trust it's real. 

Grieve the time spent under siege, but with your face turned to the sun.  You have to Mourne, to finish this. ...but always turn back where you are now.  You're safe, you have options, and you're able to move on now.  Really feel that and sit with it.  Feel it in your chest and notice what that's like.

I'm so glad for you, Tupp.
Lighter

Lighter, thank you, yes it's like coming out of a bit of a fog or something.  I even feel a bit like the child abuse allegations made me regress a bit somehow, and wonder if that was part of the reason moving 'home' felt like the right thing to do.  I hung around with former childhood friends and for a while it was fine, but the truth is I did outgrow them whilst still a teenager and it seems to me now that I reverted back to teenage behaviour for a while.  I even dated a bloke I used to really fancy when I was about fourteen.  I can't believe I even entertained the idea now but eight or so years ago it seemed like the most natural thing in the world.  So yes, I think finally coming out of a dark place and seeing that there's light and other stuff going on.  I'm finding writing is helping, poems are good because you can express a lot in a relatively short space of time.  Thank you for your words, they are much appreciated xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on June 29, 2017, 02:22:01 PM
 I have been trying this week to rest more and not just keep working all the time and it has made me fall apart a bit - just that sense of letting go and not constantly fighting the unseen threat has made me realise how completely exhausted I am.  What's been interesting is I can see now that my anxiety and negativity are actually tiredness.  The days when I've had a decent amount of sleep and plenty of rest are a real contrast to the days when I've not slept too well or I've not had a chance to rest during the day.  So I'm really trying at the moment to focus on improving that and trying to get as many days as possible where I don't feel dreadful or run around all day long. x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on June 29, 2017, 04:45:04 PM
That makes a lot of sense, Tupp...be kind to yourself.
Keep resting, respect those no-work times you've decided upon.

You've been running on adrenalin for YEARS.
It's so natural that a lot of emotion is surging to the surface now that
you've committed to let go of your hyper-vigilance.

It's just what happens. But if you ride it through you will be able to
construct a saner, simpler life. Let it come and go and weep or sleep.

Don't you ever give up on that dream. You're laying the foundations
for it right now.

love
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on June 30, 2017, 02:39:15 PM
YAY! I'm so happy you've had this "aha!" moment. Smells like freedom to me.   ;)

You're not alone in dealing with stuff like that, you know. I do it all the time. And spending so much time alone right now - it's baaaaaacccck. I really do need the interaction of talking with and being with smart and intuitive people solving problems together. The "team" approach, sans dominating egos.

I wonder how many years I've spent in denying myself simple pleasures and enjoyment, out of not trusting that others wouldn't sabotage me? That was a brilliant idea, to figure that up.

The teenager - some thoughts for you - since yeah, I know this one too. Her fear is completely, 100% justified and RATIONAL to HER. She needs you to tell her that you understand. Then, explain the difference between her life/death experience... and taking a small risk; exploring and discovering new things - at a comfortable pace, of course. You know how to mother your son; turn some of that experience to teenaged Tupp, too.

Skep, I realised today that what I miss so much - and need so much in my life - is 'the interaction of talking with and being with smart and intuitive people solving problems together'.  I haven't had that since I left University, nearly twenty years ago.

University was such a life changer for me.  I grew up in a small village where everyone knew everyone and everyone's business.  My weird family were well known and talked about endlessly.  I never fitted in.  We'd come from money, and then my dad's business went bust and they lost everything and were housed on a big council estate.  I don't know what your equivalent is, the projects?  It's a term I hear but have never really understood, but basically cheap housing in bad areas with loads of social problems and few opportunities.  My mum refused to give up her former luxury lifestyle and we had this cheap terraced house that was full of antiques and crystal chandeliers.  She had a huge box of jewellery, all sorts of precious stones and gold necklaces, a wardrobe full of fur coats and yet we were so skint, my sister and I always wore hand me downs and there was never money for anything luxurious or unnecessary.  I always remember watching the other girls get changed for PE and they had pretty vest and pant sets on, whilst I used to get changed squeezed in the corner so they wouldn't tease me about my boring plain knickers and unisex vest.  Isn't it funny the things that stick in your mind.

So we just didn't fit in on this rough estate, and then my mum sent us to a 'good' school out of the area where most of the kids came from middle class families.  So of course I didn't fit in there either, and was teased for living on the rough estate, whilst the kids on the rough estate teased us for going to a posh school.  It was a very white area, very few families of any other kind of race or culture.  I left school and did a whole load of boring, dead end jobs because there was just no push to do anything else or have any kind of aspiration.  I went to college on a whim in my early twenties; I'd seen them advertising an open day, went for a look around and found myself signing up to do A Levels.  When I got my results my tutor told me to stop faffing around and go to University and I really had no idea what that entailed, it just seemed more interesting than my cleaning job so I did.  And it was this whole new world, all these people from so many different backgrounds, cultures, religions, other countries and languages, so many subjects, so much knowledge and learning and I just loved it.  I soaked it all up, worked my bum off and I got a good degree out of it.  But it was the social interaction and the diversity that I loved more than anything else, but when it ended I just didn't know what to do and moved home.  And I only really realised today how that decision came from fear of the unknown and how moving back home meant I went back to my fake life where I tried to fit in with people I didn't really have anything in common with or want to be around.  And almost twenty years later I'm still stuck here!

Anyway, I'm waffling :)  But that really struck a chord with me, that and denying myself pleasure.  That's been a huge problem for so long now.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on June 30, 2017, 02:42:12 PM
That makes a lot of sense, Tupp...be kind to yourself.
Keep resting, respect those no-work times you've decided upon.

You've been running on adrenalin for YEARS.
It's so natural that a lot of emotion is surging to the surface now that
you've committed to let go of your hyper-vigilance.

It's just what happens. But if you ride it through you will be able to
construct a saner, simpler life. Let it come and go and weep or sleep.

Don't you ever give up on that dream. You're laying the foundations
for it right now.

love
Hops

I'm keeping on keeping on, Hops, but I am feeling so much resistance!  Isn't it weird, I know I want to change, I know I need to, I know what I need to do but there is such a big part of me trying not to.  I am really trying to work on my negative thinking and trying not to let myself keep ruminating on things as I do sometimes.  Even sticking to my non-work days is difficult; I feel I ought to be racing around and I see so many things I could be criticised for it makes me panic and I'm really having to fight the urge not to give in and go back to my constant state of fright mode.  So bizarre that we try to stop ourselves doing the things we know we need to do in order to change!  I will keep trying :) x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 01, 2017, 07:11:22 AM
Had a funny experience this morning.  Drove past a group of traveling showmen parked up by the side of the road, it's the sort of lifestyle that fascinates me but I've always been too shy to speak to anyone when I've seen them parked up like that.  So as part of my new 'relinquishing control' lifestyle I stopped to say hello.  They didn't seem particularly eager to chat so I didn't stop for very long.  On the way back to the van I found myself listing all the negative things they must be thinking about me but I stopped myself - the main thing is that I put myself out of my comfort zone, I showed myself that you really have no idea what people will be like until you talk to them and it doesn't actually matter, it was two minutes out of my day and means I won't spend the rest of the weekend wondering if I missed a life changing moment by not stopping to speak to them!  Baby steps towards not controlling every aspect and not falling apart if something doesn't go the way I imagined (and next step is to stop imagining how things will go in advance!) :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 03, 2017, 04:29:00 AM
Zoiks, well I have sent the email off!  I've kept it brief and factual, essentially just his age, disability and might they be able to help me with the application.  I did realise over the weekend that I was procrastinating a bit; the process itself does still scare me quite a bit but then I thought it's a good opportunity to practise boundaries and assertiveness.  If they want to organise a meeting I can chose a date that suits me, if I haven't got all the paperwork in time I can re-schedule or even, shock, horror, arrive only 80% prepared instead of 100%!  The world wouldn't stop and I could practise letting someone else advise and be part of the process instead of controlling it all the way through.  If I get really stressed and it is becoming a nightmare I can just put it all on hold for a while - there are options other than me needing to be in control all the way through.  And breathe :)

Thank you for all of the help, everybody, I will let you know as developments come along :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 03, 2017, 05:39:17 AM
Zoiks again!  They replied almost straight away and I nearly had a heart attack, I always have visions of a big alarm going off the minute our name pops up on someone's screen :)  Anyway, they've said yes, they can help and asked a few questions, one of which was my consent to enter my son's name on their database.  That made me panic as we've had awful situations with data protection breaches in the past and I know people just ignore the confidential aspect of things a lot of the time but........... I have to give up control so I've agreed and have given them the other info they asked for (just basic stuff about health, address etc).  They will now ring in a week or so to discuss the next step so yes - first step towards giving up control taken!  Might need to go for a lie down :) x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on July 03, 2017, 09:44:58 AM
SO wowed by you hope YOU'RE proud of you, Tupp!
I can hear/feel in my gut how big a step this was.

And you took it. Bravo, bravo!

All really will be well. Do you get a chance to meet with them too?

But this dreadful cursing simply has to stop...
Zoicks? I am shocked, shocked I tell you!

My stars and garters.
Heaven forfend!
Land sakes!

Well I'll be blowed.

Mega hugs,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on July 04, 2017, 09:51:30 AM
Boy can I relate to your story of going to university, Tupps. My life has kind of run the reverse of yours, socio-economically, and I got along better with my profs than most other students. I had high expectations of the ivory tower of knowledge and came away disappointed, when all was said & done. Yes, there were people with the same level of curiosity and self-motivated thought processing of new ideas - and creating ideas - and that's how I got through it. Seeking those people out.

Congrats on your first step! Yes, it DOES take a lot of energy. I can also deeply relate to the emotional processing going on over this bit of life change you're starting. I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that our childhood abusive conditioning is responsible for the fears that we still have -- at the base, my guess is that it's a fear of invalidation, the pain of rejection/humiliation, of being shunned and seen as "not right" - just for being who you are. Being "other".

As it happens, I spent the morning working through processing just this kind of thing that I watched transpire between my D and her SO. The intricate dance of control, domination, and power struggle - and the use of invalidation as a lever or mechanism or weapon in the process. I tried to warn him off the topic, in our conversation, divert him; but it's their dance to the same impasse over & over - and it always goes to that ultimate life/death fear of catastrophic life change. All because he doesn't recognize that invalidation is a boundary transgression with my D. And her anger is directly due to that transgression: he creates it... by feeling that he can monitor, refine, re-organize the most minute expressions of herself...

probably the primal motivation is that he doesn't feel "safe" when he's not in total control. And she doesn't feel "safe" when someone says that who she really is - should be something else. What's kinda odd, is that she was way more in control of her anger - than he was about his conviction of what was right/wrong in a very tiny piece of relaxed, enjoyable conversation. And I don't think he recognizes that. I intervened to get them to drop it - but that never happened.

She's been telling me about this for awhile. Seriously, the whole thing that was made an issue of was so minutely insignificant and trivial I was kinda confused about what was going on. Then, I recognized it was like two kids in the back seat of the car, picking on each other: MOM.... he breathed on me again!!!! She won't stop looking at me!!!! So, I separated them. LOL.

They're as bad as my two cats. But, not letting it drop pushed her right into having to manage her intense anger at being "parented" by him and invalidated over some idiotically minor thing and he is taking the risk of REALLY making her angry; pushing her past the limits of her control with his constant picking at something this minute. She really did pretty good at controlling herself, IMO. Because I've seen her explode and let the anger carry her away.

I don't know where she would get THAT.   :shock:
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on July 04, 2017, 02:34:14 PM
Tupp.... my stomach skittered sideways reading about your names going into databases.  I registered a car recently.  Every time there's a milestone I go over the list of places I've made us vulnerable.  I go through the drill, then come to acceptance.  Again.  It gets better over time, but..... we'll always have little skitters I think. 

Our children are older now.  We can pat ourselves on the back, and look forward now.

::nodding::

I'm so proud of you!

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 05, 2017, 04:08:36 AM
SO wowed by you hope YOU'RE proud of you, Tupp!
I can hear/feel in my gut how big a step this was.

And you took it. Bravo, bravo!

All really will be well. Do you get a chance to meet with them too?

But this dreadful cursing simply has to stop...
Zoicks? I am shocked, shocked I tell you!

My stars and garters.
Heaven forfend!
Land sakes!

Well I'll be blowed.

Mega hugs,
Hops

Hops, you're so funny, I've been watching Scooby Doo with my son so zoiks is my favourite word at the moment.  What is not to love about Scooby Doo?  Just the bestest :)

Anyway, yes, was a big step but has been taken, my old habits - so strong - keep raring up but I am putting them back in their boxes with a firm 'No'.

I think meeting up will be a bit further down the line.  Initially I would like some advice on how much and what kind of information to send in with the initial request, and then I'd like to talk through which parts of the assessment process I need to submit information for.  It's quite a long and drawn out process and I'm aware of the need to keep my stress levels down so ideally I'd like to have everything I need to do done before I put the initial request in, so that I'm not suddenly having to find paperwork and deal with any triggers that might come up whilst I'm up against a deadline.  I'm aware the whole process is going to send me into meltdown more than once so I'm hoping to get myself into a position where all I need to do is put things into envelopes and then go out for a walk.

I've got some info to read re the child protection side of things and as that the bit that freaks me out the most I think I'd like to organise a meeting before it gets to that stage so that everyone has the correct information, not my mother's wibbly wobbly world view.  But that's quite a bit further down the line yet so I've time to read, think and digest (and ask for advice here!) before going any further.  But yes, it does feel good, I'm starting to feel like grown up, well qualified, logical, rational Tup is in charge instead of my frightened little girl (who hopefully will feel less frightened as this process moves along).
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 05, 2017, 04:19:05 AM
Boy can I relate to your story of going to university, Tupps. My life has kind of run the reverse of yours, socio-economically, and I got along better with my profs than most other students. I had high expectations of the ivory tower of knowledge and came away disappointed, when all was said & done. Yes, there were people with the same level of curiosity and self-motivated thought processing of new ideas - and creating ideas - and that's how I got through it. Seeking those people out.

Congrats on your first step! Yes, it DOES take a lot of energy. I can also deeply relate to the emotional processing going on over this bit of life change you're starting. I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that our childhood abusive conditioning is responsible for the fears that we still have -- at the base, my guess is that it's a fear of invalidation, the pain of rejection/humiliation, of being shunned and seen as "not right" - just for being who you are. Being "other".

As it happens, I spent the morning working through processing just this kind of thing that I watched transpire between my D and her SO. The intricate dance of control, domination, and power struggle - and the use of invalidation as a lever or mechanism or weapon in the process. I tried to warn him off the topic, in our conversation, divert him; but it's their dance to the same impasse over & over - and it always goes to that ultimate life/death fear of catastrophic life change. All because he doesn't recognize that invalidation is a boundary transgression with my D. And her anger is directly due to that transgression: he creates it... by feeling that he can monitor, refine, re-organize the most minute expressions of herself...

probably the primal motivation is that he doesn't feel "safe" when he's not in total control. And she doesn't feel "safe" when someone says that who she really is - should be something else. What's kinda odd, is that she was way more in control of her anger - than he was about his conviction of what was right/wrong in a very tiny piece of relaxed, enjoyable conversation. And I don't think he recognizes that. I intervened to get them to drop it - but that never happened.

She's been telling me about this for awhile. Seriously, the whole thing that was made an issue of was so minutely insignificant and trivial I was kinda confused about what was going on. Then, I recognized it was like two kids in the back seat of the car, picking on each other: MOM.... he breathed on me again!!!! She won't stop looking at me!!!! So, I separated them. LOL.

They're as bad as my two cats. But, not letting it drop pushed her right into having to manage her intense anger at being "parented" by him and invalidated over some idiotically minor thing and he is taking the risk of REALLY making her angry; pushing her past the limits of her control with his constant picking at something this minute. She really did pretty good at controlling herself, IMO. Because I've seen her explode and let the anger carry her away.

I don't know where she would get THAT.   :shock:

Hi Skep,

I think I was very lucky as there was a big shift in the sort of people that could go to University here some twenty odd years ago.  Colleges were able to apply for University status and link with established Universities, but they also started providing more financial support, waiving the need for formal qualifications for mature students (the theory being if you were giving up a job and regular income you were doing it because you really wanted to, not because family had insisted) and introducing a wider range of more flexible courses so that people (like me) could work as well as study and it was the opposite of the Ivory Tower of knowledge, really, more a recycled pre fab full of people that wanted more out of life and finally had the chance to have a go.  It was the best period of my life (and is actually making me think now that more study is a good idea for me).

Yes, the childhood conditioning is so relevant; funnily enough I was talking to a friend (who had a horrible University experience) about how much I enjoyed learning and for me the biggest difference was that there were people who took the time to help me understand and improve in a kind and supportive way, instead of laughing at me or calling me a f**king idiot.  I'd not experienced that sort of no-strings help before and I'm only now starting to realise that when I finished Uni I came back to my old role as the village weirdo because I was too scared to take the next step completely alone.  It's hard to pull apart the unnecessary, childhood stuff from who and where we are now.  It's so tangled up.

And yes, I can really identify with other people arguing about such insignificant things that I'm not even sure what the row is about!  One person I know in particular does that; she tells me about some grievance she has and we get to a point where there's a silence and I realise she's at the end of her explanation and I still don't actually know what she's miffed about.  I find it very tiring and have started to keep away from people that do that now, I don't have the spare brain power! :) x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 05, 2017, 04:24:24 AM
Tupp.... my stomach skittered sideways reading about your names going into databases.  I registered a car recently.  Every time there's a milestone I go over the list of places I've made us vulnerable.  I go through the drill, then come to acceptance.  Again.  It gets better over time, but..... we'll always have little skitters I think. 

Our children are older now.  We can pat ourselves on the back, and look forward now.

::nodding::

I'm so proud of you!

Lighter

Thanks, Lighter, I'm proud of you, too!  Yes it's each time, isn't it, you've put another kink in the armour, there's a weak spot there that some unpleasant person can squeeze through but, as you say, our kids are going out into the world now, there comes a time when you have to take the arm bands off.  I am just trying to keep saying to myself that there's only so much I can do.  I won't be here forever and it is better to have him safe, settled and well looked after sooner rather than later.  So yes, stepping gingerly in the right direction :) x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 05, 2017, 02:23:10 PM
Have been reading through the paperwork that explains what will happen during the assessment and who will do what.  I have realised that, in my hypervigilent, stressed out, certain-that-we-are-doomed state (that I typically inhabit) I have misunderstood the section about child protection.  It's only mentioned in the context of there being a current plan in place, so that the different agencies work together instead of repeating the same things in different areas.  There's no need for any historic situations to come up at all.  I am worried about my mum making another referral once she hears my son is at the college but I think I can just mention it informally when I talk things through with the local team and it's probably just a case of letting the college know at the outset.  His social services records were all updated at the time (by me!) and I have had notes put on all of our medical files regarding false allegations so that people are aware.  So I have misunderstood what needs to be brought out into the open here.

I was worried that she'd make allegations when we moved, but that hasn't happened.  It will be heavenly to get him into college and for her to do nothing.  Perhaps she has now given up.

I did start to hyperventilate a bit at the thought of all the work I need to do, but then realised I was going into my 'trying to cover every base and not make a single mistake' mode so I have calmed myself down a bit.  The local team can help me figure out which information I need to organise and what's necessary and at which point.  It is possible to add and change things as we go along and really, I should just focus on getting him into the college for now - I can fine tune and start asking for different things once he's in, settled, happy and we can see where we are at.  I do just need to calm down a bit and in view of that I've decided that I'm not cooking tonight, we're going to go out and get some food and then go for a nice walk to relax before bedtime :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on July 05, 2017, 04:44:46 PM
GOOD for you, Tupp.
You really are recognizing anxiety for what it is and not allowing it to spiral.
So so impressed.

Once he's in the college, can you provide a formal written letter to the college saying, "Please note that contact or communication from maternal grandparents with [Son], his teachers, his counselors or College representatives is disallowed. This must be fully enforced due to a history of family abuse."

I made that up but it sounds sane..... And simple.

?? Dunno. Pretty uninformed advice but again, I don't think you'll have to replicate the ENTIRE history for the College or this application-helping organization. Just drawing that boundary clearly and telling them what they need to know if they ask.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 05, 2017, 04:57:52 PM
GOOD for you, Tupp.
You really are recognizing anxiety for what it is and not allowing it to spiral.
So so impressed.

Once he's in the college, can you provide a formal written letter to the college saying, "Please note that contact or communication from maternal grandparents with [Son], his teachers, his counselors or College representatives is disallowed. This must be fully enforced due to a history of family abuse."

I made that up but it sounds sane..... And simple.

?? Dunno. Pretty uninformed advice but again, I don't think you'll have to replicate the ENTIRE history for the College or this application-helping organization. Just drawing that boundary clearly and telling them what they need to know if they ask.

hugs
Hops

Yes, I think keep it simple, or if I'm really doing well with my relinquishing control mission, not mention it at all and just deal with it if something happens.  The more I think about it the less likely I think it is she will do it again, mostly because he's too old now and therefore no longer in her range of children she likes to cast her spell over.  The whole process will take months anyway so I think I'll just keep it to the back of my mind now and try to focus on more positive things.  We went for a walk this evening and I was thinking how nice it would be to start making good memories now and building on things for the future instead of trying to forget and escape the past.

Didn't realise I'd underlined half of that post either, lol, was just supposed to be one word but clearly I didn't switch it off again :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 06, 2017, 12:14:21 PM
Appointment with consultant this morning and it was awful; very triggering and they seemed very unprofessional so I am feeling very shaken at the mo.  Fortunately I have my two days off scheduled for tomorrow and the day after so I can just relax and recharge if I want to.  Essentially they said they don't think my son's epileptic episodes are epilepsy, they think they're behavioural episodes.  He's been autistic for a long time and I know a lot about the condition and I've never heard of behavioural episodes that resemble epileptic ones.  Added to that it was a neurologist, a consultant and an emergency care team who thought what they witnessed was epileptic seizures, albeit non-convulsive ones (and this is one of those things that they think is under diagnosed), plus he saw a multi-disciplinary team at a large children's hospital that specialises in autism and neurological problems and I think they would have mentioned the possibility of it being behavioural if it was likely?  It has unsettled me a bit, brought back a lot of memories of people dismissing what was going on and echoed people blaming me.  Most of that is on me, not them, but it triggered a lot and there has been a bit of a deluge this afternoon and now I feel quite numb.

I do think doctors randomly disagreeing with previous diagnoses is unprofessional unless further testing has been carried out.  I think it just muddies the waters and causes anxiety for no good reason.  They didn't have any of his previous records despite my writing to them weeks ago to ask them to request them (parents can't ask for records to be transferred, the request has to come from the other hospital).  They also said that his medication is too low a level to be making any difference therapeutically but I've checked since and he's on 200mg more a day than the minimum therapeutic dose.  None of it has instilled any confidence in me but I am trying to keep it in perspective and not let it overwhelm me.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Garbanzo on July 07, 2017, 01:47:44 AM
Gosh that is odd.

It happens. I once had an urgent care doctor tell me as an adult that he didn't think I have asthma even though I've been taking medication for it almost my whole life. He had to call his wife who is also a doctor in that network and happened to be my regular doctor. I assume she told him I was legit with the asthma business. I've also had doctors make me exhale into these big measuring machines that pretty much prove I have asthma.

It did make me feel pretty uncomfortable that he would question it like I was crazy or something. He had given me a really weird look and I can only assume he thought I was a drug addict or having a psychotic episode of some sort.

Doesn't make any sense at all because the medications I was needing at the moment are not things that druggies seek out.

Also if I was that bat crap crazy I would really be on some kind of serious med by now. I do think I was having some sort of anxiety episode at that moment when I went to the doctor.

Anyhow. What can you do but shrug it off and move on which it sounds like you are doing.    8)

For sure if they are going to question prior diagnosis it should be based on some type of testing. At least that would appear to be logical but who knows anymore. It just sounds like a headache to deal with them.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on July 07, 2017, 05:56:48 AM
Tupp, I'm sorry it was so stressful.

But please...DON'T let it turn into a worry conflagration.
Remember that the key bit is that they haven't yet received his records.

So they can jaw and speculate without proof all they like (and I'm sure
it's damned distressing, given what you've been through) -- but once his
records do arrive, things should be more clear.

Even I, a non-doctor (except in my head) know about non-convulsive
epileptic seizures, so what's their excuse?

Anyway, remember that people just blather and aren't sensitive to
the impact of careless statements on you. It's NOT the past repeating...

Breaaaaaathe.....

love,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on July 07, 2017, 07:04:31 AM
Well, that's an epic illustration of the impact of first impressions, isn't it?  ;)

But, I can only echo Hops' take on this. You've met one person there. Are they new? are they qualified? How much of what was said do you really need to take seriously? Were they having a bad day?

Tupps, I have a friend on another board. Her son is 34 and she's home schooled him and cared for him herself. He is now in a residential school - he thinks of it as "college" - where he's learning skills and practicing them, to become self-sufficient as a disabled adult. She is an absolute tiger-mama about advocating for him. I see that same ferocity in you - choosing what's best for your son, making sure he's really understood by those providing services, education and care. Not necessarily aggressive and unpleasant, mind you - but standing your ground, doing all the necessary explanation (as many times as needed) to make sure that he finds a place where he can thrive. You can do this.

We all have our insecurities and fears - and I think you might be beginning to think about your past in this light. Your experience to date is the past, however. With the deck stacked against you, thanks to n-mom. You are trying to find the right path to a future for your son - and you'll run into many experts with outsized egos, who try to attempt to overstep their authority with you: the parent. Just remember your authority is the most important... and there is absolutely nothing wrong with protecting that boundary from those who, with a cursory interview, claim more knowledge of your son than you do. It is OK to challenge them, and present them with the evidence.

In the US, we are allowed to request our medical records - and those our minor children. He's not 18 yet, is he? If he is, you may be able to obtain a legal guardianship which continues your authority and oversight of his affairs even as an adult... obtain his records, to be able to keep new parties to his care on the "path" and not wandering off letting their own ideas swell their heads.

Of course, you would be sensitive to this kind of thing - given your previous experience. And of course, this person seen as "holding" the authority over permission to enroll him is babbling insensitive nonsense, without any context or knowledge or anything. Your early warning system is working as it should. But you are still in the "data gathering" stage of seeing if this would be a correct fit for your son - and neither you or the consultant have enough data to make decisions yet. I'm going to bet there are other schools, if this one doesn't pan out.

So, take your time. Don't let anyone rush you into saying yes or no about anything before you're ready. Do not sign a thing until you feel good about the situation and it's completely clear how things work and where the boundaries and responsibilities are. You are interviewing THEM, so ask lots and lots of questions. Find out as much as you can about how they think about students... do they have a one size fits all lens that simplifies their job - or do they see each student as an individual, with unique characteristics?
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 07, 2017, 03:07:16 PM
Gosh that is odd.

It happens. I once had an urgent care doctor tell me as an adult that he didn't think I have asthma even though I've been taking medication for it almost my whole life. He had to call his wife who is also a doctor in that network and happened to be my regular doctor. I assume she told him I was legit with the asthma business. I've also had doctors make me exhale into these big measuring machines that pretty much prove I have asthma.

It did make me feel pretty uncomfortable that he would question it like I was crazy or something. He had given me a really weird look and I can only assume he thought I was a drug addict or having a psychotic episode of some sort.

Doesn't make any sense at all because the medications I was needing at the moment are not things that druggies seek out.

Also if I was that bat crap crazy I would really be on some kind of serious med by now. I do think I was having some sort of anxiety episode at that moment when I went to the doctor.

Anyhow. What can you do but shrug it off and move on which it sounds like you are doing.    8)

For sure if they are going to question prior diagnosis it should be based on some type of testing. At least that would appear to be logical but who knows anymore. It just sounds like a headache to deal with them.

Oh G, yes, it is the last thing you need when you're unwell, particularly with something you've had all your life and someone suddenly pipes up that they don't think you have it!  I think it's the way things are done.  If someone says, "there is some research that's shown that sometimes x is misdiagnosed as y, how do you feel about us reinvestigating your situation and seeing if there's anything we can do differently now that we know more?" then it feels very different to someone just chucking in a comment that makes you feel crazy about your situation!  What did they do in the end, just give you the meds anyway?  Or insist on doing some different tests.  It's a lack of preparation and sensitivity that I think makes it problematic xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 07, 2017, 03:17:17 PM
Tupp, I'm sorry it was so stressful.

But please...DON'T let it turn into a worry conflagration.
Remember that the key bit is that they haven't yet received his records.

So they can jaw and speculate without proof all they like (and I'm sure
it's damned distressing, given what you've been through) -- but once his
records do arrive, things should be more clear.

Even I, a non-doctor (except in my head) know about non-convulsive
epileptic seizures, so what's their excuse?

Anyway, remember that people just blather and aren't sensitive to
the impact of careless statements on you. It's NOT the past repeating...

Breaaaaaathe.....

love,
Hops

Hops you are right, but what I really noticed is how hard it is for me to control my brain because that fight or flight response is so strong, I literally felt shutters going up in my mind and that surreal feeling of watching what is going on rather than being part of it.  My recollection of the rest of the appointment is hazy, the rest of the day I was on auto-pilot, last night my mind was going wild with escape plans and ways to get him out of the country and a little bit in there is saying 'calm down, calm down', but it's like a tiny little mouse trying to manage a herd of elephants!  I suppose the good thing is that I was aware of what was happening even though I found it difficult to control it.  But I have managed to do mostly physical things today, gardening, walking, grocery shopping, to try and let my brain settle back down, and it is getting there.  I did draft an email; the epilepsy nurse gave me her card as we left so I think I should just say what I would have said yesterday if I hadn't been caught off guard and had had time to think (namely, their calculation about his meds being too low a dose appears to be wrong, them saying all of his seizures have been at weekends isn't accurate, they were mostly at weekends while he was being monitored last year but that was only for about ten weeks and doesn't cover the whole three years this has been happening.  I don't know off the top of my head how many have been at weekends and how many during the week but I have got bits and pieces written down.  Lastly, his eyelids flicker, he twitches and his heart beat is erratic when he has these episodes).

Sorry that's a bit rambly, but yes, they don't have his records and they bloody well should have!  It's so unprofessional and it happens every single time.  No-one bothers to get any background before hand.  Lazy and unprofessional.

So yes, I am winding back down again now, I'm just so tired of having to deal with other people. x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 07, 2017, 03:22:30 PM
Well, that's an epic illustration of the impact of first impressions, isn't it?  ;)

But, I can only echo Hops' take on this. You've met one person there. Are they new? are they qualified? How much of what was said do you really need to take seriously? Were they having a bad day?

Tupps, I have a friend on another board. Her son is 34 and she's home schooled him and cared for him herself. He is now in a residential school - he thinks of it as "college" - where he's learning skills and practicing them, to become self-sufficient as a disabled adult. She is an absolute tiger-mama about advocating for him. I see that same ferocity in you - choosing what's best for your son, making sure he's really understood by those providing services, education and care. Not necessarily aggressive and unpleasant, mind you - but standing your ground, doing all the necessary explanation (as many times as needed) to make sure that he finds a place where he can thrive. You can do this.

We all have our insecurities and fears - and I think you might be beginning to think about your past in this light. Your experience to date is the past, however. With the deck stacked against you, thanks to n-mom. You are trying to find the right path to a future for your son - and you'll run into many experts with outsized egos, who try to attempt to overstep their authority with you: the parent. Just remember your authority is the most important... and there is absolutely nothing wrong with protecting that boundary from those who, with a cursory interview, claim more knowledge of your son than you do. It is OK to challenge them, and present them with the evidence.

In the US, we are allowed to request our medical records - and those our minor children. He's not 18 yet, is he? If he is, you may be able to obtain a legal guardianship which continues your authority and oversight of his affairs even as an adult... obtain his records, to be able to keep new parties to his care on the "path" and not wandering off letting their own ideas swell their heads.

Of course, you would be sensitive to this kind of thing - given your previous experience. And of course, this person seen as "holding" the authority over permission to enroll him is babbling insensitive nonsense, without any context or knowledge or anything. Your early warning system is working as it should. But you are still in the "data gathering" stage of seeing if this would be a correct fit for your son - and neither you or the consultant have enough data to make decisions yet. I'm going to bet there are other schools, if this one doesn't pan out.

So, take your time. Don't let anyone rush you into saying yes or no about anything before you're ready. Do not sign a thing until you feel good about the situation and it's completely clear how things work and where the boundaries and responsibilities are. You are interviewing THEM, so ask lots and lots of questions. Find out as much as you can about how they think about students... do they have a one size fits all lens that simplifies their job - or do they see each student as an individual, with unique characteristics?

Hiya Skep, this is where the situation gets complicated, this was a hospital appointment, healthcare only so the college thing is a different process - multiple opportunities for problems lol.  I think so many parts of the process are stressful at the moment - the health care aspect, the college, his needs have changed so I have to redo his funding application (42 pages!) and then it will have to be done again in six months time because he changes from child to adult (in terms of disability benefits), I have the court papers to organise so I can make his decisions for him after he turns 16 and there's additional evidence I need to provide for a different set of benefits, again as he turns 16.  Added to which my personal nonsense just flew out yesterday, really knocked me for six, and then it felt like everything was just cascading down in one huge tsunami.

Anyway - slowly plodding through.  I am coming back down to earth, things are slowly returning to normal.  My feet hurt!  Lol, that's a good sign because I had that weird thing yesterday where my body didn't feel like my own and I was numb - now everything's aching from the gardening lol x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on July 07, 2017, 11:04:09 PM
You really are a champion, Tupp.
I think you are doing an AMAZING job.

And yes, I love Amber's advice to do a repetitive, methodical correction whenever needed, with the basic documentation that explains it.

I am so awed by your maturity--the way you recognized panic for what it was, but although it impacted your focus and so forth in the moment, it didn't derail your clarity of mind or intellect one bit.

And now you're settling, regaining the present tense, accepting the yoke of the process, and coming back to yourself.

GOOD JOB, you. You really are going to be okay, and so is your son. He's going to wind up in a college that will expand his confidence, stimulate his growth, bring him new experiences and new friendships and serve him well for the rest of his life.

(And you'll get to have a full life too.)

Keep on breathing and don't let bureaucrats who don't mean harm but don't realize how triggering every careless comment may be for you -- don't let them frighten you.

Do you have any idea how amazing you are?

love and respect,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on July 08, 2017, 11:21:49 AM
OK Tupps, you've officially confused me. How old is your son now?   :lol:

I think some things got out of order, while you were typing - because it all makes sense to you. But I'm not sure if he's 16, 17, or he's going to have a really short chronological year where he makes the leap from 16 to 18...

I do this too. So, it's no big deal except you might want to be aware of it, with all the communications you've got going on right now. I know I get real anxious about my communication style, dealing with "authorities" or "experts" and desperately wanting to be heard & understood & taken seriously; believed. OH WAIT... I just reread it...

Do son's benefits change at age 16? Is that what I missed the first read through?? (sheesh...) And he's really 15 now?

Maybe it's me (not you). Having a dingbat moment here, I think. At least it's good for comic relief.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 08, 2017, 11:42:40 AM
You really are a champion, Tupp.
I think you are doing an AMAZING job.

And yes, I love Amber's advice to do a repetitive, methodical correction whenever needed, with the basic documentation that explains it.

I am so awed by your maturity--the way you recognized panic for what it was, but although it impacted your focus and so forth in the moment, it didn't derail your clarity of mind or intellect one bit.

And now you're settling, regaining the present tense, accepting the yoke of the process, and coming back to yourself.

GOOD JOB, you. You really are going to be okay, and so is your son. He's going to wind up in a college that will expand his confidence, stimulate his growth, bring him new experiences and new friendships and serve him well for the rest of his life.

(And you'll get to have a full life too.)

Keep on breathing and don't let bureaucrats who don't mean harm but don't realize how triggering every careless comment may be for you -- don't let them frighten you.

Do you have any idea how amazing you are?

love and respect,
Hops

Hops, you are so kind, thank you, do you know what though, I don't feel amazing, I feel like a frightened teenager, but I realised today I don't know how to make her feel safe?  I don't know what to do to make that inner part of me feel relaxed, comforted, secure.  I've tried talking to her but I feel that she feels this is bullshit, she's heard it all before but still it keeps coming up and the cycle keeps repeating.  I'm so tired, on every level, and in every form, adult, mum. young Tup, adult in recovery, adult trying to build a life.

I have/am trying to turn this into positives (although a voice inside me keeps screaming, "this is New Age bullshit!  Smack those f**kers in the face!").  I have written up what happened as a chapter for my book.  If I can write a book about everything that's happened over the years and make a bit of money from it I'll be able to pay for him to see better doctors and life will be easier, so I tried to look at it as material for my work.  We did get some good news as well, although I didn't realise as it came in the post and I didn't open the mail in case it was something horrible that made me feel worse.  But we've been given a grant for some days out, some toys (Lego, in his case!) and some new bedding for his room, which in turn means I can turn his old bedding into cushions and rugs and make him a little reading area by his bookcase.  I was also sent some information about a grant for carers that can be used for household improvements and things like that, so I might be able to get some money to pay for some carpet, which would be great.

I'm trying to look at it as 'something I will just have to deal with' and I think for all appointments in future I will hope for the best but prepare for the worst - keep a couple of days afterwards free of appointments, stock up on good food and box sets before hand, make sure we've nothing else stressful or difficult to deal with around the same time and then batten down the hatches if need be.  If it goes well, great, if not, well then I'm ready for a couple of days of hiding out at home.  So I guess it was a good practise run for further interactions as there will be a great number over the coming years and I am trying to see it as a good way to experience it before we're actually dealing with anything serious.

Anyway, enough of all that - how are you and pooch doing? :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 08, 2017, 11:54:19 AM
OK Tupps, you've officially confused me. How old is your son now?   :lol:

I think some things got out of order, while you were typing - because it all makes sense to you. But I'm not sure if he's 16, 17, or he's going to have a really short chronological year where he makes the leap from 16 to 18...

I do this too. So, it's no big deal except you might want to be aware of it, with all the communications you've got going on right now. I know I get real anxious about my communication style, dealing with "authorities" or "experts" and desperately wanting to be heard & understood & taken seriously; believed. OH WAIT... I just reread it...

Do son's benefits change at age 16? Is that what I missed the first read through?? (sheesh...) And he's really 15 now?

Maybe it's me (not you). Having a dingbat moment here, I think. At least it's good for comic relief.

Lol, no it is confusing, Skep, and I'm sure I've rambled on and jumped from one thing to the next without thinking about it :)

He's 15 at the moment and turns 16 next March.  The system here is weird, at 16 he is expected to be able to manage his own money and make his own decisions re medical procedures and what not, and he also becomes an 'adult' as far as disability benefits go.

But he's also expected to stay in education until he's 19 (and for people with learning difficulties there is the option of staying in until 25 which I plan to take full advantage of).  There are additional benefits that are education related until he leaves full time education.  In the meantime the disability benefit he's currently on (which is for children) needs to be amended because his needs have reduced (as his walking's improved) so he'll be entitled to a lower amount of money.  It's ridiculously complicated!

So essentially I have a long form to fill in to change his current child's disability benefit (and if I don't do that it's fraud so morally and legally it's important).  The processing of all things paperwork related is lengthy, as I'm sure it is in most countries, so in order to ensure he doesn't lose money when he turns 16 they recommend that you deal with the child to adult change three months earlier, which will be this December.  At the same time I'll need to pull together evidence that he's being taught at home in order to continue receiving the education related benefits when he turns 16, and they in turn are affected by disability benefits so if things are delayed you can find yourself without an income which is obviously not a good idea.

If the college placement is sorted out by the time he's 16 it will make everything much easier from a paperwork point of view as the college basically rubber stamp everything, but the process for college can take anything from five months to two years, as it's sometimes necessary to go to court if the local authority refuse to provide funds or support at any stage, as you have to get a judge to overturn the decision.

Somewhere in amongst all of that I also need to sort out the court paperwork that will give me permission to act on his behalf once he turns 16, which can also cause problems if it isn't done with regards the benefit payments and medical situations.

So yes, it is all very confusing, lol, it literally melts my brain and every sector of each local authority service is very strapped for cash so they do work very hard not to give you help, it's up to you to fight for it and that means knowing the law and being able to fight your case each time.  Hence my hoping to make some money out of writing a book so I can just pay for what he needs, it would be so much easier!  Lol :)  I hope all your work at home is going well, I was thinking of you this morning when I was pulling stacks of bamboo out of my garden! x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on July 08, 2017, 06:33:13 PM
You're not at WAR, Tupp.

These are just...people.

They're not soliders in an evil army intent on hurting you. They're really not.

I hope you can continue one day, one interaction at a time...
and look for the humanity.

You are not at war.
You're just richocheting from bad memories.

In the PRESENT you are doing just fine.
You're not going to have to re-live all those bad years!!!!

They're over. Over. Over.

lots of love,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on July 09, 2017, 09:20:13 AM
Tupps, you're going to be fine and you'll do well.

Figure out which process needs to be completed first - to make the others go more smoothly. Focus on the first one. Take your time, but don't let things drag out without followups in a reasonable amount of time. Perhaps there's some kind of benefits coordinator who can help walk you through this?? Across the various agencies? Try scheduling your work hours on this, so your whole waking day isn't devoted to it.

Things go better, when you're able to see these people as real people who are there (supposedly) because they want to help. (not all of them are, btw.) Try to make their job easier and more pleasant. Asking questions helps reduce misunderstandings or kinks in the process.

With Twiggy, and getting thrown suddenly into an unfamiliar world of high finance & business, I had to sternly remind her that she had little or no experience dealing with this kind of thing and therefore, didn't have any reason to be afraid, angry, frustrated or have an opinion at ALL about the tasks at hand. But that I would take the time to sit with her on a regular basis to hear her out. In the end, she had to trust ME, to take care that she wasn't put into a bad situation and I know by now, what to look for. It was going to be OK. That helped. So did celebrating each and every little milestone of completion and not procrastinating about moving along to the next thing in the process. She relaxed and I could stay centered in my intellectual zone.

This is a work situation you're in, Tupps. Business, legal, government... financial... medical... and it's for one of the most important non-business reasons ever: creating a path for son to grow up, become as independent as he can, and change his relationship with mom. There is a whole emotional side to what you're trying to achieve for him. For me, it's always worked best to compartmentalize those two aspects of the experience, while not forgetting the emotional result I want - successful, happy completion of the process - depends on my being extremely business-like and professional executing the process. I'm sure there are people who would argue compartmentalization isn't a good thing. But it's how I have to FUNCTION, to get through it at all. LOL.

With practice, the degree of separation between those two "realms" doesn't have to be as clear-cut and strong... but it does take practice to keep the ability crisp and on "point". It's usually been the times, the emotional bleeds into the business, that problems have occurred. Not always - but there's a higher possibility.

If you stop tugging on the 16 ton anvil - it doesn't seem as heavy.  ;)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on July 09, 2017, 04:53:14 PM
Quote
This is a work situation you're in, Tupps.


I think PR's advice here is really perceptive, Tupp.

No diminishing all the trigger-trails you're ducking, not at all, but with GREAT confidence you really are going to continue your walk through this tedious process with sanity.

Serenity in moments, maybe...but sanity all the time.

love,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 10, 2017, 04:52:23 AM
Thank you both, will reply properly later, head a bit wonky at the moment but yes, emotion and work are a big conflict for me, staying detached, dealing with other people, it's a job I don't want.  I think that's a big issue that I need to work on.  Young Tup wants to come out and tell people to f**k off, in a way she couldn't when she was younger.  Grown up Tup knows that's asking for trouble (although even grown up Tup is tempted sometimes, lol).  Tired.  Have tried to stick to my exercise/yoga/mediation over the weekend but feel like I'm sinking.  Just need to wait for it to pass.  Have sent the email off, calm, factual, I've explained I don't feel I gave clear information about certain aspects and have clarified a few facts.  Polite, non-confrontational.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on July 10, 2017, 09:08:57 AM
Wow. Despite the inner stress, you gave them a perfect followup message.
Accomplishing what you really needed.

It's the drip-drip responses of facts, accurate information, polite correction.

And I can't prove why, but somehow I really do not feel that this process of
getting his college application sorted, is going to be the nightmare your previous
encounters with the system have been. This young man is 15 and you've done so well
by him.

It just sounds boring and tiring, to sort through which factoids they need from you and
which communications are necessary. Are there still options to meet in person? Will
there be ONE person assigned to your situation until it's all sorted, or do you have to
keep emailing everything? (I know you'll be wary of getting into a huge overblown
correspondence.)

You're doing great, Tupp. I don't sense danger in anything they've done...irritant
here and there but no danger to you.

love
Hops

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on July 10, 2017, 09:22:49 AM
Over here, when you first apply for social security benefits and then medicare you also are told to do it three months in advance. I was very wary and anxious about the whole thing but it turned out not to be as forbidding as I expected. Tedious but not frightening.

I think the application to continue as his fiduciary/PowerofAttorney/legal guardian or whatever the term is (making decisions for him once he's 16) sounds like a key piece to get into place.

Do you have a folder for each piece of this process, all set up in a tidy spot? Maybe a shoebox turned over, with slots sawed into it, as a desktop file rack? You can sort the blank applications, forms and copies of supporting documentation (as required) for each separate step of the Job into individual folders. Put the highest/next-priority one at the front, and just pick it up every chance you can and keep on plugging at it.

I remember when I briefly hired the organizer-lady, she had me go to the cheapest store and find "pretty folders." I was rolling my eyes. But she was right. I have file drawers full of the usual manila folders in hanging green files and they're all good. But for currently-active stuff, she had me grab a little wire folder rack (a sort of "stepped" design which lets you see all the folders' names at once) and put colorful ones there for current projects. (As opposed to storage files, these are the active ones that need daily/weekly attention for now.)

Forgive the tangent.

love
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 10, 2017, 11:15:41 AM
Over here, when you first apply for social security benefits and then medicare you also are told to do it three months in advance. I was very wary and anxious about the whole thing but it turned out not to be as forbidding as I expected. Tedious but not frightening.

I think the application to continue as his fiduciary/PowerofAttorney/legal guardian or whatever the term is (making decisions for him once he's 16) sounds like a key piece to get into place.

Do you have a folder for each piece of this process, all set up in a tidy spot? Maybe a shoebox turned over, with slots sawed into it, as a desktop file rack? You can sort the blank applications, forms and copies of supporting documentation (as required) for each separate step of the Job into individual folders. Put the highest/next-priority one at the front, and just pick it up every chance you can and keep on plugging at it.

I remember when I briefly hired the organizer-lady, she had me go to the cheapest store and find "pretty folders." I was rolling my eyes. But she was right. I have file drawers full of the usual manila folders in hanging green files and they're all good. But for currently-active stuff, she had me grab a little wire folder rack (a sort of "stepped" design which lets you see all the folders' names at once) and put colorful ones there for current projects. (As opposed to storage files, these are the active ones that need daily/weekly attention for now.)

Forgive the tangent.

love
Hops

Lol, I love the tangent as I love stationary!  I have everything filed in pretty folders, larger or odd shaped items are in pretty boxes,  it's all labelled and arranged in date order, I have a master file that contains all of his medical assessments in date order (from birth onwards), two files on my desk, to do and to file and frequently referred to info blu tacked to the wall.  My computer is reasonably well organised into folders as well; one funny thing is that I had to spend an entire afternoon last year renaming all my files because I am usually upset or angry when I'm writing something up so I'd saved everything under a rude or bad language title.  Lol, had to go through dozens of files and rename them sensibly with name and brief description as 'Dr Cockwomble' wasn't really suitable (although to be fair I knew what each one was from the rude title :) ).

To be honest it probably won't be as bad as I think once I get going with it all, it's getting started that's putting me off and I just keep getting so angry at the unfairness of having to prove over and over again that he has these problems.  I think I might just leave it for a few days now and wait for everything to settle a bit.

The hospital emailed back; what I've sent them makes no difference, they are now saying there are several possible explanations for my son's problems (this is after three years of no-one having any explanation until epilepsy was suggested) so I'm just going to leave that for now; there's nothing I can do about it.

The college application will have about a dozen people involved, I think, and it goes through several stages, local initially, then various medical people (oh joy!), educational psychologist, then to panel, his needs are considered complex so I think it then goes to another panel (need to check).
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 10, 2017, 12:00:45 PM
How funny, lady about the college application rang just as I was typing that last one!

Has given me some info about what to provide (basically mountains of information and don't assume they know or understand any aspect of disability!  Write it as if you were speaking to someone who knows nothing!).  So plenty of work for me, fortunately I have hoarded huge amounts of paperwork as I was always so worried about being accused again so perhaps that cloud did have a silver lining :)

They can check over the draft for me and someone can come out to the house; I might take advantage of that to bring up the previous child protection stuff just to see what they think about the current situation (ie, should college/local authority be made aware in case she does it again).  I'll think about that over the next few weeks.  They can also arrange for someone to speak to my son independently for his views on the situation so that is helpful.  I feel the need to stuff my face silly!  Argh! Lol :)

Hops, thank you for your thoughts and info, it is appreciated :) x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on July 10, 2017, 02:44:10 PM
Wowsers!
I should dip into my retirement fund to buy you a ticket across the ocean to come sort MY files, Tupp!
That is awesome, just awesome.

You are so on top of this.
And so very understandably sick of the redundant laborious tedium of it.

I'm having optimistic thoughts that this organization's mandate of HELPING you through it might in the end ultimately prove to actually have been helpful! Given that they can't eliminate the red tape, sounds like you've gotten decent advise on how to navigate through it with somewhat less misery, anyway.

Maybe that's the best to hope for. There really is light at the end of the tunnel...it's just so hard to see when you first walk into it.

Hang in there,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 10, 2017, 03:13:37 PM
Wowsers!
I should dip into my retirement fund to buy you a ticket across the ocean to come sort MY files, Tupp!
That is awesome, just awesome.

You are so on top of this.
And so very understandably sick of the redundant laborious tedium of it.

I'm having optimistic thoughts that this organization's mandate of HELPING you through it might in the end ultimately prove to actually have been helpful! Given that they can't eliminate the red tape, sounds like you've gotten decent advise on how to navigate through it with somewhat less misery, anyway.

Maybe that's the best to hope for. There really is light at the end of the tunnel...it's just so hard to see when you first walk into it.

Hang in there,
Hops

Thanks, Hops, do you know I love decluttering and organising stuff, if you lived around the corner I would happily sort your files!  And go and sort Bonesie's stuff out too :)

It is the tedium and the repetition that bugs me, as well as the underlying inequality (ie kids without disabilities just go to school, there isn't a huge paperwork battle beforehand and there aren't any budget restraints, it's just there).  And also trying to make sure it's watertight so that they can't find a crack they can use to refuse to support.

But yes, this group have a good reputation with other parents, their info is clear and well written and they are flexible with their help - it's there if you want it but no-one is shoving it down your throat.  I have been thinking this afternoon and the medical info I need for his benefit form can be reused for parts of the college one, and I can basically copy it again for his next benefit application in December.  The info I put together for the college application can be used for the other education based benefits if the college place isn't agreed in time, and I can ask along the way for someone to provide a report for the court for guardianship for him (basically someone with medical knowledge has to declare him incapable of dealing with his own affairs and me competent enough to do it).  So with a bit of luck (fingers crossed) all the different bits will come together at the same time - I think it's a bit like cooking Christmas dinner :) x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on July 10, 2017, 03:26:23 PM
That's awesome, Tupp.
VERY sane sounding.

Since guardianship gives you ultimate authority and power over his situation, wouldn't it relieve your mind to get that nearer to the top of the list?

(Mention that only because of what I went through with my brother. When he roared out of nowhere making accusations, the court had to appoint a temporary financial conservator for my mother (not the same as a medical guardian, which they made me), which meant a whole 'nother mountain of paperwork and legal stress. If I'd known that would ever have happened/been formally necessary, it would've spared me a whoooole lot. I don't know that my experience is really comparable to yours, but thought I'd mention it to consider in making your priorities. Sometimes what feels immediate isn't always the most urgent, or it's easy to postpone something that ultimately could be more important.)

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 10, 2017, 03:47:43 PM
That's awesome, Tupp.
VERY sane sounding.

Since guardianship gives you ultimate authority and power over his situation, wouldn't it relieve your mind to get that nearer to the top of the list?

(Mention that only because of what I went through with my brother. When he roared out of nowhere making accusations, the court had to appoint a guardian ad litem for my mother, which meant a whole 'nother mountain of paperwork and legal stress. So if I'd known that would ever have happened and I'd already had legal guardianship in place, it would've spared me a whoooole lot. I don't know that my experience is really comparable to yours, but thought I'd mention it to consider in making your priorities. Sometimes what feels immediate isn't always the most urgent, or it's easy to postpone something that ultimately is more important.)

hugs
Hops

It is important but can't be done until he turns 16; I can file the court papers shortly before so that the hearing is close to his birthday but until he's 16 I have automatic rights to act on his behalf anyway (as he's a minor).  But yes, it isn't something I want to leave to chance because it is another area open to abuse by my mother, who could start to kick up a stink.  So that plan at the minute is to have all the paperwork ready and file as soon as we are able to (I think it was a month before but will double check).  It's horrible that your brother did that, it never ceases to amaze me that some people go out of their way to make other people's lives difficult x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Bettyanne on July 10, 2017, 05:47:27 PM
As you know Two a Penny.....I had a brother born with cerebral palsy....who never got beyond about six months old  mentally/physically.  My NM left him at home with a mother in her sixties at the time of his birth until my grandmother call Nanny until she couldn't get out of bed at age 84 and she died at 87.  Not a good situation either....my Nanny didn't have the skills to take care of him either but with NM it didn't matter because she was out of the house at a office full time..and rest of us had to learn how to swim through this situation.  As you might imagine convulsions, feeding him, changing him omg I could go on and on. 
So here we are today and you need to let go just two days a week.....that would be the best thing you could do for yourself and perhaps your son too.  Please pat yourself on the back for being a caring and loving mom to your son.  And I agree with you, must be hard to trust anyone with your precious son?  but there needs to be happy medium where you can have a break and you get to fill some of your own needs.  One is start  thinking there is someone out there you will be able to find.......thinking some positive thoughts and putting that into action in your thinking.....maybe you might not find that person this minute but it will come......God the universe or what ever you call God or don't Creator might be a good starting place.  And putting that in your head and visualizing it helps too. 
I totally get where you are......but things can change....if your willing to let go a little at first and build on that in the days ahead.....
Love, Bettyanne.....
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on July 10, 2017, 06:19:12 PM
I edited my previous as being her "guardian" (physical-medical decision-maker) wasn't at issue...the court immediately legally assigned me that role. It was about financial control, which was all my brother was interested in. He wanted to take control of her money and I wouldn't give him access to it. But because of his lies, they had to appoint a Temporary Conservator of her finances until it all could be audited. I came out clean and clear. It just took two years of massive worry, stress and tens of thousands in legal fees.

You sound really significantly prepared, on top of things, and focused, Tupp. You really are going to be okay. It is likely to be tedious but I wouldn't be surprised if it's way LESS difficult (way, way less) than it was before.

I have huge confidence. And I think these people really are going to help you.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 12, 2017, 01:19:27 PM
As you know Two a Penny.....I had a brother born with cerebral palsy....who never got beyond about six months old  mentally/physically.  My NM left him at home with a mother in her sixties at the time of his birth until my grandmother call Nanny until she couldn't get out of bed at age 84 and she died at 87.  Not a good situation either....my Nanny didn't have the skills to take care of him either but with NM it didn't matter because she was out of the house at a office full time..and rest of us had to learn how to swim through this situation.  As you might imagine convulsions, feeding him, changing him omg I could go on and on. 
So here we are today and you need to let go just two days a week.....that would be the best thing you could do for yourself and perhaps your son too.  Please pat yourself on the back for being a caring and loving mom to your son.  And I agree with you, must be hard to trust anyone with your precious son?  but there needs to be happy medium where you can have a break and you get to fill some of your own needs.  One is start  thinking there is someone out there you will be able to find.......thinking some positive thoughts and putting that into action in your thinking.....maybe you might not find that person this minute but it will come......God the universe or what ever you call God or don't Creator might be a good starting place.  And putting that in your head and visualizing it helps too. 
I totally get where you are......but things can change....if your willing to let go a little at first and build on that in the days ahead.....
Love, Bettyanne.....

Hi Bettyanne, it's nice to see you posting again :)

Yes you are right, good quality care is difficult to come by.  I think one of the things that is difficult when you're very tired (as I am all of the time!) is that having to explain things to someone else and then find the energy to put your faith in them and hope for the best feels like too much work and it's easy to fall into that rut of just doing it yourself; if I do everything I know it's been done properly and you know, I still have a huge hangup about someone abusing him.  That's definitely my issue to work on but it's a tough one to get by.

So yes, I'm getting there in baby steps.  I'm taking more time off at home - he's in one room, I'm in another.  We've got assessments with social services as part of his college application so I'm going to ask them for some money to pay for care for him.  I do know someone who is a very good carer; I doubt he'd be able to provide the care himself (he's so good he always has a waiting list for clients) but he might be able to recommend someone or at least talk me through the best way to hire help.  There are two activities my son does each week that involve an hour and a half to two hour's driving, and then me sitting there bored while he does his thing.  So even getting someone to take him along to those would free up five or six hours a week for me.  I know I need to get back into the habit of having a life of my own again.  It's funny how you get used to going without things.  So yes, getting there slowly.  How are things with you? x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 13, 2017, 02:30:59 PM
Tupps, you're going to be fine and you'll do well.

Figure out which process needs to be completed first - to make the others go more smoothly. Focus on the first one. Take your time, but don't let things drag out without followups in a reasonable amount of time. Perhaps there's some kind of benefits coordinator who can help walk you through this?? Across the various agencies? Try scheduling your work hours on this, so your whole waking day isn't devoted to it.

Things go better, when you're able to see these people as real people who are there (supposedly) because they want to help. (not all of them are, btw.) Try to make their job easier and more pleasant. Asking questions helps reduce misunderstandings or kinks in the process.

With Twiggy, and getting thrown suddenly into an unfamiliar world of high finance & business, I had to sternly remind her that she had little or no experience dealing with this kind of thing and therefore, didn't have any reason to be afraid, angry, frustrated or have an opinion at ALL about the tasks at hand. But that I would take the time to sit with her on a regular basis to hear her out. In the end, she had to trust ME, to take care that she wasn't put into a bad situation and I know by now, what to look for. It was going to be OK. That helped. So did celebrating each and every little milestone of completion and not procrastinating about moving along to the next thing in the process. She relaxed and I could stay centered in my intellectual zone.

This is a work situation you're in, Tupps. Business, legal, government... financial... medical... and it's for one of the most important non-business reasons ever: creating a path for son to grow up, become as independent as he can, and change his relationship with mom. There is a whole emotional side to what you're trying to achieve for him. For me, it's always worked best to compartmentalize those two aspects of the experience, while not forgetting the emotional result I want - successful, happy completion of the process - depends on my being extremely business-like and professional executing the process. I'm sure there are people who would argue compartmentalization isn't a good thing. But it's how I have to FUNCTION, to get through it at all. LOL.

With practice, the degree of separation between those two "realms" doesn't have to be as clear-cut and strong... but it does take practice to keep the ability crisp and on "point". It's usually been the times, the emotional bleeds into the business, that problems have occurred. Not always - but there's a higher possibility.

If you stop tugging on the 16 ton anvil - it doesn't seem as heavy.  ;)

I have been churning this over in my mind over the last few days, Skep and I have some rambling thoughts!  Not sure what to make of them just yet but am putting them down here for now, it helps to type them up and try to put them into some sort of sense.

Sooooo - I think a scared, frightened, fifteen year old version of myself is very present a lot of the time.  A desperate need to be liked, loved, wanted - even by people I don't particularly want - and a desperate need not to make a mistake or show any sign of vulnerability or weakness.  I'm even wondering if this is what's at the root of my endless repetition of working my socks off and not following through at the end - the adult me knowing and understand that things need to be done - jobs applied for, qualifications earnt, self discovery to be pursued - and then the fifteen year old gets too scared and pulls the plug.

I have been trying to observe my feelings and thoughts without getting too bogged down by them.  Endless repetition of negative events or experiences - I find it incredibly difficult to shift this when I'm going through a rough patch and am feeling tired and listless.
Very deep feelings of not being good enough - never matching up, not doing as well as everybody else does.
At a (possibly) truer level, feeling bored or irritated by people and it crossing my mind that actually, it is alright to find people boring and irritating and to crave a certain type of company.  I wonder if my need to be liked and not come across as mean or unpleasant stops me from just removing myself from a situation or changing seats, for example.
Desperate need not to offend or upset people - that one's clear!  But at the same time I feel like I react in a childlike way to 'authority' sometimes, rebelling, demanding, almost sulking if I don't get what I want.  My younger self is pissed off that family life was so bad, and that no-one else noticed or did anything about it.  No-one rescued me and I think a big part of me is still waiting for that.

My son - a difficult one because he genuinely needs a lot more care and support than a fifteen year old would usually.  He's more like a six or seven year old in his mind.  So it's difficult to separate his genuine care needs from my need to make sure his life is perfect and that he's never sad, lonely, ignored or left to feel unloved.  I can see that it's really important for me to step back now and get other people - who aren't emotionally involved - involved in his care so that his needs are met, but not exclusively by me and so that he can experience a few emotional knocks and tumbles and recover from them in his own way and in his own time.  I'm finding that quite difficult - the thought of him being unhappy breaks my heart, I think because I was just so miserable my whole life and no-one gave a shit.  But we do all need to experience a bit of rough time to know how to cope and deal with it.  He does have good coping strategies, because I've taught him healthy ways.  By the time I was his age I'd been abused (sexually) for three years, I was sexually active with boys of my own age and I was drinking heavily.  I look at him and, even taking into account his disability, he lives in a world of Lego and TV shows, he's safe, warm, well fed, his bedroom is nice, I respect his privacy and his boundaries, he's learnt about sex and relationships in a healthy way (through books and talking), he's involved in decision making, I listen to him when he's unhappy about something, he knows he can say no (and does!  frequently, lol).  I have done a bloody good job with him, he's had a magical childhood compared to my own, and goodness only knows how many other people's.  So I think it's time to stop nurturing that frightened fifteen year old through him and start to really focus on me, adult Tup, soon to be moving back into the adult world of work and socialising!  That actually makes me feel a bit excited.

I will stop rambling for a bit.  My head feels very fuzzy at the moment; I'm hoping one more good night's sleep will clear it.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on July 13, 2017, 03:37:30 PM
I LOVE this.

Quote
I have done a bloody good job with him, he's had a magical childhood compared to my own, and goodness only knows how many other people's.  So I think it's time to stop nurturing that frightened fifteen year old through him and start to really focus on me, adult Tup....

Hear, hear! HOOO-AHHH! (Favorite Al Pacino quote from Scent of a Woman).

Oh, yay.

Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on July 14, 2017, 07:06:26 AM
I'm not going to say a lot this time - because you're getting it all sorted like a super-hero and you're "seeing" pretty clearly.

I'll just mention that sometimes I don't know exactly who needs to "release the outcome" MORE, me or the 12 yr old that I still sometimes feel being restless, pouty & demanding "within". And that at times, I'm so busy dealing with that - it takes a fair bit of time & energy - still trying to recompense for deprivation and invalidation - that I forget to see the other people around me, from their shoes. A person's perception of everything changes when the one within goes quiet for a bit, and relinquishes the "driver's seat".

Did you already say, and I missed it - that your son also has opportunities to be with other kids? On his own and supervised? I think that was another thing that happened with Twiggy that kind of permanently set some of my characteristics about interactions with other people. I was often isolated away from other kids, so that by the time I went to grade school it was already engrained in my personality to keep them at a distance. It was quite a shock - good and bad - to find out what "other people" were like. And the only form of "relationship" I knew was that tightly controlled "enmeshment" - that drove so much of the "free" part of me, inward where no one could see & criticize it. It was SAFE there. I didn't have "normal" skill sets for interacting, trusting vs maintaining boundaries or any of that.

I ended up making it up as I went along. Reviewing that with the "condensed" perception that was/is Twiggy, helped a good bit. She could see how she would've made different choices - if she had that experience guiding her THEN. She stopped blaming herself so much... feeling unworthy... bemoaning the things she didn't have or missed out on... and stopped putting the kibosh on my adult attempts to nurture myself, and spread my wings a little... let go.

Sure, it's still there and a work in progress. Just this morning, the problem was thrown up on my mental "white board" as being the different experience between believing/feeling "I can't"... and "I can"... and nothing bad will happen. I have those conversations and negotiations with myself even about going to the grocery or going out to fill gas cans for the mower. An adult doesn't do this, I think to myself. But a very scared & anxious & performance-conscious 12 yr old DOES.

My whole endeavor here on the "farm" involves dealing with that one "little" (Hahahaha) problem. Sorting it out once and for all.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 15, 2017, 05:08:13 AM
Just checking in quickly with a little bit of good news - have started the first benefit related form - 50 sections spread over 42 pages - and discovered that, because we check 'no' to quite a lot of boxes (due to his health improving) there are whole sections that I don't have to fill in at all.  So only about half the amount to do that I originally thought :)  Has cheered me up no end! :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 16, 2017, 03:52:41 PM
Some thoughts from the weekend:

I need to 'get on' with stuff, instead of thinking and planning it endlessly.  Ie, the benefit form that I have been worrying about is, in fact, nothing to worry about, but I didn't know this until I got on with it.  More action, less thought.

I have a funny need to be in some way special or noticeable, but at the same time feel I shouldn't be better than anyone else or make anyone else feel inadequate because I can do something better than they can.  No prizes for guessing where this comes from.  I am really trying to focus on just getting on with things and not thinking too much, whatever it might be.

Boundary setting - I am doing quite well with this.  Examples - friend who has been wanting to get together for ages but keeps failing to confirm a date.  There was a chance that the tickets would sell out so I booked for myself and my son today and messaged her again to tell her we'd booked up and she'd need to soon if she wants to get tickets.  It's on one of three possible dates that she'd given me and really she should have let me know by now; I've chased up three times and still not had a definite answer so we are definitely going, I don't know about her :)  Annoying lady at my son's sports club; always in a crisis and always wants everyone else involved - I managed to politely palm her off onto someone else and go and hide behind the shed to drink my coffee :)  Various people who want to tell me all about their ailments - I am done with ailments!  Am practising the art of saying 'I hope that gets better' and then vanishing.  I am aware that could be construed as being selfish but I am just worn out with everyone else's health problems - I want to hear some fun stuff!

What to do with myself once my son is at college - I have been thinking about this because nothing is really making me think 'yeah - I want to do that!'.  I think it's been so long since I've done anything that I've just forgotten what it' like.  One of the carers we see regularly is a fitness fanatic and he does a lot of events for charities.  He's part of a really lovely community; it seems that having that common theme has opened a lot of doors for him and the people he knows are all very active and keen to help other people out.  It appeals to me.  So I think I might work on my fitness, with a view to doing some sort of charity event.  I think that might be good to aim for.

I did realise I'm still over thinking my son's college application.  There are two parts.  An initial request, which is very simple - basically a template letter that you just add your own details to.  Then they ask you to submit information at a later stage.  I've been trying to cover every angle and wanted to write everything up before sending in the initial letter.  I realised that is still me over thinking and trying to control the process so - deep breath - I'm going to just send in the initial request and then wait to see what happens next.

I do find it hard not to keep thinking ten steps ahead.  Home was so scary when I was younger that you had to guess what was coming in order to avoid it.  And then all the abuse allegations with my mum - she was ahead of me every stage of the process, so everytime I met someone they'd already been told I was mentally ill and abusing my son.  I have got to leave that behind and focus on now, just work on my own little bit and let other people do their bits.  I also need to learn to listen more and be more open minded.  I've felt I've had to fight so hard to keep him safe for so long that the minute someone doesn't say exactly what I want them to I panic and go into defense mode.  I've got to pull that back, keep calm, listen, keep in mind that their questions don't mean they're trying to catch me out, they're just trying to understand the situation better.  That's a big problem for me and I do need to overcome that.

So - those are my thoughts for now.  I'm very tired!  My brain is aching but I feel like I've worked through another chunk of 'stuff'.  Thank you everyone for all of your help and support and for just being there xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on July 16, 2017, 08:28:34 PM
Quote
their questions don't mean they're trying to catch me out, they're just trying to understand the situation better.

Yes! I think this is big. If you go in with a defensive posture, you react to questions with fear, and fear on your face makes you look guilty. (Which of course, you're the opposite of.) And you've spotted it and declared your intention to leave that old nervous reflex behind. (You may feel some, but you've spotted it as inauthentic to the present.)

You've GOT it. Such super insight. You've turned the corner and brought your adult self into the light, and are giving her some ordinary breathing. Rather than panting in anticipatory terror of a threat that isn't there.

Bravo, Tupp! I so admire how determinedly you've dug and thought and dug some more in order to understand yourself in the present and give yourself and your son the best possible life.

Wow.
love,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 16, 2017, 09:37:01 PM
Quote
their questions don't mean they're trying to catch me out, they're just trying to understand the situation better.

Yes! I think this is big. If you go in with a defensive posture, you react to questions with fear, and fear on your face makes you look guilty. (Which of course, you're the opposite of.) And you've spotted it and declared your intention to leave that old nervous reflex behind. (You may feel some, but you've spotted it as inauthentic to the present.)

You've GOT it. Such super insight. You've turned the corner and brought your adult self into the light, and are giving her some ordinary breathing. Rather than panting in anticipatory terror of a threat that isn't there.

Bravo, Tupp! I so admire how determinedly you've dug and thought and dug some more in order to understand yourself in the present and give yourself and your son the best possible life.

Wow.
love,
Hops

Thank you Hops, that means a lot, I have been digging!  And it's given me a headache, lol.  I had a minor situation this evening - the friend I mentioned (who hadn't got back to me re meeting up) got in touch to say she couldn't do what we'd originally planned but did I want to do something different the day before.  What I realised I need to do is not focus on what the other person is doing, but focus on the way I react (and people have been saying that to me for years, but I've only really just got it).  My internal response was anger, sadness, wanting to lash out, my mind saying 'every time - this happens every time' and really focusing on the other person - which is the bit I can't control.  But what I need to focus on is how I react to the situation, not what the other person's behaviour makes me feel, and I reacted well - I set a boundary in place and that's one of the things I'm working on so that's good.  And that helped push the 'younger Tup' emotionally response out of the way so I think I'm starting to get the hang of it.  Practise, practise, practise lol xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on July 17, 2017, 08:08:20 AM
The headache goes away Tupp... but the realizations and "open door" in front you for doing things differently doesn't. "No pain, no gain" as they used to say about exercise... LOL.

It does sound as if you're moving into a better space now about this whole process. It has always helped me to think of things like that as an adventure, a voyage of exploration and discovery - instead of "more the same crap" and dreading things. Parts of an adventure can be challenging and difficult - but also really fun and rewarding too! Being open to seeing those opportunities, instead of expecting the most awful things without variation, makes a difference.

One of the worst things about growing up with an n-mom, is experience and painful knowledge that no matter WHAT you do, what you try, how much you pretzel yourself into something you're NOT - in an attempt to generate that normal parent-child relationship... NOTHING changes. Until you just give up trying. "Try" is an important stage in working out of rut of despair... "try" makes it easier to "just do" later. And realizing that you're just fine, no matter what other people choose to be like, do or feel in response.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 17, 2017, 01:43:29 PM
Will catch up on replies later but just wanted to say, very quickly, that it is done :)  I've two large envelopes to post tomorrow, one is the first batch of benefit applications and the second is his college application (or the first part of the process, at least).  Will post both tomorrow morning.  Feel excited now rather than nervous.  Thank you so much for all of the support :) x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on July 18, 2017, 10:44:04 PM
How exciting, Tupp.  You've completed something to that felt daunting and scary!  Whoo hoo!

:: Doing the Snoopy dance::..

Yes!

Pat yourself on the back, my dear.  You did it😁
Light
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on July 18, 2017, 11:39:21 PM
Backwhacks1000

 :D

Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 24, 2017, 03:31:57 AM
Hey, y'all (I'm practising being American, lol) :)

Just a little update.

Thank you for all help, support, advice and words of encouragement.  It means so much.  Thank you.

I have been feeling pretty flat and listless.  Lacking in energy, direction and motivation.  I am beginning to see that operating from a place of desire, ambition and healthy construction is very different to living in a way that minimises and manages fear, both real and imagined.  I'm 44 next month and pretty much everything in my life has either been a reaction to a frightening situation (much in childhood that then became ingrained in who I am and became part of my adult life) or a reaction to dealing with a circumstance.  There's very little I've chosen to do and then gone after.  And I'm not even entirely sure what I want at this stage in my life, after fifteen very long years at home looking after my boy.  So I think perhaps I should just try to 'do' my day and notice what feels nice and what doesn't.  And then do more of the nice stuff and less of the not so nice (apart from eating biscuits - always nice but not good for the tum).

In other news - a distant cousin is visiting the country and has been meeting up with various relatives.  Pics appeared on Facebook and there was a picture of my mum, out having lunch with some distant relatives.  I didn't realise it was her at first, it was only when I read the description of who was in the photo that I saw her name and went back.  She looked so well - pretty, relaxed and happy.  And what has occurred to me since is that I didn't have a negative response to that photo - or any kind of response, really.  I saw a picture of a group of ladies out having a nice time.  I think this is a sign of healing :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on July 24, 2017, 06:41:43 AM
Tupps - you put forth great effort to tackle all the son's applications - from a different place, than in the past. You proved to teenaged Tupp, that you COULD do that - you aren't forever stuck "doing what you've always done, the way you've always done it".

That causes a reaction for me; kinda sounds like you've got a touch of it too. I call it "whiplash" - in that "I've done it now; I'll surely be punished" - for stepping out of the only so-called "safe" way of being, that while not fun, satisfying or exciting - was safe. Be glad you're only dealing with sort of a blank space, till you've rested up from the energetic push through. It could be worse (it has, for me, at times).

After a few days of R&R - just doing the basics - you'll bounce back. What kinds of things would like to pursue just for you? Do you have an inkling?
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 24, 2017, 09:38:30 AM
Yes, I think you're right, Skep.  It's funny how things affect you; I feel like I've been climbing mountains but the actual physical work involved in filling out that paperwork was a few hours.  I'm working on feeling grateful - grateful I've got a sofa to snuggle down into, a cat to cuddle up with, an amiable son who's happy to do his own thing while I rest or get on with something else.

With regards to what I'd like to do - well, I've been mulling that over in my mind today.  What I realised is how lonely I feel, and how much I want to talk to people, but only certain kinds of people!  I really want open, intelligent conversations - not with everyone I meet, but I want (mostly) positivity, a willingness to learn, open mindedness, humour!  I have cut myself off from a lot of people because I just couldn't cope anymore with the endless complaining or the questions about my son or the grumbling about politics, etc, etc, etc.  So I do need to start getting out there more and going into situations hopeful of meeting like minded souls but not falling apart at the seams if my ears are burning from another racist rant twenty minutes later!  I think this will get easier once my son's in college and he has a regular carer so that I can go off and do what I fancy without worrying about him.

I think I'd love to go back to college and do further study as well.  I enjoyed Uni so much - I loved that structure of having a framework but being free to do what you wanted within it.  That sort of thing really suits me.  So that's something else I'm going to look into.  And I think I need to look after my body better - I ache all the time!  I might book myself a massage or something :)

Anyway, how are things with you?  How is everything going with the house (and the two kittys!)? x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 26, 2017, 10:48:02 AM
Plodding along.  I am having some quite strong flashback type experiences at the moment.  Keep waking up and thinking I'm in my old room at home and my stepdad is at the door.  I'm trying to practise yoga daily and I've been using a nice series I found on YouTube that focuses on the different chakras.  I was working last night on the root chakra (said to be related to feeling safe and letting go of fear, amongst other things).  I had a huge emotional release after seeing an image in my mind of me, as a teenager, in my bed at home.  Literally lying on the floor, sobbing.  Obviously stuff is working its way out and I'm trying to let it, but I do find it so tiring.  Currently resting up as we have a busy day tomorrow and I don't want to be too tired too early on :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on July 27, 2017, 09:53:02 AM
We're pretty well into the thick of summer heat & humidity here Tupp. It's unbearable just to breathe some days. But Monday was so chilly I needed long pants - so I mowed the big field (to my satisfaction) where the garden barn, garden and some orchard is going. Contractor said he'd be here today or tomorrow, for sure... but we have several days of rain setting in this afternoon so I'm not holding my breath.

He's had all kinds of excuses why he a) didn't get out to look at the spot I want the concrete for the barn between Feb - June. And since then, about why he hasn't started here. My last call to reach him, I told him if he was too busy I could call someone else. Gave him an easy out. The most he could do in the rain, is bring in and spread the gravel base and build forms. I don't see him pouring and trying to work concrete till it dries off again. I'm frustrated and disappointed and even the window contractor has been awol; I know he's waiting on siding though - and they've already made a lot of progress. Windows and doors won't get delivered for another 3 weeks. Then, I'll be wishing for them to go away, so I can have my solitude and peace/quiet back. LOL.

Queenie came in one morning this week. I instantly had a big ball of fur to clean up that went flying. Mio-mio is quite recovered - and it's partly due to the challenge of Queenie. Mio is still pretty much velcro'd to me though. So I have indoor/outdoor guard cats. LOL. Queenie is going to get to come inside this winter - if I have to lock mio in a room to do it. She has a really thick coat, even now, but I'm a softie when it comes to critters.

I'm sorry you're having flashbacks, kiddo. Those aren't ever pleasant. But they do have to come out in the open sunshine and fresh air where you can deal with them, once and for all (hopefully!).
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 29, 2017, 06:45:54 AM
We're pretty well into the thick of summer heat & humidity here Tupp. It's unbearable just to breathe some days. But Monday was so chilly I needed long pants - so I mowed the big field (to my satisfaction) where the garden barn, garden and some orchard is going. Contractor said he'd be here today or tomorrow, for sure... but we have several days of rain setting in this afternoon so I'm not holding my breath.

He's had all kinds of excuses why he a) didn't get out to look at the spot I want the concrete for the barn between Feb - June. And since then, about why he hasn't started here. My last call to reach him, I told him if he was too busy I could call someone else. Gave him an easy out. The most he could do in the rain, is bring in and spread the gravel base and build forms. I don't see him pouring and trying to work concrete till it dries off again. I'm frustrated and disappointed and even the window contractor has been awol; I know he's waiting on siding though - and they've already made a lot of progress. Windows and doors won't get delivered for another 3 weeks. Then, I'll be wishing for them to go away, so I can have my solitude and peace/quiet back. LOL.

Queenie came in one morning this week. I instantly had a big ball of fur to clean up that went flying. Mio-mio is quite recovered - and it's partly due to the challenge of Queenie. Mio is still pretty much velcro'd to me though. So I have indoor/outdoor guard cats. LOL. Queenie is going to get to come inside this winter - if I have to lock mio in a room to do it. She has a really thick coat, even now, but I'm a softie when it comes to critters.

I'm sorry you're having flashbacks, kiddo. Those aren't ever pleasant. But they do have to come out in the open sunshine and fresh air where you can deal with them, once and for all (hopefully!).

Lol, the cats sound funny, Skep, it's funny how a bit of a challenge can perk one up a bit!  Ours has been much more vibrant and alive since we moved and I think that's because she's had lots of new cats to fight with, it seems to have given her her mojo back!  She and the chief Tom have called an uneasy truce now after many fights and will sit in the evening a few feet away from each other, both looking in opposite directions.  It's funny to see, they're like a divorced couple avoiding each other at a party :)

Contractors are difficult, aren't they, especially when you have to factor in weather conditions and I guess they have other jobs on the go so they have to balance out what they're doing as well.  It's not easy managing different people so I hope that gets moving along again fairly quickly.

The flashbacks have subsided again, I do think it's like a kind of purge; unpleasant at the time but I feel like another chunk shifted and has gone.  I emailed social services to ask for an assessment so that I can apply for some money to pay for a carer for my son.  It wasn't until I'd sent it that I realised I'd emailed social services without even thinking about it.  No worry, no panic attack, no spiral into "what if they come after me again and what if they take him away and they'll lock him up in a psychiatric unit and where's my passport we have to leave the country".  Just sent the email, they've replied with the info I need and it's all fine.  Funny how something so huge goes away and I didn't even realise lol.

I have realised I need to spend the next six months tying up loose ends.  I am at a loss as to what to do with myself without an endless round of strife and problems to deal with.  My son's health is improving, my health is improving, we have our secure tenancy now, no problems with the neighbours, no problems with family, annoying friends, dodgy men, drink, drugs or co-dependency issues (I still fall into it sometimes but I recognise it quickly and get myself back out again). I am very conscious of not drawing a load of strife to me; I don't want it but I'm so used to having it that it feels weird not to be constantly stressed and worn out by it all.  I can't really sort out working until the college date is set up and organised, so I feel a little bit in limbo at the moment.  So I think - continue to work on improving health.  Get flat decorated and keep garden tidy.  I'm going to sell our campervan - we're not using it enough to make it an economical vehicle and I think we'll use it even less once he's at college and I'm back at work.  Start swotting up with a view to going back to work and getting the brain going again.  Focus on getting out and about a bit more and having a bit of fun.  Just try to fill the void with good things and not bad ones :) x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on July 29, 2017, 01:53:44 PM
I wish I could set off fireworks over your back garden to celebrate that simple sending of an email inquiry, Tupp. That is just enormous. And I profoundly understand how some simple thing in a person's day can actually represent their own Oscar, Emmy, Tony or whatever the Brit version of a top award is.

It's lovely that you are so tuned in to the currents and ebbs and flows of your life that you actually can pause to recognize when something beautiful simply appears at your feet and you can simply pick it up. (I should get an award for strained metaphors; probably be a conch shell.)

What you describe about adapting to peace or the absence of emergency reminds me of how I first responded to my unexpected "retirement'. There were times of really disorienting emotional ups and downs. Transitions into new chapters are really tough. But despite the down or off times, one thing that's always accompanied you is your persistent, intelligent pursuit of understanding.

I really admire you, Tupp.

love,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on July 29, 2017, 02:46:05 PM
I wish I could set off fireworks over your back garden to celebrate that simple sending of an email inquiry, Tupp. That is just enormous. And I profoundly understand how some simple thing in a person's day can actually represent their own Oscar, Emmy, Tony or whatever the Brit version of a top award is.

It's lovely that you are so tuned in to the currents and ebbs and flows of your life that you actually can pause to recognize when something beautiful simply appears at your feet and you can simply pick it up. (I should get an award for strained metaphors; probably be a conch shell.)

What you describe about adapting to peace or the absence of emergency reminds me of how I first responded to my unexpected "retirement'. There were times of really disorienting emotional ups and downs. Transitions into new chapters are really tough. But despite the down or off times, one thing that's always accompanied you is your persistent, intelligent pursuit of understanding.

I really admire you, Tupp.

love,
Hops

Thank you, Hops, I really admire you, too!  And I love your metaphors, lol :)  Yes it is funny how something small can be so significant, it just didn't set off the waves of horror that it has done in the past.  Really strange that when you get past something huge it's barely noticeable - ten years of hideousness and it just sort of melted away on its own in the end.  And yes, the transitions are tough and I find that funny - when things are awful I yearn for peace but I find too much peace boring.  But very conscious of not filling it with drama.  I think part of what is difficult is that I find both myself and son need downtime after a busy day so my high octane racing around lifestyle is definitely a thing of the past.  I suppose that takes some adjustment to get used to as well.  We are getting there slowly.  I am still quite nervous about pushing my son too hard; his health is improving but I'm reluctant to over do it in case he relapses.  But we're pushing forward a little at a time and it's going okay :)  Would be nice if it stopped raining, though ;) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 01, 2017, 01:17:42 PM
A few more steps forward today.  I had to speak to the social worker about arranging an assessment for my son.  They take some brief details over the phone and then it goes to the 'Safeguarding Hub' who decide which department are best placed to deal with things.  My heart did skip a little beat when the word 'Safeguarding' was mentioned but it was momentary and other than that no real reaction or problems.  Sometimes my reactions are delayed so it may be that I freak out in a couple of days time but at the moment I feel fine.

I bumped into my niece and her four children today.  I stopped making an effort to keep in touch with them all a few years ago now, because of the lack of reciprocation, and as a result the kids don't know myself or my son and I don't know any of them.  One of them had a birthday yesterday (he was telling me) and I felt bad that I didn't even know when his birthday was and that, at the point he was telling me this, I couldn't remember his name!  I did start to feel guilty but then I corrected myself; I needed to cut back on people that didn't make any effort when my son became unwell and so a lot of people I used to be close to have fallen by the wayside.  It's just how it is; I can't be expected to make all of the effort in a relationship so sometimes those doors have to close.  The guilty feeling went quickly and again, no big emotional reaction.

I messaged another former friend today to wish her a Happy Birthday.  She's a former friend for the same reasons as my niece, zero effort on her part to keep in touch or visit while my son has been ill.  Again, mixed emotions, but after three text messages I realised we just have nothing at all in common; once we'd done the polite how are you, how's the family type questions there's nothing to say.  Again, it felt alright - not conflicted, not rejected, just something that was good in the past but isn't now.  I am realising it's alright to let go.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on August 02, 2017, 11:40:34 PM
Hi Tupp:

Paying attention is.....

::sigh::

is.....

sometimes harder than others.

It sounds like it's getting easier for you.  Less judgement, more acceptance of what is?  More turning away from what was, which frees up space for what can be, perhaps.  It goes in spits and spats for me.

You seem engaged in taking full measure of your life, and those in it.... to be gaining new perspective, and not getting knocked over by it.  When you do take a hit, it seems you get over it more quickly?

I'm just catching up with the board, and you sound pretty steady to me.

Acceptance. 

::nod::

Lighter
 
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 03, 2017, 02:25:03 AM
Hi Tupp:

Paying attention is.....

::sigh::

is.....

sometimes harder than others.

It sounds like it's getting easier for you.  Less judgement, more acceptance of what is?  More turning away from what was, which frees up space for what can be, perhaps.  It goes in spits and spats for me.

You seem engaged in taking full measure of your life, and those in it.... to be gaining new perspective, and not getting knocked over by it.  When you do take a hit, it seems you get over it more quickly?

I'm just catching up with the board, and you sound pretty steady to me.

Acceptance. 

::nod::

Lighter
 

Hi Lighter :)

Yes, I do feel pretty steady.  I'm finding I'm developing a bit of a 'f**k you' attitude to life at the minute - not in a selfish way, but in a more accepting way.  I've spent a long time trying to be perfect - living up to my mum's ever shifting goalposts and then trying to be a sort of perfect, well balanced, therapised sort of a person.  Now I'm feeling more that it's okay to just be myself, good and bad, and get on with it.

Funnily enough an old flame got in touch last night.  He does this from time to time.  Initially my reaction was my usual one - does he want to get back together?  Is this it?  Is he the one I've been waiting for all this time?  And then I started to think critically about it all and do you know what, I don't even particularly like this guy.  I find him quite narrow minded and boring.  I spent so many years being conditioned to do what others expected that the fact that he liked me was the reason I was into him - that and my desperate need to be loved and wanted.  But I realised that what I really want is a guy who gets me and wants what I want - more self improvement, more learning, more enriching experiences.  Not just work, pub, telly, repeat.  Nothing wrong with that but it's not what I want out of life.  I want more.  And yep, that felt okay.  In the past I've often felt like I get ideas above my station.  But now I'm starting to feel like everyone else's expectations of me were too low and I was right all along.  All good :)

How are things with you? x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on August 03, 2017, 02:08:10 PM
Tupp:
 
It's weird, but sifting through OTHER/OUTSIDE expectations and definitions is coming up for me on every thread.  I agree that you're likely figuring out what expectations are yours vs OTHER, as you mentioned. 

If self improvement is a tree..... perhaps figuring out what is OUTSIDE/OTHER vs INTERNAL/I would be considered the roots? 

Mapping out internal worlds is necessary.  It just is. 

I'm doing OK, Tupp.  I'll post an update soon, and not clutter your thread with it: )  Thanks for asking.

Lighter


 
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 03, 2017, 03:04:23 PM
Tupp:
 
It's weird, but sifting through OTHER/OUTSIDE expectations and definitions is coming up for me on every thread.  I agree that you're likely figuring out what expectations are yours vs OTHER, as you mentioned. 

If self improvement is a tree..... perhaps figuring out what is OUTSIDE/OTHER vs INTERNAL/I would be considered the roots? 

Mapping out internal worlds is necessary.  It just is. 

I'm doing OK, Tupp.  I'll post an update soon, and not clutter your thread with it: )  Thanks for asking.

Lighter


 

Definitely agree, I am really noticing how much of my worry/anxiety/deprecating self talk is all tied up with how I 'ought' to be and how I come across to others (and therefore how I can be judged by others and found to be lacking).  Up to me to knock that out of the way and to be brave enough to link up with people who will see past the superficial and take time to appreciate what lies beneath.  I find that level of intimacy frightening, I've realised, even though I crave it.  Something to aim for.

I had a telephone assessment with a social worker today - more formal than the one earlier in the week.  Had a bit of a negative spiral afterwards but noticed it, told myself that I will get reactions and it's fine, just carry on and let it be - and it subsided really quickly.  We're supposed to be going away in our van next week and I have decided not to go.  It's another aspect of me trying to live a certain kind of life.  The truth is I'm exhausted and the thought of spending a week sleeping in the van and not being able to have a bath fills me with horror.  Talked to my son and it transpires that he doesn't like sleeping in the van either.  So we're going to do days out instead and come home to a hot bath and a comfortable bed each night instead :)

Glad you are doing okay and look forward to reading your update :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 04, 2017, 08:23:49 AM
Another revelation/meltdown this morning - maybe prompted by talking to social services yesterday, I'm not sure.

I was tidying up the house as I have a friend coming to stay for the weekend.  My son's stuff drifts across every surface in every room.  He never puts anything away and I've never been a 'getting everything tidied up' kind of mum so it builds up.  I'd told him he could play on his computer game to keep him out of the way while I got on with what I needed to do, but when I went to go into his room to take his duvet in there he'd barricaded the door with toys, which I didn't see because I was carrying the duvet.  Not only did I hurt my foot walking into it all, everything hurtled across the floor and the space I'd cleared yesterday was covered in toys again.  I lost my temper and yelled at him to pick all the mess up, and to tidy up all the other rooms that are full of his stuff.  I stomped off to get more things to put away and when I went back into his room he was crying because I'd shouted at him.  He hates being shouted at and it really upsets him and he sat sobbing in my arms for about twenty minutes.  It was a horrible experience but we have talked about it.  He's agreed to tidy up his things more frequently and I've agreed to remind him to tidy up more often instead of ignoring it until it's really bad.

It did make me realise that I am simply trying to do too much and I am overwhelmed with it all.  I've a friend coming to stay so can't do much about it now but once she's gone home I'm going to have to sit down and try to work out a way to simplify a lot of what we do and get some routines in place so that the every day stuff gets done without it building up and causing problems.  I do need to look into getting some care for him on a regular basis because I'm so worn out with it all.  His activities in the evenings are a problem because I get so tired driving him about and having to sit and wait for him to finish what he's doing.  I also want to get rid of the van and get something smaller and more economical.

I've always resisted being the sort of person that has routines and days that things get done.  I used to know someone who wouldn't leave the house in the morning until she'd done her housework and got the evening meal ready.  I used to think it was very OTT and quite restrictive but I can see now how it helps to make life run smoothly and would help to keep things more manageable.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on August 04, 2017, 10:51:59 AM
Oh, ouch. What a very painful moment. I can imagine.
Your boy can understand...it's touching you wept through it together.
Parents who can apologize and be human are the best kind.

This anecdote reminded me of one time I lost it with my little D.
She was about 8, we'd been on our own after the divorce and I
was very, verrry stressed. She was yakking away in the car about wanting
this and that, just a whole free-associating endless list of wants, all of which
involved me buying or driving and she went on and on and suddenly
I roared at her, "I am not a cow!" and burst into tears. I had
never before (nor have since) yelled like that. We both sat there stunned
and I apologized...asked her if I scared her. I told her I'd scared
myself too. (I was just soooo stressed, as you have been, by the
endless-relentless FT work/$/parenting things I was trying to juggle without
having learned anything about my own limits, or the need for self care.)

We weathered it.

I'm glad you are so much wiser about causes and consequences;
and that you can see a better future. When you can see more freedom
in the future, especially after years of desperation and stress, I think the
very hardest years are those just before the freedom finally comes.
You can see it before you can reach it, and that's a trying time.

Extra self care gets urgent. Organizing helps too but not perfectionism.
You really are going to be okay, Tupp. Hang on to that faith....

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 04, 2017, 11:16:40 AM
Oh, ouch. What a very painful moment. I can imagine.
Your boy can understand...it's touching you wept through it together.
Parents who can apologize and be human are the best kind.

This anecdote reminded me of one time I lost it with my little D.
She was about 8, we'd been on our own after the divorce and I
was very, verrry stressed. She was yakking away in the car about wanting
this and that, just a whole free-associating endless list of wants, all of which
involved me buying or driving and she went on and on and suddenly
I roared at her, "I am not a cow!" and burst into tears. I had
never before (nor have since) yelled like that. We both sat there stunned
and I apologized...asked her if I scared her. I told her I'd scared
myself too. (I was just soooo stressed, as you have been, by the
endless-relentless FT work/$/parenting things I was trying to juggle without
having learned anything about my own limits, or the need for self care.)

We weathered it.

I'm glad you are so much wiser about causes and consequences;
and that you can see a better future. When you can see more freedom
in the future, especially after years of desperation and stress, I think the
very hardest years are those just before the freedom finally comes.
You can see it before you can reach it, and that's a trying time.

Extra self care gets urgent. Organizing helps too but not perfectionism.
You really are going to be okay, Tupp. Hang on to that faith....

Hugs
Hops

Thank you, Hops, I really appreciate your words and the story re your D as well.  We do lose it from time to time, don't we, and it is difficult when kids, in their own little world of toys and wish lists, conflict with our stressed out world of a million things to do and buy and being tired and alone, etc etc.  I do think apologising makes a difference and we are all human, after all (and like you, I don't shout very often, it was just such a build up today and I was so tired).

After all that I had another call from social services, the third in three days so my tolerance level has worn pretty thin lol.  They wanted to come out and do an assessment this coming Monday but I feel that is too soon for me.  Getting in touch with them has been a pretty big deal, as is going through this college assessment now (and I have a pile of paperwork I need to sort out with regard to that for next week).  I told her I couldn't meet until the end of the following week and she informed me that they have to do assessments within five days of a referral going through.  She sounded quite anxious about it which made me feel anxious (I like to deal with relaxed, confident people; past bad experiences have tended to be with people who are out of their depth and they focus it on the client rather than themselves, I have found).  Anyway, we have agreed to cancel this referral and I will call them when I want to reschedule it.  So I have practised being assertive, I haven't been made to go into a situation I would have struggled to cope with and it gives me time get my head together and get ready for it (I'll probably ring them in a couple of weeks once I've got the college paperwork sent off).

It did all feel like a bit of a tsunami today but it's alright, we've both weathered it, friend is delayed which has worked out quite well as I can get the dinner on before she gets here.  Feeling more relaxed now and want to spend some time thinking about making life simpler and getting things under control in a more routine way instead of having to have days like today where I have to do a massive clean up because someone is coming over.

Thank you for listening :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on August 04, 2017, 12:39:09 PM
You're doing great, Tupp. The assessment will be fine. I think you were wise to schedule a short buffer period to let your anxiety calm.

But then DO go ahead pronto and schedule it. It's just going to the dentist. Absolutely NOTHING will happen during their visit that is worse than going to the dentist. Not one thing. I promise. It's just different than the dentist.

You can handle it. You are doing GREAT. Because you are doing the RIGHT thing. Remember this (it's important). The assessment is happening because you are a great Mom who is doing the RIGHT THING for her child.

It is NOT happening because you are a terrible abusive parent who is about to be arrested. Remember--you tend to get those two situations mixed up. Just remember which one is the real one!

I am a great Mom who is doing the right thing for my child. (Repetez....)

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 05, 2017, 05:55:10 AM
You're doing great, Tupp. The assessment will be fine. I think you were wise to schedule a short buffer period to let your anxiety calm.

But then DO go ahead pronto and schedule it. It's just going to the dentist. Absolutely NOTHING will happen during their visit that is worse than going to the dentist. Not one thing. I promise. It's just different than the dentist.

You can handle it. You are doing GREAT. Because you are doing the RIGHT thing. Remember this (it's important). The assessment is happening because you are a great Mom who is doing the RIGHT THING for her child.

It is NOT happening because you are a terrible abusive parent who is about to be arrested. Remember--you tend to get those two situations mixed up. Just remember which one is the real one!

I am a great Mom who is doing the right thing for my child. (Repetez....)

Hugs
Hops

Thanks Hops ((((((((((((((x ))))))))))))))))))

I have made a note in my diary to book it, week after next.  I am aware that my anxiety makes me defensive - which in turn can make it look as if I'm doing something I'm not, or makes me sound hostile (ie, if someone asks me what would help, instead of giving them a clear list of practical suggestions I'll start sounding off about people doing their jobs properly, people not lying about me and so on).  I want to present calm, intelligent Tupp, not scared and afraid me so yes, this coming week I'll get the college paperwork out of the way and have a couple of quiet days and then I'll meet with the social worker the week after.

It will be fine, I'm pleased with how well I've done with it to be honest, I am starting to see things coming up as opportunities to work through something rather than just being so caught in it I can't see any way out.  So that's a definite improvement.  The other thing that will be helpful is that having this assessment done will help to protect us if my mum does cause any problems in the future, because we'll have had this contact and the opportunity to present ourselves as we really are, rather than my mum's batshit crazy version.  So it's going well.  I'm pacing myself, looking after my diet, doing my yoga and just generally keeping on top of things so it's going alright.

Thank you for the support, I really do appreciate it so much :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on August 05, 2017, 10:37:36 AM
Oh Tup...
Putting off the visit seemed prudent, as you're working out the bits and sorting them wisely to improve your experience when it does happen.   Good job handling that.

I remember yelling at my girls, when they were small... usually in the car when I was trying to turn left.  As I explained it to them, and apologized I remembered I was teaching them how to take responsibility, and apologize themselves.  It helped me feel better about it, but it's a terrible feeling, I know.

The good thing was discussing future solutions from each other's perspectives, as you did with your son.  This is progress, and you can work together to figure out new routines I hope.  To this day the girls will shhhh each other, and anyone in the car, when I'm turning left, lol. 

We're trying to get a handle on new routines as well.  There always seems to be so much to do, and that makes it difficult to relax, and play.

I hope your visit with friend is wonderful: )

Lighter





Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 06, 2017, 04:43:28 AM
Oh Tup...
Putting off the visit seemed prudent, as you're working out the bits and sorting them wisely to improve your experience when it does happen.   Good job handling that.

I remember yelling at my girls, when they were small... usually in the car when I was trying to turn left.  As I explained it to them, and apologized I remembered I was teaching them how to take responsibility, and apologize themselves.  It helped me feel better about it, but it's a terrible feeling, I know.

The good thing was discussing future solutions from each other's perspectives, as you did with your son.  This is progress, and you can work together to figure out new routines I hope.  To this day the girls will shhhh each other, and anyone in the car, when I'm turning left, lol. 

We're trying to get a handle on new routines as well.  There always seems to be so much to do, and that makes it difficult to relax, and play.

I hope your visit with friend is wonderful: )

Lighter

Ah, Lighter, driving with kids can be such a nightmare!  My son rocks a lot in the car and that is so distracting.  It's another thing that I realised stresses me out without me noticing it because it's so normal for us.  You just get used to what they do.

I think you are right, kids learn more from what we do, so teaching them that sometimes we don't handle things brilliantly but it's okay as long as you take responsibility and try to learn from that is a good lesson, I think.  I've noticed that already the place is starting to get untidy again so I think I need to put together odd times in the day to have a quick tidy up, to catch it before it gets too much.  I did sit down and write up a cleaning schedule, because a big part of the stress that day was having to clean the entire place before people arrived.  If I clean regularly (with son's help) then people visiting should only require a quick rub around, not an entire day's cleaning.

The friends coming to stay was interesting and highlighted some new things for me - how exhausted I am constantly (she put her son to bed at 8pm and I was ready for bed myself at that time as well!), how I am still trying to juggle too many things at once and how much easier some other people have it.  My friend is constantly focusing on her next nice thing - holiday, birthday celebrations, buying a new car etc.  She has her problems, of course she does, but she has lots of nice things to balance that out.  I am always focusing on the next thing I need to deal with, the next hospital appointment, the next pile of paperwork that needs to be filled in, the next task I need to steal myself for (ie, social services assessment).

So - I can't change my son's health, or the fact that I need to interact with the system a lot in order to deal with it.  But I can focus on getting some time away from him because I think that's really at the bottom of what I need.  A day out with him - even a nice day out - is still hard work, because he needs constant support and almost constant supervision.  So I do need some time away from him where I don't have to think about him or change what I'm doing to accommodate him.

The other thing that I realised is that I would really like to be at the top of someone's list of priorities.  Not, I think, because I need someone to care (although for a long time I think that was the case) but because I really would like a close relationship now with someone I really care for and who really cares for me - something healthy and nourishing to both of us.  That is probably a good sign of healing, I think :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 07, 2017, 02:56:49 PM
Well I pushed a little bit more again today and took my son swimming.  He hasn't been well enough to do that for about three years now and there is always the possibility that whatever we do might knock him for six and cause a relapse which I find scary but .......................... we went ahead and did it and he seems okay :)

I want to push ahead with changes.  More time in the real world, less time sitting indoors.  More positive, constructive thoughts in my head, less negativity and damaging self talk.  More time being me, less time being mum.  Picked up a timetable for the gym; if I can get some help with care for my son my first priority is going to be my own health so I wanted to look at classes.  Time to change, push forward, move away from this old stuff and start being braver and more proactive again :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on August 07, 2017, 05:22:04 PM
Ahhhh Tupp.... so much going on for you.  So many balls in the air.  So much to figure out, then commit to.

I so get it.

I don't have a special needs child, but I have 2 very different children who argue all the time.  My sister was saying how happy she was to have had only one child... and she said it in front of my girls.... bc they were driving her nuts on our long drives over the summer. 

::shaking head::..

I'm used to it, or more used to it than my sib.  SO annoying and distracting to hear non stop bickering, IME.

And then there's this.....
you deserve to have YOU back again. 
It's time. 
You aren't just Mum... you're Tupp, and everyone requires empathy, fellowship...... space, and time of their own.  You might not feel guilt over the thought of having that for yourself, but then again...
if you do.....
please remember that you're human, and all humans have basic needs they deserve....
NO...
they're obligated to tend to.
 
In order to tend to your son's needs, you must meet your own needs first.  The oxygen mask, and all that.

It feels like you're able to crawl out of your foxhole.... finally.... so crawl yourself out, Tupp.  I see you trying... striving.
 
I think we can both craw out of our foxholes.

I'm so rooting for you, Tupp.  Heck, I'm rooting for us all, ever the optimist; )

::nodding::.

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 08, 2017, 04:07:01 AM
Ahhhh Tupp.... so much going on for you.  So many balls in the air.  So much to figure out, then commit to.

I so get it.

I don't have a special needs child, but I have 2 very different children who argue all the time.  My sister was saying how happy she was to have had only one child... and she said it in front of my girls.... bc they were driving her nuts on our long drives over the summer. 

::shaking head::..

I'm used to it, or more used to it than my sib.  SO annoying and distracting to hear non stop bickering, IME.

And then there's this.....
you deserve to have YOU back again. 
It's time. 
You aren't just Mum... you're Tupp, and everyone requires empathy, fellowship...... space, and time of their own.  You might not feel guilt over the thought of having that for yourself, but then again...
if you do.....
please remember that you're human, and all humans have basic needs they deserve....
NO...
they're obligated to tend to.
 
In order to tend to your son's needs, you must meet your own needs first.  The oxygen mask, and all that.

It feels like you're able to crawl out of your foxhole.... finally.... so crawl yourself out, Tupp.  I see you trying... striving.
 
I think we can both craw out of our foxholes.

I'm so rooting for you, Tupp.  Heck, I'm rooting for us all, ever the optimist; )

::nodding::.

Lighter

Lighter, I'm rooting for all of us too, and so grateful to have met all of you and been able to learn so much from everyone else's experiences.  It gives me so much comfort to be able to come here, write down whatever is in my head and know that other people will have been through (or be going through) similar things, no judgement, no 'pull yourself together' statements or dismissive comments (which are often just through a lack of understanding or knowing what to say, I find).  So important to be able to talk to people who get it and who don't need you to explain everything you feel because they feel it too :)

So yes, crawling out of the fox hole, that's a good description, it feels very apt.  Crawling out, getting scared, hiding again, crawling back out, something good happens, and so on.

Yes I get the thing with arguing with siblings, we all get used to what we have around us all the time.  Other people can't cope with many aspects of my son, the rocking, the strange noises, the lengthy monolgues about single topics.  I'm used to is so it's normal to me, but my friend's two boys argue, probably like your daughters do, and it drives me nuts!  She's like you, she's used to it and doesn't tune into it constantly, we just become immune, I think, to the things we see and hear all the time.  My younger sister and I used to fight constantly, even about things we agreed on, I think it's just a sibling thing to do :)

Anyway, son is up and still seems fine from swimming, we'll go for a bit of a walk later.  We've been keeping on top of tidying up so the flat feels nice and clean.  I stocked up on healthy food yesterday so the fridge is full.  It's my birthday tomorrow :)  Friends have been asking me what I want to do to celebrate and in all honesty I want a quiet day, maybe the cinema in the afternoon, no rushing around, just a bit of time to take stock and focus on what I want more of over the next few years.  Improved health, more time for me, better understanding of hormones!  I'm definitely heading into the menopausal phase and it is causing problems.  I've tried conventional meds from the doctor and struggled with the side effects so I'm going to do more research and try to help myself more through diet and yoga/meditation type activity.  And maybe more vigorous exercise as well, I've read it helps with just about everything.

Anyway, onwards and upwards.  We have a holiday week this week, my chance to relax and not push myself or force myself to do things.  I am enjoying it already :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on August 09, 2017, 02:06:28 AM
Happy birthday, ((((Tupp!)))))

Quote
Friends have been asking me what I want to do to celebrate and in all honesty I want a quiet day, maybe the cinema in the afternoon, no rushing around, just a bit of time to take stock and focus on what I want more of over the next few years.  Improved health, more time for me, better understanding of hormones!

Here's a wish that you'll receive all of these gifts...and if the hormones don't cooperate, remember...they're Power Surges.

xo
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 09, 2017, 03:22:54 AM
Happy birthday, ((((Tupp!)))))

Quote
Friends have been asking me what I want to do to celebrate and in all honesty I want a quiet day, maybe the cinema in the afternoon, no rushing around, just a bit of time to take stock and focus on what I want more of over the next few years.  Improved health, more time for me, better understanding of hormones!

Here's a wish that you'll receive all of these gifts...and if the hormones don't cooperate, remember...they're Power Surges.

xo
Hops

Aw, thanks, Hops.  My power surges seem to be behaving at the minute, lol :)  It's early here, I've had some lovely, thoughtful (and funny!) gifts from friends, my son's up and appears to still be okay after the swimming so that's great.  I've started a health diary to try and keep track of my cycle and what I'm eating and drinking.  Coffee is on the list of things that needs to be replaced; I've bought some fancy herbal teas and coffee substitutes.  I think I need to start investing more in me.  Have always focused on what I can do for others and what others do to me.  Time to see what I can do for myself, I think.

Anyway thank you for the birthday wishes and I hope you are having a lovely day, too :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on August 09, 2017, 10:35:47 AM
Happy Birthday too, Tupp.

If you haven't seen ATOMIC BLONDE yet.... it's a great movie, IME. 

My sister says nightshade veggies give her hot flashes.... maybe she's sensitive to them, or you are?  Not sure, but food for thought.  My holistic MD gave me a cream to help with the flashes, but I never bothered with it. I don't like taking meds.  I find that strong emotions tend to bring on flashes.  And sleeping: /

I'm glad you son didn't get too tuckered out by the swim outing.  It must be very difficult to gage every decision, bc of his medical history, but also bc of the years in the foxhole.

 I think we need to evaluate that type of anxiety every once in a while.  Take it out, turn it over, and hopefully find circumstances warrant dialing it back a bit.

Lighter

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 09, 2017, 01:09:04 PM
Happy Birthday too, Tupp.

If you haven't seen ATOMIC BLONDE yet.... it's a great movie, IME. 

My sister says nightshade veggies give her hot flashes.... maybe she's sensitive to them, or you are?  Not sure, but food for thought.  My holistic MD gave me a cream to help with the flashes, but I never bothered with it. I don't like taking meds.  I find that strong emotions tend to bring on flashes.  And sleeping: /

I'm glad you son didn't get too tuckered out by the swim outing.  It must be very difficult to gage every decision, bc of his medical history, but also bc of the years in the foxhole.

 I think we need to evaluate that type of anxiety every once in a while.  Take it out, turn it over, and hopefully find circumstances warrant dialing it back a bit.

Lighter

Thank you, Lighter :)  The film has had good write ups.  We didn't venture out today as it's raining so hard here, I've watched films at home instead and we'll go another day :)

Yep, the anxiety is definitely related to 'bad mum' accusations as well.  Working on that.  It was a good step to take; we can get a discounted swim card because he's disabled so I'll sort that out now and we can go more often.

It's been a really lovely day.  I've had phone chats with a couple of friends, pressies and lovely cards, I've enjoyed not 'having' to do something because it's my birthday.  I've got a nice meal cooking, son is now watching his comedy show he likes and I think a hot shower is calling me.  Very glad we didn't go away now as the weather's so bad, we'd have been miserable camping in the van in this :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 09, 2017, 02:24:28 PM
I've been pondering today and I've realised I have got past the hurt of all the friends who vanished when my son got ill.  Birthdays are usually a big trigger for that, particularly as a couple of friends have birthdays around the same time so we often used to celebrate together.  But today I really did focus on the people that remembered, made the effort, phoned, sent a nice card.  I focused on them and not all the people that didn't bother.  And that felt good :) x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on August 09, 2017, 04:04:42 PM
Feels good even to read that, Tupp!
That's a wonderful, wonderful shift in focus.

Wowsers. With age DOES come wisdom.

xo
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on August 09, 2017, 09:50:19 PM
Congrats on celebrating with those you can count on, (((Tupp)).  That's one thing about struggle and crisis... you find out who your friends are.

About Atomic Blonde.....

not for the kiddies.

::shaking head::

You'll want to see that on your own, but great sound track, and super girl power vibes: )

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 10, 2017, 05:50:24 AM
Feels good even to read that, Tupp!
That's a wonderful, wonderful shift in focus.

Wowsers. With age DOES come wisdom.

xo
Hops

Funny when it finally happens, Hops, there's no big reveal or huge revelation - I just realised as I was washing the dishes that I hadn't stressed about the ones that went away and I hadn't tried not to stress about them, it just hadn't happened.

I do read and have read a lot of this 'your thoughts affect your mood and the world around you' type stuff and I have tried so hard to let certain things go or to put my mind to other things over the years.  But I am really starting to feel now that the old saying about time being a healer is true and that you do just have to be patient and allow a certain amount of healing to take place on its own.  I hadn't focused on anything in particular with regard to my birthday this year; in fact not planning things was partly a reaction to being disappointed in the past when plans didn't go very well.  And yep, there it was, I was counting my blessings rather than my missings last night and it felt good.

The other thing I noticed was that my sister met up with my mum yesterday; my mum was her usual nightmare self and again, if felt like I was listening to someone telling me something their mum did, rather than mine.  There just doesn't seem to be an emotional connection there any more - which is also nice.  I'm tired today, though, I think I ate too many cheese straws :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 10, 2017, 05:52:09 AM
Congrats on celebrating with those you can count on, (((Tupp)).  That's one thing about struggle and crisis... you find out who your friends are.

About Atomic Blonde.....

not for the kiddies.

::shaking head::

You'll want to see that on your own, but great sound track, and super girl power vibes: )

Lighter

Thank you, Lighter, yep, you certainly do, and I am lucky to have such good friends, here on this board and in the real world as well.  I have realised it's quality over quantity as well.  In the past I'd have felt a failure if I couldn't rustle up thirty people for a party; now I'd rather have a couple of hours with one person and really talk :)  Funny how things change.

Thank you for the heads up re the film!  Those kind of films always make me want to take up karate or something :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on August 10, 2017, 02:47:52 PM
Tupp:

About time healing  all

I was feeling good, and paying attention to what my definition of that was.....and then had 2 things hit me hard today. 

One was actually a good thing... DD16 seeing a holistic doc without me, she's out of State with family right now, and it was her choice to go.  All good, right?  Honestly, I wish I didn't have a conversation with the practitioner..... I'm half afraid DD16 will begin resisting bc I touched any part of this plan.

And I heard all the dx's from the past, and then some.  Scary Mercury poisoning, a type of Lyme's, liver function way down, gut, brain and body infection, and the list did go on and on with some surprising new info about how parasites are now viewed... they absorb toxins, etc.  They aren't the first place to start, blah blah like the last time we did this.  We begin with the metals, and this child has been through 20 IV chelation treatments, eaten jars of ziolite clay, swallowing 3 and sometimes 4 large handfuls of supplements a day...... oxygen chamber, antibiotics and probiotics..... then DD16 shut me down last year on everything, and I stepped away. 

With that, DD16 was eating all the poison junk normal N American kids tend to eat, and things are much worse than they were.  So much ground lost, and it tore at me deeply at every level to just listen and remain silent, pretty much, until asked a question.

I pondered how I went from feeling really good, to stressed like that.  Not the bottom dropping out chemical dump that threatened to put me on the floor this time, but some elevated discomfort and anxiety levels, for sure. 

Stressed in a way I felt I had some measure of control and choice about.  At one point in the conversation I said I wasn't taking notes, that DD would have to be on top of this, bc I had stepped away, and I realized.... I think I have stepped away.  I think I was saying to myself, rather than to them..... I do.  I started to take notes, what I'd normally do, then stopped.  DD will have to do this on her own, and I'll support if asked.  She has to ask.   

Oh.....I did agree to do a 10 day all veggie cleanse :shock:  It's almost impossible to change eating habits when other people are eating other things.  Maybe youngest dd15 will join.... I think she might do a version with us.

I apologize for writing all this HERE, Tupp, but I have to get it OUT, SO..... back to what I meant to say.

I noticed that things do get better with time, but it's also the distance from things, and changing the well worn pathways in our brains and switching on other parts, learning new coping strategies, and maybe actually SEEING which of our worst fears came true, and which didn't.  Which family member and friend betrayed us, and which didn't, kwim?  Not knowing stuff is behind us now on so many levels.  We have information... not knowing is part of being in the abyss, IME.

Those with huge attachment trauma have more obstacles to clear away.  Those with trauma of other types have their own unique paths to stumble along, but the stumbling is part of the cure..... what doesn't kill us absolutely can make us stronger, though it doesn't always I've noticed.

Apologies for going on and not starting another post here....

So, after I hung up with the holistic practitioner, a friend I've been worried about phoned.... sounded as bad as I feared he might.  I had a bad feeling a couple weeks ago..... he was struggling but didn't say it.  He's a recovering alcoholic, and this time really did try to kill himself with alcohol poisoning.... we talked about that.  . 

That was it for me..... I didn't try to be strong for him, I didn't try to fix him, like I didn't try to fix my DD16, and I just let him know how it made me feel.... I cried, and was mostly quiet.  I have no answers, and if he asks me for help, I'll give him my opinions.  He's not asking for help from me, he just needs to be heard.  I can do that, and not feel the NEEEEED to fix, which is growth for me.  ::nodding::

This is happening while I'm paying attention to my internal world, for the first time to this extent, and I note the differences NOW.

More surrender on my part, which lets me feel sadness and helpless rather than what I usually do.... mount a defense, do the research, then act..... try to fix.... try to mend and heal, and overcome.  Rush about, be busy, plan, execute..... yammer on, and try to feel heard, and helpful, etc.

::beating a dead horse, but has to be done::..

 I can't fix everything for everyone.  I can't fix my about to be 17yo DD, or my funny, THERE FOR ME NO MATTER WHAT, but very self destructive at times childhood friend who has years of sobriety only to crash and burn for a week now and then.  I can be there, listen, provide fellowship, and share what I've learned IF someone asks..... and that can be enough.  Whew... that feels OK.  No resistance.  I'm OK with that. 

The top of my head wants to come off, with the pressure I'm feeling, but my chest and stomach are pretty calm.  Usually this pressure lives in my chest and stomach.  Allowing myself to feel the sadness... helpessness.... surrender...... everything, and letting it catch me, has moved it to my head..... if I cry, it's better, so I cry.

With respect to self care, and healing....
It's funny how researching what to do is different than DOING it out of certainty that what I've always done IS FAILING ME.   

It feels different than trying on self care rituals, coping strategies, etc.... feeling better in the moment, though that might be the case. 

Dunn'o yet mate.

So, without editing, I'm posting this, and hoping it makes sense.... somehow it did when I wrote it.  Something about the fear of what we don't know.... of what we think could happen..... being betrayed, sidelined by evil people who lie, and cheat and harm our children in order to destroy us...... over and over in our darkest hours......
vs KNOWING the truth.....
is part of healing, I'm sure.

Along with learning from people we admire, and their journeys.... we also have more information, and less NOT KNOWING, kwim? 

I'm so proud of you, and me, and everyone here, Tupp. 

Lighter

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 10, 2017, 04:42:31 PM
Kids turning into adults is hard, Lighter.  I find it difficult to step back and, after so many years of breaking my back to give him the best start I can, WATCH HIM BUGGER IT UP!  So I can get completely that whack as you hear so much of what you've already worked to improve is back, and that admirable choice to step up if asked to, but to keep out of it if not.  It's hard watching them make mistakes, especially health related ones.  Diet is particularly difficult, I think, because you have to eat.  Other things - smoking, drugs, booze - you can eradicate from your life and avoid, but food is a daily necessity and it's soooooo hard to always make healthy choices - especially when you're young and all your friends are eating burgers and fries.

But .................... you've instilled good habits in her, and good sense.  She must be feeling poorly if she chose to see the doctor, I would guess?  So perhaps she'll undertake at least some of the advice some of the time.  Perhaps seeing the difference in how she feels will help.  But yes, I get how hard it is to step back, whilst also understanding how important it is to do so.

Sorry to hear about your friend as well, but good to read that you were able to listen without jumping in to rescue.  That's something I'm still working on.  But Lighter, I think this shows how far you've come, able to be a friend without being dragged under, being able to observe, notice, see how it affects you - without having to jump in and fix it all and tidy it up quickly.  I understand that feeling; it takes away the fear and the doubt if you jump in and sort it out yourself.  It takes strength to leave it where it is and see what happens next.

I hope the pressure starts to dissipate.  I don't know what to suggest for that.  My tension seems to sit in my neck and shoulders and I have a good yoga video for that.  That usually makes me cry, but getting out is what's important.  I hope it starts to go somewhere soon for you.

Feeling sad and helpless is hard, I think, because it's how I felt so much when I was a kid and there was nothing I could do but absorb it, and hide it.  You're right about coping strategies, we learn more and have more productive ways to cope so we can feel the sadness and know it's okay.  It isn't nice to sit with unpleasant feelings.  But necessary sometimes, I think.

More information, less not knowing, although maybe that ties in with less fear about not knowing?  So not knowing doesn't feel so bad?  Maybe not with kids.  Not knowing something for ourselves is easier than not knowing something for our children, I think. xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on August 10, 2017, 07:07:28 PM
Tupp.... I knew you'd follow that ramble of mine.

Watching my DD16 backslide with food, and supplements has been difficult, yes.  Now she's in much worse shape.  I can't change that.  She's going to have to work so much harder, but that's part of her journey.

Oh.... the third phone call today.  We were waiting on 4 already approved visas to be issued to family members..... been waiting for over 9 months now.  Trump changed everything and moved the goal posts.  I knew he would.   What fresh hell is this?

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on August 10, 2017, 11:45:16 PM
I can relate to the pain of knowing that you can offer your child a piece of advice that will absolutely, spot on for sure, improve their situation....and they may not take it. Even harm themselves.

It is absolutely excruciating but it does have to happen. The advice and instruction has to stop.

I feel for you.

Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 11, 2017, 07:34:12 AM
Tupp.... I knew you'd follow that ramble of mine.

Watching my DD16 backslide with food, and supplements has been difficult, yes.  Now she's in much worse shape.  I can't change that.  She's going to have to work so much harder, but that's part of her journey.

Oh.... the third phone call today.  We were waiting on 4 already approved visas to be issued to family members..... been waiting for over 9 months now.  Trump changed everything and moved the goal posts.  I knew he would.   What fresh hell is this?

Lighter

Ah visas sounds like a nightmare to get sorted, I'm just in the process of applying for Irish passports for myself and son (due to my dad's ancestry) so that we can stay in the EU once Great Britain opts out.  I imagine the paperwork is difficult for visas, particularly if they've changed things, always takes longer to get new systems in place and up and running.  Hope it doesn't take too much longer.

Yes watching them lose ground and a lot of effort go to waste is hard, but we all have to learn through our mistakes (and I tell myself that each time I can't do a pair of trousers up, losing weight is a lot more work than avoiding gaining it is but still I keep doing it!).

My son did similar with his physio, wanted to do it on his own so I agreed and the probably six, eight weeks later noticed he was getting a belly, which was odd as his physio is very core based and he'd been starting to develop muscled abs.  So I was a little underhand and spied on him next time he did his exercises and the bugger was just sitting there counting so it sounded like he was doing the reps for each exercise but in actual fact he was watching telly with the sound down!  Now back to me supervising him but yes, it takes longer to get back and it's frustrating but part of their growth - we all do it.

Something that did occur to me a while ago is that I do conflate my childhood with his.  No-one cared enough to make sure we cleaned our teeth, ate healthily, did homework, exercised and so on.  So in my head I cross enforcing that sort of thing with loving him.  I think that's why I've found it hard to step back and let him choose, it's almost like I'm saying I don't care about him.  Which is my issue, not his, but I do find that sort of thing a bit of a grey area and a bit tricky to navigate.

Anyway, I hope the pressure has eased a little, Lighter, and that DD starts to get her head around it all and make a bit of progress.  You've laid great foundations, I guess it's down to her to decide the best way to lay the bricks :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 11, 2017, 12:47:08 PM
Well today I have been practising letting go and trying not to feel guilty.  I am also trying to resist the need to prove myself constantly, as if I need to justify my existence by doing something incredible on a daily basis.  I'm trying to rest instead of propping myself up with caffeine and sugar and trying to focus more on the basics - like housekeeping and grocery shopping - and less on the grand gestures like trying to write a book or landscape the garden.

So - I find resting tinged with guilt and I need to work on that.  I feel guilty if I don't constantly fill my son's day with dazzling things to do.  I feel guilty that I haven't 'cured' his disability or produced a disabled child with an amazing skill that will 'save' him from a mediocre life (yes, I know that's ridiculous, I am working on it :) ).

I feel guilty that my house isn't a show home, that my garden isn't immaculate and that I didn't fulfill my dreams of doing up our old campervan and heading off on adventures.  I feel guilty that I don't have the same toned, size eight body that I did when I was 19 and that my hair isn't perfectly dyed to cover the grey.  I feel guilty that I haven't had an amazing relationship with a man and provided an amazing step-father for my son.  I feel guilty that I don't have the boundless energy that I once did and that my own health is precarious enough now for me to have to be mindful, on a daily basis, of what I'm doing and how I'm doing it.

I feel that I should have been able to find a way to combine a money making career with raising my son and that somehow everything should have magically fallen into place.  And because it hasn't, I feel I shouldn't be taking an afternoon nap :)

Isn't it silly?  Guilt is one of the most pointless emotions, I think, and yet such a strong one, and one that is hard to shift.

Logical responses are - my son is now at an age where he needs to learn to look after himself more and do more of the things he enjoys without my constant badgering to try something new.  His autism means he likes repetition and he enjoys watching the same film endlessly.  I need to let that go, focus on the miriad of skills I have taught him and let him ease into the state education system again and just let him be him.

I have felt shame at him being disabled.  I know that is stupid but we were treated so badly when he was young (when I was trying to get help for him) that it was as if I had committed some sort of terrible crime and all these people were coming after me for it.  The attitude towards the disabled in this country is disgusting; they've been stripped of their rights over the last seven years, disability hate crime has risen dramatically and many disabled people are living in terrible conditions because their care packages have been cut and they can no longer get the help that they need.  It's a terrible situation and one that I wouldn't wish on anybody.  I have/am struggling with the fact that he will (likely) need full time adult care, largely because it just doesn't exist in any real way anymore, and I don't have the money to pay for it.  I need to focus a lot more on pride at what we've achieved and the fact that I've raised a healthy, happy young man who has good self confidence and good self esteem.

It's ridiculous for me to feel that my flat should be stunning.  We've not lived here very long and I have done a lot in the time that we've been here already.  It did/does need a lot of work and I'm doing it as time and money allow.  It's warm and cosy, we have everything we need and I should focus on that instead of what I haven't done.  The same applies to the garden; I've done huge amounts of work out there already but it was so overgrown in places that it isn't obvious I've done a lot, because it simply looks tidy.

And so the list goes on.  I do feel that being constantly ignored and overlooked as a child meant i had to try and grab attention wherever I could and I think that still resonates.  I don't feel like being me is good enough, I need to be something extra special.  And at the same time I know that's nonsense (and I know that there are people in my life who do think I'm extra special).  So more work needed on making the logic match up with the feelings :)  You can tell I've rested today, I've had time to think and work out what's going on in my head :) x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on August 11, 2017, 03:18:05 PM
Hops.... it's intensely comforting to read your words on not directing our kids anymore.   Thanks.

Tupp..... your last post.... I could have written it myself.  Similar issues, not identical, of course.

Guilt sucks. It's the thing that wraps around panic, and fear.... maybe.  So many SHOULD HAVES, and those aren't great either. 

It's rainy here today.  I have much to do, and that's OK. I don't want to get on a very high slippery roof, but I might do some pressure washing.  I cooked chicken, dd15's favorite.  That felt good.  I take pleasure in puttering around the house finishing projects that used to vex me.  The outdoor shower door was repaired yesterday, and Monday the valve gets replaced.......  Just needed a part, not an entire unit.  Yay.

We can only do our best, Tupp.  All of us.  At some level I know everyone does their best, no matter how dreadful, and I don't have to think about it past that.  At least, not if I want peace. 

I can accept that I'm doing my best too.  When I can do better, I will do better.  I work to improve my chances, skills, and attitude.  Make plans when I'm feeling strong, then  be prepared to change everything as life unfolds without engaging in the SHOULD HAVES, or HAVE TOs or the NNNNNEEEEEEEED TOs, kwim?

There's already a lot to do.  The negative, self defeating stuff is something I'd try to talk everyone I care about OUT OF.  Now I have to figure out how to stop doing it myself.  I can see clearly how it would benefit everyone AROUND me. 

It sure feels good when I'm comfortable in my head, busily working to achieve what's important TO ME, and not those around me all the time.  No static.  No freezing up.... just clear, bright being in the moment.

Today I'm paying attention to what it feels like to  DEAL  with the discomfort of others, and not save them.  To not act.  How it fuzzies up my thinking, and shuts me down.  It's information I need right now, and I don't view it as bad or good.  It's just how my brain works, and I can widdle down my own internal structures, edit out those of others, and get used to what what's left. 

I liked me when I was 30yo.  I think of myself as selfish, when I think of me when I was 20, and 30yo, but I don't think I was selfish.  I think I've been TOLD I was selfish through the years, for different reasons.  Maybe I even told myself... I'm not good at asking for help, or receiving it either.  Strictly out of my comfort zone.  I never figured out how to give myself a break, or extend myself the same compassion I automatically hold for others.   Such lofty standards I wouldn't hold anyone else to, kwim?

 Now I have to figure out how to sift through, and sort what's mine and what's theirs.... what should be kept, and discarded....

then CHANGE habits...

then CHANGE well worn brain pathways to create lasting change. I can feel anxiety ratchet up.

 I want to tack on "AND I SHOULD do it all while NOT judging myself."  I think I'll just leave it at this....

I'll do my best to observe, and not judge.  To pay attention to the negative feelings as they come up, but not banish them... just give them space, and let them know they belong here too.  When I do that..... there's a release of tension... not an avoidance of tension.

  That's where learning takes place.   

Well, another look at healthy boundaries, but with more information this time.

The journey continues: ) 

Lighter




Lighter







Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 13, 2017, 03:37:12 PM
Yep, I think figuring out what is your stuff and what is someone else's stuff is hard, Lighter.  Where do we end and begin?  What's important, what isn't?  I think it's hard where the kids are concerned, because you put yourself on hold to look after them for so long and then you can't remember which bits are yours!  And it's hard when putting in healthy boundaries or taking care of yourself leads to other people saying you're selfish, that's definitely one I've struggled with over the years.  I do find it helpful to imagine I'm advising a friend rather than myself - as you say, we tend to be more compassionate to others than to ourselves.  But it's being able to do it in that moment when things are stressy or demanding and you're just trying to keep up.  Being able to detach and question yourself a little is difficult at those times.  Practise, practise, practise (that's what I keep telling myself!).

Today I wrote up the info for my son's college application.  It needs to go into the post tomorrow, I have procrastinated and fussed and layed on the sofa being tired and having a headache for days but this afternoon there was no way out so I got on with it and it's done.  They ask for early years info and I started writing up that I'd suffered from depression and that led to ............................ and then I thought, no, this isn't relevant, this is me explaining myself and trying to justify my own existence.  Being depressed played no part in his problems and it certainly isn't relevant now.  So I deleted it all and just wrote about where he's at now and what I think the next steps need to be, and where I think we'd like help.  It's sat ready to be posted and once it was finished I felt like I could laugh, not just because it's 'that job' out of the way but because this whole 'mum being a nightmare and controlling my life' era is coming to a close.  She's not involved now and the more I push on with it the more I realise she really can't do anything now (some minor inconvenience, perhaps, but nothing major).  A definite corner has been turned.  I have got a banging headache but I think that's from being on the computer half the day so a decent night's sleep should sort that out :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on August 14, 2017, 01:57:23 PM
Tupp:

Whoo.... that job done, and out of the way, YES.

On getting things done... my father always said "If you don't get it done before 10am, you can forget getting it done." 

For better or worse.....  perhaps power of suggestion, that's been my life.  If I get up, get coffee, and begin puttering away at my list early in the morning, without distractions in early morning hours..... it's always always been true. 

Sometimes I put on music or a movie I know by heart for background noise... sometimes not.

The early morning start is always the better start for me.  Every time.... before anyone else is up.   

About coming to the end of an era... where we can be harmed by the PDs through government agencies..... the courts.  It has to end at some point. I believe it's over now.  I hope it is.   

I think we could have moved on in a quasi normal fashion had we been allowed to through the years. 

Lighter

 


Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 14, 2017, 02:54:14 PM
It is out of the way, Lighter, posted it this morning so they should receive tomorrow and have ringing social services on this week's to do list.  I have felt dreadful today - very disconnected, bad head, upset stomach.  But I didn't have much to do so it's fine, I've caught up on TV and emails and pottered about a bit.  Another bit of something shifted I think.  I'm looking forward to my bed tonight.

Yes I find I can get a lot more done early in the morning without interruptions.  It makes the day go more smoothly to have a lot crossed off early on, although conversely I also find late evening good for getting little bits and pieces tied up and sorted out.  I'm still keeping on top of the flat with regular tidy ups, son has been very good :)

Yes, I think it's over now.  Battle scarred and weary but we fought the dragons and won.  I think it's a new beginning.

And on that note - I signed up to a dating site.  I've stated that I just want to chat, getting out is still difficult but I would like to chat with someone sometimes.  There are an awful lot of people out there who can't hold a conversation, it seems, lol.  But one guy seems nice and friendly so I'm looking forward to getting to know him better.  Onwards and upwards :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 15, 2017, 03:51:37 AM
I had a bit of a realisation this morning.

For a long time now I have been aware that my favourite stage of life was University.  I loved learning, I loved being around such a wide range of people, I loved the thrill of the old buildings and I think what really suited me about it is that you can do your own thing but it's set within a framework.  For me that's perfect - space to grow and develop and do what suits me but without being completely without parameters, as I tend to find it difficult to know when enough's enough.

What I realised this morning was that I had two paths from Uni - I could forge out on my own, continue to make new friends and meet people, live in new places and see where life took me - or I could go home, back to what I knew and was comfortable with.  And I went for the second option.

Whether it was because I didn't have the skills or I was just too scared I don't know, but I went for option two, which was safer (or so I thought at the time, being blinded as I was to the dysfunction I was living in).  And then I got pregnant and surrounded myself with the same dysfunctional people I'd really flourished without and here I still am.

Next year it will be twenty years since I finished my degree and what that made me realise this morning is that I am finally ready to move forward.  Lol.  Worn out, clapped out and lacking the energy I once had, but definitely in a place where I feel brave enough to do it on my own and see what happens.  I'm not going to do anything concrete until my son's college placement is sorted out but there is a good Masters course that I'm interested in, mostly research based which I will really enjoy and it can be done part time as well so I could work and study.  I keep having that thing in my head of what I 'ought' to do as opposed to what I really want to do and the prospect of spending the next thirty years of my life in Universities really catches me, in a way that other things don't.  I'm also aware that my physical health isn't so great these days and I might be better off doing things that don't involve an enormous amount of physical activity.  I'd also like to be able to work beyond retirement age (largely because I've had to take this twenty year career break and it's really hit my pocket badly!) and academia would suit that, too.

Anyway - for some reason that just suddenly all made sense to me today and things feel clear in a way that they don't often, not in my mind, anyway :)  I actually think I feel a bit happy?  What does that feel like again, someone remind me :) Lol xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on August 16, 2017, 06:40:54 AM
Tupps, I spent about 15 years in higher ed as faculty, and also in support administration, mostly the latter. Landing a job in one of those student oriented department - admissions, registration, or even a clerical position - many times qualifies you for a tuition discount at that school - while offering a decent salary and BENEFITS. I was in IT and there were several reasons I absolutely hated that job (including my own N-boss)...

But I did find good people and friends there as well, too.
It's an option to consider, while you're planning a bit.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on August 16, 2017, 10:39:48 AM
Tupp:

The feeling that you're ready to move forward.... I get that. I think some of it's attached to being held hostage to threatening situations, but also to raising children in crisis. 

Moving forward, for me, would have meant leaving the kids behind on some level..... that might not make sense to read, but it was how it FELT to me.  I wish I could phrase it better, but there it is. Perhaps it's true for you too.  Perhaps not.  At some point, the kids are out of crisis.   

Breath..... look forward to moving ahead, and beyond. Let me know what those next steps feel like. 

I'm so happy for you: )

Lighter

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 16, 2017, 01:46:31 PM
Tupps, I spent about 15 years in higher ed as faculty, and also in support administration, mostly the latter. Landing a job in one of those student oriented department - admissions, registration, or even a clerical position - many times qualifies you for a tuition discount at that school - while offering a decent salary and BENEFITS. I was in IT and there were several reasons I absolutely hated that job (including my own N-boss)...

But I did find good people and friends there as well, too.
It's an option to consider, while you're planning a bit.

Skep, thank you, that's a great idea and something I will definitely look into :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 16, 2017, 01:50:43 PM
Tupp:

The feeling that you're ready to move forward.... I get that. I think some of it's attached to being held hostage to threatening situations, but also to raising children in crisis. 

Moving forward, for me, would have meant leaving the kids behind on some level..... that might not make sense to read, but it was how it FELT to me.  I wish I could phrase it better, but there it is. Perhaps it's true for you too.  Perhaps not.  At some point, the kids are out of crisis.   

Breath..... look forward to moving ahead, and beyond. Let me know what those next steps feel like. 

I'm so happy for you: )

Lighter

Lighter I will definitely keep you posted :)  I do feel like I need to leave him behind, or maybe more accurately he needs to leave me behind?  He's basically an adult now needing 24 hour care and I don't feel like his mum anymore, I feel like his carer - his over worked, worn out, lifeless carer.  And that isn't good for either of us so, first steps - hopefully some help from social services but if not I can stretch our money out enough to pay for an evening a month and that will do for now.  Hopefully college within the next few months and that will definitely be a big help.  And then going back to work, having some free time during the day and getting back to enjoying spending time with him again, because to be honest at the moment I'm too tired to enjoy being with him and I don't notice (and appreciate) all his funny quirks the way I used to.  So some degree of separation is needed for both of us.

I do feel very tired today, I think there are some big waves of revelation washing over me, but we have a really empty calendar for the next few weeks so I can rest and nap as much as I want to which is a real luxury :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 17, 2017, 04:43:21 AM
Three things popped up when I was doing my yoga this morning:

I mustn't be too good at this or make anyone else feel bad by being better than they are.

This is self indulgent, I should be hard at work doing something I don't like

If I start to get 'deep' into it I notice I pop out of it again quite quickly.  I think that's the hypervigilence thing; there's a little panic if I'm not on constant alert mode and it pops me back out.

Just trying to notice, let go and practise :) x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 17, 2017, 02:18:06 PM
Resisted the urge to rescue a friend today.  She has family and friends around her to help.  I felt my usual rescue mode coming on but I've resisted.  Feels a bit wrong but I know it's right :)  So am going with it :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sea storm on August 17, 2017, 03:54:01 PM
What an incredible story you have and it is remarkable that you are still standing, let alone thriving. There is so much going on in your thread that I hardly know where to begin. So......
You are feeling overwhelmed at the thought of changing because in the past you experienced being attacked by your mother at the deepest level. Her paranoia led her on a rampage of slandering you and placing you in a constant state of either war or defense. This takes it toll.  You can see the damage and the injustice of it and that is clear. You are not done in by it. Wow.

Toward the last post you mentioned that you are doing yoga and that is such great self care and a whole philosophy of getting out of your head and into the present moment. Considering all the mountains of crap and bullshit you have been through, this is like the light in the forest. Inexplainable but powerfully relevant. I find that yoga helps me in non verbal but very real ways that are pretty unpredictable.... like forming new pathways that lead somewhere good for me.

I worked with people with severe disablilities for about twenty years and we would read the reports on the clients history. To a point.  The medical part was important and life circumstances but there was so much less emphasis on PAST abuse. The parents would be very agitated and want us to know everything that had happened. However, that was the parent's perspective and it was important let the ship leave the dock. The dock being the parent. It would never happen that we would listen to a long narrative of agony.  There was not the time and it was more important to start the person entering the program on a new path. Just as you said that the personal relationships that you made at school were precious and nourishing to you, so it will be for your son. He will be entering a new culture and the whole culture pulls you along with the current.

There is no doubt that you have been in a complex and demanding situation where you were giving more than you were getting. I know you love your son and giving is good and all that but after awhile the cow has no more milk to give and that is it. Fortunately, your son will be going into a college for special needs adults and there are so many checks and balances and so much accountability that the staff are scutinized and no one can get nasty or take the whole show over.

At this point, it seems that you are terrified of the paperwork. You need an advocate to help you. Just answer what they ask you in as few words as possible. Don't share the abuse until you have established a solid relationship with lots of trust. In twenty years and through mountains of reports and recommendations, this abuse will only get a short paragraph. The rest is for you to deal with. The issue of your creating your son's challenges because in some demented Munchausen's way you forced your son to be developmentally delayed is one of the biggest mindbenders I have ever heard of. I am not sure but it sounds like you had to fight your way out of that onslaught of lies and misinformation and fight to keep custody of your child.  I hope you can validate yourself almost constantly and create new pathways in your brain through that trauma. Yoga teaches us about detaching, no clinging, no grasping, no regret, no explanations. You know about this so I hope I am not insulting you with advice.

I remember one mother whose daughter had anorexia. It was a life and death struggle for the mom and their whole family. The mother was Consumed by the problem. Somehow she needed to let the professionals do their job. Complete maniacs are rare in the helping profession at a certain level. There is the law and ethics that are very real and acted on. Mom being consumed didn't help and was way to much drama. She was a dear, dear soul and her love for her daughter was awesome but somehow the overparenting because of fear was not helping. Up to a certain point it kept her daughter alive.
But is was All about the mom sort of. As her daughter began her own path in the program, which included tons of socialization, mom could let go a tad and it was really good for both of them.

I hear you. You have been through a lot and you know you need to take care of yourself now. I hope it is in baby steps. Like putting on your running shoes as a start. Getting ready to run but contemplating and getting ready for it. Taking a huge challenge like a masters program is not baby steps. Maybe doing little things you love.

Wish I was there and we could go for coffee. You seem like such an  awesome person with so much heart.

Sea storm
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on August 20, 2017, 03:16:44 PM
Hi Tup:

You did so well with regard to noticing your thoughts, and choosing a response based on what's best for you.  Standing up to the way it FEEEEELS to resist helper mode isn't easy, IME.  It feels so bad.

I didn't do so well this week with that, but I'm working on it.

Regardless of our histories, being able examine choices, before jumping into rescue mode, is important. 

Being able to choose things that bring up discomfort is actually opportunity for growth. 

I need to begin viewing it that way.  The discomfort is growth, and opportunity, not something to be feared, and avoided.

Whew. Glad I got that straight; )

Lighter



Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 21, 2017, 10:07:35 AM
What an incredible story you have and it is remarkable that you are still standing, let alone thriving. There is so much going on in your thread that I hardly know where to begin. So......
You are feeling overwhelmed at the thought of changing because in the past you experienced being attacked by your mother at the deepest level. Her paranoia led her on a rampage of slandering you and placing you in a constant state of either war or defense. This takes it toll.  You can see the damage and the injustice of it and that is clear. You are not done in by it. Wow.

Toward the last post you mentioned that you are doing yoga and that is such great self care and a whole philosophy of getting out of your head and into the present moment. Considering all the mountains of crap and bullshit you have been through, this is like the light in the forest. Inexplainable but powerfully relevant. I find that yoga helps me in non verbal but very real ways that are pretty unpredictable.... like forming new pathways that lead somewhere good for me.

I worked with people with severe disablilities for about twenty years and we would read the reports on the clients history. To a point.  The medical part was important and life circumstances but there was so much less emphasis on PAST abuse. The parents would be very agitated and want us to know everything that had happened. However, that was the parent's perspective and it was important let the ship leave the dock. The dock being the parent. It would never happen that we would listen to a long narrative of agony.  There was not the time and it was more important to start the person entering the program on a new path. Just as you said that the personal relationships that you made at school were precious and nourishing to you, so it will be for your son. He will be entering a new culture and the whole culture pulls you along with the current.

There is no doubt that you have been in a complex and demanding situation where you were giving more than you were getting. I know you love your son and giving is good and all that but after awhile the cow has no more milk to give and that is it. Fortunately, your son will be going into a college for special needs adults and there are so many checks and balances and so much accountability that the staff are scutinized and no one can get nasty or take the whole show over.

At this point, it seems that you are terrified of the paperwork. You need an advocate to help you. Just answer what they ask you in as few words as possible. Don't share the abuse until you have established a solid relationship with lots of trust. In twenty years and through mountains of reports and recommendations, this abuse will only get a short paragraph. The rest is for you to deal with. The issue of your creating your son's challenges because in some demented Munchausen's way you forced your son to be developmentally delayed is one of the biggest mindbenders I have ever heard of. I am not sure but it sounds like you had to fight your way out of that onslaught of lies and misinformation and fight to keep custody of your child.  I hope you can validate yourself almost constantly and create new pathways in your brain through that trauma. Yoga teaches us about detaching, no clinging, no grasping, no regret, no explanations. You know about this so I hope I am not insulting you with advice.

I remember one mother whose daughter had anorexia. It was a life and death struggle for the mom and their whole family. The mother was Consumed by the problem. Somehow she needed to let the professionals do their job. Complete maniacs are rare in the helping profession at a certain level. There is the law and ethics that are very real and acted on. Mom being consumed didn't help and was way to much drama. She was a dear, dear soul and her love for her daughter was awesome but somehow the overparenting because of fear was not helping. Up to a certain point it kept her daughter alive.
But is was All about the mom sort of. As her daughter began her own path in the program, which included tons of socialization, mom could let go a tad and it was really good for both of them.

I hear you. You have been through a lot and you know you need to take care of yourself now. I hope it is in baby steps. Like putting on your running shoes as a start. Getting ready to run but contemplating and getting ready for it. Taking a huge challenge like a masters program is not baby steps. Maybe doing little things you love.

Wish I was there and we could go for coffee. You seem like such an  awesome person with so much heart.

Sea storm

Wow, Sea, that was a very good summary of a long and rambling thread!  You are right about yoga forming non verbal pathways.  It definitely shifts things for me and brings things to the surface - sometimes good, sometimes bad.  I know a lot of my physical tension comes from emotional stress so it makes sense that loosening everything up will let things out.  Sometimes I feel amazing after a session, other times just very tired, sometimes I find myself crying as I do it.  I do feel it's beneficial.

Unfortunately the MSBP/Fabricated Illness thing is thrown at parents a lot in the UK.  It's a very quick and effective way of shutting parents up and stopping them from fighting the system.  Children are taken into care over it, even when they've been diagnosed and doctors are arguing on behalf of the family.  The system here is very adversarial and utterly ineffective, in my opinion.  That said, I can't/won't provide him with adult care so we do need to get back into the system and so far it's going okay.  I have kept the info I've given short and to the point and I've not mentioned the abuse allegations.  If it comes up I'll explain as simply as I can.  It helps, in a way, that my mum has also done this to at least two other people that I'm aware of.  It shows that there's a pattern.  She's even used identical wording when making false allegations about myself and my sister.  So I kind of feel alright about it, more so because she's not involved, at all, and hasn't been for more than ten years.  I'm trying to keep it in perspective and not let my mind run into multiple scenarios of what might go wrong - difficult for me to do, it's my usual way of thinking, but I'm fighting against it and trying not to let that happen.

I get what you're saying about the mum whose daughter had anorexia.  It does consume you and take over your life, and it is hard to take a step away and let other people in again, particularly if you've had a bad experience.  Something I find hard is that none of the agencies work together, so as a parent you have to sort of 'manage' a whole load of people you don't have any authority over.  I spend a lot of time sending paperwork back and forth and chasing up letters and so on.  I think the other thing that I have struggled with is not doing things for him.  Because I was repeatedly accused of neglect, I felt a bit like I had to be supermum, to prove I wasn't just not bothering with him.  Now that he's older, he needs to do more things for himself and make his own choices.  He's fifteen, and if he wants to spend all day watching telly then really that's his choice now, but I still find it hard not to feel like a 'bad' mum for letting him do it.  So I'm working on that, that separation and letting him make his own choices without feeling responsible for the outcome.  Like you say, baby steps.

Thank you for all your kind words and comments, it really does mean a lot.

Tupp xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 21, 2017, 03:28:04 PM
Hi Tup:

You did so well with regard to noticing your thoughts, and choosing a response based on what's best for you.  Standing up to the way it FEEEEELS to resist helper mode isn't easy, IME.  It feels so bad.

I didn't do so well this week with that, but I'm working on it.

Regardless of our histories, being able examine choices, before jumping into rescue mode, is important. 

Being able to choose things that bring up discomfort is actually opportunity for growth. 

I need to begin viewing it that way.  The discomfort is growth, and opportunity, not something to be feared, and avoided.

Whew. Glad I got that straight; )

Lighter

It is hard, isn't it?  One of the reasons I find it difficult not to jump in (apart from all the psychological/learnt behaviour stuff) is because I've had to do so much reading and research about so many things with a view to all of my son's problems and everything that's happened over the years so I know where to find things quickly and which sort of organisations can help with various sorts of problems.  I do try and limit my help now to people who genuinely need it.  As an example, two friends with cancer.  One was a single mum, self employed, two kids, dad had died a few years earlier.  The other was married, financially stable, one grown up son and an extended family living nearby.  So the first friend definitely needed the support much more than the second - which isn't to say I didn't support the second friend at all, just not nearly so much as I did the first.  I try and think now "will they manage to do this without me doing it for them?"  And most of the time the answer's yes, they will.  I tend to forget that my situation of no partner, no family and few friends nearby is quite unusual - most people have got some sort of family to call on, even if they drive them nuts!  But it is a hard habit to break.  I try to think, "who am I doing this for - them or me?"  A lot of the time it's me.  The uncomfortable feeling passed quite quickly this time so I think there is progress being made :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 21, 2017, 03:30:02 PM
Something that came up for me this evening is that I tend to make do rather than specifically going after something I want.  Part of this has been down to economic necessity - but just this evening I fancied watching a film and I realised that I always tend to just watch one I've already got at home, or if I buy 'new' it's from the charity shop!  So I think I need to start trying to treat myself a little bit more and buying something specific rather than thinking 'that will do'.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Bettyanne on August 21, 2017, 06:02:21 PM
My mother volunteer every weekend the last 42 years of her life up to 100.  So people would drop off to her house or to the shrine she worked at used items, like used jewelry, or clothing, household goods etc and she would say the Lord will Provide.  I think it made sick to hear that all the time.  On Mondays nights she would call me to brag how much money she made for the shrine.  Like what the he** do I care what money you made for them, I would say to myself.  All it was was a means to get these priest and nuns attention telling her like she is a living saint.
 
In the mean time I am her only living child with six kids of my own, never ever having much to do with me at all, since I was born but sure could tell me what to do and how to do.
 
So making do.....or being grateful for pitance.....is like saying I am not worthing of anything more.  And her thinking was just that.  So its time to be good to ourselves......what eve that means for us.......So I am sure you know what is important and meaningful for you.  Making choices that get what you need or want!  Celebrate yourself....be happy for you...
Take care....xo
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 22, 2017, 03:44:32 AM
My mother volunteer every weekend the last 42 years of her life up to 100.  So people would drop off to her house or to the shrine she worked at used items, like used jewelry, or clothing, household goods etc and she would say the Lord will Provide.  I think it made sick to hear that all the time.  On Mondays nights she would call me to brag how much money she made for the shrine.  Like what the he** do I care what money you made for them, I would say to myself.  All it was was a means to get these priest and nuns attention telling her like she is a living saint.
 
In the mean time I am her only living child with six kids of my own, never ever having much to do with me at all, since I was born but sure could tell me what to do and how to do.
 
So making do.....or being grateful for pitance.....is like saying I am not worthing of anything more.  And her thinking was just that.  So its time to be good to ourselves......what eve that means for us.......So I am sure you know what is important and meaningful for you.  Making choices that get what you need or want!  Celebrate yourself....be happy for you...
Take care....xo

Hi Betty Anne, it's nice to see you :)

Yes, you are so right about the way money affects us.  I think for me it's because my mum's stuff was always more important to her than we were.  She was happiest at the weekends polishing everything in her glass cabinet, rather than spending time with us.  We were very, very broke after my dad died and she had so much she could have sold - jewellery, antiques, fur coats (real fur, this was back in the days that people wore real fur!).  She'd pawn pieces of jewellery every now and again for a short term loan but she never sold anything.  And then my step-dad moved in, and basically he could do whatever he wanted because he had money and she liked to spend it.  So I can see where I get my 'money doesn't matter to me' attitude from, and my need to make do.  But it is time to change that and write my own rules.  I must admit the thought is a bit scary, lol.  But I'm going to start small and perhaps just buy a nail varnish or something when we're out today, and perhaps a DVD to watch this evening :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on August 22, 2017, 06:45:50 AM
Wow. I too am awed by Sea's summary, Tupp. And by the distance you've come. I like hearing how much you see your own stuff. That's so huge in itself.

I think caring about yourself means everything, but it doesn't have to mean spending money you prefer to save for school, or travel or something long term. Just enough here and there to remind yourself you are a being worthy of love. Given my past (and shock of learning how money works through the course I took) I too am a tightwad. Though it's depressing at times, it mostly staves off fear. I have a SMALL nest egg for retirement emergencies. And the other night I booked a flight to Oslo. (Had heard about the new Norwegian line with ridiculous rates to Europe, and we have family friends there and I've always wanted to get back to Scandinavia. Still do.) But it turned out the friend who'd emailed me (to check in after some negative local news) doesn't have an available guest room and may be traveling himself...still works internationally and it was too soon to book a flight for my late-spring birthday. So I cancelled it. He's going to write again by end of year once he knows more about his schedule and I can re-think it then.

I really doubt I'll go alone, however. It can depress me terribly. Though I'm capable, it's not fun as it was when I was young.

Just rambling, checking in.

love
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 23, 2017, 02:35:02 PM
Wow. I too am awed by Sea's summary, Tupp. And by the distance you've come. I like hearing how much you see your own stuff. That's so huge in itself.

I think caring about yourself means everything, but it doesn't have to mean spending money you prefer to save for school, or travel or something long term. Just enough here and there to remind yourself you are a being worthy of love. Given my past (and shock of learning how money works through the course I took) I too am a tightwad. Though it's depressing at times, it mostly staves off fear. I have a SMALL nest egg for retirement emergencies. And the other night I booked a flight to Oslo. (Had heard about the new Norwegian line with ridiculous rates to Europe, and we have family friends there and I've always wanted to get back to Scandinavia. Still do.) But it turned out the friend who'd emailed me (to check in after some negative local news) doesn't have an available guest room and may be traveling himself...still works internationally and it was too soon to book a flight for my late-spring birthday. So I cancelled it. He's going to write again by end of year once he knows more about his schedule and I can re-think it then.

I really doubt I'll go alone, however. It can depress me terribly. Though I'm capable, it's not fun as it was when I was young.

Just rambling, checking in.

love
Hops

It's the balance, isn't it, not falling into the trap of spending money to make yourself feel better or to block out other things but not going completely the other way and never doing anything nice for yourself - or spending something on something a bit luxurious every now and again.  I'm trying to remind myself to take more breaks and to switch to doing 'fun' stuff in the evenings instead of just doing some more jobs on the to do list.  I've made myself a list of things I like doing.  We've done a little bit of shopping - I bought a really comfy pair of trousers in the charity shop (I've got them on now :) ) and a film to watch one evening when I can stay awake long enough!  We took our neighbour's dog out for a walk today, oh my word, I'm in love!  He was just so cute and he had so much fun.  He came into ours when we got back and curled himself up on the sofa with my son, he was so lovely.  I think I might contact a charity I know of that walk people's dogs for them if they're not well enough themselves.  I was going to do it ages ago but then my son's health problems got worse so it never happened but now I think he could definitely manage if I sign us up for one walk a week.  It was really good fun and it was so nice to see the little pooch so happy!  He looked like he was smiling :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 25, 2017, 02:13:45 PM
I've had a lovely day!  My son went to a T shirt printing workshop for special needs kids and it was lovely.  Very small group, nice staff, lovely building and the other kids were very sweet as well.  I enjoyed a couple of hours drinking coffee in the sun while he got creative.  Definitely keen to try more things now and get out and about more.  The area we went to is only about twenty minutes from where I live but we hadn't been there before and there was a lot to see and do.  The centre the workshop was at run other courses as well so I'm going to sign up for some of those.  It was really lovely.  I've got the whole weekend in front of me now with only a party tomorrow night to get my son to, the rest of the time is free so I am looking forward to relaxing a bit and hopefully enjoying some more sun :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sea storm on August 26, 2017, 05:57:33 AM
Wow, what a shift and you did it all yourself with deep thinking, experience and reaching out for support. it does not take a lot to make you happy fortunately ie. a nice dog to walk and your spirit perks right up. I love to hear how you are finding some relief and happiness in all this painful transition. Very brave.

I hope you keep writing. It is an amazing journey you are on.

Lots of hugs
Sea
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on August 26, 2017, 01:11:32 PM
Tupp:

I'm glad you could trust your son with these people, and turn to yourself for a bit without fits of WHAT IFs capturing you.

It sounds like your son had an amazing outing.  What classes sound good to you?

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 27, 2017, 09:38:55 AM
Wow, what a shift and you did it all yourself with deep thinking, experience and reaching out for support. it does not take a lot to make you happy fortunately ie. a nice dog to walk and your spirit perks right up. I love to hear how you are finding some relief and happiness in all this painful transition. Very brave.

I hope you keep writing. It is an amazing journey you are on.

Lots of hugs
Sea

Thanks, Sea, I am feeling like I'm moving towards something better instead of finding ways to cope with abuse I've had to endure, in all honesty.  It feels different to be actively working as a way to try to move my life forward instead of working to cope with the things others are doing or have done, and it feels nice, even though crappy stuff does come up sometimes and I fall off the wagon a bit.  I was happy because the dog was so happy, lol, he looks like he's smiling the whole time and he keeps looking back to make sure you're still there, even though he's on a lead :)  It's a bit like being around kids, I think, they take so much delight in so little that you can't help but feel happy about it :) x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 27, 2017, 09:44:39 AM
Tupp:

I'm glad you could trust your son with these people, and turn to yourself for a bit without fits of WHAT IFs capturing you.

It sounds like your son had an amazing outing.  What classes sound good to you?

Lighter

They were fab, Lighter, it was a very laid back class, parents could stay or go depending on what suited their child.  Usually it's one or the other; he doesn't usually want me around but equally he needs to be well enough supported to be able to join in so it's important that there are staff and that they know what they're doing and these people did.  They were so lovely, I find creative people tend to be good with disabilities, maybe because their brains enjoy difference and diversity so they get something out of the interaction as well.

But anyway, other classes - they're doing a film course later in the year, the kids work on the acting and script on the first day, then the second day is filming and editing.  They also do a stop motion Lego film course and there was a family T shirt printing day as well.

For me, they run photography courses that incorporate a bit of film as well, various workshops relating to jewellery making and stained glass, a multi media course where you create using all sorts of household materials, there's a drop in group twice a month where you can just work on your own project and meet people.  Some of the classes were a bit out of my price range but most of it was affordable and it's a lovely space, they've got their community areas but there are also individual studios that are rented out by local artists so you can watch them working as well, it was all really lovely :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 27, 2017, 09:48:59 AM
In other news - I realised today that I don't tend to create of form my own opinions or thoughts on things, I usually wait for someone else to input and respond to it.  I hadn't really noticed it before, but I suddenly saw myself as the blank child I used to be, bouncing off my mum's needs and reflecting back to her what she wanted and not having my own personality or thought patterns.  I remember occasions when I said or did something and it was always stamped down so quickly.  I need to work on that.

Equally we went out for a walk earlier and I realised that I start to tense up the minute I see people - I'm bracing myself for the criticism.  It's very, very subtle but I was talking to my son (he fires films questions as me as we walk along; we were into the quick fire round :) ) and some people came into view and it was so subtle but I realised I was immediately out of concentrating on my son and instead was focusing on how we looked to them and what they might think, whether they would be negative toward my son, whether they would be negative towards me.  Slight, but definitely there.  Need to work on that.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sea storm on August 27, 2017, 06:16:55 PM
So good to hear what you are saying about how you are coping with all the change and how you are observing your feelings and perceptions instead of being overwhelmed by them It is so hard to do this when one is hypervigilant  from years of a steady onslaught of criticism and attack.
I don't want to make this all about me so will just say that sometimes I have been in the crosshairs of narcissists and have struggled with everything I have to survive the experience.

No matter how hard one tries you cant be everything for your son, or he for you. It is a bloody marvel that he likes his class and you went for coffee.

Lots of love
Sea
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on August 27, 2017, 06:25:20 PM
Tupp:

It's difficult to escape caring what other people think.  It's not something to just get over.  It's something you phase out, mindfully, over time.  Maybe?  If we lose patience with ourselves..... we lose focus. If we're critical of ourselves.... we lose focus.  If we lose focus..... we start over again, IME.  And then things go in and out of focus on the journey, at least for me, esp during challenges.  It's complicated, and maybe there comes a point where we just stop thinking about it and DO.

Not sure, but I do love reading about your lovely day. 

Lighter

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 30, 2017, 10:53:23 AM
Thank you, Sea and Lighter :)

It's funny, but making the decision to be more 'in' myself and not think about the way other people see me has really stressed me out and I'm having a bit of a blue day.  It was weird but this morning I realised that I get hugely stressed out but in an almost imperceptible way.

I found myself this morning running all sorts of disaster scenarios through my head - they turn down his college application, the docs refuse the referrals I've asked for, our benefit application is denied and we have no money, I can't sell the van and we have no transport - all running through my head very quietly whilst I got on with other things.  And then I found myself wondering why I was running all these disaster scenarios through my head - today is no different to any other day and yes, there are always a million things that could go wrong but that's true for everybody if you chose to think that way and I don't, as a rule.  So why was it all building up so much?  The phone rang and I was too scared to answer it.  I heard a knock at the door and I was too scared to see who it was.  I couldn't settle to get anything done and I got to a point where I felt like I was going to pass out.  And I realised that is usually the point at which I disassociate and go into autopilot.  The only thing I can think of that might have brought that on is deciding to be 'myself' more and not make myself fit into what everybody else wants, or to just be invisible and not bother anyone.  I think the idea of it is so scary to little Tup that she freaks out completely.

Phew!  I feel better for writing that down.  Yet I've been coming on here all day and couldn't write, physically couldn't get it together enough to make any sense on paper (or screen, more specifically!).  I sat down on the sofa after lunch and slept solidly for almost two hours.  I usually take a little nap, I find it helps me get through the rest of the day but this was a real loss of consciousness.  And when I woke up I felt groggy.  It's starting to clear now, whether that's because I feel like I worked it out I'm not sure.  I think I might go out for a walk and try to reconnect a bit and get some fresh air.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on August 30, 2017, 04:00:42 PM
(((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))

Boy can I relate to panic attacks, racing thoughts, etc. I feel for you.

You are not crazy. All your scary thoughts will not come true. You're dealing with a lot, undergoing a lot of change and dislodging some habits. All that's deeply stressful.

Don't beat up on yourself.

But I have a serious question. What happened to the lovely T you were talking to, and is there a compelling reason you can't meet her once a week? I hope you can.

love to you,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on August 30, 2017, 04:47:33 PM
(((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))

Boy can I relate to panic attacks, racing thoughts, etc. I feel for you.

You are not crazy. All your scary thoughts will not come true. You're dealing with a lot, undergoing a lot of change and dislodging some habits. All that's deeply stressful.

Don't beat up on yourself.

But I have a serious question. What happened to the lovely T you were talking to, and is there a compelling reason you can't meet her once a week? I hope you can.

love to you,
Hops

Ah thanks Hops, it's eased off as the evening wore on, I feel v tired now and I think I will wake up in the morning feeling okay again :)  Just one of those shifts that needed to happen, I think :)

The lovely T is waiting in the wings, I've not got the money or the childcare to see her at the minute but she's top of my to do list once my son starts college :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on August 30, 2017, 09:37:51 PM
Aw, spit. For some reason (stupidity) I was assuming that the NHS meant you could access mental health or therapy at no cost. Didn't realize this would be what we call out-of-pocket.

Damn.

love
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on August 30, 2017, 10:04:41 PM
Sorry you're struggling, Tupp. 

I remember the first time I tried to visualize myself as someone who wasn't always under attack.   

Not knowing what came next was scary.   What would happen if I removed the familiar scaffolding of BEING under attack all the time?  Would I fly apart, untethered and lost?  Would I flop over emotionally?  I didn't know, and not knowing was it's own terrifying THING, IME. 

What I gained by holding on was not having to worry about being blindsided.  I could limit the unknowns that might otherwise vex me.  There was comfort in the devil I knew, kwim?

There came a point where I wanted more, and I had good reason to feel the court battles had ended.  It was time, Tupp.  I think it's your time too.

::nodding::

Giving up expectations leaves wide open spaces.  Nature abhors a vacuum. It's natural to rush to fill it, or feel we HAVE to fill it?  I wish that wasn't true, but it feels true for me. Not trying to force fill it means we have no idea WHAT will end up taking it's place.  It takes time to make peace with not knowing, IME.

So.... what do you gain by living with expectations and judgements of other people in your head? 

What do you have to gain by banishing them?

When the pain of living with our old expectations outweighs the pain of leaving them behind, we leave them?  In any case, there's going to be pain.  This new pain, Tupp... I think it's the pain of huge growth.

::nodding::

 Instead of worrying, when I sense anxiety looming, I sometimes do a mental exercise...
I push off a dock in my mind, and skim the sea with my fingertips as I pass over the water. I've managed to move under the water, and there were SEA CREATURES!  Yay.  I fly above the water.  I'm curious to see where I'll go next.

For me this is meditation. THIS is choosing to feel something other than worry that no longer serves me.

My creativity is returning bit by bit.  I see possibilities I couldn't see before.  I consider that important, and relevant. 

I'm learning to move toward discomfort as it comes up for me.  Waiting till it's overwhelming is always a mistake, IME.  If it's there, it requires attention.  I consider this practice to be another form of meditation as well.  I don't really understand meditation outside those formats.

Expectations are expectations whether I impose them on myself or allow others to do it, IME.  Expectations take up space.  They crowd out possibilities, IME.

While you're feeling for "your edges", as Hops would say, remember it's OK to not know what comes next.  It's OK to feel untethered.  Sometimes it's freeing even, IME. 
 

Learning to live with the discomfort of not knowing is growth for me


I hope that makes a bit of sense.  If I made no sense at all, then know I'm here, reading with you, and learning.   

Thanks for sharing, esp when words are hard to find, (((Tupp))).

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 01, 2017, 11:30:24 AM
Hi all, I will reply properly later on, have been having a busy couple of days (in a nice way) but just wanted to say................we just got home after a nice day out and there is a postcard here from my mum, informing me that she is going to start posting letters and cards for my son that people have sent him over the years and will be in touch to organise dropping off photo albums.  Also that she has money put away for him for when he's 18.

I did have a bit of a belly flip for a couple of seconds; the timing is odd because - wait for it - we got the letter from the local authority yesterday agreeing to assess my son for his college placement.  Because of all of that I've been a bit sensitive, as you know, so to then get home to a card from her, I did freak momentarily.

But - it was brief.  My first thought was 'who has given her my address?'  I'm not listed on any public records because I make sure I'm not and I check regularly to make sure I can't be found.  I'm not a prolific social media user and my account is very firmly locked down so only people I want to see it can see it.  And then I thought, no, this is what she does - she wants me to know that she knows where I live and she wants me to wonder how she found out.  So I've pushed that thought out of my mind - I'm not giving her my time.

My next thought was whether or not to respond (she's signed the card as Grandmother) and again I thought, no, she wants some sort of reaction, so I just chucked the card and if/when she starts sending stuff I'll just chuck it straight in the bin.  The only thing I will do is start making a note of dates and what she does, just in case she starts escalating again, but that will just be a list on the computer and not something I'm going to pay too much attention to.

The other thing is the money.  Money is a huge control weapon for her.  She was furious when I told her she could stick her money and she was even more furious when I returned the money she was sending my son (which is why she's been putting it away for him herself).  He doesn't have capacity to manage his own money which means I'll be doing it for him.  I know with her it's a control thing and it's how she hopes she'll win him over once he's officially an adult.  I'm just going to ignore her.

Anyway, I just wanted to report that quickly!  I was pleased that my reaction hasn't been a complete meltdown - there was a time when the sight of her handwriting brought on a panic attack but that has clearly passed :)  Will update properly later on but things are good :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on September 01, 2017, 05:01:14 PM
Hmmm! Personally, I think you should be glad about any money that your son winds up with.

But I love your thought of documenting the contact and then...ignore further. No response to her card/message is necessary. If she intends to leave money in her will, well lovely! Your son's life may benefit from that being put in savings for him once she dies.

Before that happens, there's absolutely nothing you need to do to acknowledge/respond/accept/go along with/reply/agree. Nothing.

I think you're handling it just perfectly. No need to derail funds that may one day be there for your son. But no need to "purchase" your or his right to receive them by cooperating with her agenda ahead of time.

As to cards/letters he's received at her address? Since she has it now, she could obviously forward them. You don't need to acknowledge that either.

So impressed with you. Tupp, you kept your balance and didn't let this old bat rock your core.

BRAVO!

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 02, 2017, 03:52:14 AM
Aw, spit. For some reason (stupidity) I was assuming that the NHS meant you could access mental health or therapy at no cost. Didn't realize this would be what we call out-of-pocket.

Damn.

love
Hops

Aw, unfortunately not, Hopsie, there's very little you can get on the NHS in reality; it's touted as a health service that's free at the point of use but unfortunately there's a lot that's either not funded at all or is of such poor quality that it's not really worth bothering with.  They tend to stick to absolute things that have an end point - surgery, endless prescriptions for meds, things like chemo for cancer.  They don't really do any maintenance kind of stuff or just life enhancing.  Mental health services are almost non existent and having been through them once before I know they often do more harm than good :)  Once son is at college I'll start seeing nice lady again, I am looking foward to it actually :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 02, 2017, 03:56:06 AM
Sorry you're struggling, Tupp. 

I remember the first time I tried to visualize myself as someone who wasn't always under attack.   

Not knowing what came next was scary.   What would happen if I removed the familiar scaffolding of BEING under attack all the time?  Would I fly apart, untethered and lost?  Would I flop over emotionally?  I didn't know, and not knowing was it's own terrifying THING, IME. 

What I gained by holding on was not having to worry about being blindsided.  I could limit the unknowns that might otherwise vex me.  There was comfort in the devil I knew, kwim?

There came a point where I wanted more, and I had good reason to feel the court battles had ended.  It was time, Tupp.  I think it's your time too.

::nodding::

Giving up expectations leaves wide open spaces.  Nature abhors a vacuum. It's natural to rush to fill it, or feel we HAVE to fill it?  I wish that wasn't true, but it feels true for me. Not trying to force fill it means we have no idea WHAT will end up taking it's place.  It takes time to make peace with not knowing, IME.

So.... what do you gain by living with expectations and judgements of other people in your head? 

What do you have to gain by banishing them?

When the pain of living with our old expectations outweighs the pain of leaving them behind, we leave them?  In any case, there's going to be pain.  This new pain, Tupp... I think it's the pain of huge growth.

::nodding::

 Instead of worrying, when I sense anxiety looming, I sometimes do a mental exercise...
I push off a dock in my mind, and skim the sea with my fingertips as I pass over the water. I've managed to move under the water, and there were SEA CREATURES!  Yay.  I fly above the water.  I'm curious to see where I'll go next.

For me this is meditation. THIS is choosing to feel something other than worry that no longer serves me.

My creativity is returning bit by bit.  I see possibilities I couldn't see before.  I consider that important, and relevant. 

I'm learning to move toward discomfort as it comes up for me.  Waiting till it's overwhelming is always a mistake, IME.  If it's there, it requires attention.  I consider this practice to be another form of meditation as well.  I don't really understand meditation outside those formats.

Expectations are expectations whether I impose them on myself or allow others to do it, IME.  Expectations take up space.  They crowd out possibilities, IME.

While you're feeling for "your edges", as Hops would say, remember it's OK to not know what comes next.  It's OK to feel untethered.  Sometimes it's freeing even, IME. 
 

Learning to live with the discomfort of not knowing is growth for me


I hope that makes a bit of sense.  If I made no sense at all, then know I'm here, reading with you, and learning.   

Thanks for sharing, esp when words are hard to find, (((Tupp))).

Lighter

All makes sense, Lighter, I'm nodding :)  Yes, you get so used to it that normal life feels anything but.  But I'm getting there, noticing more, practising, things are good.  We had a nice day out yesterday, good fun, no pressure, I didn't feel the endless questioning of myself that I usually do, it's easing off already.  We've a nice quiet weekend ahead, we can do lots or do nothing, or something in between :)  I'm really enjoying that, it's been a long time since I've felt I have choices about what to do.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 02, 2017, 03:58:58 AM
Hmmm! Personally, I think you should be glad about any money that your son winds up with.

But I love your thought of documenting the contact and then...ignore further. No response to her card/message is necessary. If she intends to leave money in her will, well lovely! Your son's life may benefit from that being put in savings for him once she dies.

Before that happens, there's absolutely nothing you need to do to acknowledge/respond/accept/go along with/reply/agree. Nothing.

I think you're handling it just perfectly. No need to derail funds that may one day be there for your son. But no need to "purchase" your or his right to receive them by cooperating with her agenda ahead of time.

As to cards/letters he's received at her address? Since she has it now, she could obviously forward them. You don't need to acknowledge that either.

So impressed with you. Tupp, you kept your balance and didn't let this old bat rock your core.

BRAVO!

hugs
Hops

Yes, I was glad it didn't rock me too badly either, I did have a bit of disturbed sleep and felt a bit wobbly first thing but that's worn off.  Was also slightly concerned as my sister texted and she's getting a bit of hassle at the moment as well so there's a tiny worry that my mum is going to launch one of her massive campaigns again but you know what, if she does, she does, I'm not letting what 'might' happen knock me off course.  Things are going well, I'm feeling like there's a light at the end of the tunnel for the very first time in a long time so I'm going to keep heading for it and not let myself get knocked off course :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 02, 2017, 07:31:50 AM
Ok, my happy bubble has burst a bit now, my sister called me this morning to tell me my mum's been driving around the village we live in now looking for our van and telling people that I steal my son's money which is why she keeps it for him until he's 18.

It's not so much I'm frightened of what she might do (she can only do the same as she's done before), it's not that I'm massively bothered about the nonsense she tells people about me (it's only people that don't know me that swallow it) or that she might turn up at the doorstep for some strange reason (I have no qualms about shutting the door in her face without speaking) but I do feel a bit twisted up inside and just a bit argh!!  not again.  why can't she get a life?

So yes, practically all I can do is keep on keeping on.  I'm a bit worried she might cause problems with the college so I might give them a heads up when we get to that point, just in case.  I'm due to see the social worker within the next fortnight; there should already be something on his records with them about malicious allegations but again I might just double check with her and let her know something 'may come up'.

Bloody bollocks to her.  It's times like this I wish we lived in a different country that she couldn't touch us in.  I am trying to keep focused on good, positive things but I do have that sick feeling in my stomach and I can feel my brain starting to cut off and go to its safe place.  Stupid, stupid woman.  Now would be a really good time for me to find out I'm adopted :) Lol x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 02, 2017, 12:41:27 PM
Just another update :)

By lunchtime today I felt like I'd been hit by a bus.  I was aching from head to toe, I had a terrible headache, I felt empty and raw and I could feel myself going onto autopilot and disconnecting from reality.  The physical effect this woman has on me is astonishing.

I slept after lunch and woke up feeling desolate.  I felt overwhelmed by everything that's gone before, all the years battling the child abuse allegations, defending myself against people determined to find me guilty, all the people that left me to cope on my own, everything that went on.  It all felt so much and I cried so hard and found myself thinking, when will this ever end?  Do I really have to wait until she dies?  It could take another twenty years!  I'd be in my mid sixties by then.  And that made me feel so sad.

But then gradually all that cleared and I started thinking about how far I've come, how brave it was of me to cut of contact with her, not to let myself get dragged into her stupid, endless mind games, to rise above all the gossip and the pointless, fruitless things that she does.  And I started to feel good about myself, and about all the work I've done, the counselling, the self help books, the endless journal writing!  And of course talking to all of you on here, and just generally trying to look after myself and make it all worth something.

So yes, I feel better.  I would prefer never to hear from her again, but maybe this has cleared a bit more out and next time it really won't affect me, or, if it does, hopefully I'll remember that this cleared relatively fast and without a major upset occurring.  I did feel really angry for a bit and wanted to write to her and tell her exactly what I think but even that only lasted about half an hour.  So hopefully it's processed a little bit more and next time will be even less of a drama :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sea storm on September 02, 2017, 02:49:04 PM
I am so sorry for what your mother has put your through. Even if she isn't actually there she is a presence that haunts and terrorizes you. She has taken you hostage and I find this so unfair.

I read a book called The Gift of Fear and it talks about how your intuition is a strong ally in dealing with seriously deranged and dangerous people. Your intuition is broadcasting loud and clear that this woman poses a threat. What it says is to shut the door immediately at the first whiff of contact. Give NOTHING. SAY NO. Don't even bother saying no, just be a brick wall. Money is her lure and it is absolutely important for you to not get drawn in. I know this is difficult because you need the money so much.
You have been such a good soldier in standing by your son and trying to move forward under such a constant onslaught. She does not deserve to take your power. Your power to have your own life.

As for school, they are bound by confidentiality and if they engage in gossip with your mother, it becomes a matter for serious breach of ethics. They would need permission from you in order to bring her into the issue of your son't education. If you feel compelled to discuss this with the school then you should wait to see if this even happens. The people at the school have dealt with hundreds of scenarios and a meddling grandmother is a very clear signal that the grandma has big problems and they will cut this off immediately and politely.   For one thing they don't have time for this kind of toxic drama and can't get sidetracked from what they are doing. It is one thing for your mother to badger you with your neighbors but quite another if she attempts to involve a large institution.
It is so hard to deal with strong triggers that put one in an emotional state of fear and feeling helpless. I get that way to and can't even get out of bed and I cry all day having no resources to get myself to a place of safety in my head. You have the resources to help yourself to get out of that tortured hostage place. Your thoughts are sort of the enemy and use your arsenal good soldier. Tapping, chanting, repeating positive affirmations, moving your body in yoga, reaching out to this message board. You are not alone in your suffering.

It does not matter a rat's ass about what other people think. It is not any of your business what other people think, especially people in the village who are probably not that interested in you or anyone else. Please don't worry about nasty gossip. Slander is for twits. Both the slanderer and the dolts who passively listen to character assassination. You are so much more than they know or could know. Maybe they entertain themselves and boost themselves up with bringing down innocent people but it is nothing to do with you. I was slandered in my workplace and it was god awful and I wish that I knew to not let it take my power. I would not be reactive.  Just get busy having a nice life and do my art and garden and sing.
I hear how this cuts you to the bone and my words are an attempt to help you and love you and support you. Your parental unit has done enough and should not have the power to hurt you anymore.

Some kind of mental akido is needed but I don't know how to do that yet.

Blessings to you

Sea








Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 04, 2017, 11:49:16 AM
I am so sorry for what your mother has put your through. Even if she isn't actually there she is a presence that haunts and terrorizes you. She has taken you hostage and I find this so unfair.

I read a book called The Gift of Fear and it talks about how your intuition is a strong ally in dealing with seriously deranged and dangerous people. Your intuition is broadcasting loud and clear that this woman poses a threat. What it says is to shut the door immediately at the first whiff of contact. Give NOTHING. SAY NO. Don't even bother saying no, just be a brick wall. Money is her lure and it is absolutely important for you to not get drawn in. I know this is difficult because you need the money so much.
You have been such a good soldier in standing by your son and trying to move forward under such a constant onslaught. She does not deserve to take your power. Your power to have your own life.

As for school, they are bound by confidentiality and if they engage in gossip with your mother, it becomes a matter for serious breach of ethics. They would need permission from you in order to bring her into the issue of your son't education. If you feel compelled to discuss this with the school then you should wait to see if this even happens. The people at the school have dealt with hundreds of scenarios and a meddling grandmother is a very clear signal that the grandma has big problems and they will cut this off immediately and politely.   For one thing they don't have time for this kind of toxic drama and can't get sidetracked from what they are doing. It is one thing for your mother to badger you with your neighbors but quite another if she attempts to involve a large institution.
It is so hard to deal with strong triggers that put one in an emotional state of fear and feeling helpless. I get that way to and can't even get out of bed and I cry all day having no resources to get myself to a place of safety in my head. You have the resources to help yourself to get out of that tortured hostage place. Your thoughts are sort of the enemy and use your arsenal good soldier. Tapping, chanting, repeating positive affirmations, moving your body in yoga, reaching out to this message board. You are not alone in your suffering.

It does not matter a rat's ass about what other people think. It is not any of your business what other people think, especially people in the village who are probably not that interested in you or anyone else. Please don't worry about nasty gossip. Slander is for twits. Both the slanderer and the dolts who passively listen to character assassination. You are so much more than they know or could know. Maybe they entertain themselves and boost themselves up with bringing down innocent people but it is nothing to do with you. I was slandered in my workplace and it was god awful and I wish that I knew to not let it take my power. I would not be reactive.  Just get busy having a nice life and do my art and garden and sing.
I hear how this cuts you to the bone and my words are an attempt to help you and love you and support you. Your parental unit has done enough and should not have the power to hurt you anymore.

Some kind of mental akido is needed but I don't know how to do that yet.

Blessings to you

Sea

Thank you, Sea, yes, I agree with all of that!  I feel fine again now, I think it just brought some old stuff up but it's okay again now, a bit like a cat bringing up a furball, I think!  I have/will ignore her completely, it really is the only way to deal with her.  I just find her so pathetic and it makes me sad that, even after everything that has happened, she still can't do anything other than behave like an idiot.  She's a fool unto herself.  I often find myself wishing that she had died instead of my dad when I was little.  I think life would have been very different.  But anyway.  It is what it is.  We are moving on, moving forward, things are changing slowly :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on September 04, 2017, 01:56:43 PM
Quote
I started thinking about how far I've come, how brave it was of me to cut of contact with her, not to let myself get dragged into her stupid, endless mind games, to rise above all the gossip and the pointless, fruitless things that she does.  And I started to feel good about myself, and about all the work I've done

I so savored reading this, Tupp. It got me thinking about how children of Ns are so motivated and affected by fear and pain and confusion, that one of our adult skills becomes, naturally enough, getting really really good at vibrating to/responding to/identifying with ... what's negative.

When someone's been though that kind of a childhood and eventually becomes able to state what you have above, it's blazingly wonderful.

There are no trumpets, certificates, or acts of justice that make healing real. But to simply feel good about oneself, or be able to get back to that feeling again after being pulled away from it...that is what healing looks like, in my view.

Bravo and simply, Yes.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 04, 2017, 03:37:40 PM
Quote
I started thinking about how far I've come, how brave it was of me to cut of contact with her, not to let myself get dragged into her stupid, endless mind games, to rise above all the gossip and the pointless, fruitless things that she does.  And I started to feel good about myself, and about all the work I've done

I so savored reading this, Tupp. It got me thinking about how children of Ns are so motivated and affected by fear and pain and confusion, that one of our adult skills becomes, naturally enough, getting really really good at vibrating to/responding to/identifying with ... what's negative.

When someone's been though that kind of a childhood and eventually becomes able to state what you have above, it's blazingly wonderful.

There are no trumpets, certificates, or acts of justice that make healing real. But to simply feel good about oneself, or be able to get back to that feeling again after being pulled away from it...that is what healing looks like, in my view.

Bravo and simply, Yes.

Hugs
Hops

Thank you, Hops, I think we should make ourselves certificates :)  Lol.  I do feel healed to a large extent, although I realised today that I am struggling to be around unhealed people, if that makes sense?  I do feel quite strongly that I simply don't want my mum, or anyone who knows my mum, to know where I live, or to be able to contact me.  There's not much I can do about it at the moment but I don't feel as snug and hidden away in my little flat as I did before she got in touch.  A car, similar to hers, drove past us today and tooted.  I've no idea if it was her or not, but it wouldn't have even crossed my mind a week ago to consider it might be.  I'd really like the lack of contact to be absolute.  But anyway - yes, on the whole, things are good, I had a good day with my son today, I've some calls to make tomorrow with regards to the college, I've contacted social services again about some help with a carer, we'll be selling the van in the next couple of weeks and things are generally going okay :)  I hope things are okay with you? xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on September 04, 2017, 04:46:20 PM
Tupp:   

I don't think you need to say anything to anyone at the college, etc about your insane mother's words or deeds..... at this point.

IF you feel it's necessary to create context for anything that MIGHT come up....
I say have a very short statement that does that:

"Unfortunately my mother is mentally ill, and has created situations that are dangerous for my son, and me.  It was necessary to go through the Courts to limit the damage she was attempting to do through (insert government agencies.)"

Operating words should be MOTHER MENTALLY ILL - DANGEROUS - LIMIT DAMAGE SHE DID.  Now, that's just my opinion, and there will be others that may make more sense. 

What you don't want to happen is for someone in a position to thwart you, to read something that makes them feel they have to smite you in order to bring justice to the world.  We've both dealt with those people, and it's difficult to undo something that happened behind your back, and without the ability to provide facts and context.... that's the only reason providing SOMETHING comes up for me.

IF they bring it up, say they heard or read something..... that's one thing.  I'd say the same short statement would apply, but you'd perhaps have something concrete to address..... a particular report, or charge, or accusation perhaps?

See, it's very easy to get dragged down the rabbit hole, and we have a hard time appearing stable when we talk about what the nutters DID or DO to us, IME.

Mentally ILL Mother - when she's offer her medication she has psychotic episodes that are dangerous - limited her ability to do harm through the courts.  Then you go back to being Son focused, appropriate Tupp without missing a beat, IMO.

If said with compassion, and regret, sometimes people aren't as triggered as they are by long explanations, and words like NO CONTACT with mum, etc, kwim?

In any case, it's behind you, and your futures is NOW.  ::emphatic nodding::

Hops:

I so liked what you said about healing...

" getting back to that feeling again after being pulled away from it." 

Reading that felt so very true.

Yes: )






 



Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 04, 2017, 06:14:15 PM
Tupp:   

I don't think you need to say anything to anyone at the college, etc about your insane mother's words or deeds..... at this point.

IF you feel it's necessary to create context for anything that MIGHT come up....
I say have a very short statement that does that:

"Unfortunately my mother is mentally ill, and has created situations that are dangerous for my son, and me.  It was necessary to go through the Courts to limit the damage she was attempting to do through (insert government agencies.)"

Operating words should be MOTHER MENTALLY ILL - DANGEROUS - LIMIT DAMAGE SHE DID.  Now, that's just my opinion, and there will be others that may make more sense. 

What you don't want to happen is for someone in a position to thwart you, to read something that makes them feel they have to smite you in order to bring justice to the world.  We've both dealt with those people, and it's difficult to undo something that happened behind your back, and without the ability to provide facts and context.... that's the only reason providing SOMETHING comes up for me.

IF they bring it up, say they heard or read something..... that's one thing.  I'd say the same short statement would apply, but you'd perhaps have something concrete to address..... a particular report, or charge, or accusation perhaps?

See, it's very easy to get dragged down the rabbit hole, and we have a hard time appearing stable when we talk about what the nutters DID or DO to us, IME.

Mentally ILL Mother - when she's offer her medication she has psychotic episodes that are dangerous - limited her ability to do harm through the courts.  Then you go back to being Son focused, appropriate Tupp without missing a beat, IMO.

If said with compassion, and regret, sometimes people aren't as triggered as they are by long explanations, and words like NO CONTACT with mum, etc, kwim?

In any case, it's behind you, and your futures is NOW.  ::emphatic nodding::

Hops:

I so liked what you said about healing...

" getting back to that feeling again after being pulled away from it." 

Reading that felt so very true.

Yes: )

Yep, you're right.  I think my default setting when she pops up is to run around shouting 'it's not true, it's not true' to anyone that will listen.  It's sometimes so hard to explain what she does as well.  On the surface the card is completely innocuous - a grandmother is letting me know she's sending some cards and pictures over and that she has some money for when he's older.  What goes underneath that is four decades of gaslighting, verbal abuse, tacit acceptance of sexual abuse, etc, etc, etc.  That's what gets triggered, and what's hard as well is knowing that there are many people out there who are like her and will help her to abuse us instead of stopping her (and that, of course, triggers the childhood stuff of being abused and everyone turning a blind eye).  So I think this big rush of horrible possibilities just flies up and makes me panic.  But I'm feeling steadier again now and with a bit of luck she won't find out he's at college anyway - it's just something I will need to deal with if/when it happens xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 05, 2017, 01:13:56 AM
Morning everyone :)  Just putting this here so that I don't forget.  I've just woken up and my first thought on waking was:  "She can't bear it when I'm happy".  And that, in a nutshell, is the sole source of my mum's problem.  As far back as I can remember, probably from age five, she has knocked, ridiculed, criticised and cut me down every time I did something good or enjoyed myself.  All these allegations of abuse have never made sense to me, from her point of view.  She lost contact with her grandkids because of it, she alerted the authorities to the sexual abuse my stepfather put me through (I'd never mentioned it or reported him, but as each agency came forward with their allegations part of explaining the whole situation included the fact that we'd fallen out over him abusing me and her failing to do anything about it, so that information is recorded in at least a dozen places now).  And now I think that came about because I was thriving - I had my son, I was embarking on a promising career, I had a lovely place to live and good friends around me.  And she couldn't bear to see me in such a happy place.  And I think that's the reason she's got in touch now - she has few weapons in her arsenal anymore - some old birthday cards and a bit of a cash.  She heard we moved and that means that, once again, we're getting on with life - spreading our wings, moving forward, opening up to new possibilities.  When we've moved in the past, she's responded by contacting the local authorities and making her claims against me.  She can't do that here because we're in the same geographical area we were before, so she contacted all the local agencies here when we moved last time.  Her only happiness and progress stopping tactic now is this pathetic attempt to disrupt our situation with her old photographs.  In fact if I wrote to her saying I was so happy she'd got in touch and I'd love the cards and photos she probably won't send them (I'm not going to write to her but it's a funny thought :) ).

It's also occurred to me that this thing with keeping his cards and money is her only way to try and exert control now - and it's pathetic.  And if that's truly the only thing she can do to try to keep me down, well, I really have beaten it then, haven't I? :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on September 05, 2017, 02:03:16 PM
Tupp:

I was thinking about the insidious traps interpersonal family terorists (IFTs)set for the people they harm.  Especially the people who crave serenity, safety, and connection for everyone involved, IME.


The IFT straightforward attack was something one could wrap their mind around, and take head on.... deal in a straightforward manner without being judged too harshly by outsiders, IME.  That kind of attack was easier for the IFT's minions to spot, IME.  Things could be dealt with more efficiently, and ended more quickly when they were presented as battle, and not as kindness, IME.  Just straight to war, preparing for it, and fighting each battle as it came up.   

It's the attacks dressed up ;like something else that add more time, trauma, and expense, IME.   Dressed up to look like conciliatory gestures.  Dressed up to APPEAR to others as olive branches.... as a white dove of peace,  or restitution.... a natural act of a caring by a relative who SHOULD care, but doesn't.  Those are the most difficult to deal with.  Especially if we're at all inclined to being mesmerized still by the IFT, and hope things can ever be OK, for whatever reason.  We all want our children to have extended families, and what that offers, for instance.  It's a place we can feel guilt, and shame, and absence of at every milestone.  Every birthday, graduation, recital, and health scare, IME.  Being tempted to believe it's not an attack, but maybe an olive branch, when it's just a wedge to find a way inside our boundaries so they can continue the campaign of chaos once again.  That's a really difficult truth.   

Once we learn, and no longer wring our hands, or have to remember all roads lead to Rome.... then the healing begins.  Begins? 

I'm not sure, but I do know there are all sorts of borders, and some are fluid, and in need of pruning or tweaking.  Some are quite solid for reasons that require no revisiting or questions ever again, IME.  We aren't required to give them another thought, or regret ever again, IME.  That's so difficult when it's FOO, or close family.  Always hard.  Sometimes it's impossible. 

Today I thought about my MIL and it made me feel physically weak, and nauseous. It had to do with what I was wearing to work in the yard.  How she dressed. and it took me a while to feel better, but it's done. 

See, I don't have to ever think about her again, or I can reframe thoughts around her.... find new perspective, or just bounce off the thought and crack on without noticing she came up.  There are different levels of damage, and different levels of healing, IME.  Different ways of getting past old wounds.

As I sat listening to mosquitos buzz my ears while dining on my feet and ankles I thought..... "Get up and change clothes... eat an allergy pill... spray the bites before you scratch them."  I said to myself.... I'll continue pulling weeds until I scratch ONE time, then I'll go in and change, blah blah.

That was interesting bc the itching stopped, and the bugs didn't really  bother me again after that chat with myself.  They were just bugs, not something else, but it's easy to interpret everything as a threat when we've been living that way for a long time, IME.  Learning to gain perspective again is part of healing.  Finding a way to interpret thoughts around old trauma, and the IFTs is part of not losing my perspective going forward.  I see that now.  I hope I remember it.

So I was changing clothes, and spraying the bites when I was reminded of my MIL.  I was surprised by the overwhelming physical reaction.  I felt like things got dark, and heavy, and I might throw up.  It was a very visceral thing, and I'm relieved to think I won't ever have to feel that way again if I can remain mindful.

Oh... back to the extended IFT extending kind gestures and offers that are traps, not what they appear at all.  SUCH an insidious thing it is, IME.   

Like having someone offer a warmy softy hug, but what they're really doing is gaining position to stab you in the kidneys, where no one else can see, and they're talking and smiling and trying to keep your attention on the hug..... acting hurt when you draw back, and protect your kidneys... denying they stabbed you or did anything but HUG you, and that's what they tell everyone supporting their valiant kind gesture.  And they believe it, at least for a while most of them do, IME.  Terrible to see them smile while they hurt you... pretending you're insane and telling people you're the mentally ill one, etc.  Just insidious.  That's a very good word, IME.  And relentless.  Another good word for the IFTs.

Anyway, I solved a few problems lately that I couldn't identify as "problems" bc I've been so overwhelmed.  The solutions just presented themselves out of the blue.  No effort.  Just clean clear clarity around something that had been vexing me for years, but with a very low awareness on my part. 

Ahh... clarity.  Welcome back.  You've been missed.

::nodding::

I hope you're here to stay. 

I think it's growth, and healing.  One reason I wanted to pull weeds so long is bc it felt wonderful.  It was a refreshing enjoyable task that lead to planning the pine island that lead to cleaning up borders that lead to excitement about spending time doing the same tomorrow and noticing how I'm getting ahead in certain ways in certain areas, and need to change my game plan in other ways for other reasons.  What's growing where and how best to plan the island, begin it, end it.    I used to feel good tending to moss and shade plantings.  I loved it again today, and was reminded of Hops words about healing.  Things returning to us.  Feeling competent and capable again.  Sure of myself. 


Part of what returns is our ability to access perspective, and creativity.  To access focus again, and avoid rabbit holes without having to spend time doing it.  Just doing it, IME. Part of it is SEEING ourselves through our own eyes, and not those of judgmental OTHER people, IME. 

Again, the shift in perspective.  HUGE, IME if we can manage it.

This yard is MINE to create and enjoy.  If it's not going to be beautiful the entire way through the process, oh well.  The front yard was torn up, and planted with junk grass seeds when I bought it.  It will be a process I'm aware of, and those neighbors and friends I include will give advice and understand, and that's going to have to be enough.  It IS enough.  I feel good about that today.  The opinions of others don't matter.  I must remember that.

I used to feel chased and whipped.  At some point it became my new set point... felt normal, unfortunately. 

How do we move people through and out of that terrible space more quickly?  It's such a relief to NOTICE what's in front of me again.  To have normal feelings around regular maintenance without worrying about how it COULD be sabotage of my car, my furnace, my you pick it.  It was always my first thought I'd been sabotaged in so many ways for so long. 

And no one can understand what THAT is if they lack the perspective, and life experience, IME.  If no one's broken off your side mirror every 6 months, or poked holes in your tires, left a balloon on your doorstep on a certain date, or snapped off a large tree sized bush that points to where the balloon sat the next day, or maybe hardwired something into your computer or vehicle...... they don't understand why you'd be worried about your furnace being tampered with, or toxic chemicals being dumped on your land, or poison or snakes in your mailbox, or accusations made against you that you'll disprove over and over again but it will cost you 2  - 6 years, and 80K - 400K every time, over and over and over without knowing when or if it will end.  They don't and they never will, and I'm glad for those who'll never understand.  OK I resent how easily manipulated those people can be, and sometimes are by the IFTs.  They make things so much harder than they have to be for so much longer, IME.  Unless we don't care so much?  No, they extend things, they just do, even if we don't care what they think, IME.

People don't like to listen to complaints, and so we don't complain.  The IFTs complain, and draw attention to their apparent suffering.  They garner support, and make people feel good about SUPPORTING them..... sometimes that support includes reaching out and touching us, accusing us, filing a report about us, or tipping the scales of justice outside normal rules or conduct, bc it FEEEELS good to work on the side of goodness and justice very often.  When good men work on the IFT's behalf things take so much longer to work themselves out, IME.  It's about time, and resources, IME.  It truly comes down to that at a certain point... at least for me it does.

You don't need to waste another minute thinking about your mother, Tupp.  It's your turn for attention.   It's OK to just say no more of you... it's my time, and have that be all she gets. 

Oh well...... just noticing things again. 

Lighter   
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 06, 2017, 04:17:51 AM
Ah, Lighter - I notice all of those things, too!  The attacks dressed as kindness are a huge problem; I have consistently found it very difficult to explain individual instances regarding my mum to people, because each incident on its own can be explained away as a misunderstanding or a miscommunication.  If the person I am explaining to has previously been told I am mentally ill, abusive and good at covering it up - then they take my calm, rational explanation as EVIDENCE THAT I'M LYING!  You really couldn't make it up.  It's only after years of gaining understanding with regards to verbal and emotional abuse and dysfunctional relationships, and putting together so many pieces in a puzzle, that I can see what so many fail to.  And yes, the incidents you describe - I hated his birthday and Christmas because I knew she'd send something, even though I'd asked, and then told, her not to.  Even though I didn't give him the cards or presents, it still upset me, not because she'd sent him something, but because I knew she'd sent it just to show that my opinion and my wishes didn't matter to her, she'd do what she wanted - just like she did every time she got drunk instead of reading us a story, or every time she threatened my dad with a knife in front of us, or stayed in bed in a drunken slumber while her husband got into bed with me - it's the years of everything that's gone before that surfaces, not the situation that's immediately in front of your face.

So yes, I understand your incredibly strong emotional reaction when reminded of your MIL by something as simple and every day as clothing and gardening.  Those small things can trigger so much, and there can be so much buried inside us that we don't know about and I do still find it frightening when those huge torrents crash out for what seems to be no reason at all.  But I find I do feel better afterwards, even though it might take a while, so I hope that will give you some relief as it sound like another big chunk broke away?

I feel okay.  I spoke to the educational psychologist yesterday without panicking, although I was tired and numb later in the day.  We had what felt like a good conversation.  It might not be, I've had these situations before where the report that's been written up bears no resemblance to the conversation we had but there's nothing I can do about that at this stage, I am just hoping that the universe has decided enough is enough and we get some good people thrown our way now!  My son is doing okay and that helps a lot.  Someone has offered to help me with my garden and for once I actually feel like accepting the offer.  That is a big step.

We all deserve to move forward.  It's enough, now, isn't it? :) xxx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 06, 2017, 05:11:48 AM
Just had a call from social services and it looks like we'll be having our assessments with them and Educational Psychology within the same week.  I can feel myself reacting slightly and the early signs of disassociating are there, but all I can do is keep chipping forward.  I have written a list to keep myself focused so I don't lose sight of what I'm doing today.  Small steps.  I think once these assessments are done the sense of relief is going to be huge.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on September 06, 2017, 05:21:02 AM
((((Tupp)))

Try if you can to look forward to these assessments, which are GIFTS to your life.
These are good, benevolent steps toward a happier life for you and for your boy.

Try to stay in the present, and remember, these assessments are not tests of you. You already passed those, dear, a long time ago. This is NOT the past repeating.

This is the PRESENT, and moving forward. Hold on to this truth.

Nothing to panic about. Just the good people who'll try to do a good job in their mission.
Remember, not enemies.

I know your mother's appearance rattled you, but I know your healing has been real and solid.
You can be temporarily shaken, but there's no slippery slope backward. You are not there.

You are here, and now, with all the strength you've built within yourself. It's not nothing. You are not going into battle, you are stepping into trust. Try trusting the people and the process, and I really believe you and your boy will be well taken care of in this application.

All will be well, and you need to say that to yourself over and over. It's true, but it needs your permission and encouragement to take firm root in your mind.

It's a gift to yourself and you deserve it. The old nightmares and ghosts don't need to be conjured up and relived now.

What needs to be lived is this sweet life you built, and this positive, helping process with the helpers.

love
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 06, 2017, 07:04:09 AM
((((Tupp)))

Try if you can to look forward to these assessments, which are GIFTS to your life.
These are good, benevolent steps toward a happier life for you and for your boy.

Try to stay in the present, and remember, these assessments are not tests of you. You already passed those, dear, a long time ago. This is NOT the past repeating.

This is the PRESENT, and moving forward. Hold on to this truth.

Nothing to panic about. Just the good people who'll try to do a good job in their mission.
Remember, not enemies.

I know your mother's appearance rattled you, but I know your healing has been real and solid.
You can be temporarily shaken, but there's no slippery slope backward. You are not there.

You are here, and now, with all the strength you've built within yourself. It's not nothing. You are not going into battle, you are stepping into trust. Try trusting the people and the process, and I really believe you and your boy will be well taken care of in this application.

All will be well, and you need to say that to yourself over and over. It's true, but it needs your permission and encouragement to take firm root in your mind.

It's a gift to yourself and you deserve it. The old nightmares and ghosts don't need to be conjured up and relived now.

What needs to be lived is this sweet life you built, and this positive, helping process with the helpers.

love
Hops

Hops, thank you, I really needed to hear that and I will keep reading and re-reading what you've written because it's so true.  I am trying to focus on letting people in and accepting the help they can offer, whatever it might be, and not falling into the fear and worry.  I do feel that I can acknowledge the fear but not let it take control, which is a big step forward.

Phew.  Breathe.  I did some yoga.  Lunch is on.  I'm working through my list, just to stay focused and in the present and so that, if I do zone out, at least I can read back and reassure myself of what I did today.  It will be okay.

Thank you, Hopsie xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on September 06, 2017, 09:53:39 AM
Hi Tupp:

Like Hops said.... these assessments qare leading somewhere good for you.

I understand the dread though.

(((Tupp)))

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 06, 2017, 11:12:08 AM
Hi Tupp:

Like Hops said.... these assessments qare leading somewhere good for you.

I understand the dread though.

(((Tupp)))

Lighter

Thanks, Lighter, I feel okay about it.  The Ed Psych one's actually been put back a little bit, she just called so there's a bit of space between them but I keep reminding myself, our situation is different now - son fully diagnosed and able to speak for himself to a certain extent, I have so much knowledge and information about him now and I'm very specific with regards to what help he needs, rather than the way things were when he was little when I was so scared about what might be wrong and just wanted someone to do 'something'.  Added to that, his age now means it's more about helping him in his own right rather than helping me, if that makes sense?

I do feel a bit fuzzy headed and I've had one of my mammoth afternoon naps which often happens when my system is shrieking a bit, but it's fine - we won't get through this without me wobbling but I can cope with the wobble and we'll both be okay.  My mum can kiss my arse, as we English like to say ;) lol xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on September 08, 2017, 09:13:20 AM
(((Tupp))) So glad you're feeling steady.  Maybe the unsteadiness goes away in tiny increments, and the day when we no longer wobble sneaks up when we least expect?

Until then, perseverance, intestinal fortitude, and belief in imminent victory will have to do.

Lighter

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 08, 2017, 09:18:10 AM
Well we've had our assessment with social services.  It was okayish.  Not massively helpful, quite a lot of talk about things that weren't really relevant.  The social worker had called the wrong GP for information (so didn't have any) and hadn't obtained my written consent to get copies of records from the paediatrician so didn't have any medical info and wanted me to copy my copies to give to her, which I said I couldn't do, simply because I spend so much time doing other people's jobs and if I keep saying yes they'll keep expecting me to do it.  So she's gone back with the relevant paperwork signed to do it again.

It has raised a lot of bad memories and I did end up having to explain the situation about my mum as they were asking questions about my son's early years and I couldn't really answer them properly without explaining what went on so I did have to give them an outline.  I can feel that disassociative state building up and it's quite strong so I think the next few days might be difficult.  We can't get out just now as we're looking after a friend's dog and we're waiting for them to come and collect him.  It's okay, though, I did it so it's a hurdle that I got over and hopefully another chunk of something exorcised from my system now.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on September 08, 2017, 10:48:22 AM
(((((((((((Tupp))))))))))

You did GREAT.
The bureaucrat, while inefficient, didn't bite, didn't blame.

Now neither must you, okay? Don't blame her and don't blame yourself.
You're not in danger, it's clumsily bumping along the way such things do...one step out of the way
and it was a big step for you!

I don't know how one tries not to dissociate but I hope you can. Ideas: breathe deeply, walk the pooch (leave a note on the door as to direction), and go dig in the dirt in your garden. Or whatever works for you that gets you outdoors, among life and community.

You ARE part of community. A welcome, positive, lovely person who belongs here with everyone. Right? You're not somebody who needs to hide.

SO impressed with you, Tupp. You really are doing just wonderfully.
And now it gets easier. Each step, exchange, conversation...should get easier.

Remember to stay in the present and when you must reference the hard parts of the past, keep that brief. Don't let the undertow from the past draw you down into relitigating or defending all over again. Instead....

KICK!


Rev. Jesse Jackson spoke recently. He said, Hard times don't drown you. You drown when you stop kicking.

love,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 08, 2017, 12:10:23 PM
Hi Hops, thank you :)

It's easing off now.  It's amazing how much you body remembers you being terrified in the past, even if your mind has rationalised it all.  I'm feeling better now.  Had a sleep and watched some trashy TV whilst eating biscuits :)  It's stopped raining so we're just off to take pooch out again (he's a little sweetheart, I completely understand how your pooch enriches your life so much).  I would love a dog myself but at the moment it is still just that bit too much of a commitment, both in terms of time and money.  But yes, that absolute love just because you give them a walk and a bit of a cuddle!  How amazing.

Anyway, yes, I'm glad it's done, that was a big hurdle to get over and we're over it now, I'm slowly coming back down to earth, just heard from a friend that she's finally kicked her cheating a hole of a husband out, sad for her that it's had to happen but glad she's finally done it, he's been doing this for years now and she deserves so much better.

Onwards and upwards.  Thank you so much, everyone, you have really helped me start putting my life back together, I can't thank you all enough :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 09, 2017, 02:47:12 PM
I'm just dumping this here as I feel I need to put it down somewhere; I just don't feel like I can do this anymore.  I am so wiped out with having to cope so constantly, and having to deal with these huge amounts of 'stuff' coming up when we have these interactions with these people I can't stand but have to interact with because of my son.  I am just so tired and so fed up with having to manage so much on my own.  I'm not sleeping well so the days feel even longer and even harder.  We went to see a friend this afternoon; his kids were rushing around shouting and playing, my son was chattering away about Lego, my friend was playing his guitar and I felt no pleasure in any of it.  I didn't want to be there, or be around people, or have to make the effort to engage with the kids or talk to my friend.  I feel so dead and empty inside and I just don't have the energy to keep trying to move forward.  If I rest, I feel lonely.  If I keep busy, I feel tired.  I feel bereft of hope and that's a big change for me.  I've always been certain that some big change will come, if only I keep trying, keep moving forward, keep keeping on.  And I don't feel like that now.  I feel that, no matter what I do, or how hard I work, I am stuck in this endless cycle of dependence simply because my son is and I can't separate one from the other.  I feel consigned to the rest of my life being hard work, low income, little pleasure and having to settle and make do.  I don't think I've ever felt this catastrophically hopeless before.  I know there's nothing anyone can do, I just needed to put it somewhere.  I feel like I need to cry but I just can't make the tears come.  I even sat watching You Tube clips of rescue dogs transforming from terrified animals into loving pets; that usually sets me off but I just can't seem to feel anything or make anything happen.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on September 09, 2017, 06:46:49 PM
Oh (((((((Tupp)))))))).
You're absolutely exhausted, hon. That's what it is.
You have been facing some very old and very powerful fears to move your lives forward.
You've done it despite what it's cost you and how deep you've had to dig.

It's no wonder you're numb.

But that doesn't make the bleak hopeless thoughts your brain is churning through true.
They're not true.

Nature and each day each step each piece WILL move you through it.

Don't trust your powers of negative prediction. That's fatigue and burnout talking.
It's not real, even though it's how you feel.

I'll have faith for you, since right now you're too tired to lift up your own.

It WILL return.

I really do hope you can soon have a return visit to your T.
This is a very arduous stage of things to go through on sheer pluck and on your own.

Think of all the women abused by one situation or another before you and beside you who have walked all the way through. You are doing it, too.

Even the greatest runner sometimes sits on the curb with their head hanging, utterly spent.
The force of life knows how to refill you. Wait for it, and trust on its reality. Your despairing thoughts ....even though they truthfully speak your emotions in the moment, they will move through.

Trust. Rest. Soup.

love,
Hops

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on September 10, 2017, 11:08:02 PM
(((((Tupp))))))

Just checking in with you.
You were in the eye of the hurricane, numb dark deep lonesome.

How are you now?

Circulation coming back? Unspecific hope is fine. Watch for it.

I'm mentally sitting with you, waiting for dawn.

love to you
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 11, 2017, 04:14:37 AM
Thank you, Hops, I do appreciate it, I just can't write much at the mo.  I feel like a ghost, just completely empty inside.  I feel like I've dug as deep as I can manage and now there's just nowhere else to go.  I am going through the motions, getting things done.  I helped a friend move some things yesterday, it was good to be occupied with mindless physical activity so I am just trying to potter about and get little jobs done that don't require too much engagement with reality.  I will try and write more later, sorry, thank you xx xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on September 11, 2017, 07:13:59 AM
:waving: Hi Tupp!

I haven't been able to drop in much - very busy here because it seems winter is going to be early this year and the guys are really pushing to finish the projects around here.

It sounds like you're learning your own emotional "language" now - and it's telling you to rest. Do the necessary things. If mindless work feels good - pull weeds or dust. Let your schedule adapt as much as possible around refilling your emotional "well". You done good, kiddo!! Now take care of yourself - as much because you really want to, as because no one else can do it as well as you can.

I also know that feeling of absolute total need for someone to care FOR - not just about - me. Life just hasn't quite always worked out that way for me - first the n-mom who couldn't care less; a couple awkward husbands that resembled her in ways I couldn't recognize - losing Mike - and actually learning to just talk to the cat and let her be my "cuddle buddy". On her terms. I think if we really put our objective minds to what this feeling is all about... we find that it's one of the prime human interactions and there just isn't enough of it in this life.

So, what HELPS, sometimes... is to try to make more of it. Really be present during all the little interactions you have with people - the strangers, the check-out cashiers, people you chat with online... even the bureaucrats. Hold that feeling while interacting... and being present lets you channel some of feeling TO them... in the process, allowing you to also feel cared for - because that's what the feeling is. It also helps with that sense of disassociation; because it's CONNECTION.

I know when you're overwhelmed with your own need, it seems the total opposite to try giving as a means of having your own need met. But it's "magic"; it works. Most of the time. Because you're making more of the "caring for" feeling to go around. And it will come back to you - when you least expect it, and sometimes when you need it most.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on September 11, 2017, 09:38:28 AM
No pressure to write or acknowledge posts when you don't feel up to it, Tupp!

Just know somebody across the pond is sending some comfort. I like Amber's present-practice advice, too.

I'm glad you're not trying to project a perky, positive, persistent image when you are exactly NOT feeling that way at the moment. Empty is empty. Refilling does take time. Nature knows how.

Sometimes we hit bottom and bounce; other times we sit on the bottom a while. But I hope you'll consider that you just fell into a pit of depression...and seriously, please seek some ftf help. Whether it's the T or a free group nearby, don't stay alone with this as natural as doing that may feel.

(I just self-isolated all weekend for a similar though much less acute reason. Always backfires.)

Just kick up enough, okay?

love,
Hops

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on September 11, 2017, 04:07:36 PM
Hi Tupp:

I think I can relate, in a way,to what you described, Tupp.  I just couldn't imagine another day of what I was doing.... It felt  like my entire chest locked up, and denied energy and oxygen I needed to put one foot in front of the other.  My feet knew they wouldn't move again.  I'd tapped all my tanks, even my reserves, and there was nothing left when I wasn't driven by adrenaline, IME.  The battles were essentially over, and that meant change.

I remember sitting back and taking stock..... what if I couldn't go through another day of doing things because I HAD TO?

What if I could choose to STOP doing doing doing in that moment? And it was a choice I could make.  Any of us can make.  We choose daily.

That seemed to do a pretty good job unblocking whatever had bound my chest, and lungs and oxygen supply.  Things felt lighter almost immediately once I realized I'd been living from one HAVE TO to the next.  Breathing felt easier.  Things flowed again, opposed to my having to gut my way through, and steel myself one minute to the next.  Of course there are many levels of living under siege, and steeling oneself.  I'm just saying, THIS, what you're feeling, might be another level, IME. 

I can still feel everything lock up in my chest and just stop.... mainly when I remember the things that bystanders did to harm me and my children.  We've posted about that on this thread.  You've invited a bystander into your home to assess you.... HUGE TRIGGERY TRAUMA BOMBS, BATMAN!

Just pushing through it, like we've all HAD to do in the past to come out as whole as can be managed, at some point isn't an option anymore, IME.  Things change. Less pressure ON US means we expand, and take on new forms.  We have to learn how to SEE the world when the tunnel vision clears, IME. Learn how to navigate in these new forms, with different chemicals coursing through us, with our vision expanding, IME. 

I think you're seeing your life as it is, after a rest of sorts,  but the SHOULDs and the HAVE TOs are crushing down (just the same as if you were still living under siege?)  I remember FEELING that not too long ago.  I do.

Without the siege, things change, even though we don't notice till they're sitting on our chests making it impossible to breath, IME.

Once my youngest dd said "I know it doesn't make sense, but it makes sense to me." She was about 5yo I guess, and she knew SHE KNEW what she said made perfect sense to her.

I don't know if what I wrote will make sense to you, but I hope it helps in some small way to bring oxygen and energy your way.

(((Tupp)))

Lighter

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 11, 2017, 04:08:39 PM
Thank you both, it is a really big help and I do appreciate it.  I have just had the most amazing night out and I can't tell you what a difference it has made.  It's really shown me that my biggest problem is spending so much time alone and having so little fun.  It was a friend's birthday.  She was supposed to be going out for dinner with her hubby, but just last week found out he'd had another affair and so she threw him out.  I went round to see her at the weekend and she was absolutely heartbroken.  So I suggested we went out for dinner this evening, with the kids, really just so she didn't sit in on her own.

She really got onboard with the idea so she invited some other friends as well.  We went to a very nice, friendly local pub, six women and four kids ranging in age from 15 to 7.  I honestly haven't laughed so much in years and I sat there thinking, this is what I want - six strong, feisty, joke cracking women, all just enjoying spending time together.  The kids were so good, they really enjoyed themselves as well, we had lovely food and the girls working in the pub were just the sweetest and couldn't have been nicer - they reminded me of my younger self when I had lots of bounce and happy attitude and did a lot of pub and waitressing work.

It was such a tonic.  There's no getting away from the fact I'm exhausted, or that money's tight, or that the pressure of looking after my son is getting too much for me.  But this evening really did show me that there is something else out there.  I don't think I've laughed like that in the last decade.  It was wonderful, and we all said we ought to make it a regular thing, although maybe without the kids so we can let our hair down.

Anyway - I'm off to bed.  I don't feel quite in the land of the living yet but I don't feel like throwing myself under a bus anymore either.  Thank you for being there and being so supportive.  I really do appreciate it so much, all of you.  Thank you.

Love Tupp xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 11, 2017, 04:09:45 PM
Lighter I think you posted at the same time that I did - I'll reply properly tomorrow.  Thank you :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on September 11, 2017, 08:14:21 PM
Oh that is AWESOME.

Mega cheers for pub night!

So so so tickled to hear about that, Tupp.
Thank the lawd. You allowed life back in.

 :D :D :D :D :D

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 12, 2017, 02:45:11 AM
Oh that is AWESOME.

Mega cheers for pub night!

So so so tickled to hear about that, Tupp.
Thank the lawd. You allowed life back in.

 :D :D :D :D :D

Hugs
Hops

Well I think life came and grabbed me last night rather than me looking for it, Hopsie, I felt like I'd been run over yesterday and in all honesty if I hadn't been the one to suggest it (which I only did because of the situation with my friend's hubby) I would have cancelled; I really wasn't sure if I would get through the evening!  But it just shows how different life can be depending on the people you have in it.  There was so much talking and laughing but without anyone monopolising the conversation and endlessly talking about their problems, the laughter flowed so easily but without being aimed at anyone or having an unkind edge to it as come sometimes happen, the ladies who were drinking got merry and were happy drunks, instead of that 'oh no, she's got to the bottom of the first bottle' feeling that you have with some people.  The thing I love about them is that they're the sort of people who are very open and laid back about disability which means their kids don't bat an eyelid at my son's problems, he's just part of their little crew and they all sat at their own table, three of them on devices and my son writing his stories, as he does!  It was so lovely and I'd definitely go out with them again, or even have them all over to mine if I can't get a sitter.  It was just such a nice experience for life to be enjoyable, rather than the endless endurance test it seems to be over and over again.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 12, 2017, 03:06:18 AM
Hi Tupp:

I think I can relate, in a way,to what you described, Tupp.  I just couldn't imagine another day of what I was doing.... It felt  like my entire chest locked up, and denied energy and oxygen I needed to put one foot in front of the other.  My feet knew they wouldn't move again.  I'd tapped all my tanks, even my reserves, and there was nothing left when I wasn't driven by adrenaline, IME.  The battles were essentially over, and that meant change.

I remember sitting back and taking stock..... what if I couldn't go through another day of doing things because I HAD TO?

What if I could choose to STOP doing doing doing in that moment? And it was a choice I could make.  Any of us can make.  We choose daily.

That seemed to do a pretty good job unblocking whatever had bound my chest, and lungs and oxygen supply.  Things felt lighter almost immediately once I realized I'd been living from one HAVE TO to the next.  Breathing felt easier.  Things flowed again, opposed to my having to gut my way through, and steel myself one minute to the next.  Of course there are many levels of living under siege, and steeling oneself.  I'm just saying, THIS, what you're feeling, might be another level, IME. 

I can still feel everything lock up in my chest and just stop.... mainly when I remember the things that bystanders did to harm me and my children.  We've posted about that on this thread.  You've invited a bystander into your home to assess you.... HUGE TRIGGERY TRAUMA BOMBS, BATMAN!

Just pushing through it, like we've all HAD to do in the past to come out as whole as can be managed, at some point isn't an option anymore, IME.  Things change. Less pressure ON US means we expand, and take on new forms.  We have to learn how to SEE the world when the tunnel vision clears, IME. Learn how to navigate in these new forms, with different chemicals coursing through us, with our vision expanding, IME. 

I think you're seeing your life as it is, after a rest of sorts,  but the SHOULDs and the HAVE TOs are crushing down (just the same as if you were still living under siege?)  I remember FEELING that not too long ago.  I do.

Without the siege, things change, even though we don't notice till they're sitting on our chests making it impossible to breath, IME.

Once my youngest dd said "I know it doesn't make sense, but it makes sense to me." She was about 5yo I guess, and she knew SHE KNEW what she said made perfect sense to her.

I don't know if what I wrote will make sense to you, but I hope it helps in some small way to bring oxygen and energy your way.

(((Tupp)))

Lighter

Yes, it does make sense, Lighter, I think where we are at the minute has brought a huge range of (generally unpleasant) things to the fore.  It's the energy required to deal with the unpleasant things (and to try to deal with them in a reasonably healthy way, instead of just drinking to the point of oblivion) whilst also dealing with day to day life which for us is hard work, lonely and usually not a lot of fun (last night being the exception!).

I feel a sense of failure.  I haven't managed to cure my son's problems, or make enough money to easily pay for everything he needs.  I haven't got us out of the country into a safer, more inclusive place to live where we won't have this constant fight.  Our government has demonised the disabled for the last seven years and taken apart fifty year's worth of disability rights action.  Approximately ten thousand disabled people have died within weeks of being declared fit for work and having their benefits taken away.  Some have killed themselves.  Homelessness is leaping up at a terrifying rate; everywhere you go now there are people sleeping in doorways or sat at the side of the road with all their wordly belongings in a carrier bag beside them.  The British public, generally speaking, couldn't give a shit.  Racism is huge here now; people openly say and do things that a decade ago seemed to be relics of a bygone time.  The vote to leave the EU has already seen a huge drop in the numbers of Europeans coming here to work.  The NHS and the care industry - both of which we will rely on heavily - have seen a big drop in the number of staff they have and they can't recruit new ones, because people are going to work in other EU countries instead.  Local authorities have had their funding cut by as much as fifty percent in real terms in some places, which massively reduces the support they can offer.  Added to which food and petrol prices keep climbing, as do charges for gas and electric.  Sorry to get all political, but generally speaking the future is very. very bleak - and people keep voting for more of the same.  It's a terrifying time to be a disabled person.

So that's the general background.  Added to that my son requires twenty four hour care, which I've always done on my own.  There hasn't been easy time for self care since he was born.  I don't tend to see people unless I go out, which is difficult to do.  I feel the pressure of our flat now, as it still needs decorating and carpeting, and our furniture is old and worn out.  Our garden needs a lot of work and I need to patch up our van as best I can so I can sell it.  Add to all of that the triggers of social workers coming into our home, and just my general frustration of dealing with the public sector who work hard to say no to you, rather than working hard to find a way to help, and having to keep explaining things over and over again, and I really just feel I'm at the end of my rope now.

But ..... last night was good.  I haven't woken up feeling great, or positive, or like we've any hope for the future, but I do feel better than I did yesterday.  What I really want to do is get on with writing my book about all the things that have happened over the years, but I know the triggers from that will be huge, which is why I want to get everything else settled, so that when I do it, I can just focus on that and not have to worry about anything else.  I feel better than I did yesterday.  Maybe I'll feel better again tomorrow xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on September 12, 2017, 06:54:28 AM
I agree Tupp, moments of joy don't make bleak realities any less real.
They just remind me that loving and connecting with other people in general is what gives me the strength to go forward ANYWAY. Politics and insanity ANYWAY.

There will always be human happiness.

I may have told this story here, but right after 9/11 it hit me what kind of a world all our children were coming into, and I was wringing my hands and sharing my worries with a 95 y/o friend, a classics professor. He finally said, to my surprise, "You know, I agree with you. Western civilization is on its decline. But you see, that's what civilizations do. They rise, and they fall. Yet each generation finds the capacity to deal with whatever horrors it's dealt. And there will always, always be human happiness."

Remembering that -- that last line -- has been a big consolation to me at times. Politics, poverty have both hit home here where I live in acute ways. I realize that a "fresh horror" for me (9/11, Trump, resurgent racism here, and climate change near or past the tipping point) is my generation's. Previously, people had to assimilate the horrors of the holocaust and the human invention and deployment of the atomic bomb.

When I look at any handful of these generations' horrors (ours is all of the above plus terrorism) I find them each absolutely overwhelming at times. But I can still have the capacity to love my fellows, and let my heart open up to simple human warmth, kindness, and being present in that moment. Instead of only in the tragic past and terrifying future.

I don't do it often enough nor do it well. But that's what I think keeps me going. Plus, the realization that I predict negativity and don't allow for the equal possibility of good things happening. That takes me to Victor Frankl's idea of how to make meaning.

I felt joy at thinking of you being in the pub present, even though I know it doesn't fix your world.

love,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 12, 2017, 07:31:43 AM
Hops, yes, I agree with all of that - a bit more fun human interaction would make it easier for me to cope with all the things that I feel very powerless to do anything about and the inequality we have to live by.  I think the changes I've seen have shocked me.  I always felt very fortunate and privileged to be born into this first world country where everyone had the same rights and vulnerable people were looked after.  I wasn't naive enough to think it was perfect, but when I was a teenager racism was considered naff; if was something that the older generation had because they hadn't been given enough information and it was something that everyone was moving away from.  The same was true of people with disabilities, gay people, etc etc.  I feel like I live in a completely different country now, one where rights are the preserve of the wealthy or of criminals with good lawyers.  I am slagged off now for believing we're all equal and we all deserve the same chances.  People have referred to me as 'soft' because I believe wealthy countries should help victims of war, primarily by avoiding selling the weapons that destroy their homes, ideally.  My views are largely the same now as they were thirty years ago, yet thirty years ago I was considered 'normal' and now I'm considered 'extreme left wing'.

I do feel the weight of it so acutely, both the wider picture and my own day to day struggles.  But a good night out, a good laugh, time with friends that only want to enjoy my company, yes, that was such a luxury and one that I want to enjoy more often, even if it does little in practical terms to help those who are bearing the brunt of the changes within our current civilization (which no longer feels civilized to me).

On a more day to day level, I've plodded through the morning getting jobs done.  I've dyed my hair; I do find the disappearance of the grey hairs lifts my spirits when I feel low :)  The sun is shining so we're going out for a walk in a little while.  Our little friendly dog has moved away so we will have to find a new one to take out :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on September 12, 2017, 08:32:45 AM
I'm with you! I frequently write comments in the Washington Post, where at least reading others I find a host of caring, educated kindred spirits. You deserve a community of free thinking, anti-oppression people, too. I think the "village" atmosphere where you live is generally much less progressive than you are. Once your son's safely involved in college it should be a lot easier for you to find newer, larger social circles that feed and support this side of you.

Outrage and grief is exhausting but as ever, it's other people (and MOST humans are kind) who can lift us back up to our feet again.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on September 13, 2017, 07:13:43 AM
Fwiw, I just read this quote from an interview with Brad Pitt (I'm not particularly a fan but love this quote). It seems to be saying the same thing my classics prof friend did. (He walked around thinking about ancient Greece and Rome all day, he probably actually thought in Latin.) And R&B has always been my favorite music along with classical:

Quote
You've played characters in pain. What is pain, emotional and physical?
Yeah, I'm kind of done playing those. I think it was more pain tourism. It was still an avoidance in some way. I've never heard anyone laugh bigger than an African mother who's lost nine family members. What is that? I just got R&B for the first time. R&B comes from great pain, but it's a celebration. To me, it's embracing what's left. It's that African woman being able to laugh much more boisterously than I've ever been able to.

Embracing what's left. I guess the secret is in feeling the presence of what IS (left). When I can spend hours reviewing what's gone or never arrived.

I need to think about this more. A lot more. Preaching to myself, Tupp, but your thread has helped me ask myself some of the same questions you're dealing with.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on September 13, 2017, 03:45:21 PM
Just going to let this ramble out... it's a musing... about what I know, from what I've been through.

Life is a gift. No matter how much one has lost, suffered - the intensity of it; the endlessness of it; no matter what. Life always has beauty in it (see: Navajo "Beauty Way"). Even when emotionally, we've shrunk our vision down into our immediate experience of wretched moment to fearful moment to uncertainty. Life does it's own thing; it's always got beauty in it - whether we're seeing it or not.

When I have those moments of paralysis - should I or shouldn't I? or Fear - if I say/do "X" then I fear these consequences.... (which are ALWAYS based on a set of circumstances that don't exist anymore except in my mind)......... when this happens, Life doesn't change. My ability to tune in and see/feel/hear the beauty in it does. There is even beauty in sadness; grief.

This is not to in any way say that there's something wrong with us, during those times we just can't tune in. We're human; sometimes we CAN'T - for whatever reason. But we can nurture the desire to tune in... so that we return to that wavelength easier & quicker. Over much practice... many days... trying & failing & trying again.

There's "treasure" in getting to know one's losses; seeing it from as many sides as possible; knowing one's own grief... and darkness of soul times. But I don't think we're meant to stay there. I wouldn't willingly CHOOSE to stay there... so I assume it's possible to move from that to a different "frequency".

That's how I think about this, anyway.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 14, 2017, 01:32:39 PM
Do you think it's possible to dump your entire life and start again?  Just shout "bollocks!" to every problem, every doubt, every bad experience and go back to the beginning to start over?

I have spent the last three days either paralyzed on the sofa, feeling so angry I could stab someone, crying in a heap on the floor or wishing I was dead.  I am so sick of this happening to me, no matter how hard I work at it, how much therapy I have, how much effort I put into managing it or controlling it, there are still times when it knocks me sideways and I literally feel like I have no control over my brain, or my emotions.

And that got me thinking about my younger self.  That poor, lonely, frightened kid who desperately wanted to fit in, and feel loved, and be like the other kids, but who was geeky and awkward, clever but hid it because it wasn't trendy, whose ideas and hopes and dreams were always laughed at and ridiculed and had to cope with her father's death without any support and the subsequent abuse by her stepfather without letting anyone know, because her primary aim was to protect her mum?

I can remember the dreams I had for myself and what I loved to do - music, both playing and listening to, dancing, singing, acting, writing, theatre, art.  I wanted to make my own clothes, learn about stage make up, make costumes.  So many things and the encouragement was always zero.  The lady that lived down the road from us used to tell me how much she enjoyed listening to me play my clarinet while she was sitting in the garden in the evening; she said it was like being at a concert without having to leave the house.  My mum used to say she was a sad twat with nothing better to do.  Why are we so influenced by the negative comments and much less so by the positive ones?

So is it possible?  Can you through it all away and go back to those childhood dreams and start doing things that you enjoy, just because you enjoy them?  Can you fit that in with kids and work and money issues, and things like dealing with the shitstorm that was waiting in my inbox for me this evening and the snotty lady I had to speak to on the phone earlier?  I'm drinking to cope.  I feel completely dead inside.  Every nerve and every part of my brain is screaming at me to run and never come back to this.  Can it be done?  Can you merge the past with the present and erase the bad bits so they don't keep coming up over and over and driving you insane?
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on September 14, 2017, 06:07:26 PM
Quote
Do you think it's possible to dump your entire life and start again?  Just shout "bollocks!" to every problem, every doubt, every bad experience and go back to the beginning to start over

Asking myself this, my answer is No. I don't believe I can do that. I understand the longing, for sure.

Quote
thinking about my younger self...

Me, too, from time to time. But less, these days. Her anguish simmered inside me until I was well into my 50s. During the last decade, I've been so intentional about deliberate self-compassion, especially for the sad/lonely child within me, that I think she's begun to let me go. To allow me to live in my present age, without calling to me, Come and rescue me from what happened! She knows I can't (she was smart) and she has now kind of blended into me. Not just her pain but her insight, joy, sweetness, perceptive observation, compassion.... she was more than her pain and victimization.

I think I just had to convince her that over time, I was going to love her, more and more kindly, more and more gently, more and more deliberately and patiently. Love her so well that ultimately, she could be free to let go of her place in my psyche, and yield more space for my present adult, who is less traumatized than she was.

Quote
Can you through it all away....
I don't believe I can undo my memories but do believe I can learn not to live inside them

Quote
and go back to those childhood dreams

I don't believe I can go back to them as a child would...

Quote
and start doing things that you enjoy, just because you enjoy them?
  In the present, as my adult self, I absolutely believe I can do this, ONE thing at a time...

Quote
Can you fit that in ....
Oof. That's a very hard one and maybe the crux of the whole stress that can melt me down sometimes. And I have way less stress than you do, Tupp. I think with enough loving support of yourself, caring about yourself, getting HELP so you're not alone with yourself....yes you can fit (some of) it in. Not all of it, of course. But more. And I truly think despite how it feels this week, that you are going to a place/space/time when there WILL be room for you. And some of your dreams.

Quote
Can you merge the past with the present and erase the bad bits so they don't keep coming up over and over and driving you insane?
For me, the bad bits haven't been erased. I know that they came up over and over for many years. For me, the only thing that began to feel different than this cycle (which I too was in) was after that intentional encounter with my inner child self I've mentioned here so many times. When I "met" her and gave her love, and promised to never abandon her again...she began her healing. And I mine.

That's what merged. Not the bad bits evaporating, but as the bad bits' healing continues, the present good bits began to have more oxygen. So now they grow or radiate more easily. I can (not perfectly or consistently) more often feel balanced between present-good, past-bad, present-bad-but-not-actual-helpless-childhood, past-is-like-a-novel (I can ponder the characters with more distance now)....etc.

That last mishmash of a paragraph is pretty much my estimate of what the reality would be, for me, of wishing to
Quote
throw my old life away and start anew, all dreams intact.

Modified dreams, and learning to love them. That's what life is more like now. Making peace with it all, and then slowly moving beyond peace to gratitude.

I'm very sorry for this triggered bout of anguish Tupp...it's so very understandable.

love to you,
Hops





Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on September 14, 2017, 09:12:05 PM
Ahh, Hops. 

Embracing what is left.  YES.

Tupp, when I was talking about not having to do anymore.... I was talking about what had become of my life under the pressure of unfair, improbable, completely insane pressure from people who should have been supporting and caring for us in our lives.

Simply getting through my daily ablutions.... chop and carry wood... was usurped emotionally by the struggle, and sometimes those perpetrating it.

Once things calmed down, I had to tease apart what was IT/the struggle, and what was us/me again.  Me/US without the struggle was something I wasn't used to.  I hardly remembered what it was until I was there, feeling my face pressed against the glass, trying to SEE us again without struggle, kwim?

I think saying to myself.... I don't HAVE to do anything anymore, ever, was me putting down the struggle, then deciding what parts of my life I would pick back up.  I didn't choose to pick up my life framed in the old struggle.  It was a visceral difference FOR ME.    Sure, my life was in pieces.  It still is, frankly, but just like you having that lovely night out with friends.... things start coming back.  Joy presents itself again.  We FEEEL hope, and better things slide into our lives, but on their own terms, in their own time.  Not in gulps and gasps, but what it once was, IME.  It's familiar.  It's a huge sigh of relief, IME. 

I'm sorry you aren't residing in the glow of your night out with friends.  It was lovely.  I remember how it made me feel just to read about it. 

Lately I've been listening to music from the 80s, and days, and events come sliding back in.  Days I would otherwise never think about again.  I can honestly say it FEELS really good to feel that young again.  I remember that I had different dreams, and energy, and strengths that have perhaps grown dim, and it's a happy thing for me.  I sing LOUDLY in the car.  I sometimes sing angrily, or softly... and I think it helps to just get things OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT. 

You're not alone much.  You've been controlled for so many years, putting up a sane, strong, consistent front for your son.  When do you get to beat your chest and HAVE your emotions?  Let them out, and give them voice? 

You never get to put yo0urself first.  After so many years of running on empty, THIS crisis is a messenger, IME.  It's drawing your attention.  Giving it mindful care is painful.  Growth is painful. 

You can't go back to being a child.  You can't change what's happened, but you can  learn from it, seek joy now, and build on lovely times for yourself.  Remember the night out with friends, and know there's more. 
Lighter

 
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 15, 2017, 12:49:02 PM
Sorry not to have replied to posts individually.  I have been reading, although I don't seem to be taking much in at the minute.  I do appreciate you all taking the trouble to post, thank you so much.

I am feeling slightly less broken today than I did yesterday.  I feel like the Universe is screaming at me, there are good things, there are good things.  The nice evening out on Monday.  All of you with your kind words and thoughts.  The educational psychologist who called me, out of hours, yesterday evening, to talk me down out of the enormous state I'd got myself into and reassure me that things are positive for my son, it's just too soon for them to say that formally yet.  Today a friend came round this morning, offered me a free car once I've got rid of my van and told me to ring her anytime I need to, day or night.  Kind, reassuring and unencumbered with strings or conditional offers.  We caught the train into town and chatted to a lady that works in the local shop, had lunch in a friendly cafe where the staff always welcome us and then went to visit another friend and enjoyed tea and home made scones with her little grandchildren; the baby is the cutest boy and you just want to cover his cheeks in jam and eat him.  A nice man gave up his seat for my son on the way home and the sun has been shining.  English autumns are stunning.  I can see it all but I can't feel anything yet.  I'm completely numb and I feel like I'm watching everything from a safe distance.  I hear my voice and it feels like someone else is speaking.  But so many nice things happened today I do feel like the universe is reaching out to me and trying to get me to hold on.  So I will keep trying.

We got home to find the parcel from my mum has arrived.  My son didn't see it.  There is a note in there to me telling me not to go screaming to her for his money, from her friends and relatives that I wanted nothing to do with.  I had to cut off contact with most of the family to keep him safe from her.  A couple of aunts have been able to maintain some contact without sticking their noses in which has worked fine.  I don't want a penny of her money, she stick every last coin up her arse.  I chucked it all in the bin without looking at it, apart from the note which has gone into the 'just in case we get to the point of an injunction' box.

Will this affect me again?  Possibly, but maybe being so numb at the moment will stop that from happening.  I wanted to buy some booze on the way home but didn't.  I know it's a slippery slope so I don't want to fall too far down that rabbit hole.

It did occur to me that I need to try and reorganise our days around going out and having fun.  We didn't go anywhere for so long because he was ill, I've kind of forgotten how to do it.  So I think planning a little adventure on the bus or the train needs to be our priority for a while, particularly on these nice days as they might not be too plentiful from hereon in.

Anyway, thank you for being there and listening and your lovely non judgemental posts.  I appreciate you all more than I can every put into words.  Thank you xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on September 15, 2017, 02:58:19 PM
I can imagine....

hearing little Tupp and you simultaneously; your anguished: NOT AGAIN. Little Tupp's fear of the repetition of the past... your frustration & anger - that after all your work to have a better life, she's baaaaaaaaacccckkkk. What a yucky, traumatic, horrible set of feelings you must be fending off. C'mere and get a great big ole "it's going to be OK" hug, sweetie!
----------------------

Here's why I can make such a broad, encompassing, trite & cliche statement about someone I've not even met face to face:

You already know these feelings inside and out; you KNOW they're a normal reaction to crazy-making, controlling people. You don't need to spend anymore time with them, than is necessary for them to move on. And feelings DO move on. What you're doing, is exactly right to help them pass.

The other reason, is you and Little Tupp are looking at re-claiming old dreams, in a present context. You HAVE a future mapped out - one that allows for discovery and exploration and adapting Little Tupp's dreams into what is possible for you - NOW. The old bat can't take that away from either one of you. So there Old Bat.

You are again, doing the right things - you've already fought these battles once; you're experienced now - at dealing with her forbidden intrusion into your life. The fact that she did so - doesn't mean she wins; you lose. NOPE. You are practicing now - knowing we simply can't control people like that - practicing how to not let her upset your journey. Some days are easier than others. My mom upset the crap out of me, while I was racing to get moved -- and as a consequence, I left all my bank checks behind. Found 'em a month later when we picked up the very last load. This is after years & years of dealing with her and my reaction to her. It still happens that she can knock me sideways too.

And it's OK. I'm allergic to crazy people is all. Extremely allergic! Life-threateningly so, if I forget to apply all the skills I've learned for protecting my SELF from the worst of the effects. You're doing good, remembering them. The funky feelings will pass. You'll come back stronger because of dealing with it yet again, I know you will. You've already set that pattern for yourself.

I have confidence that when you come up for sunshine & fresh air again - inspiration will strike and you will find your way to resuming your journey to your future, despite the forbidden intrusion and you'll be more ready to deal with it the next time - while releasing the undue conditioned responses you have to them.

There is lots of crazy in the world. And we're not responsible for fixing it thank goodness! But we can protect ourselves, build the invisible force field to protect ourselves from it... practice not letting it trigger our old, not so healthy reflex reactions. We practice... and spend years trying to master it... because we're real human beings who AREN'T crazy; don't WANT to control anyone else but ourselves (that's a handful most of the time anyway - LOL)... and we go easy on ourselves, when it's harder than usual.

(yeah, that's the professorial "we" coming out again... LOL. Still not permanently fixed.)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 15, 2017, 03:49:01 PM
Thank you, Skep :)  I have read, and will re-read, just not up to writing long replies at the mo.  But from hereon in she will be referred to as 'Old Bat' :) Lol xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on September 16, 2017, 11:31:43 AM
(((((Tupp)))), I feel such respect about your decision not to buy booze. And gladness.

I am so sorry you experienced that deep, dark, weary breakdown.
But you expressed it. You didn't harm yourself or anyone else. Bravo.

I don't know why a friend offered you a free car and no-strings support but I'm so glad she did. (Maybe you reached out on social media?). Whatever caused it, if you expressed your anguish in a way that brought real-world support to you...that was honest and wise and real. Bravo to you, and I hope you take her up on it. Don't let shame stop you--people don't make offers like that unless they're able to sit and talk.

Meanwhile, thinking of you daily. I know you are not fragile, and the salvos from your toxic mother just broke through. Her timing was as nasty as her personality is, but she is truly powerless.

I hope after rest and self-care and kindness directed inward daily, some energy and hope will creep into your heart. One golden thread at a time. And knit you up again.

It's possible to wind up stronger at the broken places.

(I don't need an individual response...when you're drained it's too hard).

love to you,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on September 16, 2017, 02:59:15 PM
I don't need a response either, Tupp. I just wanted to send you some care and encouragement. You take all the time you need to sort this out. After all these years, I don't think any of us are going anywhere. 

Hey, if you like "old bat".... maybe we can come up with some other names for "she who must not spoken of by name"! Call me childish - but even something as tiny as this - can help you see how much power you really have over her attempts to un-nerve you.

More HUGS! More hugs for Tupps & Little Tupps!
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 16, 2017, 05:11:02 PM
(((((Tupp)))), I feel such respect about your decision not to buy booze. And gladness.

I am so sorry you experienced that deep, dark, weary breakdown.
But you expressed it. You didn't harm yourself or anyone else. Bravo.

I don't know why a friend offered you a free car and no-strings support but I'm so glad she did. (Maybe you reached out on social media?). Whatever caused it, if you expressed your anguish in a way that brought real-world support to you...that was honest and wise and real. Bravo to you, and I hope you take her up on it. Don't let shame stop you--people don't make offers like that unless they're able to sit and talk.

Meanwhile, thinking of you daily. I know you are not fragile, and the salvos from your toxic mother just broke through. Her timing was as nasty as her personality is, but she is truly powerless.

I hope after rest and self-care and kindness directed inward daily, some energy and hope will creep into your heart. One golden thread at a time. And knit you up again.

It's possible to wind up stronger at the broken places.

(I don't need an individual response...when you're drained it's too hard).

love to you,
Hops

Hops, I feel fine today.  I honestly felt like I had been possessed by some sort of evil demon these last however many days.  I didn't feel that I had any control or impact on anything I could say or do.  Yesterday I felt very numb, but I could see there were good things around me.  Today I woke up feeling almost normal - tired, a bit whiplashed, but okay.  I decided to start decorating my son's bedroom and have spent the day filling holes in the walls and sanding down what needed sanding, ready to start painting tomorrow.  It's still useable while it's being painted so I don't need to rush.  I also rearranged a little nook outside by the front door so I have somewhere nice to sit with a coffee in the morning and cleared some space in the shed ready to unload things from the van.  It has been a quietly productive day and I feel okay.  Thank you :)

The friend just happened to pop in yesterday morning as she'd been to the shop in the village and called to see if I was home.  During the course of our chatting she said to call her any time, she's always happy to help.  That was nice.  She recently threw her husband out, after discovering he's had yet another affair.  He had a car that she had paid for which he left behind, so it's currently sitting on her drive, unused.  She recently received an inheritance after her mum passed away so she's good for cash at the mo, which is why she said she was happy for me to have it.  As kind an offer as it is, I was actually quite looking forward to using the bus and train.  I find it more relaxing than driving and I think I need to sit and watch the world go by more.  So I think I will probably say no thank you, but what a lovely offer.  Such kindness.

Yes I'm glad I didn't buy any booze as well.  I didn't even go too mad on the biscuits, either!  Lol.  I did some chicken in the oven with lemons so it's lovely and juicy with a lemony tang and a big pot of kale, broccoli, mange tout and spinach, with a little garlic.  Made enough for tomorrow and have enough bits in the fridge to do a mushroom and spinach pasta thingy tomorrow as well to put in the freezer.  Made banana bread to satisfy my sweet tooth and to use up the bananas that have gone very soft while I've been in my cave.

I'm doing okay.  Thank you :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 16, 2017, 05:15:27 PM
I don't need a response either, Tupp. I just wanted to send you some care and encouragement. You take all the time you need to sort this out. After all these years, I don't think any of us are going anywhere. 

Hey, if you like "old bat".... maybe we can come up with some other names for "she who must not spoken of by name"! Call me childish - but even something as tiny as this - can help you see how much power you really have over her attempts to un-nerve you.

More HUGS! More hugs for Tupps & Little Tupps!

Lol, I think if we start coming up with names for our errant parents Dr G might have to close the board down!  I'm okay, Skep, thank you.  I felt that frustration earlier today of the effort she puts in to harm and destroy.  If she'd made that much effort to be a loving parent life might have been very different :)  But I am trying very hard not to let her into my head space.  The stuff went in the recycling and I cleared out my cupboard that I tend to throw packaging and bits of bubble wrap into to reuse and put a load of that on top.  The bins go on Tuesday so she'll be banished to the recycling centre.  I've told my sister if I ever start getting like my mum she's to shoot me.  Which is probably a bit over the top but I have told numerous people that if I start to get like her I want them to tell me straight away and not let it grow.  I can't think of anything worse.

Anyway.  All is good.  Thank you for the support and encouragement (that goes to everyone!).  It is much appreciated :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on September 16, 2017, 07:55:38 PM
Tupp:

Sometimes we have to get to our lowest point to discover what comes next. 

If we remain comfortable, there's no BIG impetus for movement, kwim?

And that's not a good thing, IME.  It's just a thing humans move through, IME.

It's lovely to read about your projects.  Creating sacred space is always uplifting for me.  I shifted 3 plants around on the front porch, and wondered why it took me so long to do that.  SO OBVIOUS they needed to go where they were, but I couldn't see it before this morning. 

What color are you painting your son's room?  I wish I could cut in while you roll; )

((((Tupp))))

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 17, 2017, 01:59:31 AM
Tupp:

Sometimes we have to get to our lowest point to discover what comes next. 

If we remain comfortable, there's no BIG impetus for movement, kwim?

And that's not a good thing, IME.  It's just a thing humans move through, IME.

It's lovely to read about your projects.  Creating sacred space is always uplifting for me.  I shifted 3 plants around on the front porch, and wondered why it took me so long to do that.  SO OBVIOUS they needed to go where they were, but I couldn't see it before this morning. 

What color are you painting your son's room?  I wish I could cut in while you roll; )

((((Tupp))))

Lighter

Lighter, I know what you mean, I just feel like I've got to my lowest point so many times now and it's during those terribly low times that I ache for those close intimate relationships where someone else will just take care of you, just for a while, until you're back on your feet again.  I know that has happened; I can see now the support from you guys, from the friend who popped over, another friend is coming round today.  I know there are people I can ring or who would come over if I asked them to but when I'm in that dark place the paralyses is so absolute that reaching out seems impossible.  I rely on someone happening to get in touch.  Maybe that will change in time.

Yes it's funny the effect that moving something can have?  I've just rearranged my pot plants by the front door; they were leading up the steps but I've put them back nearer the shed and made myself a little area; I'm going to buy a small bench to put in there and then I've got somewhere a bit hidden away.  I realised I haven't been sitting outside much because sitting on the step felt too exposed and the back garden's got so overgrown that I've lost my little hidden seat out there for the time being.  So this is a nice little spot to sit and enjoy a bit of peace.

I'm painting the whole flat a pale yellow.  It seemed the best colour to go with every other colour so I decided to go for pale walls and then I can go mad with easy to change things like throws and cushions.  I'm doing a Lego theme for him as that's his absolute favourite thing so he has new Lego bedding and I found a shop that sells Lego flooring which looks amazing and isn't too expensive.  My sister gave me a big pair of curtains years ago that are plain white cotton and in our last house I folded them double to fit the windows and then we glued cut outs from his old clothes onto them so that he had pictures of his favourite cartoon characters (Sponge Bob and Ben 10, those sort of things).  Someone told me you can buy special transfer paper that you can print photos on and then iron the print onto fabric.  So we're going to take pictures of his Lego creations and replace the cartoon characters with his Lego builds on the curtains.  I've ordered him a big squishy bean bag and I'm going to use some other old clothes of his to make cushions so he's got a nice comfy reading area.  Last item is a desk so he can have his laptop in his room.  I've always kept it in the sitting room so I could make sure he's not online accessing anything he shouldn't be but he's older now and understands more so I think it will be a nice touch for him to have complete privacy.  A new mirror so he can admire himself when he's getting ready to go out.  I asked him last night if he'd like a double bed now that he's older but he still loves his cabin bed so we're keeping that.  I'm looking forward to him having his own space that he can enjoy while I enjoy mine.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on September 17, 2017, 08:55:32 AM
The repetition of various low points has a purpose, I think, Tupps. Especially those where you're longing for someone to just scoop you up and take care of you, till you get your balance back. Each time, I think I see another tiny piece of what it's all about... and then later, like with my "old bat"... I know the "dance" so well, that what happens is I start to see that it's not affecting nearly as much.

In my case, I've been learning "not to care so much" about what "could've been", "should've been". I'm starting to (still a work in progress) accept that "it wasn't"... and that's that. It's surely not the way I've tried to mother and parent my girls (and my brother... and anyone else who stood still around me for 5 seconds!!). I just WAS more maternally capable than my mom is. So, for me, a good bit of healing that place that wails in abject need (still; not as frequently)... happened through my ability to manifest the maternal. I don't practice mothering my SELF much - I went the other direction, of being "tough enough to take a licking and keep on ticking" - but every so often, more lately, I am finding ways to do that. And it's NICE to have that relationship with myself. I do remember to thank myself, too.

When I'm very very tired, or stressed, or trying to solve a difficult problem... all the practice in the world doesn't seem to matter. I still revert to the old coping or lashing out methods. It's probably 'coz it's hard to be present when under mental/internal stress, external stress and exhausted. You know - 'coz we're human. We NEED downtime. Days when we become vegetables and just cocoon, doing the minimum to survive.

Tell ya what - it just now occurred to me, while babbling - I've noticed recently that I seem to not experience nearly as guilt as I used to. Maybe coz of getting my boundaries more organized? Not trying to protect others from myself, as much? I dunno exactly what shifted - but not having that guilt hanging over my head all the time - has made a world of difference in my normal day to day ability to cope and get through problem-solving, doing some new things, etc. Maybe that's a big clue that will help too. Dunno.

You sound a lot better. A little tired, but that's to be expected - you dove into the intensity for a bit there.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on September 17, 2017, 11:37:42 PM
Tupp:

I love buttercream yellow.  My first little house had a buttercream living room, and the nursery was yellow... more of a whipped egg yolk yellow.  Good energy in that, uh huh.

As far as the low spots, maybe the same lessons present themselves until we finally get whatever it is they're trying to teach?  That's how it feels today, anyway.  I try very hard not to rush back into same old same old once I'm feeling better.  I'm tired of getting part of the lesson, then having to go round and round again, but I get that everything in it's time and all.

So, here's another,  final thought on this for tonight.

Maybe... just maybe.... the crisis isn't a crisis at all.  What if it's us in a place where we have to face that we can't go on the way we have been.  That what we've been doing isn't working.  Not knowing any other way is perceived as crisis. 

Maybe we had to fool our children into believing everything would be OK, and maybe we got hypnotized into believing it too, not realizing we'd bought into it.  Maybe we built walls we didn't realize we were building or defenses we NEEEDED, but now don't?

Now  there's room to breath... now we don't have to worry about surviving, we notice things we weren't aware of before.  For me, it feels like I was living inside a cannon.  I'd become deaf and blind to things that didn't concern survival.  They were superfluous, nad annoying....maybe they would have reminded me I had a life once if I paid them any mind.  Maybe that would have been crushing, and so I just didn't let myself see.

I didn't really feel that till I needed to pay attention to that... till I could pay attention. Till I wanted to join in, but felt so far away and unable to connect. 

I didn't know I adopted an entirely different mind set that was unsuitable for living a life and embracing joy.  WHile I built those walls, I didn't know they'd still be in place when I didn't need them.  How could I?  And every time I tried to live a normal life,  something smacked me in the chops and taught me not to do it again, or else. I thickened my armor,  nailed it in place bc it made me stronger, more responsive, more effective in the next battle. 

I don't know what that did to my children, but I can tell you it put distance between me and who I used to be.  Who I want to be.  It's difficult to change that sort of thing if you're not aware it's happened, kwim?  It can creep up on us, only glimpsed, haunting us, taking our attention for years before we actually see it. 

Once we're aware, then we're also mourning the lost years, opportunities, hopes and dreams.  It's a lot to process.  It's many deaths, IME.

Those can be very scary days, IME.  Necessary days, esp facing it, teasing out all the painful bits and pieces till there's understanding, and room for something else.  Hopefully something that works. 

I'm not sure, but I'm here with you, (((Tupp.)))  I wish we could have coffee in your private nook together.  I wish we could tidy your garden together.  I'm amazing at pulling weeds: ) 

I don't understand why I can't fold a fitted sheet to save my life, but have intense focus for pulling the smallest weeds, and brushing the tiniest debris off the ground an inch at a time.  What IS that?  Honestly, I just don't care; )  Whatever it is, is.

::nodding::.

Light
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on September 18, 2017, 02:03:54 PM
For me, the List of Lost Dreams is exactly the same length as everyone else's, long or short.*

Most of my decisions, successful and failing, are about what I do with it.

Generally, I try not to read it. A couple of the things on the list are in poisonous ink.

Sometimes I walk around dragging it like a long tail of toilet paper that got stuck in my tights. Embarrassing.

Other times I blow my nose on it, feel contemptuous toward it. What are these unreal things for?

Now and then, I pick it up and in the presence of someone safe, describe a dream and say how it felt when I knew I had to add it onto the list. How hard that was, or is.

When I am more well than not I might notice when something on my list resembles something someone else is describing. Then I try to listen with my heart. The bruises on my heart ache less afterward.

Sometimes I have three drinks when I should have one or two. Then, the list's a napkin.

Now and then I come home and see the list as an enormous shroud that envelops my house. I fight my way through it to come indoors. It's dark in here. Then, I wait for light.

I think its best use is when I focus not on a Lost Dream itself, but on the writing down of it. The writing itself can be beautiful as the dream once was. Even though writing is only real in an unreal way.

Writing is the last dream. It's not lost yet, but when I use it to record a lost dream, I tremble.

Hops

PS--*What that sentence means to me is that pain is pain when one feels it. No question others suffer more greatly, or at times less. What I'm trying to get at is what my ex (who suffered a broken back and daily pain) said to me one day. I was complaining about my backache and stopped myself: "I can't believe I'm saying a word about my back given what you go through." He said vehemently, "Stop saying that. Pain is pain." I took it to mean that if people suppress their need to express their own pain out of guilt (someone always has it worse) -- then we somehow shut down something important. I've thought about it often since.

I think when we express our pain, whatever that pain is, we are expressing something deeply human: the need to not be voiceless, the need to speak our experience or tell our story, the need to matter. In a moment or a movement. Ultimately, learning how to express one's own pain is, in my view, a practice that enables one to recognize and empathize better when one hears another's pain.

"Don't complain" makes sense to me as an admonition if that's all a person ever does or ever has to say. It really means, you have your story out of balance, there is more to you than this. But it should not mean, be quiet. Don't tell me this. If I can't hear it, that means my own pain is too big for me to hear you at the moment. But I believe expressing my own pain will ultimately help me hear yours.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 20, 2017, 12:20:47 PM
Hi all,

I'm just logging in quickly as I'm still a bit all over the place and not feeling settled enough to write loads.  But the truly awful feelings of the last couple of weeks have gone.  I'm still very tired and still feeling fairly unsociable but I am functioning and getting on with things.

We had our appointment with the educational psychologist yesterday - four hours long!  I was absolutely shattered - son coped better than I did!  She was very nice and did a very thorough job but essentially just ended up agreeing with everything I'd already said.  I do get a little bit frustrated at all these people we encounter on good salaries when I'm doing the same at home for free!  But it means she can write a good report.

The consultant still hasn't made the referral we need to establish whether my son has this awful metabolic disorder or not so I have had to threaten to make a formal complaint.  I just haven't got the time or the energy to keep chasing people and he's had nearly three months to sort this out - it's a referral within the same hospital so literally all he has to do is sign the letter.  Stalling, stalling, stalling.  That's stressing me out a lot but there isn't much I can do about it at the moment.

We went to visit one of the possible colleges today and I wasn't very impressed!  We do more at home :)  So I think if the others turn out to be similar than I will just pick the one nearest to us and look on it as a day care centre for him and carry on teaching him myself.

Other than that, I plan more decorating over the weekend and we're going out with a friend for lunch on Saturday.  Have promised my son some new CDS and a couple of books to keep him occupied while we are there so he should enjoy that :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on September 20, 2017, 12:43:13 PM
Totally hear you on the frustration Tupp.
You are so understandably feeling desperate for resolution, action and change it must be unbearable at times to deal with the slooooooooooow wheels of the bureaucracy.

But it's such excellent news that the psychologist gets it, is on task and clear, and that you anticipate her report will be accurate and helpful. That's huge!

When you refer to the consultant "stalling" though, that almost sounds as though you are taking the delay personally, or imagining that your case is something that this consultant is actively trying to delay. That's what stalling would mean.

I wonder if instead, it's just bogged down in a huge in-basket of cases the consultant has to review before signing. It's probably not anything to do with intentionally wanting to cause delay? Hope not.

Hang in, don't start a fight unless you know it'll help....

xo
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 20, 2017, 02:19:39 PM
Totally hear you on the frustration Tupp.
You are so understandably feeling desperate for resolution, action and change it must be unbearable at times to deal with the slooooooooooow wheels of the bureaucracy.

But it's such excellent news that the psychologist gets it, is on task and clear, and that you anticipate her report will be accurate and helpful. That's huge!

When you refer to the consultant "stalling" though, that almost sounds as though you are taking the delay personally, or imagining that your case is something that this consultant is actively trying to delay. That's what stalling would mean.

I wonder if instead, it's just bogged down in a huge in-basket of cases the consultant has to review before signing. It's probably not anything to do with intentionally wanting to cause delay? Hope not.

Hang in, don't start a fight unless you know it'll help....

xo
Hops

No, unfortunately he is stalling and quite deliberately, everything was set up before I even saw him to request the referral; the doc my son needs to see is happy to see him, paperwork's all in place and everything's done (by me, as usual) but consultant needs to sign the letter and when I chased him up (again) I got an email back talking about something else.  It's common here, they do it to fiddle the waiting list figures; rather than putting you on a waiting list for nine months (which means they miss their targets) they delay referring you for six (no target related performance there) so it looks like you only waited three.  The whole system is so crooked it makes me feel ill.  Added to which if my son does have this disorder it's degenerative (and therefore ultimately life limiting) so it's really important that we start the ball rolling as this appointment will be the first of a long diagnostic process (if the metabolic specialist feels that's necessary; they might be able to rule it out from meeting with him but again we won't know until we do it!).  It's taken nine months to get an appointment with the first doc and it's now been another three to get him to sign the letter (which he still hasn't done) so we're already a year in which is really too long.  The whole system's like it, it's a constant fight to get anyone to do anything, it never ends xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on September 20, 2017, 09:08:37 PM
Lord.
How maddening.

Is it alternate-nostril breathing time?
(Joke: One of Hillary Clinton's post-election calming methods....)

I'll breathe with you...hang in.

You are expert at hanging in, despite everything, Tupp.

Hugs,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 21, 2017, 01:02:32 AM
Lord.
How maddening.

Is it alternate-nostril breathing time?
(Joke: One of Hillary Clinton's post-election calming methods....)

I'll breathe with you...hang in.

You are expert at hanging in, despite everything, Tupp.

Hugs,
Hops

Lol, definitely an alternate nostril breathing situation, it drives everyone up the wall, every one I know says the same thing, the endless battle to get what you need is exhausting (and designed to be so because they're privatising it all so it's being purposely run into the ground and focusing on the things they can make a good profit from.  Drugs are profitable, things like speech therapy or counselling aren't because it's one to one provision so you can't mass produce or mass market it.  It makes my blood boil).

I have looked into going private but there's no way we can afford the entire thing should that be necessary - so if the first appointment leads to further testing (and one of those things would be a lumbar puncture which they'd have to do under anaesthetic as he won't keep still) we'd still have to go back into the system to battle our way through the rest of it.  There are many areas of campaigning I want to get into, if I ever get the time!  Lol xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on September 22, 2017, 09:22:20 AM
Hi Tupp:

It seeeeeems evil that people, in positions of power, undermine and sabotage you, doesn't it? 

I mean... you're working SO hard.  Your life is brutal at times, with all you juggle, chase down, and advocate for, along with caring for your son., and homeschooling. 

You plan meals, shop for them, prepare them, try to enjoy them as a family, then clean up after, without help.  Ever.  You tend the garden, the house, the van, the laundry, the social calendar, and it's all you. 

And these people, if they could glimpse but one day of your life, SHOULD feel enough compassion towards you and your son to simply do their job, not well, but DO it, right?

They should.

And, for you, who's been fighting your FOO, and health services people, and the courts.... these cogs don't know about that part of your struggle.  To them, you're just one of the masses, IMO. 

 It's egregiously harmful TO YOU, not that these people SEE what they do anymore.  It's likely many began their careers with hope and fine ideals that died somewhere on their journey, IMO.  They're likely blind to all suffering, bc they'd break down if they let it all in, considering the situation, IME. 


Remember your achievements.  Remember you've come out the other side of much worse, and you're working towards better things at this juncture.  Not just survival.  I think it's important to remind ourselves that this is new struggle.  Different struggle.  Keep your head where your feet are.   

You're one of the strongest, most devoted, tenacious individuals I've ever had the grace to connect with.  You truly are. 

I hope you have a nice visit.  Keep us updated on the decorating front, and make that complaint if that's what needs to be done.

Lighter

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 23, 2017, 12:10:12 PM
Thanks, Lighter, that's very kind of you to say xx

I am trying, but I feel dead inside.  I'm tired of having to deal with people that I don't want to deal with (because I find them unprofessional and bad at their jobs) but I have no choice.  It's the lack of choice that gets to me - no choices regarding health care professionals, no choice regarding future placements for my son (the local authority decides where he goes, not me), no choice over where we live (we can only afford the cheapest which makes whole parts of the UK impossible to access).

I should be feeling happy.  My lovely friend met us for lunch.  She's such a good friend and is pretty much the most constant person I've had in my life since my son was born.  We got there early and I took my son shopping; he bought some new books and new CDs.  I found myself feeling revolted at the amount of stuff there is for sale and the number of people who are out buying stuff.  I never used to feel like that.  I watched people in beautiful clothes with immaculate hair and make up walk past a homeless guy and not even look at him and I felt so sad.  We had our nice food but I found myself feeling snappy when she suggested things for my son to do that aren't appropriate for his ability level - I still feel that so many people don't understand the depth of his difficulties.  We went around the shops afterwards and I found the noise and the crowds overwhelming and again found myself feeling impatient at my friend taking ages to decide what she wanted.  I really don't want to feel like that, she's a good friend and it doesn't kill me to wait ten minutes for her to choose her stuff.  I really don't feel like myself any more.  I don't know who this person living inside me is anymore.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on September 23, 2017, 02:58:17 PM
This must be what the last few miles of a marathon feel like, (((((Tupp)))).

You can imagine the finish line. But you're not yet there.

I'm so sorry about the emotional cloud and can sense how everything around you, everyone you deal with, every decision you make and all those you cannot make...feel so personal right now.

I hope good moments will feed your spirit enough for you to summon the will for each next step. You've had a huge sense of purpose for so very long. And the last push is often the hardest.

I do believe you'll find happiness and meaning in various things in the future, just as you've been able to so many times before. It may be your garden, a small excursion, or just the peace of having more time to be yourself. There are so many creative things you'll be more able to do...none of them have to involve bureaucrats, class or politics.

Hang in there, dear. You're not alone in your feelings or even your situation. FWIW, I think it's good to avoid voices that amplify fear and amplify all of the negatives. You're already skilled at understanding and identifying the downsides, so I hope you'll open to folks who can encourage your inner spirit, which is so gracious, expansive and creative....and hold on as best you can to positives, meanings, and the choices you DO have. Small or large.

(Meanwhile, of course, no beating yourself up for the times when you just CAN'T. Sometimes we just have to hold on to hope as an abstraction without specifics. You'll renew in time. In spite of all this, you have a deep energy for life. And I know life still has good things to offer you.)

xxoo
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 23, 2017, 03:13:48 PM
Thanks, Hops.  I don't know what it is, I just can't seem to shake it.  Usually I can knock it on the head fairly quickly, or I find that some other 'thing' is underneath the numbness and once I've got rid of that I'm okay again.  It just feels so deep down, even though good things are happening.  It's very weird.  Keep on keeping on.  I'm sorting out the paperwork on my desk.  Lol.  Some jobs are best done when one is numb ;)  Thank you for your kind words it is much appreciated xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 25, 2017, 06:17:21 AM
Just walked back from the shop to find my stepdad's truck parked at the end of my road; he is cutting someone's hedge.  I'm so tired of constantly having to deal with other people's shit.  To look at it logically - he's in his seventies now and they are very comfortable so he doesn't need to work.  Given their claims over the last two decades that I am mentally unstable, I've abused my son badly enough to leave him permanently disabled and that I've fabricated a string of abuse allegations against my step-father, who in their right mind would take a job that they know is at the end of my road, given that my mother has written twice now and been ignored twice.  This is their behaviour, they will ramp it up and ramp it up.  This is what's happened every time before.  They know there's nothing I can do.  Nothing in the notes my mum has sent is abusive or threatening.  There is nothing illegal or immoral about him taking a job near where I live.  Sad, pathetic, miserable people.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on September 25, 2017, 08:50:26 AM
Ugh, so sorry the shadow of the creep appeared.

The pitiful creep who is not worth your time.

He, she, they cannot harm you any more.

If they try to "ramp it up" I truly believe they will just fall off the ramp and injure themselves.

You are and have long since become stronger than they are. You have already won this. It's over.
Their pitiable obsession is how they're choosing to spend their time on this gorgeous earth.

(I feel similarly about my brother. I would feel sick to spot him on my street but would probably just ignore him...and lock my door.) Yuck. Hope the pig is soon gone, he can't trim shrubs forever.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 27, 2017, 09:27:32 AM
Thank you, Hops.  I do appreciate your kind words and you taking the trouble to reply.  I am trying so hard but at the minute I feel like they do still harm me - I had such a bad panic attack this morning that I am now in bed feeling like I've been hit by a truck.  If I could have magically moved house this morning and just vanished where no-one can find me then I would have done.  I think I need a tardis or some such similar contraption :)

I think something I need to try and work on is not comparing myself to other people.  I've always assumed I don't really do this, as I'm not an envious sort of person and I don't covet other people's homes, possessions, incomes and so on.  But what I've realised I do instead is compare myself to other people who aren't coping with the kind of stuff I have to cope with and I see myself negatively to them, if that makes sense?  So when someone tells me they're planning a holiday or going out for the evening I feel sad and frustrated that I'm not doing that and I see that as some sort of failing on my part.  Whereas what I should focus on is how much I do for my son, how well I look after myself and how the things we do manage are actually a pretty major achievement given the problems he has and the low income we manage on.  I do need to big myself up a lot more, I just find it so hard!  It's funny how it's easier to be nice to other people than it is to be nice to ourselves.

I do think my hormones play a big part in how I feel as well; I have noticed that a big portion of my mood lifted once I'd had my period.  So I did some reading and came up with lists of foods that are supposed to be good for balancing hormones, increasing estrogen, reducing anxiety and are just generally good for women's health.  I've done up a meal plan for the week based on them - they aren't terribly exciting meals but if I can level myself out a bit I think it will help.  I have tried various things from the doctor which have had problematic side effects so if I can manage things a different way I think it will help.

Anyway - good things from the Universe - we popped into the local youth centre yesterday and discovered they run a group twice a week that my son can access and he's keen to go.  Even better, there is a yoga class on at the same time in the village hall so I can drop my son at his group and then go and spend an hour stretching and bending.  That sounds like bliss to me.  I've also found a nice lady with extensive disability experience who can babysit for me every now and again so that I can organise the odd night out and go out and have a laugh.  A friend is coming to visit tomorrow.  Another friend is around for a chat on the phone later so I can catch up with her after out walk.  The weather has been nice.  A large meteor fell in the night and flattened my mum and step-dad so they will never be seen again.  That last one is just wishful thinking :)  I am trying very hard to focus on the nice things, I just find the bad stuff weighs so much more heavily on me, it's hard to shift.  Anyway.  Off out for a little walk now, and to buy some chocolate to take to the cinema later in the week (chocolate is not on my list of hormone friendly foods but I think a little treat is acceptable :) ) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on September 27, 2017, 10:34:23 AM
You sound much better Tupps. That's good to hear.

Comparing how we personally feel and cope with the terror of old FOO ghosts to how we imagine other people cope... is I think, an extension/internalization of some of the hurtful things in that old FOO. I do it too sometimes. We're not being very fair to ourselves.

I put myself down and try to kick myself for still actively grieving over things - and Monday would've been Mike's and my 17th anniversary. Yeah, it's been 2 years now. And yeah, I worry that perhaps I'm keeping the grief alive past it's "expiration date"... out of an attempt to also hang on to the memories. But there's also the elements of really picking on myself, trying to make myself feel guilty for being the surviving half of the marriage. I still see that sometimes in those moments - but it doesn't get much "soapbox time" anymore. I let it have it's say; acknowledge it's opinion... and then disregard it. Because whomever that voice is talking about - it's not me. Maybe it's a projection out of n-mom's fantasies... that hurt and confused me so much when I was a kid, I internalized the voice into my own thought processes; I don't know.

Given the circumstances, I think you're doing pretty well Tupps. Of course actually seeing these people and knowing they've located you again is going to affect you! That has to be one of the worst feelings in the world, IMO. But you're still up and going about your new life in spite of it - after taking the time to honor your feelings about it.  So, atta girl! You're actually dealing with it - and those people who seem unaffectedly going about their "oh-so-perfect" lives might actually NOT be dealing with their issues. They're just running away from dealing with it, sometimes.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on September 27, 2017, 11:22:35 AM
You sound much better Tupps. That's good to hear.

Comparing how we personally feel and cope with the terror of old FOO ghosts to how we imagine other people cope... is I think, an extension/internalization of some of the hurtful things in that old FOO. I do it too sometimes. We're not being very fair to ourselves.

I put myself down and try to kick myself for still actively grieving over things - and Monday would've been Mike's and my 17th anniversary. Yeah, it's been 2 years now. And yeah, I worry that perhaps I'm keeping the grief alive past it's "expiration date"... out of an attempt to also hang on to the memories. But there's also the elements of really picking on myself, trying to make myself feel guilty for being the surviving half of the marriage. I still see that sometimes in those moments - but it doesn't get much "soapbox time" anymore. I let it have it's say; acknowledge it's opinion... and then disregard it. Because whomever that voice is talking about - it's not me. Maybe it's a projection out of n-mom's fantasies... that hurt and confused me so much when I was a kid, I internalized the voice into my own thought processes; I don't know.

Given the circumstances, I think you're doing pretty well Tupps. Of course actually seeing these people and knowing they've located you again is going to affect you! That has to be one of the worst feelings in the world, IMO. But you're still up and going about your new life in spite of it - after taking the time to honor your feelings about it.  So, atta girl! You're actually dealing with it - and those people who seem unaffectedly going about their "oh-so-perfect" lives might actually NOT be dealing with their issues. They're just running away from dealing with it, sometimes.

Skep, for what it's worth, I don't think two years is any time at all when it comes to grief.  I'm sorry he's not there with you for your anniversary x I think those kinds of anniversaries or special dates are hard to manage.

As for coping and other people coping - I can see I'm too hard on myself and give myself too much of a grilling about things but it's such a deeply ingrained habit, it's another one that's hard to break out of.  I think perhaps it's partly to do with our society focusing so much on material things as well - you see how well people are doing by their cars or their houses or the clothes they wear.  And people are so busy - there aren't many people with the time to chat and share their actual achievements rather than demonstrating them superficially.  So yes, I think I fell into that trap, or maybe I just look for ways to show myself that I'm not good enough and everyone else does better?  So yes, I'm really trying to focus on just doing what I do and not thinking so much about everyone else.  I've cooked some decent food up and we've been out for a walk.  That might be just about it for today but that's not bad going so I'm happy :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on September 27, 2017, 08:54:19 PM
Hi Tupp:

Lets just pretend M and SF were flattened by a meteorite, never to be seen from again.

It stops me cold in my tracks from what I'd normally do.... worry, fret, feel how unfair something is, and go on and on in my head searching for solutions, kwim?

And IF that meteorite really fell on them.... if they were never to be seen again.... THAT feeling is what I'd hope for, no matter what they're up to. 

I'm going with meteorite.
::nodding::

I hope you're having lovely weather.... we had the nicest day today.  Breezy, and almost cool.  I'm so ready for fall. 

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on September 28, 2017, 10:09:14 AM
(((Tupp)))--

Last week, emotionally, you broke your leg. It's going to heal completely. You'll be dancing on it again. But it hurt that much and scared you that much. And now it's the slow knitting and walking gingerly.

You're going to be okay, truly. As deep as the pain and shock injury was, it is going to heal completely. That's already begun. The life force is extraordinary. Much more powerful than we are. Sometimes it feels horrible as it courses through us. Especially when it's working on healing. But it's life and it's coming back. Trust it.

And (((((((PR)))))), I echo there's no correct timetable for grieving. Nor even measurement.

love,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on October 01, 2017, 10:57:48 PM
Hi Tupp:

I hope you're resting, and taking care of yourself. 

You're very important ((((Tupp.)))) 

Light
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on October 03, 2017, 05:26:31 PM
Tupp? Did I hit a wrong note?

Or are you just enduring?

love,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on October 04, 2017, 08:37:51 AM
Thank you all, you are all so lovely, I am kind of just enduring at the moment, taking stock, replenishing batteries, working through what I need to keep, what I can dump, what I must get rid of in order to move forward and how to do it.  Having a lot of quiet time which I am enjoying.  Keeping internet time to a minimum and kind of not feeling I have much to write on here at the mo as brain seems to have just gone on strike :)  But will post properly when normal service is resumed xx xx xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on October 08, 2017, 03:25:17 AM
Well hello everybody :)

Firstly, thank you all so, so much for sticking with me through what has been a frighteningly awful time just recently.  I'm still not entirely sure what happened, other than it feels like a whole load of 'stuff' screamed "sort me!" all at the same time and I really just crumpled completely and couldn't cope any more.  In all honesty the last time things got that bad I ended up in a psychiatric hospital for a few days so I'm very glad that I weathered the storm without getting anyone else (other than your good selves) involved.

I have been hiding out in my cave and I've been doing a lot of thinking, a lot of soul searching and a lot of painful releasing - of dreams, of expectations, of unrealistic standards, of notions of what is right and wrong.  It's been unpleasant a lot of the time and I've gone through phases of feeling very angry, very sad, very resentful and generally lots of unpleasant emotions that I prefer to pretend don't affect me.  But they've been very strong just recently so I've really had to dig deep and set them free.

So - an update.

The consultant has finally agreed to make one of the referrals we need.  He has been doing a very bad job, in my opinion, and I am sick to the back teeth of having to keep pushing and pushing and pushing people simply to do the jobs they're paid to do but, we don't have another option so I just have to grit my teeth and get on with it.  I'm limiting checking my emails to once a week as I do find dealing with people and situations like this very triggering, so I am limiting the number of times I trigger myself!  Trying to balance my own health against my son's is a difficult one as my health is much better when I don't have contact with the public sector, yet my son must have contact with them.  It's a funny line to have to walk and not one that I'm enjoying but, unless my financial ship comes in then I don't have another option at the moment and I shall have to just suck it up.

We had our assessment with social services and the social worker wrote a very positive assessment about myself and my son, which was nice to read.  I think she is the first person who has conceded that my son has needs that the system is unable to meet, rather than denying he has a problem which is what's usually happened in the past.  So that was a good step and a positive one.  The downside of the positive report is that they won't help us, so I am still stuck in this situation that is slowly killing me and I still can't see an easy way out of it.  I also discovered on reading the assessment that the children's hospital we went to two years ago referred us to social services claiming that my son wasn't receiving an education.  This was after I provided them with enormous amounts of paperwork that showed the education I was giving him and worked with them through nine hours of assessments, during which they kept telling me I was doing a marvelous job and they were very impressed by me.  There are also clear procedures that parents should be told a referral is being made in a child protection situation and again this didn't happen.  So once again it has shown me that public sector services are rotten to the core and we are constantly subjected to this kind of abuse over and over again.  I'm not happy about it but, once again, there's nothing I can do, other than be appreciative of the fact that social services investigated quickly and discreetly and found there was no case to answer, yet again.

There's been no further contact from Bat Face or any park ups by Dopey Bollocks.  My sister called me yesterday morning to warn me that my mum was spending the morning in the village I live in and that she'd purposely called my sister to tell her.  I felt a moment of anger but then found myself thinking I want to focus my time and my life on getting to a point where I can spend my time in my 70s enjoying myself and helping other people out, rather than looking for ways to niggle people who I've abused so badly they want nothing more to do with me.  She's an absolute waste of space and how someone like her gets such a long and healthy life when you read so many stories about lovely people dying from cancer or troubled youngsters killing themselves is beyond me, but there we are.

Phew!  All of this has led me to my current thinking (or realisation, depending on which way you look at it) that I have a deeply embedded sense of not being good enough.  Ever, at anything, under any circumstances.  Although I 'knew' this before it's only been these last few weeks that I feel I'm really seeing it.  My fear of relationships, my quiet, internal criticism of people, my impossibly high standards that no-one else ever quite reaches (myself included), my never finished jobs and projects, my endless worry about my son, what other people think, how I should live my life, and my life long picture in my mind of how I 'ought' to be, which I always thought was ambition and aspiration but I know think is just my way of never quite living up to my own lofty ideals.  Tup is never good enough, whatever happens.

My plan now is to spend the next couple of months trying to finish off jobs and not start any new ones.  I am also trying very hard to focus on what I have, here and now, and what I can do today to try and make it a good day - not keep thinking about how wonderful life will be next time we move/go abroad/if only I could go to that festival or get into that kind of music of if I could sing or write that book and so on and so on.  Not to say I don't still have things I'd love to do but I'm trying to find ways of doing things I love within the life I currently have, instead of constantly wishing it was something else.

What I'd very much like to do is take a year out when my son starts college and spend my time when he's not here doing things that I love, for no reason other than I love them.  I'd really like to get back in touch with who I am, now, as a middle aged, battle weary woman who has spend a lot of time fighting demons and really not much time enjoying herself and feeling happy.  I'd like to focus on gaining a life that is more balanced and has more me time that I can spend in ways I truly choose to, within reason.

With that in mind, there are baby steps afoot (no pun intended :) ).  My son has just started at a new youth group that is walking distance from our home, two evenings a week.  On one of those evenings there is a yoga class at the community centre which is just up the road, so I can walk him to club, take myself off to yoga and then go back to pick him up again.  This is good.

We have both lost weight with all the extra walking due to not having a vehicle on the road so I am going to sell the van and go carless for a year.  I've not missed having it; in fact I've preferred it.  It's massively cut down on what we do and where we go which I've found much easier.  The walking is part of the day now rather than having to make time for it, which is easier.  We've a bit of extra money as we're not spending on petrol, we have a free bus pass and the train is reasonably priced.  I'll put the money from the sale of the van in a savings account and if we decide to get another vehicle I can use if for that but if not then a holiday would be good :)

I've finished painting the walls and ceiling in my son's room.  Just the woodwork to do now, then the curtain poles up and the flooring down.  Only another weekend's work, I think and he will be safely ensconced in his new room.  A job that will be finished :)

I think that's all for now.  Thank you again for sticking with me and hanging on in there, I can't tell you how much I appreciate everybody here.  Thank you :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on October 09, 2017, 11:39:07 PM
(((((Tupp)))) I hear you.  Finishing projects sounds so practical.  And uplifting. 

I haven't started indoor projects I wanted to finish before company arrives.  All my energy is going to the yard, and kids/family.  Reading about your plan made my stomach flip with urgency to start and finish, but we can only do what we can do.

BTW I think we're marvelously capable.

:: Nodding::.
Take advantage of the energy you have and keep us updated, won't you.
Light
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on October 10, 2017, 07:52:06 AM
Quote
my current thinking (or realisation, depending on which way you look at it) that I have a deeply embedded sense of not being good enough.  Ever, at anything, under any circumstances.  Although I 'knew' this before it's only been these last few weeks that I feel I'm really seeing it.

(((((((((((((Tupp)))))))))))))

This, to me, is the massive silver lining. What I know of you is that despite pain or anger or ordeals, what leads you most is your intelligence. What I know of you is that once you realize a truth, or once a crucial insight swims up through the stress and you take it in...you respect its power. I think you value reality and the strength of self-discovery. You're always noticing, listening to and challenging your own inner narrative.

That changes your relationship to yourself, and ultimately to other people, and to life and what happens. That's what people who wind up at peace with themselves do. That is what makes lasting happiness ultimately possible, imo. So I feel heartened every time I read one of these thoughtful, honest and insightful pieces of self-discovery from you.

It may be hard to feel at the moment, as it was so hard-won, but BRAVO.

love and encouragement,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on October 14, 2017, 04:11:48 AM
(((((Tupp)))) I hear you.  Finishing projects sounds so practical.  And uplifting. 

I haven't started indoor projects I wanted to finish before company arrives.  All my energy is going to the yard, and kids/family.  Reading about your plan made my stomach flip with urgency to start and finish, but we can only do what we can do.

BTW I think we're marvelously capable.

:: Nodding::.
Take advantage of the energy you have and keep us updated, won't you.
Light

I think the number of projects we have always outweighs the time and energy available, Lighter!  Yep, we can only do what we can do is what I'm trying to adopt as my new mantra.  I read something interesting online the other day, I forget the exact wording now but it was basically talking about life being something that we measure in terms of things we go out and achieve, rather than difficult experiences that we survive.  I'm trying to adopt a more forgiving approach to myself and to remind myself of just how hard I've worked for so many years and how much I've had to cope with - not through choice but because it's happenend and I've had to get on with it.  So the last three days I've been resting a lot, just because I felt like it and, instead of feeling guilty because of it, I tried to focus on being lucky enough to be able to do it at the moment - no endlessly pressing, urgent jobs that need doing, son is happy doing his own thing indoors, I've been ordering the food shopping online so we're well stocked up, I can relax and potter about and not worry about it.  Trying to focus on the good, rather than the should :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on October 14, 2017, 08:22:32 AM
Quote
my current thinking (or realisation, depending on which way you look at it) that I have a deeply embedded sense of not being good enough.  Ever, at anything, under any circumstances.  Although I 'knew' this before it's only been these last few weeks that I feel I'm really seeing it.

(((((((((((((Tupp)))))))))))))

This, to me, is the massive silver lining. What I know of you is that despite pain or anger or ordeals, what leads you most is your intelligence. What I know of you is that once you realize a truth, or once a crucial insight swims up through the stress and you take it in...you respect its power. I think you value reality and the strength of self-discovery. You're always noticing, listening to and challenging your own inner narrative.

That changes your relationship to yourself, and ultimately to other people, and to life and what happens. That's what people who wind up at peace with themselves do. That is what makes lasting happiness ultimately possible, imo. So I feel heartened every time I read one of these thoughtful, honest and insightful pieces of self-discovery from you.

It may be hard to feel at the moment, as it was so hard-won, but BRAVO.

love and encouragement,
Hops

Thank you, Hops, I always appreciate your kind words :)

I think I just like to try and work out the cause so that I can fix it, if possible.  These last few weeks have been so awful that I really didn't ever want to go through it again, if I can avoid it.  It's funny as well but, I've often found that once I 'see' something, it loses a lot of its power almost immediately. I already feel better about myself and it's weird but I realised that I don't just compare myself to other people, I also compare myself to this idealised notion of have of what I should be like, and of course, I never measure up.  So I am just trying to be Tup and not think too much about whether or not that's okay.  I went to my new yoga class this week and it was nice.  I felt anxious and found my mind wandering to how well other people were doing but I kept pulling it back to focus on what I was feeling (everything was very tight so I ached a lot the next day!).  But it was nice, nice people, a very gently, soothing instructor who focuses on the health and spiritual side of yoga rather than the currently trendy (here anyway) high intensity yoga classes that to me are quite superficial and all about people showing off how bendy they are.  I'm trying to focus on keeping my world a bit smaller and not spreading myself too thinly.  Still feel quite tired but definitely getting there :)  Thank you xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on October 14, 2017, 10:21:22 AM
That sounds like a really good, perpetual motion positive feedback loop you have going there Tupps!

I think I like that idea about life being more about what you achieve than, what you've survived. (They're maybe flip sides of the same coin?)

As for just allowing yourself to be you, sans guilt about it not being good enough... that there might just be a key to a whole room of new "stuff" about life, that up till now... I know I haven't had the luxury of exploring. And, speaking from recent experience... I think it also helps with processing those old, too-well-known, scary and dreary rooms that a person can spend too much time in... even though the time spent is useful, too.

Good job, kiddo!
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sea storm on October 14, 2017, 01:39:37 PM
Coming back to the title of your post  : Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me?
Just staying with that idea of letting go and passing it over and on to others who have the skill, education and caring to do the job is such a big change emotionally and intellectually and parentally. So when you say help I wonder what the best thing to do when a friend is attempting a huge transition that is good even if it feels terrifying.  I hope you can let me listen to you so that you can keep this going in your heart and in reality. Listening is good and listening without judgement is very good.

The incident with your cocka doodle doooo scandal monger relative at the bottom of the drive was a clear sign to tell you that you aren't up to take the hook of that guy anymore.  He is someone who likes to psychologically flay innocent people. So sorry you just happened to be on the path and anyone who crosses his path is fair game.

As your post progressed it seemed like you were managing to accomplish your goal of finding emotional freedom from needing to have so much control. How did you do it?   It took a lot of courage.

Lots of love
Sea
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on October 16, 2017, 03:00:04 PM
That sounds like a really good, perpetual motion positive feedback loop you have going there Tupps!

I think I like that idea about life being more about what you achieve than, what you've survived. (They're maybe flip sides of the same coin?)

As for just allowing yourself to be you, sans guilt about it not being good enough... that there might just be a key to a whole room of new "stuff" about life, that up till now... I know I haven't had the luxury of exploring. And, speaking from recent experience... I think it also helps with processing those old, too-well-known, scary and dreary rooms that a person can spend too much time in... even though the time spent is useful, too.

Good job, kiddo!

Aw thanks, Skep!  I do feel like I'm getting somewhere now, the last few weeks were so intense it really scared me and I was just sooooo tired of dealing with all this crap over and over again.  But it does feel like another big chunk shifted somehow.  Yes, I think achieved/survived are different sides of the same coin, I think perhaps we tend to focus on things that are easy to see and whether or not we have a good job/good income/good relationship/house/car etc etc.  We can't see emotional or spiritual growth or depth of personality, can we?  Even things like kindness or loyalty aren't obvious unless you happen to witness a kind gesture or get to know someone.  And I tend to judge myself harshly; as soon as I'm talking to someone who appears to have more than me I feel inferior.  My own issue, not theirs, so I am trying to focus on my personal qualities and be proud of the fact that I can stretch a low income out a long way, instead of feeling ashamed that I'm on a low income, if that make sense.

Yes, allowing us to be ourselves - something to work towards I think?  Although not easy either, lol :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on October 16, 2017, 03:09:44 PM
Coming back to the title of your post  : Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me?
Just staying with that idea of letting go and passing it over and on to others who have the skill, education and caring to do the job is such a big change emotionally and intellectually and parentally. So when you say help I wonder what the best thing to do when a friend is attempting a huge transition that is good even if it feels terrifying.  I hope you can let me listen to you so that you can keep this going in your heart and in reality. Listening is good and listening without judgement is very good.

The incident with your cocka doodle doooo scandal monger relative at the bottom of the drive was a clear sign to tell you that you aren't up to take the hook of that guy anymore.  He is someone who likes to psychologically flay innocent people. So sorry you just happened to be on the path and anyone who crosses his path is fair game.

As your post progressed it seemed like you were managing to accomplish your goal of finding emotional freedom from needing to have so much control. How did you do it?   It took a lot of courage.

Lots of love
Sea

Thank you, Sea.  Having all these wise and kind voices on here is what keeps me going, there's such a wealth of knowledge and wisdom and it's all so freely shared, and so kindly as well.  It really is a very special place :)

Yes my step-dad is a dick and it does/has bothered me that he did so many awful things and nothing ever happened to him, and that he's still so confident he's untouchable that he can park himself at the end of my road but I keep telling myself if that's how pathetic he is that he gets pleasure out of that then my job is to keep working on my life so that I never get pleasure from hurting other people - especially children.  God I hope I never get like that.

I don't think I've relinquished control just yet.  I am still catching myself in my old habits but I'm trying really hard to make my thinking about myself different, because I think it's my control of myself that's really at the bottom of it all.  I have noticed that there is a constant flow of sub text in the back of my mind, whatever I'm doing, whatever I'm thinking.  So if I do yoga, there is a constant thread that I'm not as bendy as the yoga teacher, that my fat belly gets in the way, that I should be able to do more, and along side that is a sneering voice saying "oh yoga.  Alright for some, to be able to spend time poncing about on a mat, most of us don't have time for that sort of thing".  It's quiet and it's subtle but it is there in the background all the time.  My mum criticises everything, either because you don't do something well enough or if you are really untouchable at something she mocks the fact that you're able to do it; there's a sneering condescension that you somehow have an easier life than her and that's why you can do that and she can't.  And I just hadn't noticed how that still runs through me at some level so I'm really trying hard to just be what I am, who I am, enjoy what I do and not have her stupid flapping mouth going at me all the time!  Lol, it's so funny, I've not spoken to her for over ten years but it's still like she's just sat next to me all the time.  So I think it is really time for Tup to be Tup and not care about all those little nit picking things and enjoy life?  Even the thought of having an enjoyable life feels like something I don't deserve, so I really need to work on that because we all deserve to be happy, at least some of the time, I think :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on October 16, 2017, 04:02:12 PM
I SNEER at the sneerers!

Let's now banish sneering, sneers deserved or un-, sneer seekers, sneer promoters, subliminal sneering, competitive sneerers, and assorted sneerfests from our lives.

Sneer is SUCH a powerful word and really ... such a weak activity. Even the guilty officer in A Few Good Men, despite his fabulous sneer-speech, wound up getting his due anyway.

Sneering is satisfying the way a massive sugar-drenched cupcake is. A good sneer delivers a powerful, punchy short-term high, and afterward, you just feel sick. (Btdt).

I will, however, defend good satire forever...and have a high tolerance for clever, subtle snark.

SO impressed with your insight, Tupp.

love,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on October 17, 2017, 01:06:29 AM
I SNEER at the sneerers!

Let's now banish sneering, sneers deserved or un-, sneer seekers, sneer promoters, subliminal sneering, competitive sneerers, and assorted sneerfests from our lives.

Sneer is SUCH a powerful word and really ... such a weak activity. Even the guilty officer in A Few Good Men, despite his fabulous sneer-speech, wound up getting his due anyway.

Sneering is satisfying the way a massive sugar-drenched cupcake is. A good sneer delivers a powerful, punchy short-term high, and afterward, you just feel sick. (Btdt).

I will, however, defend good satire forever...and have a high tolerance for clever, subtle snark.

SO impressed with your insight, Tupp.

love,
Hops

Lol, so many ways to sneer, Hopsie!  It's insidious, isn't it, and one of those things that's often more to do with the tone of voice rather than the words said.  I was talking to someone the other day about the way verbal abuse can be very difficult to highlight and pin point because it can be more about the tone and the intention behind it rather than the actual words, or something obvious like swearing and name calling.  And yes, good satire is clever and funny, sneering is quite the opposite, isn't it.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on October 17, 2017, 01:14:12 AM
I thought I'd write down some of the subtle voices I have recently become aware of just as and when they happen, as I hadn't realised how often it occurs.

This morning - very early, still dark out - I woke up and was aware that my neck was terribly stiff, as were my shoulders.  I do get very tense in the night, I grind my teeth so much I have to wear a mouth guard as they were starting to crack.  I think all the tension seeps out over night and I wake up feeling less relaxed than I did when I went to bed.

Anyway, I was pondering that as I made tea, fed the cat and folded some washing.  I put the cat bowls in the dishwasher and took my tea into the lounge, where there was a dish and a glass from last night.  I put those in the dishwasher, which was now full, and there was the voice - you could have done this last night, put the dishwasher on and it would all have been done this morning.  Tiny thing, very quiet, almost imperceptible voice but there it was, that internal critique of not being perfect.  The thing that really went through my head then was, why would it even matter, whether the dishwasher goes on the night before or the morning after?  And the answer is it doesn't, but that was my entire upbringing - endless comment and dialogue about pointless, inconsequential things while the big topics were ignored.  Endless chatter to fill the void that honest conversation and emotional intelligence ought to fill.  Endless negative chatter, I should say.

A tiny example, but now that I've become aware of it I really want to focus on it and drive it out.  I want to focus on big, important issues, enjoyment, love, laughter, hope, ambition.  Not what time I put the dishwasher on or whether or not it's 'fair' that I've got time to do yoga.  What a silly waste of energy.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on October 17, 2017, 01:22:39 PM
If you find a way to drive that voice out and away for good, do share.  ;)

Best I can do with it, is ignore it or tell it to go take a hike. Which does help... but it's still there.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on October 17, 2017, 02:06:48 PM
If you find a way to drive that voice out and away for good, do share.  ;)

Best I can do with it, is ignore it or tell it to go take a hike. Which does help... but it's still there.

Yes, it's very insistent!  Today I heard it berating me for feeling tired at lunchtime.  Then I realised I'd been up and on the go since 5am so I'd already done an eight hour day before lunch.  So I gave myself the rest of the afternoon off and told myself to relax.  Felt a bit uncomfortable!  But with practise, hopefully? :) x
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on October 19, 2017, 03:50:04 AM
Just scribbling down what I've noticed about my thinking over the last couple of days :)  Just advance warning, there might be a little trigger near the end, sorry x

It's more severe/critical/difficult to manage when I'm with or around other people.  I'm finding at home the inner voice is not so strong and is easier to over ride.  We went out yesterday and what I noticed was:

Chatting to a lady at the train station.  She initiated conversation, she was friendly and open, her son was with her and he was very friendly and sociable as well.  As we chatted my inner voice was saying "she's thinking oh my god, why won't this woman shut up, banging on endlessly, as if I'd be interested in what she's saying".  My logical mind can approach this, she initiated conversation, she carried on the conversation, it was chit chat as we were both sat next to each other waiting for the train.  There's no logical reason for her to be thinking anything at all in that situation, we were just passing time and when the train arrived she said "nice to meet you, we'll probably see you again".  Nothing negative about that.  But of course - mum - she would critique every interaction she had with every person she had it with and no matter how nice that person had been or what they'd been doing, she would complain about them afterwards.  It's so ingrained in me that it's still in there and still comes up every day!  How weird.

We went for acupuncture, lovely lady we've been seeing for years, she checked my pulses and said "you seem a bit tired".  I am always tired, I work very hard, I put in long hours, I don't sleep well,  I go to see her because I find the acupuncture helps me to feel better so there is no earthly logical reason that I should feel guilty about being tired.  But I did!  A little voice inside me registered that as a negative; I should be able to do everything I do and not feel tired.  How silly is that??!

We went for brunch - critical voices - my choice of meal (cooked breakfast - it's not the healthiest option so the voice berates me for that.  If I'd picked the healthiest option the voice would have criticised me for being boring and eating fruit for breakfast).  Paying for lunch - again, berating for having money to spend on meals (it's an occasional treat, the cafe isn't expensive and the people are lovely, very welcoming and always so nice to my son).

The next one is weird.  We got off the train, it was quite crowded and two men who were waiting for a train had to move out of the way to let us past.  The voice was berating me for not being attractive enough or making a good enough effort with my appearance to be attractive to the men?  Now I'd lay money there is some messed up reason to do with that that has to do with being abused.  I'm not sure what it is and I don't know that I'm really up for digging too deeply into that at the moment as it feels quite sinister and is probably not going to be a nice path to go down so I'm just leaving that one where it is for the time being.  Urgh.  On that note I am going to stop writing and go and do something nice and practical that doesn't involve too much thinking!  Sorry to mention it, it kind of popped up and I'm not really sure what to do next with that one.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on October 19, 2017, 10:06:59 AM
My lord, honey.
I can't imagine any women that doesn't sometimes feel a dark flash of completely random shame, completely undeserved and unintended, related to her sex appeal. You can't live in this Western culture without feeling on some level its attacks into your worth.

If you never ever felt that one, you'd be very unusual. I've felt it. That squicky sense of kind of not feeling entitled to exist without male approval or desiring male gaze. We're trained into it, by the whole entire sexist system. It's not personal to us as individuals at all, it's like a toxic fume that just periodically drifts by and we get a whiff and for that moment, we're poisoned.

And that toxic fume doesn't stand a chance against all the oxygen you're breathing. Your growth and your mind and your determined NOTICING what your internalized critic continually piles on you...that's what is slowly and painfully healing you. It's inspiring and it's a huge achievement. I don't know when I've ever read such determined courage in facing truths, accepting inner realities, naming things (and voices) for what they are.

It's unfair that healing is so damn hard. During my longest stretches of struggle, one thing that pops into my mind sometimes is that it feels like recovery from surgery. The pain of physical healing--tissues re-knitting, muscles coming out of "lock", and long ordeals of physical therapy--can be agony. And seem endless.

But the result of it is...healing. It truly is.

What makes you NOT your mother, even though you can sometimes still hear her voice inside you, is that she made friends with her negative, oxygen-free, poisonous attitude toward life and humanity. Her negativity and critical stance on everything hopeful and simply pleasant in others were her only friend. They kept her from ever being intimate with herself, and from ever maturing. She arrested her growth in an unpleasant, mean-girl adolescent stage...and you are so far, far beyond that.

It must be excruciating to have catalogued how persistent that self-sabotaging, undermining thought stream is. But I think it's like the excruciating pain of healing after emotional surgery.

You have been SO brave. Some part of you that was never broken claimed your right to heal yourself, and you actually have done that surgery. You have explored and studied and used your fine mind so persistently. Yet you are still healing. And there still is that nasty toxic fume in our world.

YOU are more persistent than the fading, old, boring, nattering nabob of negativity. You may HEAR it, the way one hears tinnitus, but believe me, that nasty critical voice is not going to be the only sound that matters.

I have such faith in you that it's going to become a background hum that you can most of the time tune out. It may become completely silent one day. But until it does, I believe you will learn to know it for what it is. Irrelevant brain noise that is a distraction from your positive direction. A symptom that's unpleasant but NOT dangerous.

I don't know how articulate this was but I was very moved by the specificity, the courage of your insight. Your blast-the-torpedos determination to hear what you heard and identify the sound. Now, I have renewed certainty that YOU are going to begin to train your brain to let that sound become background noise more easily, because you know it for the irrelevant hiss it is.

Don't know why this comparison works for me, but I do have significant tinnitus, and it feels so similar. The way it rises, and I briefly panic or feel distress at being forced away from peace...and then manage to move into another absorption again. In that sense, distraction is positive, and I can move ahead.

love to you,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on October 20, 2017, 08:33:52 AM
I am also touched by these observations of yours Tupp. They're genuine and pure... "noticing". But that voice is NOT YOU. It's conditioning - environmental "nurture" - although in your case (and mine) that nurturing has a decidedly limiting and negative twist to it.

So, when the voice is really active, it's like walking through a garbage dump. Like Hops said: the toxic fumes seem to waft all around you. Engulfing you.

Here's a little secret: if you can really center yourself in the logical understanding that even if you are overcome by the yuck - it's not YOU... then, you start to see that you can reject the implication of the voice's criticism and not allow yourself to BELIEVE it's accurate or correct or true any more.

As for the criticism about the guys (we'll revisit this more some other time) - I had one of those encounters yesterday. Actually two. Within the space of 1/2 hr in the grocery store. First guy - a mountain of a man - bumped his cart into mine, and mumbled something about "license and registration and insurance please". LOL. He appeared to be a lifelong farmer. And we do-si-do'd around each other in the aisles till I checked out. The second one, came up behind me while I was loading groceries in the jeep (not a good idea without making some noise with me)... to make a comment on some stuff I'd bought.

I've been shopping there for a year, and there was only one or two other encounters like this I've had. My hair's grown out, because I haven't found a salon and haven't had time to fuss over how I look... but the "list" work is slowing down a little and I am pampering myself a bit. So the hair gets pulled back and there are inevitably wispy bits flying right around my face. I usually am so intent on my shopping list, and minimizing my time in stores that I am walking around inside a force field so strong no one can get in.

But something must be shifting these days. I've relied on a couple of "useful big brother" male friends the past couple years... because rational or not, my feeling - my world is - still in a relationship with Mike. There are clear boundaries with "other guys" as a result. If these guys are noticing me... and feeling bold enough to approach me... and even "play" a little, then I must be appearing to them, as more approachable. It's not threatening or intimidating or even a "potential" situation - it's just humans reacting to humans and a bit of the universe trying to tell me something and see if I'm paying attention.

For awhile there, I couldn't quite escape the idea that I needed to be alert to finding another relationship. So, I was always evaluating the guys I came in contact with and how I felt about them; being around them. So, the hold my "conditioning" - or habit - has on me, seems to be lifting. As you become more comfortable and centered in "just Tupp" and shaking off the belief in your conditioning, I'll bet you start noticing the same kinds of responses from the universe.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on October 22, 2017, 03:41:14 AM
My lord, honey.
I can't imagine any women that doesn't sometimes feel a dark flash of completely random shame, completely undeserved and unintended, related to her sex appeal. You can't live in this Western culture without feeling on some level its attacks into your worth.

If you never ever felt that one, you'd be very unusual. I've felt it. That squicky sense of kind of not feeling entitled to exist without male approval or desiring male gaze. We're trained into it, by the whole entire sexist system. It's not personal to us as individuals at all, it's like a toxic fume that just periodically drifts by and we get a whiff and for that moment, we're poisoned.

And that toxic fume doesn't stand a chance against all the oxygen you're breathing. Your growth and your mind and your determined NOTICING what your internalized critic continually piles on you...that's what is slowly and painfully healing you. It's inspiring and it's a huge achievement. I don't know when I've ever read such determined courage in facing truths, accepting inner realities, naming things (and voices) for what they are.

It's unfair that healing is so damn hard. During my longest stretches of struggle, one thing that pops into my mind sometimes is that it feels like recovery from surgery. The pain of physical healing--tissues re-knitting, muscles coming out of "lock", and long ordeals of physical therapy--can be agony. And seem endless.

But the result of it is...healing. It truly is.

What makes you NOT your mother, even though you can sometimes still hear her voice inside you, is that she made friends with her negative, oxygen-free, poisonous attitude toward life and humanity. Her negativity and critical stance on everything hopeful and simply pleasant in others were her only friend. They kept her from ever being intimate with herself, and from ever maturing. She arrested her growth in an unpleasant, mean-girl adolescent stage...and you are so far, far beyond that.

It must be excruciating to have catalogued how persistent that self-sabotaging, undermining thought stream is. But I think it's like the excruciating pain of healing after emotional surgery.

You have been SO brave. Some part of you that was never broken claimed your right to heal yourself, and you actually have done that surgery. You have explored and studied and used your fine mind so persistently. Yet you are still healing. And there still is that nasty toxic fume in our world.

YOU are more persistent than the fading, old, boring, nattering nabob of negativity. You may HEAR it, the way one hears tinnitus, but believe me, that nasty critical voice is not going to be the only sound that matters.

I have such faith in you that it's going to become a background hum that you can most of the time tune out. It may become completely silent one day. But until it does, I believe you will learn to know it for what it is. Irrelevant brain noise that is a distraction from your positive direction. A symptom that's unpleasant but NOT dangerous.

I don't know how articulate this was but I was very moved by the specificity, the courage of your insight. Your blast-the-torpedos determination to hear what you heard and identify the sound. Now, I have renewed certainty that YOU are going to begin to train your brain to let that sound become background noise more easily, because you know it for the irrelevant hiss it is.

Don't know why this comparison works for me, but I do have significant tinnitus, and it feels so similar. The way it rises, and I briefly panic or feel distress at being forced away from peace...and then manage to move into another absorption again. In that sense, distraction is positive, and I can move ahead.

love to you,
Hops

Hops, I have had to read and re-read that several times because there's so much in there it's taken me a while to absorb it all and take it all in.  Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to write it all down, so much knowledge and learned experience, so much encouragement and understanding.  Thank you.  I can't tell you how much it means to me - that goes to everyone, I am so supported here and I am so grateful and thankful for that.

Yes, the underlying, sexist gaze is very strong and very evident, I can see exactly what you're saying there and I suppose as I am in my 'noticing' phase at the moment that I am just noticing things more strongly than before.  I think I possibly opened myself up too much.  I am dealing with a very unpleasant and very toxic doctor at the moment.  Passive aggressive, obtuse, he isn't 'hearing' me and he's harming my son in the process.  I am being (outwardly) calm, assertive, putting requests and corrections in writing, behaving professionally, in fact (which he isn't).  Inwardly my fear of 'what will happen' because I'm standing my ground against this kind of powerful person is paralysing me and I literally found it difficult to move yesterday.  I do find it harder to manage my mind when I'm tired, it seems to revert back to the old patterns much more readily so yesterday was a critical, Tup isn't good enough day.  I do feel like I've got to the point where I recognise that now and the best way to cope is to bed down on the sofa or escape to the cinema for a few hours - something to distract the mind without causing any more triggers or stresses and just wait for it to pass.

I do get your comparison with tinnitus and how it feels when 'something' knocks you off your game for a while.  Something that you didn't create but that is forcing you to take notice and change what you're doing.  I felt that frustration very keenly yesterday.  Feeling better today, though, and I hope your tinnitus leaves you alone for a while, Hopsie!  Thank you again, and lots of love xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on October 22, 2017, 03:49:35 AM
I am also touched by these observations of yours Tupp. They're genuine and pure... "noticing". But that voice is NOT YOU. It's conditioning - environmental "nurture" - although in your case (and mine) that nurturing has a decidedly limiting and negative twist to it.

So, when the voice is really active, it's like walking through a garbage dump. Like Hops said: the toxic fumes seem to waft all around you. Engulfing you.

Here's a little secret: if you can really center yourself in the logical understanding that even if you are overcome by the yuck - it's not YOU... then, you start to see that you can reject the implication of the voice's criticism and not allow yourself to BELIEVE it's accurate or correct or true any more.

As for the criticism about the guys (we'll revisit this more some other time) - I had one of those encounters yesterday. Actually two. Within the space of 1/2 hr in the grocery store. First guy - a mountain of a man - bumped his cart into mine, and mumbled something about "license and registration and insurance please". LOL. He appeared to be a lifelong farmer. And we do-si-do'd around each other in the aisles till I checked out. The second one, came up behind me while I was loading groceries in the jeep (not a good idea without making some noise with me)... to make a comment on some stuff I'd bought.

I've been shopping there for a year, and there was only one or two other encounters like this I've had. My hair's grown out, because I haven't found a salon and haven't had time to fuss over how I look... but the "list" work is slowing down a little and I am pampering myself a bit. So the hair gets pulled back and there are inevitably wispy bits flying right around my face. I usually am so intent on my shopping list, and minimizing my time in stores that I am walking around inside a force field so strong no one can get in.

But something must be shifting these days. I've relied on a couple of "useful big brother" male friends the past couple years... because rational or not, my feeling - my world is - still in a relationship with Mike. There are clear boundaries with "other guys" as a result. If these guys are noticing me... and feeling bold enough to approach me... and even "play" a little, then I must be appearing to them, as more approachable. It's not threatening or intimidating or even a "potential" situation - it's just humans reacting to humans and a bit of the universe trying to tell me something and see if I'm paying attention.

For awhile there, I couldn't quite escape the idea that I needed to be alert to finding another relationship. So, I was always evaluating the guys I came in contact with and how I felt about them; being around them. So, the hold my "conditioning" - or habit - has on me, seems to be lifting. As you become more comfortable and centered in "just Tupp" and shaking off the belief in your conditioning, I'll bet you start noticing the same kinds of responses from the universe.

Thank you, Skep, yes, someone else's voice, dear lord why didn't someone gag her??!  Lol, it's amazing how much we absorb unquestioningly and how much of it we carry with us.  I will continue to practise noticing but not hearing.  It's easier indoors, I find, I do feel very safe in this flat, something about being 'upstairs' is reassuring.  That and our savage cat, lol :)

It would be nice if the universe is giving you a little sign at the moment, maybe some would even think that Mike thinks you need a bit of company and is showing you that there are some nice guys around and they shop in the same place that you do :)  My friend's daughter passed a few years ago, devastating for my friend and she really struggled to find a reason to carry on.  She had 'one of those days' when a whole series of things went wrong and she ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time - and met a wonderful man who she married three years later.  She's absolutely convinced that her daughter had decided she'd spent enough time by herself and sorted out a bloke for her :)  It's nice to see people happy again after they've experienced such a huge loss and I like to think that the people we love and miss want us to be happy even though they're not here with us.  So I have a little vision of Mike flicking through the profiles on Match.com and picking out the ones he wants you to bump your shopping cart into :)

Here's to centering on ourselves and letting the Universe sort out some nice experiences for us :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on October 22, 2017, 08:42:51 AM
Thanks Tupp - I kinda of think the same thing about Mike. Being the third spouse for each other - and having it work out much better than in the past - that leaves me a little gun-shy about the health of guys my age and the possibility that I would lose another lover to Mother Nature's cycle.

But, I guess at this point in my own journey... my purpose is still to care for others, and I don't often get to intentionally choose who I care for. Freddie the cat just showed up one day, for instance.

I know exactly what you mean about that kind of paralysis when you're standing your ground about a situation with a difficult person to deal with. Going through something similar right now myself. I find I'm frustrated that what I'm asking for seems so simple... and de rigeur... and I've gone out of my way to ask as pleasantly as I can... and STILL I'm not getting anywhere. I guess there are just some people who only respond to the "stick" approach as opposed to the "carrot"... and while I CAN play that part, I resent being forced to. There is more than enough unpleasantness in the world these days for no reason what so ever and if I can avoid it, I try to.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on October 22, 2017, 10:24:50 AM
Thanks Tupp - I kinda of think the same thing about Mike. Being the third spouse for each other - and having it work out much better than in the past - that leaves me a little gun-shy about the health of guys my age and the possibility that I would lose another lover to Mother Nature's cycle.

But, I guess at this point in my own journey... my purpose is still to care for others, and I don't often get to intentionally choose who I care for. Freddie the cat just showed up one day, for instance.

I know exactly what you mean about that kind of paralysis when you're standing your ground about a situation with a difficult person to deal with. Going through something similar right now myself. I find I'm frustrated that what I'm asking for seems so simple... and de rigeur... and I've gone out of my way to ask as pleasantly as I can... and STILL I'm not getting anywhere. I guess there are just some people who only respond to the "stick" approach as opposed to the "carrot"... and while I CAN play that part, I resent being forced to. There is more than enough unpleasantness in the world these days for no reason what so ever and if I can avoid it, I try to.

Argh, yes, that's it exactly, Skep!  I am very aware that all public sector workers are under enormous pressure with heavy work loads so I do what I can to make things as easy as possible - I always write in well in advance of the appointment with an explanation (which is as brief as possible, although admittedly my son's medical conditions are complex so even brief can be a page or so but none the less, I've got quite good at explaining the 'need to know stuff').  I either send copies of relevant paperwork or tell them which hospital it's at so they can request copies themselves (if there's a lot of it or I'm not sure what would be useful to them).  I only request assessments and tests that I feel will benefit my son in a practical way - I'm not fussed about the labels they want to give things so a 'diagnosis only' type assessment is of no use to us, so I don't ask unless it's something that might help.  I check the referral process before hand and. where possible, speak to the doctor we hope to be referred to to check whether they think it would be a useful referral.  I get together all the info a referral would require and everything is neatly typed up, clearly laid out and action points are in numbered form so it's easy to see what's information and what is a request.  I make it clear that I am happy to provide any further information needed and I go into each appointment polite and ready to speak, despite the fact we go through this crap over and over again.  Short of training to be a doctor, there isn't much more I can do.  And yet still the odious little turd has ignored my requests, not bothered to tell me he's ignored them and even when I've chased them up he's still ignored the questions and only responded when I copied in the complaints manager and asked them to check my emails are getting through.  He's made referrals for things he doesn't need, without consulting me, and is refusing to tell me why, and is just generally being unprofessionally and unhelpful.  I fully understand that there are budget restrictions and they won't just refer people willy nilly but if there's a problem I expect everyone to behave like adults and tell me there is a problem so that we can work together to find a way through it - not to just ignore me in the hope that I'll go away!  And breathe :)  It's very time consuming and frustrating and it does mean the support my son needs for college won't be in place by the time he starts because the doc hasn't done his bit and education will only follow on from the stuff the doc has done.  So I just have to hope that he'll cope without it for a while.  So yes, as you say, clear requests, simple requests, all done pleasantly, politely and patiently, and you still end up wanting to whack someone with a stick :)  Lol.  I hope you get yours sorted out soon, is it stuff to do with the house? xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on October 24, 2017, 02:59:15 PM
(((((Tupp)))) I hear you.  Finishing projects sounds so practical.  And uplifting. 

I haven't started indoor projects I wanted to finish before company arrives.  All my energy is going to the yard, and kids/family.  Reading about your plan made my stomach flip with urgency to start and finish, but we can only do what we can do.

BTW I think we're marvelously capable.

:: Nodding::.
Take advantage of the energy you have and keep us updated, won't you.
Light

I think the number of projects we have always outweighs the time and energy available, Lighter!  Yep, we can only do what we can do is what I'm trying to adopt as my new mantra.  I read something interesting online the other day, I forget the exact wording now but it was basically talking about life being something that we measure in terms of things we go out and achieve, rather than difficult experiences that we survive.  I'm trying to adopt a more forgiving approach to myself and to remind myself of just how hard I've worked for so many years and how much I've had to cope with - not through choice but because it's happenend and I've had to get on with it.  So the last three days I've been resting a lot, just because I felt like it and, instead of feeling guilty because of it, I tried to focus on being lucky enough to be able to do it at the moment - no endlessly pressing, urgent jobs that need doing, son is happy doing his own thing indoors, I've been ordering the food shopping online so we're well stocked up, I can relax and potter about and not worry about it.  Trying to focus on the good, rather than the should :) xx

Hi Tupp:

I have so much catching up to do on the board.  Will start here.  Reading bits and pieces has me thinking about noticing the normal cadence of our lives.  What goes on in our heads, and how we meet it.  Pulling weeds 6 hours a day is good for this.

I like that you're noticing and challenging, Tupp.  It can be invigorating to SEE the negative patterns, then KNOW we can change them.  Changing is harder than SEEING, IME, but it's exciting to tease out what's IN our heads, and KNOW we can choose other things.  It feels very hopeful to me.

Love ya, Tupp.
Light
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on October 25, 2017, 03:44:56 AM
(((((Tupp)))) I hear you.  Finishing projects sounds so practical.  And uplifting. 

I haven't started indoor projects I wanted to finish before company arrives.  All my energy is going to the yard, and kids/family.  Reading about your plan made my stomach flip with urgency to start and finish, but we can only do what we can do.

BTW I think we're marvelously capable.

:: Nodding::.
Take advantage of the energy you have and keep us updated, won't you.
Light

I think the number of projects we have always outweighs the time and energy available, Lighter!  Yep, we can only do what we can do is what I'm trying to adopt as my new mantra.  I read something interesting online the other day, I forget the exact wording now but it was basically talking about life being something that we measure in terms of things we go out and achieve, rather than difficult experiences that we survive.  I'm trying to adopt a more forgiving approach to myself and to remind myself of just how hard I've worked for so many years and how much I've had to cope with - not through choice but because it's happenend and I've had to get on with it.  So the last three days I've been resting a lot, just because I felt like it and, instead of feeling guilty because of it, I tried to focus on being lucky enough to be able to do it at the moment - no endlessly pressing, urgent jobs that need doing, son is happy doing his own thing indoors, I've been ordering the food shopping online so we're well stocked up, I can relax and potter about and not worry about it.  Trying to focus on the good, rather than the should :) xx

Hi Tupp:

I have so much catching up to do on the board.  Will start here.  Reading bits and pieces has me thinking about noticing the normal cadence of our lives.  What goes on in our heads, and how we meet it.  Pulling weeds 6 hours a day is good for this.

I like that you're noticing and challenging, Tupp.  It can be invigorating to SEE the negative patterns, then KNOW we can change them.  Changing is harder than SEEING, IME, but it's exciting to tease out what's IN our heads, and KNOW we can choose other things.  It feels very hopeful to me.

Love ya, Tupp.
Light

I agree, Lighter, I am trying to manage my overall stress levels better so that I can actively work with what I keep seeing in my head.  I was reading an article about decluttering and it talks about de-cluttering possessions, and I'm fairly good at that, largely because we don't have a lot of storage space so there just isn't room for a lot of stuff.

But I do clutter my head, I think, and I'm trying to reduce that.  I spent some time unsubscribing from various email newsletters and blogs I signed up for and went through my social media feed and got rid of anything that doesn't make me smile or invigorate me in some way.  I used to think that if I surrounded myself with things it would inspire me to have the kind of life I want and open new horizons for me but in reality I think it was just making me more unsatisfied with my current life and make me yearn for things I don't have.  So I've streamlined an awful lot and I'm trying to get back to a simpler way of thinking and keeping my head clearer so that I can notice and address my thoughts.  I do notice a lot of resistance but I suppose just keep chipping away at it and see how it goes.

In other news - my younger sister's father in law died very suddenly and their whole family are devastated.  There has been a huge outpouring on social media, lots of lovely stories about what a great man he was, how much he will be missed and so on.  The funeral is today, they are expecting a large turnout, on the day he died the landlady at his local pub poured him a pint and left it out on the bar all day.  People have been popping in to pay their respects and his friends had a whip round for his wife so she has a bit of pin money whilst all the legal bits and pieces are sorted out.  It made me feel terribly sad for my mum who, quite frankly, will be missed by very few.  She can see all of this being posted on Facebook and I can't help but feel sad for her as I'm sure she knows that when she goes there won't be a huge outpouring of grief or endless posts about how wonderful she was, either online or anywhere else.  I feel sad that she never reached out for the help she could have got to help her deal with how she feels and how she treats people.  It is out there - it's hard, it's a rocky path, it's often expensive, but it's there and she could have tried.  It just makes me sad that she was never brave enough to try.

Anyway - in other, other news - my son went out with his Youth Club yesterday and I had four hours off :)  I spent them in town - a whole hour browsing the second hand book shop - my favourite place :)  I wandered around all the charity shops, I didn't buy much but I just really enjoyed being able to look and linger and wander.  My son's autism means that things have to be precise so usually it's in the shop, buy what we need, leave.  There's no time to linger so it was lovely just to be and not have to think or keep calculating how much more he could manage before we needed to leave.

I bought a sandwich and a coffee in the baker's and sat at the window, intending to read one of the books I bought but ending up people watching instead.  I had a few errands to run and it was lovely to get those done without having to check he was okay or keep explaining where we were going and what for.  It was even nice to cross a road without having to say "Stop at the kerb.  Good, what's next?  That's it, look to the right, then to the left.  Look again.  Any vehicles coming?  No?  Okay let's go".  So easy just to glance and then cross :)  We both really enjoyed ourselves separately.  I bought him a kids' book called 'How to Handle Your Mum', it's a humorous book about working out how mums always know what you're doing and how to stop them embarrassing you in public.  He laughed and said it needs a chapter on stopping your mum from singing as well :)  It was a really nice day and he's out again on Friday :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on October 25, 2017, 11:07:40 AM
What simple bliss.
I am so happy you had that afternoon off, have another coming, and ultimately more.

Tupp, the caregiver thing...I really do get it.
It's a way to play out your highest values but can be a way that wears you to the bone. At the same time.

You have done such an incredible, incredible job.
Your young man with autism has humor, spunk, and he knows he is loved.

You haven't quite got him to the college living point, but you will. It's coming.

You deserve so many more peaceful, simple afternoons in the sun.
(That's really all any of us need, we just get confused by the culture and consumerism.)

I downsized less than you but still fairly drastically. It truly does rearrange one's thoughts
about life, self, purpose, community, planet. I think you've been absolutely amazing.

love to you,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on October 25, 2017, 11:58:14 AM
What simple bliss.
I am so happy you had that afternoon off, have another coming, and ultimately more.

Tupp, the caregiver thing...I really do get it.
It's a way to play out your highest values but can be a way that wears you to the bone. At the same time.

You have done such an incredible, incredible job.
Your young man with autism has humor, spunk, and he knows he is loved.

You haven't quite got him to the college living point, but you will. It's coming.

You deserve so many more peaceful, simple afternoons in the sun.
(That's really all any of us need, we just get confused by the culture and consumerism.)

I downsized less than you but still fairly drastically. It truly does rearrange one's thoughts
about life, self, purpose, community, planet. I think you've been absolutely amazing.

love to you,
Hops

Aw, Hops, thank you so much, the replies on these threads mean so much to me and give me so much strength and food for thought, I can't tell you, thank you :)

"We just get confused by the culture and consumerism" - that's exactly it.  There's so much pumped into us so constantly, yet if you take time out to think, so much of it just isn't necessary.  There are definitely things that make my life easier - I'm glad I get clean water out of a tap instead of having to go and haul it out of a well or walk six miles to fill a bucket from a stream - but so much of the rest of it is just noise.  Not just actual things but newspapers, magazines, TV, radio, internet, so many thoughts and words and points of view.  For a long time I thought reading and watching a lot of stuff was helping me learn and be more aware of the world but now I'm thinking I just overloaded my brain and gave myself too many things to worry and fret about.  I really noticed the difference in that book shop yesterday.  Because all the books are second hand they don't promote or push certain things the way a lot of shops do.  The only fancy displays are the ones in the glass cases of the really rare, very valuable books.  Every thing else is stacked floor to ceiling and when they run out of shelf space they start piling them in boxes on the floor.  They're arranged according to subject and then alphabetically but there's no-one trying to convince you to buy a certain thing.  You take in what's there and pick whatever takes your fancy, and if you want a particular title the staff can tell you whether they have it or not, despite the fact there are literally thousands of books.  And that's what I want my life to be more like now - browsing what's in front of me, picking it up if it appeals, leaving it be if it doesn't and if I need something in particular asking for it specifically.

Here's to more book shop afternoons for all of us, particularly with sun, tea and cakes :)

Thank you once again :) Love Tup xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on October 27, 2017, 11:51:12 AM
A funny day with mixed messages.  My son went to an art class so I had five whole hours to myself.  I went out for brunch, did some shopping and people watched, and I really noticed how many nice, ordinary people there are around - just doing their thing, minding their own business and getting on with their lives.  I saw lots of disabled people today, all being well looked after and the cafe I was in had a steady stream of disabled customers and the staff were lovely to them and really looked after them well.  It was so nice to see.

I mentioned in an earlier thread that I'd felt sad since my sister's father-in-law passed, knowing that my mum won't be missed and mourned the way he is being.  I'd wondered if my mum would be thinking that as well but I got a call from my sister earlier and no, she isn't!  My sister's baby boy was a year old  two days before the father-in=laws funeral.  They gave him a really good day, in honour of the granddad as they knew he would want them all to have a lovely time.  My mum wrote birthday messages on my sister's Facebook page but didn't ring, text or send a card or gift.  She did, however, find time to send me another parcel, which I received today and had a quick flick through.  There are my old school reports (thirty years old), Mother's Day cards I've sent her over the years including ones I made at primary school and photographs of my sister's kids.  I've chucked it all in the bin, I've really no interest, but I thought how sad, she has living, breathing relatives she could be enjoying and spending time with but she's spent the last week sorting through boxes of thirty year old paperwork to send to someone who hasn't spoken to her for more than a decade.  What a terribly sad waste of a life.  The one thing it has made me realise is that I'm not scared I'll turn into her anymore.  I can see now that I'm just too different and too aware of myself to go down that road and end up like that, thank goodness.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on October 29, 2017, 03:33:42 AM
I was thinking today about consent and how I still look for signs that it's 'okay' to do or say what I want to do or say.  Still very much caught up in being good or likeable, I suppose.  So I think this week's focus is to slow down and take time to process how I feel about things rather than my focus being on what someone else thinks about what I'm doing.

We have had the most amazing week.  My son has done lots of new activities with new people and really enjoyed it.  I've really enjoyed having the time off and time to just see and feel and not always be thinking about him.  We've met lots of new people who on the whole have been very nice - only one I need to try and avoid in the future!  Lol.  The weather's been very sunny as well and we're starting to get the hang of the local buses and trains now so I'm not needing to keep checking and rechecking timetables.

My grumbling about the consultant finally seems to be moving things in the right direction so fingers crossed we are slowly getting there.  I'm cleaning and clearing out the van; the MOT is booked for Wednesday and she'll be going up for sale as soon as that's done.  I am noticing the extra money that's coming from not having our own transport, and the extra time at home now that we're not rushing around as much.  I've bought my son's main Christmas present and have started telling people we're not doing presents anymore (for other people) and it's funny how many people are relieved by it?  Why do we put ourselves under so much pressure?

My son's disability benefits have been sorted; it has taken a long time but it's all gone through and we've actually ended up with a bit of extra cash that I wasn't expecting so I can use that to buy the flooring for his bedroom.  All in all we've had a really lovely week and now we have a nice quiet day in which to nap and catch up on little odd jobs.

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on October 30, 2017, 09:39:19 AM
I don't want to jinx anything, but it sure sounds like you've had a major turning point, Tupp. I really like your comparison of the bookshop, to an approach to life. It's one I think I'm invested in - despite the penchant for lists and planning.

My lists are all about not trusting myself to remember the "important" things; getting distracted by something else that seems a lot more fun or interesting in the moment.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 01, 2017, 01:59:36 PM
I don't want to jinx anything, but it sure sounds like you've had a major turning point, Tupp. I really like your comparison of the bookshop, to an approach to life. It's one I think I'm invested in - despite the penchant for lists and planning.

My lists are all about not trusting myself to remember the "important" things; getting distracted by something else that seems a lot more fun or interesting in the moment.

Thank you, Skep, I think so/hope so, too!  I did wobble a bit over the last couple of days, I'm realising more and more it's harder to stick with my new habits when there's a lot to do so I'm continuing with my streamlining/cutting back approach to day to day life and trying to make myself take breaks and sit outside with my coffee instead of hunched over the kitchen table.

Yes, the lists, I do forget things if I don't write them down but I still need to focus on writing down what I need to do rather than what I think I ought to be doing.  I do put more pressure on myself which is silly.  I have written myself one long list of things that need to be done between now and Christmas - mostly paperwork deadlines and birthdays to remember.  But I do need to remind myself that I don't have to plough through the list, I can do it a little bit at a time.

In other news - I have decided to be a bit more proactive with men.  There are two or three potentially eligible bachelors I know and one of them got in touch a few days ago.  All my old 'I'm not good enough' stuff started racing through my head and really knocked me off my stride for a few days but this morning I thought just suggest coffee and use it as an opportunity to get to know more about him and decide WHETHER I LIKE HIM ENOUGH TO SEE HIM AGAIN rather than worrying about whether he wants to see me.  I am trying to focus more on the other person rather than myself.

And finally - my mum.  My sister sent her an email telling her how disappointed she's been with her behaviour recently and that she's not willing to let her carry on treating her kids differently, etc etc.  She received no reply for a few days, and today received a text saying that she (mum) has had a fall and has to rest - same pattern, every time.  I do think my sister is starting to stand up for herself more which is good :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on November 03, 2017, 09:05:42 AM
Tupps, right now I don't feel too qualified to give advice on starting/developing a male-female relationship. In some ways, it's still too much like the third rail on a subway train for me. As in, I'm worse than a gawky, awkward sexually frustrated with raging hormones, teenager.

I like your approach though. It's open - but safe. No expectations to be shattered on either side; but not running & hiding either.

I suspect I really am too emotionally "needy" (mixed up with truly missing the man I lost) at this point to even have any clear perceptions about what I'm feeling in any instance/interaction and I can't run on auto-pilot just yet... I just can't trust my subconscious self at the moment. Not until I've invested more of the "right stuff" in myself to really have that kind of confidence in myself again. I'm dancing to close to the edge of the cliff... and that's where bad things happen, in my experience.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 03, 2017, 01:41:50 PM
Tupps, right now I don't feel too qualified to give advice on starting/developing a male-female relationship. In some ways, it's still too much like the third rail on a subway train for me. As in, I'm worse than a gawky, awkward sexually frustrated with raging hormones, teenager.

I like your approach though. It's open - but safe. No expectations to be shattered on either side; but not running & hiding either.

I suspect I really am too emotionally "needy" (mixed up with truly missing the man I lost) at this point to even have any clear perceptions about what I'm feeling in any instance/interaction and I can't run on auto-pilot just yet... I just can't trust my subconscious self at the moment. Not until I've invested more of the "right stuff" in myself to really have that kind of confidence in myself again. I'm dancing to close to the edge of the cliff... and that's where bad things happen, in my experience.

That makes sense to me, Skep, it's difficult to find that balance, I think, between protecting ourselves and looking after ourselves and not taking a risk.  I find it hard because some days a rejection genuinely wouldn't bother me but other days it just about finishes me off and of course you don't know when it might happen!  So I understand what you're saying, it's a difficult path to walk.

Oddly enough, I asked him if he'd like to meet for coffee, really from a point of taking control of the situation rather than sitting there waiting to be asked to dance.  Almost from the point of asking I found myself thinking I don't actually want to meet up with him.  I kind of know in my mind the sort of guy I would really love to be with and he isn't it.  But then I think, there I go, taking it further than it is, a coffee is just that - nothing more.  If I don't feel the need to see him again I don't have to.  I think a lot of it with me is ego or confidence - I do love that feeling when you first meet someone and they're really keen to see you - the phone calls in the evening, the odd text message during the day, just that thing that you know someone is thinking of you.  But equally I know I can feel very deflated if that doesn't happen - whilst also being aware that the guy who calls every night isn't necessarily the guy who would stay in and look after you when you're ill, and when it comes to relationships you need the steady guy, not the one who'll get bored when you can't join in the fun.

It's funny but it's made me think a lot about my last serious relationship.  He was handsome and funny, very charming, very attentive, very romantic, all those things that make you sigh and think aw, this is so lovely.  He was also stoned most of the time, rarely got off his arse to go to work, lived rent free in my house (my bad, that's not a mistake I'd make again) and generally lived in a sort of la la land where reality never really got any recognition.  So it's unchartered territory for me really, I've never had a relationship where I've had boundaries or certain standards before?  But seeing as I've not even had a coffee date yet I'm getting ahead of myself again, lol.

Anyway - I am feeling keen to get back in the game which I think must be a good thing :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on November 05, 2017, 10:52:30 PM
Tupp:
I'm re writing this post a third time.  It's difficult to respond to many things at a go, esp from a phone.

I do enjoy thinking of you paying attention to what you want and feel on a coffee date.  Putting your needs up front while kicking expectations to the curb appeals to me very much right now.  Remember to believe him when he tells you who he is please.  Remember to honor your intuition. To notice how you feel.  Listen, and don't feel obligated to give information about yourself bc he's asking.  Do it in your time, if you do it at all, k?

Drat, I had so many things I wanted to respond to.  Will post this and keep coming back. 
Lighter

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 06, 2017, 04:06:59 AM
Tupp:
I'm re writing this post a third time.  It's difficult to respond to many things at a go, esp from a phone.

I do enjoy thinking of you paying attention to what you want and feel on a coffee date.  Putting your needs up front while kicking expectations to the curb appeals to me very much right now.  Remember to believe him when he tells you who he is please.  Remember to honor your intuition. To notice how you feel.  Listen, and don't feel obligated to give information about yourself bc he's asking.  Do it in your time, if you do it at all, k?

Drat, I had so many things I wanted to respond to.  Will post this and keep coming back. 
Lighter

Ah, it's very frustrating when you post and things vanish or the computer goes off or the internet dies, etc - I know that feeling!

Yes, I am feeling huuuuuuge resistance to putting my needs first, not thinking about other people, daring to demand attention, to have expectations, to not feel obliged to 'do' something for a man because he's agreed to accept my company for an hour.  Old feelings of self worth coming to the surface.  Even yesterday, when we went out, I noticed I was struggling to inconvenience other people in any way.  The ticket machine was broken at the station so we had to buy onboard.  My son has a disability card, which means he gets a discount.  The guy couldn't find the discount button on his tablet to issue the ticket and I heard myself say "Oh don't worry, we'll just pay full price".  He did find it in the end, but I was cross with myself for getting anxious about something that was someone else's problem and jumping in to rescue them.  When we got to the cinema the film had already started so it was difficult to find our seats in the dark.  It transpired that someone else was sitting in them - and I felt guilty asking them to move!  How silly is that??!  I did ask though, so I tried to focus on that but I would love to be able to go through these small daily interactions without a tsunami of emotion going on in my head and my heart. xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 06, 2017, 05:11:54 AM
Just posting a tussle that's going on in my head at the mo.

We've been invited to a friend's birthday party.  When my son first got ill, I was part of a wide circle of people.  Almost all of those people just vanished when he because unwell and have made no effort at all, in the last four years, to see him or call to ask how he is or offer to help.  The friend who invited us is the only one that made any effort to keep in touch.

What's going through my head is that, basically, I don't want to go, but I already said I would.  I would like to see this particular friend and my son loves to dance so he will enjoy himself.  I don't want to see any of the other people there, as they will be all the people that I used to think of as friends but who made no effort to help out during my son's illness.  I do find social situations like this aren't my cup of tea any more, as it's basically just people getting together to get drunk.  There's a lot of gossip and it will get back to my mum/step-dad, via a number of people, that we were at the party.  Essentially this is my old life - people I knew from childhood who, if I'm honest, I would never have kept in contact with if life had been different and I'd gone off abroad to my dazzling, globe trotting career that I craved.

I keep thinking of pluses and minuses.  I do appreciate that this friend made some effort with my son.  She has always invited my son to her son's birthday parties and invited us over for Christmas as she knows we're on our own.  There have been a couple of times in the past that she's had my son for me when I've had an appointment.  She took him for the day when I had my suspected heart attack and was rushed to hospital.  So I am grateful to her for all of this and would like to see her.  But the thought of all the other people at the party is putting me off.

My son will enjoy it because he loves to dance.  Part of me thinks these are demons from the past I ought to face.  Another part thinks I could put the time, energy and money into doing something more constructive than worrying about a load of people who don't care about me.  I feel obliged to go because I've already said I would but really I'm feeling that I'd prefer not to go and just meet her for lunch or a coffee instead.  Some times I think about it and I feel like it would be a good chance to practise not caring what people think and not being tied up in knots about things.  Other times I think the best way not to care what people think is not to be around small minded people who gossip and mind other people's business.

Anyway, just putting it there as I mull it over.  What do you all think? xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 06, 2017, 05:24:49 AM
Well just writing that down helped me answer my own question, lol, I do like her but I don't like her friends and I don't need to justify that to myself, I don't want to spend time with them and I don't need to come up with a long list of reasons why and decide whether or not it is okay :)  So I am just going to tell her that I'm finding social things a bit difficult at the mo and would she like to come out for lunch another day instead.  Question answered :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on November 06, 2017, 08:19:33 AM
Good for you!
I had just been thinking you could do almost exactly that.

She sounds like a good person and a friendship well worth it.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 07, 2017, 03:20:33 AM
Good for you!
I had just been thinking you could do almost exactly that.

She sounds like a good person and a friendship well worth it.

Hugs
Hops

Hops, thank you, it's so funny how sometimes just writing it all down can sort it out in your head and make the answer appear :)  The only thing I still feel a little bad over is that I've already accepted the invite and I don't like to cancel but that will just be my lesson for next time, to pause to think before accepting what I know, without thinking, will be an encounter I won't enjoy.  But yes, I enjoy her company and she has been a good friend so I would like to celebrate with her, I just don't want to see everyone else :)

In other news - I feel I am becoming entangled in the family spider web again.  And I don't want to be.  I've been back in contact with my sister for three years, after a ten year estrangement that was largely caused by my mum.  She lives a long way from us so our contact is largely by text and phone.  We don't have an enormous amount in common but I have enjoyed being back in contact with her again.  It has given me some insight into the ways my mum manipulated her to cause problems for me and more recently she has started to stand up to my mum a bit, and I was glad for her doing that, for her own sake.

It does, however, mean that the sleeping bear has been poked, and I don't think that my mum sending things to me (or my son, more specifically) is unrelated to the fact that a gulf is opening between her and my sister and my sister isn't cossetting and indulging her anymore.  I wanted to help, and not from a co-dependent point of view, but because I know how difficult it is to escape that situation and how painful it is to sever those ties so I have been lending an ear and I hope good advice, mostly along the lines of 'focus on your life, do nice things for you and your kids, mum won't change so ignore the bad behaviour as best you can and concentrate on enjoying yourselves'.  I know from past experience how difficult that is to do and how, once you finally get the courage to answer back, decades of unsaid words just force their way forward and walking away without a fight is incredibly hard.

But ................ this latest spat has come about after my sister's father in law passed away.  I've already written about my mum's behaviour in other posts so I won't repeat, but essentially she follows her usual pattern, which is to regain the person's full attention by ignoring something special to them, becoming ill, going through the victim mantra (my own mother hated me, she tried to abort me, I know you all think I'm a bad mother, etc etc) and then it culminates in a 'nice' email in which my mum essentially presents herself as the sweet grandma who is really trying her best but it's never good enough for everyone else, she doesn't know what goes on, etc etc.  My sister had emailed it to me.  I do feel strong enough to watch with detachment now so I said I would read it, which I did, and I said again to my sis to ignore it, she won't get anywhere fighting with her, just get on with your life and keep your contact with her to a minimum (as she doesn't want to go NC).  Buried in that email was a reference to me, it made no sense and seeing the time of day it was sent my mum was probably drunk when she wrote it so I just ignored; I do find I can switch my emotions off quite quickly now when it comes to my mum whereas there was a time when it used to take days.

Anyway, my sister did reply to my mum and sent me a copy, and I didn't stop to think whether it might upset me or not.  I must think more before opening emails!!  The email is polite, honest, assertive and accepts there are differences of opinion - a therapist would be proud!  But it ends with a reference to me, where my sister talks about how she's always had to live in my shadow and even now after ten years of estrangement my mum still brings me up.  Those old childhood wounds are obviously still very raw for both of us, and always have been - she was the scapegoat, I was the golden child.  I was aware of that and always tried to compensate for the way our mum treated us differently.  Without wishing to diminish her pain, the pressure that I have been under my whole life has always been immense, and that of peacekeeper.  Always trying to keep everyone happy and always at my own expense.  Comforting my mum after her fights with my dad, clearing up the broken crockery that she used to throw at him, never taking my problems to her so she wasn't bothered by them, always being in Tup mode, laughing and joking and smiling because that's what she liked and it used to make  life easier.  When my sister did wrong - which, to be fair, was pretty much anything she did - I tried to cover it up so she wouldn't get in trouble.  When my mum moved that vile little man in I was nice to him so that she wouldn't feel she'd done wrong and when he started abusing me I didn't say anything because I didn't want to upset anyone.  The Golden Child crown isn't the barrel of laughs it appears to be.

Just needed to vent.  I will just take some time to process.  I don't want to become enmeshed.  I am happy to support my sister.  I hope she can get free and start to rebuild.  It's a long road.  But I don't feel comfortable being referenced by either one of them during their arguments.  Bleurgh.  Families.  On days like this I am glad of my atypical, dsyfunctional in appearance mum and son only band.  Better than this bag of cats.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on November 07, 2017, 07:22:04 AM
Shudder.
Were I in your shoes I'd gently tell your sister that you are in her corner, always, but have realized that email isn't the place for you to get involved, or even read a copy. Encourage her to call you when she needs to talk about it.

But (unsolicited advice sound effect....) consider STAYING OFF email and social media when it comes to anything about your mother....

I just say this because I have learned that emails and posts can slide right between ribs into a valuable, vulnerable psychic space that can be disturbed, even deeply disturbed, when I sit here alone and read something risky. Somehow, a phone call isn't disorienting in the same way.

Anyway, you're wise and fair with your sister and that's gotta be enough, right?

love
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 07, 2017, 02:17:03 PM
Shudder.
Were I in your shoes I'd gently tell your sister that you are in her corner, always, but have realized that email isn't the place for you to get involved, or even read a copy. Encourage her to call you when she needs to talk about it.

But (unsolicited advice sound effect....) consider STAYING OFF email and social media when it comes to anything about your mother....

I just say this because I have learned that emails and posts can slide right between ribs into a valuable, vulnerable psychic space that can be disturbed, even deeply disturbed, when I sit here alone and read something risky. Somehow, a phone call isn't disorienting in the same way.

Anyway, you're wise and fair with your sister and that's gotta be enough, right?

love
Hops

Sage advice as always, Hops, thank you :)

I have left alone for the time being.  I think my sister needs to do a bit of soul searching and start getting to a point where either she figures out ways to cope with my mum's behaviour or she stops contact altogether.  Much harder than it sounds, I know, but I feel like the third corner of the triangle at the moment and I really don't want to be.  V good advice re email and Facebook; Facebook I rarely use now and any other emails I think I'll just delete without reading - as you say, if she wants to talk we can do that instead.

She did text earlier to ask if I've read it and I just said yes and asked how she was.  She has fybromyalgia and is currently experiencing a flare up, probably from all the stress, and the doc has just told her she has high blood pressure as well.  I just said hopefully things will settle down now and left it at that.  I think she either needs to accept this is the way things are and not let it get to her, or cut of contact with her.  I know which of the two I find easier but equally know that either situation is difficult, plus it's a decision she needs to reach alone so I've not brought it up.  I am going through my usual 'I wish I'd moved abroad and didn't know these people' thing.  Lol.

Anyway - we have a fairly quiet week so I am resting, trying to eat well, sleep plenty and so on.  Winter is really setting in here now so I want to boost myself up and get through it fit and healthy.  I want to focus on healing over the winter; tying up loose ends, finishing projects off, being as ready as possible for (hopefully) son starting college in January so that I can enjoy that time to myself and not be too worn out to appreciate it!

Thank you again for the support, it really means a lot xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 08, 2017, 04:21:52 AM
Again, just updating to keep things straight in my own mind.

I re-read those emails between my mum and my sister this morning just before deleting them.  It did make me realise that my sister needs to do some work on herself, some soul searching, start putting some boundaries in place and figuring things out for herself.  The more I thought about it the more I feel hurt? aggrieved? by her comments about me.  They weren't necessary, it was kind of tacked on the end, plus she sent to me knowing I would read it.  I still don't feel she has an understanding of the abuse I have been through.  I think she still sees me as the favourite and the one that did okay out of this.  So - I think better for me to take a step away.  I still want to be in contact with her but I think I'm probably better off saying I don't want to know about mum.  It just feels like this pit of dysfunction that I've worked so hard to get out of and I don't want to be even near the edge of it.

I do feel some guilt as I know I have had a lot of help from therapists, forums (this one in particular), self help books, various people that have come into my life at different times.  I am very grateful for that and I do tend to feel 'bad' when other people haven't had the same, but equally I went looking for those things.  I wanted to learn, I wanted to change, I wanted life to get better so I've strived and reached and been through some horribly dark times to get there.  I've largely done it on my own (in the practical sense of the word) and mostly on a low income as well, so it's been hard work and I know I shouldn't feel guilty but still there is a sliver.  I shall ignore.

Also feeling somewhat the same about a friend at the moment who seems on the verge of forgiving her estranged husband yet another affair.  He is very manipulative and she is very desperate for her child to grow up in a family unit.  The situation has been going on for about two years - break up, work at it, she puts in all the effort, time, money etc, everything's wonderful, he does it again and so on.  The last time she threw him out seemed to be it; she was very determined that it was over and she wasn't going to keep putting up with things.  Now it's starting to look like she's going to give it another go - her business but I am tired of listening, providing tea and tissues, talking things through and then repeating three months later.  Feel a little guilty about that but equally know it isn't something I can keep doing xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on November 08, 2017, 12:44:50 PM
Bravo, bravo, bravo.

People who learn assertiveness can manage to draw boundaries within relationships, even those they care about (like your sister and your friend). Good relationships can survive that.

Carolyn Hax....I hope you can read her column in the Washington Post online, is my Goddess of Healthful Assertiveness, and Empress of Sane Boundary-Setting.

Oh good for you, Tupp.

Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on November 08, 2017, 01:27:49 PM
Hi Tupp:

It's hard to know if you're gaining emotional distance, and handling old FOO stuff better, or just getting better at compartmentalizing.  If it's the latter, is that a good or bad thing?  I don't know, but I do notice when I handle upsetting topics better lately.  Sometimes something comes up and my stomach FLIPS in anticipation of FEELING something negative, only to find there's nothing or something quite positive come up instead.  A blessing, but really positive I think. Growth.

::nodding::

I like Hop's advice about not reading the e mail exchanges between your mum and sis.  The things your sister writes about you come from the heart of a deeply wounded child, and sis hasn't had the benefit of therapy you've sought for yourself, as you wrote.  It's hurtful though, and limiting the harm, while maximizing the sibling relationship is worth some thought, and serious boundary placements, IMO.  I'd find it difficult to put the relationship down too, Tupp.  Remember phrases like...
Let me know how that works out for you, and
I'm sure you'll figure that out.

You can't fix sis, or make her understand anything, but you can create space for her to feel heard, and responsible for what goes on between her and your mum.  People tend to listen more when we aren't trying to convince or persuade them of our view.  They tend to ask for our advice more often, and HEAR what we have to say when we're reserved with our POV, IME. 

Remember you can repeat back her own words to you, and have that be enough.  You aren't the fixer, problem solver any more.  You're free to lend support, and go back to your own life.  You can seek your joy, even when others are struggling..... it's OK.  It's time.  Model that for your sister, and leave guilt behind as you can. 

I'm so excited about college starting in January for your son.  Woo hoo, yes!

Lighter 

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 11, 2017, 03:11:26 AM
Hi Tupp:

It's hard to know if you're gaining emotional distance, and handling old FOO stuff better, or just getting better at compartmentalizing.  If it's the latter, is that a good or bad thing?  I don't know, but I do notice when I handle upsetting topics better lately.  Sometimes something comes up and my stomach FLIPS in anticipation of FEELING something negative, only to find there's nothing or something quite positive come up instead.  A blessing, but really positive I think. Growth.

::nodding::

I like Hop's advice about not reading the e mail exchanges between your mum and sis.  The things your sister writes about you come from the heart of a deeply wounded child, and sis hasn't had the benefit of therapy you've sought for yourself, as you wrote.  It's hurtful though, and limiting the harm, while maximizing the sibling relationship is worth some thought, and serious boundary placements, IMO.  I'd find it difficult to put the relationship down too, Tupp.  Remember phrases like...
Let me know how that works out for you, and
I'm sure you'll figure that out.

You can't fix sis, or make her understand anything, but you can create space for her to feel heard, and responsible for what goes on between her and your mum.  People tend to listen more when we aren't trying to convince or persuade them of our view.  They tend to ask for our advice more often, and HEAR what we have to say when we're reserved with our POV, IME. 

Remember you can repeat back her own words to you, and have that be enough.  You aren't the fixer, problem solver any more.  You're free to lend support, and go back to your own life.  You can seek your joy, even when others are struggling..... it's OK.  It's time.  Model that for your sister, and leave guilt behind as you can. 

I'm so excited about college starting in January for your son.  Woo hoo, yes!

Lighter

Hi Lighter :)

I think perhaps a combination of handling old stuff better, compartmentalizing and really just being in a situation of seeing those old patterns surface and thinking, "well if I do what I did last time this won't change".  I really try now to focus on putting my energy into something positive or useful rather than letting my mum suck it all out and control the situation (which essentially is always her aim).  I have encouraged my sis to try similar and focus on doing something nice with her kids instead of responding to my mum or jumping through her hoops, which is easier said than done - those Pavlov's Dog reactions are very deeply ingrained.

And yes, you are right about the comments, it's her inner child speaking and mine responding :)  Such old wounds.  We are in a good place, though.  She was happy with the boundary I set and understands why, and that's a first for me.  Almost everyone else I've ever needed to set a boundary with has rejected me and I've found that very painful and difficult to deal with.  So her acceptance of it has really encouraged me there is a future for us and we can keep getting to know each other and help each other to heal, hopefully.

I am slightly less excited about college at the mo.  The local authority have sent my son's plan though and it's awful.  The process is supposed to be that all the relevant medical, educational and social information is collated and broken down into a meaningful plan with short, medium and long term targets and clear explanations of what will be done to try to meet those targets.  They've copied and pasted some bits from one report and ignored thirty odd pages from somewhere else, contacted a medical centre that my son's never been to and then put in their 'Not Known' response as his medical section, and then claimed we've never been seen by someone who did a fairly lengthy assessment which they have a copy of.  So I have a lot of rewriting to do over the weekend and it has worried me that he won't get his place now, added to which the NHS have still not even made the referrals we needed as part of the process so there are some bits that won't be documented regardless.  I spent five hours working through it yesterday and can see myself at it all day today and tomorrow.  It has burst my bubble a bit but we will just have to see where we get to with it.

In other news, man I thought I would like to have a coffee with was keen, then didn't respond, then got in touch, then didn't respond again.  I've been focusing on my feelings about what I want and who I want it with rather than my old response of doing or being what someone else wants in the hope that they'll like me (and this is just coffee with a guy I already know; I'm starting off small!  Lol).  So, platonic or romantic, I like people who get on with things - if getting together is mentioned I like to get a date down straight away (the date doesn't have to be straight away, I just like to get a firm plan made rather than 'let's get together and three months later there's still no date set).  Initially I scolded myself for being impatient and then I thought, no, you're a busy lady, you've got things to do and you need people around you who get on with things, make plans and, probably most importantly, want to see you enough to mark a space in their diaries to fit you in.  That's probably the key thing for me at the mo.

Anyway - back to the paperwork!  I'll keep you posted and catch up on other threads later xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 12, 2017, 02:34:44 AM
Just rambling on here - I feel like every set back now takes another piece of my soul and moves me one step closer to being an empty shell with nothing left to offer.

I spent almost all day yesterday going through my son's paperwork for this college placement.  They haven't followed the law, contacted the necessary people or put together a cohesive, useful plan.  It's so badly written it took me five hours just to work out what they hadn't done (the legislative framework is complex and new to me so I've been having to get my head around sections and then look for the corresponding sections in their report).  We have a lengthy medical report that they've just ignored and essentially they haven't actually done the assessment they were supposed to.  I applied for this in August and it all needs to be finalised within the next month for us to have any chance of him starting in January.  Essentially, the chances of this happening now are slim to nothing and, at best, I will have a lot more paperwork, phone calls and emails to wade through.  At worst, we will end up in court again, trying to get a judge to make these people do the jobs they are paid to do.

I just feel I have nothing left.  No reserves to dig into, no more depths to plummet, no more tricks to pull out of the bag.  I work so hard and have provided them with meticulous accounts of information, with frequent offers of "I have more if you need it".  They've not communicated any problems to me, so I assumed everything was fine - part of my 'giving up control' desire not to keep checking and double checking.  But they've done a terrible job and created a lot more work for me, as well making it fairly certain that my son won't be starting college in January.  I've lost count now of the number of times we've been knocked in this way over the last fourteen years.  I just don't feel like I'm recovering from it anymore.  I don't even feel like I want to try, to be honest.

A friend popped over last night and brought food.  I should have felt glad of the distraction and the company but I didn't.  I just felt empty and critical and was wishing I was sitting there on my own.  I feel like all the life has been knocked out of me again and I don't feel like I've got the energy to try and stuff it back in again - knowing full well it's only a matter of time before this happens again.

Just needed to vent.  There's nothing anyone can do.  It's just how the system is here.  I'm just so very, very tired of always being on the receiving end of it.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on November 12, 2017, 11:06:29 AM
Hi Tupp:

I'm sorry this college application process turned into one dropped ball after another to be chased.  Again.  I felt sick to the pit if my stomach reading how you feel.  It's a familiar bone deep memory for me.  Gutting through it was all knew to do.  It's what I did. 

I don't know if anything helps, but I so want meditation and focus on the feelings TO BE HELPFUL now.   I wish I could have found some relief for myself.  Tell me please, have you tried to sit with it during the worst of it?  I know you've been practicing.  Do you think yoga and meditation and tapping can help?

I was always too freaked out or scattered to learn to meditate, and I didn't know about tapping.  I'm wondering if anger or depletion will open up space for you to discover the next level of practice.  I didn't find it helped until a new unfamiliar layer of duress I couldn't escape at all took place with oldest daughter and dealing with past 10 years under microscope, along with school application and interview....it was the face to face interview s that sent me over the actual edge after all the difficulty of a year with dd away.

It's weird how much we can stand, and one day something tips the scale, and too much becomes our wake up call that we can't sustain as we are.  The pain is too much, and we're finally forced to change, even though it seems it will add more stress, it's actually a path leading to a better head space.

I'm typing this with one finger so forgive the writing, but.....
If I could go back and help myself, I wish I could have..... I don't know.  What would I have said and done?  I would perhaps have explained sitting with the difficult feelings and focusing on them without fear or expectation. 

To tap on it, regularly, and with hope.  To stretch and move my limbs daily, even as it seemed like climbing Everest.

Care and compassion for self.  You are so worthy.  You're  a fountain of maternal spirit, warrior, and care giver.  How much energy that must take.  I'm awed by your commitment, and ability to cycle through the fight/work cycles.  Battling a system, that's supposed to HELP you....it's demoralizing, and expensive in ways we can't calculate, I ME.  Expensive to the soul.  For me there was a breaking down, and kind of recovery or submission....defeat process.  I never got to a point where feeling defeated didn't lead to energy and frenetic activity to find a way out of the seemingly impossible paper trail dependent, keep my cool and maybe I'd overcome the particular situation once again years.

At some point we've done the task and are familiar with it.  It's just not comforting bc it's so daunting and inflicted.  Truly, it feels like an affliction, and you're right.  It seems nothing helps us through feelings of being at the mercy of a large complicated system that seemingly works against us.....and particularly when it seems aimed at our kids.

The remedy is always allowing a certain emotional break down, unwillingness to allow that outcome, and then laser focused work to undo that wrong,/unfair/rigged outcome, IME.

There's never any forcing the flow.  Surrender to the defeat trusting energy will come again, as it has so many times for you.  I think mourning that you have to fight like this, yet again, is perfectly human.  You, more than anyone, understand what this will cost in all ways.

I'm sorry I can't be there to help you make phone calls and pull papers together, (((Tupp.)))

I'm sorry you have to mount your steed and weild your sword, yet again.  The thing that's been true, for me and sometimes by the skin of my teeth is that good people are out there too, fighting for the right thing, even though they don't have and it would be easier to not, IME.

It's hard to think creatively when under this kind of heart sickness, but IS there a new contact you could make?  Is there a supervisor or attorney or friend who could be contacted at this point who can help?  Maybe someone from another agency who can walk the paperwork through?  Someone you connected with? 

You're used to doing everything on your own, my dear.  Look around, when you can, and remember to breath.  You've gotten through worse, and you're one if the most capable people I know.  Ask for help when you can, if you can, Tupp. 

::Sending you serenity, strength and pause to think your way out of this with economy of motion::..

Light
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 12, 2017, 12:46:48 PM
Thanks, Lighter xx

Tapping I've not found helpful, but meditation, yoga, walking, a good cry, writing, an imaginary row with whoever has pissed me off where I can yell at them to my heart's content and swear as much as I like - they all help.  I think what I struggle with is that each experience (a) puts the old barriers up and (b) stops me from sleeping - which in turn means I find it much harder to adopt positive coping strategies and easier to turn to TV, sugar, coffee, alcohol etc.  Then I feel resentful that I have to use good practice to cope with someone else's shit - and I think that's the really big thing for me.  I've spent my life dealing with my mum's shit - directly and indirectly - because she never did.  I coped with the abuse on my own because no-one else did anything to stop him or help me.  I've raised my son on my own and almost every interaction with have with the system is the same - people just not doing the job they are paid to do - in effect, they are not dealing with their own shit so I have to sort out everyone else's mess again.  It does seem to be a huge, recurrent theme in my life that I am constantly clearing up after people.  And I resent that now.  I really want to be focusing on my own life and just being happier within it, rather than having to keep coping with one mess after another.

I have sort of paused to slow down today.  I ate cake and didn't give myself a hard time.  I had a nap.  I feel better than I did this morning but I think what bothers me is that I just feel resigned to it.  I will just get on and do everyone else's job, again, and then it will be done properly, until the next time I have to let these people in and they fuck it all up again (and once he's in the system again, we're back in the situation we were in when he was little.  It doesn't fill me with confidence that they will keep him safe from my mum and look out for him, because they just keep proving they can't do their jobs properly.  So again I feel that I will have to keep him safe, but with all these people around him now who can leave the gate open, in a metaphorical sense).  It's hard because I don't want to keep controlling the situation and being in the centre of it, truly I don't, but when we get sent a legal document that hasn't been constructed in accordance with the relevant legislation and therefore won't stand up to legal scrutiny (which means there's nothing in it I can enforce which essentially means he won't get any support) and blah, how do I give up control when no-one else is willing to step in to the gap?  Argh!

I think the other problem is that I feel I am juggling so many balls - the practical demands of caring for him, coping with the boredom, the loneliness, the isolation, my bone deep exhaustion that is just so entrenched now, the endless scrimping and scraping of money, being single, being without family, not being near a good group of friends, the umpteen things that have happened in the past, the van I still haven't sold, that flat that still doesn't have curtains or carpet, my over grown garden - etc etc - and when something like this happens I drop all the balls and everything comes crashing down around me.  I just sat on the sofa this morning and cried.  I've just no energy to pick myself up any more.

I have had advice over the weekend and have emailed the local authority accordingly.  Once I hear back from them I have numbers I can call for legal advice, and then we'll know how to move forward.  But it all means he's unlikely to be going in January and at the moment it looks like they'll have to do the entire process all over again, because they just haven't done it properly.  It doesn't appear to be salvageable.  We shall see.   But I am functioning as a shell now, robot mode, doing it because there's no other option and doing it to get him into a college that essentially puts him back into the line of fire where my mum's concerned.  And that makes me wonder, should we be living here?  Is that why nothing goes right, should we have moved far away, should I fight to get him into this one?  Or should I be looking at moving to get him in somewhere where she won't find him?  And all that starts going through my mind again and then I'm back in flight or fight mode and I don't have the energy for either any more.

Thank you for the input, Lighter, I do appreciate it and I will keep re-reading as there is a lot in there, thank you xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on November 12, 2017, 05:52:31 PM
Oh, Tupp.
I'm so very very sorry you're back in the ocean again.
I so understand the exhaustion.

I'm glad you're getting a new source of advice.

It sounds like a certainty that the system will never do it perfectly.
Maybe the challenge is to define what exactly would mean that their reports etc. have gotten to "good enough."

Despite her ogreness, I wonder if your mother actually has any continuing power to intervene? Clarifying that legally would be wonderful.

So much support coming at you from so many directions, some unseen, some mysterious as sleep.

love to you,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 13, 2017, 03:47:44 AM
Oh, Tupp.
I'm so very very sorry you're back in the ocean again.
I so understand the exhaustion.

I'm glad you're getting a new source of advice.

It sounds like a certainty that the system will never do it perfectly.
Maybe the challenge is to define what exactly would mean that their reports etc. have gotten to "good enough."

Despite her ogreness, I wonder if your mother actually has any continuing power to intervene? Clarifying that legally would be wonderful.

So much support coming at you from so many directions, some unseen, some mysterious as sleep.

love to you,
Hops

Thanks Hops xx

The reports have to be written in accordance with a particular legislative framework that is all connected with Special Educational Needs.  The Code of Practice is five hundred and eighty something pages.  Everything is supposed to be precise, specific, quantifiable, measurable, etc etc, and all written with the best interests of the child and the involvement of the child and family, etc etc.  If it isn't written to that standard it isn't legally enforceable.  What they've sent us doesn't follow a single item in the way that it needs to to be legally binding or even mention two thirds of his healthcare needs.  In it's current state it won't even get him a place in the college.  If I can re-write it and get them to agree then we might be able to get into the college, but not in time for him to start in January.  If they don't agree then we have to go to court to get a judge to agree and then tell them they have to agree.  Which will mean he probably won't go for another year.  I don't need it to be perfect, just written in accordance with the law so that it's actually useable.xx

My mum will have power to intervene all the time she is breathing.  She can call any professional, any time, and make an allegation about me.  She doesn't have to leave her name or provide any proof - Tup abuses her son - is all she needs to say.  They have to investigate, by law.  If they follow the law it won't be a problem.  If they don't - and for us in the majority of cases, and as is happening now, they often don't - then the whole thing blows wide open again.  My sister has just been investigated for benefit fraud for the third time in as many years.  You can guess where their 'information' is coming from.

So yes.  I feel like I slay one dragon only for two more to appear.  When other people don't play by the rules, how do you join in the game?

I'm sorry to be negative but I am just so sick of other people doing this.  If I didn't bother and never produced paperwork or filled in forms or anything like that then I could understand it's down to me but I bend over backwards to do as much as is humanly possible to give them as much information as they might possibly need and constantly say "let me know if you need anything else".  There's really no excuse.  Thank you for your thoughts and support, I do appreciate it (even though I am aware I don't sound very appreciative of anything at the minute, but I am) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 13, 2017, 07:14:55 AM
Okay, so a slightly more positive update :)

I have spoken to the lady at the local authority.  She has been very nice and helpful.  The plan isn't useful in it's present state but they are open to re-writing it and happy to work with me so that is good.  They are also looking at specialist provision (you have to prove that the student won't cope in a mainstream environment and needs a specialist setting) so that is also a good sign and one less fight to have.

The less good news is that the college we want don't want him.  They haven't given specific reasons other than saying they don't think he'll fit in.  My immediate reaction was very mum like and I thought "how dare they??!!"  The other problem is they are full and the lady at the local authority said that they have so many kids who need placements at the moment that they are actually going to have to build another classroom and hire more staff so it's quite a big deal and not just a case of bunging an extra chair in the room.

A possibility to explore is where they pay for a budget of support at home.  It would be similar to what we do now but they would fund it and provide speech therapy, occupational therapy, tutors and so on, rather than me having to do everything myself.  It still means I would need to be physically present for a lot of it as it isn't intended as a care service, but it would take a lot of the pressure off me and mean my son has more adults in his life so it might work well.  It's definitely something to look into and I would prefer a workable solution to be in place asap rather than fighting for a college place that doesn't actually exist.  The other bonus of 'at home' provision is that my mum can keep her sticky beak out.  So at least it seems we have another option and the local authority do seem keen to work with me, despite that report being so badly done. 

On a personal level, I feel much better now that I've spoken to her and I know there are some more positive possibilities.  It will still be a long process and I doubt anything will be in place by January but at least we all seem to be trying to get to the same destination.  It did make me see that there is a lot of pressure and negativity in my life and everything's balanced a bit like Jenga blocks, so it all collapses if one bit's pulled out.  Perhaps having some good experiences now will change that a bit (here's hoping).  But feeling calmer and more positive now so wanted to update after all my negative posts over the weekend :)  Thank you all for listening and being there, you are all fabulous :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on November 13, 2017, 08:31:03 AM
I completely understand.

I'm really glad you've again connected with a nice, supportive human. Seems to make all the difference when you're staring at the monolith of "the system." That's been my hope, that the individual people whose jobs are to help...will (with your help) help you.

I hope all of these new possibilities give you hope, Tupp. You always and still deserve hope.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on November 13, 2017, 09:41:24 AM
Tupp:. IME your mom and sf are cowardly sorts of people working in the dark, anonymously, where they aren't challenged or exposed.

You've stood up to them, and told everyone what they've done.  You've documented and sent the message you're willing to fight again.  It's all you could do, and so there's peace around that, I hope.

It's just too hard for you to live in fear of what PDs will do next.  It robs us of our lives if we don't find ways to stop it, IME.  I say this even though I know and believe your mom will always be toxic and dangerous.  I believe she'd harm you if she could get away with it.  I'm not sure she feels she's getting away with what she did after you stood up to her, and documented what she did to you.   I do know there's a chance she's unwilling to risk more exposure.  There's a chance she won't reach out to a grandson who's older, and less vulnerable.

Maybe she can't find s way to harm you again.  Maybe the packages and gossip are all she has now.  Maybe she won't risk anything more?  Sit with that question.  Does it feel true?
How many years have passed since she's done more?

My gut says moving farther away would be good for your spirit and physical sense of safety.  If you feel that move is worth the effort and expense....maybe it's time to begin researching options.  You could continue seeking the in home services but also exploring options with a move far away, but only if you feel it's worth the effort.

Sometimes cutting bait and beginning fresh is the right thing to do IME.  I hoped you'd find distance enough with this last move.  I t seems it's not enough, IMO.

I trust that you'll know what to do.  That you're talking about moving is important, IMO.  It may be exactly what you need to feel safe.

(((Tupp)))
You don't have to know the right thing today.  Opening to possibility is enough.  Getting help and honesty must have been a huge relief.  Remember self care, even when you're spiraling.  It's something to hang on to, and accepting stillness....vegging out on the sofa etc as what you need to do is part of self care.  Take what you need without judgement. 


Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on November 13, 2017, 10:40:48 AM
Tupp,
I heard you say that falling  into fight or flight mode, you recognize that you do not have the energy for either. I believe you.

I wouldn't either. Moving is a massive, massive add-on stress. Shrinks list it as second only to a loved one's death. And you have no money and a broken van. One can only up and move when one can afford to.

With much respect to ((((Lighter)))), I don't think moving now -- flight -- makes sense. You have carved out a sweet and promising space near a village you like.

My hope is that all-out fight will not be needed either.

I sense that every misstep of the bureaucracy (such as a sloppy inadequate initial report) sends you emotionally plunging back into the earlier experience of defending yourself. But this is not those past events, even though it echoes.

I actually think you've made great progress, even with your dealings with the humans within the system. I also think your mother is triggering in a big way, but at the same time, she is defanged.

I think once this triggered panic passes, you'll be better able to assess how you are, how he is, how the bureaucrats are (at least some, like the good woman you just discovered is an ally and intends to help), how your T is, how one day at a time is.

That's what I'd counsel in the midst of a wave of distress and meltdown. Not major changes. But definitely, at least one visit to the good T, to get support and steadiness. Can you arrange that?

I might be right or wrong but wanted to throw these thoughts your way, fwiw.

Hugs,
Hops

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 14, 2017, 05:44:10 AM
Thank you both very much :)

My thinking at the moment is this:  I am starting to see this as a kind of PTSD experience.  I don't know if that is too dramatic a term to use and I don't for one minute want to compare what I've been through to the horrors of a war, but it seems to me to bag up the various things I go through so I will use it for the time being.

The public sector workers not following the law is a trigger.  I get that.  I also get that I have no option but to deal with these lawless and unethical people.  Yes, the lady I spoke to on the phone was nice and yes, I feel that they are willing to work with me to sort something out.  That's good.  But they have also done a very bad job which will now cause delays and now means I have a lot of work to do, in a short space of time.  On the back of coming out of what I will refer to as a PTSD episode, for want of a better expression.  Whilst providing 24 hour care for my disabled son.  Who has spent the last four days in front of either the telly or the computer because I've been collapsed in a heap after another public sector interaction.  There's nothing good about that situation and I've kind of got to the point now where going for the pollyanna, let's look for the good in this situation is making me feel like all that does is enable unethical and dishonest people to do unethical and dishonest things.  Yes I want to recognise the good and appreciate it for what it is.  But it is massively outweighed by the bad and that is the truth of the situation, the reality of what we are living with.

Following on from the trigger topic, yes, I get that they are triggers and I cope with them as best I can.  But that pit that opens up is so huge and takes so much energy to get back out of that I am not exaggerating when I say I can feel myself dieing inside.  Every time it happens another bit of me dies and I don't feel like it's coming back.  My 'normal' seems to slipping further and further into a sort of grim determination to hold on and endure it again, rather than a life that can be enjoyable for more that a brief moment or two.

Mum and SF - Lighter, I don't think they feel exposed, because their reality is different to mine.  As far as they are concerned, they are good parents who've been treated badly by their kids.  They are the victims in this.  They have always done what was for the best and this is how they are repaid.  It's not their fault they have a mentally ill daughter who abused her son and made him disabled.  It's a terrible world we live in when a kind and caring grandparent is castigated for trying to protect her grandson from his mother.  The fact that I seduced her husband when I was fifteen is evidence of my mental instability and all they've ever tried to do is help me and to save me from myself.  They tried to get the authorities to intervene but they wouldn't do anything.  Etc, etc.  They don't feel bad about me telling anyone about anything they did because they don't believe it to be true.  They see anything I say as the ramblings of a mad woman and they're astonished that I have managed to convince other people they're lieing.  My mum sees her 'interventions' as good things; she's trying to protect us from ourselves.  The same with the parcels and the instructions that she'll be sending money and so on.  In her eyes this is good.  So no, I don't think she will ever stop.  And when I'm in a good place I can cope with the packages or seeing her in the village or getting home to find him parked at the end of my road.  But when I feel like I do today - honestly, a parcel from her is enough to make me want to end it all.  There are just too many things to cope with, on top of just looking after my boy all day, every day, by myself.

So - moving.  Hops, don't worry, I don't have the time, money or energy to do it at the moment (although if I win the lottery at the weekend my first spend will be a fancy hotel somewhere delicious while I wait for an agent to find me a big house and get my stuff packed up and sent there :) ).  My son has medical issues that are still up in the air waiting for assessments and we need this educational package sorting and putting in place so no, I won't be going anywhere just yet.  But in the future - well, I don't feel like I have any hope anymore.  I have worked so hard and tried so many different things.  I honestly feel I have left no stone unturned.  But the situation is that my son will always need care and it's very hard to get anyone else to provide it.  Mum and SF are a potential problem all the time they are still breathing (and probably from beyond the grave; I would lay money she'll try to leave something to my son and leave instructions with a solicitor to hunt him down).  I will have to interact with the public sector for the rest of my life and keep going through these experiences.  I don't see any realistic way to change that.  I've tried everything, for many years, and the situation gets worse not better.  So.  If this is my lot in life I would at least like to be close to good friends and living somewhere where I enjoy the scenery and am far enough away to, hopefully, stop my mum getting my address, but at the very least not to get home and find them parked at the end of my road.

There was somewhere we lived when my son was small that was lovely.  By the sea, I made a good group of friends there, two of them are my best buddies and have stood by me through so much.  I still speak to them regularly and am in contact with them more than anyone else.  It's an outdoorsy, hippy type area, which is much more me than the commuter belt I live in now.  And it's three hundred miles away so if I'm careful about online information and don't keep in touch with anyone up here then there's a good chance she won't be able to find out where I am.  It won't be for a few years yet.  I'm thinking of it as taking early retirement.  I'm dreaming of a little job in a little cafe by the sea, chatting to the holiday makers and smiling at the kids making all those lovely memories.  Paddling in the ocean.  Moaning about the tourists blocking up the roads :)  Lol.  I just feel if this is my lot in life and what I have to deal with, I want it to be in easier surroundings with fewer triggers, if at all possible.

Anyway.  That is where I am today.  I am so very tired, and I have so much to do.  I'm going to stay offline for a few days to give my brain a rest.  Thank you all so much for your help and support, I really do appreciate it and I will catch up with you in a few days :)

Love Tup xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on November 14, 2017, 07:50:00 AM
Sometimes, the BEST thing to do is just to "stop" doing - rest - don't even think or try to work on anything internal/personal. Time will shift into a day or three in the future... the emotional storms will settle down IN THEIR OWN TIME... and only then, is it possible to look at the situation again and possibly chart a path through.

There IS documentation regarding something called "complex PTSD" which is (generally) more the result of long-term abuse rather than combat or catastrophic trauma. So making that comparison is correct. I ran across this concept sorting out my own mess and it was extremely helpful to me to think about my coping mechanisms and reactions in those terms... with regards to being more conscious of them, and in control and able to choose my responses. It even lead to finally being aware of how I'd internalized "that voice" with which I felt self-abused... and I still work at sorting all that out.

As a general observation about the monolithic bureaucracy you're dealing with:

The more complex the system - the more dehumanizing it is. Whether it's healthcare, benefits, social security in this country - or our medicare system. The "care" for people part is noticeably and painfully absent... as people are forced to focus on crossing t's and dotting i's on all the forms... in order to properly feed the correct data in the correct order into the persnickety database which spits out a "score" and a number in the pecking order for which you will receive your 5 minutes of attention. Having the forms filled out correctly is no guarantee they'll be entered into the system correctly - or that some other hardware/software glitch doesn't throw an error... which spits you out of the system.

Even the humans you interact with, who are part of that "system", are more like machines - sans emotions (and sometimes rationality and common sense) - and if you find one who is NOT, you should try to cultivate that relationship as a means of navigating the hurdles and a guide to eventually get the result you want.

So, dear... all that to say, that your reactions and needs for coping sound perfectly NORMAL to me in the face of all that. And that's before one even adds the zombie-parents into the mix.

It'll be OK; it'll be alright. Let time do it's thing... and take care of yourself, sweetie.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 15, 2017, 03:02:06 AM
Thanks Skep.  I know it's all understandable given the circs but I also know it's really unhealthy and it's just not something I can sustain any more.  But equally I feel there's nothing else I can do about it.  I've disassociated, I know that.  Not as extremely as I would have once upon a time but certainly enough that I am watching myself go through the motions and marveling at how well I can keep going whilst looking up websites on suicide and wondering how best to do it.  And I do feel now that's what it will come to eventually - not right now, but at some point in the future I think I'm going to break completely and I don't see anyway to avoid it, because I can't avoid this system.

For now, we are plodding on.  We went to the cinema yesterday, lovely film.  But I ended up moving seats on the train because my nerves are so shot at the minute I couldn't cope with my son's 'idiosyncracies' and I left him sat on his own.  I slept maybe two hours last night because for the last few nights I've had the same dream that someone is stabbing me in the eyes and it jolts me awake.  I'm seeing the osteopath this morning, we have a few errands to run in town, I've got paperwork to collect from the doctors' and I'm going to yoga tonight so hopefully that will help me sleep better tonight.  It might reset me enough to get me back into a decent routine again at home.  I've still not got the van up on the internet to sell and this mountain of paperwork for college is just glaring at me from the desk.  So lots to do.  I'll check in later xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on November 15, 2017, 07:23:33 AM
Tupp, this so sounds like a time when you need a circle of support,
folks fixing the tea, helping you sort the paper files. And one visit
to the good T.

I recognize and understand the bleak language and bleak vision...
that pit.

Please don't go there, please don't give up.

xo
Hops

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on November 15, 2017, 07:36:34 AM
Rest can mean other things than sleep, when sleep is a problem. What works for me, is to "insert something else into brain"... it can be reading an interesting study and then pondering it, it can be some old familiar movie or story, trying something completely new -- anything to hold my monkey mind's attention for a length of time. Time required, varies.

Doing the things that interfere with monkey mind help too - things that keep it from functioning - driving, is one of those things for me. Most of the things that have worked for me, aren't things I can do in the winter. But a good one is needlepoint or cross-stitch. Monkey mind gets focused on making the small stitches correctly... putting the right colors in the right places... smoothing out tangles in the yarn... etc. Do you knit? (I never quite got the hang of it.) I've heard a lot of people say knitting helps relax them - it's the same principle - and it's pretty portable too. Plus, you're making something useful! (Which is an important skill, IMO.)

The Twiggy timeframe, was the only time I truly felt so broken, unable to be understood what I was going though - by myself and other people - because I was forbidden to speak of it - that I ever contemplated harming myself to end the agony. That was a long time ago, because a combination of events and intervention of "the gods", gave me an undefined amount of time ALONE to fully grieve to depth of my toes what had happened to me. And that kind of unrelenting, to the core grieving... unlocks it's opposite energy.

People call it lots of different things - "the comfort that surpasses all understanding" being one. John Lennon's song "Let it Be"... pulls another version of it into consciousness. It's an unconditional love, healing, and "connection to the Force" kind of energy that is as soothing as a vanilla and lavender warm bath that washes over and through you... and finally brings peace, acceptance of the broken places, and a way to "give up"... that also allows you to continue to "go on keeping on".

I believe that there are very very very very very few people who have not experienced both the broken-ness and the comfort-energy to one degree or another. (And they're the sickos that broke us.)

It is absolutely amazing how much time is required - and JUST TIME and being open to the compassionate energy - to heal these kinds of wounds. There are occasionally things we can do to improve morale, psych ourselves up to keeping plodding on, or things to keep us "entertained" and "engaged" while passing that time. There is no point where anyone can say: "you should be over this by now"... not when it's been so long a time dealing with it, that it's a private part of who you are now. There's no timetable of when it's possible to truly let those bad experiences go, to forgive yourself your foibles that grew out of those experiences, and to start changing those old coping habits and being, at your core, "different". But hey - we all need something to work at while passing the time, right??      ;)

[Forgive please, the professorial "we" again... and shoot me, if I revert back to the Penn Dutch "you" form.]
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on November 18, 2017, 11:16:30 PM
((((Tupp)))),

Checking in on you. Think of you daily and sending calm and endurance.

How are you?

love,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 19, 2017, 02:22:44 AM
((((Tupp)))),

Checking in on you. Think of you daily and sending calm and endurance.

How are you?

love,
Hops

Thank you, Hops, I really do appreciate your kindness and your words, thank you, I just don't feel like I have anything to write, I am so wiped out with it all and I just don't know what to do any more xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on November 19, 2017, 03:04:12 PM
It's okay, Tupp.
No pressure to write or narrate when you're this drained.

I'm just worried about your hopeless feelings, and the fact that you mentioned dark searches about suicide. That's a real trough.

I know this is a weird online world, but I do truly care about you. I know others here do too.

Thank you for getting up the energy to reply.

Just when you feel the least able to, sometimes that's the most important time to drag yourself to a T appointment............ if there's any way I/anyone could help that happen?

love
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 19, 2017, 03:25:18 PM
It's okay, Tupp.
No pressure to write or narrate when you're this drained.

I'm just worried about your hopeless feelings, and the fact that you mentioned dark searches about suicide. That's a real trough.

I know this is a weird online world, but I do truly care about you. I know others here do too.

Thank you for getting up the energy to reply.

Just when you feel the least able to, sometimes that's the most important time to drag yourself to a T appointment............ if there's any way I/anyone could help that happen?

love
Hops

Thanks Hops, I care about all of you, too :)

I can't see the point of a T appointment, simply because I really feel this isn't about me, it's about being stuck in a system that fails to support my son or protect us from my mum.  For me, that's the real issue at the minute and the key problem (and what's caused this latest fall off the cliff), because we are once again dealing with a public sector agency that isn't doing what it is required to do.  And unfortunately that's the way it is here in the UK, the internet is awash with stories like mine (and some a lot worse).  And there is nothing I can do other than do all the paperwork myself and then send it back in and wait to see that they do next.  They've already told me that essentially there is no college place.  The college doesn't feel they can meet his needs, plus they are full.  So we will have to carry on at home and I just can't do it anymore.  I'm not willing to put him into care, and that frustrates me as well - it's such an extreme situation, either I do everything and provide 24/7 care by myself, or he goes into a care home.  There's no middle ground there, which drives me mad (and is designed that way, I believe, to make people battle on without help because the alternative is just wrong).

I have kept thinking about what you said about needing a circle of support around me and you are right, and the more I've thought about it the more I've realised I can't have that here, simply because it's too close to my mum.  I am constantly on my guard because I'm worried about what might get back to her and what she might do with it.  It's a small, cliquey sort of area, lots of villages around a couple of small towns and there's a lot of gossip and everyone knows everyone else and who they're related to.  So whatever I'm doing I'm aware it might get back to her and so I'm constantly careful about what I say to people and where I go, and I only really realised that this week.  I think I'm so used to doing it that I just hadn't paid attention.

I do genuinely feel that there is no hope, simply because I live in a country where disabled people have few rights and the sort of support my son needs simply isn't provided.  I have been trying to get him help for fourteen years now and I have failed.  When I got pregnant I had a good job, my own place, a car, a social life, and I thought it would be easy.  I thought I could teach for a while after he was born and then take him abroad and teach my way around the world, with him learning anywhere from a private International School to a little mud hut in the middle of a jungle.  I honestly thought I could do all of that and, if he hadn't been disabled, I think it would have been possible.  And so as time has gone on I've down graded my hopes and dreams and ambitions and kept thinking, "one day, one day" and I've worked so hard and tried so many times to make things happen and do something with our life.  And I've failed, every time, because I've just had this tide of people working against me and I've kept adjusting what I hoped for and scaling it back a bit more.  College wasn't the option I wanted for him but I'd told myself to think of it as a social club and I'd be getting six hours a day to myself so I could get my fitness back, spend some time doing things I enjoyed, maybe do a bit of paid work.  All of that is less than most people do without even thinking about it but it was as much as I hoped for and I'd got myself to a place where that would do.  And now even that isn't an option, because there's nowhere for him to go.  Now I'm having to think "well, at least he'll have a tutor for a couple of hours a week so I can use that time to clean the flat or cut the grass".  And that's pretty much it.  I've not had a day off in sixteen years or a decent night's sleep for twelve.  I haven't had a night out without him for eight years and even going out with him I only manage to get out two or three nights a year.  I spend an average of a couple of hours a week with good company, if I'm lucky.  And that really is pretty much it.  Most of the time I'm on my own and I just haven't got the energy any more to try to keep changing things with all of that on my shoulders.  So I do feel hopeless now, unfortunately, because I really can't see any other way to do this or any other way out.

I do appreciate all the advice and support and I'm not going to hurt myself, but I was really close and that scares me - next time I might go ahead?  I feel very bleak at the minute and really, without forty or so hours a week being provided by the state I just don't know what else I can do xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on November 19, 2017, 08:38:37 PM
((((((Tupp))))))))

Quote
I've not had a day off in sixteen years or a decent night's sleep for twelve.  I haven't had a night out without him for eight years and even going out with him I only manage to get out two or three nights a year.  I spend an average of a couple of hours a week with good company, if I'm lucky.  And that really is pretty much it.  Most of the time I'm on my own and I just haven't got the energy any more to try to keep changing things with all of that on my shoulders.  So I do feel hopeless now, unfortunately, because I really can't see any other way to do this or any other way out.
[/size]

SOMEBODY needs to see this and hear this. I know you're only sharing your rational, researching, responsible ordeal with the agencies, etc. But you've got to have people who can see that and hear that.

Even though my decade of caregiving wasn't as critical, and I did have breaks while I was at work, I understand some of this. Certainly the trapped feeling, which I imagine is worse for you.

That said, even though I understand that you have an accurate and searing view of the situation, I still believe you need to resist your despair. I also agree that the system is failing you and it's not your fault.

I think being alone with that much hopelessness is like being seriously ill. You need support and if it can't manifest in the social structures of the area, you CAN find it with the T. Or some deliberate group thing.

If you can't stagger another step, emotionally, is the biggest obstacle to going to your T or to some free support group such as AA or Al-Anon or Survivors Anonymous (or whatever exists in your area, even a church) -- is the biggest obstacle lack of a sitter for your son? A church might help with that.

Or is it possible you don't want to drag yourself to a group because being vulnerable and in that much need publicly, conflicts with the image the village culture expects and that you've always tried to maintain for others?

If it's the latter, hope you'll say screw it. I remember one time in the midst of a near-breakdown my panic attacks and chest pain took me to an Emergency Room (department) in Kentucky. They hooked me up with a hospital psychiatrist, who told me to attend a hospital-based group therapy. It cost about as much as a hamburger. I did, and got so much strength from that experience that I was able to go forward. I was sitting with people who had endured as much pain as I had and worse (one had multiple scars on his arms from failed attempts) -- and the compassion, insight and understanding I got in that first group support experience changed my life.

It just made me able to go on. And believe that my pain was seen and cared about. By real people, in 3D.

I so hope this for you, Tupp.

love,
Hops

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 20, 2017, 06:05:24 AM
Thank you Hops, it means a lot xx

I have been thinking a lot over the last few days and the problem is I want action, not more talking or platitudes or more strategies for coping.  I want to feel like I'm living my life instead of enduring it, because in all honesty I think I am in a partially numb state an awful lot of the time, just to cope.

I've taken stock and it's not a pretty picture.  I'm 44 and and I have no savings (beyond a couple of hundred pounds for emergencies), a tiny pension that will pay for a cup of coffee once a week and not much else.  I've no capital and, whilst I'm not a materialistic person and I'm not bothered about not having 'stuff', constant scrimping and scraping and getting by is hard and it does wear you down.  My health is failing, physically and emotionally, because I just have too much to cope with and the help my son needs just isn't out there.

My son will need 24 hour care for the rest of his life and, at the moment, once I'm gone, there will be no-one to do that for him or to fight for someone else to do that for him.  I don't even want to think about what that might mean.

So - practically, there is little I can do.  I have done everything I can think of over the years, I've turned over every stone, I've tried every avenue and we have just got nowhere with it all.  If there's no more I can do, then I think best to focus on having fun and being around good people, and then at least the endless crap won't be echoed by the loneliness and isolation and the sheer lack of having anyone to meet up with or go for a walk with.  That means moving, back to the lovely place we lived when my son was small.  We left because of the lack of support, only to discover years later the lack of support was caused by the fake info my mum was giving the professionals down there.  If I'd known at the time I could have done something about it, but I had no idea and so I stepped off the cliff thinking it would be better somewhere else.  She got to me there as well.  The damage she's done is incalculable.  I still have friends living in that place who have kept in touch all these years and supported me through the horrors we've been through.  At the very least, if I'm near them I've got someone to go for a coffee with every now and again.

I've put together a plan and that has made me feel better.  I've drawn up a huge list of everything that realistically needs to be done before we can think about moving and estimated how long each job will take, and then worked out which days things can be done.  I've scheduled in rest days and long weekends so I don't wear myself out.  We've got financial changes coming up next year due to my son's status changing from child to adult.  If they go smoothly we can afford to move next year.  If they don't then it will be a year or two after that.  I feel better for taking control of the situation and doing something about it, instead of just sitting waiting for the next kick in the teeth, which is what I feel like I'm doing most of the time.  I've got more done this morning than I have in the last two weeks.

I feel relieved to have an option where my mum won't be living up the road.  I'm hoping she won't find out where we've gone.  I won't be keeping in touch with anyone round here and will be telling people we're moving abroad - it's something I've talked about and tried to do for years so it won't seem odd that it finally happens.  I just want the chance to live without constantly looking over my shoulder and to at least have some friends nearby who I know are there for me in tough times, unlike the 'friends' I had round here who all vanished when my son got ill.

Anyway, that's where I'm at at the moment and I will update as things move along :)  Thank you for all the support, I really do appreciate it :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on November 20, 2017, 11:21:17 AM
Tupp:

A plan brings energy.  This plan is based on the knowledge things will get better if you excise certain people from your life with conviction and distance.

 I'm excited for you, and looking forward to reading about your creative solutions to problems you've already solved in the past.  You will overcome them again, and then it will be done. 

No more looking back. 

No more looking over your shoulder.  No more sabotage from the shadows. 

There will be succor, and healing in the sun where good friends can support and steady you through the normal struggles everyone has.

This too shall pass.

(((Amazing, soon to be free Tupp)))

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on November 20, 2017, 12:09:46 PM
Well then moving must be right!
I'm glad it's an option, and agree with Lighter than a plan brings hope.

Yay.

xo
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 27, 2017, 04:50:27 AM
I'm plodding along with what needs to be done.  Winter is setting in so the weather is a daily factor to manage now.  I am struggling to find joy in anything at all.  I feel very flat.  I have completely forgotten my pin number for my cash card; I use it at least once a week and have had the same number on it for about fifteen years.  I went to use it on Saturday and got it wrong twice and now for the life of me cannot remember what it is.  I am concerned with the effect that stress is having on my brain.  I find it hard to read these days and very difficult to concentrate on a decent film.  I love nordic noir; there is something about subtitles that I find very soothing, for some reason.   But I tried to watch some over the weekend and I couldn't concentrate on the words and kept losing the thread.  I do feel very frazzled; I feel like my brain needs some of that deep conditioning hot oil that you use on frizzy hair when you've spent all summer at the beach?  I'm not sure what the neurological equivalent is.  Lol.

I wrote up all the paperwork for what will now be an at home tuition programme, it seems.  I've spent about twenty hours on it now.  I caught up on some other bits of paperwork.  We're helping out with cleaning the youth club today and I've got a couple of birthday and Christmas presents to get on with.  I'm not keen on Christmas but I do like getting really nice gifts for a couple of friends who have birthdays in December as they often get overlooked because of the Christmas rush.  There is still no word from the hospital and it has been weeks now since they promised they would sort everything out so I feel that I can only make another formal complaint now.

I feel worn out by other people's sleaze and lack of ethics.  I'm not moralistic or prudish but I do believe very strongly in truthfulness, transparency and equality.  The hospital situation has been going on since May; I have tried numerous ways to resolve the situation informally and been polite and patient.  The end result is they do nothing.  The same thing happened with the previous hospital and the one before that.  The 'we want to see you over Christmas' requests are starting to come in, from people who make no effort to see him the rest of the year.  I've explained again and again that Christmas is hard for him, he gets tired and stressed from all the extra sensory stuff, that we would love to see them in any one of the 11 other months of the year but it falls on deaf ears and I feel like I'm trapped on a merry go round where I just keep saying the same things over and over and no-one listens.  The van is up for sale on an auction site and people are messaging me trying to get me to agree a (very low) price and take it down early.  Someone else wants the van but can't pay for it straight away and wants to know if I'll keep it for them.  I kind of feel like interacting with the world brings me into contact with all sorts of people I don't want to deal with but staying at home makes me lonely and I don't like that either.  Is there a secret place where all the nice people live?  Lol.  I think I might go and stay with them xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 27, 2017, 02:18:33 PM
The cleaning at youth club session was good.  It made me realise that I need to keep my mind busy whilst keeping my body still sometimes.  If I rest physically my stress related health problems ease off but I fall off a cliff mentally.  If I keep busy it keeps my mind in a good place but I get so tired I end up not being able to move.  So I need to work at finding that balance between the two states.

Have also discovered a leisure centre that, although further away than our local one, is easier to get to by public transport, and they run a number of special needs sports clubs during the day, as well as a kids' fun session one evening a week, so we've got some new activities to try out which will be good.  It also means we'll be able to go swimming again, which we haven't been able to do since I stopped driving.  Another good point.  A lot of people are watching the van on the auction site so fingers crossed she will go on Thursday.  I'm meeting a friend in town tomorrow evening to see the Christmas lights with the kids and we've been invited to watch a Roller Derby on Saturday - had never even heard of that before but it sounds like fun so I'm looking forward to that.  Still feel like I've been run over but I do at least feel like I am moving forward a little bit again, which is good :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on November 27, 2017, 07:25:48 PM
You awe me, (((Tupp))).

I am so glad you found a way to encourage your body and spirit to be alive again.
You can't do this perfectly (who can?) but I am so impressed by your perennial determination to try.

You
are
succeeding.

Even those days it doesn't feel like it, from here across the ocean I can SO see how far you've come.

I love the insight of the balancing mind-distraction-fatique plus active-body fatigue. You've spotted this, and you're paying attention.

Kudos kudos!

And a big hug--with visions of more days like this for you.

love
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 29, 2017, 01:53:16 AM
You awe me, (((Tupp))).

I am so glad you found a way to encourage your body and spirit to be alive again.
You can't do this perfectly (who can?) but I am so impressed by your perennial determination to try.

You
are
succeeding.

Even those days it doesn't feel like it, from here across the ocean I can SO see how far you've come.

I love the insight of the balancing mind-distraction-fatique plus active-body fatigue. You've spotted this, and you're paying attention.

Kudos kudos!

And a big hug--with visions of more days like this for you.

love
Hops

Thanks, Hops xx

I am trying and struggling at the same time.  A friend got in touch yesterday wanting to come over so I invited them to join us in town.  I really struggle sometimes with the way other parents let their kids behave?  It's a difficult one, because my son never did 'normal' stuff and didn't really have any level of understanding of language for a very long time so it's kind of hard for me to understand why things go on the way they do sometimes, but I found it quite stressful and I was really impressed with my son and the way he handled things (a couple of years ago he'd have had a meltdown so it shows how much he's come on in recent years).  Yet I'd rather neither of us had to cope with it?  Particularly at the moment as I feel so wiped out.  The end result is we'll be going back to town on our own to have the nice time we'd originally planned :)

I've got yoga tonight which I always look forward to.  We're going out with a friend tomorrow morning which should be nice.  The rest of the week is clear so hopefully I'll get some more decorating done.  Slowly starting to feel human again.  Thank you for all of the support, I really do appreciate it xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on November 29, 2017, 10:31:46 AM
Hi Tupp:

I wonder how your thyroid is functioning.  It can't be perfectly after all the stress you've been through. 

I'm trying to address mine now, and will post on another thread about it.  Our energy, and ability to sustain a healthy weight is tied into our endocrine pathways, which are effected by inflammation, and so here I go again.  Another leg of the journey.

About visiting with others.  Sometimes I yearn for more company, and then find myself regretting it too.  I don't know how much is ME and how much is my not seeking out more compatible situations and people.  Oh well, right now I'm focused on internal, and feeling better.  I'll worry about external and others later on.

I hope your van sells for a fair price.  It's exciting and sad at the same time, though I do feel you'll benefit in the long run giving up that expense.  Did your friend give away the car you were offered?  Did you think about it anymore?  It's nice to be able to GO, but it's also nice to not have to worry about all vehicles require. 

Paying attention to your internal world, and what helps you stay centered, vs what sends you off the rails is a good thing.  Cultivating strength and resilience is something we can do, and it's amazing to watch you navigate that path.

How was yoga class?

Lighter


Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on November 30, 2017, 02:22:12 PM
Hi Tupp:

I wonder how your thyroid is functioning.  It can't be perfectly after all the stress you've been through. 

I'm trying to address mine now, and will post on another thread about it.  Our energy, and ability to sustain a healthy weight is tied into our endocrine pathways, which are effected by inflammation, and so here I go again.  Another leg of the journey.

About visiting with others.  Sometimes I yearn for more company, and then find myself regretting it too.  I don't know how much is ME and how much is my not seeking out more compatible situations and people.  Oh well, right now I'm focused on internal, and feeling better.  I'll worry about external and others later on.

I hope your van sells for a fair price.  It's exciting and sad at the same time, though I do feel you'll benefit in the long run giving up that expense.  Did your friend give away the car you were offered?  Did you think about it anymore?  It's nice to be able to GO, but it's also nice to not have to worry about all vehicles require. 

Paying attention to your internal world, and what helps you stay centered, vs what sends you off the rails is a good thing.  Cultivating strength and resilience is something we can do, and it's amazing to watch you navigate that path.

How was yoga class?

Lighter

Lighter, I don't think anything of mine is functioning well anymore!  Lol :)  I do think years of stress, lack of sleep, money worries and do you know what, endlessly having my heart broken, has taken a toll.  And I was thinking about it today, there have been so many people who have really let me down.  Family, obviously, but also a lot of friends who vanished when things got tough, and endless doctors, social workers and so on.  And I think that's probably done the most damage.  Anyhoo ....................................

Yoga was lovely, thank you :)  It's a nice group, quite small, the teacher does it from a health enhancing and relaxing the mind point of view rather than a competetive, who can bend themselves in half the fastest viewpoint.  I like that.  We were doing an exercise lying face down on our mats and someone farted really loudly :)  Everyone was terribly British and said nothing :)  I was laughing quietly to myself (and also feeling relieved that it wasn't me :) ).

The van hasn't sold, I just checked the auction site and no bids so I'm not sure what will happen now.  Will have a think over the weekend.  I didn't take the car my friend offered; I am finding life much easier without a vehicle.  We're naturally walking a lot more to get from A to B so we've both toned up and got fitter, I've got more money in my pocket and to be honest my eyesight is so bad at night now that driving in the dark really isn't a good idea.  I'm enjoying being able to let someone else do the work and take the train or bus.  It's pushed us towards some new places as well, as I've had to find things to do that are easy to get to by public transport so we've been doing some new things.  I do prefer it.

I wonder if you all could give me some input on the line between helping and enabling?  Or between being understanding or a pushover?  You know I struggle with my co-dependency stuff so I'm having a bit of a hard time knowing what to do at the minute.

A friend is homeless again.  He's been in temporary accommodation for a year, knowing it was temporary all the while, but in all that time hasn't sorted out somewhere else to live.  He works and earns pretty reasonable money, and can get references from people he works for so I really don't understand why finding somewhere seems to elude him like this.  Prior to this episode he was homeless for eight months, again after knowing for about a year and a half that he'd have to leave the place he was in at the time.  He sofa surfs, but also has a young child who he has two or three days a week and now has nowhere to take, which means he's been over to mine a couple of times.

I gave him the numbers of a couple of people I know who rent places out about ten days ago and he still hasn't called them.  He said he forgot.  How do you forget you have nowhere to live?  He came round earlier in the week and played a recording he's done.  He proudly told me he'd locked himself away for three days and barely slept in order to get this track recorded.  Apart from the fact it's awful, what is he doing?  I was so shocked when he played it to me that I couldn't really say anything - why would someone who has nowhere to live spend three days recording a song he'd written?  I just don't get his situation.  If he didn't work I could understand the lack of a home, and places are hideously expensive but he could just rent a room for the time being, or even check into a cheap hotel.

He called tonight asking to stay and I said no.  I lied and told him I had friends coming to stay (they are coming but not for a few more nights).  I feel guilty saying no and I don't like the thought of anyone sleeping out in this weather, it's bitterly cold at the minute and they've forecast snow.  But equally I feel like maybe the reason he keeps doing this is because he has such accommodating friends who keep bailing him out.  And do you know what, I'm tired and I really just want a quiet night in.  I feel tired of having people around me who drain me so much.

What do you think?  Am I being too mean, or overthinking it all?  Or would you be saying no as well?  I appreciate your thoughts, as always xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on November 30, 2017, 06:45:15 PM
I am sososososososooooooooo happy you said NO.

It is not your job to fix this man's irresponsibility and irrationality.
He's making tragically stupid decisions (oh yeah, working on my obscure music tape is a real plan...) like so many lost men who believe TV is real...

And it is SO not your job to fix him, take him in, or add him to your list of burdens.

No No No No No.

It's wonderful, beautiful and life-enhancing that you said NO.

Doesn't make him evil, a villain, or without redeeming charms.
Just makes him an albatross or millstone of a friend when you need new friends who lift you UP.

My two cents.

love
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on November 30, 2017, 06:53:56 PM
Right now, dear - appreciate your wishing you could help and the fact that you know you just can't. It really wouldn't be fair to yourself at the moment. And it wouldn't ultimately help your friend either.

As for identifying the milestones and warning signs on the continuum of any two extremes... I'm trying to figure that one out myself too. My trip for Thanksgiving meant that I was left with a lot of other people's voices/thoughts and visual images from a "foreign planet" that left me disoriented and exhausted - in all ways. I'm only now getting my own head back. Only been able to process the visceral sights & sounds & environments of that trip. And when we got back I had the joy of having to create a safe space (emotionally) for Holly to empty her head - for 12 hours.

I was way past my limit for endurance. It'll be a few more days yet before I get myself "right" again.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 01, 2017, 01:28:39 AM
Hops, Skep, thank you so much.  I think I just needed other people to confirm this was okay.  The last time he was homeless (and staying over) went on for eight months.  If he genuinely had no other options I think I'd feel differently but I really can't see why he hasn't rented a room or gone into lodgings, at least on a temporary basis.  If he was asking to use the phone or internet to search, or going through great long lists of everything he'd tried then I think it would be different but he seems to be making less effort than other people are on his behalf.  Thank you :)

Skep, that Thanksgiving sounds very tiring.  Was it all negative that poured out of other people or is it being around a large group of people that makes you so tired (I find a lot of people - even if nice and on my wavelength - tiring to be around).  And I'm sorry to hear there was a mammoth offloading session when you got home.  That is very draining.  I hope you get some peace and quiet now to recalibrate xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on December 01, 2017, 12:45:41 PM
Thanks, Tupp - it was the people all by themselves, being themselves that was tiring. Coming from the opposite ends of the political spectrum I was terribly self conscious about what and how I said things... looking for more pleasant topics that weren't so charged. But interestingly enough, it was possible to find common ground on certain things - and I am constantly motivated to demonstrate by example, that there IS agreement, even on the opposite ends of the spectrum.

I just need a lot more quiet time than many people do and I flounder a lot when there are a lot of people talking - because I pull back to wallflower status, on purpose to "defend my space" a bit; and I do not enjoy the one-upsmanship bantering style of conversation that is the supposed "party frame of mind". Mindless chit-chat and witticisms and personal or insider tweaking of each other -- based on longer acquaintance/family relationships... reinforces my perception of being an "outsider". And then I get even quieter.

I did attach myself to another "single" - one of Holly's friends who spent some time with us at the beach. He's a painter and a pretty amazing person, all 'round. Much younger of course, but it helped me relax feeling "attached" to that strong male presence. No matter how tenuously. He was actually the one who pointed out how quiet I was.

My perceptions and brain simply can't keep track of - much less participate in - everything that goes on with a dozen people who are all talking/doing at the same time. So I withdraw and observe instead.

It's not "anti-social", at all. It's just too much for me to deal with in that kind of free-for-all. And I'm much too sensitive to try playing in that environment. So I just don't enjoy it. No one was mean or rude or anything like that. That's just too different for some people to understand - like Holly. She shines in that kind of scene and thinks I "have a problem" that needs fixing... LOL.

Nope! I like me just the way I am, thank ya very much.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on December 02, 2017, 08:05:15 AM
Tupp:

I'm glad you didn't take your homeless friend on.  I try to qualify helping as something that helps someone.  Enabling helps them remain mired, IMO. 

Your friend is repeating a pattern, and won't change until he has to?  It would be different if you had an extra room to rent.  If he was great company, and overtly helpful.  The extended couch surfing dynamic is troubling, and he'll benefit once he figures that piece out, IMO.

You're a good person, and sometimes helping others feels wrong when we can't say YES to what they want.  Sometimes we help by saying NO, IME.
Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 07, 2017, 07:03:13 AM
Hi all,

Have had a productive few days.  Have done a lot of thinking, soul searching, cupboard clearing and general "where am i, what am I doing?" thinking.

Skep, your post about being around people (in general) could have been written about me!  I'm fine in a non-talking situation - busy sports event, club (not that I've been to one for a long time) or just generally anywhere I don't have to interact if I don't want to.  But with a group of people where conversation is required (and it's noticed if you don't) I just can't be arsed :)  I think partly because I get tired of listening to other people's points of view if they aren't well thought out and based on some sort of firm evidence.  I enjoy being around people I can learn from, in one way or another, but for me that is generally in a one to one or maybe just another couple of people.  I rarely find that happens in a group.  So yes, group things I am usually in the kitchen cleaning up and making tea, or I take the kids (or dog!) for a walk.  I prefer that.  Totally understand why you find it so tiring :)

Lighter, yes, I'm glad I didn't take him on!  He has now rented another temporary place but yep, he really needs to sort himself out.  He has a young child and the situation he's in won't do anyone any good long term.  I am keeping out of the way.

I've been doing a lot of thinking and a few things came up, which I wanted to get down here as it seems to help.  In no particular order:

I noticed I get defensive when I need/want to say no to someone, or if I have a query about how something is being done.  The homeless friend is one example; I found myself thinking very negative things about him but really, I can just say no and that's that.  I don't need to demonise him but I think I feel bad saying no and try and justify it by making them bad.  I had the same thing when someone else asked for a favour that I wanted to say no to (I did say no but again I felt bad and found myself criticsing them in my mind).  And another friend has asked me to do a favour for them which I was happy to do but the way she's organised things seemed a bit inefficient to me (I won't go into all the details but the timings were out and we would have had quite long periods of waiting around for other things to be done, whereas if we start later we can just get on with it).  I found myself being critical and snippy - again, all in my head, but I think it's because I feel bad saying "that way won't work, we need to do it like this".  So that is something I need to keep in mind and work on.

In practical terms, I am slowly plodding through my to do lists - one is for paperwork, one is for decorating jobs around the flat.  I am trying to make myself take a break every two hours and have an hour for lunch, and then downing tools in the evening and just having a bath and watching some TV.  I do find it hard and keep falling off track but I am getting there.  I feel guilty for taking a break, which I know is ridiculous and I will just have to keep working on that because it's daft.  Some of the paperwork tasks are quite unpleasant (disability related, and I hate it) but I am trying to distance myself and pretend I'm doing it for someone else.  It's hard - I spend all my time focusing on my son's strengths and skills and his lovely warm heart but when dealing with the system you have to focus on the negatives and I find it really tough.  But it needs to be done so I am chipping away at it and once this transition phase is over (as we're in the process of switching from child to adult services at the moment) we should have a bit of peace from it all again.

I have made a conscious decision to let go of my dreams.  Something I have really struggled with, for a long time now, is that the picture of what I want my life to be (my dreams) is so utterly different from how my life is.  They really couldn't be more incompatible.  And I've always felt holding onto my dreams was a good thing, never give up, keep moving forward, etc, etc.  And with that in mind I have kept signed up to various groups that may help (travel related, getting back into teaching, learning how to breathe fire, festival work, etc, etc).  I've kept books, music, clothing, photographs that might one day help me with any number of work possibilities - teaching, working with children or animals, running a small business, making jewellery, etc etc.  But I feel that all of that now just makes me feel more unhappy and discontent with my own life.  So I made the decision to let them go and, I have to say I felt terribly sad, but I've been bagging up things that are all related to "what life might be like one day" and I'm keeping only things that are either necessary or hold a memory of a nice past event.  I do feel better for letting it go.  I'm taking some items to the charity shop and others I will try to sell.  Speaking of selling, the van still hasn't sold but I did rehome the sofa which was good :)

I've also been thinking about why I moved back to this area after the child abuse allegations - back into the lion's den.  People have often asked me why I did it and, as mad as it sounds, it felt like the safest thing to do.  Yes, it's highly toxic, yes, there were a lot of bad memories yes, I was around people who have done colossal amounts of damage - some by doing nothing - but it was dysfunction that I knew and understood and was used to dealing with.  It felt safer than the spectre of public sector abuse, which frankly I still find more terrifying than anything else I've been through.  So it was easier coming back to this lion, rather than trying to tame a new one.  But I feel I am done with lions now.  Or at least lions that are against me.  I'd like the lions to have my back now.

Anyway - that's where things are at the minute.  We're at home for a couple of days so I'll be able to catch up on threads and find out what everyone's been doing :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 08, 2017, 04:44:12 PM
I have a question for you :)

How do you tell whether someone is being genuinely friendly or whether they have some sort of 'other' thing going on?

I'm aware I'm very sensitive (more so at the minute) and I do wonder when I get a funny feeling about someone whether I'm reacting to past events or if my instincts are (correctly) telling me something's off.  So ........... there's a very nice lady that runs the youth club my son's started going to.  In the past two weeks she's invited us to three things that she's doing - one was youth club related, the other two weren't.  On the one hand she might just be being friendly and reaching out.  On the other I've had friends like this in the past who are exceedingly nice in the early days but then the novelty wears off and they vanish.  At my most sinister level a part of me is wondering if she's been 'alerted' in some way by my mother and is monitoring us.

So how do you deal with a situation and work out whether people are genuine or not when your senses start to tingle and you start wondering what's what?  What's your strategy for figuring out what's going on?
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on December 08, 2017, 05:41:58 PM
Hey Tupp,
My idea, fwiw, is to try to hold several thoughts at once:

--Benefit of the doubt
--Boundaries
--Trust the present moment
--Be merciful

She might well not maintain a lifelong friendship at the level
and of the quality that you wish would manifest.

Does that make her not worth your time or trust now?

It's probably an attempt to keep yourself safe, to measure everyone by the standards your family of origin SHOULD have met but failed to: having your back at all costs, defending/protecting/championing you and your son--forever.

But that's a heavy expectation to put on the possibility of new friends.
Some friendships DO wax and wane. But over a lifetime, they're the most precious resource, imo.

Your gut is raw, but your gut is also saying "nice lady."

Maybe you need to give yourself permission to try things out.
To take some risks with decent people.

To develop the grace of letting things come, and letting them go.

That is so very hard for folks who have been so harmed by FOO early on.
I have struggled with it for a long time.

But the times I DO reach out and open myself to new forms of love and friendship from new people have been incredibly rewarding. They just don't add up to dependency, new actual family.

My biofamily is what it was and is gone. So friendships, and enjoying my daily relating with my oldsters, is where I find it now. (And a bit with new boyfriend).

We're all only human, just human, nothing more than human. And to one degree or another, we ALL need other people in our lives.

I don't know, but is it a possibility that the nice lady has a need for connection, a need to help and matter to someone...in her own life, for her own reasons?

I know how raw and vulnerable you feel, and how new people or new overtures trigger such paranoia and fear in you.

My hope is that one of these days, some stable, good hearted person will enter your life who will either accidentally or intentionally, show you that you're not alone.

lots of love,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on December 09, 2017, 05:29:03 PM
Hi Tupp:

Good covered so much, so well.  What I'd like to add is this....

Accepting invitations to do things doesn't have to mean you give up information that could diminish your safety.  You can join, participate, embrace fellowship on your own terms, I MO.

If this woman has no connection to your mother or if she does.....you can find out while still protecting yourself.  There's so much to talk about besides your address, future address and info that can be used against you. 

There are people who seek community and connection out there, just as there are busybodies, and sabatours.  Not knowing who's who is part of the journey.  Learning to be pragmatic and safe is different than being guarded and walked off from possibilities and positive connections.... I think.

Listening, joining and seeing how things go is different than giving yourself away.

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 12, 2017, 02:20:34 PM
Hops and Lighter, thank you for your advice, I will keep it in mind as I try and navigate my way through!  I am aware I'm behind with threads on the board and am hoping to catch up over the next few days :)

I am in two minds about this lady.  I had agreed to do a bit of cleaning at the youth club.  Originally it was two hours once a month, then it was two hours, three times a month.  I wasn't really asked, it was just said that I'd be doing three times a month.  I think my goal for next year needs to be overriding my 'be nice and smile' mode and butting in when necessary.  I don't want to do it three times a month but I didn't say anything at the time.  I have told them several times that I don't want a key and I don't want to be responsible for locking up and making the place secure.  We got there today and the key for the cleaning cupboard has gone missing.  The lady immediately asked me if I'd taken it home last time I was there.  This kind of emphasised my point about not wanting a key to the building; the other lady has been in to clean since I last did it so she would have been the last person to have it.  They don't have a spare so we couldn't get the cleaning stuff out of the cupboard.  I did what I could and as I was doing so the lady said she was off and the other lady would be leaving soon so they'd give me a key to lock up.  I again said I didn't want a key and didn't want to lock up.  She said I could post it back through the letterbox.  I feel I am not being listened to.  Then she said this was the problem with me wanting to do the cleaning on this particular day as the timing didn't fit.  I offered to help out, not to solve their lack of a cleaning lady.  So I was getting irritated.

Anyway, I did what I could; a chap came out (who is something to do with the centre and asked me to hoover up some leaves that had fallen off a plant.  He stood and watched me do it and then said they'd been lying there for weeks.  Really?  No-one could be bothered to pick them up off the floor?  The plant was dried up and sad looking so I said I'd put it in water to try to revive it, he said to leave it, someone else would do it.  Clearly everyone's been waiting for someone else to water it which is why its dying!  Then he started explaining all about fire doors to me.  We finished earlier than expected (because we couldn't do the whole place due to the cupboard being locked) and I called up to the office to let the lady know I was leaving.  I called up three times; I could hear her talking so she must have been able to hear me but no response.  I went back down the stairs to get my coat and she came down and tried to give me a key.  So I said, again, I don't want a key!!  It has quickly turned from me doing a favour that's no big deal to being a big pain in the arse so I'll do next week and no more after that.

In other news - I was supposed to be going out with some friends tonight.  I'm the only one without transport so I assumed either one of them would give me a lift or share a taxi.  I called to see what was happening and they've all sorted out lifts with each other.  I'm the only one without a lift.  Which would mean I go out, with my son, in sub zero temperatures, to catch a train that might not arrive (as the weather's bad), walk from the station to the pub, then walk back to the station to wait for a train that might not arrive and then walk back to my house in the dark, on the ice, with a child with mobility problems.  Felt very loved and looked after.  Not!  So needless to say I didn't go.

I'm kind of feeling very done with people at the moment.  The thoughtlessness and the inability to listen (as shown with the repeated situation with the key!) is really bugging me.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on December 12, 2017, 03:35:02 PM
Ya know, ((((Tupp))) -- I'm no paragon of this myself, but it hit me: BOTH of these distressing situations relate directly to assertiveness.

Assertiveness means, in the moment, saying without discomfort (after lots of practice), things like:

--I'm glad to be helping with the cleaning, but we got our wires crossed somehow. When I first volunteered my understanding was once a month. Then it got changed to three times a month. I'm sorry, but nobody checked, and that won't work for me. Also, I will not be carrying or taking home the key. Would you still like me to clean once a month if you can arrange someone else to do the locking up? Let me know.

--I'm really looking forward to getting together but I need one of you to come pick us up. If you can do that, give me a ring. Hope to see you then!

Both sitches posit that it's okay to ask for what you want (and release the outcome). How much better would it have felt to take responsibility for what you CAN (asking for what you want, or explaining what you are and are not offering to give) and then releasing the responsibility for a response to the people ("right" "wrong" or neutral) it belongs to.

(Instead of they *should* have remembered I need a ride, or they *should not* have assumed 3 times plus key responsibility would work for me.)

The assertive way means you get to not get hung up in being angry or frustrated with what somebody does or doesn't do, or judging what somebody should do. Both of those are draining for you. I found that the operatic chorus of "shoulds" in my head absolutely exhausted me. I judged everybody/everything for many years.

Instead, you ask for what you want, and release the response to be kind of...nomb. You still have to DEAL with their response if it's disappointing (they don't offer a ride, they don't appreciate your volunteering enough to adjust their expectations). But you don't feel the BURDEN of it. Because you have spoken and released the weight of worry.

You get instead to feel an unaccustomed pleasure of speaking peacefully and assertively without anger or fear. You're just saying yes, and no. For yourself.

I think (having failed at it so often I finally saw the pattern) that calm peaceful assertiveness is a big part of what makes life become more emotionally comfortable. I enjoy setting boundaries now, speaking for myself, asserting. But it took a whole lot of reading and practice.

There are some great books about assertive communication, wish I had a title to suggest....

Hope this helps and hope I'm not off base!

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 12, 2017, 04:16:16 PM
Hops, you have summed it up exactly and much better than it's all been whirring about in my head.  It is the lack of assertiveness on my part that's the problem and I kind of knew it was something to do with that but without knowing what it was I knew, if that makes sense??!  And yes, the way you word it makes so much sense and I do need to practise.  I think my fall down is that I'm so used to thinking about 'the other person' I can't get my head around other people not doing the same and I'm always flabbergasted when things turn out like this - even though it happens so often and I find myself in the same situation over and over again.  Thank you!  I shall now be practising being assertive :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on December 12, 2017, 05:56:51 PM
I get it, boy do I.
When I was at my loneliest and most abandoned-feeling I would watch people like a hawk for signs of caring.

When they disappointed me, as human beings are wont to do, I'd have a whole cascade of "they shouldas" to keep me company. I would be flabbergasted/shocked too, and even angry.

In my dotage, I think I'm figuring out some nuances I didn't see before. "Flabberghasted" or "shocked" eventually told me I just wasn't given humans much slack. I had a rigid internal code (my handy inner judgement bible) that most people would never live up to perfectly or in light of my neediness (massive).

So I needed to recognize, for me, that disappointment was a normal feeling that could move through me but it'd be fairly brief if I had been peacefully assertive. People do that. Nobody's perfect. And most importantly, nobody can read my mind, guess or anticipate just exactly what I need (or what I'm imagining they *should* remember I need). Even if someone could, doesn't make it their job. It was MY job to learn how to say what I wanted (and release the outcome.) It was kind of a revelation.

The other was that when I was shocked, I tell you, shocked (flabbergasted) over and over and over...I finally realized there was a punitive judging co-author of my handy inner bible. Flabbergastery meant I wasn't learning a significant lesson about just being human. And I wanted to get rid of her because she was f*ing wearing me OUT.

Once I cut other people some slack (and once I got strong enough to not feel that their approval or acceptance was the determining factor in me being okay)...it became easier to look at myself through a gentler lens, too. You have been hypervigilant about other people for a really long time, for really good reasons. I think there's always a logic behind our emotional patterns.

You've NEEDED to count on people for such a long time that maybe it's become reflexive to throw up the shock and judgement to protect yourself from being let down. But they become a new wall between yourself and peaceable interactions and enjoyment of others. It was for me, anyway.

I like the idea of practicing, that's the only way any of us, anyone, can ever learn to react differently. Another cool thing is that you're creating lower-risk (not about your son) opportunities for yourself to practice in. Charity center volunteers. A nice lady offering to share time.

This is really neat. Let me know if you find a good book on assertiveness because I'd love to read about it again, take a refresher course.

xo
Hops

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on December 13, 2017, 04:08:38 AM
Hops....so helpful.  Thank you.

Tupp:
If we master being assertive, think how much time we'll free up!

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 13, 2017, 08:51:59 AM
Hops....so helpful.  Thank you.

Tupp:
If we master being assertive, think how much time we'll free up!

Lighter

I am determined to try, Lighter, do you know sometimes I don't even realise I'm not being assertive?  I'm just so used to pleasing others that sometimes it's not until days or weeks later that I actually realise I'm doing something I don't want to do.  How weird is that?

Hops, thank you, that makes so much sense, and I think with me a lot of it is still approval and what other people think.  I think my programming is so automatically "I must do what the other person wants" that it doesn't even occur to me to think about what I want.  So I think I need to practise perhaps not even giving an answer straight away but saying, "I need to check my diary" or "I'll let you know later in the week".  Maybe that is a good stepping stone towards putting myself first.

And yes, the rigid internal code - definitely there.  Needs to go.

I've made a little step towards putting myself first - I'm really tired with all the Christmas prep/college court stuff/ hospital problems so I have decided not to go out this evening.  It's not a big thing but I was feeling quite stressed about trying to fit in everything we need to do today and then get out tonight, until I realised I could stay in tonight and not only do everything we need to do today but also be organised for tomorrow which will then make the rest of the week easier.  I might even get time for a bath :)

Thank you both so much xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 13, 2017, 02:55:08 PM
We've got nowhere with my son's college application.  There's nowhere that will take him and they're, at the moment, refusing to provide support at home.  All I've got myself into is a load more stress, more people wanting 'meetings' with me and, at the moment, it seems the only way to get anywhere with it is to go to court, which is more stress, more time and more work.  I feel that the only sensible course of action (in view of my health which is really causing problems now) is to pull out of the process.  I am frustrated because I've sought advice every step of the way, I've followed the advice I've been given, I've put a lot of time and work into it and it now seems that none of it has really paid off because we're just no further forward.  It feels like a lot of work for nothing.  I'd have been better off spending the time looking after myself, truth be told.

I texted the youth club to tell them (a) that my son wasn't going in tonight and (b) that we would clean next week but after Christmas we wouldn't be cleaning any more, although we would be able to help out sometimes in the holidays.  The reply acknowledged that he wasn't going in but didn't mention the cleaning.  I found that odd but am trying to focus on letting it go :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on December 13, 2017, 05:57:06 PM
Well, perhaps this college answer is the universe telling you to seek other avenues.  What options will be available at the seashore, where you'll eventually be?

Rest.  Restore yourself.  You've certainly earned it.

There will be a time to begin these tasks anew.  For now, take care of yourself, Tupp.

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 14, 2017, 02:30:13 PM
Well, perhaps this college answer is the universe telling you to seek other avenues.  What options will be available at the seashore, where you'll eventually be?

Rest.  Restore yourself.  You've certainly earned it.

There will be a time to begin these tasks anew.  For now, take care of yourself, Tupp.

Lighter

Lighter, I really hope so, I just really need a glimmer of light somewhere at the moment.  There aren't really many options anywhere, sadly, everything's so underfunded that everything is a battle.  Anyhoo............................in other news:

I've been taking more notice of what I eat and I am mostly living on carbs, sugar and caffeine.  So I am going to make an effort to get back onto a healthy eating plan again and get lots more fruit and veg in.  My currently diet will definitely not be helping with my energy levels and my low mood so I must get that sorted out.  But the good news is .................................... a friend came round today (one from the group I should have gone out with earlier in the week but there was no lift) - and they are getting together again this weekend at someone's house and would I like to come?  So I said (thank you, Hops :) ), "I'd love to, but can you get someone to come and fetch us as it's too far to walk?" and she said yes, no problem, I'll get x to text you to sort times out and she can pick you up on her way through :)  Hops, you are a genius :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on December 14, 2017, 05:28:17 PM
Whoo hoo!

You handled that beautifully, (((Tupp))).

Light
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on December 14, 2017, 05:50:27 PM
Wow. Amazing how you got to practice that when it was fresh in your mind...
(always a pleasure being called a genius, of course).

I'm super-sorry the college answers aren't coming. SO much hard work on your part has gone into it.

But I'm still hopeful that holding out for the possibility of good things happening is still one truism about the universe.

Wafting good vibes across the Atlantic at you...
And I hope you have FUN with the friends!

xo
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 15, 2017, 11:13:07 AM
Thank you both, yes, it was funny how the opportunity came up so quickly!  And it was very easy to do.  So I'm glad I did it and glad the response was good.  I do think one of my problems with being assertive stems from past (as always) times when I've asserted myself or put a boundary in place and the reaction has been a very negative one.  I do think it colours my thinking so I need to work on that.

I've given myself a health kick today - big salad for lunch, lots of fruit for snacks and I've made a veg curry for tea.  I do feel better for it; it does amaze me how quickly your body can respond to a healthy change.  I'm almost done with sorting out Christmassy stuff.  I'm going to give both the bedrooms a good clear out before Christmas as well; my son has toys that he doesn't play with and some clothes he's outgrown and I've got mountains of paperwork that I could shred and get rid of before Christmas arrives so I think that will be this weekend's little task :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on December 15, 2017, 08:57:05 PM
Tupp:

Self care and lessons learned.  It's been a pretty good week after all, I think; )
 
It sounds like you have your head where your feet are.  Well done.

Light
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 17, 2017, 10:10:24 AM
Tupp:

Self care and lessons learned.  It's been a pretty good week after all, I think; )
 
It sounds like you have your head where your feet are.  Well done.

Light

Thanks, Lighter, yes, I feel better than I did.  Today's been full of cravings, I think because it's day three of trying to be a bit healthier and I think day three is when your body starts shouting 'give me sugar!!  Give me coffee!'.  I've not gone completely without, just made an effort to eat a lot more fruit and veg and to stick to tea and water.  I've rested and napped a lot and I just want to spend the next week cleaning and working on my flat so it's as nice as possible for Christmas.  I'm getting there.  I will be glad to see the back of this year, to be honest, it started off well but went quickly down hill.  Will be nice to be focusing on new things again once Christmas is over :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on December 17, 2017, 08:12:39 PM
I"m so glad you're taking care of yourself, ((((Tupp)))).

I love the thought of you eating only the food that actually fuels and heals your body, drinking what quenches its real need, exercising as best you can. I hear you about sugar, and hold on! Times past when I've virtually given it up, eventually it became a little bit disgusting. Mirabile dictu. And I know when one holds on to the new pattern...a huge pile of vegs begins to look every bit as exciting as sugar-coated poison once did.

If you reclaim your body (I'm projecting, so very much needing to do the same) then every other challenge you cope with will go more easily.

Let's get STRONG together!

love,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 18, 2017, 03:11:23 AM
I"m so glad you're taking care of yourself, ((((Tupp)))).

I love the thought of you eating only the food that actually fuels and heals your body, drinking what quenches its real need, exercising as best you can. I hear you about sugar, and hold on! Times past when I've virtually given it up, eventually it became a little bit disgusting. Mirabile dictu. And I know when one holds on to the new pattern...a huge pile of vegs begins to look every bit as exciting as sugar-coated poison once did.

If you reclaim your body (I'm projecting, so very much needing to do the same) then every other challenge you cope with will go more easily.

Let's get STRONG together!

love,
Hops

I like the idea of getting strong together, Hops :)  I have noticed that I actually feel quite disgusted with myself when I sit slumped in front of the telly drinking coffee and eating rubbish.  I hadn't really realised that before but just making the effort to get on top of my diet again has helped, maybe even more than the actual switch?  It is interesting to wonder how much is down to vitamins and how much is psychological?  But I do feel more human this morning (more than I have for a long time).  I've done very little for the last four days; I felt I needed to rest and so I have.  I'm going to the doctor this morning about a mole I have that keeps scabbing over; cancer frightens me and I have a lot of moles so I do check them and I just want this one looked at.  I've got a little bit of shopping to do for Christmas and then, other than wrapping some presents, I'm done.  I've kept it very quiet and low key and resisted the compulsion to do lots of 'Christmassy' stuff.  So a bit of shopping today, then home for lunch and I've started clearing out my son's room ready for Christmas (we don't want Santa tripping up when he comes in) so a bit more of that as well.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on December 18, 2017, 07:50:39 AM
Actions that demonstrate that "you MATTER, to YOU"... give you "good energy" Tupp. We know how much distance there is between thinking this... and feeling it. There is even more distance to "doing it" and to persist in that new habit until it become part of you -- 5000 repetitions, if my tai chi teacher is to be believed.

This creates a momentum that I call "traction" - and it helps build resilience. So that when the reminders of the past, or new current difficulties show up - you take it in stride and keep going.

Maybe I'm just transferring a little magical thinking to the process, but I've seen this work for me in ways I wouldn't have thought possible. In the Chinese system, the shorthand is:

Intent > Will > Action

Intent is knowing what you want. Will is "mattering" to yourself. And action is self-explanatory... a manifestation in reality of that original idea of intention.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 18, 2017, 11:15:05 AM
Actions that demonstrate that "you MATTER, to YOU"... give you "good energy" Tupp. We know how much distance there is between thinking this... and feeling it. There is even more distance to "doing it" and to persist in that new habit until it become part of you -- 5000 repetitions, if my tai chi teacher is to be believed.

This creates a momentum that I call "traction" - and it helps build resilience. So that when the reminders of the past, or new current difficulties show up - you take it in stride and keep going.

Maybe I'm just transferring a little magical thinking to the process, but I've seen this work for me in ways I wouldn't have thought possible. In the Chinese system, the shorthand is:

Intent > Will > Action

Intent is knowing what you want. Will is "mattering" to yourself. And action is self-explanatory... a manifestation in reality of that original idea of intention.

That's an interesting explanation, Skep, I think it's the 'will' bit that I often fall down on.  I'm still quite consumed with proving I'm allowed air space so for me to ignore things that need doing in order to eat a decent lunch or take a nap still feels quite a task.  I am trying, though!  I was tired when we got back from shopping and a friend keeps ringing wanting to meet up because they're worried about me.  I appreciate it's meant in a nice way but I've told quite a few people now (including this friend) that I want a couple of weeks at home over Christmas doing very little and I don't want to meet up.  I had to really force myself to message him again and say, no thanks, I'll see you in the New Year.  I do find it difficult to put me (just wanting peace and quiet and no distractions) above someone else (he's concerned and wants to check on me).  But I did do it and I guess it gets easier with practise.  I had a nap and then watched some TV.  I would have been quite happy to stay on the sofa but my son is out this evening so I do need to cook and get some things done before I take him so I've got myself up, but I found myself thinking it doesn't even matter if people's Christmas stuff gets there after Christmas - I'd like to send it before but if I don't get round to it I don't think I'll give myself a terribly hard time over it.  So baby steps but heading in the right direction.

I am trying to catch up with your thread, Skep, but you're so busy there's always another two pages by the time I sit down to read it :)  xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 18, 2017, 02:05:50 PM
Well just another little observation from me, as I've just had a very brief chat with the lady at youth club and three triggers became clear.

1)  She's very nice and friendly to me but is also the person that hasn't listened to me over the key saga with the cleaning.  That screams 'mum' at me; charming the birds out of the trees but not actually seeing or hearing you (I'm not saying she's like my mum, just that it suddenly made sense why all of this has unnerved me so much).
2)  People at the youth club keep saying how lovely my son is and how much they like him going there.  Again, this screams 'mum' to me; it just brings back her obsessive determination to have him and the lengths she went to to try and get him.  Again, I'm not saying they're all doing the same, it just suddenly became clear to me and I get now why I find people being nice about him so unnerving.
3)  They're taking pictures for the local paper and I've had to say no to my son being in them.  This upsets me, but if it's in the local paper she'll see it and then she's got a new place she can make a false allegation to.  I feel like I'm just putting myself out there and saying "hit me again".  It upsets me that we still don't have that protection from her doing what she wants, and also that I am aware I'm just no longer strong enough to cope with it again, even if it were just a minor situation.  The fall out now (with all the health problems flaring up and the flashbacks and so on) is just too much to even take a chance on it.  Just having had to say no and briefly explaining why has left me out of breath, light headed and my chest feeling tight.  My stomach's churning and I feel tearful.  I hate that it still has such an effect on me all these years later but all I can do is keep noticing these things and working through them, I guess.

Anyway, just things I noticed and wanted to get down quickly before I forgot :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 19, 2017, 09:20:14 AM
Well, my assertive friends, prepare to be amazed :)

We went to the youth club to clean - last session before Christmas (and last one we will be doing due to key saga).

We'd been there half an hour when the lady came down from the office - she was leaving and said could I lock up and put the key back through the letterbox.  Now I'd said repeatedly I didn't want to do this but as it was our last time and we wouldn't be doing it again I said okay.  She then said "and then you need to set the alarm".  So I said, very firmly, "No, I've said repeatedly that I don't want the responsibility of locking up or setting an alarm.  I've been very clear about this several times".  She went on to explain that if I was the only person left in the building I had to lock up - as if I were just a bit too thick to understand the principle, rather than it being about her not listening to what I've said over and over again.  So I said okay, I'll leave with you now then, at which point she said there were two other people upstairs in the office so I said, okay, I'll leave when they leave but can you tell them to let me know they're going - at which point she said "well they're leaving now!"  What a stupid, nonsensicle fiasco!  So I said okay, packed the cleaning things up and left the building when they did, leaving them to lock up.

I am annoyed that we wasted time going up there - thirty minutes is a waste of time and it's frustrating that I've been very clear about this thing with the key and still no-one's listening - but I'm glad I stood my ground and glad I'm not doing it again!
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on December 20, 2017, 04:00:17 PM
Look at it this way, Tup..... it's good clean practice.
 Timely and helpful.
:: nodding::.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 21, 2017, 01:37:51 AM
Look at it this way, Tup..... it's good clean practice.
 Timely and helpful.
:: nodding::.

You are right, Lighter, it is good practise, and it made me realise that I am not going to offer to volunteer or put myself forward in these sort of situations again.  I always think I should - again I think it's that feeling of needing to prove I'm worthy of air space.  And if I genuinely had free time I would do, but there literally isn't a minute in the day when there isn't something I shouldn't be doing.  I need to work on knowing I am worthy without having to find a way to demonstrate that, if that makes sense? xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on December 21, 2017, 03:11:02 AM
Well, noticing our stuff is part of fixing it, IME, Tupp.  Again, well done. 

You are worthy. 

Lighter

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 21, 2017, 05:12:51 AM
Well, noticing our stuff is part of fixing it, IME, Tupp.  Again, well done. 

You are worthy. 

Lighter

Thanks, Lighter :) xx

Just updating my online diary :)

I've decided to give myself two weeks off.  I was drinking my tea this morning and I realised that I've never had a two week holiday, in my whole life.  Before I had son I rarely had time off work and when I did it was usually a few days here and there.  Generally I was always self-employed so no work meant no money.  When I was teaching we had school holidays, but I often did other work during those.  So I decided to give myself two weeks of just not having things to get done - no paperwork, no interaction with public sector workers, no worrying about future adult care and hospitals and all the rest of it.  Just pottering about at home, nice and quiet, staying in, going out, whatever we fancy.  I feel excited!  I can't remember ever not having a pressure to achieve certain things all the time.  But now I feel like just doing what I fancy and seeing how it goes.  It feels nice :)

My mum and sister are in full fight mode again.  It's been all over Facebook (my mum instigating it) and now they are arguing via email again.  My instinct has always been to protect my sister and still is.  I noticed I feel obligated to give advice and support because I've been through the same and I know how hard it is.  She told me it's affecting her kids and that breaks my heart; I am still struggling with my childhood stuff and I am in my forties (and I know some on the board are still working through it and have carried it even longer).  So my urge to rescue, protect and mother kicked in full force.  But ........ I have taken a step back.  My sister will have to acknowledge her part in the dance, as we all do, before anything can change.  My mum will never change.  I know how hard it is to accept that.  But I also know that nothing changes all the time you hold on to the belief that things might be different.  I hate that my sister's kids are suffering because of it - but I got my son out ten years ago for exactly this reason.  And we've got two weeks of an open diary ahead of us now so I'm not going to spend it worrying about anyone else or trying to patch my sister through this again.  And I actually don't feel guilty about that?  Which is a step forward, I think xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on December 21, 2017, 01:38:38 PM
Just giving up....
Dreams, self inflicted responsibility, expectations....is my idea if getting out if one's own way.  Of course, we pay attention to how it feels, and all the changes taking place as you're doing with your journal.

And, I feel the same about " helping" people in my life, like your sister.  I feel any response, outside if"Let me know how that works out for you," keeps them comfortable enough not to find a way to move through and out of their pattern. 

We remain stuck worrying about things we aren't responsible for, whatever the motivation.  For me it's many things....distraction from my stuff, helping, protecting, saving...then I remember I can't save people from themselves.  They have to do it, and my fiddling about in their process isn't helpful to anyone past the point we've shared all advice, and we're simply repeating it to people we can't help.... at the point they remain mired, we're part of that equation, IME.  We're enabling them to stay in the situation, not giving them the open scary space they need to feeeeel deeply their distress, and make changes to move through it. 

I have two male friends I listen to, comfort, validate and I recognize the part of enabling I play, even though I shoot brutally straight with them, rather than giving advice only.

It's apparently what I do before moving away emotionally, so they fully engage their struggles and find resolution....new ways to engage or leave behind etc.

  I care what they think of me, and that's something I work through myself, for my own sake.  For reasons of my own, I get something from "helping" others.  It's honorable,and positive up to a point.  I'm at that point, and everyone can move on if the helping, in the same old enabling ways, stops.  If I choose something else.  And I will.  I do.  It's a work in progress.

You, Tupp, can't save your sister or her children.  You've given all your advice, and watched helplessly as she repeats patterns.  What can you do to help her feel deeply her distress so she has to find new ways to move through and out? 

Learning how to disengage from feeling responsible from things we can't control is hard.

Learning how to draw back and gain emotional distance is helpful...it keeps us from acting before we consider possible responses, or non responses.

I know Hops could say all that with economy of words, but that's what I've got.

I note how similar our journeys are, and turn back to organizing my space, and finishing Christmas cards today.

It helps to share information and teach lessons we're working on, but only if we release expectations for outcomes, IME.  Only if we're ​on top of our own business, and self care.

Enjoy your two week holiday sans guilt, Tupp.  Roll around in it, luxuriate in it till it feels familiar, and more right.

::nodding::..

Your sister can begin the next stage of her mum journey.  She's right where she's supposed to be.  When she wants to be somewhere else, she'll take herself.

Lighter

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on December 21, 2017, 01:48:09 PM
Surrender, Tupp.  Give up the Have To's, and see what comes next. 

That.

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 21, 2017, 02:21:29 PM
Just giving up....
Dreams, self inflicted responsibility, expectations....is my idea if getting out if one's own way.  Of course, we pay attention to how it feels, and all the changes taking place as you're doing with your journal.

And, I feel the same about " helping" people in my life, like your sister.  I feel any response, outside if"Let me know how that works out for you," keeps them comfortable enough not to find a way to move through and out of their pattern. 

We remain stuck worrying about things we aren't responsible for, whatever the motivation.  For me it's many things....distraction from my stuff, helping, protecting, saving...then I remember I can't save people from themselves.  They have to do it, and my fiddling about in their process isn't helpful to anyone past the point we've shared all advice, and we're simply repeating it to people we can't help.... at the point they remain mired, we're part of that equation, IME.  We're enabling them to stay in the situation, not giving them the open scary space they need to feeeeel deeply their distress, and make changes to move through it. 

I have two male friends I listen to, comfort, validate and I recognize the part of enabling I play, even though I shoot brutally straight with them, rather than giving advice only.

It's apparently what I do before moving away emotionally, so they fully engage their struggles and find resolution....new ways to engage or leave behind etc.

  I care what they think of me, and that's something I work through myself, for my own sake.  For reasons of my own, I get something from "helping" others.  It's honorable,and positive up to a point.  I'm at that point, and everyone can move on if the helping, in the same old enabling ways, stops.  If I choose something else.  And I will.  I do.  It's a work in progress.

You, Tupp, can't save your sister or her children.  You've given all your advice, and watched helplessly as she repeats patterns.  What can you do to help her feel deeply her distress so she has to find new ways to move through and out? 

Learning how to disengage from feeling responsible from things we can't control is hard.

Learning how to draw back and gain emotional distance is helpful...it keeps us from acting before we consider possible responses, or non responses.

I know Hops could say all that with economy of words, but that's what I've got.

I note how similar our journeys are, and turn back to organizing my space, and finishing Christmas cards today.

It helps to share information and teach lessons we're working on, but only if we release expectations for outcomes, IME.  Only if we're ​on top of our own business, and self care.

Enjoy your two week holiday sans guilt, Tupp.  Roll around in it, luxuriate in it till it feels familiar, and more right.

::nodding::..

Your sister can begin the next stage of her mum journey.  She's right where she's supposed to be.  When she wants to be somewhere else, she'll take herself.

Lighter

Yes, I agree with all of that!  I've always been very focused on changing myself and my environment - mostly because I've always been very unhappy, I suppose.  I can remember as young as eight having clear ideas about needing to be different and constantly focusing on things that needed to be done.  Mostly I had a thing in my head that if I did certain things - got my spellings all right, did my times tables test, behaved well in school - that my dad wouldn't be dead and he'd come back to get me.  And it's never really changed.  I've always had one more thing to do, one more thing and then I'll be happy.  And it's just never come.  So I think it is time to just sit back for a while and not do, just sit and see what happens.  It does feel very freeing.  I do want to focus very much on getting out and having fun next year, rather than always focusing on work and doing 'educational' things with my son.  He needs more of a life so I'm going to try and get us along to more concerts and gigs and maybe a music festival, if we can.  We'll see how things go financially but we definitely need to be getting out more than we do.  And yes, my sister's situation will only change if she changes it.  It's down to her now, that line between helping and enabling is a very fine one, I think.  Hard to know where to draw it sometimes but it does need to be drawn.  She's in exactly the same situation she was a month ago, almost word for word.  I will be focusing on myself and my boy.  It does feel nice :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 21, 2017, 04:15:48 PM
I've been assertive again :)  I might have to start calling myself Mrs Assertive Pants :)  An old friend - one who vanished many years ago, wounding me deeply, has messaged me.  I have long since placed the friendship in the 'there was a time' bin; she disappeared after many years of friendship, ignored all attempts on my part to talk or meet up and after a lot of tears and soul searching on my part I let it/her go and she is now in the past.  The message arrived and I was going to ignore it but then I thought no, so I've replied, honestly, and explained that I've not heard from her for so long that I don't want to reconnect now (bit more politely than that but you get the gist) and wished her well and a Merry Christmas.  It felt good!  It's for her to cope with any feelings that may bring up, right?  That's a big issue for me, not wanting to cause or elicit feelings in people that they don't like.  But it's not my bag so I've said my bit and she can do as she needs to with it :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on December 21, 2017, 08:41:15 PM
Dear Miz AssPants,

I am soooooooooooo impressed.

Humbly,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on December 23, 2017, 01:32:50 PM
Wowsers, Tupp. 

Well done with the response.  I think you needed that closure, fir yourself.  What the ex friend died with it is her business. That you're clear is what's important, I think.

What comes up for me.... reading your recent posts...is your throwing off the weight of feeling at the mercy of....
 throwing off have to's.....living with the perception of zero choices. You're realizing there are choices.  Choic s you couldn't see, but now can. 

Creativity will seep in again.  You'll feel less conflicted about giving your sister space to face the dark night of her soul, as you've learned your own dark nights won't destroy you. 

By now there's understanding of your own strength.  What you've survived, and stood against, come out the other end, though it's sometimes hard to tell if you're truly out.

As far as letting your sister get on with her journey, with economy of motion and time....you've said everything you'd say to her many times.  You have nothing to add she hasn't heard. 

Once you stop talking she'll likely feel a bit unmoored, and that's the point she'll have to figure out how to feel better for herself, without you to lean on, taking her weight, feeling her depth of confusion and sorrow...
 for her.

You can't fix this for her, though you would if you could.  I know that about you, Tupp.  You're intensely loyal and empathic....you are.  It's rare, and amazing, but it's been harming your ability to respond in so many ways.  There's no payoff is there? You can help more by stepping back, and that knowledge will free you, IMO.

You'll have more energy when you aren't carrying so much weight for others, ((((Tupp)))).

You've learned how to be assertive.  Now you'll mine relief and comfort from it.


Lighter







Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 23, 2017, 02:18:42 PM
Dear Miz AssPants,

I am soooooooooooo impressed.

Humbly,
Hops

Lol, thank you, Hops!  A friend came round last night and I told her what I'd said and she nearly choked on her biscuit :)  Lol
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 23, 2017, 02:28:07 PM
Wowsers, Tupp. 

Well done with the response.  I think you needed that closure, fir yourself.  What the ex friend died with it is her business. That you're clear is what's important, I think.

What comes up for me.... reading your recent posts...is your throwing off the weight of feeling at the mercy of....
 throwing off have to's.....living with the perception of zero choices. You're realizing there are choices.  Choic s you couldn't see, but now can. 

Creativity will seep in again.  You'll feel less conflicted about giving your sister space to face the dark night of her soul, as you've learned your own dark nights won't destroy you. 

By now there's understanding of your own strength.  What you've survived, and stood against, come out the other end, though it's sometimes hard to tell if you're truly out.

As far as letting your sister get on with her journey, with economy of motion and time....you've said everything you'd say to her many times.  You have nothing to add she hasn't heard. 

Once you stop talking she'll likely feel a bit unmoored, and that's the point she'll have to figure out how to feel better for herself, without you to lean on, taking her weight, feeling her depth of confusion and sorrow...
 for her.

You can't fix this for her, though you would if you could.  I know that about you, Tupp.  You're intensely loyal and empathic....you are.  It's rare, and amazing, but it's been harming your ability to respond in so many ways.  There's no payoff is there? You can help more by stepping back, and that knowledge will free you, IMO.

You'll have more energy when you aren't carrying so much weight for others, ((((Tupp)))).

You've learned how to be assertive.  Now you'll mine relief and comfort from it.


Lighter

Thank you, Lighter, I agree!  I am tired of being an emotional dumping ground for so many people and of always being available and nice and reasonable and very forgiving.  I don't want to turn into a screaming harpy or a mirror image of my mum's bitter resentment of everyone but I am tired of automatically putting other people before myself.  Yes, it was good to be honest with that friend.  If I'd ignored it she might have kept trying to contact me and I really don't want to talk to her now.  It's been too long (and I did reach out to her a few years back and explain that I missed talking to her and would love to hear from her and she still did nothing) so for me it's done.  I'm a good friend to people and I deserve to have good friendship in return - and for me that means keeping in contact and having a chat every now and again.

My sis, yes, I've left her to it, she's fine as everything is so busy with Christmas and she has her partner's family who have all taken her under their wing so she can deal or not deal with it as she sees fit.  I have spent so many years dealing with my feelings about my mum and endless hours in therapy - all of which was difficult, painful and expensive so I've earnt my stripes, I think.  I don't need to go through it all again.

And just to carry on the 'being assertive' theme - a plant has been delivered to our address by mistake.  I don't know where it should have gone as I don't recognise the address on the box but it isn't ours.  I posted on a local Facebook page for anyone who knew the householder to contact me and looked up a phone number with directory enquiries but haven't had any luck.  I called the company who delivered the parcel and the lady wasn't very helpful and didn't really know what to suggest (why having it collected and re-delivered isn't an option I don't know).  I heard myself say (in my head) "don't worry, Ill find out where it is and drop it round there".  And then I thought, no I won't, I want to do my Christmas cooking, clean my house and take my son to the cinema and I don't have time to traipse around looking for this house.  So I told the lady I'd leave it out by the front door so she can arrange for someone to fetch it and left it at that.  It's only a small thing (and I did start feeling guilty this morning) but then I thought no, I've tried three different ways to reunite it with it's owner and that's enough.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on December 23, 2017, 03:07:50 PM
The universe has sent you a nice plant for Christmas!

Enjoy it. Maybe it'll flourish and be an ongoing symbol of grace, unexpected positives.
(And the company is responsible for the misdelivery, not you.)

Reminds me of The Miracle of the Toilet Paper! I have the opportunity of being reminded of unexpected grace every time I wipe my bum. Your plant could be a much more elegant reminder of the same... I wanna know what it looks like!

Wishing you, Lighter, Amber and everyone so much peace and hope ... and feeling so much gratitude for the blessing of VESMB (and to you, good Doc G, the patient man behind the curtain who has given so much to us....endless gratitude).

xxoo
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 24, 2017, 10:06:35 PM
The universe has sent you a nice plant for Christmas!

Enjoy it. Maybe it'll flourish and be an ongoing symbol of grace, unexpected positives.
(And the company is responsible for the misdelivery, not you.)

Reminds me of The Miracle of the Toilet Paper! I have the opportunity of being reminded of unexpected grace every time I wipe my bum. Your plant could be a much more elegant reminder of the same... I wanna know what it looks like!

Wishing you, Lighter, Amber and everyone so much peace and hope ... and feeling so much gratitude for the blessing of VESMB (and to you, good Doc G, the patient man behind the curtain who has given so much to us....endless gratitude).

xxoo
Hops

Lol, I had forgotten about the toilet paper!  Are you still working your way through it??!
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on December 25, 2017, 12:29:09 AM
No, alas, worked my way through the whole pallet-full. Well, not a pallet but a lot of rolls.

But every new roll can be pagan kin to those miraculous ones. I just have to remember.

What a lovely ridiculous notion.

While I'm sharing my bathroom life I should say that my pooch has learned that when I'm on the throne, it's the exact right height for her to get a good back scratch. I've even started keeping her brush on the edge of the tub. It makes me laugh because she flies in and comes to a screeching halt right in front of me with this look, like "Okay, hurry up with your business because I'm ready for my massage..."

It's one of those ridiculous things people who live alone do, I guess. I'm eccentric!

 :lol:

Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on December 25, 2017, 03:29:19 PM
Tupp, still wanna know:

What kind is the MMH (Miraculously Misdirected Houseplant)?
What's it look like?

 :D
Hops the Mad Poster Who Took Her ADD-Stimulant-This-Morning-And-Aren't-We-Sorry? (No Need to Reply to My Trivialities...)

Sorry, :P
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 25, 2017, 04:29:37 PM
Tupp, still wanna know:

What kind is the MMH (Miraculously Misdirected Houseplant)?
What's it look like?

 :D
Hops the Mad Poster Who Took Her ADD-Stimulant-This-Morning-And-Aren't-We-Sorry? (No Need to Reply to My Trivialities...)

Sorry, :P
Hops

Lol, I'm not sure what it is, dark green leaves with deep red buds, there's no label to identify it and plants are not my strong point!  I don't recognise it so it can't be a terribly common one.  I did get a message back on Facebook earlier today from someone who'd seen my post and lives opposite the address it should have gone to so it might yet get back to its rightful owner :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 28, 2017, 06:03:42 PM
Just posting some bits as I'm noticing them:

I finally got bored of watching TV and started reading again.  I have been in a rut for a long time of watching way more television than I ever used to, and not particularly enjoying it but just not being motivated to bother doing anything else.  I had a couple of days where the TV was on a lot less and I almost got to the end of a book I bought in the charity shop (one of the problems I've had with reading is not getting to the end of books).  Yesterday a note arrived from my mum, today I got a response to my complaint about my son's educational provision (or lack of).  It wasn't until I went to bed that I realised I spent about six hours today (late afternoon into the evening) slumped in front of the telly without really noticing either the time or what I was watching.  It's definitely something I use to numb myself.  Quite what I do with that now I know for sure I don't know, but it was interesting to see the comparison.

Usual from my mum - writing to tell me what she's planning to do; her latest announcement is that she will send all my son's birthday cards on his 16th (her family and friends have apparently been sending her cards for him for the last ten years) and then she's cutting all ties.  Only ten years after I cut all ties with her so better late than never, I guess.  She and my sister have made up again so I am glad I kept out of it.  I think the thing that bothers me the most is that my sister acknowledges it is troubling the kids - but still keeps leaving them in the middle of it all.  I really struggle with that so it's best that I keep my distance.

Being poorly this week has highlighted my isolation again.  I haven't seen a soul for over a week now as I've been too ill to go out and that's what's difficult about being on your own, the effort that you have to make every day for some company.  Again, I don't quite know what to do about that but it's something else that struck me.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on December 28, 2017, 09:22:19 PM
Aww, Tupp I m sorry you're still ill.  You just stay tucked with hot beverages and zicam till you're feeling better.  Then you'll venture out, and see about more human contact.

Your mom is broken.  Irreversibly, and your sister can't keep that in focus yet.  It's a lot to process....that kind of life altering truth.  I'm with you, in that I worry about your sister's children.  Particularly around the pedophile.  What a world.  The adult conflict is bad too, but you can't do anything about that.  It's not yours to fix, my dear.

Regarding the pedophile, you have choices.....do something....call and report, or do nothing and trust the universe.  The one truth is that both options are flawed, and unsatisfactory.  The second truth is you have the ability to choose how you respond to this broken situation you can't control.

Worrying does nothing but harm your health.  Doing what you can, then releasing the outcome is the most you should ask from yourself, imo. 

Snuggle in.  Read some more.  This cold will pass.

Lighter





Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 29, 2017, 03:12:09 AM
Aww, Tupp I m sorry you're still ill.  You just stay tucked with hot beverages and zicam till you're feeling better.  Then you'll venture out, and see about more human contact.

Your mom is broken.  Irreversibly, and your sister can't keep that in focus yet.  It's a lot to process....that kind of life altering truth.  I'm with you, in that I worry about your sister's children.  Particularly around the pedophile.  What a world.  The adult conflict is bad too, but you can't do anything about that.  It's not yours to fix, my dear.

Regarding the pedophile, you have choices.....do something....call and report, or do nothing and trust the universe.  The one truth is that both options are flawed, and unsatisfactory.  The second truth is you have the ability to choose how you respond to this broken situation you can't control.

Worrying does nothing but harm your health.  Doing what you can, then releasing the outcome is the most you should ask from yourself, imo. 

Snuggle in.  Read some more.  This cold will pass.

Lighter

Hi, Lighter, thank you, I am feeling better now, I'm at the 'endlessly blowing snot out of my nose stage' which is delightful :)  I'm over the worst of it, just about everyone I know has been poorly over Christmas, I think it's how the germs like to celebrate ;)

You are right about my step-dad, unfortunately.  I have reported him over the years, to both the police and social services but neither took any action (well not against him at any rate; they both came after me).  Interestingly there's just been a big case here involving an Iranian guy who was beaten to death by his racist neighbours.  There's been a big enquiry because it transpired there had been a lengthy campaign of violence and harassment against this guy (before they murdered him) that the guy had reported over and over again - and the authorities had turned on him and done nothing about his tormentors.  It rang bells as we've had similar over the years; I've reported my mum and my step-dad to so many different organisations over the years, directly and indirectly, but each time it's resulted in someone accusing me of being mentally ill, lying and being an abusive mum.  Added to which everyone in the family knows, including my sister - and they all still prefer to pretend nothing bad happened.  I think my only hope is that these days schools drum anti abuse/report abuse mantras into kids in a way that never happened when I was at school, plus they all have counsellors and school nurses who are trained to pick up on behaviours and clues.  Plus kids now have their own phones and constant internet access so they can contact people/organisations in a way that wasn't possible when I was a kid.  So I am hoping that (a) she has an out and (b) that the fact I've created so much over the years he won't be so willing to risk it with her.  Yikes.  Horrible options, aren't they?  Anyway.  I feel keep the lines of communication open, without getting overly involved.  If I saw or heard anything that made me think something was going on with him then I would report him again but without any new information I feel kind of stuck.

How are you getting on with your moss? :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 29, 2017, 04:38:39 AM
Tupp, still wanna know:

What kind is the MMH (Miraculously Misdirected Houseplant)?
What's it look like?

 :D
Hops the Mad Poster Who Took Her ADD-Stimulant-This-Morning-And-Aren't-We-Sorry? (No Need to Reply to My Trivialities...)

Sorry, :P
Hops

Hops, you'll be pleased to know that the plant is a Hibiscus (I'm not sure about the spelling!).  The lady it was intended for has been away and came to collect it; she was very nice and very appreciative that I'd hung on to it for her.  I do need to get my 'all humans are evil' thing out of my head; I approached this as a possible nightmare scenario that would cause me extra work and inconvenience but instead a nice neighbour (who I hadn't actually spoken to before) put a note through the lady's door for me so I didn't have to go out and the lady herself couldn't have been nicer or more grateful.  I do need to work on my 'this will end up with me getting egg on my face' approach.  And now I know what a Hibiscus looks like :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 29, 2017, 06:24:12 AM
Okay, I'm obviously having a musings day today so I shall just ramble on as things occur to me :)

I've been thinking a lot about my stress levels and how best to deal with them and I think I've been doing things back to front.  What I've tried to do, for years now, is to create a lifestyle through yoga, getting outdoors, eating well, avoiding stimulants, etc, etc, that would mean I can manage stress easily because I'd just be living in a zen like state where nothing bothered me.  It doesn't work.  What I think I realised this morning (as I started to tackle my enormously untidy flat and shifted a big pile of paperwork from one table to another so I could sit down and eat my breakfast) is that my desire to not be like my mum (ie, not endlessly clean, obsess about worktops and ignore my kids while I get on with more important things) is actually creating a lot of the stress in my life.  I do cope better, and feel better, if the place is clean and tidy and if my paperwork (and any important upcoming stuff) is organised and I'm on top of it all.  For years I've felt I should be able to cope if only I could do more yoga, drink less coffee, quiet my mind and so on.  But I realised (as I started to tidy up this morning) that it makes much more sense to prioritise cleaning and tidying the flat and getting the paperwork done so that I don't have that constant underlying stress running through me (which in turn makes any stressful events more difficult to deal with).  It's so simple but I've resisted it for so long because my mum just never stopped cleaning and I've always been so resistant to it.  But it does stress me out and I do feel happier in a clean, tidy, paperwork free home so it's time for an about turn on what to do first and instead of trying to do yoga inside a messy flat and I am concentrating on tidying up and getting irritating jobs out of the way so that I can do yoga later and actually find it a relaxing experience :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on December 29, 2017, 09:15:25 AM
That kind of resistance, I call "conditional thinking" Tupps.

I set an impossible condition for myself that has to be met, before I can _________. It's been an issue I struggle with, for some time. I sort of have an uneasy truce with it, right now. I've insisted that the "condition" part of the resistance accept the fact that I've been through the "life stresses" top 10 for most of my life. And I REQUIRE a certain amount of "slack". However, I've agreed that some things are important enough - say paying bills - that I agree to deal with them in a prompt fashion, regardless of how the "resistor" is feeling. (The resistor can flip from wanting one thing to another in the blink of an eye.)

In my case, I'm pretty sure this was created in my attempts to satisfy "she must be obeyed" - the old bat - and like I usually do - I over-compensated.

Have you ever seen the movie "Groundhog Day" - stars Bill Murray? It's 20 some years old now or more. This describes pretty well how I feel going through all this stuff I'm trying gain some conscious awareness of, then practicing control of it - conscious choice; and finally freedom from the ingrained, unconscious habits. It's a prominent feature in my life now, with yet another "starting over" life phase and all the different requirements for living here. I try to remember it's an opportunity and NOT penance; I really didn't do anything "wrong" per se (except in the old bat's mind) and because this habit of being obsessive about the "conditions" was how I discovered a way to be "good enough".
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 29, 2017, 10:15:04 AM
That kind of resistance, I call "conditional thinking" Tupps.

I set an impossible condition for myself that has to be met, before I can _________. It's been an issue I struggle with, for some time. I sort of have an uneasy truce with it, right now. I've insisted that the "condition" part of the resistance accept the fact that I've been through the "life stresses" top 10 for most of my life. And I REQUIRE a certain amount of "slack". However, I've agreed that some things are important enough - say paying bills - that I agree to deal with them in a prompt fashion, regardless of how the "resistor" is feeling. (The resistor can flip from wanting one thing to another in the blink of an eye.)

In my case, I'm pretty sure this was created in my attempts to satisfy "she must be obeyed" - the old bat - and like I usually do - I over-compensated.

Have you ever seen the movie "Groundhog Day" - stars Bill Murray? It's 20 some years old now or more. This describes pretty well how I feel going through all this stuff I'm trying gain some conscious awareness of, then practicing control of it - conscious choice; and finally freedom from the ingrained, unconscious habits. It's a prominent feature in my life now, with yet another "starting over" life phase and all the different requirements for living here. I try to remember it's an opportunity and NOT penance; I really didn't do anything "wrong" per se (except in the old bat's mind) and because this habit of being obsessive about the "conditions" was how I discovered a way to be "good enough".

Ooh, yes, Skep, isn't it weird?!  Just so deep seated and not in your face, just there and quietly controlling your life!  We packed away the Christmas decs this morning and I spent an hour or so just putting things back where they should be, and I've just spent a couple of hours catching up on emails and sorting out little things - bills, a new Direct Debit I needed to sort out, a couple of letters.  Normally I'd be thinking I need to do my 'self love' first, to prioritise myself, and then sort out food for the day and that sort of thing.  But this feels so much better, I think for me, taking care of our home (which includes bills and paperwork and all that sort of stuff) is part of self love or self care.  I feel calmer than I usually would at this time of day (in fact I'd normally be flaking out on the sofa about now but I actually feel quite energised and up for going out for a walk.  I haven't particularly got an enormous amount done but the fact that I've done some of it (and none of it took as long as I thought, which is often the case).  So now I'm looking forward to a bath and doing a bit of yoga later on a tidy floor!  Lol xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on December 29, 2017, 12:28:10 PM
Tupp, that's a very cool insight. It's as though you're going to address your stress that's exogenous. It literally comes from your environment. And doing/maintaining that will free mental space to also work on your stress that's endogenous (from your history, anxiety over circumstances, etc). Makes total sense to me, but I am one who salivates over the Marie Kondo message (despite not following it well, my little steps in the right direction are still inspired by the body of info I absorbed with decluttering books--hers plus Peter Walsh's, mainly).

I wouldn't worry about your own cleaning becoming your mother's cleaning. This is YOUR home, not hers. YOUR mind, not hers. And making it serene and orderly is a gift to yourself, and research totally shows that order in a home, visual order, reduces stress even with biological measures. You can practice tidying up in good faith that it's not neurotic, just a very positive personal-care practice.

love
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 29, 2017, 01:34:59 PM
Tupp, that's a very cool insight. It's as though you're going to address your stress that's exogenous. It literally comes from your environment. And doing/maintaining that will free mental space to also work on your stress that's endogenous (from your history, anxiety over circumstances, etc). Makes total sense to me, but I am one who salivates over the Marie Kondo message (despite not following it well, my little steps in the right direction are still inspired by the body of info I absorbed with decluttering books--hers plus Peter Walsh's, mainly).

I wouldn't worry about your own cleaning becoming your mother's cleaning. This is YOUR home, not hers. YOUR mind, not hers. And making it serene and orderly is a gift to yourself, and research totally shows that order in a home, visual order, reduces stress even with biological measures. You can practice tidying up in good faith that it's not neurotic, just a very positive personal-care practice.

love
Hops

Thanks, Hops, yes, it's been an interesting day, I'm amazed at how much more I got done and how much better I feel just because I switched around the way I do things and decided that I do want a clean and tidy home and I like it better that way.  I do always have this sense that I ought to be able to cope with anything - so if I want to read a book and the only place to do that is on an unmade bed then I should be able to do that.  I don't know why I have this "oh I'll just have to cope" attitude - it's been there all my life.  The truth is what I really want is a lovely, spacious sitting room where I can relax on a lovely sofa and read a book with my tea on a nice little side table next to me and the cat being graceful somewhere (I don't think the cat will ever be graceful lol).  So yes, I am going to work towards this now.  Clean and serene.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on December 31, 2017, 01:27:40 PM
New Year's Eve and I am feeling a little down.  My cold keeps resurfacing; I think we are on day seven now of not doing much and not seeing or speaking to anyone.  I am tired of feeling left out as friends and family get busy over the festive period.  Not their fault; we can't join in because my son gets too tired so we just have to sit it out at home but it is a pain and I'm bored of it.  The weather's been dreadful as well so even getting out for a walk has been impossible several times.

So, the coming year.  I want to put myself first, work on my health, work on bringing a life I want towards me, rather than having to keep coping with other people and their bullshit.  The idea of moving away and telling no-one appeals; a completely fresh start without all the bad memories, bumping into people I don't want to see, all the former 'friends' who live close by but haven't kept in touch.  I've been looking into retraining and I'm thinking about a career in the probation service now.  I did laugh to myself as when I read up on the requirements they look for in applicants it said "Must be able to cope with challenging behaviour" and I thought, wow, maybe my mum has been useful after all :)

I don't want to spend next Christmas and New Year sitting in on my own.  In fact, I don't want to spend the bulk of next year sitting in on my own.  Fifteen years of that now, and I'm done with it.  Looking forward to change, new beginnings, new starts.

Happy New Year, everybody :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on December 31, 2017, 07:04:36 PM
Happy New Year Tupp!

There are a bunch of us introverts who prefer staying in, to going out in all the crowds and life-threatening cold we have this year. We'll be asleep most likely before midnight - but we WILL celebrate with each other online. I kinda enjoy designing my own personal celebration - apart from what's expected and that everyone else is doing. Given the folks online participating - it's kind of a make it up as you go along adventure.

It's still Yule, till Saturday - and Friday the kids will be here for our gathering. So my Christmas hasn't even happened yet. Holly & Matt are coming Thursday - to help get ready for her once-in-a-lifetime "F*** Forty" birthday party. LOL. Her only other birthday party was something less than sensational - but I tried. I've only ever had one real birthday party. And this was something I wanted to do for her. We weren't entirely sure she'd survive to this age.... LOL.

So, I'll be up for awhile. It's bitter cold, and I'm babysitting the woodstove. Still haven't had dinner. I don't remember the time difference between there and here anymore. I'll keep checking back if you want to chat.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on January 01, 2018, 01:09:21 AM
Happy New Year, Tupp and Amber!

Sending you both all peace, all comfort, all health and all hope for 2018.

Tupp, hope the cold and the isolation both vanish soon. And it's wonderful to hear you opening to the idea of new work and new "claiming" of the idea of happiness for yourself. Whatever shape those take, it's so good to share your imaginings. Nobody deserves it more.

Amber, I'm loving the thought of your cozy likewise "claimed" peaceful night. I can smell the woodsmoke and imagine the pleasure of anticipating Holly's gathering. That must mean so much to you. I hope the house is soon filled with laughter and the warmth of others, but "just enough."

love,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 01, 2018, 02:23:45 AM
Happy New Year Tupp!

There are a bunch of us introverts who prefer staying in, to going out in all the crowds and life-threatening cold we have this year. We'll be asleep most likely before midnight - but we WILL celebrate with each other online. I kinda enjoy designing my own personal celebration - apart from what's expected and that everyone else is doing. Given the folks online participating - it's kind of a make it up as you go along adventure.

It's still Yule, till Saturday - and Friday the kids will be here for our gathering. So my Christmas hasn't even happened yet. Holly & Matt are coming Thursday - to help get ready for her once-in-a-lifetime "F*** Forty" birthday party. LOL. Her only other birthday party was something less than sensational - but I tried. I've only ever had one real birthday party. And this was something I wanted to do for her. We weren't entirely sure she'd survive to this age.... LOL.

So, I'll be up for awhile. It's bitter cold, and I'm babysitting the woodstove. Still haven't had dinner. I don't remember the time difference between there and here anymore. I'll keep checking back if you want to chat.

Aw, thanks, Skep, I've been sleeping, it's just after 7am here now, no, I've no idea what the time difference is, either!  Happy New Year to you.

Holly's Party sounds fabulous.  I think getting a group of people with an idea to have fun in the same room guarantees a good time, regardless of anything else.  A friend of mine had a big party for her 50th; she'd recently got over cancer as well so it was a double celebration.  They're great ways to bring people together and just have some fun for the sake of it.  I need a good party :)

Yep, I hear you on the staying in/avoiding the crowds thing.  Even in my younger days NYE was a big rip off; the pubs and clubs you usually went to charged a fortune to get in (often without putting anything different on, they just cashed in on the fact that lots of people wanted to go out).  I think just this last week, being at home, being poorly, usually I can keep the loneliness at bay by keeping busy but I've not been able to so it's kind of smothered me a bit.  One more day of holiday and then we're back to normal, more or less.

Anyway - I hope you had your dinner in the end :)  Happy New Year xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 01, 2018, 02:47:08 AM
Happy New Year, Tupp and Amber!

Sending you both all peace, all comfort, all health and all hope for 2018.

Tupp, hope the cold and the isolation both vanish soon. And it's wonderful to hear you opening to the idea of new work and new "claiming" of the idea of happiness for yourself. Whatever shape those take, it's so good to share your imaginings. Nobody deserves it more.

Amber, I'm loving the thought of your cozy likewise "claimed" peaceful night. I can smell the woodsmoke and imagine the pleasure of anticipating Holly's gathering. That must mean so much to you. I hope the house is soon filled with laughter and the warmth of others, but "just enough."

love,
Hops

Happy New Year, Hops!  I hope 2018 is a great one for you.  And for pooch, as well :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 01, 2018, 05:28:22 AM
I decided to make my New Year focus on not numbing myself with TV and internet.  It is already proving difficult lol.  I woke up feeling sad and alone and immediately wanted to put the TV on.  When I didn't do that, I then found myself wanting to go online and check numerous websites, forums, Facebook and so on.  I resisted.  I got dressed and cleared out all the rubbish and recycling that's accumlated over Christmas.  I've been clearing out cupboards and have got things that need to go to the charity shop so I bagged those up and lined them by the door so that I can grab a bag each time we go out and drop it off.  I put some old towels out in the van to soak up the water that's got in through the leaky bits.  I felt so sad when I was in the van - I had such high hopes for fun and adventure and life changing experiences when we bought that and it hasn't happened.  I'm doing paperwork now (or I will be after I finish writing this up :) ).  Life feels quiet and empty.  I still feel very run down after this cold; the viral bit of it seems to keep flaring up so I've got the achy bones and feverish bits but the sneezing and coughing has subsided.  I'm still not drinking coffee, which is good (although I have to say I really feel like one at the minute).

I can see that I've really got to find ways to fill the spaces in my life with things that I enjoy - people, places, experiences - and not just things that numb me up so I don't notice the loneliness quite so much.  And I can see it's going to be hard.  I feel quite tearful.  But it can only be a good thing in the long run so onwards and upwards :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 01, 2018, 05:40:13 AM
And I ordered a paper shredder!  I really like the idea of watching a machine rip all now defunct paperwork to pieces and then setting fire to it :)  Lol xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 01, 2018, 02:39:33 PM
It's been a long and lonely day.  I hadn't realised how much I was masking with my TV and internet use.  I've been quite tearful all day, very tired (had a long nap this afternoon).  Focusing on tidying the flat and getting on top of paperwork is helping; the flat is much cleaner and tidier, which I like, and I've caught up on some paperwork today that's been waiting for a while - nothing urgent, but just stuff that was sitting on my desk looking at me.  I have felt the loneliness very acutely but this is good, this is what's going to make me push forward and change things.  We're hopefully visiting friends tomorrow, they've been poorly as well so it's not definite yet but hopefully if everyone's well enough we'll get out for a bit.  I might try to get out to see a film on Wednesday.

Something that has been good is I went through my son's financial situation over the last few days.  There are various things I need to do when he turns 16 in a few weeks' time.  My mum had sent another note about sending him money (which he's said he doesn't want) and I have always felt very inferior in that regard; my mum has loads of cash and we've always lived on a relatively low income and I've gone without a lot in order to put money away for him.  I was totting up and he's got:
Three savings accounts with a total of around 5,000 in them (about $6,750, I believe) - it's not a fortune but it's enough to pay for his next private assessment if he needs it (it might be funded but I'm still waiting to hear), pay for the flooring and some new furniture for his room (and for him to have his own laptop as he'll be a grown up!) and some money for days out and holidays.  It's not a bad amount considering we've always lived on less than the average wage.
He's also got a small healthcare plan; it doesn't cover a lot but it's just a bit of reassurance as things with the NHS get worse, plus they have on phone advice from GPs and counsellors so they're good to talk things through with and bounce ideas of off which is helpful at times.
A small pension - it is small and it will need to be added to as he gets older but at least it's there and it will mean a bit extra for him in his elder years.
A trust fund which is especially for people with learning difficulties - when I die my life insurance pays into the trust fund and it's managed for him by a specialist team (it's all done through a charity so quite cost effective and it's well protected).  It means that unscrupulous family members can't exploit him and it can be kept separate from any benefits he's entitled to so won't affect any claims that are put in for him.

I do feel quite chuffed.  It does feel that we are coming to the end of an era.  I don't feel it should all be down to me to look after him now.  When they're children it's different but turning 16 is a big milestone and we're moving into young adult territory now.  I am really proud of the job I've done with him.  He's a lovely kid, and I know everyone thinks that about their kids but he's kind hearted, well mannered, eager to learn and he loves to laugh :)  He loves music (and one of my other resolutions is to take him to more live gigs this year) and he's up for trying things - the ballet was a big success so I'm hoping to sort out a trip to The Royal Opera House later this year to see a live ballet - very exciting and he's just generally well balanced and happy.  He hasn't had the adult based crap to deal with that I'd had to wade through and he hasn't spent his childhood frightened and alone, and walking on eggshells to keep people happy.  Financially I've done alright by him; in fact I'd say I've done well considering the relatively small amount we've had to work with.  I feel good when I look at him.  I've done a good job and he's turned out alright.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on January 01, 2018, 04:51:30 PM
You should feel very chuffed, Tupp!
I am blown away by the amount you've squirreled away for him given your very tight constraints.
You have used love as the fuel for frugality and efficiency and look what that does. Bravo, Mum, bravo.

You've done such a wonderful job and hands down, you've been an amazing mum.

Friends of mine, dear ones, adopted a little boy with similar issues and the thing I recall about him most was what a happy, confident young man he became. Knowing so solidly he was loved, he'd become someone very similar to how you describe your son. I know the cell-level love he got from them and it's clear you've given your boy the same. It's beyond any price.

It's taken me a year of my new job --minor a major plumbing, tree take down, and auto repair--to acquire a similar amount in my savings. I know what the effort was for me and I didn't have a child at home. Wow.

Any chance you could search out second-hand or repurposed flooring and furnishings? I've done so well with the Habitat for Humanity store here. Gorgeous new big window for my back room for $75. Furniture I've never wanted brand-new...who needs the formaldehyde. Likewise, computers...there are so many perfectly good reconditioned or used ones available.

I feel an urge to help you protect and continue building that little nest egg. Hope you can!

Your lonely tears this week have made sense but it sounds as though in a way you've honored them. By letting them flow while still taking the steps to lovingly tidy your home. That's the act of someone who knows that "this too shall pass."

I share your hopes for your new year, as we cannot rule out the possibility of good things ALSO happening! Difficult things are part of living but I know I'm starting to see that I can be more open to the good. May unexpected good flood you this year....

love,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 02, 2018, 01:45:24 AM
You should feel very chuffed, Tupp!
I am blown away by the amount you've squirreled away for him given your very tight constraints.
You have used love as the fuel for frugality and efficiency and look what that does. Bravo, Mum, bravo.

You've done such a wonderful job and hands down, you've been an amazing mum.

Friends of mine, dear ones, adopted a little boy with similar issues and the thing I recall about him most was what a happy, confident young man he became. Knowing so solidly he was loved, he'd become someone very similar to how you describe your son. I know the cell-level love he got from them and it's clear you've given your boy the same. It's beyond any price.

It's taken me a year of my new job --minor a major plumbing, tree take down, and auto repair--to acquire a similar amount in my savings. I know what the effort was for me and I didn't have a child at home. Wow.

Any chance you could search out second-hand or repurposed flooring and furnishings? I've done so well with the Habitat for Humanity store here. Gorgeous new big window for my back room for $75. Furniture I've never wanted brand-new...who needs the formaldehyde. Likewise, computers...there are so many perfectly good reconditioned or used ones available.

I feel an urge to help you protect and continue building that little nest egg. Hope you can!

Your lonely tears this week have made sense but it sounds as though in a way you've honored them. By letting them flow while still taking the steps to lovingly tidy your home. That's the act of someone who knows that "this too shall pass."

I share your hopes for your new year, as we cannot rule out the possibility of good things ALSO happening! Difficult things are part of living but I know I'm starting to see that I can be more open to the good. May unexpected good flood you this year....

love,
Hops

Thanks, Hops :)  I did feel better when I woke up this morning - we had a SuperMoon here last night (do you get the same moon cycles we do?  I know that's a really dumb question but I was thinking about it last night and realised I didn't know :) ).  But yep, I am chuffed with how much I've been able to put away and how many things for the future I've sent up - not the useless bag of shite my mother would have everyone believe I am :) I can hunt for bargains for the laptop and desk for him (which is pretty much all he needs) - the flooring's not too expensive anyway and we don't need a huge amount as his room isn't enormous.  They do Lego floor vinyl, can you believe that?  Lol, it looks amazing (it's pictures of Lego on floor vinyl, not actual Lego, my sister was worried I'd hurt my feet if I went into his room without shoes on :) ) so I want to get him that as he's Lego mad.  It's not terribly expensive and we can take it with us if we move.  I will continue to build the nest; if he gets much more put by it will affect his benefits so I need to spend a bit of it (without wasting it).  I need to look into whether I can pay more into his pension without it causing problems when he changes from child to adult benefits.  It was a good thing to sit and take stock of.  I will keep the news to myself in other circles, though, I have learnt in the past that other people are not always pleased when something goes well so I shall smile quietly to myself.  Lol xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 02, 2018, 01:51:20 AM
Just saw the newspaper headlines that the SuperMoon was seen around the world so you can ignore that question ;) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on January 02, 2018, 09:25:40 AM
Your sister worried you'd hurt your feet on the Legos mat. 🤔
That's too cute.
😋

I'm sorry your mother's sabotage and false accusations come up for you.

She's still slandering and reaching out, so it's going to happen.  That you keep forging ahead, making plans, managing your lives and resources so well is an amazing testament to your strength, resilience, and abilities.

Good luck choosing a desk and computer for your son.  It's an exciting milestone.

You're a good parent, Tupp.  Your son is lucky you're there for him.

Lighter


Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on January 02, 2018, 09:36:17 AM
Ahh I get it. If son has too many assets he'd be disqualified from receiving benefits.
That is truly too risky for your situation.

For the same reason, not having any idea how ill my D may be at the time I die or whether treatment has stablized her, I put my assets into what is called an Asset Protection Trust. It's structured as a Special Needs Trust (as parents often do for disabled children). Its purpose is to prevent a house or any cash from being counted against her in an application for some kinds of benefits (only ones I know she's received are food stamps, but anything could be happening with her and I wouldn't know it).

Basically, the government can't take from her (either directly or using it as a penalty) what I'll leave her, because officially it belongs to the trust, not to an individual.

Jeez, your boy is lucky to have such a savvy, strategic thinking mum. I think you're wise to keep it to yourself, as envy is the ugliest and you don't need to share the info anyway, it's private.

I missed the supermoon but am asking myself, how have I lived so long without knowing about Lego linoleum?  :D  (I know it's actually vinyl but I liked the alliteration.) So COOL. Will it be a surprise for him?

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on January 02, 2018, 10:01:16 AM
LEGOS....

Tupps, does son also like the micro blocks? Logan, the little grandson is 10 now. He's moving on from legos and already has quite a few. Mike, as he characteristicly did, bought kazillions of legos - partly for Logan, but mostly for himself. My "big kid".

I would be happy to send you most of the collection.  :D    :o

If, of course, you have the space for them and think he would enjoy them. I'll keep some here for Logan, but like most young families, those kids are so active & busy... they don't have much free time too just come hang out at Mawmaw's.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 02, 2018, 01:19:55 PM
Your sister worried you'd hurt your feet on the Legos mat. 🤔
That's too cute.
😋

I'm sorry your mother's sabotage and false accusations come up for you.

She's still slandering and reaching out, so it's going to happen.  That you keep forging ahead, making plans, managing your lives and resources so well is an amazing testament to your strength, resilience, and abilities.

Good luck choosing a desk and computer for your son.  It's an exciting milestone.

You're a good parent, Tupp.  Your son is lucky you're there for him.

Lighter

Lighter, I know, I did laugh, I think she had visions of me on my hands and knees building a floor out of Lego bricks :)  I think son would like that idea, mind you!

Thank you for your kind words.  I do feel like a good parent, I must say.  When he was younger my self esteem was so low I honestly thought he'd be better off being adopted.  I really didn't feel I was good enough for him.  I'm glad that's changed :)

Yes, my mum's an idiot; I do try to keep focused on what I'm doing and consign her to the bin.  Silly, irresponsible woman that she is.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 02, 2018, 01:28:27 PM
Ahh I get it. If son has too many assets he'd be disqualified from receiving benefits.
That is truly too risky for your situation.

For the same reason, not having any idea how ill my D may be at the time I die or whether treatment has stablized her, I put my assets into what is called an Asset Protection Trust. It's structured as a Special Needs Trust (as parents often do for disabled children). Its purpose is to prevent a house or any cash from being counted against her in an application for some kinds of benefits (only ones I know she's received are food stamps, but anything could be happening with her and I wouldn't know it).

Basically, the government can't take from her (either directly or using it as a penalty) what I'll leave her, because officially it belongs to the trust, not to an individual.

Jeez, your boy is lucky to have such a savvy, strategic thinking mum. I think you're wise to keep it to yourself, as envy is the ugliest and you don't need to share the info anyway, it's private.

I missed the supermoon but am asking myself, how have I lived so long without knowing about Lego linoleum?  :D  (I know it's actually vinyl but I liked the alliteration.) So COOL. Will it be a surprise for him?

hugs
Hops

Lol, I think Lego lino is a relatively new addition to the Lego range; I hadn't seen it before this (last) year and I generally am made aware of all things Lego related very quickly!  It will be a surprise for him; I am slowly working to clear out his current room and re-organise things.  I've painted the room that will be his and hopefully will get the curtain poles up this week.  When the flooring is being laid my cunning plan is to distract him with a new computer game (he will shut himself away in my room with the computer and will need to be hauled out) so I'm hoping once the flooring is down I can get all the furniture moved in, new desk assembled (with lamp and laptop on it) and curtains up so we can have a 'Ta Da' moment :)  He'll be chuffed when he sees it :)

Yes the trust you've set up for your D is the same principle as the one I have for J; I've nominated people (trusted friends) to request items or monies on his behalf and included clear lists of acceptable expenditure and a long list of relatives who are not allowed anywhere near the process.  Each request goes before a panel and has to be agreed in writing.  It's done via a well established charity who have a good reputation (and thanks to social media bad experiences are quickly broadcast and I've not found a negative report on them yet).  It's not counted as income (similar to your D's) so won't affect any claims he makes.  I can't pay into it now, though, it's only activated when I die which is why I don't want his nest egg to get too much bigger now.   I think paying a bit more into his pension is probably the best idea, I just want to double check and make sure I'm not breaching any terms (it's all so complicated and it's easy to miss something so I like to be sure).  I won't go mad though, I do like the feeling of security of knowing there's a bit in there 'just in case' :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 02, 2018, 01:30:45 PM
LEGOS....

Tupps, does son also like the micro blocks? Logan, the little grandson is 10 now. He's moving on from legos and already has quite a few. Mike, as he characteristicly did, bought kazillions of legos - partly for Logan, but mostly for himself. My "big kid".

I would be happy to send you most of the collection.  :D    :o

If, of course, you have the space for them and think he would enjoy them. I'll keep some here for Logan, but like most young families, those kids are so active & busy... they don't have much free time too just come hang out at Mawmaw's.

Oh Skep, that is so kind of you, but he is only a Lego fan.  It's the autism, one interest only, to the point of obsession, and nothing else, lol.  It was Thomas the Tank Engine for years and then we did have a bit of a period where he liked Thomas and Lego, although Thomas was still the firm favourite.  Gradually the Lego took over and he probably has enough now to build a house :)  It's a lovely offer, though, thank you so much (and yes, you're right, they do just grow so fast and before you know it they don't want to play anymore :( ) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 02, 2018, 01:40:30 PM
We went to visit a friend today, quite a long train ride in both directions, and it occurred to me that rail travel is a very good way for us both to relax.  There's literally nothing to do but read or look out of the window.  Nice and warm, comfy, my son listens to his music and reads, we can take food with us or buy on the way depending on where we are going, I think this might be a good thing to look into doing regularly as a way of taking a break?  A good couple of hours to rest followed by maybe a show or a film or a decent gig, a hotel for the night - cheap but comfy - and a nice big breakfast before heading back the next day.  Our neighbour will feed the cat for us and as it would only be one night I wouldn't feel bad about leaving her at home.  I think this could be a good way to build in some r and r time! xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on January 02, 2018, 02:52:02 PM
I loooooove trains. Rolling wombs. (The nonbiological kind.) Great idea to use a train trip as R&R!
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 03, 2018, 05:32:47 AM
I loooooove trains. Rolling wombs. (The nonbiological kind.) Great idea to use a train trip as R&R!

Lol, never thought of it as a rolling womb before and now can't get the idea out of my head!  Perhaps I need to invest in an adult sized babygro whilst on board :)  Probably a bit too weird :)

My little plan to focus on my flat and the paperwork first each day is paying off dividends!  I was up very early this morning because it's so windy - and got up to a clean, tidy flat that was comfortable and warm, and enjoyed a cuppa and a bowl of porridge.  I settled down to do some paperwork; got a load of emails out of the way, made some phone calls, checked some information I needed to clarify and sent off two unpleasant but necessary bits in relation to son's healthcare.  Those things have been on my mind for weeks; took me ten minutes to sort and that horrible feeling of dread that I carry with me has lifted.  I do think I'm experiencing some sort of PTSD type symptoms when I have to deal with anything to do with my son and 'other people' (I know I've mentioned this before) so I got very anxious and jittery beforehand.  I can feel that adrenaline rush subsiding now but because I've got the boring but necessary stuff out of the way I can have a drink and something to eat and everything else on my to do list today is enjoyable (or at least not horrible!).  How funny that recognising what stressed me and getting it done works so much better for me than endlessly managing my stress.  Seems so obvious now it's happened :)

Anyway, I'm off to enjoy some tea and toast :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 05, 2018, 04:30:25 AM
Very stressed last night because of an email regarding a complaint I've put in.  The smallest thing now with these people sets me off.  I'm going to book an appointment with the doctor asking if she can write me a letter explaining that dealing with the public sector is exacerbating my stress related health problems.  At least I'll be able to send that off to people every time I say no to a meeting.

The paperwork is going well, as is the work on the flat.  I'm getting a little bit more done each day.  One thing I realised this morning is that paperwork tasks are often less arduous than I think they're going to be.  I think perhaps I should put off checking messages, emails, post until I have an hour when I can sit down and deal with it - either by replying immediately to something quickly or by reading through something and writing a list of what I'll need to do to get something done.  That way it won't be floating in my head for days as 'something' I'll have to deal with (which often turns out to be less work that I thought it would be).
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 06, 2018, 07:26:43 AM
In the midst of my pre period mood drop (which is severe but I'm trying now to just accept it's hormones and work through it) so decided to use the post as a 'good things to notice' space.

Woke up in a clean, warm bed and a clean, warm flat.
Hot and cold water on tap, nice soak in the bath, plenty of food in fridge, cupboards and freezer.  Choices of what to drink.
Plenty of clean clothes.  It's stopped raining :)
Unexpected email from an old friend, couple of text messages from people.
Walked into village, dropped off bag to charity shop (about twenty bags to take down, aiming for one a day).
Collected son's meds, pharmacy staff always nice and friendly.
Noticed son has learnt where to cross road safely without me having to tell him and when people were coming towards us on a narrow footpath he automatically stood to the side to let them get past him.
Picked up some bits to take to the cinema this evening (picnic tea and chocolate).
Lunch is cooking at the moment.  Enjoying some dark chocolate that a friend gave me for Christmas.
Laundry done.
Time this afternoon to get a few bits done around the flat and probably a bit more paperwork before we go out to cinema.  Son is looking forward to cinema trip (I will probably nap :) ).
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 07, 2018, 08:31:51 AM
I mentioned a while ago a 'friend' who got in touch at Christmas after many years of very little contact between us and I messaged her back and told her, politely, not to get in touch (she wanted to phone).  I didn't get a reply (which I was glad of because I don't like it when people try to keep in touch after you tell them you don't want to lol).  She just messaged me on Facebook saying she felt I pushed her away (she stopped returning my calls; a few years ago I wrote to her and told her I'd missed her and so on, she rang and left a message, I called back and left a message, I never heard from her again, etc etc), she feels I've pushed others away (others - as far as I know she doesn't know anyone else I know) and that I don't have to 'go it alone'.  I'm angry.  I feel she's created the situation (which devastated me, to be honest) and now she's blaming me for it.  I've messaged back and told her - not politely this time - what I think.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 07, 2018, 11:38:28 AM
This got me thinking about friendship.

If you don't return my calls (texts/emails) - then we're not friends.
If you don't ring from time to time for a chat - we're not friends.
If, after four years of extreme health problems, you still don't know how ill my son is/has been - we're not friends.

I found myself questioning myself.  I'm not an impossibly demanding friend.  I don't take constantly without giving back.  There are times when I'm not terribly available, but there is a good reason for that (my son) and once the situation with him improves, I get back to normal.  I'll explain why I can't be available right now.  I'm thoughtful - I remember what's going on with people, I call or message to ask about their doctor's appointment, driving test, poorly mum, whatever.  I contact people on their birthdays.  I'm not so big on Christmas, but I find Christmas over commercialised and tend to focus on people who don't have anyone else at that time of year.  But I did stop being so available to people who only phone when they want something or need a shoulder to cry on.  I stopped arranging everything I did to suit other people and started asking people to change their plans to accommodate us more easily.  I stopped ringing people who didn't call me back.  I stopped making a big effort for people who made little or no effort for me.  I have changed as time's gone on.  I don't have the patience to listen to people stressing about their curtains/manicure/car valeting service being substandard.  I don't care whether or not someone has a handbag to go with their shoes for the wedding they're going to at the weekend.  I don't enjoy drinking until I pass out anymore (which in turn means I don't particularly want to watch other people drink until they pass out).  And so on.  I'm a good friend to those who make the effort back but I've stopped putting in the hours with those who don't.

In other news - I've spent most of the day making candles :)  Lol, or more specifically, melting down stubs of candles to make new ones.  I don't like chucking things away if I can squeeze a bit more use out of them so I've melted down dozens of little bits of candles to make about twenty new ones :)  While everything's been melting away (they're different colours and scents so I do them in batches) I've been clearing out kitchen cupboards.  I've got more things bagged up for the charity shop.  I've got a pile of odd bits of bags of lentils and various grains that I'm going to use up in meals this week.  I've got very clean surfaces and I've rearranged some cupboards so that the kitchen runs a little bit more smoothly.  Felt good.  Felt nice. :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 07, 2018, 04:56:59 PM
I realised as I was cleaning and clearing away that I have kept (often on display) a lot of things because I want my 'stuff' to say something about me to other people when they come into my home.  The educational posters on the wall show I home educate my son and I do it properly.  The displays of certificates and art work show I do other 'stuff' with him.  The recipe books, food processor, slow cooker and so on show I cook and don't feed him nothing but chips.  The first aid and epilepsy posters show I know what to do in an emergency.  And so on and so on.  So much of it is done through fear; it's not there because I need to see it or refer to it constantly, it's there to prove to other people that I'm not a bad mum and I know what I'm doing.  Well bollocks to that, I don't need to keep proving I'm doing a good job by displaying my stuff, I know I'm doing a good job and everyone else can lump it.  I've binned the epilepsy posters; I've coped with every one of his seizures myself and I've never once looked at those posters while I'm doing it.  I've taken down the big display of certificates and put them in an album.  I've binned a lot of the educational posters that aren't actually for anything he's learning about any more.

I've put a lot of my kitchen stuff away in cupboards instead of having it all out on the worktops (to show that I cook and use all this stuff).  Half of it I very rarely use so I'm taking that to the charity shop (I think there's going to be more of my stuff at the charity shop than there is in my flat soon).  I've kept the four recipe books that I use most often and donated the rest.  I've got more cupboards and drawers to do in the kitchen and quite a bit more in other rooms but it already feels so much clearer and I'm liking the big spaces on the walls :)  All in all it has been a very good day :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on January 07, 2018, 06:23:07 PM
Both of these posts are extraordinary and to my eye wonderful, Tupp!

The first, just hearing your dignity and calm resolve that considerate, reciprocal relationships are the kind you're now choosing to be open to in your life, and that you're just going to calmly turn away from the one-sided parasitic ones...is a joy. You don't even sound worked up, indignant or angry...another cool thing. You just sound matter of fact and as though you are embracing the limits of having expectations of others, and setting expectations for being your own friend instead.

That is what clears the heart-space for healthier friendships! When it's a relaxed yet meaningful commitment to your own dignity (and all the decisions that will flow from that dignity) it's so much more likely that less time will be spent keeping score and more time just naturally (and lightly) stepping away form dead-end attachments and smoothly (and lightly) stepping toward happier connections.

Love it, love it.

And I loved like CRAZY reading your realization that you'd created a "defensive display" of responsible motherhood, out of trauma. And you've now BINNED IT! How lovely (seriously, it made me grin ear to ear) to imagine you staring at all that stage-setting and going, naaaah, I'm going to enjoy my home and not live on a stage in terror of an imaginary theater critic.

That is just huge. I hope the ripples go on and on....the symbolism of not pretending, not feeling like a fake, not feeling that you don't deserve a normal home decor, normal friendships, normal joys...

The bin-the-posters and take back your space gesture just seems to me to sum up healthy self love.

Kudos!
 :D

Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on January 07, 2018, 10:28:04 PM
You're dialed in to yourself, and those around you, Tupp.

Cleaning house...... you're interior world and exterior.

When our own opinions matter more, or as much, as our fears or need for approval we SEE more clearly.

We take stock, and let things go. 

We accept things we've struggled with, and put them down. 

This frees us to explore and choose other things. Hopefully  hard earned wisdom shows itself, and guides us on our way.

I really enjoyed reading your posts, Tupp.  Your posts make me feel steadier too.

Lighter



Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 08, 2018, 07:40:24 AM
Hops, thank you - I do actually feel very angry and worked up about this particular friend, I think I'm just hiding it in the post, lol, but I know myself well enough now to know the anger usually covers hurt and this lady was my best friend.  I loved her, loved spending time with her, loved talking to her and being around her.  Her life changed - for the better - and I get that circumstances mean that people can't continue to do the same things for ever but she literally dropped me from her life the minute things changed for her - just stopped returning my calls, never rang me, didn't do text/email/Facebook type convos (and I am firmly in the camp of preferring talking to people but if people don't call or do anything else then it's hard to stay in touch!).  Eventually I gave up and I was so devastated about the whole thing.  It's taken me years to get over it but she popped up before Christmas and I politely told her not to worry about getting in touch (I'm past it all now, too much has happened).  And she emailed again blaming me for her not contacting me.  So I was/am angry about that but I know at some point I'll have a good cry because I missed her for a long time.  If she'd said "sorry, I have been crap about keeping in touch but here's my number, give me a call if you want to" I probably would have phoned her again.  But people blaming me for things they do is a pet peeve of mine.  Anyway - felt good to say what I needed to say, be real about it and yes, like you say, door is open for equal, welcoming friendships, give and take, fun and laughter, and all of that :)

And yes, I am smiling about all the binning that's been going on :)  It's funny when you see something clearly for the first time and it's suddenly so obvious but I can see how I've put stuff everywhere to prove what I'm doing with him.  That probably partly stems from the horrible police officer who came round to tell me they wouldn't be taking any action about my stepdad and then wrote a nasty report and sent it to social services, claiming I wasn't educating my son and her evidence base was a lack of educational material at the property.  It was devastating to me, particularly coming on the back of her more or less calling me a liar (and there was masses of educational material in my home, I counted his books and he had 326 at the time but the silly prejudicial bint failed to spot them.  Probably should have thrown them at her :) ).

Lighter, yes, when our own opinions matter more, that is a good T shirt slogan, I think :)  Definitely the way I'm feeling now, it's about what I think/want/feel, not about everybody else :)  I'm glad to read other people enjoy reading my waffle :)

I do feel quite anxious and jittery today; whether that's a fearful reaction to my chucking out my defences or whether it's a menopausal thing I don't know but I'm just ignoring it anyway.  I am carrying on with the decluttering.  My landing becomes a bit of a dumping ground with things waiting to go out of the flat and things waiting to be put away somewhere in it.  I've cleared it all; there's a line of bags to go to the charity shop and some stuff went out into the shed (I don't want it anymore so will put it on Freecycle but need an afternoon to put everything on and get rid of it en masse, I think).  Everything else that was staying has been put away somewhere and I've chucked out odd little things that I hang on to even though I don't really know what they are.  Random bits of plastic or screws that have obviously fallen off something but if they were essential something would have fallen apart, presumably, and I'd know where they came from.  So they've gone in the bin and I've bagged up various little bits and pieces that I keep because they might be useful one day.  They're cheap little bits so if I did find I needed something one day it's easy enough to buy it and I daresay I'd be able to find a friend with a drawerful of the very same thing.  Lol.

I do feel clearer headed, stronger, somehow.  Keen to crack on and get more done now. xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on January 08, 2018, 08:42:00 AM
Oh yes. I remember about that former friend and your brave/wise/dignified decision to not pick up that one-way relationship again. I went through a similar thing when I "broke up" with the special friend I was soooo enthused about, who couldn't be bothered to pick up the phone or reply to an email and had gotten so languid about friendship maintenance that it'd started to really, really hurt. One day I just decided not to hurt that way any more and withdrew (even while also telling her why).

Wowsers for us both, eh? I agree with Lighter. When our own opinions matter more or as much as our fears or need for approval....

Now if only I could clean up my clutter and organize myself the way you are, Tupp!

(Lighter, I believe you need to start a line of self-esteem cookies. Like fortune cookies, except healthier. You do wonderfully pithy summary statements, imo...)

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 08, 2018, 09:26:22 AM
Oh yes. I remember about that former friend and your brave/wise/dignified decision to not pick up that one-way relationship again. I went through a similar thing when I "broke up" with the special friend I was soooo enthused about, who couldn't be bothered to pick up the phone or reply to an email and had gotten so languid about friendship maintenance that it'd started to really, really hurt. One day I just decided not to hurt that way any more and withdrew (even while also telling her why).

Wowsers for us both, eh? I agree with Lighter. When our own opinions matter more or as much as our fears or need for approval....

Now if only I could clean up my clutter and organize myself the way you are, Tupp!

(Lighter, I believe you need to start a line of self-esteem cookies. Like fortune cookies, except healthier. You do wonderfully pithy summary statements, imo...)

Hugs
Hops

Yes, I remember you having a similar thing with a friend, Hops, I get the circumstances/time/situations change but I've never demanded someone continue a friendship with me that just isn't practical anymore; it's more about adapting to those circumstances.  If someone's life changes so much that the only time they have for me is the two minutes a year it takes for them to write me a Christmas card then I would prefer to leave that friendship completely, but I do it without wishing them harm or any hurt (even though it hurts me a great deal but I just don't wish bad things for people).  But when that person then blames me for them withdrawing their contact my buttons get pushed! (and I have some people in my life where contact is only a brief message for birthday/Christmas, but that's generally situations with more distant family members who I have just that tiny bit of contact with and it's never been any more).  These aren't the people I pour my heart and soul out to or would race through the night to be with if they needed a friend.  I'm a good friend and people should treat me as such! :) 

Hopsie if I lived near you (even just on the same continent!) I would gladly come and organise and declutter your home - pooch could help :)  The sense of weight coming off is huge (and quite tiring, funnily enough, I am feeling in need of a little nap now).  But it is a nice feeling of release and lessening of need to hold on, I suppose (for me, anyway).

I've had the idea to start working on a kind of 'This Is Your Life' scrapbook for my son's eighteenth birthday - it's a couple of years away yet but it will probably take me that long to get everything together - just a nice retelling of his life, with pictures - this is where we lived, these are people that we spent time with, this is what you liked to play with/read/watch on TV.  I'm just conscious that I'm starting to, not forget things, but the memories are getting a little further away.  I went through some photos of him when he was about three and I kind of can't imagine that cute, long haired, cheeky faced little boy when I look at this big, shaved headed, ADDC T shirt wearing bloke sitting in my front room now.  My son's memory for facts and events is phenomenal - I can show him a picture and he knows where we were at the time and can often remember an event if prompted - but he needs the prompt so it would be nice for him to have a book of prompts, I think, all done up nicely on good paper (I'll have to work on my IT skills because I think probably doing it all on the computer would be best, with some little handwritten notes and drawings to embellish it would be nice).  Anyway, a little project to be getting on with :)

Yes, second the idea of self esteem cookies as a business venture for Lighter :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on January 08, 2018, 05:23:23 PM
Tupps, it sounds like you're going through a life make-over. A remodeling of Tupps and her public "face"... along with what is prioritized on the internal slide-show.

A fresh new look - better function - nothing in excess that is just "taking up space".
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 09, 2018, 05:51:49 AM
Tupps, it sounds like you're going through a life make-over. A remodeling of Tupps and her public "face"... along with what is prioritized on the internal slide-show.

A fresh new look - better function - nothing in excess that is just "taking up space".

Yes a life make over is a good way to look at it, Skep :)  It feels good :)

I'm carrying on with the declutter and reorganise programme and it is really reducing my stress levels!  This can only be a good thing.  I had paperwork that needed putting away yesterday.  Some of my files are bulging now so I went through the stuff that needed to go away.  Some didn't really need to be kept - so much is online these days and I get sent things from the bank, for example, that are pages and pages of terms and conditions, the majority of which doesn't apply to my very modest income as it's all very simple.  If I need to know something specific I can look it up so I binned a lot of that.  I went through the other things I was putting away and took out everything that's more than a year old, save for one or two bits that are proof of odd things that's worth hanging on to.  I got out all the paperwork relating to my son's dad and his endless efforts to dodge child support and it's all gone on the pile to be shredded.  Very freeing (he doesn't pay anything and I'm not forcing my son to have a DNA test against his wishes to satisfy that arsehole so we don't need the paper mountain any more).

There were a couple of small jobs that I thought would be quite time consuming but when I sat down and read it properly it was actually all quite simple and has been sorted out by email.  The fuzz of stuff cleared and I found I had less to do than I thought.

I try and sort out meals, meds, laundry and other essential bits and pieces first thing so that it's done and out of the way.  It sometimes takes half the morning to sort everything out.  But with my now 'essential items only' cupboards and clear work surfaces the whole day was organised in an hour.  The flat is relatively tidy (by my standards, anyway) and I've sorted out the plaster above the windows now (I haven't been able to put any curtains up because the plasterboard above the windows was so old it wouldn't take any fastenings so I've had to sort all of that out and put up battens to attach the poles to).  I just need to paint the battens and the window areas now and can then get the poles (and curtains!) up.  A friend has offered to help with the poles and whilst clearing out drawers I found really good heavy duty screws that I didn't know I had to I should be able to fix them securely.  Once the curtains are all sorted I can switch my attention to the mold in the bathroom and whilst that's being done I should be able to sort flooring for son's room and get that finished :)

That in turn will mean I will have a proper sitting room (son is currently using it as a bedroom).  The paperwork, computer and office type stuff is all crammed into my room at the moment - that can all go in sitting room.  The large table and chairs in kitchen (too big for the space) can go into lounge and I've seen a small and inexpensive breakfast bar type thing that will be perfect for bowls of cereal and sipping coffee :)  So we should end up with a nice, spacious, uncluttered flat.  I can't wait :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on January 09, 2018, 09:02:04 AM
Ohhhhh.... I'm reading your post while sipping morning coffee, Tupp.  Such a satisfying read as I line up another round of decluterring and organizing efficiently.  The idea of more space,less stuff.....very appealing.  Very. 

I'm almost giddy thinking about having half full closets with easy to find items......
that bring me joy.

Yes.

You're inspiring posts are wonderful to read!

Light

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 09, 2018, 01:57:28 PM
Ohhhhh.... I'm reading your post while sipping morning coffee, Tupp.  Such a satisfying read as I line up another round of decluterring and organizing efficiently.  The idea of more space,less stuff.....very appealing.  Very. 

I'm almost giddy thinking about having half full closets with easy to find items......
that bring me joy.

Yes.

You're inspiring posts are wonderful to read!

Light

Thank, Lighter :)  I did find the kitchen so much easier without loads of stuff in loads of cupboards.  Just easy to pick out what we need.  The other thing I noticed is that I feel guilt when I see things I have but I don't use - slow cooker, food processor, a whole load of thermal cups/water bottles, that sort of thing.  So I've taken them all down the charity shop and now I don't feel guilty when I open the doors :)  Thank you for saying the posts are inspiring!  Very nice of you :) xx

In other news - I have contacted a psychotherapist for help in dealing with my stress levels.  I have just kicked off at a social worker on the phone.  As well as the clutter clearing and keeping on top of the day to day stuff (which is going well) I currently have in orbit -

One medical appointment with a genetic specialist - this starts the process to find out whether my son has a terminal genetic condition.  Fifteen months in now and this is as far as we've got and I've had to fight all the way.

One complaint in with above hospital for taking so long to organise this and other things (the other things are less important but still need to be dealt with). Complaints generally take around eighteen months to go through each different stage and all the work has to come from me.

No college or home tuition provision even finalised in writing yet.  One complaint went in, second one needs to follow. Subject Access Request made so I can see copies of my son's records as what they are claiming and what I know to be true are different and we need to see where this is coming from.

Complaint in about the above lack of provision; second complaint is needed.

Up coming - applying to court for permission to deal with son's money and all his affairs when he turns 16.
Transition from child to adult benefits
Possibly court to force local authority to provide education as they don't seem to be in any hurry to do so.

The social worker phoned about my request for my son's records.  Because my son can't give consent, this man (who he doesn't know) will decide on his behalf and I have to justify why I want the records and why it's in my son's best interests.  This man doesn't have the knowledge to make this decision.  If he makes a decision based on what I tell him, I can easily lie (as my mother has so many times before) and tell him any old nonsense.  If they aren't willing to accept my word for it then they need to go to a suitably qualified medical practitioner who can go through my son's medical records to establish capacity.  I object to having to justify what I'm doing when I'm the only person on the planet who has ever fought for my boy and what he needs.  I explained - angrily - that if anyone we encountered did their job properly I wouldn't need the records as I wouldn't be fighting for things my son is legally entitled to.  This man made two inaccurate statements about my son.  I corrected him.  He refused to be corrected.  This is what I'm up against constantly; an army of people who don't know him but insist they know better than I do.  I had no choice but to tell him I am making complaints and fighting decisions I don't agree with.  This means the records can now magically disappear (this has happened to me before) or they can be sent through so heavily redacted that I can't read them (this has also happened to me before).  So now I have the possibility looming over me that these records won't materialise and so will weaken my case.  Of course, he may send them through - but they have two months to process the application so I might wait two months now before I now either way.

I don't have an issue with people making decisions or making checks - I have an issue with people who don't know or understand the situation, or who have a vested interest in what I do with the information - being involved with the process.

I didn't handle it well and I am aware of that, but equally I am aware that I've had sixteen years of this now and the very thought of these people makes me want to vomit, quite frankly.  All I could think of after I argued with him was killing myself and once that subsided I sat sobbing on the floor for half an hour.  I just can't deal with the stress any more.  However much I organise my home, work on myself, keep my relationships healthy and all the rest of it the interactions with these agencies just send me through the roof.  The thought of dealing with this for the rest of my life fills me with dread.  The thought of no-one being around to deal with this for my son after I'm gone fills me with horror.

Anyway - I have contacted this lady for an appointment in the hope she can help me learn some techniques to help me manage it in the moment.  I feel enormously resentful that I am, once again, spending time and money I don't have on dealing with people I don't want to deal with and having to keep accepting these people who stick to procedure when it suits them (ie, when they can stop me doing something) but ignore it when it means them having to do something to help.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 09, 2018, 02:40:55 PM
Just to update - this is a therapist I haven't used before - I only emailed half an hour ago and she's already got back to me with a date for this Thursday and she's not hideously expensive, either.  I feel relieved that she is available and can see me quickly.  At least if feels like I'm doing something.  I asked a friend to have my son for me.  I find it difficult to ask for help at times like this because often in the past I've had negative or unhelpful responses to requests for help and then I find that even harder to deal with.  It's often easier not to ask because then I don't have to cope with the rejection on top of everything else.  But this friend immediately offered to give me a lift to the clinic and then take the kids out for something to eat and told me just to ring when I need picking up again.  Enormously helpful and so nice of her, and another good thing to come out of it.

I will need to ring the social worker tomorrow and apologise for kicking off; I didn't swear or make any personal insults but he did bear the brunt of my frustrations with many different things and he was just doing what he needs to do to tick the boxes on his forms so I shouldn't have gone off at him like that.  Apology is needed so I will do that tomorrow (office will be shut now).
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 10, 2018, 07:29:29 AM
Woke up this morning even angrier than I went to bed; won't be apologising to anyone for being offended that they have the audacity to question my motives when my record with my son is impeccable, quite frankly.  They happily accepted every word my mum told them despite it all being fabricated but I'm expected to prove myself?  Because I gave birth to him?

Final plan has come through re college education; they have arranged nothing, there's no start date for home provision and they haven't corrected any of the inaccuracies I sent back to them with the draft plan.  They have, in short, done nothing; I could have done the whole thing myself in less than a week and it's taken them eight months to get nowhere.  No option now other than court.  We will definitely be moving; if I'm to work until I drop dead from exhaustion with zero support for my son then I at least want to do it with a couple of friends nearby and a nice seaside to sit by on a sunny day.

With that in mind have undercoated my curtain battens and cleared out a bit more clutter.  Lunch next, then more work on flat and paperwork.  Have discovered a situation with my son's savings account is easier to sort than I thought, which is good.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on January 10, 2018, 09:16:16 AM
Oh (((((((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))))).

I am so very sorry. I'm glad you have a T appointment.

I do think it's good to apologize to the man. When he asked why you needed the records it was a bureaucrat question probably, something he was required to ask. It sounds as though that shoved you right back into feeling helpless, disrespected, unrecognized as a good mother, and re-triggered all the trauma you went through with your mother's sabotage of you....not just regarded your care of your son but your whole life.

You didn't mean to react that way. You were just overwhelmed by that trigger and all the frustration. Somehow, maybe the T can help you de-enemyize the people within the system, despite its maddening ineptitude.

I so hope so. And I'm so very sorry you're dealing with this level of stress. It is not fair.

love to you,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 10, 2018, 10:33:32 AM
Oh (((((((((((((((Tupp))))))))))))))).

I am so very sorry. I'm glad you have a T appointment.

I do think it's good to apologize to the man. When he asked why you needed the records it was a bureaucrat question probably, something he was required to ask. It sounds as though that shoved you right back into feeling helpless, disrespected, unrecognized as a good mother, and re-triggered all the trauma you went through with your mother's sabotage of you....not just regarded your care of your son but your whole life.

You didn't mean to react that way. You were just overwhelmed by that trigger and all the frustration. Somehow, maybe the T can help you de-enemyize the people within the system, despite its maddening ineptitude.

I so hope so. And I'm so very sorry you're dealing with this level of stress. It is not fair.

love to you,
Hops

Hopsie, thank you, all is better!  It's amazing how much can change so quickly.  I was so stuck about which mess to deal with first that I didn't know what to do or how to go about it, so decided to call the college in the area we want to move to to discuss the situation and see whether they even have space at the moment.  The lady was so nice, advised me that they never get full as they're the main provider in the area so can access additional funding without the problems a lot of places have (particularly places around here as we are in a rural area so individual places cover huge areas sometimes).  She told me to apply, they'll invite for interview and then we can all have a chat and see if everything looks good and take it from there.  They can offer him a place provisionally before we move if everyone is in agreement that it's the right course and so on.  I filled everything in online and it's all done!  Such a difference to what we've been dealing with here.  So I feel better for just getting on with something and taking a step in the right direction.  Now getting on with more decluttering :)  And the sun is out! :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on January 10, 2018, 11:10:36 AM
Well that sounds really hopeful and positive!

Good for you for coming up with yet another effort to connect with what you need, despite the previous meltdown. Seriously, GOOD for you, Tupp.

One little...but. But...will you keep the T appointment regardless, and look into some form of group gatherings (therapy, support, whatever you find) that can weave some destressing 3-D support into your life?

The reason I say that is that there will ALWAYS be another trigger or crisis, and I believe you are emotionally exhausted from being so on your own with it all so much of the time. Building community (even with strangers-at-first in some kind of support group) means the next time there's a crisis, you don't need to collapse in fear and despair alone.

You'll have 3-D people to pour it out to, too. And you so deserve this. Honestly, I don't know how you've managed without it so far.

love
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 10, 2018, 02:44:11 PM
Well that sounds really hopeful and positive!

Good for you for coming up with yet another effort to connect with what you need, despite the previous meltdown. Seriously, GOOD for you, Tupp.

One little...but. But...will you keep the T appointment regardless, and look into some form of group gatherings (therapy, support, whatever you find) that can weave some destressing 3-D support into your life?

The reason I say that is that there will ALWAYS be another trigger or crisis, and I believe you are emotionally exhausted from being so on your own with it all so much of the time. Building community (even with strangers-at-first in some kind of support group) means the next time there's a crisis, you don't need to collapse in fear and despair alone.

You'll have 3-D people to pour it out to, too. And you so deserve this. Honestly, I don't know how you've managed without it so far.

love
Hops

T appointment definitely being kept, group situations definitely avoided, have done so many over the years and for me they're draining and tiring - the opposite of what I need!  I am much better with one or two good friends rather than groups of people.  I find support groups are full of people who want to be the focus of the attention and just talk about themselves constantly and it wears me out.

Got lots more paperwork done and have a big pile to go through the shredder.  Bathroom is cleared ready to start scrubbing down and painting tomorrow (it's a very small bathroom so it shouldn't take long and I think it will look lovely when it's finished!).  I feel like what I need to do is suddenly much more manageable - I do think clearing out a lot of this clutter has made a big difference, isn't it funny?  But it just doesn't feel so overwhelming now, I feel like I can see a time when it will be done whereas before it felt more like I would never get to the end of it all.  Feeling happy, overall, which is a big change from yesterday :) Lol xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on January 10, 2018, 06:47:51 PM
So many ups and downs, Tupp, but perseveance pays off.  At least you have another advocate for your son's education options.  Whew.....so glad for you both.

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 11, 2018, 03:10:01 PM
So many ups and downs, Tupp, but perseveance pays off.  At least you have another advocate for your son's education options.  Whew.....so glad for you both.

Lighter

It was nice to get a positive response from someone, Lighter, and they seem very efficient.  The application process is all online, they've emailed back with some login information and will be getting in touch for more details about his health problems (this is all since yesterday) so just the fact that someone has done 'something' has helped :)

Today was good, lots done again, feel very organised and heading in the right direction with things.  The paperwork mountain is under control at the minute, I got some more painting done, I've organised a couple of nice things for us to go and do and generally things seem good.

I went to see the T; I had said in my email to her that I was hoping to learn some stress management techniques to help me not to blow my stack at people but she said this evening that's not really what she does, it's more long term psycho therapy.  I feel very 'done' with talking about my feelings; I know I put a lot on here and I do feel better for having to spoken to someone but, as always, the money and the time and the finding someone to look after my son efforts are stressful (ironically) so I had in my head just to do a few sessions to learn some new techniques rather than getting into another endless quest to figure out what's at the heart of my problems (because to be honest these aren't my problems, it's the lack of help for my son's problems that's the issue and that's not related to what happened to me as a kid.  I don't know anyone with a disabled child who doesn't experience a lot of stress when dealing with the system).  So I think instead I would be better off earmarking that money for going out and doing fun stuff with other people.  I think that would help more than talking about past events again.  So a bit disappointing; she seemed a very good therapist but not what I'm looking for and when I came out I looked at the bar across the road and thought "I could have spent that money on a sitter, a sparkly top and a couple of drinks in there".

Anyway, onwards and upwards.  I think losing the plot has helped anyway, it got things off my chest and focused my mind on getting somewhere where we 'might' get some help (and at the very least won't have my mother mooning around the corner) so we'll see how things go from here xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on January 12, 2018, 10:12:02 AM
Tupp, I yearn to read posts featuring seaside living for you.

Distance from those would harm you, startle and stress you.

Fellowship alive and well in your daily life.  Building on relationships already established.....trusted friends who care and understand.  There is no balm like speaking to those who "get it.". There is no poison like stupid questions asked by people who're lucky enough to walk in ignorance of PD harm and chaos manufacture that will never make sense.  Ever.

Just not having to tell your story again..... imagine. 

::sigh::

I'm no expert, but my buddy is attending a school for meditation......it seems to be doing him a world of good.  Lord knows there's information on the website, for particular kinds of meditation, to address different goals. 

And tapping.... it's still a very good option with consistent results for PTSD, and more. 

You're amazing.  Truly.

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 12, 2018, 11:15:01 AM
Tupp, I yearn to read posts featuring seaside living for you.

Distance from those would harm you, startle and stress you.

Fellowship alive and well in your daily life.  Building on relationships already established.....trusted friends who care and understand.  There is no balm like speaking to those who "get it.". There is no poison like stupid questions asked by people who're lucky enough to walk in ignorance of PD harm and chaos manufacture that will never make sense.  Ever.

Just not having to tell your story again..... imagine. 

::sigh::

I'm no expert, but my buddy is attending a school for meditation......it seems to be doing him a world of good.  Lord knows there's information on the website, for particular kinds of meditation, to address different goals. 

And tapping.... it's still a very good option with consistent results for PTSD, and more. 

You're amazing.  Truly.

Lighter

Lighter, thank you, you are too kind :)  And also amazing :)  As is everyone on here!  Lol :)

Yes, I'd love to be posting more "we did this, we went there, we saw so and so" type posts on here.  I have got myself into head down and get on with it mode.  I'm focusing on cleaning, clearing and getting the flat into a good state so that someone else will love to live in it.  I do need to carry on with other son related things in the meantime - sorting out benefit changes from child to adult things, possibly getting a court order to that I can manage all financial affairs on his behalf, and so on - and I will have to battle on to get the current authority to put education in place at home because we could still be here for a long time.  But yes, if I can move and get him into that other college I will be breathing a big sigh of relief and meeting friends for coffee regularly :)  I would really like to just leave all my old life behind and move into a new one.

I have been feeling sad about my mum today.  A friend texted, her mother in law passed away yesterday.  She has never been a very nice mum to her son, so the contact he's had with her has always been more duty bound than anything else.  He was with her when she died and apparently it wasn't a peaceful passing so was all very unpleasant.  He's feeling very conflicted about the whole situation.  It made me think about my mum.  Despite everything that's happened, I don't want her to die alone or in pain.  Then I thought would I go if she was going to be alone and I don't know if I could stomach sitting next to her or holding her hand.  It just made me feel sad that it's even an issue in my mind.  But it is what it is.  There is little we can do about that.

I do meditate at bedtime and do find it relaxing, so much so that I usually fall asleep.  I am hoping that it works even when you're dozing lol xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on January 12, 2018, 03:48:04 PM
I'm glad you're back into life-planning, Tupp.
It's frustrating to have to wait but you're very good at renewing your own dreams.
I admire this a lot.

I'd love to hear more about the seaside city you dream of.
No need to identify it but I love visualizing something about where friends are...or dream of going.

Do you already know people there?

And the college--love to hear more about what that is too, for your son.

All my fingers and toes remain crossed that this dream WILL become true for you. You're taking all the right steps to make it possible. So I think it will.

love,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 12, 2018, 05:11:17 PM
I'm glad you're back into life-planning, Tupp.
It's frustrating to have to wait but you're very good at renewing your own dreams.
I admire this a lot.

I'd love to hear more about the seaside city you dream of.
No need to identify it but I love visualizing something about where friends are...or dream of going.

Do you already know people there?

And the college--love to hear more about what that is too, for your son.

All my fingers and toes remain crossed that this dream WILL become true for you. You're taking all the right steps to make it possible. So I think it will.

love,
Hops

Ah, Hopsie, I don't cope well without a plan to work towards, I had a period of feeling very hopeless towards the end of last year and it really isn't good for me so I like having another option to think about :)

It's an area we lived in when my son was small so I have four friends there that I've kept in touch with all these years - two best friends and two good friends.  Then there are others who I wouldn't describe a close friends but are people that I liked spending time with and would enjoy meeting for a coffee every now and again.

The college itself is a large mainstream college with a supported learning unit.  It has a good reputation and they run courses for people with learning difficulties ranging from basic Maths and English, life skills, through to offering any course up to University Level with support if it's needed.  My son's needs are fairly basic but everything's modular so you can pick out what suits you best and modify things as you go along, rather than him having to commit to one course for the year.  They do a six week assessment period initially which I think would be good for him as it will be different for him to learn in a group rather than one to one with me.  They have options for sport, art, drama and so on as well so it's a good mix of necessary skills and fun stuff.  Potentially he could stay there for four years as well so it would mean not having to change about and go through all this again in a year's time!

The area itself is a fairly large seaside town about half an hour away from the beach.  You can get there on the bus and in the summer it's lovely, the bus is full of people in swimmers and flip flops and all the buckets and spades are piled up in the luggage racks :)  There's a lot of outdoor sports and activities and because it's a tourist area people are in a good mood because they're on their holidays.  Where we live now is more like a commuter area so people are busy and always on their way somewhere.  It's just more laid back and easy going.  The town's quite a good size; I'm enjoying not driving so ideally I'd like to be fairly central so we can get around easily.  There's a cinema, leisure centre (swimming, bowling, that sort of thing), lots of places to shop (I'm not keen on shopping but my son loves it), some good live music venues (we both love that) an art gallery, small theatre, that sort of thing.  It's on a main train line so reasonably easy to get around to other places as well.  It's reasonably safe - obviously there's some crime as it's a town - but it's not the sort of place where people get stabbed at the weekends and you're scared to go out after dark.  It's also two hundred miles away from my mum and if I plan things right there's a very good chance she won't know that's where we've gone :)

I'm sounding like an estate agent :)  Lol :)  It won't be perfect, I know, and college might turn out not to be so great, we might end up living next door to horrible people, my mum might find out where we are and get social services all riled up again - all sorts of negative possibilities - but equally where we are at the moment we have no college option that would meet my son's needs, my mum is to close for comfort and I don't have many friends I can see very often.  So I think it's worth giving it a shot :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 15, 2018, 02:31:16 AM
I think I moved back here to prove to my mum that I'm not a bad mum.

I'm not sleeping well again and have been waking up through the night with all sorts going through my mind.  And I had one of those odd lightbulb moments shortly after waking, when I was thinking about how hard things have been for the last ten years and how much I've sacrificed in order to be a good mum.  And I do wonder now why I ever thought living under my mum's nose - or across the road from that piece of shit she's married to - would be a good idea.  After all the child protection stuff I was too scared to do anything with my son or leave him with anyone I didn't know.  Moving back 'home' seemed the only sensible option.  If I'd moved anywhere else I'd have more or less been going into hiding and I didn't think that was a good idea.  So hiding in plain sight, right under her nose, surrounded people I'd known from years ago, seemed sensible - better the devil you know and all that.

And on a practical level it was sensible.  We rented from someone we knew and got a good price on the house.  We did know lots of people so I didn't have to risk trusting people I didn't know (although it turned out there were people I couldn't trust even though I knew them).  I knew the area so didn't need to worry about working out where things were or bus routes or anything like that.  But this morning I suddenly felt that, underneath all that, I wanted to prove to my mum (and everyone else she slagged me off to) that I'm a good mum.  I have put myself through ten years of trouble and loneliness and living in a backwater I outgrew nearly thirty years ago to prove myself to someone whose opinion would be, to any sensible mind, irrelevant.  Not only irrelevant, but who will always typecast me and label me, whatever I do, because she can't function any other way.

I feel sad and empty.  I'm probably half way through my life now and I've spent all of it trying to prove myself to someone who doesn't care.  Why do we do this to ourselves?  And why does it take so long to see it?  And not do it anymore??! xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 15, 2018, 04:17:04 AM
The new possible college have emailed me to let me know they've set up an online account for me so that I can log in and check on progress and communicate directly with the team, as well as receiving emails securely.  Only a small thing and still doesn't mean he's got a place or that we can move but it is better than the laisez faire attitude we've been having to put up with in our current location.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on January 15, 2018, 07:43:42 PM
Hey Tupp,
To realize it after a couple-three decades is better than after five or six!

It's painful to regret, to mourn the road not taken.
It'd be a rare human being who doesn't have hard grief about something.
And yours was huge, since the loss or absence of mother love....hurts extra.

That said it was an intelligent coping choice you made to live where you did
while you did. And you did protect yourself and your son in so many ways -- it was canny.

I hope you won't let sorrow over an unfulfilling past infect the chance for
enjoying an imperfect but more fulfilling future. The town, the ocean, a
network of friends there, new experiences in a new context...sound great.

College communications sound promising, too! More efficient and more
supportive of a parent. Love that.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 17, 2018, 12:10:31 PM
Hey Tupp,
To realize it after a couple-three decades is better than after five or six!

It's painful to regret, to mourn the road not taken.
It'd be a rare human being who doesn't have hard grief about something.
And yours was huge, since the loss or absence of mother love....hurts extra.

That said it was an intelligent coping choice you made to live where you did
while you did. And you did protect yourself and your son in so many ways -- it was canny.

I hope you won't let sorrow over an unfulfilling past infect the chance for
enjoying an imperfect but more fulfilling future. The town, the ocean, a
network of friends there, new experiences in a new context...sound great.

College communications sound promising, too! More efficient and more
supportive of a parent. Love that.

Hugs
Hops

Hops, thank you and yes, you are right, better to realise at some point rather than not at all, I think I just felt a bit deflated for a while.  Getting back on an even keel now though :)

We've seen the genetic specialist today.  Two doctors, both very nice, professional, understanding, explained everything very well.  Basically my son might have a genetic disorder but if he does there isn't really anything they can do about it anyway, so there's not really much point finding out.  The test to confirm it is an unpleasant one and would require a general anaesthetic to carry it out.  If it would make a difference to his quality of life then I would do it but as they've said they wouldn't do anything for him with a diagnosis anyway then I don't think there's any point.  It isn't progressive, which was my main concern as his health dipped so severely over the last few years (I was worried that would keep happening) but that isn't the way the condition works.  It still means no-one has any idea why his health dipped as badly as it did but it looks like we will just never know now.  I had also hoped that a more concrete diagnosis would mean we could get some help but they have said no, we'd still be left to get on with it anyway so again, another reason not to put him (or me) through any more hospital appointments or endless discussions with doctors that get us nowhere.

I have to say the thought of not having to go near a doctor again is a very positive one for me.  The other positive is that there is literally no reason for us to stay here now.  If he'd needed more tests and assessments then we'd have had to stay in the area but as it stands we don't need to see anyone else now so we can crack on with moving.  I might need to sort out some private assessments in regard to his educational stuff but I can sort that out myself so it feels like a good step in the right direction even though we didn't really get an answer, if that makes any sense?  Lol xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on January 17, 2018, 04:49:16 PM
That makes total sense to me, Tupp.

It's wonderful as an example of how easing up on All Wrong vs All Right, All True vs Real Paradox, all that kind of thing.... helps us heal and find peace.

It made perfect sense to want to insist on a precise diagnosis for your son. And now, it makes sense to grasp that try as they might, scientists and doctors do not have complete explanations and precise diagnoses for everything that can befall a human. Sometimes, it really is a mystery.

I'm relieved for you, that you are finding peace amid that ambiguity. And, life beckons louder!

(I think when for survival we have to fight and fight and fight, one of the biggest challenges is to hear the call of armistice. Peace-time.)

You've earned it and I'm believing that you will be able to enjoy it! I couldn't possibly understate my respect for what a huge achievement that is.

hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on January 17, 2018, 08:02:57 PM
Tupp, it feels like shedding doubts and medical appointments that contribute nothing but stress to me.

I'm so glad you're turning to the move.  Closer to supporters, distance between you and the chaos manufacturer.

Yes.

:: Nodding::.

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 18, 2018, 03:11:06 AM
That makes total sense to me, Tupp.

It's wonderful as an example of how easing up on All Wrong vs All Right, All True vs Real Paradox, all that kind of thing.... helps us heal and find peace.

It made perfect sense to want to insist on a precise diagnosis for your son. And now, it makes sense to grasp that try as they might, scientists and doctors do not have complete explanations and precise diagnoses for everything that can befall a human. Sometimes, it really is a mystery.

I'm relieved for you, that you are finding peace amid that ambiguity. And, life beckons louder!

(I think when for survival we have to fight and fight and fight, one of the biggest challenges is to hear the call of armistice. Peace-time.)

You've earned it and I'm believing that you will be able to enjoy it! I couldn't possibly understate my respect for what a huge achievement that is.

hugs
Hops

Thank you, Hops, that means a lot :)

I think my main issue was that his health vanished so completely and for so many years that the notion that no-one has a clue why kind of baffles me.  It's also really taken a toll on me so trying to find an answer seemed, to me, to give some security against it happening again.  It seems now that isn't the case and if there's no practical outcome that's any use to us then there's no point going through these endlessly stressful and time consuming appointments.  There's a part of me that fears just saying 'C'est la vie' (or whatever the most appropriate phrase might be) but also a part that finds it liberating.  I'm trying to focus on the liberating bit :)  I think now the thing to do is focus on what we can do practically - a good college place would be worth its weight in gold, as would having access to a few more leisure activities a bit nearer to home.  For me personally it would be so lovely to be within coffee drinking distance of four very good friends, one of whom has a son who gets on well with my son (the others have kids that are nice to my boy but he and this one lad get on particularly well together and are similar ages).  And of course, being away from old memories will be nice as well.  So practical change is afoot!  I do feel very tired today - I think all the stress and tension that's been building up is starting to seep out so I feel quite deflated.  But my workload has reduced dramatically if I can stop the 'illness' pursuit now so I can slow down a bit and spend a bit more time on me.

In other news - and I'll keep you all posted on this - a nice man has contacted me.  I know him vaguely from my wild days many years ago as I used to know his sister.  I met him a couple of times back then and liked him a lot, but he was a very sweet, sensitive guy and not at all suited to my heavy drinking, 'take all the drugs you can get ' stage of life.

I've not seen him in twenty years but have bumped into his sister from time to time and swopped 'hi' messages and then a little contact over the years via email and Facebook.  He messaged me last week as he has just moved back to the area (and ironically is living in the same village as me) so we are meeting up for a drink next week.

I am looking forward to some intelligent conversation if nothing else!  I have been pondering how ironic it would be to meet someone just as I'm preparing to move.  I am putting the cart before the horse, of course, but am trying to go forward with an open mind and just enjoy the experience for whatever it turns out to be :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 18, 2018, 03:19:33 AM
Tupp, it feels like shedding doubts and medical appointments that contribute nothing but stress to me.

I'm so glad you're turning to the move.  Closer to supporters, distance between you and the chaos manufacturer.

Yes.

:: Nodding::.

Lighter

Lighter, thank you, I love the title 'the chaos manufacturer' :)  So apt, and something else to add to your wisdom cookie collection :)

Yes, I think practical and positive is the way to go.  I think we're at the end of the road health wise; I'll continue to try for an all round healthy lifestyle for him and there are a couple of 'alternative' type treatments (mostly to do with encouraging growth in neural pathways; brain plasticity, I think it's called) that I am going to read up on a bit more and look into.  I don't think it will hurt to experiment with things like massage and different types of music as well so I'll engage in a bit of that too, but essentially I think shelving any further appointments is the best idea.

I have given him a good childhood.  I'm proud of that; there have been a lot of obstacles along the way but he's been happy, healthy and well looked after and he's a confident, happy young man.  Someone at the train station yesterday commented on how nice it was to see a young lad reading and in the doctor's surgery during the week he was going on one of his mad linguistic rambles (his mind works in loops and he sees really funny connections) and the lady sitting next to him was laughing along with me at what he was saying (he loves making people laugh).  So I've done a good job; next step is to focus on me a bit and work towards getting him living and being supported by others.  We're heading in the right direction, I think :)

Phew!  Thank you for all the help and support, everybody, and listening to my rambles and waffling :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on January 18, 2018, 04:26:48 AM
Oh, that's just lovely, Tupp.
At every level.

Don't worry about the timing and don't plan anything beyond enjoying!
(If something fated were to happen, you'd find a plan that makes sense.)

Now rest, relax and allow some beauty to trickle in...it's that post-adrenalin
feeling you're awash in, that's all. You're just not used to being relaxed.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on January 18, 2018, 09:19:11 AM
Whew, I'm breathing easier for you, Tupp.

For me, the pressure coming off felt like my shoulders clicking down one mechanical click at a time.  It's an adjustment, and takes getting used to, ime.  Learning to be in that space, and not slip back to the old, is a thing.

:: nodding::.

You have milestones to celebrate, and so you are!  That's one thing we don't get enough of..... noticing and embracing the good stuff when the bad stuff is pressing in, ime. 

There's some catching up to do, and it looks as though you're back on track.  Play your favorite music, Tupp.  And dance.

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 19, 2018, 03:00:39 AM
Thank you, Hops and Lighter :)

Yes, relaxing is a new one for me!  I actually don't feel like I have a huge worry looming over my head at the moment.  I've got things to do, obviously, but nothing that's hugely stressful or that can't just be abandoned if I decide I can't be bothered.  Maybe that's the difference, whether or not you have a choice?  I often feel that I don't have choices (or that they're rock and hard place kind of choices) so to feel that I am about to start working towards something I actually want to do is odd :)  We've got a fairly quiet week coming up now so I am looking forward to that :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on January 20, 2018, 12:52:50 PM
Tupps, I think people can be conditioned to expect drama, complications, and the resulting stress. To the point that we can stress out just anticipating something that hasn't - and may not happen.

I notice it about myself; just ran into it again with the property closings. Filling out - or even just signing - forms gets me all freaked out. And most of the glitches I've experienced in the past about this seemingly minor issue - are because I was freaked out about how to "do it right". LOL.

Relaxing is an acquired skill for me. Mentally, the only time my brain relaxes is when I'm exhausted or I'm intentionally doing work that can be accomplished BEST from a state of flow... just doing; not thinking. I am getting better at it... now if I could make it compatible with what the rest of the world seems to want/need from me.  LOL
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 20, 2018, 03:15:08 PM
Tupps, I think people can be conditioned to expect drama, complications, and the resulting stress. To the point that we can stress out just anticipating something that hasn't - and may not happen.

I notice it about myself; just ran into it again with the property closings. Filling out - or even just signing - forms gets me all freaked out. And most of the glitches I've experienced in the past about this seemingly minor issue - are because I was freaked out about how to "do it right". LOL.

Relaxing is an acquired skill for me. Mentally, the only time my brain relaxes is when I'm exhausted or I'm intentionally doing work that can be accomplished BEST from a state of flow... just doing; not thinking. I am getting better at it... now if I could make it compatible with what the rest of the world seems to want/need from me.  LOL

Yes I know exactly what you mean!  I think my whole life has been expecting and anticipating drama - mum/dad/step-dad in the early years, and then my chaotic drink/drug/dodgy men lifestyle for a long time.  Had my son with a terrible dad so lots of hassle there and then all the disability/abuse allegations/low income/homeless a couple of times - it really has been just one thing after another.  So yes, to get up this morning and not actually have any drama to deal with, or stress to worry about, or big event coming up to dread - it kind of felt weird!  Lol.  I will work hard to get used to it :)  I did a bit of yoga, did a few jobs around the house and then went to see a friend.  I've got paperwork to do but it isn't to a really tight deadline so I can take my time with it next week and do a couple of hours a day.  I'd like to get used to not having drama to think about, wouldn't that be nice? :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on January 21, 2018, 09:22:54 AM
Drama eats up a lot of TIME, Tupps! And some days it will even feel boring... but it's a blessed boredom! There's all that time to engage in the things we dream about doing... and to thoroughly enjoy them - no rush, anxiety, worry, or stress.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 23, 2018, 04:26:49 AM
Drama eats up a lot of TIME, Tupps! And some days it will even feel boring... but it's a blessed boredom! There's all that time to engage in the things we dream about doing... and to thoroughly enjoy them - no rush, anxiety, worry, or stress.

So true, Skep, and the drama can be addictive.  I think a part of me used to enjoy, in a weird way, the next event or the next row or the next installment.  It's so odd.  I could hear a couple of men talking on the train the other day and one was talking about his relationship with this girl and it was all so over the top, endless rows and he said and she said, and then her family got involved and then she moved out and was angry he didn't fight to stop her going and he was telling all of this to his friend and I was thinking, my goodness, how exhausting!  But I know I've had relationships like that in the past and you do get so caught up in it all.  I find it bone chilling now and just want to walk away from it all.  But anyway, in other news - I think life has turned a corner for me :)

I'm looking at my diary and we don't have a single unpleasant appointment or meeting coming up in the foreseeable future.  We have regular health related appointments (acupuncture and osteopathy) that we both attend every six weeks but I enjoy those; the stress oozes out of me (and son) and both practitioners are kind, knowledgeable, interesting company and it's like a social visit combined with a stress busting session.  I enjoy it and we often go for lunch afterwards which is also nice.  I have got paperwork to deal with but I can do that under my own steam.  So for the first time in years I have a diary that only has enjoyable things written down in it.  I actually have things to look forward to rather than to dread :)  I can't tell you what a nice feeling that is :)

I did some more clearing out yesterday - I think shredding could become my favourite form of therapy.  Such a good feeling and a space saving way to get rid of things as well!  I found a box of old photographs and flicked through them.  I've decided to put some time in to releasing my mum and step-dad once and for all.  I want to spend some time focusing on the things that my mum did well.  She was a good cook and we were well looked after physically.  We had plenty of food, clean clothes, the house was always clean.  She made a big fuss of birthdays and Christmas.  We always got presents and birthday treats.  She once spent a whole morning on the phone getting me concert tickets for my favourite band.  She rescued me from a working holiday that went wrong and left me stranded with no money and no plane ticket home.  She organised the flights, borrowed the money to pay for it and collected me from the airport.

She taught me how to drive and taught me good manners.  She instilled a strong work ethic in me that has stood me well to this day.  The fact that we never had any money has meant I've always been frugal and managed well on a low income.  It doesn't mean that all the terrible things she did don't matter, but for a long time I couldn't acknowledge that she'd ever done anything nice and I feel it's time to work on that and let it all go.  I'm aware that I need to do the same with my step-dad but I'm finding that hard to even complicate.  There was a picture of him in the photo box and it literally made me physically sick to even look at him.  But I guess that's why I need to work through a bit more.  I'm getting there slowly.  But yes, the flat is coming along, the paperwork is coming along, someone is coming round today to have a look at my garden and sort out getting that cleared up.

And my mini-date last night - was lovely :)  He is still caring, kind, intelligent and I am much more receptive to that sort of personality now.  We chatted about fairly neutral topics - just places we've lived, worked, family (his rather than mine for the time being).  He's very easy to talk to and he's happy to chat away about nothing in particular, which I like.  He offered to walk me through the village to collect my son which is so sweet; it's the sleepiest little village you could imagine and the most serious thing that happened last year was that someone ripped the heads of all the daffodils on the village green.  So absolutely no threat to me walking around after dark and I do it all the time but I thought it was very cute that he offered.  It was just nice to chat, be out, not be mum for a couple of hours.  Just a taste of normal life again after so much abnormality for so long.  Things are looking good :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on January 23, 2018, 07:19:05 AM
Sounds like maybe you're feeling some spring fever too? LOL. Return of WARM sunshine, soft breezes, pretty flowers and everything greening up again. It's pretty strong energy here...
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on January 23, 2018, 10:30:27 AM
I'm smiling ear to ear for you, (((Tupp.)))

Remember to listen to your favorite music, and dance should it be appropriate.

::nodding::.

Lighter 

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 23, 2018, 12:01:07 PM
I'm dancing :)  And I'm soooo looking forward to spring breezes and sunshine and just generally loveliness :)  Although in the space of a few hours I have gone down with a heavy cold.  Weird how those sort of things appear from nowhere.  I don't know if my healthy eating mission has driven some germs out?  We've a quiet week, though, so I can just take things easy.

I am still trying to manage my stress.  The public sector interactions definitely trigger it in a huge way.  It happened yesterday and to a lesser extent today (I did manage not to take it out on the person on the phone this time who was just doing a routine thing and would have had no idea how harshly these routine things shove me sideways).  I couldn't breathe when I got off the phone, my chest was hurting, I was sick and had a headache - all within a couple of minutes.  It wore off fairly quickly but it does knock me out a little.  So I am trying to manage my stress levels more (in response to dealing with things as they come up).

My garden is very overgrown and really needs a couple of blokes to do a day's work to clear it, just so it's manageable again.  I offered the work to a friend, who's just been round, but from what he's said he won't be able to do such a thorough job and will need me to clear the rubbish (which I don't want to have to do; I'd rather it was taken away).  So I'm going to call him to say not to do it.  I feel myself feeling bad about it as I know he needs the money but I really need the whole lot doing in one go and everything being taken off site.  If I have to do it it will just be another huge job for me to have to get round to and the longer it sits there the worse it will get.  So I need to get that organised.

I also had an email from someone about another assessment from my son.  The situation with regards to his college placement is quite complex at the moment and I need to get legal advice about what to do next.  Because of that I don't want to arrange the assessment until I know what to do legally, in case this assessment turns out to be the wrong kind.  I got quite anxious thinking about it all but in the end decided just to email the therapist and be honest and explain that I'm taking legal advice so I'll contact her about arranging something once I've got everything else sorted out.  Do you think that was okay?  I was very polite but my son's had so many assessments and appointments I really want every single one he has now to count for something instead of just being a waste of time.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on January 23, 2018, 06:52:00 PM
You're smart to ask this question, Tupp....
90% research, 10% execution.  Of course you'll find out which assessment this is before scheduling it.  Wasting time isn't necessary or helpful.

Go Tupp.  Hire the people who can do your entire garden job.... it's more than reasonable.

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on January 24, 2018, 06:11:12 AM
Tupp, of course you have a right to know which assessment this is (out of the many) before you schedule anything else. As tricky as it seems to navigate your system there - which I'm aware is a little out of the norm for your son - I'm rather surprised that at the beginning of the process there wasn't a cheerful perky student or employee who gave you the basic outline of the steps of applying, evaluation, etc.

I think you did good, momma.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on January 24, 2018, 03:50:33 PM
Wish I could advise, but I don't know what any implications might be of telling a T you're consulting an advocate.
Will that be threatening in some way or is it just matter of fact informative?

I wonder if you brought it up because you have some doubt? And if you do, could that be about anger toward the bureaucracy and all that stuff you hate dealing with?

My hope is it's not adding any tension because I still believe you want to view these people as YOUR advocates, there to serve you and your son (however inadequately) and that approaching them as allies is best for you.

Hugs
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 25, 2018, 06:34:37 AM
Thank you all for your feedback and support, as always.  I wanted to tell you about a funny thing that happened yesterday afternoon.

I was pottering about, cleaning and clearing more stuff.  I've got so much to go the charity shop now that I've had to stop decluttering until I've rehomed some of it as I've no more space to store any more bags.  So I was tidying up, dusting, rearranging things we are keeping and mentally planning the next bit of decorating or DIY to sort out and I noticed I was feeling quite weird.  I couldn't really put my finger on it and carried on cleaning and tidying while I thought about it.  And then I realised what it was - I felt happy :)  It's been so long that I didn't even know what it was anymore!  It wasn't delirious happiness, just unstressed contentment without any major headaches hanging over my head.  We've not had a period without something horrible coming up that we need to cope with and get through for about four years now.  I'm just not used to not dreading what's coming.  It's a nice feeling!

Skep, to answer your point about the college process, the problem is there are enormous numbers of people that can talk you through the process and huge amounts of legislation relating to it (all of which is published online so you can read up on it yourself) - but most of the time the people in the process don't follow it and it's only enforceable through the courts, which is why so many people end up having to take legal action.  It's relatively straight forward - assessments are done, a collaborative report produced, a suitable placement located, funding is put in place and off everyone goes.  The problem is funding has been cut so badly that it's a survival of the fittest situation - the parents with the time, energy and, in many cases, money to get private assessments done and hire good lawyers get their kids what they need.  Everyone else goes without.  So I know what needs to be done, but it's got to the point where it looks like we'll have to go to court to get it done.  To complicate matters further, different areas work in different ways so if/when we move we might have to do it all over again if the new authority decides they don't want to follow the information provided by the old one.  Maddening.

Hopsie, yes, I was worried it would sound threatening but I phrased it very politely and the therapist isn't part of the overall process, she just does her assessment and submits her report, so any legal situation that comes now won't involve her.  I also didn't really have another reason not to meet her for the assessment so if I'd made something up I think I'd have got more stressed out about that - plus there's the risk that someone finds out you've lied to get out of an assessment which then looks weird and so on.  She's been very nice about it and said she understands and just to call if/when we need her so I think it's okay (and she works in the system and knows how many people end up going to court over this so I doubt it's the first time she's been in that situation).

Anyway, I am practising the art of telling the truth and not attaching myself to the other person's reaction to it.  That's very hard for me to do, I'm so used to protecting everyone else's feelings.  But the email to the T was a good example, she had no problem with it and is open to us using her in the future.  I also told my friend this morning that I was going to get someone else in to do the garden - he was fine as he's aware he doesn't have the capability a larger firm would and I really want it done and dusted in a day, not done in dribs and drabs.  So that was fine.  I'm starting to get the hang of understanding that not everyone falls apart if someone says something that isn't 100% what they wanted to hear.

And in other news, a very kind friend has arranged a day trip to France, me and my son, her and her daughter.  She's treating us; we're going to drive to the ferry and then do an overnight crossing to a nice little town in Northern France and then just have the day wandering around eating croissants and admiring the scenery.  It sounds really lovely and she's arranged everything and is paying for the crossing as well - I offered to pay our half but she said it's her treat and I have accepted graciously - something else I am working on is understanding that there are people who do nice things and don't want your soul as repayment for it.  So I'm feeling very happy and very blessed at the moment.  And it's stopped raining as well!  Wonders will never cease :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on January 25, 2018, 01:33:19 PM
Ahhhhhhh, Tupp.  So much of you post feels familiar to me. 

Saying NO, and finding the world doesn't implode, or rather, finding our world isn't turned upside down by a punitive person bc we said NO...... It's new for me too.

A friend told me that perhaps I believe I should be punished, and when I change that, for myself, it will change in my life.  I noted it, and pay attention so I can catch it, if it's a factor.  I do believe I've always been one to assume everything is my fault.  Even what's beyond my control.  That's changed, for the most part, but what's left needs to be sussed out, and dealt with.

As for happiness creeping back into your life....


Breath it in deeply, my friend. 
Trust. 
Embrace. 

Unsteel your heart and body as you can.  Expect to feel lighter.  Expect the stress of the last 4 years to leave in layers.

Better days are here: )

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on January 25, 2018, 05:56:25 PM
Awww, ((((((Tupp))))).

That happiness is contagious!
I felt such a surge of warmth and peace and delight reading your post.

We all know it comes and it goes, but just to have those moments and register them, is such an awesome thing. It rewires the brain-grooves to know that happiness is ALSO REAL.

I am going to be mentally on the ferry with you!

Bon voyage!

love
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 26, 2018, 03:17:05 PM
Awww, ((((((Tupp))))).

That happiness is contagious!
I felt such a surge of warmth and peace and delight reading your post.

We all know it comes and it goes, but just to have those moments and register them, is such an awesome thing. It rewires the brain-grooves to know that happiness is ALSO REAL.

I am going to be mentally on the ferry with you!

Bon voyage!

love
Hops

Aw Hops, thanks, we all have a virtual day trip together :)  Lol.  Yes, it's all about rewiring, isn't it, doing things and finding that, actually, this is okay, and then building on that (and hopefully building resilience to times when it doesn't go well, as there just will be occasions when things aren't great).  Definitely feeling more like a human being than I have for a long time xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 26, 2018, 03:20:28 PM
Ahhhhhhh, Tupp.  So much of you post feels familiar to me. 

Saying NO, and finding the world doesn't implode, or rather, finding our world isn't turned upside down by a punitive person bc we said NO...... It's new for me too.

A friend told me that perhaps I believe I should be punished, and when I change that, for myself, it will change in my life.  I noted it, and pay attention so I can catch it, if it's a factor.  I do believe I've always been one to assume everything is my fault.  Even what's beyond my control.  That's changed, for the most part, but what's left needs to be sussed out, and dealt with.

As for happiness creeping back into your life....


Breath it in deeply, my friend. 
Trust. 
Embrace. 

Unsteel your heart and body as you can.  Expect to feel lighter.  Expect the stress of the last 4 years to leave in layers.

Better days are here: )

Lighter

Yes, Lighter, that really resonates with me, when you've been deeply involved with someone/many people who use their power and influence to punish you because you didn't do what they wanted it really digs deep, doesn't it.  It's a very new experience to put my own needs first and not have something hideous happen as a result.  I've had friends disappear because I stopped doing what they wanted all the time, professionals make false allegations or 'lose' important paperwork because I wouldn't comply with something that I didn't feel would benefit my son and there's a whole book to be written about my mum.  So it is a bit of a novel experience to be able to communicate honestly with people and not have them throw a hissy fit and make my life miserable because of it.  I like it! xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 27, 2018, 04:15:58 AM
Just a funny thing, I couldn't sleep and was scrolling through Facebook and one of those "pick a picture to reveal your destiny" things came up, hocus pocus in my opinion but all sorts of things seem appealing at 3am so I picked one and read the script attached to it with my mouth open, was all about how it was time to pack up and move on, I've build a life based on things that had to be done but the need is gone now so time to enjoy the freedom and do what I want to rather than what I have to.  It was just so apt for my current situation, it really made me laugh.  Just something silly I know but was such a funny coincidence :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on January 29, 2018, 04:55:16 AM
Well those words have be true for someone, and right now it happens to be you, Tupp. 

I hope you went back to bed, and managed more sleep.

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 29, 2018, 02:24:21 PM
Well those words have be true for someone, and right now it happens to be you, Tupp. 

I hope you went back to bed, and managed more sleep.

Lighter

Thanks, Lighter, yes, I've been napping in the afternoons and catching up on zzzzzzz :)

Anyway, a little development!  I would appreciate knowing what you all think.

Another college has been offered to my son - same county as we currently live in but different town, forty minutes or so from where we are now.  Too far for him to travel every day but we could move there.  So currently our options are:

Option 1 - we stay here and make no attempt to move, and we appeal the current decision by the local authority to refuse him a place in the college local to us (ten minutes up the road).  Pros are that we won't need to move and so save time/money/stress, our flat is nice, we're in a good area (safe, nice people and so on).  Cons are my mother, numerous other people I don't like and don't like bumping into, the stress of an appeal, the possibility we lose (so he still has nowhere to go).

Option 2 - the college in a different town but same county.  He can go without anything else being done now; the place is his if we want it (we haven't looked at it yet but it does look good on paper).  They have their own team of speech therapists, occupational therapists and so on and a good range of courses and options so it would be a good fit for him.  We can try and do a council swop (with local authority housing you can exchange with another tenant in a different area and it's relatively easy and straightforward).  The town itself is nice, plenty to do, safe area and so on, good transport links, all positives really,  Obviously it's easier to move somewhere that's forty minutes away rather than somewhere that's four hours (and also less money, stress and so on).  But the downside would still be my mother (it's not far enough away for us to escape her completely, I feel) and I know I would feel safer/happier with a good couple of hundred miles between us.  Also not knowing a soul there; I'd be even more isolated than I am here which doesn't fill me with joy.  The thought of trying to be sociable and make new friends leaves me feeling a bit bleurgh.

Option 3 - is the seaside option that I've already mentioned.  In my heart that is my favourite - I love the area, I love the coast, I love the idea of being two hundred miles away from my mum.  The college seems good on paper (we haven't seen it for real yet, organising soon).  My friends are down there and I really miss them.  I know life for me would be good down there and assuming the college is as good as it seems it would be for my son as well.  The cons are that we would be changing local authorities (which means going through all this paperwork nightmare again) and they might refuse him a place and we'd be in the same situation we are now and would have to appeal (we would probably win but it's all very stressful and time consuming).  It is harder to move two hundred miles; the logistics are just more complicated and it costs more.  This college doesn't have an inhouse medical team so I'd have to organise that separately which could be a pain.

I kind of feel that option 2 would be the easiest and most straightforward, but that option 3 would be the one I really want.  It would be possible to go with option 2 for the next couple of years and then transition to Option 3 when he's 19 (the college there takes special needs students until they're 25).  It would be easier to vanish without a trace from the option 2 address than it would be from this one (and I would love for no-one around here to know where I've gone).  So what I'm thinking is (a) prepare for not moving at all (in case we can't find anywhere to move to) and put in for appeal to try to get my son in the local college if we can't move anywhere else but (b) look for options to move to both other locations and just see which one comes up and looks the most promising.  I don't feel that Option 2 would be a permanent move but I'd do it for a couple of years and view it as a stepping stone to Option 3 (which still feels the most promising to me).

Anyway, I hope all of that makes sense (it is a bit confusing!).  What do you all think? xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on January 30, 2018, 09:05:02 AM
I think your reasoning sounds wise, mature, sensible and pragmatic, Tupp.

Bravo.

love and courage,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on January 31, 2018, 12:42:31 AM
You can go with your instincts, Tupp.  That's an option.

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 31, 2018, 03:39:44 AM
Thanks, Hops and Lighter, I've been feeling so conflicted over the last few days - what's best for me, what's best for son, what's low risk, what's high risk, can I cope if x, y and z happens?  Going on pure 'what do I want' with no other thoughts it's seaside town, all the way.

I did realise as well that I feel I need to decide an outcome in my mind very quickly whenever I'm in a 'what to do situation', and then I need a plan in place to get to that outcome.  That calms me down; I don't like the sense of panic when I don't have a clear idea of what I'm doing.  But I think that also goes with the control issues and the need to manage threat etc.  I also get very stressed when the planned outcome (or the plan to get there) doesn't stay on track or come good - then I feel like I've failed.

So - deep breath - I'm going to try to think in terms of options rather that one outcome and try to be a bit more objective and just see how things go at each stage, and to keep taking time out from the whole process (stress definitely speeds up my need for everything to be done and finished, even if it's in a way I didn't particularly want).  I had a lounging on the sofa day yesterday and was in a better head space for it.  Seaside town is definitely my first option and I realised last night that moving to a new town simply because we've been offered a place there is my conflict avoidance thing kicking in - I find it less stressful to move than I do to go to court to fight for a place at the local college.  So I think it would actually be less stressful (if seaside doesn't work out) to stay put and try to get him in the local college - or continue at home - than it would be to move.  I find the prospect of trying to make new friends really unappealing these days, particularly if the long term plan is still to move to seaside, as it's too far away to maintain friendships regularly.

So - today's options - try for seaside (friends down there are excited and want to help) - try for local college in case we can't move in time - try for college in other town if all other options don't work out.  But I'm focusing my happy thoughts on seaside, I really like that idea :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on January 31, 2018, 12:05:24 PM
Right, I have really got to take control of my mind and focus on what I KNOW rather than what I think MIGHT HAPPEN!  (The caps are for my benefit, I might get it tattoed on my arm somewhere :) ).

I have been stressing, stressing, stressing about this court paperwork for the college and fretting that it has to be done before we move because what if this and what if that and then I've got to organise moving as well and I've got so much to do and I'm so tired and I can't do it all and I'm always on my own and no-one helps me and blah blah blah - BE QUIET NEGATIVE TUP THIS IS TOO MUCH.

I sat down to start on the court paperwork this afternoon and after reading through the info about the application and what I need to do - discovered I have another two months before I even need to submit anything.  Admittedly it will take a bit of time to pull all the paperwork together but I can easily leave it for at least another six weeks before I even need to think about it again - by which time I might have a better idea of when or if we are moving (and if we move I won't need to go through this process anyway).

So another trauma avoided.  I really have got to stop imagining the worst case 'what if' scenarios and start thinking "you don't know how that's going to go yet - read up first and then work out what needs to be done".  Argh!  Another ten stone of stress lifted from my shoulders!  I'm going to have to start wearing heavy shoes soon to stop me from floating away.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on February 01, 2018, 11:54:09 PM
Hi Tupp:

You sound more grounded.....more resilient... less tied to outcomes. 

Being able to bob and weave is an advantage.  Rolling with the punches, and correcting course, while managing some perspective, is a skill ime. 

You have options, and I'm guessing this is new.....feels so new.... something you're getting used to.  IME it opens channels for creativity to flow again.  You begin to see possibilities, and problem solve more easily.

As always....90% research and 10% execution.  You're open to options, but have preferences until you finish gathering information. 

Your shift of perspective is a breath of fresh air.  You're free Tupp.  I think you really are this time.

Lighter g







Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on February 02, 2018, 04:04:56 AM
Hi Tupp:

You sound more grounded.....more resilient... less tied to outcomes. 

Being able to bob and weave is an advantage.  Rolling with the punches, and correcting course, while managing some perspective, is a skill ime. 

You have options, and I'm guessing this is new.....feels so new.... something you're getting used to.  IME it opens channels for creativity to flow again.  You begin to see possibilities, and problem solve more easily.

As always....90% research and 10% execution.  You're open to options, but have preferences until you finish gathering information. 

Your shift of perspective is a breath of fresh air.  You're free Tupp.  I think you really are this time.

Lighter g

Thank you, Lighter, yes, outcomes, that's the clincher, I tend to start with what I want the outcome to be and then work back from that and get frustrated and disappointed when it doesn't happen the way I hoped.  So trying to focus less on that and more on just what I'm doing right now - leaving options open, trying to listen more, I think?  Rather than decide what needs to happen first.  And speaking of listening - I was triggered twice yesterday by health care professionals.  One phone call in the morning that left me struggling to breathe and muttering to myself throughout the day - I kept saying to myself "ignore it, get back on track" but it was hard to regain any kind of calm.  Then a second call came through, which I missed (from a different therapist this time) and I felt my anxiety escalate and was thinking I'd have to plough through loads of paperwork to check things and then insist on her confirming in writing that she was doing x, y and z and then I'd have to find out if x, y and z was actually enough because what if it isn't and it just spiraled.  So - get ready for the drum roll - I stopped myself, called her back and asked her to talk me through the process.  I really concentrated on listening to what she said, rather than thinking about what I needed to say and wrote everything down.  It calmed me down instantly, not least because, at this point, what she's going to be doing is really as much as can be done at the moment but it helped me to focus my mind.  I was able to ask some more specific questions and clarify a few points and got off the phone feeling completely calm and ready for the assessment (which is next week).

It did show me that focusing on the process (in that instance, at least) was a lot more productive than focusing on the outcome (the assessment, or, more appropriately, what happens after the assessment).

So yes!  A good lesson yesterday.  Three quiet, relaxing days ahead now, I'm looking forward to doing more work on the flat and just generally getting on with things :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on February 03, 2018, 01:03:24 AM
Lightbulb moment.  Felt awful yesterday.  No energy, headache, felt sick, just wanted to veg on the sofa, watch telly and eat crap.  Couldn't muster up the energy for anything at all.  This happens a lot and I keep thinking it has a physical root and I have some sort of chronic fatigue type condition.  But yesterday I was thinking, it doesn't make any sense.  We don't do an awful lot any time anymore.  We'd been to the cinema the night before but weren't home terribly late and the cinema is mostly sitting down.  It was a nice film about rain forests so no high drama or thriller to contend with.  I get a reasonable amount of sleep these days.  My diet's not great but it's not terrible, either.  And then I realised that the day before I'd had two conversations with public sector workers.  That's the trigger.  I used to get this with my mum; I'd feel fine and then have a conversation with her on the phone.  By the afternoon I'd feel like I was swimming through treacle and it would take me days to recover.  The head fog is the worst thing; even making a cup of tea feels like a huge event.  I think what I need to do is purposely schedule a day off when I know I'm going to have to deal with one of these situations so I can prepare for it better and maybe make my meals in advance so at least i can eat well on the day.  Not quite sure how to avoid it with unscheduled contact, I will have to have a think on that xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on February 03, 2018, 01:02:07 PM
Tupp:

Extend huge compassion for yourself on the fuzzy days.  Put your hand on your chest.... wherever the heaviest parts are....and extend curiosity and acceptance. 

You can have down times, and it's just down time.  You'll return to your Mother tiger brilliant advocate self, as always.  Just pay attention, like you are, and note what comes up.

Again, so familiar to me..... getting knocked back or down by scary paperworky things and the people with power over systems that effect us and our children.

It's the not knowing how bad it will be THIS time....driven by insane attacks through the systems.  You know more about what can happen than most.  How can you use that knowledge to benefit you, instead of get stuck in spirals of worry/ fear?

Again, extend compassion to yourself.  You've been through the wringer and have good reason to fear.  Sink into it.  Pay attention to it.  No judging. Lean into the sadness, the being stuck, the desire to escape and accept it as a part of you that belongs and deserves attention.

I suspect underlying issues will present themselves, and you can notice them.  They belong too.

IME the fuzzy down time comes when I fight it.  Accepting it, not judging it leads to understanding what's beneath.

As you've done also, addressing the mechanical parts, doing all you can do, is helpful.  Well done, Tupp.

It's time to acknowledge the old coping strategies and thank them for their service.  Let them know you're ok..... they aren't needed any longer.  They will always have a place.....they belong.... it's just that new strategies belong  too.

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on February 03, 2018, 04:07:13 PM
Tupp, I'm sorry I haven't responded closely to your latest but I've read every one.

What hits me (again and again) is that whatever you are going through, you return always to your set point, which to me is clearly: intelligent, learning and moving forward, realizing, welcoming insights, forming new patterns, changing automatic reactions, and doing so so much more than "coping."

I am profoundly impressed by you at every stage, Tupp. I am really and truly awed by how you return and advance to clarity, greater clarity, more and more mature understandings of yourself and your evolving life...just all the time.

You do this over and over and over and it is awesome to witness!

love
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on February 04, 2018, 11:46:23 AM
Hi Tupps.... you said something about focusing on a specific outcome you wanted.

So, I wonder... have you actually written those specifics of WHY that outcome is important or longed for, down? And looked to see if maybe more than one outcome could actually provide them? Or maybe it would be ok if only 70% of your well-defined outcome happened? What would you consider "good enough"?

You KNOW, that if at any time a choice you make turns out to be less satisfying than you'd hoped for or something completely different (it happens)... you CAN change your mind and not lose any "points" with some fictional judge who's keeping score, right?? You won't even get thrown out of the "game" for unsportsmanlike or unladylike conduct.

I am beginning to think, that all this kind of agonizing over decisions and the processes involved (me & Holly, at least) is the flip side and co-exists with the "what I want doesn't really matter" syndrome. It's as if we're totally blind to the fact that yes, we are ones in charge, that have power in these situations... we're the ones pushing the process along... and yet we're terribly anxious, over-responsible (trying to do other people's jobs), and concerned about things going PERFECTLY... as if anything in life ever happens that way.

Oh, and the thing about over-focusing on a specific outcome? In the process of wanting just that one thing... you block out all the possible discoveries and explorations might pop up in just "surfing the waves of life" and seeing what MIGHT happen if you weren't the one deciding, in control, etc so much all the time. I've seen myself do this until I finally realized that's a limitation I'm setting. Sometimes a limitation is appropriate... but sometimes that's also the problem I'm trying to solve... by limiting my choice to just this one thing. LOL.

But then, I KNOW I'm weird this way. And sometimes I just have to grab myself by the invisible suspenders... and drag myself into something that I know will be good for me, or fun, no matter how much I think it should go a certain way... and I just have to intentionally LET GO my director's perogative.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on February 05, 2018, 12:07:48 PM
It's a relief to let expectations drift, preferably away.  It provides new vantages to glimpse possible other outcomes, Amber. 

Lately I'm trying to stay in the moment, and simply assume, good or bad, it's right on track, wherever it goes.

Getting curious, opposed to needing, wanting,worrying....is better.

Lighter

Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on February 09, 2018, 04:27:23 AM
Hi Tupps.... you said something about focusing on a specific outcome you wanted.

So, I wonder... have you actually written those specifics of WHY that outcome is important or longed for, down? And looked to see if maybe more than one outcome could actually provide them? Or maybe it would be ok if only 70% of your well-defined outcome happened? What would you consider "good enough"?

You KNOW, that if at any time a choice you make turns out to be less satisfying than you'd hoped for or something completely different (it happens)... you CAN change your mind and not lose any "points" with some fictional judge who's keeping score, right?? You won't even get thrown out of the "game" for unsportsmanlike or unladylike conduct.

I am beginning to think, that all this kind of agonizing over decisions and the processes involved (me & Holly, at least) is the flip side and co-exists with the "what I want doesn't really matter" syndrome. It's as if we're totally blind to the fact that yes, we are ones in charge, that have power in these situations... we're the ones pushing the process along... and yet we're terribly anxious, over-responsible (trying to do other people's jobs), and concerned about things going PERFECTLY... as if anything in life ever happens that way.

Oh, and the thing about over-focusing on a specific outcome? In the process of wanting just that one thing... you block out all the possible discoveries and explorations might pop up in just "surfing the waves of life" and seeing what MIGHT happen if you weren't the one deciding, in control, etc so much all the time. I've seen myself do this until I finally realized that's a limitation I'm setting. Sometimes a limitation is appropriate... but sometimes that's also the problem I'm trying to solve... by limiting my choice to just this one thing. LOL.

But then, I KNOW I'm weird this way. And sometimes I just have to grab myself by the invisible suspenders... and drag myself into something that I know will be good for me, or fun, no matter how much I think it should go a certain way... and I just have to intentionally LET GO my director's perogative.

Skep, your question about why the outcome is so important is an interesting one and had me thinking all week about why I'm so outcome focused and why I always have to have a plan and why I feel so panicked when things are up in the air or the outcome is "I don't know".  Having thought about it a lot (!) I think that right at the base of it is that it's never been okay to be me - and that's it.  As far back as I can remember, even as a little girl, I always had a thing in my head of what I ought to be doing and needed to be doing and if I achieved or did x, y and z then everything would be okay.  I think part of it's cultural - we're a very status based society, I think, and job/money/house/car is quite firmly entrenched in our view of how people 'do okay'.  But I think deeper than that is that I've never been good enough to just be myself and perhaps even deeper than that maybe having to protect my actual self from the abuse over the years I had to project a shell that I need to step in to.  I've always had a picture of how my life should be and I've always worked towards that.  So it's been a week of deep breaths!  And thinking, well okay, what if I just get through today without this vision in my head of how I should be and focus on what I am.  I still find it incredibly hard to think of myself in positive terms.  There's always a quiet, running commentary of everything I haven't done and everything I should do.  And I think an invisible checklist of chinks in my armour that people can use to get to me.
So I've been thinking about what I am and my qualities (and even as I write that I feel I need to preface it with "I'm not perfect but...." having to self deprecate and not be too full of myself and get ideas above my station.  But I am intelligent, hard working, resilient, resourceful.  I'm loyal and loving and a very good friend.  I'm socially aware and respectful of other people's beliefs, religions, cultures and so on.  I'm very good with money.  I'm a good researcher.  I'm kind and caring.  I help people out without looking down at them or judging them for the situation they're in.  I've worked hard to put healthy boundaries in place, to make myself healthy emotionally and to stick to my sometimes lonely path rather than giving in and accepting the drink/unhealthy relationship/pretending things are fine when they aren't stance.  I'm a very good mum and, I think most importantly to me, I've kept my son safe all these years and now I have this amazingly happy, confident, friendly young man who is a real asset to any situation and any community.
And I think that's what I need to work on; accepting myself for myself rather than trying to find a situation I can create in which I finally become acceptable in other people's eyes.  I think it all stems back to constantly seeking approval and never getting it (and we can all relate to that!).
So thank you for asking the question!  It made me think a lot and I think I made some real progress :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on February 09, 2018, 04:34:41 AM
Tupp:

Extend huge compassion for yourself on the fuzzy days.  Put your hand on your chest.... wherever the heaviest parts are....and extend curiosity and acceptance. 

You can have down times, and it's just down time.  You'll return to your Mother tiger brilliant advocate self, as always.  Just pay attention, like you are, and note what comes up.

Again, so familiar to me..... getting knocked back or down by scary paperworky things and the people with power over systems that effect us and our children.

It's the not knowing how bad it will be THIS time....driven by insane attacks through the systems.  You know more about what can happen than most.  How can you use that knowledge to benefit you, instead of get stuck in spirals of worry/ fear?

Again, extend compassion to yourself.  You've been through the wringer and have good reason to fear.  Sink into it.  Pay attention to it.  No judging. Lean into the sadness, the being stuck, the desire to escape and accept it as a part of you that belongs and deserves attention.

I suspect underlying issues will present themselves, and you can notice them.  They belong too.

IME the fuzzy down time comes when I fight it.  Accepting it, not judging it leads to understanding what's beneath.

As you've done also, addressing the mechanical parts, doing all you can do, is helpful.  Well done, Tupp.

It's time to acknowledge the old coping strategies and thank them for their service.  Let them know you're ok..... they aren't needed any longer.  They will always have a place.....they belong.... it's just that new strategies belong  too.

Lighter

Lighter, all of that is good advice, thank you :)  I am trying to be more accepting of the situation and not to beat myself up for feeling tired or frightened or being vulnerable in any way.  A friend was saying to me yesterday about how tired she feels all the time at the moment and I pointed out that she's had a really rough couple of years - bereavement, house move, divorce, redundancy - so she's bound to need time to recover and she should go easy on herself.  And a little voice in my head was saying, "Yes, Tup, how about you take your own advice and stop giving yourself such a hard time".  My son had another assessment this week and the lady was very nice; not at all triggering so I think it's definitely linked to certain kinds of behaviour that create panic in me.  I'm just going to keep trying to be as nice to myself as I tell other people they should be to themselves.  Practise, practise, practise :)

I did get a nice recipe book (Buddha Bowls - it's the latest fad here :) ).  It is a way of eating that suits me.  I love curling up with a bowl of food and it's basically a layer of leaves, some kind of grain (rice, couscous, lentils etc), veggies, some kind of protein (tofu, cheese, eggs) and some sort of good fat based sauce or dressing - avocado, nuts, seeds etc.  Some of the recipes are very fancy but what's good about it is that I've quickly ended up with a fridge full of healthy bits and pieces that I can bung in a bowl for a quick meal that isn't junk.  It suits me to eat this way so I'm looking forward to doing this more and hopefully next time I have a down day I can sit on the sofa and eat lots of bowls of healthy comfort food :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on February 09, 2018, 04:36:33 AM
Tupp, I'm sorry I haven't responded closely to your latest but I've read every one.

What hits me (again and again) is that whatever you are going through, you return always to your set point, which to me is clearly: intelligent, learning and moving forward, realizing, welcoming insights, forming new patterns, changing automatic reactions, and doing so so much more than "coping."

I am profoundly impressed by you at every stage, Tupp. I am really and truly awed by how you return and advance to clarity, greater clarity, more and more mature understandings of yourself and your evolving life...just all the time.

You do this over and over and over and it is awesome to witness!

love
Hops

You are very kind to say all those things, Hops, and I do want to keep learning about myself and figuring things out - it makes life easier for me when I understand what's going on and I'd love to get to a point where I feel reasonably happy most of the time - or at the very least not feel like I'm falling off a cliff so often :)  But enough about all that - what's going on with B?  You've been very quiet about him lately - I'm hoping that's a sign that things are going well? xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on February 09, 2018, 08:11:52 AM
Mike had a saying, that it was important to ask the RIGHT questions... and then PAY ATTENTION to the answers.

LOL, glad to help with the question part. And wow... what an answer you got! I hope you post some of your insights about that, as you go along. It's helpful for me too. My deal is trying to stop the reflex to be a chameleon... be what others want me to be in a situation, place, relationship etc.

I'm miles down the road of improving that but I still catch glimpses of it from time to time.

Just the being aware of it, will likely change your perspective a lot and as you say, practice and finding out "nothing bad happens" when you ARE "just Tupp"... will make it easier to integrate that; internalize it.

After all, we internalized all that abusive crap - pretty damn thoroughly. Why can't we try doing that with the genuine good stuff (for us) that lets us be more content and enjoying life?
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on February 09, 2018, 05:46:24 PM
((((Tupp)))) - Remember the Marvellous Me wall you wanted me to create, or the notes you wanted me to tack all over the house? Here's yours!

I am intelligent, hard working, resilient, resourceful.  I'm loyal and loving and a very good friend.  I'm socially aware and respectful of other people's beliefs, religions, cultures and so on.  I'm very good with money.  I'm a good researcher.  I'm kind and caring.  I help people out without looking down at them or judging them for the situation they're in.  I've worked hard to put healthy boundaries in place, to make myself healthy emotionally and to stick to my sometimes lonely path rather than giving in and accepting the drink/unhealthy relationship/pretending things are fine when they aren't stance.  I'm a very good mum and, I think most importantly to me, I've kept my son safe all these years and now I have this amazingly happy, confident, friendly young man

Thanks for asking about B...I'll fill y'all in on the Heist thread. (If I don't fall asleep first. We're going on our getaway tomorrow and I've got to hit the hay early, awake waaaaaaay too late last night. So if I don't post tonight it'll likely be Monday.)

love,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on February 10, 2018, 09:56:20 AM
So glad to see your posts before I go out of town, ((Tupp)).  There's a family birthday, and I'll be cooking for another family member..... the Plan stuff.  Gack.  I'm getting a bit tired of cooking huge vats of food, and having to deal with packaging, eating, freezing, keeping up with what's in the fridge, how old is THIS and how old is THAT?  Your new Buddha Bowl plan sounds so simple..... so accessible.   Something a busy mom, or college student could handle.  Anyone, really.

::nodding::

So, today I woke up after a very strange dream sequence.  My thoughts are.......
I'm very hooked into making things OK around me.  That makes me easily manipulated by others.  I'm not happy about that.... in fact, I'm a bit ticked that people DO that to other people, much less me all my life.  I don't like it in myself that it's been my MO.  I accept that I DID that TO myself, and I'm working on forgiving myself, accepting it, and feeling differently about it. 

I spent some time with those thoughts earlier this morning.

It feels very..... high.  I feel like I climbed up a big boulder.  I used to have the feeling I was teetering on a cliff's edge, wind howling and whipping my hair around my face so I couldn't see.  I distinctly remember feeling THAT.  Living on that edge emotionally.  This morning I felt like I was looking down on that, back on it, like I was finally above it.  I've never felt that before, though I've had a sense of release and my head clicking down into a more comfortable place on my spine.... this new feeling is sea change on how I relate to others and why.  Choosing not to be emotionally jerked around, by people seeking that response, is HUGE.  Such a relief.  I see choices I never knew I had before.  I sense making that change will be hard, and I'll be challenged over and over, but at least I have tools now.

I've heard it and practiced it in different ways through the last 25 years, but not in a way that really helped SEE in a way that made sense, and gave me hope, perhaps helped, but not in huge sweeping ways.  The mechanics of putting my hand over parts of my chest that FEEL heavy, sad, overwhelmed, anxious, and giving it non judgmental attention DOES.

I assume everyone hears and processes information differently.  We can receive a message 10 times, from different messengers, and then BAM..... one messenger gets one small piece of information through succinctly, making connections possible, IME.

For the most part, I get helpful information from many sage people on this board and in my life.  I'm very focused on incorporating them into my world, but my best thinking got me into my discomfort. I can;t think my way out of it, IME. I have to go out of my way to tap, or put my hand on my pain, and utilize tools from other people.  Just as I had to do when I recognized I couldn't edit my own home 15 years ago, I hired someone to take things out of my arms, and keep me looking to the next task.  Releasing shame, and accepting my brokeness/weaknesses is huge, ime.

Right now I'm curious if I can accept myself as I am, even if I can't learn another thing, or grow another emotional inch.... unconditionally, and completely.  I'm looking forward to trying.

::thinking of what I consider my negative qualities, and accepting them unconditionally::..

It seems counter intuitive, I know, but perhaps it will lead to less resistance in my life, and more joy.  That's the hope.

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: sKePTiKal on February 14, 2018, 07:57:51 AM
Hiya... Happy Valentine's Day!

Whatcha up to these days? How's it going?
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: lighter on February 14, 2018, 08:58:40 AM
::waving to Tupp::..

How's it going over the pond?

Lighter
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: JustKathy on February 14, 2018, 03:12:57 PM
I'm throwing in a wave as well! Happy Valentine's Day, Tup. Hope all is going well for you. (I'm sure I'd know that if I read through the thread, but I'm afraid it's gotten much too long at this point.)

Kathy
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on February 14, 2018, 10:49:04 PM
Me too. Big hugs to ya, Tupp.

Hope your break means you're busy, happy and doing Tuppness.

love,
Hops
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on February 15, 2018, 11:34:54 AM
Mike had a saying, that it was important to ask the RIGHT questions... and then PAY ATTENTION to the answers.

LOL, glad to help with the question part. And wow... what an answer you got! I hope you post some of your insights about that, as you go along. It's helpful for me too. My deal is trying to stop the reflex to be a chameleon... be what others want me to be in a situation, place, relationship etc.

I'm miles down the road of improving that but I still catch glimpses of it from time to time.

Just the being aware of it, will likely change your perspective a lot and as you say, practice and finding out "nothing bad happens" when you ARE "just Tupp"... will make it easier to integrate that; internalize it.

After all, we internalized all that abusive crap - pretty damn thoroughly. Why can't we try doing that with the genuine good stuff (for us) that lets us be more content and enjoying life?

I'm a bit behind on the board; I've been trying to do more living and less naval gazing (as one of my friends calls it) and trying to get out a bit more.  The board also seemed to get busy recently so I have been reading but not getting a chance to reply :)  But yes, outcomes!

I am trying to let go.  I think they are my safety net.  I think having other people involved opens up too many possibilities for damage so I have to lock everything down tight and make sure all avenues are sorted (and funnily enough, we went on a day trip with a friend this week; I let her organise everything, took her at her word that everything was done and didn't double check and it was a nightmare day because she hadn't sorted out all the things she said she had.  So sometimes it is better to plan and double check :) ).  But seriously, I am trying to just let it be what it is.  We went to visit friends last weekend.  Usually I take food with me because my son has a lot of food issues but they offered to cook so I let them and it was lovely.  We went by train and got on to a carriage full of football fans.  Initially I thought we should move - but I decided to wait and see what happened and they were really funny; all young lads, a lot of banter, jokes, impressions of sports personalities and so on.  A bit of swearing but funny rather than offensive and I was glad we sat where we did.  We caught the train back much later than I thought we would and again, it was fine, it was nice to spend the extra time with my friend.

I am getting triggered when dealing with the education stuff for my son.  They are doing such a terrible job and it makes me so angry.  But - I keep reminding myself I am playing a long game here and I need to focus on the eventual outcome and work out how best I can play my cards.  So I'm being polite, I'm asking questions, I'm giving only the information that I need to instead of laying everything out every time.  It's okay.

I have met with this guy twice now.  I enjoy his company a lot but he is very silent in between getting together (nothing physical so it's not a booty call!  Lol) and generally I'm suggesting meeting up.  I've thought about that a lot and again, it's outcomes - I have a notion in my mind of how 'courting' ought to be.  So I've let go of it - if I see him, I see him, if I don't, I don't.  I was nervous about him coming over last week so I concentrated on asking him lots of questions and finding out as much as I could about him.  That worked well, I felt more comfortable and I enjoyed what he talked about; he's very interesting and quick witted.  He has a very dry sense of humour and is good at accents so he really made me laugh and I don't met many men who I find funny in that way.  So I'm being very laid back and 'what will be, will be' about it.

We're slowly making progress on clearing out the flat.  I'm concentrating on cleaning and getting stuff we don't need out before clearing out the next cupboard (otherwise I just end up with everything I don't need in another cupboard and it sits there for months).  I'm resting a lot and spending time doing not much.  Again, trying to let go of the blueprint of how things ought to be now and just sitting it what they are instead.  It's okay.  Weird at times but I'm getting there :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on February 15, 2018, 11:38:44 AM
((((Tupp)))) - Remember the Marvellous Me wall you wanted me to create, or the notes you wanted me to tack all over the house? Here's yours!

I am intelligent, hard working, resilient, resourceful.  I'm loyal and loving and a very good friend.  I'm socially aware and respectful of other people's beliefs, religions, cultures and so on.  I'm very good with money.  I'm a good researcher.  I'm kind and caring.  I help people out without looking down at them or judging them for the situation they're in.  I've worked hard to put healthy boundaries in place, to make myself healthy emotionally and to stick to my sometimes lonely path rather than giving in and accepting the drink/unhealthy relationship/pretending things are fine when they aren't stance.  I'm a very good mum and, I think most importantly to me, I've kept my son safe all these years and now I have this amazingly happy, confident, friendly young man

Thanks for asking about B...I'll fill y'all in on the Heist thread. (If I don't fall asleep first. We're going on our getaway tomorrow and I've got to hit the hay early, awake waaaaaaay too late last night. So if I don't post tonight it'll likely be Monday.)

love,
Hops

Ha ha, Hops, wouldn't life be easier if we took our own advice as readily as we give it out!  It's so much harder to be positive about ourselves, don't you think?  But I am trying.  I'm a good egg.  I know that.  I think the ra ra ra of day to day living sometimes shuts it out but I'm trying to do yoga each day (the quiet and the breathing helps) and I'm listening to meditation stuff at night to calm my brain down.  I am proud of myself.  I'm getting better at accepting I've done a good job with pretty limited resources, really.  And getting better at understanding that the whole thing is a process.  I think I've always had an end point in mind?  Something to get to and then I'm done.  But I feel more now like I just want to see what happens and I do think I feel safer about letting other people in (new people, not the old lot!).  Thank you for reminding me of what I'd written :) I might need to tattoo it somewhere :)
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on February 15, 2018, 11:46:41 AM
So glad to see your posts before I go out of town, ((Tupp)).  There's a family birthday, and I'll be cooking for another family member..... the Plan stuff.  Gack.  I'm getting a bit tired of cooking huge vats of food, and having to deal with packaging, eating, freezing, keeping up with what's in the fridge, how old is THIS and how old is THAT?  Your new Buddha Bowl plan sounds so simple..... so accessible.   Something a busy mom, or college student could handle.  Anyone, really.

::nodding::

So, today I woke up after a very strange dream sequence.  My thoughts are.......
I'm very hooked into making things OK around me.  That makes me easily manipulated by others.  I'm not happy about that.... in fact, I'm a bit ticked that people DO that to other people, much less me all my life.  I don't like it in myself that it's been my MO.  I accept that I DID that TO myself, and I'm working on forgiving myself, accepting it, and feeling differently about it. 

I spent some time with those thoughts earlier this morning.

It feels very..... high.  I feel like I climbed up a big boulder.  I used to have the feeling I was teetering on a cliff's edge, wind howling and whipping my hair around my face so I couldn't see.  I distinctly remember feeling THAT.  Living on that edge emotionally.  This morning I felt like I was looking down on that, back on it, like I was finally above it.  I've never felt that before, though I've had a sense of release and my head clicking down into a more comfortable place on my spine.... this new feeling is sea change on how I relate to others and why.  Choosing not to be emotionally jerked around, by people seeking that response, is HUGE.  Such a relief.  I see choices I never knew I had before.  I sense making that change will be hard, and I'll be challenged over and over, but at least I have tools now.

I've heard it and practiced it in different ways through the last 25 years, but not in a way that really helped SEE in a way that made sense, and gave me hope, perhaps helped, but not in huge sweeping ways.  The mechanics of putting my hand over parts of my chest that FEEL heavy, sad, overwhelmed, anxious, and giving it non judgmental attention DOES.

I assume everyone hears and processes information differently.  We can receive a message 10 times, from different messengers, and then BAM..... one messenger gets one small piece of information through succinctly, making connections possible, IME.

For the most part, I get helpful information from many sage people on this board and in my life.  I'm very focused on incorporating them into my world, but my best thinking got me into my discomfort. I can;t think my way out of it, IME. I have to go out of my way to tap, or put my hand on my pain, and utilize tools from other people.  Just as I had to do when I recognized I couldn't edit my own home 15 years ago, I hired someone to take things out of my arms, and keep me looking to the next task.  Releasing shame, and accepting my brokeness/weaknesses is huge, ime.

Right now I'm curious if I can accept myself as I am, even if I can't learn another thing, or grow another emotional inch.... unconditionally, and completely.  I'm looking forward to trying.

::thinking of what I consider my negative qualities, and accepting them unconditionally::..

It seems counter intuitive, I know, but perhaps it will lead to less resistance in my life, and more joy.  That's the hope.

Lighter

Wow, yes, I can identify with that need to keep changing and trying to become perfect, maybe?  I think with me it's again to do with protecting myself in some way.  Maybe there's an element of that there for you as well?  I think we give ourselves a harder time than we need to.  And yes, making things okay around you, I do exactly the same and it's something I'm trying hard not to do anymore - not to fix, not to make everyone comfortable, not to swallow my tongue so I don't displease someone.  People do take advantage and it's easy to see why - how nice to be around someone that makes your life blissful without asking for anything back??!  So yes, more focus on us and less on others.  I'm glad it felt freeing for you, Lighter, and gave you a sense of looking back on something.  My very first T said that everyone needs a tool box of techniques they use to get them through difficult times and it was trial and error to find the combinations that work.  So I can see how something physical - tapping or putting your hands on your chest - can help in a way that talking or thinking might not.  I guess in the same way that sometimes a hug can say so much more than words.

And yes, the food!  The reason I never stick to eating plans is because I always get fed up of the constant thinking and prepping.  I am finding this buddha bowl idea easy; some of the recipes seem complicated but most are simple and easy to adapt so I'm having quite a few meals that are just left over bits from other meals.  The fridge looks quite tempting at the minute and I'm finding it easy to knock up something quick and healthy when I'm pushed for time.  I hope everything got done, though, and that you had a good time out of town :) xx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on February 15, 2018, 11:48:16 AM
I'm throwing in a wave as well! Happy Valentine's Day, Tup. Hope all is going well for you. (I'm sure I'd know that if I read through the thread, but I'm afraid it's gotten much too long at this point.)

Kathy

Lol, Kathy, it is such a long thread now, I can't remember a lot of it :)  Nice to see you, Valentine's Day was perfect - me, the cat and a bag of Maltesers :)  Lol, perfect evening in :) How are things with you? xxx
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Twoapenny on February 19, 2018, 08:58:46 AM
I'm feeling the lack of a mother very acutely at the moment, at a very deep, basic level, the way a baby would sense a lack of presence, I suspect, in a way that is only felt and can't be articulated.  I'm feeling very disconnected from the world and people in general at the moment and have very little (in fact, no!) desire to do anything about it.  It feels quite odd.  I suspect (hope) it is the start of a new phase as I often get these very intense feelings before I push through something and some big change comes about (and I hope it is a good change, not a bad one) but I do have this very strong and overwhelming feeling of not being attached to anyone or anything and not really having anything to anchor to at the moment.  Nothing to be done about it, I think, it just is what it is right now.
Title: Re: Relinquishing Control - Please will you help me? :)
Post by: Hopalong on February 19, 2018, 11:14:58 AM
I hear you, Tupp.
It's OT in a way but since becoming disenchanted with the "new" (5 years now) minister, I've also lost some feeling of connection to my church community, which has been a major major anchor/source of friendship/comfort/identity/community part of my life. I need to re-commit for my own sake to returning there regularly for the sake of community. I need it more than it needs me.